Don't doubt the power of Koth of the Hammer. I recently won an LGS game 2-0 against BURN with a critical Koth play in game 2. The opponent was at (8) life with no blockers, and I had a single Koth with [4] loyalty counters alongside [4] mountains in play - that's it.
So, I Koth - mana trick float. Mint up a 4/4 Montana. Then, I cast a 2nd Koth, and do the exact same. I attack for (8) to seal the win. The dude was rocking up a Shrine of Burning Rage which was going to get ugly. I'm counting on exactly two things for the save: Witchbane Orb or an accelerated threat. Luckily, the hammer uppercuts came through in time. Slightest and Smallest of Sidenote: this is exactly why I do not believe R/W Palemoon exceeds our power-level. "Turtle-Down" answer cards do not win a game - Damage wins a game.
While I respect Caligula's thought about going deep on Hazoret the Fervent, I take pause. I turn again to my molten rock-fiend liege. Koth of the Hammer can hit for (4) upon casting irregardless of handsize. And, he can hit a 2nd time, and then go into mountain-ping mode for the 3rd turn-after-casting: ultimate emblem. Ping mode is absolutely devastating against creature decks, whereas Hazoret 2-player-damage effects are not game altering. We aren't generally a quick clock deck (although, we can be) - we don't care how many turns it takes to win. Exceptions Apply.
Finally, it's questionable to say that Koth is anemic behind an ensnaring bridge, and at the same time Hazoret the Fervent is somehow a more well-rounded threat. More and more, I realize that the Koth ultimate will pull the rug out from under an opponent's creature-based win condition.
Aaaaand, final note: have I mentioned that I've seen the large-scale, original painting of Koth of the Hammer [the same hyperlinked art] in a museum in Seattle, Washington - home of Wizards of the Coast. Well, I did. And, it was...spiritual.
Guys, any tips how the hell do you fight White Hatebears? I mean Moon is dead, early Chalice 1 doesn't bother them that much, Angers are being nullified by Selfless Spirit or Forge Tender, Flickerwips bounce your Chalices and Bridges, Rabblemaster and Hazoret get PTE'd, wtf? And it seems that the answers we could have, would only answer some parts of this deck therefore not easy to choose one - Damping Matrix will stop BFT and Selfless Spirit, Torpor Orb will stop Resto Angel, Splicer and Flickerwisp, Sulfur Elemental will stop Thalia, Spirit and BFT. Makes me want to put some Bolts in SB and keep swapping them with Chalices in this matchup.
Well I'm no expert on the matchup as I've only met it once, but then again I AM undefeated at 1-0! The key for me was Damping Matrix, keeping them open for sweeps and keeping the creature count low, that way when they flick their wisp at our bridge it's for minimal damage. Thalia is a ***** though.
Fun synergy; against Eldrazi & Taxes, my bridge got exiled by Wisp, then put into my graveyard by Wasteland Strangler.. it was fun.
Regarding White Hate Bears: They are an 'answer deck' as well, but luckily white creatures don't generally come out as fast and with as much Power (# to the left of the /) as other colors' critters.
I bring in 2 sweepers to up my count to 4. Also: ratchet bomb. Torpor Orb is steadily rising in effectiveness in this meta. And, I'm pleased to keep a spellskite in the sideboard as well. The matchup, when winning, usually ends when they scoop while looking at either 2 bridges or a bridge and a spellskite or a bridge and a torpor orb.
If this matchup presents increasing problems, then I'd look at Pyroclasm as a 5th sweeper. In matchups where we want to keep in our creature threats (this isn't one of them - take out all but Pia and Kiran Nalaar), Arc Trail presents a unique 1-sided sweeper option.
FNM 9/29 Report
Local FNM has a certain variety of decks, so it is good to play into at times to see if your sideboard is ready for just about any matchups. We went 4 rounds, below is the decks I played against and how they went.
R1: Bant Spirits
G1: My opponent is on the spirit plan, with a Maelstrom Wanderer. He counters my Chandra with a Spell Queller, which I've used as bait for an in hand Sweltering Suns. He floods the board attempting to beat me down in a two-turn clock, I swelter and proceed to Chandra and blood moon for the win.
G2: My opponent has obviously picked up on the basic plan, and has all but a temple garden for his colors. He begins beating down with Spirit Lords. He lands a Gideon and has me lethal on board. A top deck Ensnaring bridge stops Gideon, and a few draws later a Koth into emblem seals the deal. Both games go quick.
Sideboarding against Bant Spirits
+2 Magus of the Moon
-2 Faithless Looting
R2: Titan Shift
My opponent knows I run the most intriguing decks, but also knows I tend to play them at a high caliber (I've taken RallyFenza, Green Devotion, and Free Win Red to 5-0 wins before, RallyFenza also top 8ing an IQ of 50 people). So we banter back and forth and begin our matches.
G1: I attempted to sucker out another mountain from a Sakura-Tribe Elder, but my opponent seeing basic mountain plays correctly into fetching an additional forest. My initial turn one was a Faithless Looting so I was hoping to perhaps not give it away immediately. No matter, a blood moon followed by Chandra spelled a quick fate for my opponent, and a Chalice on 0 sealed the deal.
G2: Post sideboard this matchup gets difficult, as we want to keep Ensnaring Bridge in for titans, blood moons to prevent Scapeshift and are trying to get more hate cards in, but we don't have as many as we truly want. Spellskite is a horrible card in this matchup now as they are not going for exact but rather large quantities of damage. Game two turns into a Rabblemaster and slow draw that eventually gets shot down and then a Scapeshift for lethal.
G3: Game 3 follows a similar suit, however, he manages to get rid of my Witchbane Orb and Scapeshift on one turn with a prismatic omen out. The match feels like it is a difficult one, perhaps one we want to dodge.
Sideboarding against Titan Shift
+2 Magus of the Moon
+1 Witchbane Orb
+2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
-1 Faithless Looting
-4 Chalice of the Void (Maybe this was wrong, didn't feel like it though)
R3: 8-Whack
G1: Remember never to provide information to your opponent before the game begins if you can help it. My opponent mulls to 6 but flashes 4 bolts in hand with no lands. My turn one faithless looting was a quick pitch for blood moon as I worked to find the pieces I needed. I soon found out this was not burn but rather a bunch of goblins. We do eventually sweep the board with a sweltering sun with a top deck of a hazoret. We are 1 life, they are at 17. We opt not to swing to avoid hasty goblins which will kill us. Our opponent ends up topdecking a goblin piledriver into 4 lands. 4 Turns with shocks to the face bring our opponent to 5 life, and we then lose when they have enough. We are left wondering would it have been better to swing with hazoret and leaving ourselves open to many more spells?
G2: At this point it is clear, we must get a bridge down, we are not as worried about them going for our face. In game two we land a bridge quickly, and our opponent plays a Krenko. We'll just say that we do take them down with a Chandra, and hold back the final count of 444 goblins. Thank you bridge.
