Yeah, I saw that interaction. It is a 2 mana Shock as long as Parasite stays alive. Maybe also Rotting Rats would be better with mainboard Pack Rats? Not sure. I tested Pack Rat in my list and wasn't very happy with it. It was amazing if that was the only thing I was doing and I feel the entire list would have to be built around it. But yours seems like it would work a lot better. With Bloodghast and Gravecrawler your deck wouldn't mind discarding for each copy of Pack Rat. Maybe after you have tested yours a bit you could try going down to 2 Gargadon, no Anglers and up 4 Pack Rats. Rotting Rats, Pack Rats, and Mutavaults can overwhelm an opponent pretty quick.
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My current modern paper decks with current match records since 02/01/17:
In fact
iI think he uses the rats to discard the ghast and the so while being able to reanimate crawlers from an empty board. Also they serve to remove two counter from gargadon.
Pack rat is slow . I teseçted them and although was not bad was not really good too.
I also think the anglers are there for recicling the 14 removal spells once they have been used. It's easy to cast them, they are zombies for crawlers and two seems to be the right number.
Pack Rat is extremely slow, and stops you from being able to do anything else but go all in with the rats. I didn't like it at all. But they would fit better in his deck than mine for sure. So I suggested it as an option. I can see Angler being cast after recycling the 1cmc spells. I've tried similar lists in the past but without Gargadon and they just never seem to get there. I always ended up going 0-3 or 1-2 with lists like that.
I'm trying to find a medium between high CMC and low CMC to be able to cut back a land or two and have more Bolts/low CMC spells but it is proving difficult. I'm still Goldfishing quite a bit with my list though to try and work it out.
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These ones have make me think about them. The dead is another cheap recursive dude, the Partisan is another sac outlet which also grows with my 14 removal spells and bad mon is well ... BAD MOON!!. It will make my tiny creature become bigger. Only problem it make bigger others blac dudes but hey, mine could return and return again so why not??
Trying to find slots for those cards. What do you think?
I do wonder what the benefit to this list is over either a Mono black aggro list full of 1 and 2 drops, or the more midrange and devotion lists found in this thread?
Something that I've been curious about for a while but now that we have Gifted Aetherborn does anyone think there's a critical mass of vampires to make playing Kalastria Highborn worth playing?
It seems like it plays into the strategy of the deck well but I wouldn't know if it could replace cards like Relentless Dead.
I think I have found a way to give us card advantage as well as give our Gravecrawler's the ability to block. Smuggler's Copter. I was skeptical at first but it looks like it fits well with our deck. Lets us draw to find what we need and our deck is relatively resilient to the discard portion of the card. I'm still tweaking a bit trying to find that happy medium between high CMC cards and 1 drops and I don't think it is quite there yet but this is what I have so far:
I feel the deck has potential but it just isn't quite there. In practice I can definitely win a few games but can't quite get there sometimes. Greater Gargadon works great though. In multiple games I can get him out onto the board off suspend. Maybe not quite as fast as a Dredge deck could but in 6 games I got him onto the board 3 times. I'd say that isn't bad at all.
I am also considering going up to 4 Fatal Push. The card is just meant for this deck. With Urborg, Tomb of Yawbmoth I can just leave my fetches on the battlefield and use them for B without cracking them and then if I need to push something I can crack it on demand. With Greater Gargadon I can just sac something to it if I need to Push something. Same with Kalitas. The deck can get rid of it's own permanents quite easily and Push is really easy to use.
I feel like this deck just needs that "one great thing" that we haven't figured out yet or hasn't been printed yet that could really add some consistency. It just feels so close to being really good.
Anyways right now I wouldn't play creatures that are not recursive or cost more than 2 or 3 mana as much because Fatal push, abrupt decay, lightning bolt, path to exile, etc are all cheap spells that will make you loose lot of tempo.
Because of that I'm using the list I posted above and it's working really good.
Burning Force, I'm going to try your changes to see if they worthwhile. I like those ideas although I'm not sure if we have enough zombies to keep the gravecrawler's party going on.
Instead of the Yahenni, Undying Partisan I was thinking on blasting station which seems better and can be used to finish opponent creatures adding damage. Or perhaps both of them?
Howdy y'all, I've been bothered enough to build a modern deck so people see me beyond the legacy nights, and I finally decided on going back to my roots with a devotion list! And I figure black devotion will probably be a bit stronger in a meta full of control decks and no tron than green devotion is, since we get to play 6 maindeck discard spells. So without further ado, here's the 77!
I know that the full 4 Obliterators is probably a little ballsy/excessive, but I'm a ballsy player and I'll yolo it for a couple weeks and see how it works out.
In legacy I play various flavours of stompy/stax and I've learned just how powerful the looter scooter can be. While it can't come down turn 1, turn 2 is still reasonably powerful, and combined with the 2 Phyrexian Arenas I feel that it'll probably give me the power to dig through the deck and find things. And with the 4 Gravecrawlers, 2 Relentless Dead, and the single Whip of Erebos, I'm okay with discarding a good 35% of the deck at any given time.
What are your thoughts on it? Is there anything you guys can see that's glaringly bad in the list? I'm okay with having the 62 card main deck, I'll usually play 61 in any other given format, but I'm open to suggestions of things to cut. Other than the Obliterators, those have to stay in as a 4 of, I'm just too attached to my playset to let any of them get cut.
What do you think? Which list do you prefer?? I've been testing both of them and each one has its pros and cons, but both of them are working really well for me.
@Pcrusader - Why are you posting deck lists with no devotion mechanic, in a "Bx Devotion" thread?
Edit - I'm not suggesting that your decks are bad. They do seem pretty good, but would it be better at this point to start a new thread if no cards with devotion are in them?
I use Ashenmoor Liege mostly due to budget but it does give us BBB, boosts our smaller guys and grieves our opponent for spot removing it. I'm also sure Master of the Feast will get a lot of criticism. Yes, it dies to Abrupt Decay. Yes, it gives our opponent a card (very bad, I agree) but it is a huge flying clock that comes down early and doesn't die to Lightning Bolt. A single successful swing takes away a 1/4 of our opponent's HP which is what we want before we finish them with Gary. If it ends up sucking, you could always replace it with Geralf's Messenger, but I think it's worth testing here.
Otherwise, Gifted Aetherborn is a great blocker which forces them to spend removal if they want to swing without losing their bigger guys. Bloodghast, of course, is a no-brainer.
I think you are on the right path. I don't like that Ashmoor dies to Bolt, but in the day and age of Push... You are right about Master of Feast getting crap. He's really neat with Notion Thief, but outside of that I wouldn't run him. We want to be grinding people out, and giving people cards just undoes your Thoughtseize.
I'd say it's a good start. I'm not a huge fan of Bitterblossom, and would swap it out for another Arena. With a third Arena, I'd also drop the Sign in Blood for another copy of Collective Brutality.
Thanks for the comments. I'm gonna give the list I try next week and I'll report back. Bitterblossom sounds like it could work though. With Ashenmoore Liege, we are producing a 2/2 flyer every turn. And even without Liege, it gives us a chump blocker in the early game. It seems versatile enough to warrant a slot, but I'll let you know how it turns out. You're probably right about switching out Sign in Blood for another Collective Brutality though.
I haven't fleshed out a sideboard yet, but what about something like this:
Has anyone tried to incorporate Death's Shadow into a Mono Black Devotion build? One could argue that lifegain through Gary or Kalitas runs counter to what Death's Shadow is trying to do. However, our devotion builds do tend to lose a lot of life through Thoughtseize, Dismember, and card draw (Bob, Sign in Blood, etc.). Death's Shadow could also be effective against burn, and with a red splash for K-Command, Temur Battle Rage, etc. Could be worth a try!
The deck really lacks a good 1,2-drop to apply pressure while trying to control the game through discard/removal making it just a less efficient version of Jund/Abzan.
The closest thing to a decent clock I can think of is Asylum Visitor which starts at 3-power but it can be easily "stonewall'ed" as well.
Isn't Sadistic Sacrament better in Mono-Black ?
Though with enough maindeck discard I don't think that it is particulary necessary, not as much as a (reasonably cheap) fast clock.
I feel good about most matchups, except for Tron... tried to add a few pieces to deal with combo decks, and I still feel fairly limited against Scapeshift/Valakut decks. Gifted Aetherborn is great against Death's Shadow decks, although I do wish that it could be easily brought back from the graveyard, like Bloodghast. Although running Bob is a problem during certain matchups, most of the time his benefits outweigh the downsides, and this seems like a much better meta to run him than previous ones. Still merits more testing though.
I feel good about most matchups, except for Tron... tried to add a few pieces to deal with combo decks, and I still feel fairly limited against Scapeshift/Valakut decks. Gifted Aetherborn is great against Death's Shadow decks, although I do wish that it could be easily brought back from the graveyard, like Bloodghast. Although running Bob is a problem during certain matchups, most of the time his benefits outweigh the downsides, and this seems like a much better meta to run him than previous ones. Still merits more testing though.
Gifted Aetherborn is absolutely amazing against Death's Shadow, particularly because that is really invading Modern right now. I get pretty nervous about Dark Confidant is this deck because of some really high cost cards like Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Usually you can get more life because of the TBS trigger from Gray Merchant of Asphodel but an opponent can counter it or do something to stop that synergy of life gain.
I feel good about most matchups, except for Tron... tried to add a few pieces to deal with combo decks, and I still feel fairly limited against Scapeshift/Valakut decks. Gifted Aetherborn is great against Death's Shadow decks, although I do wish that it could be easily brought back from the graveyard, like Bloodghast. Although running Bob is a problem during certain matchups, most of the time his benefits outweigh the downsides, and this seems like a much better meta to run him than previous ones. Still merits more testing though.
Gifted Aetherborn is absolutely amazing against Death's Shadow, particularly because that is really invading Modern right now. I get pretty nervous about Dark Confidant is this deck because of some really high cost cards like Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Usually you can get more life because of the TBS trigger from Gray Merchant of Asphodel but an opponent can counter it or do something to stop that synergy of life gain.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Dragon Stompy - R 11-6-0
Ponza - RG 8-4-0
Tron - BG 1-2-0
Naya Burn - WRG 2-4-0
Spirits - UW2-2-0
Dragons - R
iI think he uses the rats to discard the ghast and the so while being able to reanimate crawlers from an empty board. Also they serve to remove two counter from gargadon.
Pack rat is slow . I teseçted them and although was not bad was not really good too.
I also think the anglers are there for recicling the 14 removal spells once they have been used. It's easy to cast them, they are zombies for crawlers and two seems to be the right number.
I'm trying to find a medium between high CMC and low CMC to be able to cut back a land or two and have more Bolts/low CMC spells but it is proving difficult. I'm still Goldfishing quite a bit with my list though to try and work it out.
Dragon Stompy - R 11-6-0
Ponza - RG 8-4-0
Tron - BG 1-2-0
Naya Burn - WRG 2-4-0
Spirits - UW2-2-0
Dragons - R
Thinking about the cards suggested by burning_force. I think I have to test:
Relentless Dead
Yahenni, Undying Partisan
bad moon
These ones have make me think about them. The dead is another cheap recursive dude, the Partisan is another sac outlet which also grows with my 14 removal spells and bad mon is well ... BAD MOON!!. It will make my tiny creature become bigger. Only problem it make bigger others blac dudes but hey, mine could return and return again so why not??
Trying to find slots for those cards. What do you think?
I do wonder what the benefit to this list is over either a Mono black aggro list full of 1 and 2 drops, or the more midrange and devotion lists found in this thread?
It seems like it plays into the strategy of the deck well but I wouldn't know if it could replace cards like Relentless Dead.
I feel the deck has potential but it just isn't quite there. In practice I can definitely win a few games but can't quite get there sometimes. Greater Gargadon works great though. In multiple games I can get him out onto the board off suspend. Maybe not quite as fast as a Dredge deck could but in 6 games I got him onto the board 3 times. I'd say that isn't bad at all.
I am also considering going up to 4 Fatal Push. The card is just meant for this deck. With Urborg, Tomb of Yawbmoth I can just leave my fetches on the battlefield and use them for B without cracking them and then if I need to push something I can crack it on demand. With Greater Gargadon I can just sac something to it if I need to Push something. Same with Kalitas. The deck can get rid of it's own permanents quite easily and Push is really easy to use.
I feel like this deck just needs that "one great thing" that we haven't figured out yet or hasn't been printed yet that could really add some consistency. It just feels so close to being really good.
4 Gravecrawler
2 Relentless Dead
3 Geralf's Messenger
2 Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Gurmag Angler
3 Greater Gargadon
Spells - 15
2 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Thoughtseize
2 Profane Command
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Smuggler's Copter
Enchantments - 2
2 Whip of Erebos
Lands - 23
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Mountain
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Polluted Delta
4 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Extirpate
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Shattering Spree
2 Vampiric Link
1 Vandalblast
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Yahenni's Expertise
Dragon Stompy - R 11-6-0
Ponza - RG 8-4-0
Tron - BG 1-2-0
Naya Burn - WRG 2-4-0
Spirits - UW2-2-0
Dragons - R
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/549966-modern-zombies?page=9
Anyways right now I wouldn't play creatures that are not recursive or cost more than 2 or 3 mana as much because Fatal push, abrupt decay, lightning bolt, path to exile, etc are all cheap spells that will make you loose lot of tempo.
Because of that I'm using the list I posted above and it's working really good.
Burning Force, I'm going to try your changes to see if they worthwhile. I like those ideas although I'm not sure if we have enough zombies to keep the gravecrawler's party going on.
Instead of the Yahenni, Undying Partisan I was thinking on blasting station which seems better and can be used to finish opponent creatures adding damage. Or perhaps both of them?
What do you think?
2x Collective Brutality
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
2x Phyrexian Arena
1x Batterskull
3x Smuggler's Copter
1x Whip of Erebos
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Geralf's Messenger
2x Gifted Aetherborn
4x Gravecrawler
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
2x Relentless Dead
1x Arena
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
17x Swamp
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
3x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Pithing Needle
1x Sadistic Sacrament
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Yahenni's Expertise
I know that the full 4 Obliterators is probably a little ballsy/excessive, but I'm a ballsy player and I'll yolo it for a couple weeks and see how it works out.
In legacy I play various flavours of stompy/stax and I've learned just how powerful the looter scooter can be. While it can't come down turn 1, turn 2 is still reasonably powerful, and combined with the 2 Phyrexian Arenas I feel that it'll probably give me the power to dig through the deck and find things. And with the 4 Gravecrawlers, 2 Relentless Dead, and the single Whip of Erebos, I'm okay with discarding a good 35% of the deck at any given time.
What are your thoughts on it? Is there anything you guys can see that's glaringly bad in the list? I'm okay with having the 62 card main deck, I'll usually play 61 in any other given format, but I'm open to suggestions of things to cut. Other than the Obliterators, those have to stay in as a 4 of, I'm just too attached to my playset to let any of them get cut.
2 Hex Parasite
2 Relentless Dead
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Bloodghast
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
4 Greater Gargadon
1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
2 Kolaghan's command
4 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tragic Slip
Sorcery (4)
4 Faithless Looting
Enchantment (1)
1 Bad Moon
1 Blood Crypt
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Polluted Delta
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
5 Swamp
OR
2 Hex Parasite
2 Relentless Dead
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Bloodghast
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Kolaghan's command
4 Fatal Push
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Tragic Slip
Sorcery (4)
4 Faithless Looting
Enchantment (1)
1 Bad Moon
1 Blood Crypt
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Polluted Delta
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
5 Swamp
What do you think? Which list do you prefer?? I've been testing both of them and each one has its pros and cons, but both of them are working really well for me.
Edit - I'm not suggesting that your decks are bad. They do seem pretty good, but would it be better at this point to start a new thread if no cards with devotion are in them?
4x Bloodghast
4x Gifted Aetherborn
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
2x Master of the Feast
3x Ashenmoor Liege
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Fatal Push
3x Victim of Night
2x Thoughtseize
1x Sign in Blood
2x Collective Brutality
1x Bitterblossom
2x Phyrexian Arena
Land (23)
22x Swamp
1x Nythos, Shrine to Nyx
I use Ashenmoor Liege mostly due to budget but it does give us BBB, boosts our smaller guys and grieves our opponent for spot removing it. I'm also sure Master of the Feast will get a lot of criticism. Yes, it dies to Abrupt Decay. Yes, it gives our opponent a card (very bad, I agree) but it is a huge flying clock that comes down early and doesn't die to Lightning Bolt. A single successful swing takes away a 1/4 of our opponent's HP which is what we want before we finish them with Gary. If it ends up sucking, you could always replace it with Geralf's Messenger, but I think it's worth testing here.
Otherwise, Gifted Aetherborn is a great blocker which forces them to spend removal if they want to swing without losing their bigger guys. Bloodghast, of course, is a no-brainer.
I'd say it's a good start. I'm not a huge fan of Bitterblossom, and would swap it out for another Arena. With a third Arena, I'd also drop the Sign in Blood for another copy of Collective Brutality.
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I haven't fleshed out a sideboard yet, but what about something like this:
3x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Duress
3x Hero's Downfall
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Illness in the Ranks
1x Lost Legacy
1x Dismember
I'd rather use Gifted Aetherborn instead and also change the split between Phyrexian Obliterator and Gray Merchant of Asphodel from 2/4 to 3/3.
Victim of Night might also me better than Dismember to complement Fatal Push in this deck.
The "Tron" match-up seems as miserable as it was expected to be.
Some of the SB cards seemed really questionable to me, like:
2x Wrench Mind (unnecessary with all other discard spells), 1x Night of Souls Betrayal (non-bo with Bloodghast) and 1x Flaying Tendrills (not good with: Bloodghast, Relentless Dead and Geralf's Messenger).
The deck really lacks a good 1,2-drop to apply pressure while trying to control the game through discard/removal making it just a less efficient version of Jund/Abzan.
The closest thing to a decent clock I can think of is Asylum Visitor which starts at 3-power but it can be easily "stonewall'ed" as well.
Though with enough maindeck discard I don't think that it is particulary necessary, not as much as a (reasonably cheap) fast clock.
3x Geralf's Messenger
3x Gifted Aetherborn
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Phyrexian Obliterator
2x Collective Brutality
4x Fatal Push
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Slaughter Pact
4x Thoughtseize
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
18x Swamp
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Collective Brutality
1x Sadistic Sacrament
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Yahenni's Expertise
1x Batterskull
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Bojuka Bog
I feel good about most matchups, except for Tron... tried to add a few pieces to deal with combo decks, and I still feel fairly limited against Scapeshift/Valakut decks. Gifted Aetherborn is great against Death's Shadow decks, although I do wish that it could be easily brought back from the graveyard, like Bloodghast. Although running Bob is a problem during certain matchups, most of the time his benefits outweigh the downsides, and this seems like a much better meta to run him than previous ones. Still merits more testing though.
Gifted Aetherborn is absolutely amazing against Death's Shadow, particularly because that is really invading Modern right now. I get pretty nervous about Dark Confidant is this deck because of some really high cost cards like Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Usually you can get more life because of the TBS trigger from Gray Merchant of Asphodel but an opponent can counter it or do something to stop that synergy of life gain.
gatekeeper of malakir is also good vs death's shadow
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
I like Gatekeeper of Malakir, that is a very good option to slow down and hurt Death's Shadow decks.