It's Scaleable, Instant speed, Cheap to cast for everything in our graveyard. The only downside of it isn't even a downside at all when all we want to do is kill the creatures again for value. It's like the card was made just for this deck.
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Thanks for the videos! I'll be sure to look at them later, I'm on my way to FNM to try the deck more! Also, would it be possible to add them to the original post in this thread?
Trying to watch them right now but I had to turn the sound off :(. Anyways I think that while this plays similar cards to us, that this deck in the video is not exactly aristocrats. It seems to be more of a Mardu aggressive midrange deck with a human subtheme then a true aggressive aristocrats deck is. The major difference is that you have 0 copies of blood artist and instead are running 4 copies of Dark Confidant (which I absolutely wish I owned as I would be playing those or at least trying them out in my version). You are also playing a larger selection of removal spells then most of us are currently running.
The Cavern of Souls in the manabase is a very nice touch as well, but again if I am on the mogg war marshal plan then I don't think I could afford those. My Cavern would name what? Goblin? Vampire? Human? Ouphe/Cat?
Sidenote: I have some more suggestions to add to our aristocrat deck. Someone mentioned to me that Goblin Rabblemaster in our three drop would be pretty good, especially since we are playing the war marshal. I was thinking of trying it out in place of the 3 Mirran Crusaders I was currently running. Another thing, Pay No Heed might deserve a spot in the sideboard. I have found out that I can in fact choose Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and completely wreck the scapeshifting player who just sacced all of their blue and green for mountains. Giving me enough time to kill them. What do you think?
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Pay no Heed definitely is a possible inclusion in the board! I feel like Rabble might be a very good card in the deck, but trying to find out how many of him and what to play him in place of is somewhat difficult. I would say possibly Skirsdag High Priest or my mainboard Dreadbores. Also, I have thought about running a single Purphoros, God of the Forge in place of the Outpost Siege. Thoughts on that?
Also, I went 3-1 at FNM today, losing to Domain Midrange Zoo (I guess that's what I'd call it). Here's my results!
Domain Midrange
Won game 1 off of a Butcher saccing 4 creatures, and then game 2 I wasn't able to race a Wild Nacatl, Voice of Resurgence, Geist of Saint Traft start. Game 2 was a bit of a worst case scenario, as my opponent Bloodrushed FOUR Ghor-Clan Rampagers on his Thrun, the Last Troll. I was still able to dwindle him down to 2 life while I was hovering around between 4 and 5 life, but a Siege Rhino into Tribal Flames sealed the deal. I also could have won this game, but I played Blood Artist before I played Cartel Aristocrat on turn 2, leaving the 2 damage I needed for lethal on the table -_- oh well, still finding out exactly when to play what! 0-1
Game one was a very grindy matchup, as I had to path a spellskite, and a deceiver exarch in the first 4 turns. Eventually, I was able to bring in enough damage with lingering souls tokens while keeping removal mana open. Game two, I had brought in my SB suite, and I led off with a thoughtseize. After taking a mana leak from his hand (while it had a pestermite), I just played a cartel aristocrat and passed. When he finally saw the opportunity, he threw down a Deceiver Exarch and then suited him up with splinter twin. My Rakdos Charm was put to good use after his activations. 2-1
Game one,I wasn't able to keep up with an experiment one, 2 Strangleroot Geist, Scavenging Ooze,and a Loxodon Smiter. Game two, He had a similar board and got me to 1 life, but my two Blood Artists and Mogg War Marshal kept me alive with timely pro-green triggers on Cartel Aristocrat. Next turn, I decided to pay the echo cost on Mogg since I had extra mana and it paid off. I drew a third blood artist, and was able to drain for 12, while swinging for the final 2 points of damage due to the protection on my Cartel Aristocrat (lucky me!). Game 3, similar situation. I had been dropped to 2 life, and this was a very neck and neck race being kept afloat only by the Artist. My topdeck turned out to be a Rally the Ancestors, bringing back a Mogg War Marshal, 2 Doomed Traveler, a Blood Artist, and a Cartel Aristocrat, which ended the game on the spot due to saccing them to Cartel. 3-1
All in all, I got 3rd place in the deck's first real tournament testing, and while 3 of the matchups were against very similar decks, this is what I learned:
- The deck has insane staying power
- Rally the Ancestors and Mogg War Marshal are the nuts
- We have a really good matchup versus splinter twin (post board)
- If I never see another Ghor-Clan Rampager in my life I would be happy
- Skirsdag High Priest isn't all that great
- Need a replacement for him, and like you said that may very well be Goblin Rabblemaster.
