Pox has been a long time favorite deck of mine - nothing exemplifies the merits of black more than pox control. I have tried mono black pox builds in modern before, but they didn't really pan out. I looked at Raphael Levy's Loam Pox Deck as well as the more traditional modern build in B/W Smallpox Control for inspiration. While these builds are interesting in their own way, neither really jumps out as a "pox deck" to me. They have some nice interactions, but the spirit of pox is minimal - I think we can do better.
let's build a better plague...
About a year ago I built a R/B pox deck around blood moon and land destruction which was fun, but it was not as competitive as I was hoping. Recently I revisited a card I have always wanted to make use of: Spreading Algae. From this initial consideration, a well of ideas started pouring in and I decided to work on a Jund Prison Pox Deck. This deck is still in its infancy, and much testing and optimization needs to be done, but initial games have been very positive and I finally feel like I am playing pox in modern. Anyone who is interested in trying the deck, or has ideas - please post them below! I am sure there isn't just one way to do this either - all rogue pox brews are welcome!
-This matchup might just be unwinnable if my Land Destruction plan doesn't catch them off guard - these cards all hate my deck. So far, I figure that surgical extraction on kitchen finks/ Lingering Souls and terminate on larger creatures that may get cheated into play will help a bit post SB.
-Game one their ability to generate sufficient mana without needing lands could hurt my gameplan, but hopefully my maindeck removal suite can offset that. Post board I think the game will probably be in my favor.
Any other advice people can provide on these matchups and/or others I am not targeting here that could be a problem would be most helpful!
Other things:
I had the thought that surgical extraction could be a good card for removing non-basic lands from certain decks to further mana-screw them. I am not sure if this is something I would want to do, or what matchups this would help the most in. Decks like tron I feel will be easy enough to not need the extra exiling.
Molten Vortex has been very good in testing, but I am not sure if 1, or 2 copies is right. If I go to 2 copies, I think I need to cut a lightning bolt or a crack the earth.
Spreading Algae is such a strong card in this deck, I find myself wanting to take it to 4. Its interactions with crack the earth and Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth are amazing, and it's taxing effect is stellar. I keep adding one and removing other things to make room, but I just don't think there is room for 4...
Tasigur, the golden fang - is there a better finisher/engine I should be using in this slot? Pack Rat comes to mind because of it's interaction with Life from the Loam, its interaction with Crack the Earth, Smallpox, Mutavault (in stead of Treetop Village), and it's ability to completely take over a stalled game.
Ghost Quarter - is there a better way to abuse this card other than just re-using it until opponents run out of basics or spot land removal for things like creeping tar pit?
I had a thought that Grave Pact might be a nice card to have somewhere in the 75 - very difficult to remove and synergy with crack, smallpox, and gen. removal is amazing. Sort of like modern's The Abyss...
Quicksand, Treetop Village, and Ghost Quarter - I think I can only fit 3 lands in the utility slot here. Are there other options I should consider, or ways to abuse these cards that you know of?
I could drop the land destruction abit and add discard back into the deck, but this would morph the build quite a bit. Thoughts?
Lastly - I know pox isn't a popular modern deck, but the more I play this, the more excited about it I am getting. Does anyone else have a different pox list they use and like outside of the traditional B/W Spallopx Control and Raphael Levys Loam Pox? I have also worked with mono black builds in the past, but so far this list has been much stronger. I wish this thread was more active, but I will keep posting updates for my own benefit/record regardless...
Thanks for your time and responses in advance!
Below is the original idea and it's synergies - most still applies to the list above, so I kept it.
Spreading Algae can be used to enchant your own swamp if needed, then sac to crack the earth - and the algae will return to your hand!! You can also sac your algae on their swamp for crack (much better in case they interact with crack somehow)...
With Jund and Grixis making up a huge part of the meta - algae likely does work even without an Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in play.
Akki Blizzard-Herder will probably not be removed, and people will likely not attack into it which buys time. When sacced to Crack the Earth, your opponent will likely have to sac two lands to your 1.
As mentioned before Boom // Bust on your fetch land (crack in response) makes it equivalent to sinkhole.
It will be extremely easy to fill the GY for Gurmag Angler (might up to 4x)
I considered white as a splash instead of green, but I feel that Spreading Algae, Abrupt Decay, and Ancient Grudge are too strong to overlook for this strategy. Obviously the idea is mana denial pox.
Thoughts? Insights? I feel like this is a strong pool for mana-denial prison pox!
Wouldn't it be cool if they printed innocent blood into the modern pool? lol I keep seeing sigs with that...
BRW
More recently I have wanted to try out builds with the white splash instead of the green splash. Losing Life from the Loam and Spreading Algae hurts, but we get access to Ajani Vengeant, Flagstones of Trokair, Magus of the Tabernacle, and Ghostly Prison - on top of all the juicy sideboard cards white has to offer! Crack the Earth is not as synergistic with this build, but it is still good enough to consider.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I think you need a faster clock to close the game while you're ahead or else I'm afraid your opponent will climb his way back into the game too easily. The Delve beaters seem good here. I know they die to Smallpox but that's all about sequencing or wait to cast Pox til you have another dude to sacrifice. Or you could go for some equipment.
Yeah I forgot to include Gurmag Angler under "interesting cards." I had him in the original list i drew up as a 3-of and dropped him for more discard. It is hard to figure out what to cut....
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Fulminator mage or dark confidant would be good in this deck i think (side or main i dunno) and playing lands like mutavault with life form the loam could be good. Its like a jund loam pox. Did you look in somme legacy loam pox deck? I think it could help.
Yeah I built this idea based on pox decks I have played in legacy - it is only helpful to an extent - the card pool is much less supportive in modern so I am forced to work with spreading algae and crack the earth. The good news with Grixis and Jund being a hige meta share, spreading algae will not depend on urborg as much!
Dark Confidant and Fulminator Mage are also in my maybeboard. Just hard to find room - what would you switch for either?
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
You could remove some number of terminate/abrupt decay. You do run 4 Crack, 4 Smallpox and Liliana so you probably don't need the terminates as you should easily be able to maintain the board of creatures. You could drop both for a set of Fulminator. I'd probably consider DC in place of Bitterblossom if you wanted that route as the combo of Pox, DC, and BB might be too much life loss to handle. Loam seems like it might be necessary in a deck like this.
It seems like you have loaded up on the removal but it doesn't seem 100% necessary.
My thinking on the bitterblossom was that it provides bodies I could sac for crack the earth (along with ghast) to hit their lands. I don't really want to cast crack the earth and sac my land when I could just sac a token or the ghast - or do i?
In my experience, you need some targeted removal in this sort of deck so I chose 4 slots for it and split between decay and terminate.
I agree with the DC/ BB being too much loss in one deck that is slow to finish. With a faster clock it would probably be fine - like if it had the zombie fishes!
What do you think?
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I'm not entirely sure that you need targeted removal. You have some in the IoK and Thoughtseizes. If you're Cracking them and they sacrifice something other than a land, it's probably a problem for them as well. The problem that I see with BB tokens being fodder for the Pox/Crack is that you don't really want to sac them because it's your clock. At that point you're paying 1 life and a card to blow up their stuff. You're already on a clock when you play BB, so it seems like you'd want to make the most of those tokens.
You could test the zombie fish, it might work well (similar to Tombstalker in older legacy pox lists). I think that might work better overall to the BB in the end.
Gravecrawler is probably too inconsistent in this deck. It would need to be like a different zombie pox build or something...
Anyone see any other cards missing from the pool I posted worth considering?
You make a good point Locifer, I would need to test both builds to see which is more workable. BB seems to have the consistency factor when it comes to poxing and cracking, but the zombie fish has a better clock. Without Bitterblossom as an engine I really want Dark Confidant or something similar, but I can't run dark confidant with Gurmag Angler. Perhaps Pack Rat... ?
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
For anyone unfamiliar with Boom // Bust:
You cast it targeting your Verdant Catacombs (or any fetch) and opponent's non-fetch land. In response, you fetch - making the card sinkhole essentially. You need two active lands and a fetch in play to pull this off...
Here is the thread detailing how to pull this trick off - be careful not to pass priority after casting the Boom // Bust!
A combination of land destruction and trinisphere has the ability to lock the opponent out of the game completely!
I feel the deck needs another recursion effect to synergize with Crack the Earth - saccing my land isn't the best... This is why I like Bitterblossom in the deck... How else can Crack be abused?
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
So while looking into the synergies of the list posted directly above this post, I noticed a few things:
Spreading Algae can be used to enchant your own swamp if needed, then sac to crack the earth - and the algae will return to your hand!! You can also sac your algae on their swamp for crack (much better in case they interact with crack somehow)...
With Jund and Grixis making up a huge part of the meta - algae likely does work even without an Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in play.
Akki Blizzard-Herder will probably not be removed, and people will likely not attack into it which buys time. When sacced to Crack the Earth, your opponent will likely have to sac two lands to your 1.
As mentioned before Boom // Bust on your fetch land (crack in response) makes it equivalent to sinkhole.
It will be extremely easy to fill the GY for Gurmag Angler (might up to 4x)
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
In the list posted at the top of this page - I think I might be better off with the terminates main board over the discard... thoughts? I feel like controlling the board is much more important in this deck than picking a thing from their hand.
Late game I will need to make sure I can keep any 1-drop, or delved creatures off the board, but I think Lily might be able to handle that pretty well.
what would fit best in the inquisition slot? These are some options I think would work. Maybe a meta call...
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I am unsure if you would be better served with Terminates or Inquisitions. That's definitely something to test. I feel that you might be putting too many anglers in. 3 seems like a fine amount. It really depends on what your meta looks like. If it's a delver meta, you might actually want to consider Decays main. Another card that you might want to consider testing would be Blackmail. This gives your opponent a choice, but it also gives you the possibility of turn 1 discard a land. If your opponent is unfamiliar with how the deck is going to perform, they could show you some lands and things you dont care about allowing you to rip a land on t1. It seems christmasland though.
This deck does seem very slightly similar to a loam pox type of deck but with more land destruction.
Crucible of world might be helpful if you don't want lifre from the loam to recur your own land drops and keep yourself moving forward while shutting them down. Just need to be careful with what to delve for angler
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
I am unsure if you would be better served with Terminates or Inquisitions. That's definitely something to test. I feel that you might be putting too many anglers in. 3 seems like a fine amount. It really depends on what your meta looks like. If it's a delver meta, you might actually want to consider Decays main. Another card that you might want to consider testing would be Blackmail. This gives your opponent a choice, but it also gives you the possibility of turn 1 discard a land. If your opponent is unfamiliar with how the deck is going to perform, they could show you some lands and things you dont care about allowing you to rip a land on t1. It seems christmasland though.
This deck does seem very slightly similar to a loam pox type of deck but with more land destruction.
That is a good point - I guess I might be worrying about the delve creatures that could show up on the other side of the table a little too much. Blackmail is a good idea - thanks for bringing it up! I have it in my deckbuilding binder, but somehow I always forget it exists... So easy to just default IoK and Siezes...
Unfortunately I won't have time to test this until next week
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Can you explain how, without Flagstones of Trokair or Life From the Loam, you recover from your own land destruction? I do see the interactions with Spreading Algae, but that card is a 3-of, and the Boom/Bust trick with a fetchland also requires it to be at least turn 3, meaning you've essentially just cast a Stone Rain. You are only running 23 land and no filtering/card draw. I'd seriously suggest adding 1 land, 4 Loam, and replace a couple targeted removal spells with Molten Vortex.
I'm running a BWr Pox list, splashing green for 4 Life from the Loam, and both the Flagstones and Loam are critical for maintaining card/permanent advantage. Molten Vortex has been good in testing. After looking at your list, I'm interested to add 1-2 Crack the Earth for the additional early land destruction.
Can you explain how, without Flagstones of Trokair or Life From the Loam, you recover from your own land destruction? I do see the interactions with Spreading Algae, but that card is a 3-of, and the Boom/Bust trick with a fetchland also requires it to be at least turn 3, meaning you've essentially just cast a Stone Rain. You are only running 23 land and no filtering/card draw. I'd seriously suggest adding 1 land, 4 Loam, and replace a couple targeted removal spells with Molten Vortex.
I'm running a BWr Pox list, splashing green for 4 Life from the Loam, and both the Flagstones and Loam are critical for maintaining card/permanent advantage. Molten Vortex has been good in testing. After looking at your list, I'm interested to add 1-2 Crack the Earth for the additional early land destruction.
So the way i have "hypothesized" this deck, it has 8 cards that kill my own lands - 4x Akki Blizzard-Herder and 4x Smallpox. Crack the Earth synergizes with bloodghast, spreading algae, and the Akki - which I think should be reliable enough to prevent me from saccing my own land to the crack.
With the curve being so low - I don't think saccing a couple lands will be much of an issue for me - at least it will be much less so for me than my opponent - and the only 3-drop is Liliana of the Veil which will more or less be the lock the opponents creatures out of the game. This will require careful sequencing and opportunity - which will probably be challenging at first... but very rewarding.
I really like Molten Vortex and Life from the Loam, but I cannot see what I could take out that wouldn't take away from the land destruction strategy of the deck - can you make some suggestions so I can get an idea of what you were thinking? For me Life from the loam and Molten Vortex don't fit this strategy because they don't kill lands and require too much space in the deck to justify as a win condition - which would split the strategy possibly rendering the deck ineffective at either thing. In legacy, Loam Pox works well because you can recur wasteland. Against most decks (not all), recurring a ghost quarter will not be worth the effort imo (but maybe I am wrong - how does it work for you?). Adding 4 life from the loam and X molten vortex instead of having something like lightning bolt or inquisition of kozilek seems slightly counterproductive *in theory*... I could be entirely wrong, but that's why I didn't include loam in the first place. The Loam package only offers a different win con which will likely be more difficult to pull off than just casting a delve guy and recurring ghast. I can imagine that there may be a way to pull Loam/Vortex off that has more synergy with the deck as a whole, but I just don't see it right now, personally. Perhaps after you suggest what comes out for the loam package and how it would operate I will be more enlightened.
Either way - I think you are right on the Boom // Bust - it could very well be replaced by molten rain or fulminator mages. Then again, just because you can't pull off that trick until you have 3 lands in play doesn't mean that it is the same as costing three mana. Having another mana available to crack, bolt, Algae, or IoK after the Boom might make a huge difference. Now I will have to test the deck both ways to find out - thanks for this suggestion!
Regarding Card/Permanent advantage - I think of this strategy as following: Card advantage in this deck comes from the cards the opponent cannot cast - if I can keep them down to 1 land most of the game, nothing else really matters because they won't be able to cast anything and I have the tools to deal with any one drops (or higher) they can cast on such a limited budget. I will do fine with the limited land budget with "free" creatures and very cost effective LD. Anyway - that is the thinking. Flagstones of trokair is a nice synergy, but I don't think it is the only way to build a pox deck in modern.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Gravecrawler is probably too inconsistent in this deck. It would need to be like a different zombie pox build or something...
Anyone see any other cards missing from the pool I posted worth considering?
You make a good point Locifer, I would need to test both builds to see which is more workable. BB seems to have the consistency factor when it comes to poxing and cracking, but the zombie fish has a better clock. Without Bitterblossom as an engine I really want Dark Confidant or something similar, but I can't run dark confidant with Gurmag Angler. Perhaps Pack Rat... ?
There are other cards like Gravecrawler, like Nether Traitor and Bloodsoaked Champion to name a couple more. I feel being able to reanimate those creatures, in this deck, is the way to go. It would make it so that no matter how many sac-demanding spells you have in the beginning of the game, they'd always be able to be cast. Just like having BB on the board also increases your chances of not drawing into a dead card.
Can you explain how, without Flagstones of Trokair or Life From the Loam, you recover from your own land destruction? I do see the interactions with Spreading Algae, but that card is a 3-of, and the Boom/Bust trick with a fetchland also requires it to be at least turn 3, meaning you've essentially just cast a Stone Rain. You are only running 23 land and no filtering/card draw. I'd seriously suggest adding 1 land, 4 Loam, and replace a couple targeted removal spells with Molten Vortex.
I'm running a BWr Pox list, splashing green for 4 Life from the Loam, and both the Flagstones and Loam are critical for maintaining card/permanent advantage. Molten Vortex has been good in testing. After looking at your list, I'm interested to add 1-2 Crack the Earth for the additional early land destruction.
I tested out some of your ideas here and had some good results! Thanks again for the suggestions!
Life from the Loam allows me to get away with running less lands, and further helps lock the opponent out with sphere. I didn't realize this way of thinking when initially evaluating the card
Initially I was going for a more aggressive and reckless build - this new list is more sophisticated and planned out, and it plays like a prison pox deck. Trinisphere = Modern's Nether Void.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Okay I just edited the current list in the post above to prevent a little redundancy.
I am planning on taking this deck to FNM this week, and possibly to another smaller tournament on Thursday as well. I need some suggestions on different angles of attack against the deck's weaknesses. In playtesting, I identified two matchups that could prove difficult:
-This matchup might just be unwinnable if my Land Destruction plan doesn't catch them off guard - these cards all hate my deck. So far, I figure that surgical extraction on kitchen finks/ Lingering Souls and terminate on larger creatures that may get cheated into play will help a bit post SB.
-Game one their ability to generate sufficient mana without needing lands could hurt my gameplan, but hopefully my maindeck removal suite can offset that. Post board I think the game will probably be in my favor.
Any other advice people can provide on these matchups and/or others I am not targeting here that could be a problem would be most helpful!
Other things:
I had the thought that surgical extraction could be a good card for removing non-basic lands from certain decks to further mana-screw them. I am not sure if this is something I would want to do, or what matchups this would help the most in. Decks like tron I feel will be easy enough to not need the extra exiling.
Molten Vortex has been very good in testing, but I am not sure if 1, or 2 copies is right. If I go to 2 copies, I think I need to cut a lightning bolt or a crack the earth.
Spreading Algae is such a strong card in this deck, I find myself wanting to take it to 4. Its interactions with crack the earth and Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth are amazing, and it's taxing effect is stellar. I keep adding one and removing other things to make room, but I just don't think there is room for 4...
Tasigur, the golden fang - is there a better finisher/engine I should be using in this slot? Pack Rat comes to mind because of it's interaction with Life from the Loam, its interaction with Crack the Earth, Smallpox, Mutavault (in stead of Treetop Village), and it's ability to completely take over a stalled game.
Ghost Quarter - is there a better way to abuse this card other than just re-using it until opponents run out of basics or spot land removal for things like creeping tar pit?
I had a thought that Grave Pact might be a nice card to have somewhere in the 75 - very difficult to remove and synergy with crack, smallpox, and gen. removal is amazing. Sort of like modern's The Abyss...
Quicksand, Treetop Village, and Ghost Quarter - I think I can only fit 3 lands in the utility slot here. Are there other options I should consider, or ways to abuse these cards that you know of?
I could drop the land destruction abit and add discard back into the deck, but this would morph the build quite a bit. Thoughts?
Lastly - I know pox isn't a popular modern deck, but the more I play this, the more excited about it I am getting. Does anyone else have a different pox list they use and like outside of the traditional B/W Spallopx Control and Raphael Levys Loam Pox? I have also worked with mono black builds in the past, but so far this list has been much stronger. I wish this thread was more active, but I will keep posting updates for my own benefit/record regardless...
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Sac outlet in Evolutionary Leap with recursion creatures for shenanigans with Grave Pact. Most of the same tricks in the other build, but creature based rather than LD based...
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Hello everyone, I really like the idea behind the deck and here are some thoughts:
1) Is really Molten Vortex that good? I tested it for my Assault Loam and it was really disappointing.
2) Have you considered Evil Presence? You can always mana-screw them until you start blowing up lands, and after that too.
3) Spreading Algae is just sick. I love it!
4) Given the symmetrical effects of the deck, I believe that if you get to cast Grave Pact you're doing it wrong. 3CMC should be the top.
5) 6 Abrupt Decay/Terminate should be enough to get rid of any remaining creatures.
6) I haven't tested this yet, but I'd run 4 Life from the Loam and 8 Gravecrawler-like creatures.
Can't wait to build the deck and start testing, I'll bring feedback ^^
Hello everyone, I really like the idea behind the deck and here are some thoughts:
1) Is really Molten Vortex that good? I tested it for my Assault Loam and it was really disappointing.
2) Have you considered Evil Presence? You can always mana-screw them until you start blowing up lands, and after that too.
3) Spreading Algae is just sick. I love it!
4) Given the symmetrical effects of the deck, I believe that if you get to cast Grave Pact you're doing it wrong. 3CMC should be the top.
5) 6 Abrupt Decay/Terminate should be enough to get rid of any remaining creatures.
6) I haven't tested this yet, but I'd run 4 Life from the Loam and 8 Gravecrawler-like creatures.
Can't wait to build the deck and start testing, I'll bring feedback ^^
I think Molten Vortex is sort of like our Cursed Scroll - it doubles as a win con and recurable removal with Life from the Loam - I am still not sure on how best to optimize it in the build, or if the slot is better off as something else like more LD or the 4th Lily.
I did consider Evil Presence initially, but the idea of a 2-for-1 on myself was unfavorable, negating it's favorable interaction with Spreading Algae. The mana screw is something I tried in the past with blood moon, but it was inconsistent in how useful it was over just all out LD.
I am also going to test Evolutionary Leap in the Prison deck as a 1-of at some point. The idea of saccing bloodghast or akki blizzard-herder and getting another or a Tasigur/ Pack Rat seems really good. But then again, it might just be less optimal...
I was thinking of Grave Pact as a late game lock piece sort of how trinisphere functions now... with the value generated off of loam, it has been easy to get 4-5 lands into play mid game. It probably doesn't fit in the main, maybe SB, most likely a different build like the one I posted above... So more or less I agree with you lol
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Pox has been a long time favorite deck of mine - nothing exemplifies the merits of black more than pox control. I have tried mono black pox builds in modern before, but they didn't really pan out. I looked at Raphael Levy's Loam Pox Deck as well as the more traditional modern build in B/W Smallpox Control for inspiration. While these builds are interesting in their own way, neither really jumps out as a "pox deck" to me. They have some nice interactions, but the spirit of pox is minimal - I think we can do better.
About a year ago I built a R/B pox deck around blood moon and land destruction which was fun, but it was not as competitive as I was hoping. Recently I revisited a card I have always wanted to make use of: Spreading Algae. From this initial consideration, a well of ideas started pouring in and I decided to work on a Jund Prison Pox Deck. This deck is still in its infancy, and much testing and optimization needs to be done, but initial games have been very positive and I finally feel like I am playing pox in modern. Anyone who is interested in trying the deck, or has ideas - please post them below! I am sure there isn't just one way to do this either - all rogue pox brews are welcome!
That being said, here is my Jund version:
Modern Prison Pox BRG (updated 7/31/15)
4x Akki Blizzard-Herder
3x Bloodghast
2x Pack Rat
Spells (30):
4x Crack the Earth
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Molten Vortex
3x Spreading Algae
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Grisly Salvage
3x Life from the Loam
4x Smallpox
1x Terminate
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Trinisphere
1x Blood Crypt
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Copperline Gorge
1x Mutavault
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Bloodchief Ascension
1x Raven's Crime
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Dark Heart of the Wood
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Pyroclasm
1x Terminate
1x Choke
Some cards I am thinking about (thanks for the suggestions!):
Thoughts regarding the deck: (also posted below)
In playtesting, I identified some matchups that could prove difficult:
G/W/B Decks
-This matchup might just be unwinnable if my Land Destruction plan doesn't catch them off guard - these cards all hate my deck. So far, I figure that surgical extraction on kitchen finks/ Lingering Souls and terminate on larger creatures that may get cheated into play will help a bit post SB.
Affinity
-Game one their ability to generate sufficient mana without needing lands could hurt my gameplan, but hopefully my maindeck removal suite can offset that. Post board I think the game will probably be in my favor.
Any other advice people can provide on these matchups and/or others I am not targeting here that could be a problem would be most helpful!
Other things:
Lastly - I know pox isn't a popular modern deck, but the more I play this, the more excited about it I am getting. Does anyone else have a different pox list they use and like outside of the traditional B/W Spallopx Control and Raphael Levys Loam Pox? I have also worked with mono black builds in the past, but so far this list has been much stronger. I wish this thread was more active, but I will keep posting updates for my own benefit/record regardless...
Thanks for your time and responses in advance!
Below is the original idea and it's synergies - most still applies to the list above, so I kept it.
4x Bloodghast
4x Akki Blizzard-Herder
3x Gurmag Angler
Spells (26):
4x Crack the Earth
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Spreading Algae
2x Boom // Bust
4x Smallpox
2x Pyroclasm
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Blood Crypt
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Mutavault
3x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Mountain
3x Terminate
1x Pithing Needle
3x Ancient Grudge
1x Kolaghan's Command
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Torpor Orb
2x Trinisphere
Key Synergies:
Spreading Algae can be used to enchant your own swamp if needed, then sac to crack the earth - and the algae will return to your hand!! You can also sac your algae on their swamp for crack (much better in case they interact with crack somehow)...
With Jund and Grixis making up a huge part of the meta - algae likely does work even without an Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in play.
Akki Blizzard-Herder will probably not be removed, and people will likely not attack into it which buys time. When sacced to Crack the Earth, your opponent will likely have to sac two lands to your 1.
As mentioned before Boom // Bust on your fetch land (crack in response) makes it equivalent to sinkhole.
It will be extremely easy to fill the GY for Gurmag Angler (might up to 4x)
No need for thoughtseize since your opponent will likely not be casting anything above 3 mana the entire game! Unless you want to hit their tasigur, the golden fang or gurmag angler...
Maybeboard:
I considered white as a splash instead of green, but I feel that Spreading Algae, Abrupt Decay, and Ancient Grudge are too strong to overlook for this strategy. Obviously the idea is mana denial pox.
Thoughts? Insights? I feel like this is a strong pool for mana-denial prison pox!
Wouldn't it be cool if they printed innocent blood into the modern pool? lol I keep seeing sigs with that...
More recently I have wanted to try out builds with the white splash instead of the green splash. Losing Life from the Loam and Spreading Algae hurts, but we get access to Ajani Vengeant, Flagstones of Trokair, Magus of the Tabernacle, and Ghostly Prison - on top of all the juicy sideboard cards white has to offer! Crack the Earth is not as synergistic with this build, but it is still good enough to consider.
Modern Prison Pox (Mardu) BRW (Updated 2/12/16)
4x Akki Blizzard-Herder
4x Fulminator Mage
1x Magus of the Tabernacle
2x Tombstalker
Spells (24):
4x Crack the Earth
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Boom // Bust
4x Smallpox
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Trinisphere
2x Ghostly Prison
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Palace Siege
3x Blood Crypt
3x Godless Shrine
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Marsh Flats
4x Flagstones of Trokair
3x Swamp
1x Plains
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Shambling Vent
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Stony Silence
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Trinisphere
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
Last Updated 2/12/16 - added Mardu List and comments
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Dark Confidant and Fulminator Mage are also in my maybeboard. Just hard to find room - what would you switch for either?
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
It seems like you have loaded up on the removal but it doesn't seem 100% necessary.
In my experience, you need some targeted removal in this sort of deck so I chose 4 slots for it and split between decay and terminate.
I agree with the DC/ BB being too much loss in one deck that is slow to finish. With a faster clock it would probably be fine - like if it had the zombie fishes!
What do you think?
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
You could test the zombie fish, it might work well (similar to Tombstalker in older legacy pox lists). I think that might work better overall to the BB in the end.
Anyone see any other cards missing from the pool I posted worth considering?
You make a good point Locifer, I would need to test both builds to see which is more workable. BB seems to have the consistency factor when it comes to poxing and cracking, but the zombie fish has a better clock. Without Bitterblossom as an engine I really want Dark Confidant or something similar, but I can't run dark confidant with Gurmag Angler. Perhaps Pack Rat... ?
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
4x Bloodghast
4x Akki Blizzard-Herder
3x Gurmag Angler
Spells (26):
4x Crack the Earth
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Spreading Algae
2x Boom // Bust
4x Smallpox
2x Pyroclasm
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Blood Crypt
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Mutavault
3x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Mountain
3x Terminate
1x Pithing Needle
3x Ancient Grudge
1x Kolaghan's Command
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Torpor Orb
2x Trinisphere
For anyone unfamiliar with Boom // Bust:
You cast it targeting your Verdant Catacombs (or any fetch) and opponent's non-fetch land. In response, you fetch - making the card sinkhole essentially. You need two active lands and a fetch in play to pull this off...
Here is the thread detailing how to pull this trick off - be careful not to pass priority after casting the Boom // Bust!
A combination of land destruction and trinisphere has the ability to lock the opponent out of the game completely!
I feel the deck needs another recursion effect to synergize with Crack the Earth - saccing my land isn't the best... This is why I like Bitterblossom in the deck... How else can Crack be abused?
Akki Blizzard-Herder + Crack the Earth... Better than Fulminator Mage imo
Edits - keep tweaking this version of the list.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Spreading Algae can be used to enchant your own swamp if needed, then sac to crack the earth - and the algae will return to your hand!! You can also sac your algae on their swamp for crack (much better in case they interact with crack somehow)...
With Jund and Grixis making up a huge part of the meta - algae likely does work even without an Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in play.
Akki Blizzard-Herder will probably not be removed, and people will likely not attack into it which buys time. When sacced to Crack the Earth, your opponent will likely have to sac two lands to your 1.
As mentioned before Boom // Bust on your fetch land (crack in response) makes it equivalent to sinkhole.
It will be extremely easy to fill the GY for Gurmag Angler (might up to 4x)
No need for thoughtseize since your opponent will likely not be casting anything above 3 mana the entire game! Unless you want to hit their tasigur, the golden fang or gurmag angler...
This is starting to look pretty promising...
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Late game I will need to make sure I can keep any 1-drop, or delved creatures off the board, but I think Lily might be able to handle that pretty well.
what would fit best in the inquisition slot? These are some options I think would work. Maybe a meta call...
Maybe I should mix it up and throw a tombstalker or a tasigur, the golden fang in there instead of the 4th angler?
I guess there never seems to be a lot of interest when I post pox lists - why is that? I hope to get some responses lol Thanks!
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
This deck does seem very slightly similar to a loam pox type of deck but with more land destruction.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
That is a good point - I guess I might be worrying about the delve creatures that could show up on the other side of the table a little too much. Blackmail is a good idea - thanks for bringing it up! I have it in my deckbuilding binder, but somehow I always forget it exists... So easy to just default IoK and Siezes...
Unfortunately I won't have time to test this until next week
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I'm running a BWr Pox list, splashing green for 4 Life from the Loam, and both the Flagstones and Loam are critical for maintaining card/permanent advantage. Molten Vortex has been good in testing. After looking at your list, I'm interested to add 1-2 Crack the Earth for the additional early land destruction.
So the way i have "hypothesized" this deck, it has 8 cards that kill my own lands - 4x Akki Blizzard-Herder and 4x Smallpox. Crack the Earth synergizes with bloodghast, spreading algae, and the Akki - which I think should be reliable enough to prevent me from saccing my own land to the crack.
With the curve being so low - I don't think saccing a couple lands will be much of an issue for me - at least it will be much less so for me than my opponent - and the only 3-drop is Liliana of the Veil which will more or less be the lock the opponents creatures out of the game. This will require careful sequencing and opportunity - which will probably be challenging at first... but very rewarding.
I really like Molten Vortex and Life from the Loam, but I cannot see what I could take out that wouldn't take away from the land destruction strategy of the deck - can you make some suggestions so I can get an idea of what you were thinking? For me Life from the loam and Molten Vortex don't fit this strategy because they don't kill lands and require too much space in the deck to justify as a win condition - which would split the strategy possibly rendering the deck ineffective at either thing. In legacy, Loam Pox works well because you can recur wasteland. Against most decks (not all), recurring a ghost quarter will not be worth the effort imo (but maybe I am wrong - how does it work for you?). Adding 4 life from the loam and X molten vortex instead of having something like lightning bolt or inquisition of kozilek seems slightly counterproductive *in theory*... I could be entirely wrong, but that's why I didn't include loam in the first place. The Loam package only offers a different win con which will likely be more difficult to pull off than just casting a delve guy and recurring ghast. I can imagine that there may be a way to pull Loam/Vortex off that has more synergy with the deck as a whole, but I just don't see it right now, personally. Perhaps after you suggest what comes out for the loam package and how it would operate I will be more enlightened.
Either way - I think you are right on the Boom // Bust - it could very well be replaced by molten rain or fulminator mages. Then again, just because you can't pull off that trick until you have 3 lands in play doesn't mean that it is the same as costing three mana. Having another mana available to crack, bolt, Algae, or IoK after the Boom might make a huge difference. Now I will have to test the deck both ways to find out - thanks for this suggestion!
Regarding Card/Permanent advantage - I think of this strategy as following: Card advantage in this deck comes from the cards the opponent cannot cast - if I can keep them down to 1 land most of the game, nothing else really matters because they won't be able to cast anything and I have the tools to deal with any one drops (or higher) they can cast on such a limited budget. I will do fine with the limited land budget with "free" creatures and very cost effective LD. Anyway - that is the thinking. Flagstones of trokair is a nice synergy, but I don't think it is the only way to build a pox deck in modern.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
There are other cards like Gravecrawler, like Nether Traitor and Bloodsoaked Champion to name a couple more. I feel being able to reanimate those creatures, in this deck, is the way to go. It would make it so that no matter how many sac-demanding spells you have in the beginning of the game, they'd always be able to be cast. Just like having BB on the board also increases your chances of not drawing into a dead card.
I tested out some of your ideas here and had some good results! Thanks again for the suggestions!
The following was added to the OP as well:
Update - new list based on some testing!
4x Akki Blizzard-Herder
4x Bloodghast
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spells (28):
4x Crack the Earth
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Molten Vortex
3x Spreading Algae
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Life from the Loam
4x Smallpox
2x Terminate
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Trinisphere
1x Blood Crypt
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Copperline Gorge
1x Treetop Village
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Forest
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Illness in the Ranks
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Golgari Charm
2x Pack Rat
2x Pyroclasm
2x Terminate
2x Choke
In my limited testing:
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Crucible of Worlds (I think unnecessary, but worth a thought)
Dark Heart of the Wood in the sideboard (adding another overgrown tomb in place of a swamp for support)
Quicksand
Did some more testing last night against a mardu midrange deck and top control - the deck did it's thing very well.
Current list:
4x Akki Blizzard-Herder
4x Bloodghast
2x Tasigur, The Golden Fang
Spells (28):
4x Crack the Earth
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Molten Vortex
3x Spreading Algae
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Life from the Loam
4x Smallpox
2x Terminate
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Trinisphere
1x Blood Crypt
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Forest
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Copperline Gorge
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Quicksand
1x Treetop Village
1x Ghost Quarter
4x Surgical Extraction
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Terminate
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Dark Heart of the Wood
2x Pack Rat
2x Pyroclasm
2x Choke
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I am planning on taking this deck to FNM this week, and possibly to another smaller tournament on Thursday as well. I need some suggestions on different angles of attack against the deck's weaknesses. In playtesting, I identified two matchups that could prove difficult:
G/W/B Decks
-This matchup might just be unwinnable if my Land Destruction plan doesn't catch them off guard - these cards all hate my deck. So far, I figure that surgical extraction on kitchen finks/ Lingering Souls and terminate on larger creatures that may get cheated into play will help a bit post SB.
Affinity
-Game one their ability to generate sufficient mana without needing lands could hurt my gameplan, but hopefully my maindeck removal suite can offset that. Post board I think the game will probably be in my favor.
Any other advice people can provide on these matchups and/or others I am not targeting here that could be a problem would be most helpful!
Other things:
Lastly - I know pox isn't a popular modern deck, but the more I play this, the more excited about it I am getting. Does anyone else have a different pox list they use and like outside of the traditional B/W Spallopx Control and Raphael Levys Loam Pox? I have also worked with mono black builds in the past, but so far this list has been much stronger. I wish this thread was more active, but I will keep posting updates for my own benefit/record regardless...
Thanks for your time and responses in advance!
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Evolution Pox:
4x Bloodghast
4x Dark Confidant
3x Pack Rat
2x Kitchen Finks
Spells (25):
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Molten Vortex
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Evolutionary Leap
2x Life from the Loam
4x Smallpox
2x Terminate
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Grave Pact
1x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Copperline Gorge
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Swamp
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Quicksand
1x Treetop Village
Sac outlet in Evolutionary Leap with recursion creatures for shenanigans with Grave Pact. Most of the same tricks in the other build, but creature based rather than LD based...
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
1) Is really Molten Vortex that good? I tested it for my Assault Loam and it was really disappointing.
2) Have you considered Evil Presence? You can always mana-screw them until you start blowing up lands, and after that too.
3) Spreading Algae is just sick. I love it!
4) Given the symmetrical effects of the deck, I believe that if you get to cast Grave Pact you're doing it wrong. 3CMC should be the top.
5) 6 Abrupt Decay/Terminate should be enough to get rid of any remaining creatures.
6) I haven't tested this yet, but I'd run 4 Life from the Loam and 8 Gravecrawler-like creatures.
Can't wait to build the deck and start testing, I'll bring feedback ^^
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
I think Molten Vortex is sort of like our Cursed Scroll - it doubles as a win con and recurable removal with Life from the Loam - I am still not sure on how best to optimize it in the build, or if the slot is better off as something else like more LD or the 4th Lily.
I did consider Evil Presence initially, but the idea of a 2-for-1 on myself was unfavorable, negating it's favorable interaction with Spreading Algae. The mana screw is something I tried in the past with blood moon, but it was inconsistent in how useful it was over just all out LD.
I agree on the Abrupt Decay and Terminate, but more testing will tell...
I am also going to test Evolutionary Leap in the Prison deck as a 1-of at some point. The idea of saccing bloodghast or akki blizzard-herder and getting another or a Tasigur/ Pack Rat seems really good. But then again, it might just be less optimal...
I was thinking of Grave Pact as a late game lock piece sort of how trinisphere functions now... with the value generated off of loam, it has been easy to get 4-5 lands into play mid game. It probably doesn't fit in the main, maybe SB, most likely a different build like the one I posted above... So more or less I agree with you lol
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague