Stickballruss you talked about adding a color to the deck during Fuffly Wolf's match and commented that white was defensive but would not that be what we need? Protect our blood moons bridge and chalice? for example a boros charm guarantees 4 damage, indestructibility to our permanents and even a double blow to the rabblemaster. Destruction of enchantments such as leyline and halo runed are hard to play around.
The black is very aggressive but I at the moment I can only think of using the lilianas because of the ult of them kkk ...so how can we improve the deck to let more overpower? ... maybe the monored version is already overpower by itself.
R3: U Tron, 2-1. G1 I got stuck on two lands and he had answers for both my ritual into blood moon attempts. G2 and 3 sorcerous spyglass hit and stopped chromatic sphere when he had only tron lands out (tapped at the time, too, so he couldnt crack to draw even).
Nugs I'm pretty sure naming Sphere has no effect. I think that it is a mana ability, therefore Spyglass does nothing. If I'm wrong please correct me, but that was my understanding of that interaction.
Russ! SICK! Can't wait to watch the replay. Congrats man.... way past that chest goal now. So Eidolon's main? I'm sure you'll talk about in the stream
Stickballruss you talked about adding a color to the deck during Fuffly Wolf's match and commented that white was defensive but would not that be what we need? Protect our blood moons bridge and chalice? for example a boros charm guarantees 4 damage, indestructibility to our permanents and even a double blow to the rabblemaster. Destruction of enchantments such as leyline and halo runed are hard to play around.
The black is very aggressive but I at the moment I can only think of using the lilianas because of the ult of them kkk ...so how can we improve the deck to let more overpower? ... maybe the monored version is already overpower by itself.
I was thinking about lily since we have a real problem with tarmogoyf and we are usually empty handed by the 5th turn. tick up only hurts opponent and the sac a creature ability can be really useful. Given that i'm 10-0 in my last 2 online comp leagues (5-0 on stream last night, 5-0 off stream but commented on fluffy's stream earlier this week) I don't think i would change a thing right now. this meta is so ripe for this deck, it's unreal. Counterspeels have vanished, jund is in hibernation. If you're not dropping 4/4's on turn one, playing a bunch of spells with creatures attached to them(humans), or playing slippery dudes that can't be targeted which turn into 15/15 first strike, banding, life link, trample, rampage 2, then you're doing it wrong in modern right now....which is perfect because we beat all those decks. Event he praevalent combo decks like Amulet titan and cheerios are good for us. even storm is 50/50. I think KCI is really the only combo deck that we need to be afraid of.
R3: U Tron, 2-1. G1 I got stuck on two lands and he had answers for both my ritual into blood moon attempts. G2 and 3 sorcerous spyglass hit and stopped chromatic sphere when he had only tron lands out (tapped at the time, too, so he couldnt crack to draw even).
Nugs I'm pretty sure naming Sphere has no effect. I think that it is a mana ability, therefore Spyglass does nothing. If I'm wrong please correct me, but that was my understanding of that interaction.
Russ! SICK! Can't wait to watch the replay. Congrats man.... way past that chest goal now. So Eidolon's main? I'm sure you'll talk about in the stream
Two eidolon in the main. They haven't done anything. You would think drawing both of them game one vs KCI would have had some sort of effect, but nope. They naturally drew Explosives, and killed the eidolons, then killed me in the same turn. Funny because I was hesitant on keeping that opening hand and said that this hand a amazing vs. KCI. Well, it was KCI and I promptly died. If this deck continues to be popular, then we're going to want damping sphere, or even....dare I say....leyline of the void? I'm actually not a big fan of damping sphere. We already have lock pieces that do exactly what damping sphere wants to accomplish. But Leyline? That would be a HUGE investment of cards to take out in a deck like this. One shot graveyard removal won't do it here. We need to shut down. 4 abrade is not enough. Maybe we make some room and take out the cages for.....what? Tormods crypt is not good enough because one shots will not make this work. it just won't. The only card that can realistically deal with the graveyard that we can play in a mono red deck is the Leyline. Can anyone else give me a suggestion for how to deal with KCI? Damping matrix shuts off explosives, so that's also a thing, but spyglass does that too.
Anyway, been having a blast playing this lately....oh, and the creature domination vs. pyromancer was on full display last night. Rabblemaster was able to race lingering souls...three of them. that's 12 tokens we attacked through, but we got there.
Russ, I'm playing this Sunday for the first time in a while. Do you have an updated list? I don't own Glorybringer, but might be able to pick them up. Local meta includes Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Esper COntrol, Kiki-Jiki, Burn, elves, Zoo, Infect. Thanks.
Russ, I'm playing this Sunday for the first time in a while. Do you have an updated list? I don't own Glorybringer, but might be able to pick them up. Local meta includes Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Esper COntrol, Kiki-Jiki, Burn, elves, Zoo, Infect. Thanks.
I'm currently on the list that was posted on mtgo. Given that meta, I would stick wit that list. haven't been a fan of eidolon in the main, but you got control, control, and infect in that list, so it's going to be good for you. Also, it blocks an elf or a zoo dude. No glorybringer. that was for a jund/mardu heavy meta. actually, given that list of blue based decks, you might want to swap out the two molten rain I have in the board for a two boil. or a boil and a walking ballista. use your judgement, but I think the maindeck will be fine for what you are looking at.
I don't know if you guys have seen the Bomat Red list going around, but it's a red deck that runs on a different axis than both Pyro Prison and Burn. Some of the interesting cards it uses are Harsh Mentor, Molten Rain, Rampaging Ferocidon, and Dire Fleet Daredevil, along with some underused burn spells. I know not all these cards will fit the deck, but they seem interesting.
I just wanted to say thanks russ for the advice, it's a delayed post but I won modern on Tuesday night going 3-1. First round I played bant knightfall and won via an early blood moon. I sided out my chalices and all my creatures (except for the one of hazoret I run main) and brought in all my wraths and silver bullets like damping matrix and torpor orb and won 2-1. Next I played against temur moon which I lost to 2-1 although I had some horrible hands (didn't want to go to 5) and still nearly won except for him casting 2 huntmasters both games and just bouncing them up and down gaining life and pinging me for 4 a turn (he couldn't swing as I had bridges in all games). I played bant coco next and won 2-1 (once again siding out my chalices and playing the same strategy against bant knightfall) mostly won through damping matrix/blood moon/bridge and chandra for the win. Last I played jeskai control and won 2-1 mostly through just lots of pressure through rabblemasters, mutavault and chandra, oh and G3 I slowed him down a lot by naming scalding tarn with the spyglass.
Well firstly it must be that saturday was an aberration as the deck was back to performing well tue night.
Things I learnt, I have taken all magus's out and don't really miss them much. Mom and pop actually won me 2 rounds, firstly against bant knightfall when he cast a kor firewalker and I had 2 colorless thopter tokens to trade and protect chandra. I beat jeskai control after he (rather strangely allowed me to draw P&K after fatesealing me) I had a cage, spyglass and 2 thopters and he was at 4 life so I will def keep it now. I know a number of you weren't completely sold on koth but I don't think I have ever lost a games off a koth emblem and that continued tue night. Still not sure about eidolon MB, it seems like there are really only certain matchups I want them and also sometimes it backfires and stops me from casting spells.Lastly ray used to run magma jet and I took this from him and have been running 3 MB and I have found these are amazing( I really wish I could fit in abrades somewhere not sure what to take out unless a straight swap for magma jets), they allow me to take slightly riskier opening hands and also smooth out my draws and help my top decks later in the game, and sometimes the damage can actually be relevant.
Chalice is a huge loss, there are decks that just fold to chalice on a certain number. Also having a look at this list it just looks like a creature heavy bad burn list. I don't get the rampaging ferocidon in a list that runs 23 creatures. Also the burn spells that they're running just seem bad like burst lightning and incinerate.
Is silent gravestone viable enough outside of KCI to make it a sideboard worthy card?
Hmm....It turns off snapcast mage and torrential gearhulk, stops ooze from growing/gaining life, and, of course, completely stops ironworks. Is is better than cage?
Cage also tsops snaps, but that's not revelant since we don't bring in cage for snap decks. The main reason we run cage is to stop CoCo and Chord. Also hitting dredge and having game against hollow-one while also shutting off the back half of ancient grudge (in hollow-one becuase we don't side in cage vs other decks) is also a plus.
It's definitely worth a discussion. Did I missing anything here?
Also congrats to Russ on two 5-0 finishes in a week.
It is, however, unfortunate that this success is making pyro prison more of a known entity, hopefully not to its disadvantage.
Welcome Skirmbot! Please feels free to comment more often, especially if you pick up this deck and give it a try. All ideas are welcome and the more collaboration we have here, the faster we'll be to finding a "perfect" list....that is until the meta changes or a new set comes out!
