in my local meta many dudes are playing hardened scales and UW Control and Jund Decks. The hexmage kills planeswalkers (Liliana the last Hope is brutal against me, the hexmage helps here) and is good against arcbound, balista and hangarback walkers.
The judges are good against combo decks like storm, ad neuseam and good against UW Control. Also they are very nice in combination with Thalia.
As i mentioned before: my goal is that the sideboard is 100% creatures, because of synergy and style... but I found no replacement for fatal push (just too strong on the removal part)
—> perhaps somebody has an idea here for a good creature based removal?!
Yeah they are not fast. But I think in a human version with champion of the parish and Thalias leautenant the sinergy could be good enough. And fiend hunter hits everything and with rally he could come back for value again. I played a human shell with teysa, orzhov scion and with doomed travelers and hunted witness and the rest black creatures, that was drain fun and removal option
What do u guys think about the New cards in modern Horizons. There are a few that are fine for Aristocrats decks:
1. Yawgmoth - very good sac outlet. Perhaps too Slow with 4 cmc. Against creature based decks just insane i think
2. Vesperlark - flexible card, reanimate the card u need
3. unearth - stitchers suplier into reanimate 3 drops on turn 2 + another one drop Sounds strong
4. carrion feeder - in my opinion a better sac outlet than cartel Aristocrat or bloodthrone vampire.
1. With Yawgmoth I totally agree. Insane against creature decks (especially humans, funnily enough) but even against others he's pretty good. Maybe a sideboard card?
2. Vesperlark seems okay, being able to get back basically anything from the graveyard for 2 mana is pretty good. The only thing is that it's not a great 2 drop unless you played stitchers supplier on turn one. I like how if you evoke it it will trigger blood artist though =P
And obviously the flexibility of also being an expensive 2/1 flyer with a good death trigger is great as well. All in all I think it probably doesn't work so well in the Rally/Return builds since they're more about returning EVERYTHING with one big spell (and it itself is 3 Mana), but I guess if there's more of a grindy value build it could
definitely be great there.
3. Unearth, basically the same as Vesperlark except that it's cheaper and flexible in a different way. Again, you could probably build more of a value build that plays some good 3 drops to make the most of Unearth being able to return them (maybe even Vesperlark).
4. Carrion feeder seems really great. I think that yeah, the only card that contests it here is Cartel Aristocrat, and they both fill the same role in quite different ways. Cartel's advantage is that it's a very hard to kill sac outlet that (while not really being a huge threat) can also get in those last few points of damage through blockers. It's also a spectacular blocker against creature decks.
Carrion feeder, on the other hand, is cheaper, and it turns into a legitimate threat fairly quickly. It is however far more vulnerable, and the deck can find it hard to function without a sac outlet. It also sucks at blocking
All in all, I think I do agree that Carrion feeder is the better of the two, because if they don't have an answer it'll probably just take over the game, and the matchups where you want blockers are ones you're probably favoured in anyway.
Anyway, I'm pretty excited to do some testing with the new cards, especially if the format slows down a bit thanks to some of the other cards in Modern Horizons.
Oof, that was a really long post. Sorry I didn't even realise
Yeah, I've been thinking about that one since it was first spoiled... I think that it has the potential to be super powerful, but in the end is just a bit too slow. Even in the best case scenario, you play Cabal Therapist turn one, turn two you can't sac anything since you can only use it's ability at the beginning of your first main phase and at that point you haven't had a chance to play any creatures. When you do play your second creature it's too late. So it's only on your third turn that you get to look at their hand, and even then it's unlikely that you actually guess correctly. Obviously it's great after that since you can strip their hand away, but in modern playing a card that doesn't guarantee interaction until turn four (and that's assuming you play it turn one AND they don't kill it) isn't fast enough. It's also a really bad topdeck later in the game.
I guess it could be a sideboard card against decks like control or grindy midrange because if they can't kill it then it's amazing, but other than that I don't think it's good enough.
Obviously I could be totally wrong, but that's what my overall thoughts on it are. I really hope that I am wrong though, I'd love for it to be good, unlikely as that is =P
Ha, that's cool. using Memnite + Ornithopter with Cabal Therapist could be fun, and acting like a mini ritual with Return is a nice synergy.
And hmm, that's a good question. I feel like Giver of Runes slots better into slower decks that have threats/disruption to protect (eldrazi and taxes, being a good example). But it could totally still work in Aristocrats. Taking a kill spell for Tidehollow Sculler, Priest of Forgotten Gods, or a big Carrion Feeder would be pretty great. It's also, as you said, good against aggro decks where we need to be blocking since it can save a blocker.
The only problem is that playing Giver of Runes could dilute the deck too much since it doesn't actually have any synergy with the deck as whole. It's not a sac outlet, and it's not really fodder either. It's a slower support piece, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but maybe something like Doomed
Traveler/Hunted Witness would just be better? Honestly, I'm not sure. It would also depend on the type of build. If you were more all in on the combo it would be worse, whereas if you were going with a slower more resilient build it would probably be better there.
All in all it could be great, and is totally worth testing, but it might just be worse than other options at the same mana cost.
Hey everyone! Longtime Aristocrat player here. I'm really hoping that the additions we got in horizons can make this archtype a solid choice. I've been debating lists and card choices and was looking for opinions. I've always ran abzan to gain access to green for collected company, satyr wayfinder, abzan ascendency, and one of my all time favorite cards "voice of resurgence". I'm debating cutting green however for a smoother mana base and I feel like there are enough cards in straight black/white to make it work. What are people opinions on this?
Hey EternalRock, I reckon that straight B/W aristocrats is a totally viable option. If you want an idea of a decklist you could have a look at Danny's list on the previous page. If you wanted to go more all in on the Rally/Return combo you could take out the Tidehollow Scullers for Rally the Ancestors or something like that. That's not to say that green doesn't have some great options, because the cards that you talked about are super strong, but I personally think that B/W has enough cards for it to work just as well, if not better thanks to a smoother mana base. I know that's not very in-depth, so if you have any questions please ask them! Not that I'll necessarily have an answer, but I'll do my best
Yeah, I mean, it seems okay. But if we want a big undercosted threat Torgaar, Famine Incarcerate just seems better (in aristocrats, at least).
The other thing is that we're not really a deck that particularly wants/needs big creatures like that.
I could be wrong, and it'd totally be worth testing, but in the end I don't think it'd fit super well.
I think i’m going to cut the bloodthrone for carrion feeder. It seems stronger (lower curve and it’s a “must deal with” card after a few sac’s; also u have a higher chance of sac-outlet into tidehollow). Another upgrade would be cutting the caves of koilos for silent clearing‘s.
The perilous myr’s are only for fun (because I want only creatures in the deck besides lands and return; but that’s a personal taste and a “style-thing”). I wanted a two mana creature based removal. They are getting a little stronger because of more 1 mana sac outlets. I think in general fatal push is stronger; on the other hand u have much more synergy with the rest of the deck and u can get them back with return.
But I have no time for testing at the moment because i’m on a long vacation
I don’t recommend creatures like horgaak: u have only supplier to fill up the graveyard. The bridge decks are way faster with that (looting, more fetch-lands and so on).
The power of aristocrats is based on many small creatures that synergies very well together (sac outlets, sac-fodder and drainers) and big recursion spell like rally or return. Hogaak needs more build-around and the bridge decks are the perfect shell i think...
Yawgmoth looks like a very strong card (sac-outlet, disruption against creature decks and card draw), but he seems a bit too slow and it‘s tough to get him back with rally. I think he is worth testing...
Hey Danny how has priest of forgotten gods worked out for you? Its ability is so neat and on theme but having to tap is for sure a drawback and leads me to believe it's a bit slow in certian situations. Have you tested other cards in its slot or is it a main stay in your list? Also have you considered a few unearth as kind of a mini ranks? I can see the cycling being good after you scry with viscera seer and see something useful. Just a little more synergy in our synergy filled deck. Flip lily might be a nice 1 or 2 of as well.
Priest is nuts if u can untapp with her. She is a creature based removal, mana ramp and draw and drain. Before priest on this slot were wall of omens or Bobs. But the priest is better in aristocrats. If she gets killed u can get her back with return.
Unearth could work if u play with some good 3-drops. But u have to be careful then if u have too many non-creature spells (if u play a PS of recursion spells too for example).
But it’s a way to accelerate the deck. But I think stitcher suplier into return to the ranks on turn 3,4 is better than unearth
hi guys! i'm playing BG Aristocrats in Pauper and with MH1, most of the cards in the mainboard are now modern legal, just want to ask you guys for some suggestion on what to upgrade here aside from the manabase:
@killer_eye Hi, I know you posted that ages ago, but I'll reply anyway. They look like some great upgrades.
A couple of other suggestions:
1. I'd recommend vicera seer as a sac outlet, probably over bloodthrone vampire. Having another one mana sac outlet that provides a lot of value over the game is pretty good. It also doesn't get blown out by a well timed removal or bounce spell blown out, or have a lot of it's value removed if your opponent has chump blockers.
2. Card draw spells like winding way and scarscale ritual are probably what you want to cut for priest of forgotten gods. It also provides card advantage and is probably just better and more synergistic.
3. If you're in B/G aristocrats have a look at the combo of Geralfs messenger, Yawgmoth, thran physician, and other undying creatures (like young wolf, and butcher ghoul which you already have). I won't explain here as it would take up like half the page, but those cards have some great synergy with the deck as a whole and offer some game winning combo options. I'd highly recommend this article if you're interested. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/much-abrew-yawgmoth-hapatra-combo-modern-magic-online&ved=2ahUKEwjJ_Oq48dTlAhVRb30KHUF_DOcQFjAFegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw39luRZX57rtLORKjIh96Ek
It is a bit more focused on the combo, and less on the grindy aristocrats train, but I think it'd be worth a look, at least.
4. You probably want some more Blood artist effects in the deck. I'd recommend the full eight (4 blood artist, 4 Zulaport cutthroat), as the deck can really kill out of nowhere once you have 2+ on the board.
5. Some sort of disruption against fast combo and would be ideal as it definitely looks like a slower, grindier type of deck. You could easily cut a bit of your removal for some hand disruption. In modern, you need to be either fast, or disruptive. This deck probably wants to be a little disruptive, very grindy and synergistic, and (if you put the Yawgmoth + undying combo in) a little bit combo ish.
That's all I can think of right now, hope it helps!
this is my actual list for BW Aristocrats in modern. What do you guys think of it? Any recommendations for improving it?
In the Sideboard I’m testing Fourth Bridge Prawler. In some matchups they are better then fatal push. More synergy with the deck, perfect for killing mana dorks: