@rutherjc:
The matches against the mono black Infect deck was the round after affinity.
You pointed out not being used to playing against lashwrithe, I don't think any of us can say we are used to playing against this card. But what I think was still lurking at the back of your head was the fact that cranial plating only gives +x/+0 and you kind of mistook it for plating.
But anyway, good write up and more importantly you had fun and a good result.
Next time you will get your 4 rounds of modern goodness, hopefully.
Burn is probably one of the more honest match ups in the meta right now and one we can easily beat.
I would not go as far as saying it is a bye, but we are favoured a little bit.
Having so much interaction with Bolts, pierces, helices, snags and ways to buying them back with snapcaster in conjunction with threats that are hard to deal with for them like geist and young pyromancer. Dedicating sideboard slots to this particular MU just to further improve our very positive winrate against the deck isn't worth it. The deck would become way more vulnerable against other decks in the process.
Burn is kind of like affinity, they can have absurd draws where they just turn 4 you no matter what you do. But just as affinity having removal and ways to deal with their Threats is key to winning the matchup. And that's what our deck is best in, winning the game with a few beaters backed up by interaction to protect them and disrupt the opponent.
Although affinity needs some dedicated SB slots.
@Curbros:
I wanted to ask you something. What happened to the weekly MU discussion?
Even though I do not have experience against all of the decks I really enjoyed the discussions and tips and tricks we ended up with.
Last but not least a little testing season report against UW control.
I have never played against this deck before but in theory we should be very favoured here.
I can't remember everything but we played like 5 rounds or so. And the match up was just as I expected it to be. If I was able to protect a delver and deeply a geist in the process he just was not able to keep up with me. Being a little light on Threats is where he takes over the game and if the game goes to long he can just sculpt the perfect hand. Supreme verdict is one of his best cards in the MU aside from the Gideon that forces you to attack him. But just as I said landing a timely geist is crucial.
The matches where very fun and highly interactive (that's what I like about magic, being interactive) and I definitely felt favored.
Ps:
Right now the foiling of this beauty of a deck has begun and excited but a little frightened of the cost this comes with.
But hell yeah am I excited!
Hey Mazeron. I always love to hear from you. That's awesome that you are foiling the deck out! It's a lot of fun and is a little pricey, but you can do it over a long period.
I wish I had a better excuse, but I just plain forgot to put a matchup discussion. I wasn't sure if anyone really liked them. They always get a few responses, not now that I know people are into it, I will definitely make sure to do it each week. My bad.
As for burn, I think it's a bit different than affinity, because they have more spell based damage. With that said, I had never considered it a bad matchup until people asked about it after the Great Nate videos. I really never had a problem beating them so I am over trying to find better sideboard answers since the matchup isn't that bad anyways. Thanks to everyone for reassuring me that no additional help is needed.
StevoMat- Congrats on the 4-0! It's always fun to go 4-0, especially if we beat the end boss in round 4. That's very cool of you to give the kid some cards to help his collection. I always like to pay it forward when I can. People like yourself are what makes Magic a great game and a great community of people. I feel the same way. I don't think I am going to change a thing until some kind of new Treasure Cruise is printed.
I did want to ask about Jeskai Charm. How has it performed for you? I have one flex spot in my deck and was thinking of giving that a try.
In honor of Mazeron's discussion the matchup of the week will be UW Control-
Here is my thoughts on the matchup:
Like Mazeron said, this matchup is a ton of fun. How well we fair against them really depends on the build. The most important card in the matchup is Geist of Saint Traft because they have a very rough time beating a resolved Geist. In addition, early pressure is key. They are forced to utilize their mass removal or path on an early Delver or Swiftspear which gains us a ton of value.
Overall I think this matchup is likely in our favor and can become more favorable given the particular build. I haven't had too many issues against this deck, but it is a very fun deck to play against and produces some really great games and stacks.
He/She then Abrupt Decay my Delver on his turn, and I casted Emerge Unscathed on delver naming black, next of my turn it rebounded, targeting my Young Pyro with black, and attacking ftw.
Feels good man! Normally I can't answer Abrupt Decay, but Emerge Unscathed can be a solution in some situation like this. Nice.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
My sideboard is not perfect. Could I use a better sweeper? Thing in the Ice / Echoing Truth / Electrickery / Detention sphere
Rest for the Weary is for the Deathshadow Match up. I can target Any Player .
Narset Transcendent for mirror
Saheeki Rai + Felidar Guardian is for a RUG match up, although I think this deck is already suited well for it.
I anticipate more 8rack decks and Soul Sister decks (because of Iconic Masters) in the future, any advice for these MU?
I have been thinking a lot on the Soul Sisiters & B/W Token MU they play a similar core but function very differently. I think my sideboard reflects this.
@moz.the blessed- That is the single best use of Emerge Unscathed in my opinion. It feels so awesome to "counter" an Abrupt Decay, but then to attack back with protection from a color the next turn feels great. Thanks for sharing. I love those moments.
@Mazeron- You are not forcing anything. I think most people enjoy the matchup of the week even if they don't respond each week. It's great to get everyone's opinion on a matchup. I learn a lot from you guys/gals on matchups by reading your responses. Sometimes I don't think of a certain aspect of the matchup and you guys give me a new outlook on it. I think the main benefit of this site/thread is that we can all learn from players who play a similar style deck. Sometimes it's hard to get advice from other players when you play a lesser known deck like jeskai delver.
Thanks for sharing the Nate Video Mazeron. Nate mentioned that he loved playing the delver list during the video so that was nice to hear. I know he plans on running jeskai delver again in the future so I look forward to seeing how he changes the deck to fit his playstyle/preferences. He ran my 75 last tie and I almost felt bad because I have a few personal choices. Luckily it went well with a 4-1 that could have been a 5-0. I was going to ask them about jeskai delver as well so thanks for posting the question. I can't wait to hear what they say. I hope they don't go with the cliche- "delver is bad in modern" answer and actually think about it. Firer and Rossum don't seem like they would answer like that so I have high hopes.
@wickedapp- I personally didn't like sweepers in my board because I play multiple one/two drop creatures. I always felt like I was hurting my gameplan too much. We have ample spot removal for creatures. With that said, wide boards can be a problem so I chose to include Echoing Truth which deals with tokens (Empty the Warrens and [/c]Lingering Souls[/c] are my favorite targets) and I also added Distortion Strike/Emerge Unscathed to go through wide boards. That way we don't lose to much in other matchups, but have something that can deal with wider boards. My brother actually brought up the felidar/saheeli combo today for my sideboard. Unfortunately I think it's a bit to slow even for the matchups where I could use an infinite combo. I think it can be sided into the more midrange versions of the deck, but it would take up a couple of slots in the sideboard.
I have an open question to the Young Pyromancer players- What matchups does she typically shine for you?
I am thinking about possibly running a copy of yount p in my mainboard and Great Nate brought up a great point by asking which matchups she helps with instead of swiftspear. Since I don't have a lot of experience with the card I thought I would ask you guys/gals. I assumed it was good against the grindy and go wide matchups, but would love to hear the insights you all have learned.
Now onto the matchup of the week. This weeks matchup is 5-color Humans
Pyromancer is epic in everything non-combo, non-tron. It pressures control for a sweeper, it buys you time against hyper aggro decks like burn, less so against affinity though and it's a killer against midrange decks. For example this Saturday, Pyromancer won me the match against abzan. Both games. It blanked Lili of the veil, provided chump blockers against goyfs and scooze, and left 4 tokens behind after a Lili, the last hope finally killed him. Also it's great against humans and has single-handedly put the knightfall match-up in our favor.
This ties in with this week's match-up: 5C/4C-humans: Unless your hand is bad, it's a pretty favorable match-up. Just side in angers/wraths/staticasters and Deflecting Palms (you never know how big they're gonna get )
I'll have to point out that siding just one won't cut it. It may be an awesome creature, but it's pretty fragile, so you need to have more to pressure their removals/discard. Use the same thought process as the one regarding Blood Moon: 1 lucky copy won't cut it, you want to draw it and drawing it will greatly increase your win%.
@GofyTomcat1 In your first list I'd use 3-4 Mutagenic growths and probably cut a land and one of the walkers.
@mazereon; what is the JR lightning bolt? I dont get the reference, is it the Lava Mancer? I only run 1 MB because everyone else runs it SB. Dusk//dawn I played in Soul Sisters and it never felt right. Also there were match ups where it did not hit my opponents creatures they way I wanted it to, leaving threats on the board. The buyback is pricey and feels like a late game thing which is not where I want to be with the deck ever. Also my opponent will likely sideboard in Rest in peace(in response to snapcaster mage that everyone else runs) nullifying the second half.
@Curdbros, Mazereon; My current sweepers are Thing in Ice and Echoing truths, Electrickery, and Detention sphere. It sounds like these are enough then. Thing is slow but should work most of the time in 2 turns.
Felidar Cat combo is too slow. This is the wrong deck for it. I play tested it a few hands to see how relevant it might come up, but it was never worth it, a win more card.
@ Curdbros;
I have an open question to the Young Pyromancer players- What matchups does she typically shine for you?
I don't have many matches under my belt yet, but the YPyro seems good in most MU, We cast Instants all the time so its just synergy. Another way I look at it is, that our opponent must solve for the additional 1/1's on the board. They are the throw away army. We can attack for weenie damage with little loss, or we can chump block forever. It can really throw there combat math off if we cast 2 instants on their combat turn to get 2 1/1's.
Another way to look at is how many games have you won with a lone protected Snapcaster Mage also a 2/1.
Since I am replying to others I will do my matchup of the week write up here. For a reminder the matchup of the week is 5-Color Humans.
Overview- I have found this matchup to be rather favorable. We have ample removal for their early threats and they really are a deck that needs to amass a board with synergy to do major damaged. They need multiple humans on the board to really pressure us. I would say we are 60/40 in game one and probably get even better post board with options like Izzet Staticaster, Engineered Explosives, and Abrade.
Important cards- Our most important cards are likely Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix. Our burn spells kill all of the creatures they play in their deck and can open up the board for us to attack back through. Their most important cards are Cavern of Souls, Meddling Mage, and Aether Vial. If they can disrupt our hand early with Kitesail Freebooter, land an early Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and/or Meddling Mage they can definitely win games. With that said, we have a deck stocked full of answers for smaller creatures so they have a very tough time implementing their plan.
Summary- This is not a matchup I really worry about. I would be very happy if this matchup become prevelant.
MrTzoulis- I was planning on running one main and one in the board. I haven't made the choice yet, because I don't want to dilute the main deck draw consistency too much, however I don't think it changes much in terms of the maindeck. I really just wanted it to more easily side into a more grindy deck if I wanted. I haven't been having many problems beating the midrange and control matchups lately so it may just be a silly idea I had. Either way I am going to test it out and see how it goes because I always love to tinker :).
WickedApp- I think you have plenty of sweepers. Detention Sphere is an awesome choice. I have run it in the board before. I think you are correct about the felidar combo and that also opens up some sideboard slots for you!
Gofytomcat- I like Mr. T's suggestion for your first list. Go super aggro and really kill everyone before they can get going. I would also suggest cutting a land and Elspeth likely.
Updated deck list here in the spoiler. I'm running a different variation for some compared to others.
So for me, Humans usually won't be a terrible match up for most of us, most of the time. Most of us are running a lot of removal. Take care of the Mayor and champion asap. Watch for tricks with Vial if you have electrolyze or other burn spells you're playing if you're targeting any creatures. Pending person be prepared for both Thalia's, both can be troublesome but not back breaking. Don't be afraid to mulligan, don't be greedy.
I think my iteration will have an easier time with this match up due to more removal vs playing swiftspear and delver, but if you chop up their few early plays and you have a swiftspear and a flipped delver you will close the game out before I do. These human decks do not have room for removal so if you're delver flips early you're most likely good to go.
I'm getting back in the habit of playing on cockatrice so im taking extensive notes. Just played against taking turns and 8rack, both 2-0.
I will post my notes later on when i play a couple more games of mtg so i can have a good set of notes for people to read.
As far as Young P is concerned I don't like him main deck, pending how your meta is. Mine is filled with so much removal thats why geist shines and everything else dies lol side I like if you have room. i go bigger against abzan and grindy match ups which is better for my deck build, but I can see young p being very good for the leaner lower curve delver/swiftspear builds. But when I would draw it, I would usually wish it was something else. You also usually should wait until you can play it alongside something to make sure you get value like when players wait to play tireless tracker until they have a land to play with it in the same turn.
I have an open question to the Young Pyromancer players- What matchups does she typically shine for you?
I am thinking about possibly running a copy of yount p in my mainboard and Great Nate brought up a great point by asking which matchups she helps with instead of swiftspear. Since I don't have a lot of experience with the card I thought I would ask you guys/gals. I assumed it was good against the grindy and go wide matchups, but would love to hear the insights you all have learned.
YP has so far done great for me as turn 2 removal bait drop or a turn 5 pressure drop. Elemental tokens are able to block ground pounders all day as i grind the games out if need be. I do find that YP will do very well in the later parts of the game if you have Search for Azcanta as you get plenty of fuel to power his trigger. Then again, Monastary Mentor can fulfill the same role if you are planning for the mid-late game drop to keep the pressure up.
I have beaten combo decks with YP because I know i am safe with a counterspell in my grip (Spell Pierce / Remand / Deprive) and the snowball effect happens.
YP can become a dead card in the hand like Bedlam Reveler when you have multiples. Which is why I feel 4 Serum Visions and 2 - 3 Opts are required to keep your handsize healthy. Search of Azcanta feels almost compulsory at this stage of deck building...
I have been testing Young Pyromancer and just haven't been all that impressed. There is the caveat that I am only running two total copies and the deck has not been built around young pyromancer so I wasn't expecting much to begin with. I just wanted to see if the added utility of a 3/1 swiftspear-young p split would be worth while. In the end Young Pyromancer suffers from my least favorite thing in this deck and that is a 2 CMC creature. I just hate going turn 1 threat into a 2 CMC threat on turn 2. I prefer to hold up counter magic, opt, bolt, etc on turn two if I have a threat and I really don't want to have to decide whether to tap out again to further the board.
RutherJC- My meta is pretty similar to yours . Geist really shines against a lot of decks. I will likely still keep the one copy in the board for the matchups that I want to become the more controlling deck(against aggro decks I can't race).
I still think Young Pyromancer is a great option in the more midrange decks that utilize more counter magic. It just doesn't fit the more aggro-control versions in my opinion. That's ok because now I can build another jeskai prowess deck that is geared more towards midrange and I can use my Young Pyromancers and Monastery Mentors!
As always I will keep tinkering with my flex spot until I feel super comfortable. The other 59 cards haven't changed so I won't post the list again until something changes. I am playing tonight and will do a write up with how it goes.
Actually a 2nd pyromancer is never dead, especially compared to reveler. Getting 2 tokens per non creature spell puts immense pressure on the opponents, something that reveler will never do, even on multiples.
As for your build CurdBro, pyromancer doesn't really stick with swiftspear well, since they need different builds and playstyles. Going on a more tempo build (Remands etc) favors Pyro since you don't care about playing spells on their turn, you're not losing possible damage. This comes in contrast to the aggro-control gameplan that swiftspear thrives with. Burning opponents and interacting in your turn. You're essentially playing like infect, and should be treated with the same care, especially the lists with mutagenic growth -I've 16'd people with a lone swiftspear on t2-t3.
Sideboard
2 Hindering Light
2 Dispel
2 Pyroclasm
1 Kira, Great-Glass Spinner
2 Wear
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Stony Silence
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Only thing I dont like about this list is the number of boros charms but thats from my experience lol i would trim 1-2, and at least make snap a 4of. I like everything else. Love the kira in the side i think thats super sweet.
Actually a 2nd pyromancer is never dead, especially compared to reveler. Getting 2 tokens per non creature spell puts immense pressure on the opponents, something that reveler will never do, even on multiples.
As for your build CurdBro, pyromancer doesn't really stick with swiftspear well, since they need different builds and playstyles. Going on a more tempo build (Remands etc) favors Pyro since you don't care about playing spells on their turn, you're not losing possible damage. This comes in contrast to the aggro-control gameplan that swiftspear thrives with. Burning opponents and interacting in your turn. You're essentially playing like infect, and should be treated with the same care, especially the lists with mutagenic growth -I've 16'd people with a lone swiftspear on t2-t3.
I think your spot on in terms of why I am not in love with Young P in my list. It just doesn't suit my playstyle or for what I am trying to accomplish in game 1. You make great points about the difference in playstyle in aggro-control vs. tempo vs. midrange. I think sometimes people think that because the jeskai queller deck has 35-40 similar cards to jeskai control or even jeskai delver, that they play similarly, but they definitely do not.
GofyTomcat1- I like 4 snapcaster and two boros charm as well.
Actually a 2nd pyromancer is never dead, especially compared to reveler. Getting 2 tokens per non creature spell puts immense pressure on the opponents, something that reveler will never do, even on multiples.
As for your build CurdBro, pyromancer doesn't really stick with swiftspear well, since they need different builds and playstyles. Going on a more tempo build (Remands etc) favors Pyro since you don't care about playing spells on their turn, you're not losing possible damage. This comes in contrast to the aggro-control gameplan that swiftspear thrives with. Burning opponents and interacting in your turn. You're essentially playing like infect, and should be treated with the same care, especially the lists with mutagenic growth -I've 16'd people with a lone swiftspear on t2-t3.
I agree! However I do not like to play double YP because that is a bit "all in" and open to a blow out especially in G2/G3. I do see it a viable play in certain match-ups especially against other creature heavy decks to keep my blockers up.
