@Raystack: The Abrade did not ever feel like the card I wanted in my hand but multiple times was the card I wanted to top deck. I want to test it more before I have a strong opinion on it. As for the lands in my list, I just haven't tried any besides mountains. I bought into most of the list right after SaffronOlive did his free win red list. The other additions (chalice of the void and goblin rabblemaster) I already owned, so they were easy to include. I definitely think that the other land options are better, but I did not own them before that event (I still do not own them in paper because I am going on a paper hiatus). I plan on running 3 gemstone caverns in my MTGO list. In that event I was also super impressed by Koth of the Hammer and will definitely keep two in the list and maybe test out a third.
-1- It's been said that 'you always want to have a Chandra'. But, really, you only want to see her on turn 3. That's 10 cards deep, and even then, she may not be the right call. First and foremost, Lock 'Em Down. Swarm/Grixis/Burn/Abzan & many others are setting up their kill conditions faster than a personal howling mine or flame slash will tilt the game back in our favor. Jus' Sayin' I never want to see her in my opening hand, so I'm back to 3. But, hey - we're talking about a cornerstone card as a 3 or a 4, so there's really no right or wrong...right?
-2- Lands/Rituals: I'm holding strong at 21 land and 9 rituals with 3 gemstone caverns. Sometimes, I question the randomzier in Cockatrice, but statistically, I feel confident with these numbers - especially with our hand grooming spells. Sidenote: pleased to hear that Sorz is going to join the G-Cavern gang: with (3) Caverns, the odds of you starting with (2) lands in play is 1-in-6. I think?? Mathing isn't my specialty.
Remember when facing U/W control or R/W control, it's wise to take out a couple of rituals, and bring in additional win conditions from your sideboard. Do not fall into the traditional trap of loading up your 15 with typical sideboard 'answer' cards. We are a Sideboard Deck already! Be aggressive on your sideboarding strategies by implementing threat diversity & density.
This is a critical differential between us and Sun and Moon. They win off of Planeswalkers or Emrakul, and in games 2-3? They still win off of planeswalkers or Emrakul. So much of their spell selection is 'answer' cards. I'd rather present a problem, and hope my opponent doesn't have the answer than hold an answer and hope my opponent draws a corresponding threat.
-3- Hellfire and Brimstone: Up Close and Personal with Mizzium Mortars
First, it's more popular alternative: Abrade. I still struggle with why we would play this card with the sole exception of Affinity. Sorz talked about how he probably is moving away from his singleton after his Top 8 finish. Break down the application of Abrade versus Mizzium Mortars. Affinity aside, it's not even close. Abrade will help against Lantern (yawn, we crush it) and Blue/Tron (wicked outlier deck) & it has to be appreciated that abrade is an instant. Mortars is only a sorcery. However the 1-sided sweep potential can be game ending.
Picture it this way, what if Anger of the Gods / Sweltering Suns were slightly altered in costs and offered 2 modalities. They could cost R1 and hit with a shock/bolt OR they cost RR2 and could sweep for shock/bolt level damage. Would you consider using this spell? Well, that's what Mizzium Mortars offers, except it costs more on an 'overload' and hits for more damage. This kills:
These are all very common threats for us, which are otherwise untouchable by our normal targeted kill: Magma Jet. However, to be fair, Abrade does kill (2) on the list: Baral and Displacer. In sum, Mizzium Mortars scales extremely well: it's excellent on turn 2 and titanic in mid-game. I now have 1 MM in my SB. But, I keep thinking about it....am I swapping my 3rd Tormenting Voice for a 1st Mizzium Mortars which frees up a sideboard slot for a....spellskite or a 2nd Hazoret the Fervent??
Speaking of Hazoret the Fervent, Proxxy mentioned that he is going to be testing our colors' original Glass....errrr Stone Cannon: Goblin Charbelcher. Hey - when you're a mono-color control deck, it's wise to look under every rock for win conditions, cuz we ain't got many. Charbelcher was tested here and there. It's hokey, but can be a turn 2 win Ultimately it was cast aside by our one and only god: Hazoret. She costs the same and - in true god fashion - she offers more stability in our lives. Today is Sunday after all....Got Hazoret? Oh Gawd, I didn't just write that.
I wrote that phrase once in an earlier post, and it just keeps clanging around in my melon...Totality and Search. It was written as a rebuke to the concept of 1-for-1 removal/response. Pyro Prison succeeds because its doctrine is the antithesis of that mechanic. I talked about how the king of 1-for-1 is the Jund, and Jund is nowhere to be seen these days. Other decks, like U/W or W/R Control rely upon sweepers, but I grimace at the thought of their maindeck inclusion. What if I'm facing creatureless or creature-light opponents? Now, some would argue that Ensnaring Bridge is a sweeper. If so, it is 1-sided by design and it's a wrath of god in perpetuity. read: my creatures live & keep coming
For us, the beauty is in the simplicity. I've gotta somehow incorporate the ethos of Totality and Search into our Official Primer.
Totality: Ensnaring Bridge, Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Chalice of the Void, Sweltering Suns Search: Tormenting Voice, Magma Jet, Chandra, Torch of Defiance Mana Advantage: (9) Rituals, (3) Gemstone Caverns, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, and Koth of the Hammer The Snarl: Goblin Rabblemaster & Pia and Kiran Nalaar
I've been a long time lurker, this is my 1st post. I fell in love with this deck when I 1st laid eyes on it. I only play Modern FNM currently because that's all I have time for. I'm posting so hopefully the members of this forum can critique my list. I finish 4-0 or 3-1 usually against a meta that contains a lot of Burn, Death Shadow variants, 1 Eldrazi Tron, 2 Elves, 1 Lantern Control and some other off the wall ideas. (Mill, 5 Color Aggro, etc.) Here is my list:
Pastor Raystack, holy church of Hazoret. Preach on brotha man! As always you offer great insight on what we're trying to do, and why. Since nobody has ever done this here before, I thought I might share the math behind how we do those things. In other words, I'm about to get hypergeometric on that azz.
All of these percentages are assuming we're on the play. Let's start with lands; we want 4 by turn 4. With 21, this will happen 48% of the time, and 53% with 22.
With 8 Rituals, we'll have at least 3 mana on turn 2 70% of the time, and 75% with 9.
59% of the time we'll have a Blood Moon in hand by turn 2, while we'll have a Chalice or Bridge 44%.
With 3 Chandras, we'll have exactly 1 by turn 4 35% of the time, while with 4 she'll be there 40%, with multiples showing up at 6% and 12% respectively.
With 2 Gemstone Caverns, obviously on the draw, we'll have one 23% of the time, while with 3 it jumps to 31%. I'll be moving to 3.
The discussion of removal is a bit trickier. The argument regarding 1-for-1 removal, for me, is all about post-board, because we have no room for them in the main. A few matchups come to mind, but for this example, let's look at Vizier Druid. Without a removal spell, they can combo off on turn 3, and while they only have 4 copies of each creature, they have CoCo and/or tutors to help find them. Here are our chances of finding at least 1 castable removal spell by turn 2 on the draw;
With 2- 27%
With 3- 39%
With 4- 48%
With 5- 56%
(This is why I've gone to 3 Magma Jet with 2 Abrade in the side, but I'll be switching 1 out for Mortars)
I hope these numbers help make some decisions easier for you guys, or at least help affirm your choices! Keep grindin, 'folk!
To newly arrived travelers PaleGloveSyndrome and PhilliesPhan - The Mountain Cave Welcomes Thee
@PaleGloveSyndrome: With mono-red experience, I'm sure you have some knowledge to share, and the best part is that you can still recycle your snow-covered mountains in a misdirection play. As for learning our craft, I run my Pyro Prison deck on Cockatrice almost nightly, and I'm still developing tactically. Beginners Tip for you: Be more aggressive with your lock attempts than what might seem reasonable - overextend.
@PhilliesPhan: Pumped to hear that you're throwing rocks around your FNM with repeated wins. The outlier card in your construction is clearly Pia Nalaar. Interesting. I did pull down a 5th place finish in a 1K this January with a single Mom in my deck. But, haven't used her since.
She is damage, and I keep preaching about our need for more wincons. Related to that word choice - preaching - Koth almighty, Caligula! I'm no Pastor...You and your colorful metaphors Jeebus. Nevertheless, uncanny breakdown on the statistics! The one element not addressed explicitly in your analysis is the Mulligan. I mulligan nearly 50% of the time. So, it's 2 chances, with a scry, to find the right mix of the prison suite or turbo-goblin attack.
Spotlight: Pia Nalaar
As for evaluating Pia Nalaar: Her assets are...complicated. Let's compare her to other options mentioned: On one hand, she offers the attacking clock which complements Goblin Rabblemaster at a 3 cmc. Recently, I posited Phyrexian Metamorph as a similar option - the 5th Rabblemaster (but it wasn't consistent enough). Momma Says: Pia doesn't need a cloning target.
I also pondered my pet card, Kargan Dragonlord, as an over the top mother-rager. But, it's totally incongruous with Ensnaring Bridge. Momma Says: Pia flies through and pumps post attack on a bridge.
I liked her firebreathing ability, but there weren't enough targets with just the one thopter that she spits out. Momma Says: Just play my husband pairing too - oh, and another one of me in your deck, so that provides plenty o' targets.
....wait a minute.
To the Archives! I already wrote up some thoughts on Mama Pyro - which are far more succinct than my babble above...
From January 27th, 2017 - Raystack wrote:
Also, instead of a 2nd Piran: Octopusman mentioned Pia Nalaar a couple times on this thread. Initially, I dismissed the regal lady, as a lesser version of the partnered pair: Pia and Kiran Nalaar. But, then again.....
- She comes out one turn earlier. Significant since we're a bridge deck - also, fast decks will blast you before you reach 4-cmc.
- She doesn't conflict with the legendary rule on another Pia and Kiran Nalaar. You can have both on the field at the same time.
- Her pumping ability finally finds us a 'mana sink'.
- Against the very popular Lantern deck, I can pump my Spellskite to get under their bridge and smack face.
- Against the very popular Affinity deck, I can pump their Ornithopter or Signal Pest, so they can't get under my bridge. If I Chalice for 1, then Pia's protected from Galvanic Blast & that's GG!
Is this along the lines of what you were thinking, PhilliesPhan? It all still seems pretty sound. That said....that said...I'm not saying there's no reason why I haven't used her since my top 8 in a 1K nine months ago.
Hey Pyro Prison players, long time lurker who lost his last MTGS account. Ive been rocking this deck for the last 7-ish months and have consumed every bit of information I can on the archetype, flavors and matchups. While it is my favorite, and IMO most underrated deck, I still feel it is a card or two away from being a real teir 1 or 2 deck. So many games come down to getting either Chalice or Bridge to not die and most decks are rocking ways to deal with artifacts, really makes Welding Jar seem like it's been overlooked (or maybe just win more). Ill post my current list, forgive formatting, its been awhile since ive been on this site.
MD preferences - 6 Rituals, 4 SSGs and the Gemstone Caverns allow for consistently more explosive turn 1 and turn 2 plays. This last week I had 2 games at FNM go as such... Turn 1 Mountain, SSG, Ritual, Ritual into Chandra, tick up, drop Chalice on 1. Opponent conceded before playing a spell. And 1 other game go Turn 1, Gemstone, Mountain, SSG, Ritual into Chandra, tick up, cast another Ritual into Ensnaring Bridge, emptying my hand. Obviously this wont happen every game nor a reasonable amount of it but it does lead to some wins I would otherwise not have earned. Jaya Ballard is something I'm not really proud of, she is weak and easily killable but there are some games where repeated removal or burn does give enough leverage to close a game out.
SB choices - Defense Grid is my favorite answer to UW Control, Jeskai and UB Faeries. Pretty solid choice and sometimes drops turn 1 off a Caverns or SSG. Cage is a necessary evil for me, lots of Goryo's, Storm and various CoCo decks make this an easy choice. 2 may be incorrect but I hate cutting cards. Eidolon is the best SB card. Most game 2's and 3'd end up revolving around me sitting behind an Eidolon and controlling the game until a walker or creature can end the game. Also some of our bad matchups are decks that just want to drop their hands, Eidolon is as good as Chalice and Moon in terms of hate sometimes. Affinity, Storm, Elves, Lantern, Grixis Shadow and Burn are risky matchups that get much easier to win post SB. Molten Rain is the only SB card I'm currently on the fence about but I need something to SB in against Eldrazi, there just isn't much we can do to stop them aside from sit behind a Bridge. However the whole Walking Ballista, Endbringer and Collar backup plan is good against us, maybe Harsh Mentor instead? Yeah, Ill probs sb some Mentors and take out the Rains for my next FNM.
I feel like we don't need more win conditions in the SB, Avaricious Dragon, Sin Prodder, Quicksmith Rebel, all okay but I feel a waste of a sb slot. Wizards will hopefully keep spoiling us with good big red spells in the coming sets. Also if Chalice or Bridge get reprints I feel like we will see more people on this type of deck, lots of players locally are impressed with my 75 and my win rate but cant build it due to prices. I recommended to them to build Skred first and then pick up Chalices and move to this but that's all easier said than done.
Personally, hoping to pick up some of the new Un-set's basic mountains, unf, gonna look fresh AF.
EDIT: Just realized Damping Matrix is exactly what I need to stop Eldrazi from hitting us from under a lock. Also, Eidolon info.
Hey guys, I am finally back in the USA now! And because of that, I can now start testing Pyro Prison! But, I have to admit, I am having a hard time - long time aggro player. As of right now, I have far more losses than wins, but I hope that will change over time. And to the deck's defense, I made a ton of mistakes. lol But, in my short testing time I learned a few things. Red Sun Zenith and Goblin Charbelcher are not as potent as I had hoped. There mana investment is too steep for too little reward and Charbelcher is a continuous investment. Even Koth of the Hammer is lack luster for the same reasons, because I typically find myself wanting to make use of mana over his ultimate effect of pinging an opponent to death. This makes me feel a bit light on kill conditions as Chandra, Torch of Defiance is my only kill condition since I refuse to use ground pounders. On the bright side, I have more slots available.
Another issue I had was a lack of protection. Yes, we have access to Chalice of the Void and Ensnaring Bridge, but you have to draw them and in some situations their effect is not as...binding as I would hope for. So, this brings me to filtering/drawing and board wipes as mandatory slots. The nice thing is that we have some nifty options when it comes to both filtering/drawing/board wipes all in one card.
Lastly, is it a mistake to go second most if not all the time to gamble off drawing a Gemstone Caverns?
I know my resource configuration is not the standard configuration, which I think is the most stable and flexible configuration. However, I am testing mode, so I wanted to see how a faster, but less stable and flexible configuration would work. Note, I typically like to start off with extremes on both sides then walk it into a optimum balance.
@Spec.Ops: Welcome Back, Partner. Ever the tinkerer, I see you've got some new toys in the laboratory. Buuuuuut, methinks you're still a bit rusty on your Magicking or maybe the jet lag is extra punishing on a mountain man. Studies have shown that Blue Mages are most resilient to air travel.
Spark Jolt.....Scouring Sands.....and no creatures.....what is this madness, prodigal son! (8) heretofore unknown commoners that ping for 1 and scry for 1 - all in the maindeck?
And, where's our namesake for Hammer's Slammer? No Koth of the Hammer is saddening. Actually, I've most recently added an additional Koth to my 75: 1 MD & 1 SB. I think he's more impactful as a bring-in than Hazoret the Fervent. Lastly, I see you've moved away from Red Sun's Zenith and Goblin Charbelcher, so that is something we can agree upon. Proxxy was the last to try the stone cannon, but haven't heard of any positive results.
@Timtamthebadman96: Proud to have you join the fire! Insightful write-up with a lot of good evaluations due to your extensive testing over the last 1/2 year. When I get more time, I'll address them. As for your final query, I suggest: Witchbane Orb in the sideboard as a 2-of. It protects us and our planeswalkers from Endbringer and Walking Ballista . Additionally Orb is terrific against Burn, Scapeshift, Lantern, Storm, and so much more.....
What I liked best about your post was your prediction and feedback from your LGS: "I feel like we will see more people on this type of deck, lots of players locally are impressed with my 75 and my win rate but cant build it due to prices."
As for formatting for card hyperlinks, you can simply highlight the word and then click the magic card in the tool bar above OR type in [card$] before the card and [/card$] after the card -- but don't include the money sign.
Hey Rey! Yes I'm back and it feels good to tinker again. You got me laughing on the blue mage jet lag. lol By far the worst travel arrangements of my life!!! And, speaking of blue, I made a rouge blue combo control deck that has yet to loose. If you got MTGO lets go bro! You and me brah! Just not the face and no Pyro Prison. lol
As for the Pyro Prison changes, I reasoned I'm not going to have a rock star hand every time and I need something to tame the wilds of the field. Modern is 50% aggro right now. And I have to say the new cards are doing the job well. Since the changes, it has been nothing but win. #nosideboardeither
I guess it comes down to mindsets in that I'm at odds with a true control deck that pioneers traditional creatures. If we were sporting say Aetherling I would be all for it, but he is not red. The second contention I have is popping our lock to then go toe-to-toe with the opponent on the field. It is odd to me. If I'm going to stop my opponent from playing magic I'm going to kill him via unconventional means i.e. Chandra. But, I can get behind Koth and Hazoret because they kill by unconventional means. (Note, Hazoret is quite similar to Charbelcher.) I personally want eight kill cards. I have four right now. So, something has to give. As of right now, I see far more need for Crystal Ball than kill conditions as every match post change has resulted in a win...a very...slow and painful win...did I say slow?
On a side note I'm pissed off most websites are out of foils. These damn buy outs should not be happening! Does anyone know how much a foil masterpiece Blood Moon and Chalice of the Void costs? A USD metric ***** ton is how much a set costs and I can't get them because they are sold out. Does anyone feel my first world problems! LOL
I cannot see how this kind of prison deck needs more maindeck sweepers/burn. At the moment I only play 4 Ensnaring Bridge + 2 Magma Jet since I don't feel that the deck requires any more anti creature cards main. For very creature heavy meta I'd probably keep 2 Magma Jet and add Sweltering Sun, Arc Trail, Pyroclasm or Anger of the Gods in this specific order. 2-4 additional maindeck cards (not counting bridges ofc) should do their job fairly well. For everything else we got our sideboard.
Not playing any creatures takes away any kind of pivot this deck has to offer. With fast Planeswalker, efficient creatures and strong lock elements, we are able to attack from different angles which is necessary against the wide deck range modern offers.
I seem to have disturbed the force with my take on Pyro Prison. Even though I have positive results and continue to lead wins over losses I will find Raystacks last posted version of Pyro Prison and give the ground pounders a chance.
Hey guys, I'm back with my recent experiences using some of the ground pounders. Here is the deck I used. It is the one Raystacks did so well with at that GP...I think? But, I grabbed it from one of his posts.
Goblin Rabblemaster: Wow. I was missing out. This little guy is the bees-knees. He is now my second kill card. Instead of talking about how great he is I will let my experiences speak for him. In one game I was lucky enough to turn one drop Rabble for a turn four win. In another match, I was put in a tight spot by Liliana of the Veil and a wall of beef protecting her. I had one Rabble out, who was protected by our triple lock suit so it was only a matter of time till he stabbed that witch to death. And, once I dropped the second Rabble it was a wrap. I added a full suit.
Koth of the Hammer: Why not? I have never made much use out of Koth, because typically I rather play anything before him or use him to attract counter bait. But, Koth is another win condition. I will add one copy.
Tormenting Voice: Let me count the ways why I dislike this card. Note, I had used it before in my earlier version of Pyro Prison. So, this is the second time I have given it a chance, but the results were the same. Here are a few reasons why I removed it. One, if it is countered it is a double loss, which occurred once in testing and MTGO has a strong showing of blue. Two, I am forced to discard a card and sometimes I do not want to discard any cards. Three, it is a dead card when top decked with no cards in hand, which happened to me. In that same instance now bizarre instance, I was trying to hide behind a Bridge, but because I had that one card in my hand they were able to swing for game. It is a very rare situation, but it happened. I removed all copies.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: She did not make the cut. I did play her, but if I needed to remove a card she was the first to go or the last to be played. Pia is costly with little return in investment. Now, as a sideboard option she could be useful when dealing with Stoney Silence. But, that is just it, Pia is a sideboard option. I removed all copies.
Magus of the Moon: He never appeared, but I clearly see his use. I will consider him for future use.
Here are my changes to the deck after my testing with ground pounders.
3-1 FNM with 25 participants, taking decent 3rd place with few boosters for it.
2:0 against Skred - no counters, no discard, his hand full of uselless Moons, me slamming Chandra then Metamorphing into his Stormbreath to keep him at bay, then Bridge. G2 early Bridge then planeswalkers, keeping at bay his Eternal Scourges
2:0 against UR Through the Breach - g1 I let him Remand the Rabblemaster to slam Moon and then slowly proceed, I Abrade his Clique, slam Master, slam Siege Gang, slam Metamorph, he draws lands only - g2 I bait him with early Master, but he has no counters for it. Burns it my turn, I land a Chalice and it is uphill from there
2:1 against Dredge - g1 we mull to 5 and play nothing for four turns, I eventually drop Bridge and Chandra hides behind it. g2 - he draws Grudge a turn before Chandras ultimate to destroy my Bridge and goes for lethal. g3 - Chalice for 1, Bridge, Moon (he reveals a Maelstrom Pulse he just drew to destroy my Bridge, luckily no access to neither B or G under Moon just REEED, Hazoret GG
1:2 against Grixis Shadow - g1 no discard, I land Chalice on t2, he manages to play Tasigur but I copy it with Metamorph keeping him at bay....g2 he manages to go under chalice 1 and 2 to drop angler and I keep drawing lands and rituals. g3 I keep drawing planeswalkers but die to two huge shadows.
Overall happy with the configuration - Metamorph and Hazoret are awesome. I will probably be swapping Siege Gang for Mom and Dad maybe and Abrades for something that can also hit players. Deck got a lot of attention for being "A skred without snow covered lands?" and a number of solid gamebreakers on the table everygame (had Chalice on 0, 1, 2, Bridge, Chandra and Koth one game" - is it too many threats too deal with mate?)
Best moment of the evening - against Dredge - having Bridge and Chandra, dropping Moon, ticking Chandra and revealing Grafdiggers Cage "I will play that, thank you very much". Pass the turn, opp reveals Maelstrom Pulse he had for Bridge, pointing all the threats I have, grabbing his head and mumbling "now what?"
Mistakes were made - I won't deny it. Especially in terms of Chalice and Metamorph but the deck is very powerful and really fun to play. BTW Metamorph is amazing. It is a response you should keep when they play something stupid like Angler, Tasigur or even Clique. It catches them off guard "wow" and buys you a turn or two to settle your pieces on the board without being hit by the 4-5 power threat.
EDIT: So yes. I am happy with the above setup. I will however try to replace the aforementioned cards:
- Abrade - I like cards with free choice, hitting any creature with 3 instantly or a shatter effect is good. However Affinity seems to be in decline and if you look around you will realize the only artifacts are played in Tron and they are often sacrificed in response. Few times last night I wished I had something which can hit also players. Grixis player balanced twice on 4 life KNOWING that even if I had bolt in my hand he is safe. Well how about the next time I get Exquisite Firecraft or Collective Defiance? That extra mana is rarely a problem.
- Siege Gang - came on twice when I was already ruling in the game. Not much of an impact when he comes for his price. Will stick with Nalaar parents for now.
The Clan grows larger, and I'm pleased to hear Amok's voice again.
There's so much chatter! Alongside Jeskai Tempo (and to a lesser extent, Blitzkrieg), we are posting up ideas more furiously than any other deck in MTGsalvation "Deck Development". Which one of us will graduate to "Developing Competitive" first? I made some notes on previous posts, so I'll only address their offerings today. But...But...But, Menfrick?! What is this strange alchemy he doth wield? Wilding magic! Untaidake, the cloud keeper. Wow. Again, I gotta find some time to wrap my melon around what you're throwing down there. Again, Amok: double-shoulder grab & backslaps. Novel construction. And, I see that your deck, like others, is starting to skew towards a high-ramp/comforatable late game dynamic. Gone are the days of Infect & turbo-swarm. We are wise to take note & "Sideboard" accordingly.
@TimTam: You opened your post with making mention of Welding Jar. It's offers insurance on the Bridge. I too have studied the option. But, ultimately returned to Spellskite. It's back my SB as a 1-of. Perhaps no other card could list out more permutations of applications on defense, so I'll leave the reasoning unsaid & understood by all. Mostly? Kolaghan's Command & G/W/x sideboard cards that involve targeted artifact/enchantment kill. And, it swaps in as a dragon's claw/sun droplet replacement.
Also - I see you're using (3) Eidolon of the great revel in your sideboard. Very interesting. Someone else commented on my usage, and said it would have to be done in multiples. You mentioned that you bring it in against Elves/GrixisD-S/Burn...really? You rattled off a lot of decks, so I'm not holding strong and fast to the statements, but just spitballin': Elves is about hunkering down and slowly rolling out all defenses for a late game win, so seems off here. GDS: is a big question mark for me & I asked about this usage before. OK. And, Burn! Deliiiicccious. Take the boots to burn with their own Vibrams.
@Proxy: Our decks are extraordinarily similar, compadré - only 1 card different. I've followed your lead on upping to a (4) count on both Chandra, Torch of Defiance & Gemstone Caverns. In concert, this decision makes sense. Like so much of the deck, the redundancy is the consistency. So rather than your 2nd Koth in main deck, I have a single Sweltering Suns as a swing card rather than 6 planeswalkers. But, you know what I keep considering in that slot? Crystal Ball.
I came in 5th in a 50-person tourney with a single Crystal Ball in the main, and I recall the orb rifling through the deck in search of the right answer. With decks shifting towards a more late-game friendly environment (this is most significantly illustrated by the recent rise of U/B Control), maybe this outlier card is a consideration?? I've written: "Ball is slow and doesn't affect the immediate game state. But, it is the undisputed king of digging deep. Consider that you can dig 5-cards deep upon casting: once on your turn and again on your upkeep. No other red/artifact card can offer this assistance."
The use of a single sweltering suns is flexible and allows for a critical sideboard slot allowance: I can go from 3 anger of the gods to 2 anger. What I don't like is that my sideboard is dwindling on wincon density. I have lost my faith in god. Does Hazoret the fervent need to come back into my life? Are you there, Hazoret? It's me, Raystack.
Finally, it's been some weeks since I put up my deck, and there have been some evolutions in the sideboarding. It's more responsive to the types of cards coming in from an opponent's sideboard - that's some next level shart. Where I really feel I turned the corner is in handling G/W/x.
OUT: Anger of the gods, Hazoret the fervent, Eidolon of the great revel, Sun droplet, Phyrexian revoker IN: Relic of progenitus, pithing needle, witchbane orb, spellskite, koth of the hammer
Attached to this post, you'll see a pic of Hammer's Slammer laid out. For those who are igneous-curious, splay it out in a perfect 7 pile shuffle and goldfish. And, then consider the ghostly opponents before you. How should you develop your hand?
@Raystack I feel like if I want to get some protection for the Bridge either Spellskite or Metamorph would be the way to go. Metamorph makes me real excited, had not considered that card yet.
Also the Eidolons can come down turn 1 off Caverns or SSG, against Elves they usually keep land light hands and rely on dumping dudes on the board to generate mana. Eidolon is bigger than most of their dudes and keeps their spell count low each turn which is great for us! We get more time to find another copy, a Bridge, an Anger, Chalice. If you're skeptical I understand, I didn't think it would come in as often as it does, but I probably sideboard it in more often than any other card in my SB. Also against GDS it stops them from running through cantrips and hand disruption pretty well. I have had games against them where 1 Eidolon has dealt 10 points of damage on its own, through combat and its ability, and coupled with the self inflicted damage on the Death Shadow player's side that's a kill. I wouldn't play 4 copies but 2 feels like I don't see it enough.
I do have a question, why are you on the Magus of the Moon plan? I understand the effect sometimes being the only way out of a matchup but in my experience it has been way too fragile to ever stick for more than a turn.
EDIT: Also with Storm, GSD, Tron and RG Breach being the most popular archetypes right now I can easily see this deck taking down whatever Modern event SCG hosts this weekend.
Long time lurker, first time poster with an actual list and some results. Before this deck I played Affinity and elves for a year, then left magic for a year to start my small business and then came back to Skred for 6 months. From my testing with Skred, I fell in love with Hazoret. Turns out if she avoids thoughtsieze and path, she just wins every game (seriously). Most of my modern opponents pick her up, read her and groan because there's not many easy ways to remove her. After reading through this entire thread I was confused as to why none of you weren't just jamming her main. Our lock combo is sweet, but so is a chalice into turn 3 Hazoret, without an easy way to kill her. She acts as bridges 5/6 and yet another way to close the damn game even sitting behind bridges. Extra tormenting voice in your hand? No prob bob. Top deck war? Hazoret to the rescue.
Despite my time with Skred, I had a poor showing at ThursdayNM, going 2-2.
R1 - Bant Eldrazi - Long story short, drew 12 lands game three.... no Chandra or any threat until I died. This has been a constant problem in testing. Sit behind lock pieces and literally draw nothing until they find a way out... I'm a bit salty.
1-2 L
R2 - G/W Value - My buddy is on this list (he got paired down) and he was on a variant with Fauna Shaman, which meant he knew how to beat me and what bullets to retrieve. I mean we literally practice weekly, so he knows how to win, and that generally involves Bird+Rhonas.
1-2 L
R3 - 8 Rack - Easy lock pieces into two easy wins, not much to say.
2-0 W
R4 - Burn - Easy lock pieces into two easy wins, not much to say.
2-0 W
I have not had reps with the list and it showed. I lacked experience and knowledge of when to ship a bad hand. Keep in mind the list is what I altered the list to after the tourney. The main differences being, magus sideboard, 1 less land and more utility spells overall.
Keep in mind my sideboard is up in the air at this point, but the mainboard is pretty set. Why are so many of you on a bad card - stop playing Pia and Kiran, we are not Skred, and even in that deck the card was worthless. They are yet another way to stall, which is 70% of our deck already. I don't want to harp too much on Pia and Kiran, but after you drop the Nalaars and the opponent goes on to combo out completely ignoring the *****ty card, I can only take so much. Same goes for Magus of the Moon, seems like a lock piece that should be in the sideboard, not clogging up our game plan. From my testing I keep noticing, we eventually just need to pivot and kill our opponent.
With 22 lands I felt the flood happened too often, and with the 3/1 Chandra, Koth split, I found I often just never drew anything that actually closed the game. In this current build all of our threats work with or without our lock. Skred taught me that disrupting the opponent is important, but as a sort of tempo play, not a full control play. Modern has too many ways to get out of locks between artifact hate and alternate win conditions. In many cases, the lock wins, but the lock isn't 100% guaranteed.
I want the deck to play like Eldrazi Tron, set up a lock piece (which serves as disruption) then slam a win-con and well... win. I feel the current lists floating around this forum do not maximize the use of chalice. We love to hide behind bridge, but chalice is just as amazing. Chalice + Rabble//Hazoret basically wins the game in most cases. To include more ways to maximize the chalice ensures its just as effective as the other two pieces of lockdown. Also, a super fun combo I used in Skred, which works well here is Koth minus + Hazoret, as it is a fast way to empty our hand and present two threats at the same time. With bolt out of the meta, Koth minus is in a better position than we give it credit for.
If any of you find it frustrating that we are so threat light, this may be the variant for you. 12 lock pieces//12 threats. Or if I'm talking out of my ass, call me out, I'm an open-minded individual looking to take some criticism so I can get more wins. Looking forward to more posts, and more reps.
Same goes for Magus of the Moon, seems like a lock piece that should be in the sideboard, not clogging up our game plan. From my testing I keep noticing, we eventually just need to pivot and kill our opponent.
and...
Quote from PaleGloveSyndrome » »
Skred taught me that disrupting the opponent is important, but as a sort of tempo play, not a full control play.
did you just answer your own question on why we use Magus?
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-2- Lands/Rituals: I'm holding strong at 21 land and 9 rituals with 3 gemstone caverns. Sometimes, I question the randomzier in Cockatrice, but statistically, I feel confident with these numbers - especially with our hand grooming spells. Sidenote: pleased to hear that Sorz is going to join the G-Cavern gang: with (3) Caverns, the odds of you starting with (2) lands in play is 1-in-6. I think?? Mathing isn't my specialty.
Remember when facing U/W control or R/W control, it's wise to take out a couple of rituals, and bring in additional win conditions from your sideboard. Do not fall into the traditional trap of loading up your 15 with typical sideboard 'answer' cards. We are a Sideboard Deck already! Be aggressive on your sideboarding strategies by implementing threat diversity & density.
This is a critical differential between us and Sun and Moon. They win off of Planeswalkers or Emrakul, and in games 2-3? They still win off of planeswalkers or Emrakul. So much of their spell selection is 'answer' cards. I'd rather present a problem, and hope my opponent doesn't have the answer than hold an answer and hope my opponent draws a corresponding threat.
-3- Hellfire and Brimstone: Up Close and Personal with Mizzium Mortars
First, it's more popular alternative: Abrade. I still struggle with why we would play this card with the sole exception of Affinity. Sorz talked about how he probably is moving away from his singleton after his Top 8 finish. Break down the application of Abrade versus Mizzium Mortars. Affinity aside, it's not even close. Abrade will help against Lantern (yawn, we crush it) and Blue/Tron (wicked outlier deck) & it has to be appreciated that abrade is an instant. Mortars is only a sorcery. However the 1-sided sweep potential can be game ending.
Picture it this way, what if Anger of the Gods / Sweltering Suns were slightly altered in costs and offered 2 modalities. They could cost R1 and hit with a shock/bolt OR they cost RR2 and could sweep for shock/bolt level damage. Would you consider using this spell? Well, that's what Mizzium Mortars offers, except it costs more on an 'overload' and hits for more damage. This kills:
Speaking of Hazoret the Fervent, Proxxy mentioned that he is going to be testing our colors' original Glass....errrr Stone Cannon: Goblin Charbelcher. Hey - when you're a mono-color control deck, it's wise to look under every rock for win conditions, cuz we ain't got many. Charbelcher was tested here and there. It's hokey, but can be a turn 2 win Ultimately it was cast aside by our one and only god: Hazoret. She costs the same and - in true god fashion - she offers more stability in our lives. Today is Sunday after all....Got Hazoret? Oh Gawd, I didn't just write that.
I wrote that phrase once in an earlier post, and it just keeps clanging around in my melon...Totality and Search. It was written as a rebuke to the concept of 1-for-1 removal/response. Pyro Prison succeeds because its doctrine is the antithesis of that mechanic. I talked about how the king of 1-for-1 is the Jund, and Jund is nowhere to be seen these days. Other decks, like U/W or W/R Control rely upon sweepers, but I grimace at the thought of their maindeck inclusion. What if I'm facing creatureless or creature-light opponents? Now, some would argue that Ensnaring Bridge is a sweeper. If so, it is 1-sided by design and it's a wrath of god in perpetuity. read: my creatures live & keep coming
Consider the main deck stabilizers of W/R Sun and Moon: Banishing Light Journey to Nowhere Blessed Alliance Lightning Helix Anger of the Gods Wrath of God. And, in the sideboard, you generally find no spears...just more shields.
For us, the beauty is in the simplicity. I've gotta somehow incorporate the ethos of Totality and Search into our Official Primer.
Totality: Ensnaring Bridge, Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Chalice of the Void, Sweltering Suns
Search: Tormenting Voice, Magma Jet, Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Mana Advantage: (9) Rituals, (3) Gemstone Caverns, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, and Koth of the Hammer
The Snarl: Goblin Rabblemaster & Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Koth of the Hammer
3 Magma Jet
3 Magus of the Moon
18 Mountain
1 Mutavault
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Pia Nalaar
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Sweltering Suns
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Dragon's Claw
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Shattering Spree
2 Spellskite
1 Witchbane Orb
I hope you can give me some tips or anything else you feel could help me obtain maximum efficiency. Thanks!!
All of these percentages are assuming we're on the play. Let's start with lands; we want 4 by turn 4. With 21, this will happen 48% of the time, and 53% with 22.
With 8 Rituals, we'll have at least 3 mana on turn 2 70% of the time, and 75% with 9.
59% of the time we'll have a Blood Moon in hand by turn 2, while we'll have a Chalice or Bridge 44%.
With 3 Chandras, we'll have exactly 1 by turn 4 35% of the time, while with 4 she'll be there 40%, with multiples showing up at 6% and 12% respectively.
With 2 Gemstone Caverns, obviously on the draw, we'll have one 23% of the time, while with 3 it jumps to 31%. I'll be moving to 3.
The discussion of removal is a bit trickier. The argument regarding 1-for-1 removal, for me, is all about post-board, because we have no room for them in the main. A few matchups come to mind, but for this example, let's look at Vizier Druid. Without a removal spell, they can combo off on turn 3, and while they only have 4 copies of each creature, they have CoCo and/or tutors to help find them. Here are our chances of finding at least 1 castable removal spell by turn 2 on the draw;
With 2- 27%
With 3- 39%
With 4- 48%
With 5- 56%
(This is why I've gone to 3 Magma Jet with 2 Abrade in the side, but I'll be switching 1 out for Mortars)
I hope these numbers help make some decisions easier for you guys, or at least help affirm your choices! Keep grindin, 'folk!