G3: Game three starts out with a very fast turn 1 chalice on 1. We have decided that we will try and hide behind this while we search for bridge. That being said our opponent draws 2 CMC and 3 CMC goblin creating spells which have us sweating. Our hand at this point is actually filling, Hazoret, Koth, Chandra, and we are on 1 Gemstone Cavern and 2 mountains. Our bridge that is out is not protecting us. We finally draw another mountain and are able to play hazoret is our play, to block a rather large goblin rabblemaster. This buys us another turn at 3 life, where we top deck another mountain, play Koth, minus Koth, play Chandra, and needed the final 2 mana to get rid of one other card. We are empty-handed, 1 Chandra, 1 Koth, 1 Hazoret, 1 Bridge, and Chalice on 1. We end up drawing another chalice and another bridge for redundancy. At this point, Hazoret is excellent as we do not want to drop any of our creatures in fear of searing blaze. Opponent dies and flashes 2 searing blazes in hand.
R4: Affinity
G1: We are aware of each other in the matchup, however, my affinity opponent has a poor 7 and must go to 6. This results in a slower hand from affinity, and we eventually Bridge stabilize at 10 and get a Koth out. Koth, however, plays a more critical role than initially thought he would. We do get to ultimate him, but our first objective is to ping down ornithopters which are presenting lethal with cranial plating. After which our opponent cannot top deck fast enough and we kill with Koth Emblem.
G2: Our opponent keeps a rather slow hand, but a powerful hand at that. The starting hand contained 2 bridges and a blood moon, along with 2 lands and Chandra. The game results in 3 bridges being played and a backup spellskite. He manages to kill 2 bridges and spellskite, and cannot find enough for the final bridge. While having the bridges out we play Chandra to kill a played signal pest. The game was a back and forth of threatening plating moves from Inkmoth Nexus to the Signal pest, and we drew just right to deal with each threat before locking down the board for good. We win off the back of Chandra + Emblem.
Sideboarding against Afinity
+2 Abrade
+2 Spellskite
+1 By Force
+1 Damping Matrix
-4 Chalice of the Void
-2 Faithless Looting
Final Results:
R1: Win (2-0)
R2: Loss (1-2)
R3: Win (2-1)
R4: Win (2-0)
7 - 3 :: Finishing 3rd
Observations:
Bridge is what it is, a house, a stopper, and demands an answer.
Hazoret the Fervent is a rather remarkable card, and though it does not really work best with a bridge it enables our bridge and turns on a relatively fast clock.
Chandra & Koth - Are the Allstars, and are going to be hard to beat and replace
Chalice on 0 with Chandra Emblem, is a thing.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar - Although not mentioned, did play an important role in 8-Whack and Affinity, not living for long in either but 'time walking' our opponent. We actually had one of the Affinity players spells target spellskite, and then sac'd spellskite to pia to do damage. This felt like some decent value for protecting and proactively continuing our plan.
Edits with Sideboards (Should be close to what I did).
Sideboarding against Titan Shift
-4 Chalice of the Void (Maybe this was wrong, didn't feel like it though)
In my opinion - brave but understandable decision. Chalice at 1 doesn't bother them, it would have to be set on 2 and t1/t2 latest to stop Sakuras, Farseeks etc. I always try to replace Chalices against the decks who a) don't care about it at 1 counter b) play Chalices
how significant were = Eidolons and Lootings.??
You realize that from third match you started to sound like Gollum?
Over the past few months, I've taken notes on every match I've played, through various builds, some of them very experimental. While my overall W/L record isn't reflective of our actual stats, I thought it could be useful to illustrate our place in the current overall meta by ranking some of our best and most challenging matchups.
Uphill Climbs: +/- 25%
U-Tron
Bonus: Dorian, the Siege Tower. Impossible matchup. Luckily it's super obscure.
In these (luckily sparse) matchups, it's hard to imagine us winning more than 1 out of 4 matches.. even with a turn 1 Moon, U-Tron just has too many answers. The Dorian deck is very fringe but a nightmare for us, we literally have nothing for them.
Coin Tosses: +/- 50%
Affinity
Knightfall
Counters Company
Death and Taxes
Storm
Grixis Death's Shadow
GB Midrange
UW Control
RW Prison
Abzan
Jund
Grishoalbrand
UR Breach
KCI Combo
3 Color Control
Ad Nauseum
8-Whack
These matchups fall in the 4-6 wins out of 10 range. While they can give us trouble, we have the tools to handle them with the right draw, and we have ways to absolutely hose most of them, at least post-side. While their best draws can give us trouble, a nut draw on our side usually spells a win.
Favored: +/- 70%
Merfolk
Elves
Burn
Delver
Zoo
GW Company
Tron
Eldrazi Tron
Eldrazi and Taxes
Titan Shift
Jund Death's Shadow
Esper Death's Shadow
Dredge
Living End
These are the matchups we hope for. Every time I see a top 8 littered with these names I know we missed a golden opportunity. These fall into the 7-8 wins out of 10 range, as our lock suite is exceptional against them while their answers are few, or at least manageable post-side. Most have no chance against many of our best draws.
Snoozefests: +/- 95%
8-Rack
Lantern Control
Skred
Infect
Bogles
And now we have the nom-noms.. the matchups we drool over. We are heavy favorites here, most times even against their best draws. I would put these in the 9-10 out of 10 range. If you happen to lose a match to these guys, the story surely has something to do with lands, either too many or too few.
Of course these are my own observations, you guys might have different opinions about some of these, and if so, let me know. Possible miscalculations aside, the message is clear; we are in a GREAT spot right now.
Well, I suppose everybody has a different list hence different experience with playing against those decks. I have to disagree with any mono colored or Vial based decks being a favoured matchup but this is just me playing 4Moons and 2 Maguses main. On the other hand I never found Ad Nauseam or Storm matchup that hard - we just have to many stones to throw under their wheels but again this is just me playing 3 maindeck Abrades and 6 Moon effects.
Oh and I never played against 8Rack but I guess this has to be an unpleasant experience.
Storm is tough without instant removal, and we aren't exactly flush with it. I really hate that deck! Elves with Shaman of the Pack has beaten me twice, but I've played Elves a total of 11 times.. Bridge is an auto scoop in G1, then we bring in sweepers. Merfolk is a similar situation, although I've only played 3 matches against them (3-0), I feel like we're definitely the favorite there. And 8-Rack.. mmm that's fun. I challenge you to play a match against them and NOT hear about how Chalice should be banned. Once it (or Witchbane Orb) hits the table it's an auto-scoop. We're way ahead against anything mono-black that cares about our artifacts!
Sideboarding against Titan Shift
-4 Chalice of the Void (Maybe this was wrong, didn't feel like it though)
In my opinion - brave but understandable decision. Chalice at 1 doesn't bother them, it would have to be set on 2 and t1/t2 latest to stop Sakuras, Farseeks etc. I always try to replace Chalices against the decks who a) don't care about it at 1 counter b) play Chalices
how significant were = Eidolons and Lootings.??
You realize that from third match you started to sound like Gollum?
My written dialogue sometimes does tend towards Gollum, or other characters, I did the shift in speech a lot in school when I found out an English teacher loved it.
Brave, perhaps, although I play Titan Shift some (Prefer RUG/BTL Scapeshift) and know that Chalice on 2 is really the only thing we would care to do, which by then we're likely behind if we're trying to chalice on 2. A lot of lists run x2-x3 Summoner's Pact, which a Chalice on 0 would be good, but now we're just blocking 2 cards versus ramp, and if we're blocking ramp on turn even 2 or so, we're not blocking Search for Tomorrow and the Elf, along with the decks normally have 26 - 27 lands, the inevitable 6 lands Omen, or 7-8 lands scapeshift/honor/primetime felt that chalice was just going to be too slow (ironically) in our deck.
@PaleGloveSyndrome - I'd actually like this person to weigh in on the Eidolons. I got 1 down the whole time and actually am not sure I'd ever want to bring them in again. In fact, I'd like to ask the Pyros here, what are 2 other cards that would work better in our plan?
Faithless Looting was absolutely fine. I never flashbacked the lootings that I did cast, as I never really wanted to draw and discard with the risk of keeping something in hand. Albeit if I needed to dig it is nice. Knowing what stage we are in the game (first 2 - 4 turns) we like our redundant hate cards, and chalice can be plucked onto all sorts of different costs. The only cards we are wanting to really loot away is our rituals late game, and we may be paying 3 (I believe for looting flashback) to risk then getting our 4 drops, and turning on any 1/X creatures (which can be just the right amount sometimes).
One thing to consider regarding Chalice and Titan Shift; yes, it is a bit anemic against the main deck, however, clearly we want and need a Moon in this matchup, and their answer is Ancient Grudge, sometimes Nature's Claim, and Lightning Bolt for Magus.. this is where Chalice becomes important. Remember to think about your opponent's answers when deciding whether to take it out or not.
After about a year of gathering pieces, I finally finished my build of Pyro Prison. It's just the stock list from Raystack, and I'm super hyped to have it. I work at my LGS, so I usually work running FNM, but I traded some shifts to play Modern for the first time in about as long as it took me to build the deck. Here's my report:
Round 1 - JundBears
This was my friend's Jund brew he threw together a few hours before. We were actually testing right before FNM started, and it got shut down hard by each piece of the lock suite. "Hopefully we won't have to play" he said. I half laughed half cried when pairings went up.
Game 1: He went first, and knew to fetch for a basic right away. My turn, Turn 1 Blood Moon. Sad thing about Jund, it needs 3 different basics. He never came back.
Game 2: He got 2 basics this time, and kept digging for his abrupt decays for my bridges. Couldn't get them before chandra ult.
1-0
Round 2 - Storm
Game 1: He goes first. Turn 1 Rabblemaster, Turn 2 Rabblemaster, he Storms off turn 3.
Game 2: I go first. SSG Ritual Ritual Chalice on 2, he scoops.
Game 3: Keep a sketchy hand, no chalice but a Grafdigger's Cage. Figured it'd be fine. He ran through a ton of Gifts and cantrips, but couldn't go off. Didn't get a chalice that game, but he spent so long unable to combo, that chandra finished him.
2-0
Round 3 - 8-Whack
Game 1: He comes out the gate swinging with Goblin Guides and Bushwhackers. I power out my own Rabblemasters to try to make blockers, but with no removal or bridge in hand he outraces me.
Game 2: Chalice on 1 on turn 2, then a Hazoret on turn 4. He dies in a few swings after chumping.
Game 3: Chalices on 1 and 2, then a bridge. He cast one thing all game I think. Game took a while for me to find anything to kill him with, but Chandra on turn 7~ish got me there.
3-0
First place in my first FNM of the year felt good. Got a Fatal Push and 4 packs (free tournament, so pretty good).
Attached is my progress on foiling the deck. That'll take me another good few years.
Well I'm sad to say I am giving up on this deck...for now. If I didn't have the whole thing foiled out and materpieced I would sell it off, but it is just too pretty. Here is the thing. I play daily on MTGO. I think I've had 30 days under my belt with a minimum three games a day - minimum. Yes, I play a lot. And just today I lost to a snake deck on MTGO. lol It doesn't get any more embarrassing than that. A deck that costs a small fortune lost to a pile a junk.
The deck is strong in disruption, but to my surprise there were a lot of decks that just didn't care about Void, Bridge, or Moon. And even with the lock, I noticed closing was an issue. And because of that, the inability to close in a reasonable time allows them to dig or patiently wait for that yugioh like heart of the cards to slip past the lock and win. Though, I give the deck a 10/10 for looking cool while winning when it did via Chandra, Koth, Hazoret, Pia, and Rabble, Goblin Assault, but their is no single one consistent hard closer.
And on a small rant, I died so many times while Bridge was up just because I could not empty my hand brimming with three costing cards. At that point I might as well play three costing sweepers and just pass on Bridge.
As for me? I think I'm going to shore up my Robots and Gobots deck for the up coming GP in December. And, maybe after a month from now I'll begin work on a mono black control torment of hailfire deck - we will see.
Catch yawl later when there are stronger and more consistent closer(s).
I recently went 2-2 at my latest Thursday Modern Night with the same list as last time. I realized it didn't take long for my entire meta to adapt to me.
On average each player now has 2/3 card SPECIFICALLY for pyro prison. If that's not ******* ridiculous I don't know what is.
I learned many things while playing against decks made to stop us.
1. Bridge is fragile. We need to be a deck that doesn't rely on it as heavily.
2. Birds and Nobles are a major problem for us. I'm tired of seeing them. Maybe my meta is creature heavy so take this with a grain of salt.
3. Tier 1 decks are not the issue. We don't struggle against the best, we struggle against the middle of the road tier 2 decks.
To compensate for the hate, I shifted my deck into a new direction...
So why this new direction without Koth? To put it simply, Koth is a great way to win behind bridge, or even close the game on an empty board, but otherwise he's a really bad card. Hear me out as I can already feel Ray judging me... If we are in anyway behind would you rather see Koth or Hazoret? For me its Haz every-time. She's a pain in the ass for non-white decks. If we are top decking into an empty board, would you rather see Koth or Hazoret? For me its again Hazoret, because she guarantees we end the game without a random burn or coco making dudes to kill Koth. Behind a bridge, she's worse over time, but she empties our hand and gives us insurance if bridge dies.
Chandra, Pyromaster - Well for sure we get to run promo black versions sooooooooo there's that. In all seriousness though, she is the best way to kill mana dorks, tokens and remove blockers without wasting a removal. The fact that she increases as shes gunning down lingering souls or nobles is relevant. She also digs deeper into the deck than tormenting voice, faithless looting or even other Chandra as she can hit lands. The question becomes how do we make her ult relevant again?
Changing how we think of utility spells is the key. Let's not rely on bridge so heavily, which means a shift to more burn. Magma jet gets a lot of hate on this thread for no reason. 2 damage in this meta is always a good thing, even against control and storm. The scry 2 is so valuable, I've seen people path my jet target. Sweltering Suns very rarely gets cycled for me, so let's just turn them back into slagstorms like this thread originally proposed. It does the same effect, but can also go face when we have rabbles pushing through. Yes it deals us damage, but if we are low on life, I doubt we are throwing it at faces anyway. Chandra now has two major targets to hit when she ults. 6 damage and 9 damage are not unimportant numbers with this deck, and scry 2 x3 is also awesome. Most times Chandra will not need to ult as her other two abilities are good, but just in case we want to close, we have the option.
On another note let's take about the white splash once more because our lock was recently featured in a big tourney:
I'm not saying we should snap add white, but its relevant to note side-boarding and threat amounts.
I agree with those saying Eidolon is good, because it is. I am thinking of jumping to 3 after I saw a turn 1 Eidolon hose 8-wack.
Our sideboard needs to become highly meta-focused as it needs to combat local tier 2 decks trying to beat us. The tier 1 decks are already beaten by the lock. We need to make each sideboard decision based on the decks we lose to each week. This is why I will not longer be posting set side-board lists.
Again, take all of this with a grain of salt. I am re-positioning the deck to fight a meta of 8-wack, Infect, Affinity, Green-White Value, Ponza, Eldrazi Tron and bant Eldrazi. I'm tired of relying solely on bridge to beat all of those creatures. Let me know what you think.
PS. don't be discouraged by small event results, I truly believe our deck does best when the entire meta isn't inbred to beat us. Take this to a PPTQ and spike it.
PaleGlove--- glad to see your post, about a week ago I shifted my build to a 60 that more closely resembles yours and for all those same reasons, I'm glad someone else is getting in enough reps to come to similar conclusions. Only difference in our solutions are the Slagstorms, I have been rocking 4 Anger of the Gods md and I haven't looked back. It can hurt the Rabble plan but wiping the board of Dredge and Coco decks is the determining factor for me.
You said something that needed to be said though, the sb is always going to be changing to reflect the local meta as everyone's is different. That being said I feel like there are "better" options to lean towards such as Eidolon, Orb, Grid, Shattering Spree, Cage and Matrix that are key in shutting specific popular decks out that shouldn't be left at home.
That all being said, I have relegated Pyro Prison to the back burner this last week or so. I have been rocking a brew on Blue Eldrazi Tron to an insane amount of success and I am having a lot of fun utilizing my Tron lands. I will still keep up with the thread and probably get a few games in a week with it but I'm advocating Blue Eldrazi as the most underrated deck.
Although opponents will tackle our Koth win, Chandra, Hazoret, and our Creatures can certainly do plenty as alternate win cons.
The sequencing of the deck is critical, and knowing when to go in versus when a turn 3 blood moon is fine with a turn 2 creature or other option.
My observations and some data for people to chew on. Churned these out in about 3 days. (Yep I grind, yes I attempt to optimize a deck, nope I'm not satisfied yet, and will begin playing with new sideboard cards about now, any suggestions?)
Edit: Of note MVP from sideboard has been Spellskite actually and 1 Anger one game. Abrade has killed artifacts but I've been behind (along with Shattering spree). Damping Matrix has taken more counters then I liked, but likely has opened up the door for bridge or moon.
It's getting goddamned scholarly in this thread -- Some fascinating reports/calculations/spreadsheets
QUESTION: Is Mtgsalvation offering elective credit for studying the evolving landscape of Pyro Prison in today's meta? Reading down the intense analysis on page 24 of our thread, it seems like they should. If we were to class it up, I anticipate some heated action in afterschool debate club on:
For as much as there is agreement/disagreement on the value of these cards, it's even more heartening to see the players actively 'sideboarding' their 75 in response. For me, I am down on Abrade & Faithless Looting -- but, that's cool, because those (2) cards can easily take home wins under the right circumstances. Pyro Prison is a sliding scale of probability deck with few right/wrong answers.
But, I will name one. By Force. It's shown up in several lists here, and I'm dumbfounded. It is categorically worse in every single way than Shattering Spree. It must be a budgetary decision....right? Artwork preference? Or, is it a deliberate and extraordinarily effective scheme to get my blood boiling? Good Koth Almighty! What foolishness is this?!
Caligula did a helluva job breaking down the matchup percentages of how shart is going down out there on the battlefield. Impressive. I could disagree a little here and there, but that would be nitpicking. I mean, it's not like he's out there slinging around By Force plays in tournament play. I'd say we're a little better positioned than his claims on D'n'T, GDS, Ad Nauseam, and Storm (although their addition of Baral/Gifts play has enhanced their win strategies). Doran, the Siege Tower and U-Tron decks are our demise, eh? Well, if it has to be so. Bottom line: His conclusion is that we are phenomenally situated in today's meta!!!
A li'l measure of proof: LindonMichael, judge of his local LGS, takes down a win at his first FNM with Pyro Prison. Another log on the fire for the champ!
@Paleglovesyndrome: So, we're trying more of this "Big Red" approach with your decklist on post # 592. Although you write, "I can already feel Ray judging me,..." Hardly. I like what you're trying. A few bullets on it:
It curves a little high for an ensnaring bridge deck
Accordingly, you've adjusted the removal suite - wise: 4 Magma Jet & 3 Slagstorm
Chandra, Pyromaster is a novel throwback - I love the idea of the ultimate - but, she's so blah as a board impact
Slagstorm is back. Fascinating. Which is better today vs. Sweltering Suns: Cycling or throwing (3) damage at opponent's face/planeswalker? IDK
@FluffyWolf: Another data-hound with an excel spreadsheet to offer us. Pretty soon, we'll have a syllabus at the ready for Spring classes. One critique is obviously the misnomer on the title. We ain't Free Win Red. That's a creatureless, basic land creation. Celebrate your diversity, now, buddy. I agree on your appreciation of Spellskite. To answer Amok, I think it's invaluable in Burn, GDS, Jund, Creature Swarm, and more. It acts as a 2nd bridge, blocker, and witchbane orb in any number of different situations. I'm firmly on 1 in the SB.
Finally, play sequence was touched upon in recent posts. I'm sure we all agree that it's the hardest element to write about, and perhaps the most important mechanic. If it's not football season, I crank about 20 hours of testing every week on this deck. The permutations are endless, and I never get bored. But, to really expound upon our matador-like dance in print.....that's the hard part. Ya think Mtgsalvation will have some practicals and lab work on that topic this Spring?
I personally played it against Titan Shift, Burn, RB Burn, Esper Control, Green Stompy, UB Thopter. The cards acts like a wall, a secondary bridge, protects our bridge, and makes math on the calcuation of burn or other to the face decks a few points different, where in a non-fetch based build is wonderful. I run a mono-blue build of cards and the hardest thing my opponent has is reducing me from 20. The meta is such that we are happy to optimize decks to punish us by turn 4 at approximately 17 life points on average (18 used to be magical for Scapeshift, but with the new advent of Titan people expect to either be dead or race and take every piece of life at any cost).