I just wanted to say thanks russ for the advice, it's a delayed post but I won modern on Tuesday night going 3-1. First round I played bant knightfall and won via an early blood moon. I sided out my chalices and all my creatures (except for the one of hazoret I run main) and brought in all my wraths and silver bullets like damping matrix and torpor orb and won 2-1. Next I played against temur moon which I lost to 2-1 although I had some horrible hands (didn't want to go to 5) and still nearly won except for him casting 2 huntmasters both games and just bouncing them up and down gaining life and pinging me for 4 a turn (he couldn't swing as I had bridges in all games). I played bant coco next and won 2-1 (once again siding out my chalices and playing the same strategy against bant knightfall) mostly won through damping matrix/blood moon/bridge and chandra for the win. Last I played jeskai control and won 2-1 mostly through just lots of pressure through rabblemasters, mutavault and chandra, oh and G3 I slowed him down a lot by naming scalding tarn with the spyglass.
Well firstly it must be that saturday was an aberration as the deck was back to performing well tue night.
Things I learnt, I have taken all magus's out and don't really miss them much. Mom and pop actually won me 2 rounds, firstly against bant knightfall when he cast a kor firewalker and I had 2 colorless thopter tokens to trade and protect chandra. I beat jeskai control after he (rather strangely allowed me to draw P&K after fatesealing me) I had a cage, spyglass and 2 thopters and he was at 4 life so I will def keep it now. I know a number of you weren't completely sold on koth but I don't think I have ever lost a games off a koth emblem and that continued tue night. Still not sure about eidolon MB, it seems like there are really only certain matchups I want them and also sometimes it backfires and stops me from casting spells.Lastly ray used to run magma jet and I took this from him and have been running 3 MB and I have found these are amazing( I really wish I could fit in abrades somewhere not sure what to take out unless a straight swap for magma jets), they allow me to take slightly riskier opening hands and also smooth out my draws and help my top decks later in the game, and sometimes the damage can actually be relevant.
Nicely done on the 3-1 FNM! That's what I'm talking about. I happy the new strategy worked for you vs the green company decks. Funny, I bet you never thought to take out the chalices before.
On Magma jet, yes, vs those decks, magma jet is definitely better. Play a few rounds vs eldrazi tron, big tron, affinity, storm, or anything with aether vial then report back. Hell, play vs humans and see how fast their dudes get to three toughness while you stare at magma jet in your hand. Not to mention Hollow-one....My point is....don't let a small sample size fool you. Trust me, the first time you lose to a hollow-one while staring at magma jet or watch your opponent storm off with a boral while you are looking at magma jet in your hand, you'll understand. And I didn't even get to eldrazi displacer.....
Keep up the great work. If you want to get good with this deck, and I mean real good, you have to get on mtgo. crushing fnm is nice, but it's a limited number of games, in a small geographic area, vs the same people week after week. MTGO has players from all over the world playing all types of different decks. You'll learn a lot really fast by jamming some leagues and getting experience in all sorts of different situations. I know its expensive to get this deck twice (paper and online), but if you're serious (and it's cool if you're more of a casual player), then online is where you need to be.
Anyway, keep up the great work. Curious, what did you change in the board to make room for damping matrix? did you pull the molten rains and use boil/matrix like I suggested or did you do something else? Would love to know.
Has anybody run dire fleet daredevil I often feel like this deck needs another 1-2 low cmc threats and I have thought about running this card.
I've thought about this a lot when jund was popular. I like this card so much, I might even find a home for it in the main instead of eidolon. Problem it that it helps in completely different matches that eidolon, so I might put it to the board and play only three eidolon in the 75 like I used to.
Actually, the more I think about it while typing this response, the more I like it. going to have to test this in a few weeks.....wait, a few weeks? yep. God of War comes out today. probably won't be playing much magic for the next week or two. For those who have never played god of War, it's one of my favorite games of all time (right next to Resident Evil 4, Gears of War, and Final Fantasy). If you have played god of War, then you know what the excitement is all about.
The tweaks I'm going to likely roll with when I get some leagues in this weekend are the following:
Eidolons to SB. -1 Magus from SB. Move Haz from SB to MB. +1 Scavenger Grounds MB. I might trade a cage for a Relic. I want to keep PnK and give it another go. I respect the utility there. Change Mutavault for Buried Ruin. I'll have 5 non-red mana sources. I know risky.
If I were to go down PnK what would I go up? Molten Rain, that 6 CMC Chandra, another Haz or another Ballista. Maybe a Bonfire or a Spellskite in the main. I really like to add pressure with the deck.
The other way to go with it is it to keep the 2 Eidolons main. Go down a Slag and a PnK and go up 2 more Eidolons. Change the remaining Slag to Bonfire or Ballista.
I'm open to feedback and I'll keep the team posted with how the weekend smashing goes.
Dev, Why change something for the sake of changing something? Not saying that you shouldn't change things, but it feel like you are changing things for a reason I don't fully understand? as bad as Eidolon has been for me lately, I still think there's merit to keeping it in. I've played vs all creature decks and that the exact opposite of where its good. If I played vs a lot of tron and storm, I'd be singing a different tune about eidolon.
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The black is very aggressive but I at the moment I can only think of using the lilianas because of the ult of them kkk ...so how can we improve the deck to let more overpower? ... maybe the monored version is already overpower by itself.
Nugs I'm pretty sure naming Sphere has no effect. I think that it is a mana ability, therefore Spyglass does nothing. If I'm wrong please correct me, but that was my understanding of that interaction.
Russ! SICK! Can't wait to watch the replay. Congrats man.... way past that chest goal now. So Eidolon's main? I'm sure you'll talk about in the stream
I was thinking about lily since we have a real problem with tarmogoyf and we are usually empty handed by the 5th turn. tick up only hurts opponent and the sac a creature ability can be really useful. Given that i'm 10-0 in my last 2 online comp leagues (5-0 on stream last night, 5-0 off stream but commented on fluffy's stream earlier this week) I don't think i would change a thing right now. this meta is so ripe for this deck, it's unreal. Counterspeels have vanished, jund is in hibernation. If you're not dropping 4/4's on turn one, playing a bunch of spells with creatures attached to them(humans), or playing slippery dudes that can't be targeted which turn into 15/15 first strike, banding, life link, trample, rampage 2, then you're doing it wrong in modern right now....which is perfect because we beat all those decks. Event he praevalent combo decks like Amulet titan and cheerios are good for us. even storm is 50/50. I think KCI is really the only combo deck that we need to be afraid of.
Two eidolon in the main. They haven't done anything. You would think drawing both of them game one vs KCI would have had some sort of effect, but nope. They naturally drew Explosives, and killed the eidolons, then killed me in the same turn. Funny because I was hesitant on keeping that opening hand and said that this hand a amazing vs. KCI. Well, it was KCI and I promptly died. If this deck continues to be popular, then we're going to want damping sphere, or even....dare I say....leyline of the void? I'm actually not a big fan of damping sphere. We already have lock pieces that do exactly what damping sphere wants to accomplish. But Leyline? That would be a HUGE investment of cards to take out in a deck like this. One shot graveyard removal won't do it here. We need to shut down. 4 abrade is not enough. Maybe we make some room and take out the cages for.....what? Tormods crypt is not good enough because one shots will not make this work. it just won't. The only card that can realistically deal with the graveyard that we can play in a mono red deck is the Leyline. Can anyone else give me a suggestion for how to deal with KCI? Damping matrix shuts off explosives, so that's also a thing, but spyglass does that too.
Anyway, been having a blast playing this lately....oh, and the creature domination vs. pyromancer was on full display last night. Rabblemaster was able to race lingering souls...three of them. that's 12 tokens we attacked through, but we got there.
I'm currently on the list that was posted on mtgo. Given that meta, I would stick wit that list. haven't been a fan of eidolon in the main, but you got control, control, and infect in that list, so it's going to be good for you. Also, it blocks an elf or a zoo dude. No glorybringer. that was for a jund/mardu heavy meta. actually, given that list of blue based decks, you might want to swap out the two molten rain I have in the board for a two boil. or a boil and a walking ballista. use your judgement, but I think the maindeck will be fine for what you are looking at.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1024203#paper
On that note, have you guys thought about adding Rift Bolt, since it doesn't conflict with Chalice and it could add some more reach.
Well firstly it must be that saturday was an aberration as the deck was back to performing well tue night.
Things I learnt, I have taken all magus's out and don't really miss them much. Mom and pop actually won me 2 rounds, firstly against bant knightfall when he cast a kor firewalker and I had 2 colorless thopter tokens to trade and protect chandra. I beat jeskai control after he (rather strangely allowed me to draw P&K after fatesealing me) I had a cage, spyglass and 2 thopters and he was at 4 life so I will def keep it now. I know a number of you weren't completely sold on koth but I don't think I have ever lost a games off a koth emblem and that continued tue night. Still not sure about eidolon MB, it seems like there are really only certain matchups I want them and also sometimes it backfires and stops me from casting spells.Lastly ray used to run magma jet and I took this from him and have been running 3 MB and I have found these are amazing( I really wish I could fit in abrades somewhere not sure what to take out unless a straight swap for magma jets), they allow me to take slightly riskier opening hands and also smooth out my draws and help my top decks later in the game, and sometimes the damage can actually be relevant.
Also congrats to Russ on two 5-0 finishes in a week.
It is, however, unfortunate that this success is making pyro prison more of a known entity, hopefully not to its disadvantage.
Hmm....It turns off snapcast mage and torrential gearhulk, stops ooze from growing/gaining life, and, of course, completely stops ironworks. Is is better than cage?
Cage also tsops snaps, but that's not revelant since we don't bring in cage for snap decks. The main reason we run cage is to stop CoCo and Chord. Also hitting dredge and having game against hollow-one while also shutting off the back half of ancient grudge (in hollow-one becuase we don't side in cage vs other decks) is also a plus.
It's definitely worth a discussion. Did I missing anything here?
Welcome Skirmbot! Please feels free to comment more often, especially if you pick up this deck and give it a try. All ideas are welcome and the more collaboration we have here, the faster we'll be to finding a "perfect" list....that is until the meta changes or a new set comes out!
Nicely done on the 3-1 FNM! That's what I'm talking about. I happy the new strategy worked for you vs the green company decks. Funny, I bet you never thought to take out the chalices before.
On Magma jet, yes, vs those decks, magma jet is definitely better. Play a few rounds vs eldrazi tron, big tron, affinity, storm, or anything with aether vial then report back. Hell, play vs humans and see how fast their dudes get to three toughness while you stare at magma jet in your hand. Not to mention Hollow-one....My point is....don't let a small sample size fool you. Trust me, the first time you lose to a hollow-one while staring at magma jet or watch your opponent storm off with a boral while you are looking at magma jet in your hand, you'll understand. And I didn't even get to eldrazi displacer.....
Keep up the great work. If you want to get good with this deck, and I mean real good, you have to get on mtgo. crushing fnm is nice, but it's a limited number of games, in a small geographic area, vs the same people week after week. MTGO has players from all over the world playing all types of different decks. You'll learn a lot really fast by jamming some leagues and getting experience in all sorts of different situations. I know its expensive to get this deck twice (paper and online), but if you're serious (and it's cool if you're more of a casual player), then online is where you need to be.
Anyway, keep up the great work. Curious, what did you change in the board to make room for damping matrix? did you pull the molten rains and use boil/matrix like I suggested or did you do something else? Would love to know.
I've thought about this a lot when jund was popular. I like this card so much, I might even find a home for it in the main instead of eidolon. Problem it that it helps in completely different matches that eidolon, so I might put it to the board and play only three eidolon in the 75 like I used to.
Actually, the more I think about it while typing this response, the more I like it. going to have to test this in a few weeks.....wait, a few weeks? yep. God of War comes out today. probably won't be playing much magic for the next week or two. For those who have never played god of War, it's one of my favorite games of all time (right next to Resident Evil 4, Gears of War, and Final Fantasy). If you have played god of War, then you know what the excitement is all about.
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
Accelerators -9
1 Pyretic Ritual
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Lands -21
18 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mutavault
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
Troops -8
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Eidolon of the great Revel
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Walking Ballista
Removal -5
3 Abrade
2 Slagstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Abrade
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Molten Rain
1 Magus of the Moon
The tweaks I'm going to likely roll with when I get some leagues in this weekend are the following:
Eidolons to SB. -1 Magus from SB. Move Haz from SB to MB. +1 Scavenger Grounds MB. I might trade a cage for a Relic. I want to keep PnK and give it another go. I respect the utility there. Change Mutavault for Buried Ruin. I'll have 5 non-red mana sources. I know risky.
If I were to go down PnK what would I go up? Molten Rain, that 6 CMC Chandra, another Haz or another Ballista. Maybe a Bonfire or a Spellskite in the main. I really like to add pressure with the deck.
The other way to go with it is it to keep the 2 Eidolons main. Go down a Slag and a PnK and go up 2 more Eidolons. Change the remaining Slag to Bonfire or Ballista.
I'm open to feedback and I'll keep the team posted with how the weekend smashing goes.