Dang, haven't visited this thread in a while, but it seems like most people are all in on the Rally strategy. Don't you guys get wiped out by graveyard hate? I'm not saying that to poo poo the rally builds or as someone brand new to the deck. I've been playing my own home brews of aristocrats for several years now and habitually come back, try new cards, get frustrated, and then move to something else.
So the basic idea here was to try a more controlling build because I figure if we wanted speed for the combo we probably wanted Dredge cards and then we're wondering why aren't just regular Dredge. On that note the idea is to block/sac profitably, grinding down the opponents life with the Artists/Zulaports and the occasional swing whilst steadily filling our yard with creatures. Then we either swing through with garg for the win or we blow them out of the water with an overwhelming Rally. Lili can also set us up for a Ult-based victory steadily if we keep her safe behind our wall of bodies.
Odd Cards:
Greater Gargadon is a hedge to try to win with a beatdown if our graveyard gets blown the hell out. Having an unremovable sac outlet is worth trying i'd say.
Blisterpod is here over Doomed Traveller for its ability to occasionally help ramp into a Rally, something i figure may hurt as we're a very low to the ground deck otherwise. May help us shave a land or two?
Mystic Retrieval is there entirely to get Rally back from the gy if disaster occurs and we get one in the yard but dont draw into it. Not gonna matter much outside the longer games i'd imagine and just ditch it with one of the many discards if it ends up in hand.
Liliana Heretical Healer is an experiment. Theoretically she has all we need and we flip her very easily. The -x has a lot of interesting applications here from some ramp with a dryad arbor or blisterpod to tideskuller shenanigans from the board and the ultimate should effectively leave us with an unending creature wall if we ever get there.
Concerns:
Card draw. I could easily see us burning through our hand and not being left with much. Would love suggestions here.
Brutal mana curve. Not much to say really. 4 colours on a low curve hurts.
Flying. Pretty much hoses us here with no Lingering Souls/Traveller spirits.
Now I barely ever get to play any more but i love to brew so i'd love input from anyone interested in trying a different take!
@Lyvefire
So I'm assuming that the mana makes it tough, but I think bloodghast would be a really good recurable creature for your deck with all the dredge and discard effects. Between stitcher and faithless looting you won't even be paying his mana cost most of the time, and you can sac him over and over again with out sacrificing valuable mana. Another card I think that has been overlooked for this deck is Yahenni, undying partisan. Free sac outlet and that thing is a powerhouse if you can get some counters on him.
I like the idea of using, liliana heretic healer because it's going to flip all the time, the walker is great, and the body by itself if you're top decking it late game is not bad with the 3 toughness and lifelink.
I like the idea of having a beatdown baddy backup plan with the gargadon. I play something similar to that in the form of phyrexian obliterator
I think playing 5 colors is super risky with the number of decks playing blood moon. It is likely you will not be able to set up before blood moon drops, so you will be forced to deal with it.
I've recently thought about playing ghostly prison as a way to just stall the board. Havn't tried it yet, but it would take care of your lingering souls concerns.
I won't pick on them because I'm not sure what a better replacement would be, but insolent neonate and blisterpod feel meh. I have recurrable guys like bloodsoaked champion and dread wanderer in my deck, but I don't love them. It's hard to play anything really meaningful for 1 mana, but that's just how it goes.
Just figured I'd give you some feedback. I don't play the rally version, but that's what I think at first glance.
I'll post my decklist soon, I change my mind with it every 5 minutes and it probably won't look similar to anyone elses here.
@Lyvefire
So I'm assuming that the mana makes it tough, but I think bloodghast would be a really good recurable creature for your deck with all the dredge and discard effects. Between stitcher and faithless looting you won't even be paying his mana cost most of the time, and you can sac him over and over again with out sacrificing valuable mana.
Bloodghast is actually a really solid idea. Not blocking is annoying but the haste lets you really apply a LOT of pressure later on too. Even to the point of a finisher with more then 1 of em out!
I must admit I havent really given much thought to the lands really (that part of deckbuilding always frustrated me because of how much math and playtesting comes into it.) but i guess it stands to reason to use a decent amount of fetches, which is a damn good combo with the Ghast. I was also looking at Fastlands though considering the overall low to the ground curve and to save the lifeloss a bit. We offset it decently with our lifegainers but i trying to play a long go game doesnt go particularly well with a manabase that consistantly stabs yourself in the foot! I was hoping to get someone with a better grasp on things input here once i had the rest more nailed down.
Another card I think that has been overlooked for this deck is Yahenni, undying partisan. Free sac outlet and that thing is a powerhouse if you can get some counters on him.
Too cmc pricey at 3 i'm afraid. Raises our intentionally low curve and slips out of Rallys golden 4 cost. I'd also imagine only gaining counters from the opponents creatures dropping off isn't a lot to go on since i don't think i'll actually end up killing their board much, just stalling and slipping past it. His indestructibility sac also means nothing to Path to exile.
I like the idea of using, liliana heretic healer because it's going to flip all the time, the walker is great, and the body by itself if you're top decking it late game is not bad with the 3 toughness and lifelink.
Agreed! Not sure why i never see her mentioned here to be honest. Shes absolutely fantastic here. Yeah flipping her is conditional but its what the deck is supposed to do (and you dont even lose a body. You get the zombie!) Only real issue i see is that shes not likely to be rallied since she slips past the ideal 2 cmc but you really shouldnt need her if that goes off. I get the feeling i'm missing something here a more seasoned Aristocrateer may be able to point out.
I like the idea of having a beatdown baddy backup plan with the gargadon. I play something similar to that in the form of phyrexian obliterator
Can also always sac your lands as a last ditch to swing too! Again dead in the graveyard outside of the most bizarre Rally the worlds ever seen but could be worse
Obliterator seems terrifying, both to face and on the manabase. If you're that deep into Black i hope you looked at Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx!
I think playing 5 colors is super risky with the number of decks playing blood moon. It is likely you will not be able to set up before blood moon drops, so you will be forced to deal with it.
4 colours technically (I will never, ever be hardcasting Mystic Retrieval) but yeah Blood Moon hurts a lot.I'm hoping the low curve helps in this regard but as you say, that may be unrealistic and too rooted in lack of experience. I think it just honestly has to be addressed in the board for the most part. Tidescullers a start but thoughtseize et all may be required.
I've recently thought about playing ghostly prison as a way to just stall the board. Havn't tried it yet, but it would take care of your lingering souls concerns.
Hmm high cmc and no contribution to the gameplan. Maybe sideboard tech? Will file away for future particularly if spirits ever got big.
I won't pick on them because I'm not sure what a better replacement would be, but insolent neonate and blisterpod feel meh. I have recurrable guys like bloodsoaked champion and dread wanderer in my deck, but I don't love them. It's hard to play anything really meaningful for 1 mana, but that's just how it goes.
I honestly don't really like Neonate much, hes kindoff a holdover. I also could see my luck ending with Retrieval stuck in my damn hand all the time without him because Faithless is the only other consistant discard (A flipped Lili can too but thats a lot more conditional). I think i may cut him for Bloodghasts but that does raise the cmc and, ironically, add another card i'd actually want him to help with discarding every now and then.
Blisterpod, as said, is supposed to help with Rally mana and gum up the board. Another side benefit over Doomed Traveller is not currently needing white mana on turn 1 which can be a pretty darn big deal in a low curve of 4 colours. He's not perfect but he could be worse.
Just figured I'd give you some feedback. I don't play the rally version, but that's what I think at first glance.
I'll post my decklist soon, I change my mind with it every 5 minutes and it probably won't look similar to anyone elses here.
I do thoroughly appreciate it and look forward to yours!
One final question to all here. Has anyone ever experimented with Crypt of Agadeem? Ran into it while combing Gatherer and it stumps me that ive never seen it anywhere at all. Yes its slow but that ability is begging to be broken by a gy deck thats prepared to take its time (probably not Dredge for example). We seem to play a lot of black creatures and in a longer game i could see this thing powering out some serious mana. Its obviously not a 4 off since of the unfortunate tapped entry but surely there's some way to break this?
abzan ascendancy and voice of resurgence are also cards you might want to consider. They used to be a pretty fundamental part of the deck a while back. Power level on voice and the token it creates can give you that beat down creature you were looking for.
I think I should give my take of the latest developments as I've seen them as old as they are so everyone's on the same page. It's generally agreed upon that the two most successful versions are self-mill combo (usually abzan) and human agro (usually orzhov). Self mill combo worked because it was actually pretty fast and pretty hard to disrupt fast enough. That changed with the unbanning of Golgari Grave Troll and the return of dredge. Despite it's rebanning, the lingering popularity of graveyard shenanigans and hollow one discard decks have made the self mill more difficult. It's not as hard as ppl think, but it's not an easy win any more. Human agro won out over other agro variants because, as stated, sacing makes you run out of resources. Xathrid Necromancer was the best answer for many reasons. The biggest being it allowed you to stay in two colors, which is pretty important for agro. The simplicity of mana allows greater threat card density in your deck. I'll explain more later when I go over the cards specifically
Other variants have come up these include:
Mardu Agro - A variant agro deck. Lighting bolt is nice. Butcher of the Horde sounds great. Ultimately, it came down to card disadvantage of sacing and extra color that made it fall behind the orzhov version
Chord (Abzan) - I'd like to take credit for trying to popularize this. The plan is to just play a 'fair' green creature deck that chorded for wincon in response. Since you don't actually need any of your pieces until you 'go off', you can just play a 'fair' game and when their shields are down chord for the piece you need to win. A sac outlet when you have your artist out, or vica versa. You can even do cute things like rally and use the rallied targets to chord. You can even EoT Maralen of the Mornsong for rally, or removal of graveyard hate. Ultimately, this deck isn't exactly the easiest to pilot. I don't think it's very popular. It can be very confusing to play, which I think is part of the fun. Especially when my opponent is completely confused as well. But you ultimately have to ask yourself, why not just play a better chord deck if you're doing this. Like Kiki chord, or nahiri, or spike feeder. etc
smallpox aristocrat - The only true control variant. And really, the more you try to make it a more control deck, the more you realize, the aristocrat aspect is the worst part of this control, and it's much better to just make it a pox deck.
Now to address some of the cards talked about and why they haven't been used, or how they will likely fare in the future:
Greater Gargadon It's not a bad card, but going back it still doesn't address Mardu's weakness vs Orzhov Humans. It actually makes it worse. It's just more card disadvantage.
Everyone agreed that Liliana, Heretical Healer was a fantastic card. The issue was that every other subarchetype of aristocrats had something else they wanted better (except one). The combo didn't care about the one extra body and the one extra card it can return as a planeswalker. That was too slow for it. The Agro meant it would have to take time off from attacking to set things up, which it doesn't want to do. The chord might want it... but it can just chord a wincon instead of value. It's been doing value all game long, it want's to turn the corner. And the pox deck would want it... but it would rather just use the veil version.
Bloodghast is a fantastic NON-HUMAN agro card. So... there's your answer why it isn't played. Xathrid Necromancer just kinda was too good. Two good one drops of Champion of the Parish and Bloodsoaked Champion. Aristocrats, cutthroat and artist on two. then go to three with the necromancer. Bloodghast has no place.
Before the release of Stitcher's Supplier, Yahenni, undying partisan. was a bad choice. Times have changed. The reason why Yahenni was bad is the same reason that mardu was bad. There just isn't a good enough reason to sac stuff. It's card disadvantage. It's very hard to finish off with just aristocrats and Yahenni and you need extra card advantage. However, if agro can now tack on rally combo, it becomes a really easy finish to rally and resac to artist triggers. The problem of Yaheni wasn't his mana cost, it was that he was extra copies of aristocrats when there really was no reason to have extra copies of aristocrats. It's true competition, though, I think is Grim Flayer. Less mana, Goyf power, more graveyard combo power binnability, and trample so chump blocking doesn't matter. As of now, indestructibility still makes it blocabke, so it's still a weaker aristocrat.
Similar to what I said with Ensnaring Bridge, Ghostly Prison is a trap, IMO. No version of aristocrat is control. At least none that will be successful. At best you can find a combo version that will chump block to fill the bin until it can combo. That's a combo deck, not a control deck. All ghostly prison will do is dilute the potency of your strategy. Better to get blockers to fill the bin for your rally.
abzan ascendancy didn't work in the self-mill combo deck because it didn't do anything there. It also didn't do anything in the chord variant. That's why it wasn't played. Orzhov had Xathrid Necromancer as extra body fillers. I can see this card coming back to popularity with an abzan agro/combo build.
voice of resurgence is great. Not in orzhov or mardu for obvious reasons. Not in abzan self mill because... it doesn't mill. I use it in the chord variant, but as stated, that's not a popular variant
This wasn't mentioned, but Athreos, God of Passage is a trap. Don't use it. When their life is low and you want to rally for the win, they will always put it in your hand, making rally dead. I guess it would work in a value or agro deck, especially with Abzan Ascendancy, but I don't think there are enough cards to put everything in one deck for that.
I don’t think this deck can properly support Grim Flayer. It creates too much tension in deck composition, where Flayer wants you to run a very diverse mix of spell types and Aristocrats want the highest creature count possible. Take a look at some Delerium decks to get a feel for how much work / deck space goes into reliably turning on Flayer’s +2/+2... Baubles, artifact creatures, a decently large interaction suite, and so forth.
Bauble is used because they don't have things that incidentally add things to graveyard as much as we are. Aristocrats is actively adding things to graveyard. We also have lingering souls, as a great way to add bodies that further diversify without actual creatures. There are other multiple creature generators as well in instant/sorceries as well as planeswalkers though the last may be too expensive. This has all been counter to the popular strategy so far of using rally to win, but the landscape is changing with Stitcher's Supplier. We can not only experiment with actual aristocrat style beatdown, but you can dig deeper faster. Definitely not as fast as dedicated delirum decks, but not impossible. I wouldn't make Grim Flayer a 4 of Maybe 2 or 3 in a deck. I would treat it more as a curve topper kind of like a 3 or 4 drop and not a 2 drop 4/4. You want plan for the aristocrat first and eventually get the Grim Flayer and use it as card advantage and threat. Bonus points if you have bob
Greater Gargadon It's not a bad card, but going back it still doesn't address Mardu's weakness vs Orzhov Humans. It actually makes it worse. It's just more card disadvantage.
I agree as an aggro style but i honestly don't see aristocrats as a deck worth following as straight aggro. Our decks thing is a 3 card synergistic function (Sac outlet, life drainer, sac-friendly card). That really doesnt lend itself to straight aggro. Do you have any comments on it as a hedge bet for a more controlling style? Thats where i think it has potential.
The main advantage is flashing it back means you don't have to try and draw it, you can just passively let it enter the gy and if you need it then its there. It also means you don't have to run multiple in hopes of drawing it so you can fit more copies of creatures to support the main game plan. At least in my experience, i had real issues fitting every creature i wanted in and still supporting some level of flexibility. Retrieval helps a lot.
I also, personally really don't like witness very much for just grabbing 1 card, particularly with the double green casting cost. It also doesn't rally well.
Snaps requires you to have a hell of a lot of mana to rally with (5 absolute minimum) and its blue with literally no other reason to be in that colour.
Everyone agreed that Liliana, Heretical Healer was a fantastic card. The issue was that every other subarchetype of aristocrats had something else they wanted better (except one). The combo didn't care about the one extra body and the one extra card it can return as a planeswalker. That was too slow for it. The Agro meant it would have to take time off from attacking to set things up, which it doesn't want to do. The chord might want it... but it can just chord a wincon instead of value. It's been doing value all game long, it want's to turn the corner. And the pox deck would want it... but it would rather just use the veil version.
So maybe i should test it regardless since im already doing something odd in that regard. I do appreciate the insight though!
Bloodghast is a fantastic NON-HUMAN agro card. So... there's your answer why it isn't played. Xathrid Necromancer just kinda was too good. Two good one drops of Champion of the Parish and Bloodsoaked Champion. Aristocrats, cutthroat and artist on two. then go to three with the necromancer. Bloodghast has no place.
I personally never liked Xathrid. I guess i also just a have personal dislike of a 3 cost card that does nothing and gets bolted. It also further cmplicates the 3 card synergy with a fourth. Good to hear some support for the Ghast though, guess Neonates very likely out now.
Before the release of Stitcher's Supplier, Yahenni, undying partisan. was a bad choice. Times have changed. The reason why Yahenni was bad is the same reason that mardu was bad. There just isn't a good enough reason to sac stuff. It's card disadvantage. It's very hard to finish off with just aristocrats and Yahenni and you need extra card advantage. However, if agro can now tack on rally combo, it becomes a really easy finish to rally and resac to artist triggers. The problem of Yaheni wasn't his mana cost, it was that he was extra copies of aristocrats when there really was no reason to have extra copies of aristocrats. It's true competition, though, I think is Grim Flayer. Less mana, Goyf power, more graveyard combo power binnability, and trample so chump blocking doesn't matter. As of now, indestructibility still makes it blocabke, so it's still a weaker aristocrat.
I'm still just really not sold on a slow to act 3 cost card that gets nothing past the first sacrifice (the counters are opponents creatures only) and his biggest positive is negated by eating a path to exile. Also rallying for 5 is a lot slower than 4 so i don't see much of a future with him in the combo.
I mean i could be brought around by someone showing results but i really just can't see the benefits right now.
abzan ascendancy didn't work in the self-mill combo deck because it didn't do anything there. It also didn't do anything in the chord variant. That's why it wasn't played. Orzhov had Xathrid Necromancer as extra body fillers. I can see this card coming back to popularity with an abzan agro/combo build.
I'm already skeptical of Yahenni as a 3 cost, slow acting outlet, i'm absolutely baffled by ascendancy. Thats some really rough mana for a do-nothing turn 3. Yet i do remember this posting results at some point. Maybe i need to work on my mindset here.
voice of resurgence is great. Not in orzhov or mardu for obvious reasons. Not in abzan self mill because... it doesn't mill. I use it in the chord variant, but as stated, that's not a popular variant
Any idea if anyone has considered trying it as a sideboard for decks that love to mess with your gameplan? I could see it getting som real value against Jeskai for example?
I agree as an aggro style but i honestly don't see aristocrats as a deck worth following as straight aggro. Our decks thing is a 3 card synergistic function (Sac outlet, life drainer, sac-friendly card). That really doesnt lend itself to straight aggro. Do you have any comments on it as a hedge bet for a more controlling style? Thats where i think it has potential.
I think you're undervaluing the agro aspect of aristocrats. I was one of the first ones to identify that it was too weak and to move onto the rally plan, but you're not crediting it enough. Gargodon might have a bigger body, but it can easily be chump blocked. The strength of the aristocrat is it's ability to be unblockable with it's protection and make it unkillable while synergizing with extra artist/cutthroat damage. The problem was always about running out of resources to finish the job. Everyone turned to rally initially as a finisher. Everyone used the aristocrats to do the brunt of the initial damage than rallied for the finish. Then everyone figured out you didn't need to do that. You could just go all in with the rally. Those that didn't, took the human necromancer route because that answered the problem of running out of resources. Aristocrats lends itself to agro very well. That you're sacing and putting yourself in disadvantage doesn't put yourself in a good position to control the game. The only deck that does that is pox and that does that because the opponent has to sack as well and usually has to sac more than you do.
This is why I'm saying the aristocrats deck can now go back to the middle ground and not have to go all in with either agro or self mill. Sticher's supplier helps both and glues both together. You can create a shell to encompass both and have sideboard to pivot further in either direction. My initial instinct is that a control shell wouldn't work for aristocrats. You might do better with a Golgari sac grave deck. Maybe a Faerie deck? I don't know. It would be very far from any of the current archetypes. Pox is already pretty far from the current archetypes by most people's standards and no one talks about it.
I personally never liked Xathrid. I guess i also just a have personal dislike of a 3 cost card that does nothing and gets bolted. It also further cmplicates the 3 card synergy with a fourth. Good to hear some support for the Ghast though, guess Neonates very likely out now.
It doesn't do nothing. The moment it drops you can instantly sac your humans to get extra bodies. That's X Artist triggers, X Viscera Scrys, and X Zombies. Then those extra X zombies furhter become extra X artist triggers and extra X Viscera Scrys. Go ahead and let it get bolted. As for it's synergy, it's not a card you rely on. It's a card you use for extra reach and finish.
I'm not sure whose assessment you are referring too here. Admittedly i don't think anyones in love with it.
You mentioned it over Doomed traveler for mana for rally. I find it superior in most cases except chord which always wants a green creature to tap (like young wolf) or if you want fliers for more agro (for abzan ascendancy)
I'm still just really not sold on a slow to act 3 cost card that gets nothing past the first sacrifice (the counters are opponents creatures only) and his biggest positive is negated by eating a path to exile. Also rallying for 5 is a lot slower than 4 so i don't see much of a future with him in the combo.
I mean i could be brought around by someone showing results but i really just can't see the benefits right now.
First, he has haste, so he's not that slow.
Second, you don't put 4 of him. put like 2. Treat it as an expensive aristocrat sac outlet with upside.
Third, path is less popular now that push is in the format
Fourth, forget rallying him. Like I said you only put 2 so it's less likely to be out or binned
That said though, I still wouldn't place him. I still like Grim Flayer more because of trample and graveyard binning. Aristocrat's true power is unblockable and self protection. GF can't protect himself, but I'd still run him over Yahenni.
I'm already skeptical of Yahenni as a 3 cost, slow acting outlet, i'm absolutely baffled by ascendancy. Thats some really rough mana for a do-nothing turn 3. Yet i do remember this posting results at some point. Maybe i need to work on my mindset here.(talking about abzan ascendency)
1) It's an enchantment. No one carries enchantment hate
2) Your aristocrats are now 3/3s
3) Your sacs create bodies
4) The bodies created are 1/1 FLIERS
So basically when you sac your Stictcher Supplier, Blisterpod, Satyr Wayfinder or whatever, you get to attack with your aristocrat for three damage, you get to drain with your artist/cutthroat, and get a flier to block just in case, or sac on the next turn. Anthem your team, get extra bodies, get extra drains and hard to remove. What's the complaint here?
Any idea if anyone has considered trying it[Voice of Resurgence] as a sideboard for decks that love to mess with your gameplan? I could see it getting som real value against Jeskai for example?
It was a different time when ppl last talked here. Control was pretty dead. I'd say it's a pretty good idea to main deck a few depending on your meta. But again, this is coming from the guy that played the chord variant that leaned on green heavily.
The main advantage is flashing it back means you don't have to try and draw it, you can just passively let it enter the gy and if you need it then its there. It also means you don't have to run multiple in hopes of drawing it so you can fit more copies of creatures to support the main game plan. At least in my experience, i had real issues fitting every creature i wanted in and still supporting some level of flexibility. Retrieval helps a lot.
I also, personally really don't like witness very much for just grabbing 1 card, particularly with the double green casting cost. It also doesn't rally well.
Snaps requires you to have a hell of a lot of mana to rally with (5 absolute minimum) and its blue with literally no other reason to be in that colour.
I didn't do the math, but I think the chances of binning your 1 card to get the other 4 is still less likely than drawing 3 eternal witnesses with 4 rallies being able to be drawn. TBH, your reasoning was part of the reason why I made the chord variant. I didn't like waiting for the rally. I didn't like thinking of binning by rally without getting it back reliably. Chord solved that. Chord for e-witness and I get the rally any time I want to. A lot more flexible and I don't need to add red or blue. I also added a nice toolbox element to be able to get anti graveyard much faster than any other aristocrat deck could.
I think it's an interesting direction and adding Faithless Looting definitely helps address the main issue of not having enough setup cards. However, the mana is stretched a little too thin for my tastes.
Blue is a good match for the all-in Rally plan, and I think Esper could give you everything you need. Hedron crab adds another high efficiency mill piece, joined by Ideas Unbound, which is possibly better than Faithless Looting in this shell since it digs deeper for Rally and also lets you cast cards you draw before end of turn once you're at 3+ mana. Baby Jace is perfect for the deck since he digs for Rally, loots away creatures, and can cast discarded Rally/Returns (or Ideas Unbound when you need more GY fuel). I found the Bridge plan to be spicy but fragile, didn't really like Magus of the Bazaar, and found the deck to be more consistent when you go up to 8 Blood Artists as we discussed.
The 3x flex slots are probably going to be Wall of Omens (helps dig for Rally), Bloodghast (good with lots of fetches but maybe not necessary with 6x Rally effects?), Mausoleum Wanderer (our biggest weakness often revolves around spells), or Sidisi's Faithful (nice stats for delaying the game until we want to combo)... they all have merits.
With 15x mill/looting cards and 6x Rally/Return effects the deck is reasonably consistent at comboing out ~T4 if left to its own devices. It's still mostly "Bad Dredge" but with some perks like not needing to rely on combat, I suppose.
Thought I would share a build of aristocrats that I've been having success with, albeit at an early stage in my testing. It's a mardu build that is trying to quickly fill the graveyard and then build up for a quick rally/return to the ranks for a big drain turn. I don't think that this aspect is very unique. But I have also combined the aristocrats effects with Bridge from Below, which gives a complimentary plan B. I'm new to modern, so I do not know if this has been done before but it's actually been very powerful. Of course, stitcher's supplier has been the card that allows this approach to work.
In the limited testing, I've had a number of turn three kills - one of which was an actual turn three but the others were virtual turn three kills where I've amassed in insurmountable board presence. Compared to other graveyard decks, the instant nature of rally and sacrificing to get zombies via bridge allows some play around graveyard hate, which has me considering moving away from my primary deck (dredge) for this deck.
So far I'm 2-1 against Mardu Pryo (loss was an embarrassing punt), 2-0 infect, 2-0 spirits, 1-1 elves, 1-0 hoogland's dragon deck, 1-0 UR Wizards, 2-0 Bridgevine. So yes, still early in testing but since this thread isn't super active I thought it would be worth sharing.
EDIT: I should mention that this decklist is pretty raw and the sideboard certainly needs some adjustments. I would certainly add some wrath affects. My thought with the GaoZ was do board them in for opponents that overload on graveyard hate, but so far, there hasn't been the need so he is probably on the chopping block.
It looks like I may have spoken too quickly about Bridge, which is doing well in this Vengevine list currently picking up steam. I haven't played with the Vengevine list yet but I'd guess that if you're looking for a competitive deck with some Aristocrat elements to it this is probably the way to go.
I absolutely believe BfB is the way to go. Been putting up really good results on the leagues with an updated version of the deck posted above: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1242900
Yeah I think you're right. In the recent PT, there was even a regular BR Bridge Vine list that was running 2 Blood Artists, it makes sense since it gives the deck reach but it's kind of against its plan A.
I think your list really needs Gravecrawler, being able to pay B to get a death trigger and any zombies from Bridge is too good to pass up.
@moush, have you played the bridge Vine list? I like your suggestion for the Gravecrawler but wonder your thoughts on whether additional copies of Bloodghast would be better. I feel that the flex spots in an aristocrats build is limited. BfB probably elevates Gravecrawler/Bloodghast above Doomed Traveler in terms of generating cheap tokens for sacrificing, so I can see replacing that card for either additional copies of Bloodghast or Gravecrawler. I originally considered cutting the Lingering Souls but they have been too important in mana fixing Return to the Ranks and defense in Humans/Mardu Pyro matchup.
Yeah I'm unsure which is better between bloodghast and gravecrawler. The Bridgevine list runs 4 crawlers because it needs cast triggers, where your list does not. One other benefit to gravecrawler is it will comeback with rally on 1, which you are already pretty likely to be casting. Your right about Lingering Souls, I think it's a required 4-of in a grindy graveyard deck like this.
There is a lot of redundancy in every aspect of the deck: sac outlets, token makers, life drain creatures, mass resurrection spells. The basic strategy is to trade or sac creatures, then cast Rally or Return to bring everything back and burn them out with a sac outlet + life drain creature. Stitcher's Supplier can speed this up by milling more creatures.
I think there's better options than Smuggler's Copter. In the main I want as many creatures as possible for Rally/Return and Copter doesn't have that card type. In the side I don't think it does enough against RIP/black Leyline, and a straight-up answer like Cub or Fragmentize would be better.
The Anafenza combo is win-more. A good Rally/Return should give you enough fuel to burn your opponent out without having to resort to infinites. Another strike against it is that I don't have Collected Company to put 2 pieces of that 4-card combo into play.
So I played the list three posts up. While I can't say I was satisfied with my play (missing triggers and making scrubby mistakes left and right), I do think it has potential to be a good, competitive deck.
It's strong against decks that play 1-for-1 removal, such as Jund, which you'll likely see more of with the addition of Assassin's Trophy. Board wipes can be overcome with Traveler/Witness making tokens on death, life drain from Artist/Cutthroat, Seer saccing doomed creatures to dig towards Return/Rally, and Aristocrat doing the same to make herself indestructible. It can be daunting to play against those decks since they have giant Tarmogoyfs while you only have 1/1s, but once you have a Spirit army going, or a huge Rally/Return, it's over.
Shambling Vent has been blown up by Field of Ruin quite a few times, but I'm OK with that since I didn't have anything else to do with my mana on those turns anyway. You could replace some copies of it with Horizon Canopy, but then you'd lose black sources.
Some tips:
- Between Doomed Traveler and Hunted Witness, you'll usually want to lead with Traveler. When it dies, the Spirit can poke in the air while your other creatures meatwall the ground.
- You can exile a card forever with Tidehollow Sculler if you have a sac outlet. Cast Sculler, hold priority, then sac it. The death trigger resolves first, returning nothing, then the ETB trigger resolves and exiles a card. If your opponent foolishly kills Sculler in response to its ETB, it has the same effect.
- When scrying for Viscera Seer, leave creatures on top if you know you have a Stitcher's Supplier trigger before you draw it. Conversely, if you know you're going to Rally/Return back a Supplier, don't leave noncreatures on top.
- You need at least two white sources for Return to the Ranks. 1-drops are free on Return turns since they can tap to convoke, and Traveler/Witness are better than free since you can sac them and use the tokens to bring their dead bodies back.
- Rally the Ancestors needs a sac outlet to get value out of your creatures, because they'll be exiled to Rally. Keep your sac outlets close by, don't sac them just for random scrys or life drain. Alternatively you can Rally after your opponent declares attackers, and block them.
- You can overpay for Rally the Ancestors to dodge Spell Queller. It's also a way of getting Liliana back, which Return can't do.
- Mana wise, a Plains + Swamp + B/W dual or 2 B/W duals and any third land will let you cast everything in your deck. Some plays are heavy on white (Rally/Return) while others are heavy on black (Liliana, life drainer + black 1-drop).
- Bring in Fragmentize against any deck you suspect could be playing Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void. The risk of losing to those cards is too great, and even if they don't draw them, you might be able to destroy something else like a Search for Azcanta or Eidolon of the Great Revel. Keep in Tidehollow Sculler against RIP decks too. I had Felidar Cub in the enchantment removal slot, but I think Fragmentize is better since it gets rid of Grafdigger's Cage too.
- Bring in Fatal Push against any deck you suspect could be playing Scavenging Ooze.
- When SBing, common cuts are Stitcher's Supplier, Tidehollow Sculler, and Blood Artist (against creature-light control/combo decks).
- Don't forget your triggers, this definitely cost me a few games. One creature dying may create multiple triggers (scry, make token/mill, life drain). It helps that when you sac to Seer, scry (i.e. the decision that requires most thought) always resolves last, so you can't tank on a scry and forget the other actions (and if you do, it's already too late). Postboard, Auriok Champion triggers multiple times if you Rally/Return a bunch of creatures back. If you're playing on MTGO, the triggers are put on the stack automatically for you, so you don't have to devote mental energy to this task.
This list got posted in the 5-0 on MTGO. I'm liking the direction with Stitcher's Supplier filling the graveyard to enable rally/return but it looks unoptimized.
4x Blood Artist
2x Cartel Aristocrat
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Faithless Looting
2x Greater Gargadon
4x Insolent Neonate
2x Liliana, Heretical Healer
1x Mystic Retrieval
4x Rally the Ancestors
4x Satyr Wayfinder
4x Stitcher's Supplier
4x Viscera Seer
2x Zulaport Cutthroat
18x Lands
So the basic idea here was to try a more controlling build because I figure if we wanted speed for the combo we probably wanted Dredge cards and then we're wondering why aren't just regular Dredge. On that note the idea is to block/sac profitably, grinding down the opponents life with the Artists/Zulaports and the occasional swing whilst steadily filling our yard with creatures. Then we either swing through with garg for the win or we blow them out of the water with an overwhelming Rally. Lili can also set us up for a Ult-based victory steadily if we keep her safe behind our wall of bodies.
Odd Cards:
Greater Gargadon is a hedge to try to win with a beatdown if our graveyard gets blown the hell out. Having an unremovable sac outlet is worth trying i'd say.
Blisterpod is here over Doomed Traveller for its ability to occasionally help ramp into a Rally, something i figure may hurt as we're a very low to the ground deck otherwise. May help us shave a land or two?
Mystic Retrieval is there entirely to get Rally back from the gy if disaster occurs and we get one in the yard but dont draw into it. Not gonna matter much outside the longer games i'd imagine and just ditch it with one of the many discards if it ends up in hand.
Liliana Heretical Healer is an experiment. Theoretically she has all we need and we flip her very easily. The -x has a lot of interesting applications here from some ramp with a dryad arbor or blisterpod to tideskuller shenanigans from the board and the ultimate should effectively leave us with an unending creature wall if we ever get there.
Concerns:
Card draw. I could easily see us burning through our hand and not being left with much. Would love suggestions here.
Brutal mana curve. Not much to say really. 4 colours on a low curve hurts.
Flying. Pretty much hoses us here with no Lingering Souls/Traveller spirits.
Now I barely ever get to play any more but i love to brew so i'd love input from anyone interested in trying a different take!
So I'm assuming that the mana makes it tough, but I think bloodghast would be a really good recurable creature for your deck with all the dredge and discard effects. Between stitcher and faithless looting you won't even be paying his mana cost most of the time, and you can sac him over and over again with out sacrificing valuable mana. Another card I think that has been overlooked for this deck is Yahenni, undying partisan. Free sac outlet and that thing is a powerhouse if you can get some counters on him.
I like the idea of using, liliana heretic healer because it's going to flip all the time, the walker is great, and the body by itself if you're top decking it late game is not bad with the 3 toughness and lifelink.
I like the idea of having a beatdown baddy backup plan with the gargadon. I play something similar to that in the form of phyrexian obliterator
I think playing 5 colors is super risky with the number of decks playing blood moon. It is likely you will not be able to set up before blood moon drops, so you will be forced to deal with it.
I've recently thought about playing ghostly prison as a way to just stall the board. Havn't tried it yet, but it would take care of your lingering souls concerns.
I won't pick on them because I'm not sure what a better replacement would be, but insolent neonate and blisterpod feel meh. I have recurrable guys like bloodsoaked champion and dread wanderer in my deck, but I don't love them. It's hard to play anything really meaningful for 1 mana, but that's just how it goes.
Just figured I'd give you some feedback. I don't play the rally version, but that's what I think at first glance.
I'll post my decklist soon, I change my mind with it every 5 minutes and it probably won't look similar to anyone elses here.
Bloodghast is actually a really solid idea. Not blocking is annoying but the haste lets you really apply a LOT of pressure later on too. Even to the point of a finisher with more then 1 of em out!
I must admit I havent really given much thought to the lands really (that part of deckbuilding always frustrated me because of how much math and playtesting comes into it.) but i guess it stands to reason to use a decent amount of fetches, which is a damn good combo with the Ghast. I was also looking at Fastlands though considering the overall low to the ground curve and to save the lifeloss a bit. We offset it decently with our lifegainers but i trying to play a long go game doesnt go particularly well with a manabase that consistantly stabs yourself in the foot! I was hoping to get someone with a better grasp on things input here once i had the rest more nailed down.
Decisions, Decisions!
Too cmc pricey at 3 i'm afraid. Raises our intentionally low curve and slips out of Rallys golden 4 cost. I'd also imagine only gaining counters from the opponents creatures dropping off isn't a lot to go on since i don't think i'll actually end up killing their board much, just stalling and slipping past it. His indestructibility sac also means nothing to Path to exile.
Agreed! Not sure why i never see her mentioned here to be honest. Shes absolutely fantastic here. Yeah flipping her is conditional but its what the deck is supposed to do (and you dont even lose a body. You get the zombie!) Only real issue i see is that shes not likely to be rallied since she slips past the ideal 2 cmc but you really shouldnt need her if that goes off. I get the feeling i'm missing something here a more seasoned Aristocrateer may be able to point out.
Can also always sac your lands as a last ditch to swing too! Again dead in the graveyard outside of the most bizarre Rally the worlds ever seen but could be worse
Obliterator seems terrifying, both to face and on the manabase. If you're that deep into Black i hope you looked at Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx!
4 colours technically (I will never, ever be hardcasting Mystic Retrieval) but yeah Blood Moon hurts a lot.I'm hoping the low curve helps in this regard but as you say, that may be unrealistic and too rooted in lack of experience. I think it just honestly has to be addressed in the board for the most part. Tidescullers a start but thoughtseize et all may be required.
Hmm high cmc and no contribution to the gameplan. Maybe sideboard tech? Will file away for future particularly if spirits ever got big.
I honestly don't really like Neonate much, hes kindoff a holdover. I also could see my luck ending with Retrieval stuck in my damn hand all the time without him because Faithless is the only other consistant discard (A flipped Lili can too but thats a lot more conditional). I think i may cut him for Bloodghasts but that does raise the cmc and, ironically, add another card i'd actually want him to help with discarding every now and then.
Blisterpod, as said, is supposed to help with Rally mana and gum up the board. Another side benefit over Doomed Traveller is not currently needing white mana on turn 1 which can be a pretty darn big deal in a low curve of 4 colours. He's not perfect but he could be worse.
I do thoroughly appreciate it and look forward to yours!
One final question to all here. Has anyone ever experimented with Crypt of Agadeem? Ran into it while combing Gatherer and it stumps me that ive never seen it anywhere at all. Yes its slow but that ability is begging to be broken by a gy deck thats prepared to take its time (probably not Dredge for example). We seem to play a lot of black creatures and in a longer game i could see this thing powering out some serious mana. Its obviously not a 4 off since of the unfortunate tapped entry but surely there's some way to break this?
@Shogun1987
I think I should give my take of the latest developments as I've seen them as old as they are so everyone's on the same page. It's generally agreed upon that the two most successful versions are self-mill combo (usually abzan) and human agro (usually orzhov). Self mill combo worked because it was actually pretty fast and pretty hard to disrupt fast enough. That changed with the unbanning of Golgari Grave Troll and the return of dredge. Despite it's rebanning, the lingering popularity of graveyard shenanigans and hollow one discard decks have made the self mill more difficult. It's not as hard as ppl think, but it's not an easy win any more. Human agro won out over other agro variants because, as stated, sacing makes you run out of resources. Xathrid Necromancer was the best answer for many reasons. The biggest being it allowed you to stay in two colors, which is pretty important for agro. The simplicity of mana allows greater threat card density in your deck. I'll explain more later when I go over the cards specifically
Other variants have come up these include:
Now to address some of the cards talked about and why they haven't been used, or how they will likely fare in the future:
I agree as an aggro style but i honestly don't see aristocrats as a deck worth following as straight aggro. Our decks thing is a 3 card synergistic function (Sac outlet, life drainer, sac-friendly card). That really doesnt lend itself to straight aggro. Do you have any comments on it as a hedge bet for a more controlling style? Thats where i think it has potential.
I'm not sure whose assessment you are referring too here. Admittedly i don't think anyones in love with it.
The main advantage is flashing it back means you don't have to try and draw it, you can just passively let it enter the gy and if you need it then its there. It also means you don't have to run multiple in hopes of drawing it so you can fit more copies of creatures to support the main game plan. At least in my experience, i had real issues fitting every creature i wanted in and still supporting some level of flexibility. Retrieval helps a lot.
I also, personally really don't like witness very much for just grabbing 1 card, particularly with the double green casting cost. It also doesn't rally well.
Snaps requires you to have a hell of a lot of mana to rally with (5 absolute minimum) and its blue with literally no other reason to be in that colour.
So maybe i should test it regardless since im already doing something odd in that regard. I do appreciate the insight though!
I personally never liked Xathrid. I guess i also just a have personal dislike of a 3 cost card that does nothing and gets bolted. It also further cmplicates the 3 card synergy with a fourth. Good to hear some support for the Ghast though, guess Neonates very likely out now.
I'm still just really not sold on a slow to act 3 cost card that gets nothing past the first sacrifice (the counters are opponents creatures only) and his biggest positive is negated by eating a path to exile. Also rallying for 5 is a lot slower than 4 so i don't see much of a future with him in the combo.
I mean i could be brought around by someone showing results but i really just can't see the benefits right now.
I'm already skeptical of Yahenni as a 3 cost, slow acting outlet, i'm absolutely baffled by ascendancy. Thats some really rough mana for a do-nothing turn 3. Yet i do remember this posting results at some point. Maybe i need to work on my mindset here.
Any idea if anyone has considered trying it as a sideboard for decks that love to mess with your gameplan? I could see it getting som real value against Jeskai for example?
I think you're undervaluing the agro aspect of aristocrats. I was one of the first ones to identify that it was too weak and to move onto the rally plan, but you're not crediting it enough. Gargodon might have a bigger body, but it can easily be chump blocked. The strength of the aristocrat is it's ability to be unblockable with it's protection and make it unkillable while synergizing with extra artist/cutthroat damage. The problem was always about running out of resources to finish the job. Everyone turned to rally initially as a finisher. Everyone used the aristocrats to do the brunt of the initial damage than rallied for the finish. Then everyone figured out you didn't need to do that. You could just go all in with the rally. Those that didn't, took the human necromancer route because that answered the problem of running out of resources. Aristocrats lends itself to agro very well. That you're sacing and putting yourself in disadvantage doesn't put yourself in a good position to control the game. The only deck that does that is pox and that does that because the opponent has to sack as well and usually has to sac more than you do.
This is why I'm saying the aristocrats deck can now go back to the middle ground and not have to go all in with either agro or self mill. Sticher's supplier helps both and glues both together. You can create a shell to encompass both and have sideboard to pivot further in either direction. My initial instinct is that a control shell wouldn't work for aristocrats. You might do better with a Golgari sac grave deck. Maybe a Faerie deck? I don't know. It would be very far from any of the current archetypes. Pox is already pretty far from the current archetypes by most people's standards and no one talks about it.
It doesn't do nothing. The moment it drops you can instantly sac your humans to get extra bodies. That's X Artist triggers, X Viscera Scrys, and X Zombies. Then those extra X zombies furhter become extra X artist triggers and extra X Viscera Scrys. Go ahead and let it get bolted. As for it's synergy, it's not a card you rely on. It's a card you use for extra reach and finish.
You mentioned it over Doomed traveler for mana for rally. I find it superior in most cases except chord which always wants a green creature to tap (like young wolf) or if you want fliers for more agro (for abzan ascendancy)
First, he has haste, so he's not that slow.
Second, you don't put 4 of him. put like 2. Treat it as an expensive aristocrat sac outlet with upside.
Third, path is less popular now that push is in the format
Fourth, forget rallying him. Like I said you only put 2 so it's less likely to be out or binned
That said though, I still wouldn't place him. I still like Grim Flayer more because of trample and graveyard binning. Aristocrat's true power is unblockable and self protection. GF can't protect himself, but I'd still run him over Yahenni.
1) It's an enchantment. No one carries enchantment hate
2) Your aristocrats are now 3/3s
3) Your sacs create bodies
4) The bodies created are 1/1 FLIERS
So basically when you sac your Stictcher Supplier, Blisterpod, Satyr Wayfinder or whatever, you get to attack with your aristocrat for three damage, you get to drain with your artist/cutthroat, and get a flier to block just in case, or sac on the next turn. Anthem your team, get extra bodies, get extra drains and hard to remove. What's the complaint here?
It was a different time when ppl last talked here. Control was pretty dead. I'd say it's a pretty good idea to main deck a few depending on your meta. But again, this is coming from the guy that played the chord variant that leaned on green heavily.
I didn't do the math, but I think the chances of binning your 1 card to get the other 4 is still less likely than drawing 3 eternal witnesses with 4 rallies being able to be drawn. TBH, your reasoning was part of the reason why I made the chord variant. I didn't like waiting for the rally. I didn't like thinking of binning by rally without getting it back reliably. Chord solved that. Chord for e-witness and I get the rally any time I want to. A lot more flexible and I don't need to add red or blue. I also added a nice toolbox element to be able to get anti graveyard much faster than any other aristocrat deck could.
I think it's an interesting direction and adding Faithless Looting definitely helps address the main issue of not having enough setup cards. However, the mana is stretched a little too thin for my tastes.
I've been exploring ways to update QMUNKE's 5-0 Esper Rally list from 2016.
Blue is a good match for the all-in Rally plan, and I think Esper could give you everything you need. Hedron crab adds another high efficiency mill piece, joined by Ideas Unbound, which is possibly better than Faithless Looting in this shell since it digs deeper for Rally and also lets you cast cards you draw before end of turn once you're at 3+ mana. Baby Jace is perfect for the deck since he digs for Rally, loots away creatures, and can cast discarded Rally/Returns (or Ideas Unbound when you need more GY fuel). I found the Bridge plan to be spicy but fragile, didn't really like Magus of the Bazaar, and found the deck to be more consistent when you go up to 8 Blood Artists as we discussed.
The 3x flex slots are probably going to be Wall of Omens (helps dig for Rally), Bloodghast (good with lots of fetches but maybe not necessary with 6x Rally effects?), Mausoleum Wanderer (our biggest weakness often revolves around spells), or Sidisi's Faithful (nice stats for delaying the game until we want to combo)... they all have merits.
With 15x mill/looting cards and 6x Rally/Return effects the deck is reasonably consistent at comboing out ~T4 if left to its own devices. It's still mostly "Bad Dredge" but with some perks like not needing to rely on combat, I suppose.
4x Hedron Crab
4x Stitcher's Supplier
4x Viscera Seer
2x Cartel Aristocrat
4x Blood Artist
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
3x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3x Flex Slots
4x Ideas Unbound
4x Rally the Ancestors
2x Return to the Ranks
Land (22)
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
3x Marsh Flats
3x Hallowed Fountain
1x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
2x Swamp
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Darkslick Shores
In the limited testing, I've had a number of turn three kills - one of which was an actual turn three but the others were virtual turn three kills where I've amassed in insurmountable board presence. Compared to other graveyard decks, the instant nature of rally and sacrificing to get zombies via bridge allows some play around graveyard hate, which has me considering moving away from my primary deck (dredge) for this deck.
Here's the decklist https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1242900
I recently played against Hoogland on my second game using this deck. See https://youtu.be/hZDwjUa7GkM?t=21m30s. There was a pretty funny play in game 1, but I won't spoil here.
So far I'm 2-1 against Mardu Pryo (loss was an embarrassing punt), 2-0 infect, 2-0 spirits, 1-1 elves, 1-0 hoogland's dragon deck, 1-0 UR Wizards, 2-0 Bridgevine. So yes, still early in testing but since this thread isn't super active I thought it would be worth sharing.
EDIT: I should mention that this decklist is pretty raw and the sideboard certainly needs some adjustments. I would certainly add some wrath affects. My thought with the GaoZ was do board them in for opponents that overload on graveyard hate, but so far, there hasn't been the need so he is probably on the chopping block.
I think your list really needs Gravecrawler, being able to pay B to get a death trigger and any zombies from Bridge is too good to pass up.
2 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Godless Shrine
2 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Concealed Courtyard
3 Shambling Vent
4 Viscera Seer
2 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Hunted Witness
4 Blood Artist
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
4 Return to the Ranks
4 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
3 Fragmentize
2 Stony Silence
1 Remorseful Cleric
2 Auriok Champion
This deck can't function without a graveyard, hence the Fragmentizes for destroying Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Also, Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit + Safehold Elite form a game winning combo with a sac'-outlet and a drain creature.
The Anafenza combo is win-more. A good Rally/Return should give you enough fuel to burn your opponent out without having to resort to infinites. Another strike against it is that I don't have Collected Company to put 2 pieces of that 4-card combo into play.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
It's strong against decks that play 1-for-1 removal, such as Jund, which you'll likely see more of with the addition of Assassin's Trophy. Board wipes can be overcome with Traveler/Witness making tokens on death, life drain from Artist/Cutthroat, Seer saccing doomed creatures to dig towards Return/Rally, and Aristocrat doing the same to make herself indestructible. It can be daunting to play against those decks since they have giant Tarmogoyfs while you only have 1/1s, but once you have a Spirit army going, or a huge Rally/Return, it's over.
Shambling Vent has been blown up by Field of Ruin quite a few times, but I'm OK with that since I didn't have anything else to do with my mana on those turns anyway. You could replace some copies of it with Horizon Canopy, but then you'd lose black sources.
Some tips:
- Between Doomed Traveler and Hunted Witness, you'll usually want to lead with Traveler. When it dies, the Spirit can poke in the air while your other creatures meatwall the ground.
- You can exile a card forever with Tidehollow Sculler if you have a sac outlet. Cast Sculler, hold priority, then sac it. The death trigger resolves first, returning nothing, then the ETB trigger resolves and exiles a card. If your opponent foolishly kills Sculler in response to its ETB, it has the same effect.
- When scrying for Viscera Seer, leave creatures on top if you know you have a Stitcher's Supplier trigger before you draw it. Conversely, if you know you're going to Rally/Return back a Supplier, don't leave noncreatures on top.
- You need at least two white sources for Return to the Ranks. 1-drops are free on Return turns since they can tap to convoke, and Traveler/Witness are better than free since you can sac them and use the tokens to bring their dead bodies back.
- Rally the Ancestors needs a sac outlet to get value out of your creatures, because they'll be exiled to Rally. Keep your sac outlets close by, don't sac them just for random scrys or life drain. Alternatively you can Rally after your opponent declares attackers, and block them.
- You can overpay for Rally the Ancestors to dodge Spell Queller. It's also a way of getting Liliana back, which Return can't do.
- Mana wise, a Plains + Swamp + B/W dual or 2 B/W duals and any third land will let you cast everything in your deck. Some plays are heavy on white (Rally/Return) while others are heavy on black (Liliana, life drainer + black 1-drop).
- Bring in Fragmentize against any deck you suspect could be playing Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void. The risk of losing to those cards is too great, and even if they don't draw them, you might be able to destroy something else like a Search for Azcanta or Eidolon of the Great Revel. Keep in Tidehollow Sculler against RIP decks too. I had Felidar Cub in the enchantment removal slot, but I think Fragmentize is better since it gets rid of Grafdigger's Cage too.
- Bring in Fatal Push against any deck you suspect could be playing Scavenging Ooze.
- When SBing, common cuts are Stitcher's Supplier, Tidehollow Sculler, and Blood Artist (against creature-light control/combo decks).
- Don't forget your triggers, this definitely cost me a few games. One creature dying may create multiple triggers (scry, make token/mill, life drain). It helps that when you sac to Seer, scry (i.e. the decision that requires most thought) always resolves last, so you can't tank on a scry and forget the other actions (and if you do, it's already too late). Postboard, Auriok Champion triggers multiple times if you Rally/Return a bunch of creatures back. If you're playing on MTGO, the triggers are put on the stack automatically for you, so you don't have to devote mental energy to this task.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Blood Artist
2 Blooming Marsh
4 Collected Company
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Eternal Witness
2 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
4 Rally the Ancestors
1 Return to the Ranks
4 Stitcher's Supplier
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Viscera Seer
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Windswept Heath
1 Worship
2 Zulaport Cutthroat
2 Evolutionary Leap
1 Lone Missionary
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Settle the Wreckage
3 Stony Silence
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thoughtseize
1 Worship