But, I will name one. By Force. It's shown up in several lists here, and I'm dumbfounded. It is categorically worse in every single way than Shattering Spree. It must be a budgetary decision....right? Artwork preference? Or, is it a deliberate and extraordinarily effective scheme to get my blood boiling? Good Koth Almighty! What foolishness is this?!
@FluffyWolf: Another data-hound with an excel spreadsheet to offer us. Pretty soon, we'll have a syllabus at the ready for Spring classes. One critique is obviously the misnomer on the title. We ain't Free Win Red. That's a creatureless, basic land creation. Celebrate your diversity, now, buddy. I agree on your appreciation of Spellskite. To answer Amok, I think it's invaluable in Burn, GDS, Jund, Creature Swarm, and more. It acts as a 2nd bridge, blocker, and witchbane orb in any number of different situations. I'm firmly on 1 in the SB.
Took out a few highlights of Ray that I'd like to address and note. I literally sat beside an opponent and had Abrade (Edit: Meant "By Force") shown as we discussed the sideboard. I literally got the question "Why are you not running shaterspree, its replicate avoids chalice." My response was "This was the decklist." And this is not a stab at @PaleGloveSyndrome as that is who's deck I chose, but more I respect the decisions and play the deck in an event or two before I make my own changes (when first utilizing the deck).
I'll respectfully decline the we are not "Free Win Red." Although I am very familiar with the build of what "Free Win Red" is, the concept of this deck is to gain the Free Wins, by an early Rabble, a line of creatures vs non-creature attacks, and the lock down that the deck offers, changing our opponents into Red decks we win against. I respect the name, don't get me wrong, just making a note that in game one based on the % of deck that is creatures you can actually not even see a creature or present one for data to our opponent, and literally win a very light sideboard in game two because you've naturally meta-gamed their deck as they remove removal assuming you are straight prison. I don't remember who said it but being proactive is actually the juice any "Red Ensnaring" deck needed. I like it, I'll respectfully name it Pyro Prison at a PPTQ.
Can anyone explain before my PPTQ why I care about Eidolon? And finally if you had 4 cards (2 Faithless Looting and 2 Eidolons) to replace, what would you do? I'm thinking 2 Sundroplets or maybe the Slagstorm idea, and just finding a better sideboard card. Sell me on this Eidolon, because I see it as the wrong decision in every matchup I've tried it in. (Example: Against a burn creature deck if I get an eidolon out, I need to continue to empty my hand to keep a bridge online, <= 3 CMC is just punches to my own face).
Edit: Oh, and if anyone wants me to run spreadsheet data let me know... it is my job at work, but I was thinking about running a coded simulator on our deck to determine % of different locks out of 10k + games. Just need to find time to determine the criteria and how I want the program to goldfish the deck. Any thoughts on what people may be curious to see statistically (in an effort to determine if your 4 simian//4 desperate is correct mathmatically or not?).
So, I Koth - mana trick float. Mint up a 4/4 Montana. Then, I cast a 2nd Koth, and do the exact same. I attack for (8) to seal the win. The dude was rocking up a Shrine of Burning Rage which was going to get ugly. I'm counting on exactly two things for the save: Witchbane Orb or an accelerated threat. Luckily, the hammer uppercuts came through in time. Slightest and Smallest of Sidenote: this is exactly why I do not believe R/W Palemoon exceeds our power-level. "Turtle-Down" answer cards do not win a game - Damage wins a game.
While I respect Caligula's thought about going deep on Hazoret the Fervent, I take pause. I turn again to my molten rock-fiend liege. Koth of the Hammer can hit for (4) upon casting irregardless of handsize. And, he can hit a 2nd time, and then go into mountain-ping mode for the 3rd turn-after-casting: ultimate emblem. Ping mode is absolutely devastating against creature decks, whereas Hazoret 2-player-damage effects are not game altering. We aren't generally a quick clock deck (although, we can be) - we don't care how many turns it takes to win. Exceptions Apply.
Finally, it's questionable to say that Koth is anemic behind an ensnaring bridge, and at the same time Hazoret the Fervent is somehow a more well-rounded threat. More and more, I realize that the Koth ultimate will pull the rug out from under an opponent's creature-based win condition.
Aaaaand, final note: have I mentioned that I've seen the large-scale, original painting of Koth of the Hammer [the same hyperlinked art] in a museum in Seattle, Washington - home of Wizards of the Coast. Well, I did. And, it was...spiritual.
Fun synergy; against Eldrazi & Taxes, my bridge got exiled by Wisp, then put into my graveyard by Wasteland Strangler.. it was fun.
I bring in 2 sweepers to up my count to 4. Also: ratchet bomb. Torpor Orb is steadily rising in effectiveness in this meta. And, I'm pleased to keep a spellskite in the sideboard as well. The matchup, when winning, usually ends when they scoop while looking at either 2 bridges or a bridge and a spellskite or a bridge and a torpor orb.
If this matchup presents increasing problems, then I'd look at Pyroclasm as a 5th sweeper. In matchups where we want to keep in our creature threats (this isn't one of them - take out all but Pia and Kiran Nalaar), Arc Trail presents a unique 1-sided sweeper option.
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
Lock Pieces(12)
4 Blood Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
Threats (12)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Magma Jet
2 Faithless Looting
2 Sweltering Suns
Lands (21)
18 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Defense Grid
2 Abrade
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Witchbane Orb
1 By Force
1 Damping Matrix
2 Spellskite
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
FNM 9/29 Report
Local FNM has a certain variety of decks, so it is good to play into at times to see if your sideboard is ready for just about any matchups. We went 4 rounds, below is the decks I played against and how they went.
R1: Bant Spirits
G1: My opponent is on the spirit plan, with a Maelstrom Wanderer. He counters my Chandra with a Spell Queller, which I've used as bait for an in hand Sweltering Suns. He floods the board attempting to beat me down in a two-turn clock, I swelter and proceed to Chandra and blood moon for the win.
G2: My opponent has obviously picked up on the basic plan, and has all but a temple garden for his colors. He begins beating down with Spirit Lords. He lands a Gideon and has me lethal on board. A top deck Ensnaring bridge stops Gideon, and a few draws later a Koth into emblem seals the deal. Both games go quick.
Sideboarding against Bant Spirits
+2 Magus of the Moon
-2 Faithless Looting
R2: Titan Shift
My opponent knows I run the most intriguing decks, but also knows I tend to play them at a high caliber (I've taken RallyFenza, Green Devotion, and Free Win Red to 5-0 wins before, RallyFenza also top 8ing an IQ of 50 people). So we banter back and forth and begin our matches.
G1: I attempted to sucker out another mountain from a Sakura-Tribe Elder, but my opponent seeing basic mountain plays correctly into fetching an additional forest. My initial turn one was a Faithless Looting so I was hoping to perhaps not give it away immediately. No matter, a blood moon followed by Chandra spelled a quick fate for my opponent, and a Chalice on 0 sealed the deal.
G2: Post sideboard this matchup gets difficult, as we want to keep Ensnaring Bridge in for titans, blood moons to prevent Scapeshift and are trying to get more hate cards in, but we don't have as many as we truly want. Spellskite is a horrible card in this matchup now as they are not going for exact but rather large quantities of damage. Game two turns into a Rabblemaster and slow draw that eventually gets shot down and then a Scapeshift for lethal.
G3: Game 3 follows a similar suit, however, he manages to get rid of my Witchbane Orb and Scapeshift on one turn with a prismatic omen out. The match feels like it is a difficult one, perhaps one we want to dodge.
Sideboarding against Titan Shift
+2 Magus of the Moon
+1 Witchbane Orb
+2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
-1 Faithless Looting
-4 Chalice of the Void (Maybe this was wrong, didn't feel like it though)
R3: 8-Whack
G1: Remember never to provide information to your opponent before the game begins if you can help it. My opponent mulls to 6 but flashes 4 bolts in hand with no lands. My turn one faithless looting was a quick pitch for blood moon as I worked to find the pieces I needed. I soon found out this was not burn but rather a bunch of goblins. We do eventually sweep the board with a sweltering sun with a top deck of a hazoret. We are 1 life, they are at 17. We opt not to swing to avoid hasty goblins which will kill us. Our opponent ends up topdecking a goblin piledriver into 4 lands. 4 Turns with shocks to the face bring our opponent to 5 life, and we then lose when they have enough. We are left wondering would it have been better to swing with hazoret and leaving ourselves open to many more spells?
G2: At this point it is clear, we must get a bridge down, we are not as worried about them going for our face. In game two we land a bridge quickly, and our opponent plays a Krenko. We'll just say that we do take them down with a Chandra, and hold back the final count of 444 goblins. Thank you bridge.
G3: Game three starts out with a very fast turn 1 chalice on 1. We have decided that we will try and hide behind this while we search for bridge. That being said our opponent draws 2 CMC and 3 CMC goblin creating spells which have us sweating. Our hand at this point is actually filling, Hazoret, Koth, Chandra, and we are on 1 Gemstone Cavern and 2 mountains. Our bridge that is out is not protecting us. We finally draw another mountain and are able to play hazoret is our play, to block a rather large goblin rabblemaster. This buys us another turn at 3 life, where we top deck another mountain, play Koth, minus Koth, play Chandra, and needed the final 2 mana to get rid of one other card. We are empty-handed, 1 Chandra, 1 Koth, 1 Hazoret, 1 Bridge, and Chalice on 1. We end up drawing another chalice and another bridge for redundancy. At this point, Hazoret is excellent as we do not want to drop any of our creatures in fear of searing blaze. Opponent dies and flashes 2 searing blazes in hand.
Sideboarding against 8 Whack
+2 Abrade
+2 Spellskite
-4 Blood Moon
R4: Affinity
G1: We are aware of each other in the matchup, however, my affinity opponent has a poor 7 and must go to 6. This results in a slower hand from affinity, and we eventually Bridge stabilize at 10 and get a Koth out. Koth, however, plays a more critical role than initially thought he would. We do get to ultimate him, but our first objective is to ping down ornithopters which are presenting lethal with cranial plating. After which our opponent cannot top deck fast enough and we kill with Koth Emblem.
G2: Our opponent keeps a rather slow hand, but a powerful hand at that. The starting hand contained 2 bridges and a blood moon, along with 2 lands and Chandra. The game results in 3 bridges being played and a backup spellskite. He manages to kill 2 bridges and spellskite, and cannot find enough for the final bridge. While having the bridges out we play Chandra to kill a played signal pest. The game was a back and forth of threatening plating moves from Inkmoth Nexus to the Signal pest, and we drew just right to deal with each threat before locking down the board for good. We win off the back of Chandra + Emblem.
Sideboarding against Afinity
+2 Abrade
+2 Spellskite
+1 By Force
+1 Damping Matrix
-4 Chalice of the Void
-2 Faithless Looting
Final Results:
Observations:
Edits with Sideboards (Should be close to what I did).
In my opinion - brave but understandable decision. Chalice at 1 doesn't bother them, it would have to be set on 2 and t1/t2 latest to stop Sakuras, Farseeks etc. I always try to replace Chalices against the decks who a) don't care about it at 1 counter b) play Chalices
how significant were = Eidolons and Lootings.??
You realize that from third match you started to sound like Gollum?
Uphill Climbs: +/- 25%
U-Tron
Bonus: Dorian, the Siege Tower. Impossible matchup. Luckily it's super obscure.
In these (luckily sparse) matchups, it's hard to imagine us winning more than 1 out of 4 matches.. even with a turn 1 Moon, U-Tron just has too many answers. The Dorian deck is very fringe but a nightmare for us, we literally have nothing for them.
Coin Tosses: +/- 50%
Affinity
Knightfall
Counters Company
Death and Taxes
Storm
Grixis Death's Shadow
GB Midrange
UW Control
RW Prison
Abzan
Jund
Grishoalbrand
UR Breach
KCI Combo
3 Color Control
Ad Nauseum
8-Whack
These matchups fall in the 4-6 wins out of 10 range. While they can give us trouble, we have the tools to handle them with the right draw, and we have ways to absolutely hose most of them, at least post-side. While their best draws can give us trouble, a nut draw on our side usually spells a win.
Favored: +/- 70%
Merfolk
Elves
Burn
Delver
Zoo
GW Company
Tron
Eldrazi Tron
Eldrazi and Taxes
Titan Shift
Jund Death's Shadow
Esper Death's Shadow
Dredge
Living End
These are the matchups we hope for. Every time I see a top 8 littered with these names I know we missed a golden opportunity. These fall into the 7-8 wins out of 10 range, as our lock suite is exceptional against them while their answers are few, or at least manageable post-side. Most have no chance against many of our best draws.
Snoozefests: +/- 95%
8-Rack
Lantern Control
Skred
Infect
Bogles
And now we have the nom-noms.. the matchups we drool over. We are heavy favorites here, most times even against their best draws. I would put these in the 9-10 out of 10 range. If you happen to lose a match to these guys, the story surely has something to do with lands, either too many or too few.
Of course these are my own observations, you guys might have different opinions about some of these, and if so, let me know. Possible miscalculations aside, the message is clear; we are in a GREAT spot right now.
Oh and I never played against 8Rack but I guess this has to be an unpleasant experience.
My written dialogue sometimes does tend towards Gollum, or other characters, I did the shift in speech a lot in school when I found out an English teacher loved it.
Brave, perhaps, although I play Titan Shift some (Prefer RUG/BTL Scapeshift) and know that Chalice on 2 is really the only thing we would care to do, which by then we're likely behind if we're trying to chalice on 2. A lot of lists run x2-x3 Summoner's Pact, which a Chalice on 0 would be good, but now we're just blocking 2 cards versus ramp, and if we're blocking ramp on turn even 2 or so, we're not blocking Search for Tomorrow and the Elf, along with the decks normally have 26 - 27 lands, the inevitable 6 lands Omen, or 7-8 lands scapeshift/honor/primetime felt that chalice was just going to be too slow (ironically) in our deck.
@PaleGloveSyndrome - I'd actually like this person to weigh in on the Eidolons. I got 1 down the whole time and actually am not sure I'd ever want to bring them in again. In fact, I'd like to ask the Pyros here, what are 2 other cards that would work better in our plan?
Faithless Looting was absolutely fine. I never flashbacked the lootings that I did cast, as I never really wanted to draw and discard with the risk of keeping something in hand. Albeit if I needed to dig it is nice. Knowing what stage we are in the game (first 2 - 4 turns) we like our redundant hate cards, and chalice can be plucked onto all sorts of different costs. The only cards we are wanting to really loot away is our rituals late game, and we may be paying 3 (I believe for looting flashback) to risk then getting our 4 drops, and turning on any 1/X creatures (which can be just the right amount sometimes).
Round 1 - JundBears
This was my friend's Jund brew he threw together a few hours before. We were actually testing right before FNM started, and it got shut down hard by each piece of the lock suite. "Hopefully we won't have to play" he said. I half laughed half cried when pairings went up.
Game 1: He went first, and knew to fetch for a basic right away. My turn, Turn 1 Blood Moon. Sad thing about Jund, it needs 3 different basics. He never came back.
Game 2: He got 2 basics this time, and kept digging for his abrupt decays for my bridges. Couldn't get them before chandra ult.
1-0
Round 2 - Storm
Game 1: He goes first. Turn 1 Rabblemaster, Turn 2 Rabblemaster, he Storms off turn 3.
Game 2: I go first. SSG Ritual Ritual Chalice on 2, he scoops.
Game 3: Keep a sketchy hand, no chalice but a Grafdigger's Cage. Figured it'd be fine. He ran through a ton of Gifts and cantrips, but couldn't go off. Didn't get a chalice that game, but he spent so long unable to combo, that chandra finished him.
2-0
Round 3 - 8-Whack
Game 1: He comes out the gate swinging with Goblin Guides and Bushwhackers. I power out my own Rabblemasters to try to make blockers, but with no removal or bridge in hand he outraces me.
Game 2: Chalice on 1 on turn 2, then a Hazoret on turn 4. He dies in a few swings after chumping.
Game 3: Chalices on 1 and 2, then a bridge. He cast one thing all game I think. Game took a while for me to find anything to kill him with, but Chandra on turn 7~ish got me there.
3-0
First place in my first FNM of the year felt good. Got a Fatal Push and 4 packs (free tournament, so pretty good).
Attached is my progress on foiling the deck. That'll take me another good few years.
Well I'm sad to say I am giving up on this deck...for now. If I didn't have the whole thing foiled out and materpieced I would sell it off, but it is just too pretty. Here is the thing. I play daily on MTGO. I think I've had 30 days under my belt with a minimum three games a day - minimum. Yes, I play a lot. And just today I lost to a snake deck on MTGO. lol It doesn't get any more embarrassing than that. A deck that costs a small fortune lost to a pile a junk.
The deck is strong in disruption, but to my surprise there were a lot of decks that just didn't care about Void, Bridge, or Moon. And even with the lock, I noticed closing was an issue. And because of that, the inability to close in a reasonable time allows them to dig or patiently wait for that yugioh like heart of the cards to slip past the lock and win. Though, I give the deck a 10/10 for looking cool while winning when it did via Chandra, Koth, Hazoret, Pia, and Rabble, Goblin Assault, but their is no single one consistent hard closer.
And on a small rant, I died so many times while Bridge was up just because I could not empty my hand brimming with three costing cards. At that point I might as well play three costing sweepers and just pass on Bridge.
As for me? I think I'm going to shore up my Robots and Gobots deck for the up coming GP in December. And, maybe after a month from now I'll begin work on a mono black control torment of hailfire deck - we will see.
Catch yawl later when there are stronger and more consistent closer(s).
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
I recently went 2-2 at my latest Thursday Modern Night with the same list as last time. I realized it didn't take long for my entire meta to adapt to me.
On average each player now has 2/3 card SPECIFICALLY for pyro prison. If that's not ******* ridiculous I don't know what is.
I learned many things while playing against decks made to stop us.
1. Bridge is fragile. We need to be a deck that doesn't rely on it as heavily.
2. Birds and Nobles are a major problem for us. I'm tired of seeing them. Maybe my meta is creature heavy so take this with a grain of salt.
3. Tier 1 decks are not the issue. We don't struggle against the best, we struggle against the middle of the road tier 2 decks.
To compensate for the hate, I shifted my deck into a new direction...
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
Lock Pieces(12)
4 Blood Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Magma Jet
3 Slagstorm
Lands (21)
18 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
So why this new direction without Koth? To put it simply, Koth is a great way to win behind bridge, or even close the game on an empty board, but otherwise he's a really bad card. Hear me out as I can already feel Ray judging me... If we are in anyway behind would you rather see Koth or Hazoret? For me its Haz every-time. She's a pain in the ass for non-white decks. If we are top decking into an empty board, would you rather see Koth or Hazoret? For me its again Hazoret, because she guarantees we end the game without a random burn or coco making dudes to kill Koth. Behind a bridge, she's worse over time, but she empties our hand and gives us insurance if bridge dies.
Chandra, Pyromaster - Well for sure we get to run promo black versions sooooooooo there's that. In all seriousness though, she is the best way to kill mana dorks, tokens and remove blockers without wasting a removal. The fact that she increases as shes gunning down lingering souls or nobles is relevant. She also digs deeper into the deck than tormenting voice, faithless looting or even other Chandra as she can hit lands. The question becomes how do we make her ult relevant again?
Changing how we think of utility spells is the key. Let's not rely on bridge so heavily, which means a shift to more burn. Magma jet gets a lot of hate on this thread for no reason. 2 damage in this meta is always a good thing, even against control and storm. The scry 2 is so valuable, I've seen people path my jet target. Sweltering Suns very rarely gets cycled for me, so let's just turn them back into slagstorms like this thread originally proposed. It does the same effect, but can also go face when we have rabbles pushing through. Yes it deals us damage, but if we are low on life, I doubt we are throwing it at faces anyway. Chandra now has two major targets to hit when she ults. 6 damage and 9 damage are not unimportant numbers with this deck, and scry 2 x3 is also awesome. Most times Chandra will not need to ult as her other two abilities are good, but just in case we want to close, we have the option.
On another note let's take about the white splash once more because our lock was recently featured in a big tourney:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=116446
I'm not saying we should snap add white, but its relevant to note side-boarding and threat amounts.
I agree with those saying Eidolon is good, because it is. I am thinking of jumping to 3 after I saw a turn 1 Eidolon hose 8-wack.
Our sideboard needs to become highly meta-focused as it needs to combat local tier 2 decks trying to beat us. The tier 1 decks are already beaten by the lock. We need to make each sideboard decision based on the decks we lose to each week. This is why I will not longer be posting set side-board lists.
Again, take all of this with a grain of salt. I am re-positioning the deck to fight a meta of 8-wack, Infect, Affinity, Green-White Value, Ponza, Eldrazi Tron and bant Eldrazi. I'm tired of relying solely on bridge to beat all of those creatures. Let me know what you think.
PS. don't be discouraged by small event results, I truly believe our deck does best when the entire meta isn't inbred to beat us. Take this to a PPTQ and spike it.
"Carving out your piece of the online market."
You said something that needed to be said though, the sb is always going to be changing to reflect the local meta as everyone's is different. That being said I feel like there are "better" options to lean towards such as Eidolon, Orb, Grid, Shattering Spree, Cage and Matrix that are key in shutting specific popular decks out that shouldn't be left at home.
That all being said, I have relegated Pyro Prison to the back burner this last week or so. I have been rocking a brew on Blue Eldrazi Tron to an insane amount of success and I am having a lot of fun utilizing my Tron lands. I will still keep up with the thread and probably get a few games in a week with it but I'm advocating Blue Eldrazi as the most underrated deck.
RG BBE Ponza
UX Eldrazi Tron
UR Jace Breach
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
Lock Pieces(12)
4 Blood Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
Threats (12)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Magma Jet
2 Faithless Looting
2 Sweltering Suns
Lands (21)
18 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Defense Grid
2 Abrade
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Witchbane Orb
1 By Force
1 Damping Matrix
2 Spellskite
2 Anger of the Gods
Alright, I swapped out 2 Eidolon's for 2 Angers. Nothing fancy here just collecting some data, see image attached.
The Highlights:
Notable Cards
My observations and some data for people to chew on. Churned these out in about 3 days. (Yep I grind, yes I attempt to optimize a deck, nope I'm not satisfied yet, and will begin playing with new sideboard cards about now, any suggestions?)
Edit: Of note MVP from sideboard has been Spellskite actually and 1 Anger one game. Abrade has killed artifacts but I've been behind (along with Shattering spree). Damping Matrix has taken more counters then I liked, but likely has opened up the door for bridge or moon.
how? what did you play it against?
QUESTION: Is Mtgsalvation offering elective credit for studying the evolving landscape of Pyro Prison in today's meta? Reading down the intense analysis on page 24 of our thread, it seems like they should. If we were to class it up, I anticipate some heated action in afterschool debate club on:
But, I will name one. By Force. It's shown up in several lists here, and I'm dumbfounded. It is categorically worse in every single way than Shattering Spree. It must be a budgetary decision....right? Artwork preference? Or, is it a deliberate and extraordinarily effective scheme to get my blood boiling? Good Koth Almighty! What foolishness is this?!
Caligula did a helluva job breaking down the matchup percentages of how shart is going down out there on the battlefield. Impressive. I could disagree a little here and there, but that would be nitpicking. I mean, it's not like he's out there slinging around By Force plays in tournament play. I'd say we're a little better positioned than his claims on D'n'T, GDS, Ad Nauseam, and Storm (although their addition of Baral/Gifts play has enhanced their win strategies). Doran, the Siege Tower and U-Tron decks are our demise, eh? Well, if it has to be so. Bottom line: His conclusion is that we are phenomenally situated in today's meta!!!
A li'l measure of proof: LindonMichael, judge of his local LGS, takes down a win at his first FNM with Pyro Prison. Another log on the fire for the champ!
@Paleglovesyndrome: So, we're trying more of this "Big Red" approach with your decklist on post # 592. Although you write, "I can already feel Ray judging me,..." Hardly. I like what you're trying. A few bullets on it:
Finally, play sequence was touched upon in recent posts. I'm sure we all agree that it's the hardest element to write about, and perhaps the most important mechanic. If it's not football season, I crank about 20 hours of testing every week on this deck. The permutations are endless, and I never get bored. But, to really expound upon our matador-like dance in print.....that's the hard part. Ya think Mtgsalvation will have some practicals and lab work on that topic this Spring?
I personally played it against Titan Shift, Burn, RB Burn, Esper Control, Green Stompy, UB Thopter. The cards acts like a wall, a secondary bridge, protects our bridge, and makes math on the calcuation of burn or other to the face decks a few points different, where in a non-fetch based build is wonderful. I run a mono-blue build of cards and the hardest thing my opponent has is reducing me from 20. The meta is such that we are happy to optimize decks to punish us by turn 4 at approximately 17 life points on average (18 used to be magical for Scapeshift, but with the new advent of Titan people expect to either be dead or race and take every piece of life at any cost).
Took out a few highlights of Ray that I'd like to address and note. I literally sat beside an opponent and had Abrade (Edit: Meant "By Force") shown as we discussed the sideboard. I literally got the question "Why are you not running shaterspree, its replicate avoids chalice." My response was "This was the decklist." And this is not a stab at @PaleGloveSyndrome as that is who's deck I chose, but more I respect the decisions and play the deck in an event or two before I make my own changes (when first utilizing the deck).
I'll respectfully decline the we are not "Free Win Red." Although I am very familiar with the build of what "Free Win Red" is, the concept of this deck is to gain the Free Wins, by an early Rabble, a line of creatures vs non-creature attacks, and the lock down that the deck offers, changing our opponents into Red decks we win against. I respect the name, don't get me wrong, just making a note that in game one based on the % of deck that is creatures you can actually not even see a creature or present one for data to our opponent, and literally win a very light sideboard in game two because you've naturally meta-gamed their deck as they remove removal assuming you are straight prison. I don't remember who said it but being proactive is actually the juice any "Red Ensnaring" deck needed. I like it, I'll respectfully name it Pyro Prison at a PPTQ.
Can anyone explain before my PPTQ why I care about Eidolon? And finally if you had 4 cards (2 Faithless Looting and 2 Eidolons) to replace, what would you do? I'm thinking 2 Sundroplets or maybe the Slagstorm idea, and just finding a better sideboard card. Sell me on this Eidolon, because I see it as the wrong decision in every matchup I've tried it in. (Example: Against a burn creature deck if I get an eidolon out, I need to continue to empty my hand to keep a bridge online, <= 3 CMC is just punches to my own face).
Edit: Oh, and if anyone wants me to run spreadsheet data let me know... it is my job at work, but I was thinking about running a coded simulator on our deck to determine % of different locks out of 10k + games. Just need to find time to determine the criteria and how I want the program to goldfish the deck. Any thoughts on what people may be curious to see statistically (in an effort to determine if your 4 simian//4 desperate is correct mathmatically or not?).