Rutherjc19, the list you're playing has become quite popular during the last months. It shows up in Top 10 lists of many recent tournaments.
It is also being discussed in a new article and GreatNate is also playing a similar list again
That list is pretty cool
I basically play that list -2 colonades, -2 counterspells, -2 spell quellers, and +4 delver, +1 search for azcanta +1 boros charm
So far, 50/50 against eldrazi tron and unfair decks
feels like 70/30 against deathshadow and humans
Rutherjc19, the list you're playing has become quite popular during the last months. It shows up in Top 10 lists of many recent tournaments.
It is also being discussed in a new article and GreatNate is also playing a similar list again
The "jeskai tempo" deck is everywhere right now. I beleive Mr.Tzoulis is dipping his toes in the "jeskai tempo" waters as well. I love seeing it because it plays a ton of my favorite cards. It's about time jeskai got some love. I consider it more of a midrange deck rather than tempo, but the names always stick. We don't discuss it much here because it doesn't have delver and doesn't include prowess as a main aspect of the deck, but because it shares so many cards and has some aspects we can learn from it's sometimes helpful to discuss other jeskai options.
Great Nate has played this style of deck for a long time and loves it. There was an old streamer by the name of Mr.Scotty or something like that that also used to run the jeskai Geist list. I used to play a similar build, but when the prowess mechanic was invented I was hooked. I still regularly watch Nate's videos and any other jeskai deck I can because I can most likely learn something from the matches I had never thought of or something I can use in the future. You can't argue with results either. This deck has been doing very well over the prior couple of months. I think people are finally waking up to how good jeskai can be. My hope is that some pro team will say- "how can we make this more proactive?" and give delver a try, but that's likely far fetched with how well the jeskai midrange deck has been doing. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Back to the jeskai prowess deck. The card I am currently playing in my flex spot is Forked Bolt. Nothing ground breaking here, but I wanted another burn spell and thought about electrolyze, however I want to keep the curve super low. Forked bolt fit the bill for now. Has anyone here had any luck with Forked Bolt or are there better options in your opinion?.
The other options I have been toying with is a one of Peek for another instant speed cantrip for snapcaster mage and to get information in the grindy UWx control matchups which have picked up in popularity and also Unsubstantiate.
Actually a 2nd pyromancer is never dead, especially compared to reveler. Getting 2 tokens per non creature spell puts immense pressure on the opponents, something that reveler will never do, even on multiples.
As for your build CurdBro, pyromancer doesn't really stick with swiftspear well, since they need different builds and playstyles. Going on a more tempo build (Remands etc) favors Pyro since you don't care about playing spells on their turn, you're not losing possible damage. This comes in contrast to the aggro-control gameplan that swiftspear thrives with. Burning opponents and interacting in your turn. You're essentially playing like infect, and should be treated with the same care, especially the lists with mutagenic growth -I've 16'd people with a lone swiftspear on t2-t3.
I agree you hit the nail on the head with this. CurdBro's play style is more Aggro Burn. YPyro shines in the mid-game builds or with the 'in response to your opponents' actions.
When I've played YP it was not for intent to do damage but as a roadblock to mess up my opponents tempo. It's a card that says 'kill me your next turn or you might regret it' which almost acts like a timewalk early on T2-T3 if you hold up a counter spell. It then forces you opponent to find the answer. So instead of them playing their game they are forced to play ours, while we develop.
Multiples can be good depending on where, what, how, and when. Against decks with light removal go crazy. Against decks with sweepers go very light. I look at the damage dealt by them as incidental, the real damage is stealing a turn or a kill spell from them.
Odd thing is that I like pyro over Mentor because of the casting cost, at T3 its much easier to cast and hold up a counter. Mentor is more aggro with the prowess.
Actually a 2nd pyromancer is never dead, especially compared to reveler. Getting 2 tokens per non creature spell puts immense pressure on the opponents, something that reveler will never do, even on multiples.
As for your build CurdBro, pyromancer doesn't really stick with swiftspear well, since they need different builds and playstyles. Going on a more tempo build (Remands etc) favors Pyro since you don't care about playing spells on their turn, you're not losing possible damage. This comes in contrast to the aggro-control gameplan that swiftspear thrives with. Burning opponents and interacting in your turn. You're essentially playing like infect, and should be treated with the same care, especially the lists with mutagenic growth -I've 16'd people with a lone swiftspear on t2-t3.
I agree you hit the nail on the head with this. CurdBro's play style is more Aggro Burn. YPyro shines in the mid-game builds or with the 'in response to your opponents' actions.
When I've played YP it was not for intent to do damage but as a roadblock to mess up my opponents tempo. It's a card that says 'kill me your next turn or you might regret it' which almost acts like a timewalk early on T2-T3 if you hold up a counter spell. It then forces you opponent to find the answer. So instead of them playing their game they are forced to play ours, while we develop.
Multiples can be good depending on where, what, how, and when. Against decks with light removal go crazy. Against decks with sweepers go very light. I look at the damage dealt by them as incidental, the real damage is stealing a turn or a kill spell from them.
Odd thing is that I like pyro over Mentor because of the casting cost, at T3 its much easier to cast and hold up a counter. Mentor is more aggro with the prowess.
I so badly want to play Monastery Mentor. He is in my top three favorite cards of all time (Geist of Saint Traft, Abbot of Keral Keep, and Monastery Mentor). I will eventually put together a mentor deck. I do agree, that the casting cost differenc is huge from 2 to 3. Young pyromancer backed by dispel is much safer than tapping out for mentor.
Tried for ages to get mentor working. Ended up playing a legacy deck with 4 mentors as the 2ndary win con (bomberman). In modern there seems to be too few protection or 0-casting cantrips to get value off it if your curve is low. If you play the midrange/control route and can afford to wait to t5+ to drop mentor, you'd rather be playing bigger and badder things (geist, ojutai, etc)... For a while, in a delver/pyromancer/mentor build the mentor performed when the opponent traded removal with delver and young pyro, leaving mentor to stick, but in the end the hexproof geist with evasion worked out better
Just won a small local modern 3-round event with the following list
Humans 2:1
- an odd list playing hanweir garrison instead of kitesail freebooter
- Lost G1 for not having enough removal in hand and lost the race to hanweir tokens
- Remove before things got big was the strategy and G2 and G3 were won pretty smoothly even without seeing SB cards
UG Merfolk 2:1
- neat build but slow. Should've burned him instead of 1for1-ing his creatures and dragged the game to a top-decking loss G1
- G2 milked anger of the gods in starting hand to eventually wipe 4-5 creatures off the map. He scooped after seeing a snapcaster in my hand
- G3 flood on both sides, and with 5-6 mana out and a even board state, it's our advantage.
Eldrazi Tron 2:1
- Lost to natural tron G1
- G2 flew over top of thoughtknots and smashers for the win
- G3 finally saw land disruption SB cards and dragged out the game. Saw 1 Ceremonious Rejection and with 2 snaps stopped him from doing much, and slow bled him for the game.
Rutherjc19, the list you're playing has become quite popular during the last months. It shows up in Top 10 lists of many recent tournaments.
It is also being discussed in a new article and GreatNate is also playing a similar list again
The "jeskai tempo" deck is everywhere right now. I beleive Mr.Tzoulis is dipping his toes in the "jeskai tempo" waters as well. I love seeing it because it plays a ton of my favorite cards. It's about time jeskai got some love. I consider it more of a midrange deck rather than tempo, but the names always stick. We don't discuss it much here because it doesn't have delver and doesn't include prowess as a main aspect of the deck, but because it shares so many cards and has some aspects we can learn from it's sometimes helpful to discuss other jeskai options.
Great Nate has played this style of deck for a long time and loves it. There was an old streamer by the name of Mr.Scotty or something like that that also used to run the jeskai Geist list. I used to play a similar build, but when the prowess mechanic was invented I was hooked. I still regularly watch Nate's videos and any other jeskai deck I can because I can most likely learn something from the matches I had never thought of or something I can use in the future. You can't argue with results either. This deck has been doing very well over the prior couple of months. I think people are finally waking up to how good jeskai can be. My hope is that some pro team will say- "how can we make this more proactive?" and give delver a try, but that's likely far fetched with how well the jeskai midrange deck has been doing. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Back to the jeskai prowess deck. The card I am currently playing in my flex spot is Forked Bolt. Nothing ground breaking here, but I wanted another burn spell and thought about electrolyze, however I want to keep the curve super low. Forked bolt fit the bill for now. Has anyone here had any luck with Forked Bolt or are there better options in your opinion?.
The other options I have been toying with is a one of Peek for another instant speed cantrip for snapcaster mage and to get information in the grindy UWx control matchups which have picked up in popularity and also Unsubstantiate.
There is a Mardu Reveler list that just got a 5-0 league and has been popping up on mtgo. People seem to remember how good Reveler can be lol
Jeskai control just got bumped to Tier 1 so it's super exciting for Jeskai players all over Mtgsalvation!
In terms on Forked Bolt, even with your lower curved prowess build I think you should just play Electrolyze. It does the same but drawing a card and being able to do it at instant speed and late game flash it back with snapcaster is SOOOO gooooooood man seriously. I am hardly ever sad to see it.
So I haven't played your deck personally but think it could be a good addition, and not sure if you are playing any main or side as of now but now that i added it in it will never leave. I think it warrants testing even if you wanna keep the curve super low.
Hey Mazeron. I always love to hear from you. That's awesome that you are foiling the deck out! It's a lot of fun and is a little pricey, but you can do it over a long period.
I wish I had a better excuse, but I just plain forgot to put a matchup discussion. I wasn't sure if anyone really liked them. They always get a few responses, not now that I know people are into it, I will definitely make sure to do it each week. My bad.
As for burn, I think it's a bit different than affinity, because they have more spell based damage. With that said, I had never considered it a bad matchup until people asked about it after the Great Nate videos. I really never had a problem beating them so I am over trying to find better sideboard answers since the matchup isn't that bad anyways. Thanks to everyone for reassuring me that no additional help is needed.
StevoMat- Congrats on the 4-0! It's always fun to go 4-0, especially if we beat the end boss in round 4. That's very cool of you to give the kid some cards to help his collection. I always like to pay it forward when I can. People like yourself are what makes Magic a great game and a great community of people. I feel the same way. I don't think I am going to change a thing until some kind of new Treasure Cruise is printed.
I did want to ask about Jeskai Charm. How has it performed for you? I have one flex spot in my deck and was thinking of giving that a try.
In honor of Mazeron's discussion the matchup of the week will be UW Control-
Here is my thoughts on the matchup:
Like Mazeron said, this matchup is a ton of fun. How well we fair against them really depends on the build. The most important card in the matchup is Geist of Saint Traft because they have a very rough time beating a resolved Geist. In addition, early pressure is key. They are forced to utilize their mass removal or path on an early Delver or Swiftspear which gains us a ton of value.
Spell Pierce is especially great in this matchup as is Spell Snare if your running them. We can't really out-grind them so we really want to go under them. Playing a tempo plan works out well as does aggro-control. I typically side in my one Wear // Tear because they run Detention Sphere, Search for Azcanta, Relic of Prgenitus, Leyline of Sanctity. Rest in Peace, etc. They typically have a nice target for it. Other sideboard options I like are Negate, Dispel, and Search for Azcanta
Overall I think this matchup is likely in our favor and can become more favorable given the particular build. I haven't had too many issues against this deck, but it is a very fun deck to play against and produces some really great games and stacks.
He/She has a non-flying black creature on his board (forgot, I think it's Golgari Thug), while i had Delver of Secrets and Young Pyromancer, and threaten to lethal next turn.
He/She then Abrupt Decay my Delver on his turn, and I casted Emerge Unscathed on delver naming black, next of my turn it rebounded, targeting my Young Pyro with black, and attacking ftw.
Feels good man! Normally I can't answer Abrupt Decay, but Emerge Unscathed can be a solution in some situation like this. Nice.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
@moz.the blessed; Emerge Unscathed is just a sweet card. Cant beat a free cast. Also it is great for offense like you found out as well as defense.
@Mazeron; foiled deck = NICE!
My Decklist
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Monastery Mentor
2 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Mantis Rider
1 Sublime Archangel
1 Chart a Course
4 Serum Visions
1 Opt
1 Manamorphose
3 Remand
1 Mana Leak
1 Spell Pierce
1 Emerge Unscathed
1 Valorous Stance
1 Vapor Snag
1 Boomerang
2 Boros Charm
2 Lightning Helix
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
1 Shinka The Bloodsoaked
1 Slayer's Stronghold
1 Sacred Foundery
1 Glacial Fortress
1 CliffTop Retreat
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 FloodedStrand
1 Poluted Delta
1 Fragmentize
1 Dispel
1 Turn Aside
1 Rest for the Weary
1 Path to Exile
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Wear/Tear
1 Echoing Truth
1 Thing in the Ice
1 Saheeli Rai
1 Feldar Guardian
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Detention Sphere
1 Electrickery
My sideboard is not perfect. Could I use a better sweeper? Thing in the Ice / Echoing Truth / Electrickery / Detention sphere
Rest for the Weary is for the Deathshadow Match up. I can target Any Player .
Narset Transcendent for mirror
Saheeki Rai + Felidar Guardian is for a RUG match up, although I think this deck is already suited well for it.
I anticipate more 8rack decks and Soul Sister decks (because of Iconic Masters) in the future, any advice for these MU?
I have been thinking a lot on the Soul Sisiters & B/W Token MU they play a similar core but function very differently. I think my sideboard reflects this.
@moz.the blessed- That is the single best use of Emerge Unscathed in my opinion. It feels so awesome to "counter" an Abrupt Decay, but then to attack back with protection from a color the next turn feels great. Thanks for sharing. I love those moments.
@Mazeron- You are not forcing anything. I think most people enjoy the matchup of the week even if they don't respond each week. It's great to get everyone's opinion on a matchup. I learn a lot from you guys/gals on matchups by reading your responses. Sometimes I don't think of a certain aspect of the matchup and you guys give me a new outlook on it. I think the main benefit of this site/thread is that we can all learn from players who play a similar style deck. Sometimes it's hard to get advice from other players when you play a lesser known deck like jeskai delver.
Thanks for sharing the Nate Video Mazeron. Nate mentioned that he loved playing the delver list during the video so that was nice to hear. I know he plans on running jeskai delver again in the future so I look forward to seeing how he changes the deck to fit his playstyle/preferences. He ran my 75 last tie and I almost felt bad because I have a few personal choices. Luckily it went well with a 4-1 that could have been a 5-0. I was going to ask them about jeskai delver as well so thanks for posting the question. I can't wait to hear what they say. I hope they don't go with the cliche- "delver is bad in modern" answer and actually think about it. Firer and Rossum don't seem like they would answer like that so I have high hopes.
@wickedapp- I personally didn't like sweepers in my board because I play multiple one/two drop creatures. I always felt like I was hurting my gameplan too much. We have ample spot removal for creatures. With that said, wide boards can be a problem so I chose to include Echoing Truth which deals with tokens (Empty the Warrens and [/c]Lingering Souls[/c] are my favorite targets) and I also added Distortion Strike/Emerge Unscathed to go through wide boards. That way we don't lose to much in other matchups, but have something that can deal with wider boards. My brother actually brought up the felidar/saheeli combo today for my sideboard. Unfortunately I think it's a bit to slow even for the matchups where I could use an infinite combo. I think it can be sided into the more midrange versions of the deck, but it would take up a couple of slots in the sideboard.
I am thinking about possibly running a copy of yount p in my mainboard and Great Nate brought up a great point by asking which matchups she helps with instead of swiftspear. Since I don't have a lot of experience with the card I thought I would ask you guys/gals. I assumed it was good against the grindy and go wide matchups, but would love to hear the insights you all have learned.
Now onto the matchup of the week. This weeks matchup is 5-color Humans
My thoughts- To follow
I decided to revive a couple of my old lists for testing. First is my old favorite (Chandra's Rifles)
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Stormchaser Mage
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Mantis Rider
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance (Pyromaster?)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Spells (22)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Boros Charm
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
2 Jeskai Charm
1 Electrolyze
1 Cavern of Souls (naming Human)
3 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Inspiring Vantage
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Wandering Fumarole
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Hindering Light
2 Dispel
2 Pyroclasm
1 Kira, Great-Glass Spinner
2 Wear
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Stony Silence
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
_____________________________________________________________________________________
And my second revival: Lightning Geist
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Lightning Angel
2 Spell Queller
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
3 Boros Charm
2 Electrolyze
3 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Inspiring Vantage
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Wear // Tear
2 Stony Silence
2 Dispel
1 Negate
3 Leyline of Sanctity
This ties in with this week's match-up: 5C/4C-humans: Unless your hand is bad, it's a pretty favorable match-up. Just side in angers/wraths/staticasters and Deflecting Palms (you never know how big they're gonna get )
I'll have to point out that siding just one won't cut it. It may be an awesome creature, but it's pretty fragile, so you need to have more to pressure their removals/discard. Use the same thought process as the one regarding Blood Moon: 1 lucky copy won't cut it, you want to draw it and drawing it will greatly increase your win%.
@GofyTomcat1 In your first list I'd use 3-4 Mutagenic growths and probably cut a land and one of the walkers.
Dusk//dawn I played in Soul Sisters and it never felt right. Also there were match ups where it did not hit my opponents creatures they way I wanted it to, leaving threats on the board. The buyback is pricey and feels like a late game thing which is not where I want to be with the deck ever. Also my opponent will likely sideboard in Rest in peace(in response to snapcaster mage that everyone else runs) nullifying the second half.
@Curdbros, Mazereon; My current sweepers are Thing in Ice and Echoing truths, Electrickery, and Detention sphere. It sounds like these are enough then. Thing is slow but should work most of the time in 2 turns.
Felidar Cat combo is too slow. This is the wrong deck for it. I play tested it a few hands to see how relevant it might come up, but it was never worth it, a win more card.
@ Curdbros; I don't have many matches under my belt yet, but the YPyro seems good in most MU, We cast Instants all the time so its just synergy. Another way I look at it is, that our opponent must solve for the additional 1/1's on the board. They are the throw away army. We can attack for weenie damage with little loss, or we can chump block forever. It can really throw there combat math off if we cast 2 instants on their combat turn to get 2 1/1's.
Another way to look at is how many games have you won with a lone protected Snapcaster Mage also a 2/1.
Overview- I have found this matchup to be rather favorable. We have ample removal for their early threats and they really are a deck that needs to amass a board with synergy to do major damaged. They need multiple humans on the board to really pressure us. I would say we are 60/40 in game one and probably get even better post board with options like Izzet Staticaster, Engineered Explosives, and Abrade.
Important cards- Our most important cards are likely Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix. Our burn spells kill all of the creatures they play in their deck and can open up the board for us to attack back through. Their most important cards are Cavern of Souls, Meddling Mage, and Aether Vial. If they can disrupt our hand early with Kitesail Freebooter, land an early Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and/or Meddling Mage they can definitely win games. With that said, we have a deck stocked full of answers for smaller creatures so they have a very tough time implementing their plan.
Sideboard options- Engineered Explosives, Izzet Staticaster, Anger of the Gods, Supreme Verdict, Abrade, Young Pyromancer, Deflecting Palm.
Summary- This is not a matchup I really worry about. I would be very happy if this matchup become prevelant.
MrTzoulis- I was planning on running one main and one in the board. I haven't made the choice yet, because I don't want to dilute the main deck draw consistency too much, however I don't think it changes much in terms of the maindeck. I really just wanted it to more easily side into a more grindy deck if I wanted. I haven't been having many problems beating the midrange and control matchups lately so it may just be a silly idea I had. Either way I am going to test it out and see how it goes because I always love to tinker :).
WickedApp- I think you have plenty of sweepers. Detention Sphere is an awesome choice. I have run it in the board before. I think you are correct about the felidar combo and that also opens up some sideboard slots for you!
Gofytomcat- I like Mr. T's suggestion for your first list. Go super aggro and really kill everyone before they can get going. I would also suggest cutting a land and Elspeth likely.
So for me, Humans usually won't be a terrible match up for most of us, most of the time. Most of us are running a lot of removal. Take care of the Mayor and champion asap. Watch for tricks with Vial if you have electrolyze or other burn spells you're playing if you're targeting any creatures. Pending person be prepared for both Thalia's, both can be troublesome but not back breaking. Don't be afraid to mulligan, don't be greedy.
I think my iteration will have an easier time with this match up due to more removal vs playing swiftspear and delver, but if you chop up their few early plays and you have a swiftspear and a flipped delver you will close the game out before I do. These human decks do not have room for removal so if you're delver flips early you're most likely good to go.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spell Queller
3 Geist of Saint Traft
Spells (25)
4 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Logic Knot
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
Sideboard
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Celestial Purge
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Wear
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Elsepth, Sun's Champion
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Supreme Verdict
I'm getting back in the habit of playing on cockatrice so im taking extensive notes. Just played against taking turns and 8rack, both 2-0.
I will post my notes later on when i play a couple more games of mtg so i can have a good set of notes for people to read.
As far as Young P is concerned I don't like him main deck, pending how your meta is. Mine is filled with so much removal thats why geist shines and everything else dies lol side I like if you have room. i go bigger against abzan and grindy match ups which is better for my deck build, but I can see young p being very good for the leaner lower curve delver/swiftspear builds. But when I would draw it, I would usually wish it was something else. You also usually should wait until you can play it alongside something to make sure you get value like when players wait to play tireless tracker until they have a land to play with it in the same turn.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
YP has so far done great for me as turn 2 removal bait drop or a turn 5 pressure drop. Elemental tokens are able to block ground pounders all day as i grind the games out if need be. I do find that YP will do very well in the later parts of the game if you have Search for Azcanta as you get plenty of fuel to power his trigger. Then again, Monastary Mentor can fulfill the same role if you are planning for the mid-late game drop to keep the pressure up.
I have beaten combo decks with YP because I know i am safe with a counterspell in my grip (Spell Pierce / Remand / Deprive) and the snowball effect happens.
YP can become a dead card in the hand like Bedlam Reveler when you have multiples. Which is why I feel 4 Serum Visions and 2 - 3 Opts are required to keep your handsize healthy. Search of Azcanta feels almost compulsory at this stage of deck building...
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
RutherJC- My meta is pretty similar to yours . Geist really shines against a lot of decks. I will likely still keep the one copy in the board for the matchups that I want to become the more controlling deck(against aggro decks I can't race).
I still think Young Pyromancer is a great option in the more midrange decks that utilize more counter magic. It just doesn't fit the more aggro-control versions in my opinion. That's ok because now I can build another jeskai prowess deck that is geared more towards midrange and I can use my Young Pyromancers and Monastery Mentors!
As always I will keep tinkering with my flex spot until I feel super comfortable. The other 59 cards haven't changed so I won't post the list again until something changes. I am playing tonight and will do a write up with how it goes.
As for your build CurdBro, pyromancer doesn't really stick with swiftspear well, since they need different builds and playstyles. Going on a more tempo build (Remands etc) favors Pyro since you don't care about playing spells on their turn, you're not losing possible damage. This comes in contrast to the aggro-control gameplan that swiftspear thrives with. Burning opponents and interacting in your turn. You're essentially playing like infect, and should be treated with the same care, especially the lists with mutagenic growth -I've 16'd people with a lone swiftspear on t2-t3.
4 Stormchaser Mage
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Boros Charm
2 Jeskai Charm
4 Path to Exile
3 Mutagenic Growth
4 Serum Visions
1 Cavern of Souls (naming Human)
3 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Inspiring Vantage
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
Sideboard
2 Hindering Light
2 Dispel
2 Pyroclasm
1 Kira, Great-Glass Spinner
2 Wear
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Stony Silence
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Only thing I dont like about this list is the number of boros charms but thats from my experience lol i would trim 1-2, and at least make snap a 4of. I like everything else. Love the kira in the side i think thats super sweet.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
I think your spot on in terms of why I am not in love with Young P in my list. It just doesn't suit my playstyle or for what I am trying to accomplish in game 1. You make great points about the difference in playstyle in aggro-control vs. tempo vs. midrange. I think sometimes people think that because the jeskai queller deck has 35-40 similar cards to jeskai control or even jeskai delver, that they play similarly, but they definitely do not.
GofyTomcat1- I like 4 snapcaster and two boros charm as well.
I agree! However I do not like to play double YP because that is a bit "all in" and open to a blow out especially in G2/G3. I do see it a viable play in certain match-ups especially against other creature heavy decks to keep my blockers up.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
It is also being discussed in a new article and GreatNate is also playing a similar list again
I basically play that list -2 colonades, -2 counterspells, -2 spell quellers, and +4 delver, +1 search for azcanta +1 boros charm
So far, 50/50 against eldrazi tron and unfair decks
feels like 70/30 against deathshadow and humans
The "jeskai tempo" deck is everywhere right now. I beleive Mr.Tzoulis is dipping his toes in the "jeskai tempo" waters as well. I love seeing it because it plays a ton of my favorite cards. It's about time jeskai got some love. I consider it more of a midrange deck rather than tempo, but the names always stick. We don't discuss it much here because it doesn't have delver and doesn't include prowess as a main aspect of the deck, but because it shares so many cards and has some aspects we can learn from it's sometimes helpful to discuss other jeskai options.
Great Nate has played this style of deck for a long time and loves it. There was an old streamer by the name of Mr.Scotty or something like that that also used to run the jeskai Geist list. I used to play a similar build, but when the prowess mechanic was invented I was hooked. I still regularly watch Nate's videos and any other jeskai deck I can because I can most likely learn something from the matches I had never thought of or something I can use in the future. You can't argue with results either. This deck has been doing very well over the prior couple of months. I think people are finally waking up to how good jeskai can be. My hope is that some pro team will say- "how can we make this more proactive?" and give delver a try, but that's likely far fetched with how well the jeskai midrange deck has been doing. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Back to the jeskai prowess deck. The card I am currently playing in my flex spot is Forked Bolt. Nothing ground breaking here, but I wanted another burn spell and thought about electrolyze, however I want to keep the curve super low. Forked bolt fit the bill for now. Has anyone here had any luck with Forked Bolt or are there better options in your opinion?.
The other options I have been toying with is a one of Peek for another instant speed cantrip for snapcaster mage and to get information in the grindy UWx control matchups which have picked up in popularity and also Unsubstantiate.
I agree you hit the nail on the head with this. CurdBro's play style is more Aggro Burn. YPyro shines in the mid-game builds or with the 'in response to your opponents' actions.
When I've played YP it was not for intent to do damage but as a roadblock to mess up my opponents tempo. It's a card that says 'kill me your next turn or you might regret it' which almost acts like a timewalk early on T2-T3 if you hold up a counter spell. It then forces you opponent to find the answer. So instead of them playing their game they are forced to play ours, while we develop.
Multiples can be good depending on where, what, how, and when. Against decks with light removal go crazy. Against decks with sweepers go very light. I look at the damage dealt by them as incidental, the real damage is stealing a turn or a kill spell from them.
Odd thing is that I like pyro over Mentor because of the casting cost, at T3 its much easier to cast and hold up a counter. Mentor is more aggro with the prowess.
I so badly want to play Monastery Mentor. He is in my top three favorite cards of all time (Geist of Saint Traft, Abbot of Keral Keep, and Monastery Mentor). I will eventually put together a mentor deck. I do agree, that the casting cost differenc is huge from 2 to 3. Young pyromancer backed by dispel is much safer than tapping out for mentor.
Just won a small local modern 3-round event with the following list
Humans 2:1
- an odd list playing hanweir garrison instead of kitesail freebooter
- Lost G1 for not having enough removal in hand and lost the race to hanweir tokens
- Remove before things got big was the strategy and G2 and G3 were won pretty smoothly even without seeing SB cards
UG Merfolk 2:1
- neat build but slow. Should've burned him instead of 1for1-ing his creatures and dragged the game to a top-decking loss G1
- G2 milked anger of the gods in starting hand to eventually wipe 4-5 creatures off the map. He scooped after seeing a snapcaster in my hand
- G3 flood on both sides, and with 5-6 mana out and a even board state, it's our advantage.
Eldrazi Tron 2:1
- Lost to natural tron G1
- G2 flew over top of thoughtknots and smashers for the win
- G3 finally saw land disruption SB cards and dragged out the game. Saw 1 Ceremonious Rejection and with 2 snaps stopped him from doing much, and slow bled him for the game.
There is a Mardu Reveler list that just got a 5-0 league and has been popping up on mtgo. People seem to remember how good Reveler can be lol
Jeskai control just got bumped to Tier 1 so it's super exciting for Jeskai players all over Mtgsalvation!
In terms on Forked Bolt, even with your lower curved prowess build I think you should just play Electrolyze. It does the same but drawing a card and being able to do it at instant speed and late game flash it back with snapcaster is SOOOO gooooooood man seriously. I am hardly ever sad to see it.
So I haven't played your deck personally but think it could be a good addition, and not sure if you are playing any main or side as of now but now that i added it in it will never leave. I think it warrants testing even if you wanna keep the curve super low.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.