"Carving out your piece of the online market."
@PaleGloveSyndrome: With mono-red experience, I'm sure you have some knowledge to share, and the best part is that you can still recycle your snow-covered mountains in a misdirection play. As for learning our craft, I run my Pyro Prison deck on Cockatrice almost nightly, and I'm still developing tactically. Beginners Tip for you: Be more aggressive with your lock attempts than what might seem reasonable - overextend.
@PhilliesPhan: Pumped to hear that you're throwing rocks around your FNM with repeated wins. The outlier card in your construction is clearly Pia Nalaar. Interesting. I did pull down a 5th place finish in a 1K this January with a single Mom in my deck. But, haven't used her since.
She is damage, and I keep preaching about our need for more wincons. Related to that word choice - preaching - Koth almighty, Caligula! I'm no Pastor...You and your colorful metaphors Jeebus. Nevertheless, uncanny breakdown on the statistics! The one element not addressed explicitly in your analysis is the Mulligan. I mulligan nearly 50% of the time. So, it's 2 chances, with a scry, to find the right mix of the prison suite or turbo-goblin attack.
As for evaluating Pia Nalaar: Her assets are...complicated. Let's compare her to other options mentioned: On one hand, she offers the attacking clock which complements Goblin Rabblemaster at a 3 cmc. Recently, I posited Phyrexian Metamorph as a similar option - the 5th Rabblemaster (but it wasn't consistent enough). Momma Says: Pia doesn't need a cloning target.
I also pondered my pet card, Kargan Dragonlord, as an over the top mother-rager. But, it's totally incongruous with Ensnaring Bridge. Momma Says: Pia flies through and pumps post attack on a bridge.
I liked her firebreathing ability, but there weren't enough targets with just the one thopter that she spits out. Momma Says: Just play my husband pairing too - oh, and another one of me in your deck, so that provides plenty o' targets.
....wait a minute.
To the Archives! I already wrote up some thoughts on Mama Pyro - which are far more succinct than my babble above...
From January 27th, 2017 - Raystack wrote:
Also, instead of a 2nd Piran: Octopusman mentioned Pia Nalaar a couple times on this thread. Initially, I dismissed the regal lady, as a lesser version of the partnered pair: Pia and Kiran Nalaar. But, then again.....
17 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Desperate Ritual
2 Pyretic Ritual
2 Magma Jet
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
SB
3 Dragon's Claw
2 Defense Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Shattering Spree
2 Molten Rain
MD preferences - 6 Rituals, 4 SSGs and the Gemstone Caverns allow for consistently more explosive turn 1 and turn 2 plays. This last week I had 2 games at FNM go as such... Turn 1 Mountain, SSG, Ritual, Ritual into Chandra, tick up, drop Chalice on 1. Opponent conceded before playing a spell. And 1 other game go Turn 1, Gemstone, Mountain, SSG, Ritual into Chandra, tick up, cast another Ritual into Ensnaring Bridge, emptying my hand. Obviously this wont happen every game nor a reasonable amount of it but it does lead to some wins I would otherwise not have earned. Jaya Ballard is something I'm not really proud of, she is weak and easily killable but there are some games where repeated removal or burn does give enough leverage to close a game out.
SB choices - Defense Grid is my favorite answer to UW Control, Jeskai and UB Faeries. Pretty solid choice and sometimes drops turn 1 off a Caverns or SSG. Cage is a necessary evil for me, lots of Goryo's, Storm and various CoCo decks make this an easy choice. 2 may be incorrect but I hate cutting cards. Eidolon is the best SB card. Most game 2's and 3'd end up revolving around me sitting behind an Eidolon and controlling the game until a walker or creature can end the game. Also some of our bad matchups are decks that just want to drop their hands, Eidolon is as good as Chalice and Moon in terms of hate sometimes. Affinity, Storm, Elves, Lantern, Grixis Shadow and Burn are risky matchups that get much easier to win post SB. Molten Rain is the only SB card I'm currently on the fence about but I need something to SB in against Eldrazi, there just isn't much we can do to stop them aside from sit behind a Bridge. However the whole Walking Ballista, Endbringer and Collar backup plan is good against us, maybe Harsh Mentor instead? Yeah, Ill probs sb some Mentors and take out the Rains for my next FNM.
I feel like we don't need more win conditions in the SB, Avaricious Dragon, Sin Prodder, Quicksmith Rebel, all okay but I feel a waste of a sb slot. Wizards will hopefully keep spoiling us with good big red spells in the coming sets. Also if Chalice or Bridge get reprints I feel like we will see more people on this type of deck, lots of players locally are impressed with my 75 and my win rate but cant build it due to prices. I recommended to them to build Skred first and then pick up Chalices and move to this but that's all easier said than done.
Personally, hoping to pick up some of the new Un-set's basic mountains, unf, gonna look fresh AF.
EDIT: Just realized Damping Matrix is exactly what I need to stop Eldrazi from hitting us from under a lock. Also, Eidolon info.
RG BBE Ponza
UX Eldrazi Tron
UR Jace Breach
Another issue I had was a lack of protection. Yes, we have access to Chalice of the Void and Ensnaring Bridge, but you have to draw them and in some situations their effect is not as...binding as I would hope for. So, this brings me to filtering/drawing and board wipes as mandatory slots. The nice thing is that we have some nifty options when it comes to both filtering/drawing/board wipes all in one card.
Lastly, is it a mistake to go second most if not all the time to gamble off drawing a Gemstone Caverns?
Here are my changes to the deck:
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
SUPPORT: 28
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Blood Moon
4x Sweltering Suns
4x Scouring Sands
4x Magma Jet
4x Spark Jolt
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Gemstone Caverns
16x Mountain
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
Spark Jolt.....Scouring Sands.....and no creatures.....what is this madness, prodigal son! (8) heretofore unknown commoners that ping for 1 and scry for 1 - all in the maindeck?
And, where's our namesake for Hammer's Slammer? No Koth of the Hammer is saddening. Actually, I've most recently added an additional Koth to my 75: 1 MD & 1 SB. I think he's more impactful as a bring-in than Hazoret the Fervent. Lastly, I see you've moved away from Red Sun's Zenith and Goblin Charbelcher, so that is something we can agree upon. Proxxy was the last to try the stone cannon, but haven't heard of any positive results.
@Timtamthebadman96: Proud to have you join the fire! Insightful write-up with a lot of good evaluations due to your extensive testing over the last 1/2 year. When I get more time, I'll address them. As for your final query, I suggest: Witchbane Orb in the sideboard as a 2-of. It protects us and our planeswalkers from Endbringer and Walking Ballista . Additionally Orb is terrific against Burn, Scapeshift, Lantern, Storm, and so much more.....
What I liked best about your post was your prediction and feedback from your LGS: "I feel like we will see more people on this type of deck, lots of players locally are impressed with my 75 and my win rate but cant build it due to prices."
As for formatting for card hyperlinks, you can simply highlight the word and then click the magic card in the tool bar above OR type in [card$] before the card and [/card$] after the card -- but don't include the money sign.
As for the Pyro Prison changes, I reasoned I'm not going to have a rock star hand every time and I need something to tame the wilds of the field. Modern is 50% aggro right now. And I have to say the new cards are doing the job well. Since the changes, it has been nothing but win. #nosideboardeither
I guess it comes down to mindsets in that I'm at odds with a true control deck that pioneers traditional creatures. If we were sporting say Aetherling I would be all for it, but he is not red. The second contention I have is popping our lock to then go toe-to-toe with the opponent on the field. It is odd to me. If I'm going to stop my opponent from playing magic I'm going to kill him via unconventional means i.e. Chandra. But, I can get behind Koth and Hazoret because they kill by unconventional means. (Note, Hazoret is quite similar to Charbelcher.) I personally want eight kill cards. I have four right now. So, something has to give. As of right now, I see far more need for Crystal Ball than kill conditions as every match post change has resulted in a win...a very...slow and painful win...did I say slow?
On a side note I'm pissed off most websites are out of foils. These damn buy outs should not be happening! Does anyone know how much a foil masterpiece Blood Moon and Chalice of the Void costs? A USD metric ***** ton is how much a set costs and I can't get them because they are sold out. Does anyone feel my first world problems! LOL
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
RG BBE Ponza
UX Eldrazi Tron
UR Jace Breach
I seem to have disturbed the force with my take on Pyro Prison. Even though I have positive results and continue to lead wins over losses I will find Raystacks last posted version of Pyro Prison and give the ground pounders a chance.
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Koth of the Hammer
CREATURES: 8
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Magus of the Moon
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Blood Moon
1x Sweltering Suns
2x Magma Jet
3x Tormenting Voice
1x Pyretic Ritual
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Mutavault
3x Gemstone Caverns
17x Mountain
Koth of the Hammer: Why not? I have never made much use out of Koth, because typically I rather play anything before him or use him to attract counter bait. But, Koth is another win condition. I will add one copy.
Tormenting Voice: Let me count the ways why I dislike this card. Note, I had used it before in my earlier version of Pyro Prison. So, this is the second time I have given it a chance, but the results were the same. Here are a few reasons why I removed it. One, if it is countered it is a double loss, which occurred once in testing and MTGO has a strong showing of blue. Two, I am forced to discard a card and sometimes I do not want to discard any cards. Three, it is a dead card when top decked with no cards in hand, which happened to me. In that same instance now bizarre instance, I was trying to hide behind a Bridge, but because I had that one card in my hand they were able to swing for game. It is a very rare situation, but it happened. I removed all copies.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: She did not make the cut. I did play her, but if I needed to remove a card she was the first to go or the last to be played. Pia is costly with little return in investment. Now, as a sideboard option she could be useful when dealing with Stoney Silence. But, that is just it, Pia is a sideboard option. I removed all copies.
Magus of the Moon: He never appeared, but I clearly see his use. I will consider him for future use.
Here are my changes to the deck after my testing with ground pounders.
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Koth of the Hammer
CREATURES: 4
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
SUPPORT: 23
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Blood Moon
3x Scouring Sands
4x Magma Jet
4x Spark Jolt
3x Desperate Ritual
3x Pyretic Ritual
3x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Gemstone Caverns
16x Mountain
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Sweltering Suns
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
2:0 against Skred - no counters, no discard, his hand full of uselless Moons, me slamming Chandra then Metamorphing into his Stormbreath to keep him at bay, then Bridge. G2 early Bridge then planeswalkers, keeping at bay his Eternal Scourges
2:0 against UR Through the Breach - g1 I let him Remand the Rabblemaster to slam Moon and then slowly proceed, I Abrade his Clique, slam Master, slam Siege Gang, slam Metamorph, he draws lands only - g2 I bait him with early Master, but he has no counters for it. Burns it my turn, I land a Chalice and it is uphill from there
2:1 against Dredge - g1 we mull to 5 and play nothing for four turns, I eventually drop Bridge and Chandra hides behind it. g2 - he draws Grudge a turn before Chandras ultimate to destroy my Bridge and goes for lethal. g3 - Chalice for 1, Bridge, Moon (he reveals a Maelstrom Pulse he just drew to destroy my Bridge, luckily no access to neither B or G under Moon just REEED, Hazoret GG
1:2 against Grixis Shadow - g1 no discard, I land Chalice on t2, he manages to play Tasigur but I copy it with Metamorph keeping him at bay....g2 he manages to go under chalice 1 and 2 to drop angler and I keep drawing lands and rituals. g3 I keep drawing planeswalkers but die to two huge shadows.
Overall happy with the configuration - Metamorph and Hazoret are awesome. I will probably be swapping Siege Gang for Mom and Dad maybe and Abrades for something that can also hit players. Deck got a lot of attention for being "A skred without snow covered lands?" and a number of solid gamebreakers on the table everygame (had Chalice on 0, 1, 2, Bridge, Chandra and Koth one game" - is it too many threats too deal with mate?)
Best moment of the evening - against Dredge - having Bridge and Chandra, dropping Moon, ticking Chandra and revealing Grafdiggers Cage "I will play that, thank you very much". Pass the turn, opp reveals Maelstrom Pulse he had for Bridge, pointing all the threats I have, grabbing his head and mumbling "now what?"
Mistakes were made - I won't deny it. Especially in terms of Chalice and Metamorph but the deck is very powerful and really fun to play. BTW Metamorph is amazing. It is a response you should keep when they play something stupid like Angler, Tasigur or even Clique. It catches them off guard "wow" and buys you a turn or two to settle your pieces on the board without being hit by the 4-5 power threat.
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Siege Gang Commander
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Magus of the Moon
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
4 Blood Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pyretic Ritual
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Tormenting Voice
3 Abrade
2 Gemstone Caverns
18 Mountain
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Dragon's Claw
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Shattering Spree
1 Spellskite
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Jaya Ballard Task Mage
1 Boil
1 Gemstone Caverns
EDIT: So yes. I am happy with the above setup. I will however try to replace the aforementioned cards:
- Abrade - I like cards with free choice, hitting any creature with 3 instantly or a shatter effect is good. However Affinity seems to be in decline and if you look around you will realize the only artifacts are played in Tron and they are often sacrificed in response. Few times last night I wished I had something which can hit also players. Grixis player balanced twice on 4 life KNOWING that even if I had bolt in my hand he is safe. Well how about the next time I get Exquisite Firecraft or Collective Defiance? That extra mana is rarely a problem.
- Siege Gang - came on twice when I was already ruling in the game. Not much of an impact when he comes for his price. Will stick with Nalaar parents for now.
There's so much chatter! Alongside Jeskai Tempo (and to a lesser extent, Blitzkrieg), we are posting up ideas more furiously than any other deck in MTGsalvation "Deck Development". Which one of us will graduate to "Developing Competitive" first? I made some notes on previous posts, so I'll only address their offerings today. But...But...But, Menfrick?! What is this strange alchemy he doth wield? Wilding magic! Untaidake, the cloud keeper. Wow. Again, I gotta find some time to wrap my melon around what you're throwing down there. Again, Amok: double-shoulder grab & backslaps. Novel construction. And, I see that your deck, like others, is starting to skew towards a high-ramp/comforatable late game dynamic. Gone are the days of Infect & turbo-swarm. We are wise to take note & "Sideboard" accordingly.
@TimTam: You opened your post with making mention of Welding Jar. It's offers insurance on the Bridge. I too have studied the option. But, ultimately returned to Spellskite. It's back my SB as a 1-of. Perhaps no other card could list out more permutations of applications on defense, so I'll leave the reasoning unsaid & understood by all. Mostly? Kolaghan's Command & G/W/x sideboard cards that involve targeted artifact/enchantment kill. And, it swaps in as a dragon's claw/sun droplet replacement.
Also - I see you're using (3) Eidolon of the great revel in your sideboard. Very interesting. Someone else commented on my usage, and said it would have to be done in multiples. You mentioned that you bring it in against Elves/GrixisD-S/Burn...really? You rattled off a lot of decks, so I'm not holding strong and fast to the statements, but just spitballin': Elves is about hunkering down and slowly rolling out all defenses for a late game win, so seems off here. GDS: is a big question mark for me & I asked about this usage before. OK. And, Burn! Deliiiicccious. Take the boots to burn with their own Vibrams.
@Proxy: Our decks are extraordinarily similar, compadré - only 1 card different. I've followed your lead on upping to a (4) count on both Chandra, Torch of Defiance & Gemstone Caverns. In concert, this decision makes sense. Like so much of the deck, the redundancy is the consistency. So rather than your 2nd Koth in main deck, I have a single Sweltering Suns as a swing card rather than 6 planeswalkers. But, you know what I keep considering in that slot? Crystal Ball.
I came in 5th in a 50-person tourney with a single Crystal Ball in the main, and I recall the orb rifling through the deck in search of the right answer. With decks shifting towards a more late-game friendly environment (this is most significantly illustrated by the recent rise of U/B Control), maybe this outlier card is a consideration?? I've written: "Ball is slow and doesn't affect the immediate game state. But, it is the undisputed king of digging deep. Consider that you can dig 5-cards deep upon casting: once on your turn and again on your upkeep. No other red/artifact card can offer this assistance."
The use of a single sweltering suns is flexible and allows for a critical sideboard slot allowance: I can go from 3 anger of the gods to 2 anger. What I don't like is that my sideboard is dwindling on wincon density. I have lost my faith in god. Does Hazoret the fervent need to come back into my life? Are you there, Hazoret? It's me, Raystack.
Finally, it's been some weeks since I put up my deck, and there have been some evolutions in the sideboarding. It's more responsive to the types of cards coming in from an opponent's sideboard - that's some next level shart. Where I really feel I turned the corner is in handling G/W/x.
OUT: Anger of the gods, Hazoret the fervent, Eidolon of the great revel, Sun droplet, Phyrexian revoker
IN: Relic of progenitus, pithing needle, witchbane orb, spellskite, koth of the hammer
Current Deck
Creatures (8)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Accelerators (11)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
2 Tormenting Voice
Enchantments (4)
4 Blood Moon
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
Artifacts (8)
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
Disruption (3)
2 Magma Jet
1 Sweltering Suns
Lands (21)
17 Mountains
4 Gemstone Caverns
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Shattering Spree
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spellskite
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Torpor Orb
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Koth of the Hammer
Attached to this post, you'll see a pic of Hammer's Slammer laid out. For those who are igneous-curious, splay it out in a perfect 7 pile shuffle and goldfish. And, then consider the ghostly opponents before you. How should you develop your hand?
Also the Eidolons can come down turn 1 off Caverns or SSG, against Elves they usually keep land light hands and rely on dumping dudes on the board to generate mana. Eidolon is bigger than most of their dudes and keeps their spell count low each turn which is great for us! We get more time to find another copy, a Bridge, an Anger, Chalice. If you're skeptical I understand, I didn't think it would come in as often as it does, but I probably sideboard it in more often than any other card in my SB. Also against GDS it stops them from running through cantrips and hand disruption pretty well. I have had games against them where 1 Eidolon has dealt 10 points of damage on its own, through combat and its ability, and coupled with the self inflicted damage on the Death Shadow player's side that's a kill. I wouldn't play 4 copies but 2 feels like I don't see it enough.
I do have a question, why are you on the Magus of the Moon plan? I understand the effect sometimes being the only way out of a matchup but in my experience it has been way too fragile to ever stick for more than a turn.
EDIT: Also with Storm, GSD, Tron and RG Breach being the most popular archetypes right now I can easily see this deck taking down whatever Modern event SCG hosts this weekend.
RG BBE Ponza
UX Eldrazi Tron
UR Jace Breach
Long time lurker, first time poster with an actual list and some results. Before this deck I played Affinity and elves for a year, then left magic for a year to start my small business and then came back to Skred for 6 months. From my testing with Skred, I fell in love with Hazoret. Turns out if she avoids thoughtsieze and path, she just wins every game (seriously). Most of my modern opponents pick her up, read her and groan because there's not many easy ways to remove her. After reading through this entire thread I was confused as to why none of you weren't just jamming her main. Our lock combo is sweet, but so is a chalice into turn 3 Hazoret, without an easy way to kill her. She acts as bridges 5/6 and yet another way to close the damn game even sitting behind bridges. Extra tormenting voice in your hand? No prob bob. Top deck war? Hazoret to the rescue.
Despite my time with Skred, I had a poor showing at ThursdayNM, going 2-2.
R1 - Bant Eldrazi - Long story short, drew 12 lands game three.... no Chandra or any threat until I died. This has been a constant problem in testing. Sit behind lock pieces and literally draw nothing until they find a way out... I'm a bit salty.
1-2 L
R2 - G/W Value - My buddy is on this list (he got paired down) and he was on a variant with Fauna Shaman, which meant he knew how to beat me and what bullets to retrieve. I mean we literally practice weekly, so he knows how to win, and that generally involves Bird+Rhonas.
1-2 L
R3 - 8 Rack - Easy lock pieces into two easy wins, not much to say.
2-0 W
R4 - Burn - Easy lock pieces into two easy wins, not much to say.
2-0 W
I have not had reps with the list and it showed. I lacked experience and knowledge of when to ship a bad hand. Keep in mind the list is what I altered the list to after the tourney. The main differences being, magus sideboard, 1 less land and more utility spells overall.
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
Lock Pieces(12)
4 Blood Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
Threats (12)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Tormenting Voice
2 Magma Jet
2 Sweltering Suns
Lands (21)
18 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Gemstone Cavern
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Defense Grid
2 Abrade
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Witchbane Orb
1 By Force
1 Damping Matrix
2 Spellskite
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Keep in mind my sideboard is up in the air at this point, but the mainboard is pretty set. Why are so many of you on a bad card - stop playing Pia and Kiran, we are not Skred, and even in that deck the card was worthless. They are yet another way to stall, which is 70% of our deck already. I don't want to harp too much on Pia and Kiran, but after you drop the Nalaars and the opponent goes on to combo out completely ignoring the *****ty card, I can only take so much. Same goes for Magus of the Moon, seems like a lock piece that should be in the sideboard, not clogging up our game plan. From my testing I keep noticing, we eventually just need to pivot and kill our opponent.
With 22 lands I felt the flood happened too often, and with the 3/1 Chandra, Koth split, I found I often just never drew anything that actually closed the game. In this current build all of our threats work with or without our lock. Skred taught me that disrupting the opponent is important, but as a sort of tempo play, not a full control play. Modern has too many ways to get out of locks between artifact hate and alternate win conditions. In many cases, the lock wins, but the lock isn't 100% guaranteed.
I want the deck to play like Eldrazi Tron, set up a lock piece (which serves as disruption) then slam a win-con and well... win. I feel the current lists floating around this forum do not maximize the use of chalice. We love to hide behind bridge, but chalice is just as amazing. Chalice + Rabble//Hazoret basically wins the game in most cases. To include more ways to maximize the chalice ensures its just as effective as the other two pieces of lockdown. Also, a super fun combo I used in Skred, which works well here is Koth minus + Hazoret, as it is a fast way to empty our hand and present two threats at the same time. With bolt out of the meta, Koth minus is in a better position than we give it credit for.
If any of you find it frustrating that we are so threat light, this may be the variant for you. 12 lock pieces//12 threats. Or if I'm talking out of my ass, call me out, I'm an open-minded individual looking to take some criticism so I can get more wins. Looking forward to more posts, and more reps.
"Carving out your piece of the online market."
and...
did you just answer your own question on why we use Magus?