Oh and the list you have seems like it might be pulling in a lot of directions. Does it feel at any point as though it's spread a little thin anywhere? A fast aggressive deck, but in truth it all breaks down to this being a combo deck.
Great timing for your comment. The_Hobbit went 4-0 in the most recent daily 4/14/15 with an example of a more all in aggressive version of this idea. It utilized Kiln Fiend and Nivix Cyclops and a bunch of pump/unblockable spells to kill the opponent quickly. So there is definitely a way to go "all-in" or more combo oriented with this type of deck. While that is a way you can go, this is not the way this deck functions. This deck is built as a more all around tempo deck and one that can compete in a large tournament setting. Thats's not to say a more aggressive/suicide version couldn't do well in a tournament setting (obviously The_Hobbit was able to go 4-0), but I feel that a more well rounded version of the deck would perform better against a larger percentage of the field.
This particular deck is built to be a tempo deck with early pressure backed up with removal, counter magic, and reach to finish the opponent. The deck was not intended to act as a combo deck. However, the idea of unblockable creatures that are pumped can be utilized in that way. I wanted to build a tempo deck that did not suffer from the typical pitfalls of tempo of not being able to attack through blockers and not being able to come from behind to win. The factors cannot fully be overcome, but they can be diminished with the unblockable and protection spells.
In the end, the suicide/combo style kiln fiend decks can and will be successful and are really fun to play. However, that is not what we are going for with this deck. We are taking advantage of the ability to utilize the raw power of kiln fiend, geist, delver by making them unblockable and impossible to kill (protected) while backing them up with efficient removal, counter magic, and reach (burn).
I do tend to "over test" sometimes and come up with tons of ideas so I will make that the list I post is the most efficient list possible. I always respect your opinion and will make sure to stay aware that the deck needs to have early and often pressure to succeed. I will test a version with more pressure to see if it performs better in the long run as well. As always, thank you for your help. Also your standard deck sounds awesome and a ton of fun to play. I have been testing with the Elusive Spellfist to try to get him into modern. Thanks and again for your comments and your help with the deck.
As for recent changes/updates to the deck, I did remove the anticipates because they were a little slow and added a Perilous Research and Myth Realized to add more pressure and aggressiveness to the main deck. I am also testing a Spell Snare in the slot that is filled by myth realized to see if additional counter magic is more successful.
I know it seems slow, but has anything me thought of Bident of Thassa as a 1-2 of along side cantrips, pure card advantage spells, or manlands like Faerie Conclave?
I know it seems slow, but has anything me thought of Bident of Thassa as a 1-2 of along side cantrips, pure card advantage spells, or manlands like Faerie Conclave?
DoggieDoo- Great call on Faerie Conclave. Your exactly right that Faerie Conclave is a very underrated card, especially in this type of deck. I have not given enough time talking about this card in the deck. Utility lands are super important in today's and Faerie Conclave is often overlooked. I don't think it's to slow at all. I have been playing it as a one of for awhile now and it is very beneficial in games that stretch out longer than I would prefer. It's a great way to have a late game option with out raising the curve of the deck. Because the deck can often function on 2-3 lands, the downside of coming in tapped is not very harmful. I think it is often overlooked because everyone that plays U and W wants to play celestial colonnade, but colonnade only works if you get a ton of mana.
I have been tinkering with a transitional sideboard into more of a midrange/control build. I think Bident of Thassa fits right into that build. Also I am convinced that a more midrange/control build of this style deck can be built with Monastery Mentor, Narset, etc. It would obviously attack on a wide angle instead of with large chunks of quick damage, but it would be a ton of fun. I think Bident of Thassa the card advantage style card that style deck would utilize wonderfully.
I know it seems slow, but has anything me thought of Bident of Thassa as a 1-2 of along side cantrips, pure card advantage spells, or manlands like Faerie Conclave?
DoggieDoo- Great call on Faerie Conclave.
I have been tinkering with a transitional sideboard into more of a midrange/control build. I think Bident of Thassa fits right into that build. Also I am convinced that a more midrange/control build of this style deck can be built with Monastery Mentor, Narset, etc. It would obviously attack on a wide angle instead of with large chunks of quick damage, but it would be a ton of fun. I think Bident of Thassa the card advantage style card that style deck would utilize wonderfully.
Thanks for posting and for the awesome ideas.
You're welcome.
Now you'll just have to learn the video setup from the Modern Nexus elves guy!
Feel free to PM the info he sends you, always been looking for a convenient way to record videos.
I know it seems slow, but has anything me thought of Bident of Thassa as a 1-2 of along side cantrips, pure card advantage spells, or manlands like Faerie Conclave?
DoggieDoo- Great call on Faerie Conclave.
I have been tinkering with a transitional sideboard into more of a midrange/control build. I think Bident of Thassa fits right into that build. Also I am convinced that a more midrange/control build of this style deck can be built with Monastery Mentor, Narset, etc. It would obviously attack on a wide angle instead of with large chunks of quick damage, but it would be a ton of fun. I think Bident of Thassa the card advantage style card that style deck would utilize wonderfully.
Thanks for posting and for the awesome ideas.
You're welcome.
Now you'll just have to learn the video setup from the Modern Nexus elves guy!
Feel free to PM the info he sends you, always been looking for a convenient way to record videos.
I definitely will send that to you when I get the info. My brother Taylor has been playing Green Elves Devotion Combo in modern since they printed Nykthos (He runs the Green Devotion primer). We are trying to record matches with our decks so people can really get a feel for how they play out against certain matchups. The idea is to play the decks against all of the major tier 1 and tier 2 decks on video to show how the matchups go and to show what we side in and out during the match. It will be fun once we figure it out.
I will keep you posted and PM you with any info I get. I always love seeing videos of modern matches, especially if a cool brew is being played.
The mana base isn't set yet but the deck is primarily white with a blue accent. Hero's Blade works nice with the 8 legendary critters, as do the Castles. Everything is about efficiency and versatility.
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
The mana base isn't set yet but the deck is primarily white with a blue accent. Hero's Blade works nice with the 8 legendary critters, as do the Castles. Everything is about efficiency and versatility.
Very cool list! I have often wondered about Hero's Blade and Artful Manuever. I would love to hear how each of those cards play for you. I don't think you need the red splash. I think your deck looks very good as it is currently constructed.
The following is my unrequsted advice. I always provide my opinion on what I feel would help the deck, but since you didn't as for any help just skip the next paragraph if your not looking for other opinions on the build. I hate when people just say you need to remove card A and add card B as if they always know what is best so I am hesitant to state my opinions. I can't promise any of them will be 100% correct, but I can promise I have played a ton of modern and this is what I would do:
If it were my deck I would remove 2-4 center souls, 2 valorous stance, 2 azorious charms, and 1-2 artful maneuvers and add 3-4 path to exile and a combination of 2-4 remands/mana leak/deprive, 1-2 spell pierce/spell snare and 3-4 serum visions. If only a few changes are made I think Path to Exile is a must in modern if your playing white. My opinion is without seeing the sideboard and without testing your build so I am sure I am wrong on several points.
I have been wanting to build a more controlling version of the deck that is primarily UW so I could play my Narset's. If you don't minde, I will probably utilize your list as the basis for the UW version. I would love to hear how the deck is testing and what cards are overachieving in your mind.
Very cool list and thank you for sharing. Keep us all posted on your progress!
Thanks for the positive post. As to why there is no path, well I personally don't think when you're playing a tempo type deck, you should grant tempo advantage to your opponent. I mean path is the best universal single drop removal in the game but giving a land to my opponent hurts, especially if I'm trying to out tempo them. Yeah Center Soul is kinda janky, but it is a worse emerge unscathe that triggers prowess twice and grants color immunity, which all the creatures in this deck sorely need. The most important thing for this deck is to get a threat down and make it stick, at least that's what I'm finding. Shu and Mentor can easily overtake a game if they are allowed to untap. Geist, well it has a history of doing just that as well, provided it can get through for damage. I'm liking Artful Maneuvers a lot. On prowess guys it amounts to a +3 power bump. I was actually contemplating adding green for Noble Hierarch and Prey's Vengeance. Remand is another one I'm kinda curious to try. Card draw and an extra turn to prep for something bad seems pretty good. I will say that Hero's Blade can be back breaking. Shu Yun can swing for a minimum of 10 damage, and thats without and prowess triggers. Geist becomes a beefy 5/4 swing for 9 with his angel buddy. ANd Mentor, well it puts him out of bolt range which is big enough since him and his monks can end a game really fast.
I actually thought about Narset a bit with this. Really anxious to hear your results.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Thanks for the positive post. As to why there is no path, well I personally don't think when you're playing a tempo type deck, you should grant tempo advantage to your opponent. I mean path is the best universal single drop removal in the game but giving a land to my opponent hurts, especially if I'm trying to out tempo them. Yeah Center Soul is kinda janky, but it is a worse emerge unscathe that triggers prowess twice and grants color immunity, which all the creatures in this deck sorely need. The most important thing for this deck is to get a threat down and make it stick, at least that's what I'm finding. Shu and Mentor can easily overtake a game if they are allowed to untap. Geist, well it has a history of doing just that as well, provided it can get through for damage. I'm liking Artful Maneuvers a lot. On prowess guys it amounts to a +3 power bump. I was actually contemplating adding green for Noble Hierarch and Prey's Vengeance. Remand is another one I'm kinda curious to try. Card draw and an extra turn to prep for something bad seems pretty good. I will say that Hero's Blade can be back breaking. Shu Yun can swing for a minimum of 10 damage, and thats without and prowess triggers. Geist becomes a beefy 5/4 swing for 9 with his angel buddy. ANd Mentor, well it puts him out of bolt range which is big enough since him and his monks can end a game really fast.
I actually thought about Narset a bit with this. Really anxious to hear your results.
Awesome post. I am definitely going to give artful maneuver and hero's blade a try. I will let you know when I get a chance to build a UW version of the deck and test it. I have often thought noble heirarch would be awesome. A turn two Geist, Shu Yun, or Monastery Mentor would be amazing. I might have to give bant a try, although I am very partial to red if I am splashing a third color.
Thanks again for the awesome deck idea and I hope it continues to destroy your opponents.
Advantage of R is cheap Doublestriking effects.
As well Path become tempo in the sense that they might get a land but you successfully traded a card and one white man's for their blocker/attacker/utility that they likely invested way more into. That means damage getting through and damage/untillity NOT hurting you.
Has anyone tried running with Ascendancy? I mean my standard version can chain back to back spells into a straight win between evasion, pumps, and the looting. I liked the idea of running the Emerge Unscathed and such because of how potent you can make protecting buy negating removal spells but ALSO by getting creatures able to attack past a field of blockers. Apostles Blessing, God's Willing, the new rebound pro-color, and older tried and true means.
Advantage of R is cheap Doublestriking effects.
As well Path become tempo in the sense that they might get a land but you successfully traded a card and one white man's for their blocker/attacker/utility that they likely invested way more into. That means damage getting through and damage/untillity NOT hurting you.
Has anyone tried running with Ascendancy? I mean my standard version can chain back to back spells into a straight win between evasion, pumps, and the looting. I liked the idea of running the Emerge Unscathed and such because of how potent you can make protecting buy negating removal spells but ALSO by getting creatures able to attack past a field of blockers. Apostles Blessing, God's Willing, the new rebound pro-color, and older tried and true means.
I agree that red gives us the best chance to be aggressive. Green gives the ability to ramp into bigger effects. I would love to see a bant list of the deck.
I also agree that the drawback of path to exile (giving the opponent a land) is slightly less painful against our deck because we try to win so quickly. Path was better when pod was ruling the meta, but with all of the collected company decks running around again, Path to Exile is going to be super important again.
As for my build, I have been trying Surrakar Spellblade as a one and two of lately and he has been extremely good. Because we can protect him and get in through he can draw a ton of cards and keep our hand full of gas. I was very excited to see that he is in Modern Masters 2015 as well. I have some pretty extensive testing notes from this past weekened, so I will post the notes from my testing to give everyone a view about how certain matchups played out in my testing.
As for my build, I have been trying Surrakar Spellblade as a one and two of lately and he has been extremely good. Because we can protect him and get in through he can draw a ton of cards and keep our hand full of gas. I was very excited to see that he is in Modern Masters 2015 as well. I have some pretty extensive testing notes from this past weekened, so I will post the notes from my testing to give everyone a view about how certain matchups played out in my testing.
a similar effect could be obtained with ninja of the deep hours. We have a lot of unblockable effects so we may use ninjutsu most of the time I guess.
What do you think of it?
As for my build, I have been trying Surrakar Spellblade as a one and two of lately and he has been extremely good. Because we can protect him and get in through he can draw a ton of cards and keep our hand full of gas. I was very excited to see that he is in Modern Masters 2015 as well. I have some pretty extensive testing notes from this past weekened, so I will post the notes from my testing to give everyone a view about how certain matchups played out in my testing.
a similar effect could be obtained with ninja of the deep hours. We have a lot of unblockable effects so we may use ninjutsu most of the time I guess.
What do you think of it?
Can you post your latest build too?
You definitely can get a similar effect from ninja of the deep hours. He will get you a card for one less mana. I have seen delver decks in the past that run Ninja of the Deep Hours that have performed very well. Card advantage is a huge help to this archetype. If I built a very aggressive version I think ninja would be an amazing addition.
However, because our threats are often hitting for more than two damage so I don't want to trade the additional damage for the ninjitsu affect. Also Surrakar Spellblade often draws 3+ cards during a game. I wouldn't fault anyone for playing ninja of the deep hours, and I haven't tested with it personally so I am don't have enough to experience to say which is better. I will test Ninjo ODH as soon as I can. I do know that Surrakar Spellblade has really overperformed for me. On another note, I do think Surrakar Spellblade needs to be in a deck with protection spells as he is somewhat fragile for a three drop.
Another option I have looked at in the past is Augury Adept because I am always looking for life gain to help with our life loss from mana fixing early in the game. However, because our spells are low costed, she just wasn't doing enough. In a meta full of aggro decks Augury Adept might be a decent option.
I am currently playing Surrakar Spellblade as a one of in my deck, but may add an additional copy to the sideboard for more gridy matchups.
The slots I am currently questioning/testing are the Myth Realized and the Surrakar Spellblade slot. I would really like to get an additional copy of Emerge Unscathed and another counterspell like Deprive or Mana Leak. Right now I am keeping it as it is above and the deck has been performing extremely well. If the meta *****s a bit to more combo I will probably remove the myth realized and add another counterspell.
***EDIT****- After testing tonight I found that Grim Lavamaner just fits the deck much better than Myth Realized. I just don't think our deck has enough mana to support Myth Realized and it often just felt like a 4/4 or 5/5 by the end of the game that didn't help much. So Grim Lavamancer has been added in it place. ***EDIT***
In the sideboard there are two slots that are currently being rotated- the Sower of Temptation slot and the Counterflux slot. I have seen a slight uptick in storm and twin in my area so Counterflux has been very good. Soulfire Grandmaster is an experiment I am currently trying out in the sower slot, but that slot has also been filled with Grim Lavamancer, Aven Mindcensor, and Sword of Feast and Famine in the past. A sideboard card I am really interested in bringing back to my build is Hibernation if the Collected Company and Green Devotion decks keep performing well and growing in meta share. As you know, the sideboard is a never ending project and is always changing with the meta.
Let me know what you think and if you get a chance to test the deck or a similar build. I am a little biased, but I really think this deck can be a tier one deck because it attacks on a completely different axis than other decks in the meta. I would to hear other player's ideas and and similar decklists. I am always open to constructed criticism as well.
Strategy against Burn- Burn is a tough matchup for most decks, however, we have some very useful cards against burn in our main deck and several great sideboard cards. Our best main deck cards in the matchup are Lightning Helix, Emerge Unscathed, Delver of Secrets, Distortion Strike, and Spell Pierce. Our goal is to play as a pure tempo deck against the burn deck. It's tough to race a burn deck, but that is basically what we have to do in game one.
A main goal in game one is to keep any of their sources of repeatable damage off of the board with removal. This is key to winning game one. If we can do so with a Lightning Helix that is best case scenario. Also, this deck tends to start at 17 life after fetching for our first shock land. We do need to concentrate on trying to minimize the life loss from fetching, but sometimes it's unavoidable. Another key factor to winning against most decks, but this deck in particular, is having an early threat that we can protect. If we can flip a delver we are in great shape. In addition, if they waste a burn spell trying to kill our early threat and we are able to protect it with a counter spell, emerge unscathed, or boros charm that is huge momentum swing against a burn deck.
Games
Game 1 (on the draw) - He landed a turn one Goblin Guide, turn two Monastery Swiftspear with a Lava Spike. Suffice to say I was low on life pretty quickly. I was able to bolt the Goblin Guide, but another swiftspear and an [Atarka's Command[/card] all but killed me. I think he finished my off with a Boros Charm. My hand included a Kiln Fiend, Gitaxian Probe, Serum Visions, and lands. It was probably not the best keep, but I play game one as if it's an unknown opponent. I drew into a Lightning Bolt and a Geist of Saint Traft, but it was too little too late. Sometimes when burn has a great hand on the play, it doesn't really matter what your hand looks like.
Plan- The sideboard plan is to basically go slightly more controlling and attack for large chunks of damage with our powerful unblockable creatures. Basically plan A with the deck. We have a very good sideboard against this deck with several cards they aren't really accustomed to facing. Make sure to cast Soulfire Grandmaster after they use a their removal or when you have protection (Emerge Unscathed preferably) if possible. If she can stick for a turn or two then you are almost always going to win the game. In addition, they never see Deflecting Palm coming so it is normally a blow out. Keep a look out for Blood Moon and remember to fetch as if blood moon was sided in if you can. If I see blood moon I normally side in one or two wear/tear because they also hit any problem artifact and/or Eidolon of the Great Revel. Post sideboard we should be favored.
Game 3 (on the draw)- This game went to plan. I had a fairly controlling opening hand with Negate, Spell Pierce, Lightning Bolt, Geist of Saint Traft, Island, Flooded Strand, and Slayer's Stronghold. Although we don't have an early threat this is a definite keep. The burn player opened with a Monastery Swiftspear and attached. We then killed the Swiftpear on our turn but had to fetch for a Sacred Foundry. Unfortunately, the burn player kept a one lander and didn't hit another land for two turns so we didn't learn much from this game. By the time they had their second land we had our Geist of Saint Traft on the battlefield and were able to counter his next couple of plays. The Geist beats were enough to close this one out.
Game 4 (on the draw)- This was the most interesting game of the bunch. We had to mulligan to 6 but had Soulfire Grandmaster in hand with a Lightning Helix so I kept. I was really interested in seeing how well the Soulfire Grandmaster played in this matchup. I tried to be very patient to get the grandmaster out with protection, but by the time I did get it out I was down to 9 life. The Soulfire Grandmaster/Lightning Helix combination worked exactly like I had hoped. It gained us 6 life on the spot. The next turn a distortion strike on the grandmaster gained us another 3 life with her lifelink ability. Soulfire Grandmaster basically won this game on her own. One turn she did get Atarka's Commanded so out lightning bolt didn't gain life, but we still pulled the game out. With that said, the game was still close.
Game 5 (on the draw)- We mulliganed to 6 again in this game, but we were not as lucky with our six. We did have a Spellskite, but it was killed while honorably blocking a swiftspear with a Searing Blood. A Deflecting Palm on their rift bolt was the highlight of this game, but two goblin guides and two swiftspears backed up with burn spells were able to kill me.
Game 6 (on the play)- This was another somewhat quick game. The delver beats ensued. We flipped delver on turn two and were able to protect with Emerge Unscathed. The opponent spent most of their spells targeted at my face. This let a Kiln Fiend attack on turn four for 11 damage with a Distortion Strike, a Path to Exile, and a Serum Visions. The Kiln Fiend, Delver, and burn damage was enough to win this game rather easily.
Overall- 4-2
Odds (In my opinion)
Game 1- 40%-50%
Game 2/3- 55%- 65%
I will post testing notes from a new matchup each day or two. I will try to be as detailed about what happened as possible, but it takes a long time to type these out so I will mostly just hit on the main topics of the game regarding the Jeskai Prowess/Unblockable deck. Please let me know if there is a matchup you would like me to test against or to write about if I have already tested against it. Thanks for reading!
Thank you for these great notes!
Really deep and useful!
For now I have a more "philosofical" question about this building.
What is the main conceptual difference between this deck and the classic UR Delver decks that are around?
I mean, I can see this is more focused on unblockability and creature protection while the "classic" ones on single card power, but in the end, a good fraction of cards are the same.
Can the opponent distinguish this difference during a match?, or is the difference just due to few splashes that can happen during the match or not?
Does this deck attack really on a different angle?
Don't get me wrong, I think this list is great, I just want to fully understand how to play it at best!
BTW, do you have test results of matches against classic Delvers?
Thank you for these great notes!
Really deep and useful!
For now I have a more "philosofical" question about this building.
What is the main conceptual difference between this deck and the classic UR Delver decks that are around?
I mean, I can see this is more focused on unblockability and creature protection while the "classic" ones on single card power, but in the end, a good fraction of cards are the same.
Can the opponent distinguish this difference during a match?, or is the difference just due to few splashes that can happen during the match or not?
Does this deck attack really on a different angle?
Don't get me wrong, I think this list is great, I just want to fully understand how to play it at best!
BTW, do you have test results of matches against classic Delvers?
LL
That is a great question lordlukas. I really wish there were more members like yourself that asked great questions that get to the heart of how a deck functions.
History-
I actually played UWR Delver for several years (from 2012). My favorite creature is Geist of Saint Traft and I prefer to play a tempo or aggro/control style deck. I never like the UWR Midrange decks and thought they didn't utilize Geist correctly. I was always frustrated with the UR Delver build as well because it seemed to suffer from two major problems. It had no late game to speak of and if you didn't kill them quickly with an early threat you often could get them low in life, but not dead. This was especially apparent against the old POD and Jund decks. You would often depend on a timely counter spell and/or burn damage to finish the job. So, I began to think how to remedy these problems while maintaining the tempo aspect of the build.
If you look at the UWR Delver primer (where I used to post), I actually went with a more controlling version at first. I added Engineered Explosives to the main board, tinkered with Mantis Rider in the main board, Cryptic Command, and Chandra, Pyromaster. This worked well for a little, but wasn't what I was looking for. I spent time disscussing changes with the UWR Delver forum, but there was just so little innovation going on that I decided to start from sctrach with a new idea based on the Delver shell. However, I did learn that Chandra, Pyromaster is an excellent top end to this deck.
Taking the two main flaws of UR in my opinion into consideration, I thought unblockable abilities and protection would be a great way to add the reach that the deck needed to compete, remove Geist of Saint Traft's only drawback, and also protect our super important early threats. With the release of the prowess creatures, especially Monestary Swiftspear, the idea could come to fruition. I started with a pretty straight forward build while adding three Distortion Strikes and three Emerge Unscathed. This didn't feel explosive enough and I found that more damage would be better. Thats's when I decided to add [card]Kiln Fiend[card] and this made the deck idea complete from a creature stand point. Since then, I have played hundreds, if not, thousands of games with the deck and tweaked it to my likings and what I think is most competitive. I come from the school of Gerard Fabiano as you can probably see from my decks. I like to play a lot of utility cards and several 1 and 2 ofs. I also always play 61 cards for superstitious reasons :). I also find it best instead of 19 lands at 60 cards, 20 lands at 61 has always seemed more consistent to me. This might just be in my head though.
Conceptual Differences-
The differences in the two decks are fairly substantial. In terms of building, the classic UR Delver list plays a lot more of what I call "air" with Thought Scour, 4 ofs of both Gitaxian Probe and Serum Visions. They want to play a critical mass of spells and utilize the graveyard for more value with Snapcaster Mage, Tasigur, The Golden Fang, and Treasure Cruise (We miss you). In addition, I was just never a fan of Young Pyromancer. Young P never really struck me as powerful enough because the deck was forced to play so many low costed, low impact spells to make it work. It also always felt like a win more card to me. I may be wrong, but it never really performed for me.
In terms of play, the classic UR Delver deck plays a classic tempo game with reliance on removal, disruption (counter magic/bounce), in combination with an early threat. However, without a Delver of Secrets the early threats were lacking. This deck played extremely well on the play with an early threat, but any other time, it was tough to really feel comfortable if you didn't have all the right answers. In addition, it relies much more on counter magic because it lacks Path to Exile. Counter magic seems to be on a decline in power level recently in modern.
The Jeskai Prowess deck plays out far more aggressively to begin the game. The threats are all "must answer" threats and most can win the game on their own. This puts the opponent on the defense from the beginning and allows our deck to run fewer counter spells, because the counter spells we do have will be much more effective. The weakness of most aggro/control decks is losing their threats. To counteract this we have added protection in Emerge Unscathed which is often a blowout, Boros Charm, and counter magic. After the initial damage we get to the "value" creatures- Geist of Saint Traft, Kiln Fiend, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, and Surrakar Spellblade. By the time these land we hope to have nearly all of the opponents removal out of their hand by now and one unblockable or protection spell. Then these creatures can either finish the game off with large chunks of damage or gain unbeatable card advantage. In a one sentence answer to your question, the Jeskai Prowess deck is much more explosive/aggressive than the UR Delver deck. That way it can compete with combo decks, aggro decks, and midrange decks in game one. In addition, we can side into a more classic tempo version of a delver deck after board.
Some games will play somewhat similar to the classic UR/UWR Delver deck, but a large majority of the games will be won with an unblockable attack or proteciton blowout. Although the decks do have many cards in particular, the games will play out very differently.
Opponent-
Most opponents cannot distinguish the difference until it's too late. They often play as if they are playing delver and simply don't have enough answers. If you get a Distortion Strike or Emerge Unscathed in game one they will definitely not see it coming. This unknown information is very valuable and once they do know about it, they often have a very hard time deciding how to block or when/if to use removal if you have a white mana up. It truly makes a huge difference in game. In addition, most decks will have no answers like Fog or Deflecting Palm in the sideboard because we aren't a tier one deck yet.
Angle-
This is my favorite part of the deck. This deck attacks on an angle that is not really seen in Modern right now and a very different angle from classic UR Delver. Infect and Boggles have some similar aspects, but no deck in modern has the explosive unblockable attacks we have in combination with the removal and disruption we have in the deck. This deck attacks from a very different angle from UR Delver because the opponent is never really safe or never "turns the corner". Any long term Delver player can attest to the fact that often they can feel or see when the opponent "turns the corner" and they no longer have a very good chance of winning the game. In our case, we only need one or two threats and a spell and we can win. I truly believe that unblockable abilities are very underplayed in modern right now. I have played several maatches recently against Collected Company Abzan where I simply attack through their board full of Kitchen Finks, Knight of the Reliquary, and Scavenging Oozes for lethal.
I am a little biased of course, but I find this deck to be unlike any other deck currently in modern. In addition, one of the major positives that Jeskai has always offered is the best sideboard in modern. We can really side into the most successful style of deck against the opponent (more control, more hate, etc) after practice.
I will say that this deck does take a good bit of practice to know when to keep the pressure on and when to sit back and wait for another spell to make the attack more successful. It also takes practice to know what deck to side into against each opponent, but that can be said about most modern decks. I really think if you give the deck a try you will really enjoy playing it and you will find it is very competitive. I will keep posting testing notes to try to give everyone an idea of how to play the deck and how games play out. I hope that helps. I will also play against classic Delver and the popular Grixis Delver tonight and post the notes. I will also try to get a matchup guide together. Off the top of my head the only bad matchups I can think of game one are Amulet Bloom, Mono Blue Tron (sometimes),Soul Sisters, Boggles, and pure control (Jeskai or Esper). However, we do have sideboard cards for those matchups and early aggression can beat all of them. In addition, they are slightly fringe decks as well which helps not seeing them that often.
Please let me know if you have any more questions or any other matchups you would like me to test against. I am also working on getting videos of the deck posted on youtube so people can see the deck in action. Thanks again for our interest and your help!
thank you for taking time to explain what is behind this deck. It seems you made a long journey before landing to your current configuration.
I have just bought most of the (cheapest!) cards, so I'm starting to test it on the real world.
I'm thinking about these kind of cards that I don't see dicussed in your deck:
1) Some bouncing effects like echoing truth to gain time against annoying permanents?
2) A protection and advantage card like Hindering Light? Actually I have already tested it and it seems it stands in my hand too long, waiting for some opposite removal
3) Is Ojutai exemplars too slow and not so impacting? They could get lifelink
4) Alesha, who smiles at death: It can get you back Snapcaster Mage, Geist of Saint Traft... well, all except Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest.
Probably 2) and 3) are too cute, so I want to try extensively 1) and 4).
thank you for taking time to explain what is behind this deck. It seems you made a long journey before landing to your current configuration.
I have just bought most of the (cheapest!) cards, so I'm starting to test it on the real world.
I'm thinking about these kind of cards that I don't see dicussed in your deck:
1) Some bouncing effects like echoing truth to gain time against annoying permanents?
2) A protection and advantage card like Hindering Light? Actually I have already tested it and it seems it stands in my hand too long, waiting for some opposite removal
3) Is Ojutai exemplars too slow and not so impacting? They could get lifelink
4) Alesha, who smiles at death: It can get you back Snapcaster Mage, Geist of Saint Traft... well, all except Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest.
Probably 2) and 3) are too cute, so I want to try extensively 1) and 4).
LL
I love the way you think about deck construction. I think all 4 ideas are worth looking into. I especially like Alesha, Who Smiles at Death. That looks like a great way to add card advantage in the late game. It can get Kiln Fiend back as well.
I have thought about Ojutai Exemplars as well. I have not tested them enough to say if they are good or bad in the deck, but I assume it is a fine top end given the right meta. Because the deck often starts at 17 life after a fetch land into shock land, I have looked for ways to get lifelink into the deck. I have been liking Soulfire Grandmaster in the sideboard, but a mainboard lifelinker would be great.
Surprisingly enough I have tried Hindering Light in the past (your right, it has taken me a very long time to get to the current deck). I agree with what you said. It just stayed in my hand too often. I don't think it is bad by any means and in a removal heavy meta it should work great, it just doesn't work well enough against an unknown meta in my opinion.
As for a bounce effect you may be on to something. I had an Echoing Truth in the sideboard for a bit, but wasn't siding it in enough. If it was in the mainboard it would probably be much better. Any effect that can be useful in multiple matchups is probably going to be a great addition. Let me know how that works for you. If it works out I will definitely test it out.
I highly recommend tuning your personal deck to your likings. That is one of the benefits to this deck. It has several slots that can be changed. I love playing lesser known cards and love to see that you are looking into new awesome ideas. That's how a deck moves forward and gets better. I really think this deck is very well situated right now, especially with all of the Collected Company decks going around. I just wish I could get the deck out there so pros would try it. It have a tough time having enough time to set aside to play a daily on MTGO, but I am working on making videos for the deck.
Thanks again for writing and for adding all of the new fresh ideas!
Lifelink is a very real thing to look into but not at the sacrifice of card slots. Exemplars feels too slow. Especially in a tight mana three color deck. It's WW and a four drop. So you have to hit 4 lands AND have the WW. In most cases the right answer should be more to simply try to kill them out. If you can find something that HAPPEN to give Lifelink in addition to something else that's a bonus but going out of your way to force it can be a back fire. I had an old Boros deck(often kept splashing U) during Timespiral/Lorwyn block standard that had a ton of Lifelink from Spiritlink(now this is a notable and possible worthwhile try since you can "lock out" one of their attackers), Spiritloop(how to piss off your burn and aggro friends 101), Scourge of the Noblis(when running enough hybrid RW creatures it's great to just push far ahead on damage and life gain. Not as easy in Modern).
Try upping Lighting Helix count to 3-4 since not only is it a great removal/burn but can pull you back out of range of death.
OH! Maybe it's time to see if Jeskai Charm can hang in Modern. It's burn, it's bounce, and it's boosting your team and giving that Lifelink you were wanting to find room for.
I'm a big supporter of trying to go explosive and hit some Double Strike damage hard. Maybe try a few Fatal Frenzy to help go over the top?
Oh and whilst reviewing through random stuff the other day I reminded my self that Wings of Velis-Vel are a better Dance of the Skywise, if anyone remembers me mentioning my standard Jeskai "Sneaky Fists" build.
Lifelink is a very real thing to look into but not at the sacrifice of card slots. Exemplars feels too slow. Especially in a tight mana three color deck. It's WW and a four drop. So you have to hit 4 lands AND have the WW. In most cases the right answer should be more to simply try to kill them out. If you can find something that HAPPEN to give Lifelink in addition to something else that's a bonus but going out of your way to force it can be a back fire. I had an old Boros deck(often kept splashing U) during Timespiral/Lorwyn block standard that had a ton of Lifelink from Spiritlink(now this is a notable and possible worthwhile try since you can "lock out" one of their attackers), Spiritloop(how to piss off your burn and aggro friends 101), Scourge of the Noblis(when running enough hybrid RW creatures it's great to just push far ahead on damage and life gain. Not as easy in Modern).
Try upping Lighting Helix count to 3-4 since not only is it a great removal/burn but can pull you back out of range of death.
OH! Maybe it's time to see if Jeskai Charm can hang in Modern. It's burn, it's bounce, and it's boosting your team and giving that Lifelink you were wanting to find room for.
I'm a big supporter of trying to go explosive and hit some Double Strike damage hard. Maybe try a few Fatal Frenzy to help go over the top?
I have to agree with you there. WW is extremely hard to get in the deck. It is easier when it's your 4 drop, but with Chandra already at RR it the card would have to be extremely good to warrant it's inclusion. I also agree that the lifelink would have be in addition to something else that fits the strategy of the deck. Your correct in saying that, in the end, the deck wants to be aggressive and get them dead quickly or at least put pressure on them from the beginning.
I have tested Augury Adept in the past, but Surrakar Spellblade has just performed much better in terms of a late game finisher. I also used to have Azorious Charm in the sideboard, but it just seemed very underwhelming every time I sided it in. Another suggestion I have heard is Seeker of the Way, however he just isn't aggressive/powerful enough. Very early in the creation of the deck I did have one Jeskai Charm in the deck, but it I found other three drops to be more effective. However, I haven't tested it in some time and/or in the most recent build of the deck. Fatal Frenzy may fall into the same category of just too expensive for the result. It would definitely win the game, but may be just win more. You can never know until you test it though.
I think your solution might be the best. Adding an additional Lightning Helix is probably our best bet. It is particularly strong with Soulfire Grandmaster. I will be giving this a try as well as testing a Jeskai Charm in the sideboard and mainboard.
Thanks as always for the great ideas! In testing and FNM this deck has been doing very well lately (especially with the rise of Collected Company decks). Anything to make the deck even better is awesome.
Oh and whilst reviewing through random stuff the other day I reminded my self that Wings of Velis-Vel are a better Dance of the Skywise, if anyone remembers me mentioning my standard Jeskai "Sneaky Fists" build.
Have you thought of making a modern version of your "Sneaky Fists" deck?
I have, but a lot of the cards unless I have duplicates are tied up in either my Standard Sneaky Fists or in my Modern Boros decks. Or happen to be lost in some random Naya or weirdo number of decks that I build from time to time because of boredom and cards are just sitting there. LOL
Great timing for your comment. The_Hobbit went 4-0 in the most recent daily 4/14/15 with an example of a more all in aggressive version of this idea. It utilized Kiln Fiend and Nivix Cyclops and a bunch of pump/unblockable spells to kill the opponent quickly. So there is definitely a way to go "all-in" or more combo oriented with this type of deck. While that is a way you can go, this is not the way this deck functions. This deck is built as a more all around tempo deck and one that can compete in a large tournament setting. Thats's not to say a more aggressive/suicide version couldn't do well in a tournament setting (obviously The_Hobbit was able to go 4-0), but I feel that a more well rounded version of the deck would perform better against a larger percentage of the field.
This particular deck is built to be a tempo deck with early pressure backed up with removal, counter magic, and reach to finish the opponent. The deck was not intended to act as a combo deck. However, the idea of unblockable creatures that are pumped can be utilized in that way. I wanted to build a tempo deck that did not suffer from the typical pitfalls of tempo of not being able to attack through blockers and not being able to come from behind to win. The factors cannot fully be overcome, but they can be diminished with the unblockable and protection spells.
In the end, the suicide/combo style kiln fiend decks can and will be successful and are really fun to play. However, that is not what we are going for with this deck. We are taking advantage of the ability to utilize the raw power of kiln fiend, geist, delver by making them unblockable and impossible to kill (protected) while backing them up with efficient removal, counter magic, and reach (burn).
I do tend to "over test" sometimes and come up with tons of ideas so I will make that the list I post is the most efficient list possible. I always respect your opinion and will make sure to stay aware that the deck needs to have early and often pressure to succeed. I will test a version with more pressure to see if it performs better in the long run as well. As always, thank you for your help. Also your standard deck sounds awesome and a ton of fun to play. I have been testing with the Elusive Spellfist to try to get him into modern. Thanks and again for your comments and your help with the deck.
As for recent changes/updates to the deck, I did remove the anticipates because they were a little slow and added a Perilous Research and Myth Realized to add more pressure and aggressiveness to the main deck. I am also testing a Spell Snare in the slot that is filled by myth realized to see if additional counter magic is more successful.
DoggieDoo- Great call on Faerie Conclave. Your exactly right that Faerie Conclave is a very underrated card, especially in this type of deck. I have not given enough time talking about this card in the deck. Utility lands are super important in today's and Faerie Conclave is often overlooked. I don't think it's to slow at all. I have been playing it as a one of for awhile now and it is very beneficial in games that stretch out longer than I would prefer. It's a great way to have a late game option with out raising the curve of the deck. Because the deck can often function on 2-3 lands, the downside of coming in tapped is not very harmful. I think it is often overlooked because everyone that plays U and W wants to play celestial colonnade, but colonnade only works if you get a ton of mana.
I have been tinkering with a transitional sideboard into more of a midrange/control build. I think Bident of Thassa fits right into that build. Also I am convinced that a more midrange/control build of this style deck can be built with Monastery Mentor, Narset, etc. It would obviously attack on a wide angle instead of with large chunks of quick damage, but it would be a ton of fun. I think Bident of Thassa the card advantage style card that style deck would utilize wonderfully.
Thanks for posting and for the awesome ideas.
You're welcome.
Now you'll just have to learn the video setup from the Modern Nexus elves guy!
Feel free to PM the info he sends you, always been looking for a convenient way to record videos.
I definitely will send that to you when I get the info. My brother Taylor has been playing Green Elves Devotion Combo in modern since they printed Nykthos (He runs the Green Devotion primer). We are trying to record matches with our decks so people can really get a feel for how they play out against certain matchups. The idea is to play the decks against all of the major tier 1 and tier 2 decks on video to show how the matchups go and to show what we side in and out during the match. It will be fun once we figure it out.
I will keep you posted and PM you with any info I get. I always love seeing videos of modern matches, especially if a cool brew is being played.
My current list looks something like this:
Geist of Saint Traft x4
Monastery Mentor x4
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest x4
Silence x3
Azorius Charm x4
Gitaxian Probe x4
Valorous Stance x4
Artful Maneuver x4
Center Soul x4
Emerge Unscathed x4
Hero's Blade x3
Adarkar Wastes x4
Seachrome Coast x4
Glacial Fortress x1
Flooded Strand x4
Hallowed Fountain x2
Eiganjo Castle x 2
Plains x4
The mana base isn't set yet but the deck is primarily white with a blue accent. Hero's Blade works nice with the 8 legendary critters, as do the Castles. Everything is about efficiency and versatility.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Very cool list! I have often wondered about Hero's Blade and Artful Manuever. I would love to hear how each of those cards play for you. I don't think you need the red splash. I think your deck looks very good as it is currently constructed.
The following is my unrequsted advice. I always provide my opinion on what I feel would help the deck, but since you didn't as for any help just skip the next paragraph if your not looking for other opinions on the build. I hate when people just say you need to remove card A and add card B as if they always know what is best so I am hesitant to state my opinions. I can't promise any of them will be 100% correct, but I can promise I have played a ton of modern and this is what I would do:
If it were my deck I would remove 2-4 center souls, 2 valorous stance, 2 azorious charms, and 1-2 artful maneuvers and add 3-4 path to exile and a combination of 2-4 remands/mana leak/deprive, 1-2 spell pierce/spell snare and 3-4 serum visions. If only a few changes are made I think Path to Exile is a must in modern if your playing white. My opinion is without seeing the sideboard and without testing your build so I am sure I am wrong on several points.
I have been wanting to build a more controlling version of the deck that is primarily UW so I could play my Narset's. If you don't minde, I will probably utilize your list as the basis for the UW version. I would love to hear how the deck is testing and what cards are overachieving in your mind.
Very cool list and thank you for sharing. Keep us all posted on your progress!
I actually thought about Narset a bit with this. Really anxious to hear your results.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Awesome post. I am definitely going to give artful maneuver and hero's blade a try. I will let you know when I get a chance to build a UW version of the deck and test it. I have often thought noble heirarch would be awesome. A turn two Geist, Shu Yun, or Monastery Mentor would be amazing. I might have to give bant a try, although I am very partial to red if I am splashing a third color.
Thanks again for the awesome deck idea and I hope it continues to destroy your opponents.
As well Path become tempo in the sense that they might get a land but you successfully traded a card and one white man's for their blocker/attacker/utility that they likely invested way more into. That means damage getting through and damage/untillity NOT hurting you.
Has anyone tried running with Ascendancy? I mean my standard version can chain back to back spells into a straight win between evasion, pumps, and the looting. I liked the idea of running the Emerge Unscathed and such because of how potent you can make protecting buy negating removal spells but ALSO by getting creatures able to attack past a field of blockers. Apostles Blessing, God's Willing, the new rebound pro-color, and older tried and true means.
I agree that red gives us the best chance to be aggressive. Green gives the ability to ramp into bigger effects. I would love to see a bant list of the deck.
I also agree that the drawback of path to exile (giving the opponent a land) is slightly less painful against our deck because we try to win so quickly. Path was better when pod was ruling the meta, but with all of the collected company decks running around again, Path to Exile is going to be super important again.
As for my build, I have been trying Surrakar Spellblade as a one and two of lately and he has been extremely good. Because we can protect him and get in through he can draw a ton of cards and keep our hand full of gas. I was very excited to see that he is in Modern Masters 2015 as well. I have some pretty extensive testing notes from this past weekened, so I will post the notes from my testing to give everyone a view about how certain matchups played out in my testing.
a similar effect could be obtained with ninja of the deep hours. We have a lot of unblockable effects so we may use ninjutsu most of the time I guess.
What do you think of it?
Can you post your latest build too?
You definitely can get a similar effect from ninja of the deep hours. He will get you a card for one less mana. I have seen delver decks in the past that run Ninja of the Deep Hours that have performed very well. Card advantage is a huge help to this archetype. If I built a very aggressive version I think ninja would be an amazing addition.
However, because our threats are often hitting for more than two damage so I don't want to trade the additional damage for the ninjitsu affect. Also Surrakar Spellblade often draws 3+ cards during a game. I wouldn't fault anyone for playing ninja of the deep hours, and I haven't tested with it personally so I am don't have enough to experience to say which is better. I will test Ninjo ODH as soon as I can. I do know that Surrakar Spellblade has really overperformed for me. On another note, I do think Surrakar Spellblade needs to be in a deck with protection spells as he is somewhat fragile for a three drop.
Another option I have looked at in the past is Augury Adept because I am always looking for life gain to help with our life loss from mana fixing early in the game. However, because our spells are low costed, she just wasn't doing enough. In a meta full of aggro decks Augury Adept might be a decent option.
I am currently playing Surrakar Spellblade as a one of in my deck, but may add an additional copy to the sideboard for more gridy matchups.
Here is my current build:
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Kiln Fiend
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
1 Surrakar Spellblade
1 Grim Lavamancer
Instant/Sorcery
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Serum Visions
3 Distortion Strike
2 Emerge Unscathed
1 Boros Charm
2 Path to Exile
2 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
1 Electrolyze
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Land
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Slayer’s Stronghold
1 Faerie Conclave
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wear/Tear
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Counterflux
1 Rending Volley
1 Celestial Purge
2 Spellskite
1 Soulfire Grandmaster
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Path to Exile
The slots I am currently questioning/testing are the Myth Realized and the Surrakar Spellblade slot. I would really like to get an additional copy of Emerge Unscathed and another counterspell like Deprive or Mana Leak. Right now I am keeping it as it is above and the deck has been performing extremely well. If the meta *****s a bit to more combo I will probably remove the myth realized and add another counterspell.
***EDIT****- After testing tonight I found that Grim Lavamaner just fits the deck much better than Myth Realized. I just don't think our deck has enough mana to support Myth Realized and it often just felt like a 4/4 or 5/5 by the end of the game that didn't help much. So Grim Lavamancer has been added in it place. ***EDIT***
In the sideboard there are two slots that are currently being rotated- the Sower of Temptation slot and the Counterflux slot. I have seen a slight uptick in storm and twin in my area so Counterflux has been very good. Soulfire Grandmaster is an experiment I am currently trying out in the sower slot, but that slot has also been filled with Grim Lavamancer, Aven Mindcensor, and Sword of Feast and Famine in the past. A sideboard card I am really interested in bringing back to my build is Hibernation if the Collected Company and Green Devotion decks keep performing well and growing in meta share. As you know, the sideboard is a never ending project and is always changing with the meta.
Let me know what you think and if you get a chance to test the deck or a similar build. I am a little biased, but I really think this deck can be a tier one deck because it attacks on a completely different axis than other decks in the meta. I would to hear other player's ideas and and similar decklists. I am always open to constructed criticism as well.
Opponent #1- (Naya) Burn
Strategy against Burn- Burn is a tough matchup for most decks, however, we have some very useful cards against burn in our main deck and several great sideboard cards. Our best main deck cards in the matchup are Lightning Helix, Emerge Unscathed, Delver of Secrets, Distortion Strike, and Spell Pierce. Our goal is to play as a pure tempo deck against the burn deck. It's tough to race a burn deck, but that is basically what we have to do in game one.
A main goal in game one is to keep any of their sources of repeatable damage off of the board with removal. This is key to winning game one. If we can do so with a Lightning Helix that is best case scenario. Also, this deck tends to start at 17 life after fetching for our first shock land. We do need to concentrate on trying to minimize the life loss from fetching, but sometimes it's unavoidable. Another key factor to winning against most decks, but this deck in particular, is having an early threat that we can protect. If we can flip a delver we are in great shape. In addition, if they waste a burn spell trying to kill our early threat and we are able to protect it with a counter spell, emerge unscathed, or boros charm that is huge momentum swing against a burn deck.
Games
Game 1 (on the draw) - He landed a turn one Goblin Guide, turn two Monastery Swiftspear with a Lava Spike. Suffice to say I was low on life pretty quickly. I was able to bolt the Goblin Guide, but another swiftspear and an [Atarka's Command[/card] all but killed me. I think he finished my off with a Boros Charm. My hand included a Kiln Fiend, Gitaxian Probe, Serum Visions, and lands. It was probably not the best keep, but I play game one as if it's an unknown opponent. I drew into a Lightning Bolt and a Geist of Saint Traft, but it was too little too late. Sometimes when burn has a great hand on the play, it doesn't really matter what your hand looks like.
Game 2 (on the play)- This time we had a much better opening hand with a Delver of Secrets, Monastery Swiftspear, Serum Visions, Path to Exile, Distortion Strike, Scalding Tarn, and a Steam Vents. This is a great opener. Delver flipped on turn two but was met with a lightning bolt. The swiftspear was able to do a decent chunk of damage with the distortion strike. We also drew a Lightning Helix which is a great card for this matchup. We picked off a Goblin Guide with said Lightning Helix and pretty much cruised from there with a Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Emerge Unscathed, and burn with Boros Charm and Lightning Bolt for the final reach.
Sideboard-
In- Soulfire Grandmaster, Negate, Dispel, Deflecting Palm, Celestial Purge,Spellskite x 2.
Out- Gitaxian Probe x 3, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Chandra, Pyromaster, Surrakar Spellblade, Distortion Strike.
Plan- The sideboard plan is to basically go slightly more controlling and attack for large chunks of damage with our powerful unblockable creatures. Basically plan A with the deck. We have a very good sideboard against this deck with several cards they aren't really accustomed to facing. Make sure to cast Soulfire Grandmaster after they use a their removal or when you have protection (Emerge Unscathed preferably) if possible. If she can stick for a turn or two then you are almost always going to win the game. In addition, they never see Deflecting Palm coming so it is normally a blow out. Keep a look out for Blood Moon and remember to fetch as if blood moon was sided in if you can. If I see blood moon I normally side in one or two wear/tear because they also hit any problem artifact and/or Eidolon of the Great Revel. Post sideboard we should be favored.
Game 3 (on the draw)- This game went to plan. I had a fairly controlling opening hand with Negate, Spell Pierce, Lightning Bolt, Geist of Saint Traft, Island, Flooded Strand, and Slayer's Stronghold. Although we don't have an early threat this is a definite keep. The burn player opened with a Monastery Swiftspear and attached. We then killed the Swiftpear on our turn but had to fetch for a Sacred Foundry. Unfortunately, the burn player kept a one lander and didn't hit another land for two turns so we didn't learn much from this game. By the time they had their second land we had our Geist of Saint Traft on the battlefield and were able to counter his next couple of plays. The Geist beats were enough to close this one out.
Game 4 (on the draw)- This was the most interesting game of the bunch. We had to mulligan to 6 but had Soulfire Grandmaster in hand with a Lightning Helix so I kept. I was really interested in seeing how well the Soulfire Grandmaster played in this matchup. I tried to be very patient to get the grandmaster out with protection, but by the time I did get it out I was down to 9 life. The Soulfire Grandmaster/Lightning Helix combination worked exactly like I had hoped. It gained us 6 life on the spot. The next turn a distortion strike on the grandmaster gained us another 3 life with her lifelink ability. Soulfire Grandmaster basically won this game on her own. One turn she did get Atarka's Commanded so out lightning bolt didn't gain life, but we still pulled the game out. With that said, the game was still close.
Game 5 (on the draw)- We mulliganed to 6 again in this game, but we were not as lucky with our six. We did have a Spellskite, but it was killed while honorably blocking a swiftspear with a Searing Blood. A Deflecting Palm on their rift bolt was the highlight of this game, but two goblin guides and two swiftspears backed up with burn spells were able to kill me.
Game 6 (on the play)- This was another somewhat quick game. The delver beats ensued. We flipped delver on turn two and were able to protect with Emerge Unscathed. The opponent spent most of their spells targeted at my face. This let a Kiln Fiend attack on turn four for 11 damage with a Distortion Strike, a Path to Exile, and a Serum Visions. The Kiln Fiend, Delver, and burn damage was enough to win this game rather easily.
Overall- 4-2
Odds (In my opinion)
Game 1- 40%-50%
Game 2/3- 55%- 65%
I will post testing notes from a new matchup each day or two. I will try to be as detailed about what happened as possible, but it takes a long time to type these out so I will mostly just hit on the main topics of the game regarding the Jeskai Prowess/Unblockable deck. Please let me know if there is a matchup you would like me to test against or to write about if I have already tested against it. Thanks for reading!
Really deep and useful!
For now I have a more "philosofical" question about this building.
What is the main conceptual difference between this deck and the classic UR Delver decks that are around?
I mean, I can see this is more focused on unblockability and creature protection while the "classic" ones on single card power, but in the end, a good fraction of cards are the same.
Can the opponent distinguish this difference during a match?, or is the difference just due to few splashes that can happen during the match or not?
Does this deck attack really on a different angle?
Don't get me wrong, I think this list is great, I just want to fully understand how to play it at best!
BTW, do you have test results of matches against classic Delvers?
LL
That is a great question lordlukas. I really wish there were more members like yourself that asked great questions that get to the heart of how a deck functions.
History-
I actually played UWR Delver for several years (from 2012). My favorite creature is Geist of Saint Traft and I prefer to play a tempo or aggro/control style deck. I never like the UWR Midrange decks and thought they didn't utilize Geist correctly. I was always frustrated with the UR Delver build as well because it seemed to suffer from two major problems. It had no late game to speak of and if you didn't kill them quickly with an early threat you often could get them low in life, but not dead. This was especially apparent against the old POD and Jund decks. You would often depend on a timely counter spell and/or burn damage to finish the job. So, I began to think how to remedy these problems while maintaining the tempo aspect of the build.
If you look at the UWR Delver primer (where I used to post), I actually went with a more controlling version at first. I added Engineered Explosives to the main board, tinkered with Mantis Rider in the main board, Cryptic Command, and Chandra, Pyromaster. This worked well for a little, but wasn't what I was looking for. I spent time disscussing changes with the UWR Delver forum, but there was just so little innovation going on that I decided to start from sctrach with a new idea based on the Delver shell. However, I did learn that Chandra, Pyromaster is an excellent top end to this deck.
Taking the two main flaws of UR in my opinion into consideration, I thought unblockable abilities and protection would be a great way to add the reach that the deck needed to compete, remove Geist of Saint Traft's only drawback, and also protect our super important early threats. With the release of the prowess creatures, especially Monestary Swiftspear, the idea could come to fruition. I started with a pretty straight forward build while adding three Distortion Strikes and three Emerge Unscathed. This didn't feel explosive enough and I found that more damage would be better. Thats's when I decided to add [card]Kiln Fiend[card] and this made the deck idea complete from a creature stand point. Since then, I have played hundreds, if not, thousands of games with the deck and tweaked it to my likings and what I think is most competitive. I come from the school of Gerard Fabiano as you can probably see from my decks. I like to play a lot of utility cards and several 1 and 2 ofs. I also always play 61 cards for superstitious reasons :). I also find it best instead of 19 lands at 60 cards, 20 lands at 61 has always seemed more consistent to me. This might just be in my head though.
Conceptual Differences-
The differences in the two decks are fairly substantial. In terms of building, the classic UR Delver list plays a lot more of what I call "air" with Thought Scour, 4 ofs of both Gitaxian Probe and Serum Visions. They want to play a critical mass of spells and utilize the graveyard for more value with Snapcaster Mage, Tasigur, The Golden Fang, and Treasure Cruise (We miss you). In addition, I was just never a fan of Young Pyromancer. Young P never really struck me as powerful enough because the deck was forced to play so many low costed, low impact spells to make it work. It also always felt like a win more card to me. I may be wrong, but it never really performed for me.
In terms of play, the classic UR Delver deck plays a classic tempo game with reliance on removal, disruption (counter magic/bounce), in combination with an early threat. However, without a Delver of Secrets the early threats were lacking. This deck played extremely well on the play with an early threat, but any other time, it was tough to really feel comfortable if you didn't have all the right answers. In addition, it relies much more on counter magic because it lacks Path to Exile. Counter magic seems to be on a decline in power level recently in modern.
The Jeskai Prowess deck plays out far more aggressively to begin the game. The threats are all "must answer" threats and most can win the game on their own. This puts the opponent on the defense from the beginning and allows our deck to run fewer counter spells, because the counter spells we do have will be much more effective. The weakness of most aggro/control decks is losing their threats. To counteract this we have added protection in Emerge Unscathed which is often a blowout, Boros Charm, and counter magic. After the initial damage we get to the "value" creatures- Geist of Saint Traft, Kiln Fiend, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, and Surrakar Spellblade. By the time these land we hope to have nearly all of the opponents removal out of their hand by now and one unblockable or protection spell. Then these creatures can either finish the game off with large chunks of damage or gain unbeatable card advantage. In a one sentence answer to your question, the Jeskai Prowess deck is much more explosive/aggressive than the UR Delver deck. That way it can compete with combo decks, aggro decks, and midrange decks in game one. In addition, we can side into a more classic tempo version of a delver deck after board.
Some games will play somewhat similar to the classic UR/UWR Delver deck, but a large majority of the games will be won with an unblockable attack or proteciton blowout. Although the decks do have many cards in particular, the games will play out very differently.
Opponent-
Most opponents cannot distinguish the difference until it's too late. They often play as if they are playing delver and simply don't have enough answers. If you get a Distortion Strike or Emerge Unscathed in game one they will definitely not see it coming. This unknown information is very valuable and once they do know about it, they often have a very hard time deciding how to block or when/if to use removal if you have a white mana up. It truly makes a huge difference in game. In addition, most decks will have no answers like Fog or Deflecting Palm in the sideboard because we aren't a tier one deck yet.
Angle-
This is my favorite part of the deck. This deck attacks on an angle that is not really seen in Modern right now and a very different angle from classic UR Delver. Infect and Boggles have some similar aspects, but no deck in modern has the explosive unblockable attacks we have in combination with the removal and disruption we have in the deck. This deck attacks from a very different angle from UR Delver because the opponent is never really safe or never "turns the corner". Any long term Delver player can attest to the fact that often they can feel or see when the opponent "turns the corner" and they no longer have a very good chance of winning the game. In our case, we only need one or two threats and a spell and we can win. I truly believe that unblockable abilities are very underplayed in modern right now. I have played several maatches recently against Collected Company Abzan where I simply attack through their board full of Kitchen Finks, Knight of the Reliquary, and Scavenging Oozes for lethal.
I am a little biased of course, but I find this deck to be unlike any other deck currently in modern. In addition, one of the major positives that Jeskai has always offered is the best sideboard in modern. We can really side into the most successful style of deck against the opponent (more control, more hate, etc) after practice.
I will say that this deck does take a good bit of practice to know when to keep the pressure on and when to sit back and wait for another spell to make the attack more successful. It also takes practice to know what deck to side into against each opponent, but that can be said about most modern decks. I really think if you give the deck a try you will really enjoy playing it and you will find it is very competitive. I will keep posting testing notes to try to give everyone an idea of how to play the deck and how games play out. I hope that helps. I will also play against classic Delver and the popular Grixis Delver tonight and post the notes. I will also try to get a matchup guide together. Off the top of my head the only bad matchups I can think of game one are Amulet Bloom, Mono Blue Tron (sometimes),Soul Sisters, Boggles, and pure control (Jeskai or Esper). However, we do have sideboard cards for those matchups and early aggression can beat all of them. In addition, they are slightly fringe decks as well which helps not seeing them that often.
Please let me know if you have any more questions or any other matchups you would like me to test against. I am also working on getting videos of the deck posted on youtube so people can see the deck in action. Thanks again for our interest and your help!
thank you for taking time to explain what is behind this deck. It seems you made a long journey before landing to your current configuration.
I have just bought most of the (cheapest!) cards, so I'm starting to test it on the real world.
I'm thinking about these kind of cards that I don't see dicussed in your deck:
1) Some bouncing effects like echoing truth to gain time against annoying permanents?
2) A protection and advantage card like Hindering Light? Actually I have already tested it and it seems it stands in my hand too long, waiting for some opposite removal
3) Is Ojutai exemplars too slow and not so impacting? They could get lifelink
4) Alesha, who smiles at death: It can get you back Snapcaster Mage, Geist of Saint Traft... well, all except Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest.
Probably 2) and 3) are too cute, so I want to try extensively 1) and 4).
LL
I love the way you think about deck construction. I think all 4 ideas are worth looking into. I especially like Alesha, Who Smiles at Death. That looks like a great way to add card advantage in the late game. It can get Kiln Fiend back as well.
I have thought about Ojutai Exemplars as well. I have not tested them enough to say if they are good or bad in the deck, but I assume it is a fine top end given the right meta. Because the deck often starts at 17 life after a fetch land into shock land, I have looked for ways to get lifelink into the deck. I have been liking Soulfire Grandmaster in the sideboard, but a mainboard lifelinker would be great.
Surprisingly enough I have tried Hindering Light in the past (your right, it has taken me a very long time to get to the current deck). I agree with what you said. It just stayed in my hand too often. I don't think it is bad by any means and in a removal heavy meta it should work great, it just doesn't work well enough against an unknown meta in my opinion.
As for a bounce effect you may be on to something. I had an Echoing Truth in the sideboard for a bit, but wasn't siding it in enough. If it was in the mainboard it would probably be much better. Any effect that can be useful in multiple matchups is probably going to be a great addition. Let me know how that works for you. If it works out I will definitely test it out.
I highly recommend tuning your personal deck to your likings. That is one of the benefits to this deck. It has several slots that can be changed. I love playing lesser known cards and love to see that you are looking into new awesome ideas. That's how a deck moves forward and gets better. I really think this deck is very well situated right now, especially with all of the Collected Company decks going around. I just wish I could get the deck out there so pros would try it. It have a tough time having enough time to set aside to play a daily on MTGO, but I am working on making videos for the deck.
Thanks again for writing and for adding all of the new fresh ideas!
Try upping Lighting Helix count to 3-4 since not only is it a great removal/burn but can pull you back out of range of death.
OH! Maybe it's time to see if Jeskai Charm can hang in Modern. It's burn, it's bounce, and it's boosting your team and giving that Lifelink you were wanting to find room for.
I'm a big supporter of trying to go explosive and hit some Double Strike damage hard. Maybe try a few Fatal Frenzy to help go over the top?
I have to agree with you there. WW is extremely hard to get in the deck. It is easier when it's your 4 drop, but with Chandra already at RR it the card would have to be extremely good to warrant it's inclusion. I also agree that the lifelink would have be in addition to something else that fits the strategy of the deck. Your correct in saying that, in the end, the deck wants to be aggressive and get them dead quickly or at least put pressure on them from the beginning.
I have tested Augury Adept in the past, but Surrakar Spellblade has just performed much better in terms of a late game finisher. I also used to have Azorious Charm in the sideboard, but it just seemed very underwhelming every time I sided it in. Another suggestion I have heard is Seeker of the Way, however he just isn't aggressive/powerful enough. Very early in the creation of the deck I did have one Jeskai Charm in the deck, but it I found other three drops to be more effective. However, I haven't tested it in some time and/or in the most recent build of the deck. Fatal Frenzy may fall into the same category of just too expensive for the result. It would definitely win the game, but may be just win more. You can never know until you test it though.
I think your solution might be the best. Adding an additional Lightning Helix is probably our best bet. It is particularly strong with Soulfire Grandmaster. I will be giving this a try as well as testing a Jeskai Charm in the sideboard and mainboard.
Thanks as always for the great ideas! In testing and FNM this deck has been doing very well lately (especially with the rise of Collected Company decks). Anything to make the deck even better is awesome.
Have you thought of making a modern version of your "Sneaky Fists" deck?
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/reconstructed/around-world-30-decks-2015-05-26
The deck is about halfway down under- Gavin Curd's Modern Jeskai Prowess Deck. Hopefully this will help get more players playing the deck!