I think purphoros is great when its good, but really really bad when its bad. The reason I like Outpost siege is that it can be just as explosive as purphoros could be (sorta backwards ways though) but when its not, it's not useless in your hand. Against both of my giest matches on Wednesday I played turn 4 siege on Khans and just settled in for a long game. When you start drawing two cards a turn from turn 4 you have the inevitability. Unless you deck yourself, you are never going to run out of resources and threats that they must answer. At the same time, then you do get that perfect opening of an aggressive start into Falkenrath turn 4, Siege on Dragons turn 5 you just put the game out of reach immediately. Any time they cast a spell you threaten to end the game in response.
Really glad to hear you did well. Could you post the current iteration of your deck after the tournament? Have you played with Mardu Charm yet? I started that as a 2 of on Wednesday. I thought it was just going to be Lingering Souls #5 and #6 but it really impressed me beyond that. Because I played against two decks I thought to be pretty controlling and then against scapeshift in the last round I found myself using it for the instant speed duress to clear their hand of any possible counterspells or tap them out so I could play a turn 4 Falkenrath without any worry. Because honestly I think the most important thing this deck can do against control and combo is to present a reliable threat early and apply a lot of pressure from the start. It is something that I would consider at least testing out.
Also... Cartel Aristocrat is like mother of runes. Sometimes you have to play it on two without a one drop and just force them to have the removal spell right then and there. Blood artist on an empty board is about the worst feeling play I could imagine. Then it just get bolted and your like awww... I had big plans for that guy!
Also seeing as you are saccing a whole lot of creatures things like Phyrexian Vault and Carnage Altar could be good. Goblin Assault could be another option to rabblemaster it does not die to the omnipresent bolts.
Yep! Points taken, it was a thought. As for Mardu Charm, I haven't really played with it yet, but I'm unsure as to what to take out if I were to mess around with it sadly. My list I ran tonight, was as such :
Another option for the 3 drop is Kitchen Finks. It's a nice blocker, comes back for more, and the life gain is often important. Not as aggressive as rabblemaster, nor does it generate tokens each turn, just a different option.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
Ever since Butcher of the Horde came out, I have been getting this type of deck together. Finally got to do my first tryout at the local Modern night and I'm already making changes to the original list and having a lot of fun seeing what works and what doesn't.
After playing the deck for 3 rounds (1-1-1) , I came to the conclusion that the worst card in the deck was actually Young Pyromancer. This surprised me quite a bit because I was expecting his tokens to be chumps and fuel the Butcher but I was never happy to see him. Also I think that my original build was too token focused even though Gather the Townsfolk + Falkenrath Aristocrat can be a complete blowout sometimes. I also toyed with Dragon Fodder because of the synergy with Rabblemaster but they didn't make the cut.
So the base of the deck here that I think we can all agree on is this:
4x Doomed Traveler
3x Bloodsoaked Champion (4 is probably fine but this is the easiest thing to cut back on to make room for other cards due to its replay ability throughout the game.)
4(3)x Blood Artist (I only run three because I only have three, it is also an easy cut as you definitely want to see it every game but is the worst possible draw on an empty board.)
3(4)x Mogg War Marshal (I run a fourth because I have one missing Blood Artist.)
4x Cartel Aristocrat
4x Lingering Souls
2-3x Butcher of the Horde/Falkenrath Aristocrat (Our big finisher. 4 mana and modern means we don't want to see multiples of this in the opening hand, and probably don't need them to win the game, but it definitely turns the game around when it shows up.)
2x Rally the Ancestors
4x Lightning Bolt/Path to exile (I still think path could be in the board as Red without Lightning Bolt in modern is absolutely unheard of lol.)
21-22x Lands
So, one matchup I feel we need to have proper sideboard tech for is definitely Bogles. I have not had the chance to play any matches against it, but trample lifelink guys sound terrifying. I feel like putting 2 Celestial Flare in my board sounds like a really good move. Thoughts on that?
So, one matchup I feel we need to have proper sideboard tech for is definitely Bogles. I have not had the chance to play any matches against it, but trample lifelink guys sound terrifying. I feel like putting 2 Celestial Flare in my board sounds like a really good move. Thoughts on that?
Crackling Doom is the best option because it takes away the opponent's choice. If they have something that is large enough to be a threat then it is usually a 5-for-1 or more.
Aura Barbs is probably the most direct hoser, followed by Glaring Spotlight which only deserves a spot if you are in a Bogles saturated meta.
The reason I'd play Celestial is because in the instance the opponent has more than one guy out, he will just sac the non-suited up member of his team. I want to get rid of the creature carrying unflinching courage and daybreak coronet. As for why not discard, I have a very good matchup against all of the listed decks you mentioned besides Scapeshift, of which I bring out a board suite of 4 leyline of sanctity and 4 thoughtseize. I am able to generate enough life gain and drain before they're able to set up enough pieces, and against splinter twin or Storm when they finally decide to make a move I can win at instant speed using Rally the Ancestors. The sideboard is tailored to Having easier game two's versus combo decks, while the mainboard can crush aggro and still play a strong game versus combo decks.
Currently I am 3-0 versus any forms of Twin in tournament play with no disruption mainboard besides removal spells. They don't really have any way to deal with Rally the Ancestors when they're trying to win ASAP because of my board pressure
I'll definitely think about trying Doom out also, though. It is very good
The "greatest power" clause is really what has made Doom shine for me. They rarely spread auras over more than one or two guys because they have a very poor threat density and often have to keep hands with one Bogle, some auras and land.
Even a well equipped Bogle can't kill a Falkenrath Aristocrat as long as you have sac fodder so they have to play defense or just get outpaced by flying beaters.
Another thing that people often forget is that while the creature isn't targetable, the auras are. Holding up a Disenchant effect and waiting for a Daybreak Coronet is an automatic 2-for-1 if you target the other aura (non-enchanted creature is no longer a legal target for Coronet).
If only there was an enchantment aura that destroyed another enchantment when it entered the battlefield, and it had flash. That would be the ultimate blowout against boggles.
On Topic: I like the direction that football has taken the deck. This is firstly an aggro deck. What makes us better then the other aggro deck? Our ability to outlast them in the mirror, and play a long game with all the other decks. The most important cards for this kind of strategy are Blood Artist, Rally the Ancestors, and Outpost Siege because they play double duty. Honestly... I ask you this. What does scapeshift board against our combo? How do they stop what we are doing? That is the more important question here because I think we have a fairly good matchup against combo just because of Blood Artist + Rally the Ancestors.
Another Important thing to note is that I think we should be careful about adding too much removal. At some point it could become just a bad version of the mardu midrange deck that already exsists with olivia, liliana, batterskull and so on. I don't think we want to be a bad version of that deck, we are in fact a totally different deck. While we may have lot of different options for removal (I thought of Smother earlier today against the stupid lotleth troll if dredgevine becomes popular) I don't think we can run all of it. Football plays PTE, while I play bolt. 4-6 removal /discard spells main board is about the limit. Let them ask themselves... What removal should I be running against the Aristocrats deck?! (Path to Exile is pretty good guys but you didn't hear that from me lol.)
Scapeshift Matchups actually are winnable since we are able to gain a lot of life, which forces them to need to either play overly aggressive with their spells, or they need to wait longer for getting more lands into play to hit us for more life. And I like a fair matchup of playing one land a turn, I love my odds against a deck that can't fully interact with me until turn 4. And even then it's gonna be cryptic commands and the like, as of which I'm going to have an aggressive start by then. I honestly think our combo matchups are good. Even Against storm. They're either going to have to storm for a LOT, or they're gonna have to make a bunch of goblins that will trade with an army of my guys and probably end up killing them instead
Purphoros over Siege, definitely. In order to sac dudes you have to put them into play first and Purples offers twice as much damage and Indestructable for the same CMC.
EDIT: Honestly, best removal we can run is Path/Terminate. Terminate hits everything except, obviously, Emrakul (but when he hits the board it's an auto-lose for most decks) and recurring creatures like Finks and Wurmcoil.
I'm still debating which 4-drop "Artist" is the best. The thing that makes outpost worthwhile is the utility. In a grindy game, it may be prevalent to start digging an extra card a turn. Another downside to Purphoros is that it triggers when a creature I control ENTERS the field. The 2 damage is pretty substantial though
Also, the reason I run Dreadbore over Terminate is because cards like Karn, Ugin, and Ajani Vengeant are wayyyy hard to deal with by conventional means
I'm not saying i's a bad thing. What I am saying, is that when I play a Purphoros, I very well am already going to have a large amount of creatures on the board. The added damage is definitely a big plus to the card, but I am going to have to test with the god more. Also as I said, digging extra cards a turn can be just as beneficial as the extra damage.
I've been doing a little thinking. Is outpost seige any better than chandra, pyromaster? I mean, if you always choose dragons then seige doubles up blood artist damage, but if your looking for the card advantage you get the same effect with chandra, and the option to ping away. Essentially the same casting cost.
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I've been doing a little thinking. Is outpost seige any better than chandra, pyromaster? I mean, if you always choose dragons then seige doubles up blood artist damage, but if your looking for the card advantage you get the same effect with chandra, and the option to ping away. Essentially the same casting cost.
I always asked myself this as well. The one thing that gives siege a big plus to it, however, is being able to be another "Combo" piece. Chandra can ping, but siege gives you the ability to end the game with a sac outlet and a Rally the Ancestors
The reason Siege is better in my opinion is because it is BOTH a Chandra Pyromancer AND another Blood Artist for the deck. The utility there is the reason I like it. Some games you want one and in some games you want the other. Purphoros is just a no to me. Are you holding creatures back in your hand to cast after turn 4? I don't think so. Point is he just comes down too late to be relevant. When you play a siege on 4 or 5 and put it on dragons you are winning the game on the spot.
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Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
The Cavern of Souls in the manabase is a very nice touch as well, but again if I am on the mogg war marshal plan then I don't think I could afford those. My Cavern would name what? Goblin? Vampire? Human? Ouphe/Cat?
Sidenote: I have some more suggestions to add to our aristocrat deck. Someone mentioned to me that Goblin Rabblemaster in our three drop would be pretty good, especially since we are playing the war marshal. I was thinking of trying it out in place of the 3 Mirran Crusaders I was currently running. Another thing, Pay No Heed might deserve a spot in the sideboard. I have found out that I can in fact choose Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and completely wreck the scapeshifting player who just sacced all of their blue and green for mountains. Giving me enough time to kill them. What do you think?
Also, I went 3-1 at FNM today, losing to Domain Midrange Zoo (I guess that's what I'd call it). Here's my results!
Sideboard
-1 Skirsdag High Priest
+1 Path to Exile
Game one, I went Bloodsoaked Champion --> Blood Artist --> Blood Artist, Doomed Traveler --> Butcher of the Horde. He had seen enough at that point. Game two, I had a similar start but Blood Artist got Path'd. I eventually drew into two straight Mogg War Marshals to feed the Butcher to put the game out of reach 1-1
Sideboard
-1 Skirsdag High Priest
+1 Path to Exile
Sideboard
-2 Dreadbore
-2 Skirsdag High Priest
-2 Rally the Ancestors
-1 Outpost Siege
+4 Thoughtseize
+2 Wear // Tear
+1 Path to Exile
Sideboard
-1 Skirsdag High Priest
+1 Path to Exile
All in all, I got 3rd place in the deck's first real tournament testing, and while 3 of the matchups were against very similar decks, this is what I learned:
- The deck has insane staying power
- Rally the Ancestors and Mogg War Marshal are the nuts
- We have a really good matchup versus splinter twin (post board)
- If I never see another Ghor-Clan Rampager in my life I would be happy
- Skirsdag High Priest isn't all that great
- Need a replacement for him, and like you said that may very well be Goblin Rabblemaster.
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
Really glad to hear you did well. Could you post the current iteration of your deck after the tournament? Have you played with Mardu Charm yet? I started that as a 2 of on Wednesday. I thought it was just going to be Lingering Souls #5 and #6 but it really impressed me beyond that. Because I played against two decks I thought to be pretty controlling and then against scapeshift in the last round I found myself using it for the instant speed duress to clear their hand of any possible counterspells or tap them out so I could play a turn 4 Falkenrath without any worry. Because honestly I think the most important thing this deck can do against control and combo is to present a reliable threat early and apply a lot of pressure from the start. It is something that I would consider at least testing out.
Also... Cartel Aristocrat is like mother of runes. Sometimes you have to play it on two without a one drop and just force them to have the removal spell right then and there. Blood artist on an empty board is about the worst feeling play I could imagine. Then it just get bolted and your like awww... I had big plans for that guy!
Also seeing as you are saccing a whole lot of creatures things like Phyrexian Vault and Carnage Altar could be good. Goblin Assault could be another option to rabblemaster it does not die to the omnipresent bolts.
2 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
3 Plains
1 Rugged Prairie
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
4 Blood Artist
3 Bloodsoaked Champion
2 Butcher of the Horde
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Dark Confidant
4 Doomed Traveler
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Skirsdag High Priest
2 Rally the Ancestors
2 Dreadbore
4 Lingering Souls
1 Outpost Siege
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Path to Exile
2 Shatterstorm
4 Thoughtseize
2 Wear // Tear
As I said, I am changing skirsdag into rabble now though
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Here was my starting point:
3x Doomed Traveler
2x Young Pyromancer
2x Blood Artist
3x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Butcher of the Horde
3x Falkenrath Aristocrat
Spells (23)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
3x Thoughtseize
3x Gather the Townsfolk
3x Smother
3x Lightning Helix
3x Lingering Souls
3x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Godless Shrine
2x Mountain
3x Sacred Foundry
1x Swamp
4x Windswept Heath
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Wear // Tear
3x Combust
2x Kor Firewalker
1x Rakdos Charm
2x Stony Silence
2x Cracking Doom
2x Eidolon of Rhetoric
After playing the deck for 3 rounds (1-1-1) , I came to the conclusion that the worst card in the deck was actually Young Pyromancer. This surprised me quite a bit because I was expecting his tokens to be chumps and fuel the Butcher but I was never happy to see him. Also I think that my original build was too token focused even though Gather the Townsfolk + Falkenrath Aristocrat can be a complete blowout sometimes. I also toyed with Dragon Fodder because of the synergy with Rabblemaster but they didn't make the cut.
1/2 of the Turn One Thoughtseize podcast
Twitter: @t1thoughtseize
4x Doomed Traveler
3x Bloodsoaked Champion (4 is probably fine but this is the easiest thing to cut back on to make room for other cards due to its replay ability throughout the game.)
4(3)x Blood Artist (I only run three because I only have three, it is also an easy cut as you definitely want to see it every game but is the worst possible draw on an empty board.)
3(4)x Mogg War Marshal (I run a fourth because I have one missing Blood Artist.)
4x Cartel Aristocrat
4x Lingering Souls
2-3x Butcher of the Horde/Falkenrath Aristocrat (Our big finisher. 4 mana and modern means we don't want to see multiples of this in the opening hand, and probably don't need them to win the game, but it definitely turns the game around when it shows up.)
2x Rally the Ancestors
4x Lightning Bolt/Path to exile (I still think path could be in the board as Red without Lightning Bolt in modern is absolutely unheard of lol.)
21-22x Lands
That leaves 7-9 Flex spots
I choose to fill those spots with:
1x Outpost Siege
2x Mardu Charm
3x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Thoughtseize
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
Is BB significantly harder to get than WW for your deck?
Crackling Doom is the best option because it takes away the opponent's choice. If they have something that is large enough to be a threat then it is usually a 5-for-1 or more.
Aura Barbs is probably the most direct hoser, followed by Glaring Spotlight which only deserves a spot if you are in a Bogles saturated meta.
1/2 of the Turn One Thoughtseize podcast
Twitter: @t1thoughtseize
Currently I am 3-0 versus any forms of Twin in tournament play with no disruption mainboard besides removal spells. They don't really have any way to deal with Rally the Ancestors when they're trying to win ASAP because of my board pressure
I'll definitely think about trying Doom out also, though. It is very good
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
Even a well equipped Bogle can't kill a Falkenrath Aristocrat as long as you have sac fodder so they have to play defense or just get outpaced by flying beaters.
Another thing that people often forget is that while the creature isn't targetable, the auras are. Holding up a Disenchant effect and waiting for a Daybreak Coronet is an automatic 2-for-1 if you target the other aura (non-enchanted creature is no longer a legal target for Coronet).
1/2 of the Turn One Thoughtseize podcast
Twitter: @t1thoughtseize
On Topic: I like the direction that football has taken the deck. This is firstly an aggro deck. What makes us better then the other aggro deck? Our ability to outlast them in the mirror, and play a long game with all the other decks. The most important cards for this kind of strategy are Blood Artist, Rally the Ancestors, and Outpost Siege because they play double duty. Honestly... I ask you this. What does scapeshift board against our combo? How do they stop what we are doing? That is the more important question here because I think we have a fairly good matchup against combo just because of Blood Artist + Rally the Ancestors.
Another Important thing to note is that I think we should be careful about adding too much removal. At some point it could become just a bad version of the mardu midrange deck that already exsists with olivia, liliana, batterskull and so on. I don't think we want to be a bad version of that deck, we are in fact a totally different deck. While we may have lot of different options for removal (I thought of Smother earlier today against the stupid lotleth troll if dredgevine becomes popular) I don't think we can run all of it. Football plays PTE, while I play bolt. 4-6 removal /discard spells main board is about the limit. Let them ask themselves... What removal should I be running against the Aristocrats deck?! (Path to Exile is pretty good guys but you didn't hear that from me lol.)
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
EDIT: Honestly, best removal we can run is Path/Terminate. Terminate hits everything except, obviously, Emrakul (but when he hits the board it's an auto-lose for most decks) and recurring creatures like Finks and Wurmcoil.
BWR THE ARISTAHCRATZ!
Also, the reason I run Dreadbore over Terminate is because cards like Karn, Ugin, and Ajani Vengeant are wayyyy hard to deal with by conventional means
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
I always asked myself this as well. The one thing that gives siege a big plus to it, however, is being able to be another "Combo" piece. Chandra can ping, but siege gives you the ability to end the game with a sac outlet and a Rally the Ancestors
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought