Playing a daily right now, apparently the control decks are becoming all hellbent against delver and mono red.. Timely Reinforcements, Treasure Cruise and Desperate Ravings main, Detritivore on the side. This is getting weird..
I still had game against that although I lost 2-0 ( grindy game 1 and mana screw + Suspended Detritivore G2), but still, all this hate... this is ridiculous.
EDIT : 0-2 drop, oh well. Lost to Pod R2. Siege Rhino wrecked me G1 and Mana screw G2, yay !!
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I played 5 more matches against different versions of Jeskai control. Lost all of them. The online control grinders are truly hunting delver and aggro decks to oblivion and I may have become the collateral victim :
Matchups :
Zoo is almost a joke
Infect is a joke
Affinity is favorable, but played only 2 matches.
I have game vs Living End but I have to be very careful and have threats early.
Hatebears are hunting the control decks and it shows in a few of the top lists. Having a bit of trouble with the multiple 4-thoughness creatures they boast.
UR Delver : I dont know right now, didnt play any in like 25 matches online. Very few in top decks in dailies right now.
Scapeshift : Won almost all my games against them.
Melira Pod : They have 2 Siege Rhinos Main now, they are a pain to deal with the current removal/counterspell suite. The rest is manageable.
In the current online metagame, the deck seems in a strange position. I dont know what to think of it.
I may need to make some adjustments to my decks to help me looks less like a delver tempo deck ( which they are tuned to fight) and go maybe on a more midrange-y style with a few more hard-to-deal-with threats.
I will start testing with huntmaster of the Fells and Geist of Saint-Traft to see if I could make something work. Who knows ?
And Last Question why is the jeskai control game so hard for you? And also dont you feel we lack an 18th Land ?:/
I feel if i have an opner with 2 lands im unbeatable if i dont its luck dependant (just feeling)
I also feel this way. Thinking of cutting my third Visions for an 18th Land, probably another fetch. Deprive is only good in very long games where you get all of your mana-producing lands in play, and I'd almost always rather have Faithless Looting in that case to draw into extra business/countermagic. On UWR Control (do we really have to call it Jeskai Control? Jesus), I'd like to see some of these difficult lists. Care to post one? I can't imagine the matchup being tough since I stomp them so often at Face/online.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Hi, I have put this list together in both paper and on Xmage for about 3-4 weeks now.
I especially played a lot of matches on Xmage, but I also played one paper event with this.
I feel like we have game against almost every deck. The tempo draw seems nigh-unbeatable.
However, in my experience the merfolk matchup is close to unwinnable.
One spreading seas can wreck our day, Aether vial doesn't care about any countermagic and islandwalk+mutavaults makes racing impossible.
So I side in all the burn and removal I have (4 bolt, 4 helix, 4 path, 2 pyroclasm total), and side out the remands and leaks leaving in spell pierce and spell snare for the spreading seas and possible vapor snag.
Even with a resolved pyroclasm taking out a lord + merrow reejery, 2 Path's and 1 helix they still easily killed me with 3 mutavaults+ 1 islandwalking lord.
And that is the closest I have been to actually having a chanse in this matchup.
My one 3-power beater is not at all pressuring them, Goyf can't play the defense role like he does against zoo due to islandwalk.
I am at a loss, any advice?
You're right to board out countermagic for removal. Bring in your Grudges and Revelries too; they blow up Vials to slow them down and Seas to keep you on colors. From there, between Helix/Bolt/Snap/Path/Cruise you shouldn't have a problem outgassing them.
Combat tricks are a beating against this deck -- Bolting a Lord and then favorably blocking their 'Folk totally blows them out of the water (lol). Casting a Declare Attackers-step Revelry on a Seas can have the same effect.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Some UR Delver lists are running three Deprieve main. I believe it may be because they need an unconditionnal counterspell for some of the answers that are targeted toward them.
I played an 18th land (Steam Vents) in the list. Havent played enough games but so far it seems a bit more consistent and I have redundancy against tectonic edge.
Some UR Delver lists are running three Deprieve main. I believe it may be because they need an unconditionnal counterspell for some of the answers that are targeted toward them.
I played an 18th land (Steam Vents) in the list. Havent played enough games but so far it seems a bit more consistent and I have redundancy against tectonic edge.
How relevant would you say that redundancy is? I'm terrified of drawing a hand with like, Steam Vents and Stomping Ground, or double Vents, or Vents and Fountain... IMO the point of adding an 18th land is increasing the amount of 2-land openers that give you perfect mana (i.e. a pair of Core Shocks).
We could probably support Deprive, but would we want it? Like I said, it's mostly relevant in longer games, since Leak takes care of everything else. I'm on a 2-2 Leak/Remand split right now, and those are better in the early-mid game (which is where we play most of the time anyway). If I wanted to add another counterspell, it probably would be one of those two.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Round 2 vs. 4c Gifts (2-0) - Got lucky here, not a superb matchup for us. They attack from a lot of different angles thanks to Lingering Souls, and it's awkward to bring in Forked Bolt/Pyroclasm but you often need to. In any case, I out-tempo'd him both games. Usually carry a Surgical Extraction in the board for this matchup (only in this meta; there's also a Dredgevine deck running around), but forgot to change my side from the Face event on Monday, so it was a second Hallow. Didn't come up this match though. Spell Pierce is great.
Round 3 vs. Counter-Cat (2-0) - Yeah, the mirror! He's new to the deck, so my plan was way more developed than his. I boarded out Spell Pierce and Delvers and brought in extra removal, Negate, Hallow. First time testing the mirror since KTK, but it was super miserable pre-Cruise: basically whoever got a Goyf first won. Now, the match is ultra grindy. He was wasting his Faithless Looting to fill the grave for Delve or to find fast answers to threats, so I just stalled out and beat him via card advantage as he held useless fetches.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I did cut 1 Serum Vision for a Breeding Pool and its AMAZING. My Hands are so much better and more smove. I Love this Deck and im so looking forward to Madrid. is there any ''special Tech'' is hould watch out for ? Or just the good old pure Tempo Play? I tried Mutagenic Growth but i really didnt liked it.. Also how would you create your Sideboard for such a Big Event although i start with at least 1 bye rather 2.
I tried to cover everything playable in the Primer; if you think of something else, please post it in this thread. I didn't include Mutagenic Growth because, like you, I didn't like in testing and can't even imagine a match I would want it in after having seen its applications here. About the Breeding Pool: you're not running Sacred Foundry? Very interesting. I've also cut the third Visions, but for a Wooded Foothills. I'll try BP instead and see how I feel about it. Would love to hear your thoughts on its inclusion though.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Well the thing is i see the points for Sacred Foundry (enabling your removal mostly) but U/G gives you acces to Creatures and Protection. So a hand with goyf,pool,vision/delver/pierce etc is easyli keepable whereas i feel a hand with goyf,foundry,bolt,vision isnt. So basically my reasoning was: BP is a Shock that can complement your other shocks easily and second allows you to even keep more 1-Landers.And it did work, at least in the limited testing i got in, perfect.
Yeah was very underwhelmed with Mutagenic Growth in my testing. Didnt got the chance to test deprive yet but i guess with the additional pool it becomes more appealing too but the problem is i really dont like cutting Leaks nor Remands. So thats kinda a though spot and i will see if a one-of is worth running.
For everyone whos new to the Deck and is sceptical about some choices let me just say one thing: The 1-of Looting is amazing! I can only advice everyone to use it, its basically your 5th Cruise Lategame as you always have more lands than you will need at some point. Looting rewards you to dont play them and represent countermagic/burn even more
@Ashton: Did you actually test Vapor Snags yet?
Still didn't test Snags. Don't know where I'd want them specifically, just wondering if the incremental advantage Path gives opponents in long games actually does anything to us. Right now (intelligent) players are starting to main Siege Rhino and Kitchen Finks, so I'll keep the Paths in my 60.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
There have been winning decks that have settled on three goyfs, historically speaking, im not going to look any up but you do see pro's make that decision from time to time depending on the list. There's no such thing as '4 or none' in magic, there's only the correct 75. Of course, I would run 7 goyfs in this deck if I were allowed to, but saying goyf has to be played one way or another is not why its wrong.
I don't understand people's gripe with goyf and treasure cruise. All you have to do in keep a land in the yard and treasure cruise as a sorcery keeps him bolt proof, plus you got to draw three cards so chances are high the graveyard will be restocking itself naturally.
There have been winning decks that have settled on three goyfs, historically speaking, im not going to look any up but you do see pro's make that decision from time to time depending on the list. There's no such thing as '4 or none' in magic, there's only the correct 75. Of course, I would run 7 goyfs in this deck if I were allowed to, but saying goyf has to be played one way or another is not why its wrong.
I don't understand people's gripe with goyf and treasure cruise. All you have to do in keep a land in the yard and treasure cruise as a sorcery keeps him bolt proof, plus you got to draw three cards so chances are high the graveyard will be restocking itself naturally.
While that's true, Modern decks either run him as a 4-of or as a 0-of (check the lists of most played Modern cards from the last few years). The reason for this is, if you want Tarmogoyf in your Modern deck, he's simply the best thing at doing what you need that slot to do.
As for the gribe with Goyf and TC: I don't actually think people believe this. Lots of players decried their supposed anti-synergy when TC was released, but anyone who plays this deck/has played it knows from their own experience that the two are fine together. Take a look at the lists on the last few pages: 4 Goyf, 3 Cruise or 4 Goyf, 4 Cruise is just standard for this deck.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
Just did a lenghty post and I accidentally deleted it, lol. Oh well, I will rewrite it later Fightning in the Overdrive! Event on mtgo
Ashton : Faithless Looting vs Izzet Charm, what do you think ?
EDIT : Lost 2nd round to poor sideboard choices vs Splinter Twin after winning R1 against a Restore Balance deck. I really should take sideboarding notes.
Just did a lenghty post and I accidentally deleted it, lol. Oh well, I will rewrite it later Fightning in the Overdrive! Event on mtgo
Ashton : Faithless Looting vs Izzet Charm, what do you think ?
EDIT : Lost 2nd round to poor sideboard choices vs Splinter Twin after winning R1 against a Restore Balance deck. I really should take sideboarding notes.
Definitely Looting. Easy to cast, can't be Snared, having the effect twice per game invaluable. How do you lose to Splinter Twin?
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
So I just recently found this thread after following a link on the zoo thread and am totally surprised at how powerful this deck is. I've been playtesting it a bit to see if its something I'd like to buy into and have been blowing out decks I've always feared. I do have some questions. The core creatures are 4x Delver, Nacatl, and Goyf. A lot of lists are running Snapcaster, but I've found he competes with goyf and Cruise. Has anyone tested a 1-2 of Geist or Scythe Tiger? Geist is more expensive, but Tiger, if cast after turn 2 or so is pretty much an early game Nimble Mongoose. I will be looking into both of them but don't have any yet.
Ashton : Simple, after winning a grindy G1 (30 minutes, resolved 4 Cruises, he resolved 2 Digs), he switched to a UR control build while I went with splinter twin specific hate. A resolved keranos wrecked me G2 while I had 2 Destructive Revelries in hand...
G3, I kept a reasonable hand with 1 hallowed fountain, 1 Island and two serum visions, but I never found a red or green source until it was already too late, a resolved Batterskull with counter backup.
Hey Guys i leave tomorrow for GP- Madrid and ofc will all-day grind Friday. Although i already got the Byes.
However through the last days of practise i wanted to share the list i ended up with:
(Deck)
So its pretty similiar to Ashtons List earlier but still with some changes:
- 1 Serum Vision + 1 Breeding Pool
The 18th Land is definiatly more valuable than the 3rd Vision. Im not sure if it HAS to be Breeding Pool but the Pool felt right and amazing since i put at into the deck and made a lot of Starters keepable.
-1 Faitless Looting +1 Izzet Charm
Its not clear but the +U in cost didnt made any diffrence to me as the looting was always ment to be a rather lategame card. For the Flashback i almost never used it before so i dont think i gonna mis sit, but izzet charm offers fleibility whereas looting would always do the same. I felt quite good with taht change.
-2 Remand + 1 Mana Leak +1 Ooze
Remand felt MEH most of the Times when not used against Treasure Cruise whereas Mana Leak is a premium counter most of the time we play it. With Izzet Charm also ofering another counter option i felt good with just adding 1 Leak for the Remand and adding another big Threat with use that is good vs GY strategy ,gains some live and threatens our opponent rather fast.
I would love to hear some feedback.
Another Thing im considering is repalcing a Land for a Canopy Horizon Opinions?
Only sideboardchange: - Isochron + 3rd hallow bc ist AMAZING and isochron is a liability on GP level imo.
Hopefully you will be able to read this before the GP :
1- I do not agree with the Breeding Pool, you dont need an extra Green source, a second Steam Vents is a better choice.
2- The Looting vs Charm is likely to cause debate between Ashton and me at the FNM this friday
The thing is that while Looting is indeed more focused and dodges spell snares, I find it very narrow in its use. If I am to use a singleton looting effect, I would prefer it to be flexible in its uses. To me Izzet charm fits in that category :
Pros:
- Instant Speed
- 3 relevant modes depending of the situation. (spell pierce, shock on a creature, looting 2)
- If I need to flashback it, Snapcaster will help.
Cons:
- Costs UR, not the best to protect early drops in the first turns
- Vulnerable to Spell Snare
3- Remand is in a weird spot, in some matchups where you are the agressor, it allows you to out-tempo your opponents. But when youre behind, it often delays the inevitable and it is not the best solution to regain tempo. Some times I love it and wins me games, other times it is more a 2mana cycling spell. I really dont know what to do on this situation... But one thing is certain, while I can understand the choice of Mana Leak I disagree for the choice of Scavenging Ooze, it is too much green mana intensive in its use to be that useful, especially considering you need a 2nd green source in play in order to get value out of it. In my testing so far, I found Huntmaster of the Fells to be promising, for 4 mana it gives you a bit of value on a spot-removal heavy environment and is a must answer threat. I have one maindeck so far.
4- A third Hallow is probably unnecessary since you also have some good counters for some of that burn and it costs you a SB slot that you could use for some other matchups. Unless you expect a huge red-heavy environment ( bolts, anger of the gods, etc. ) I'd stay with two.
Hey Guys i leave tomorrow for GP- Madrid and ofc will all-day grind Friday. Although i already got the Byes.
However through the last days of practise i wanted to share the list i ended up with:
(Deck)
So its pretty similiar to Ashtons List earlier but still with some changes:
- 1 Serum Vision + 1 Breeding Pool
The 18th Land is definiatly more valuable than the 3rd Vision. Im not sure if it HAS to be Breeding Pool but the Pool felt right and amazing since i put at into the deck and made a lot of Starters keepable.
-1 Faitless Looting +1 Izzet Charm
Its not clear but the +U in cost didnt made any diffrence to me as the looting was always ment to be a rather lategame card. For the Flashback i almost never used it before so i dont think i gonna mis sit, but izzet charm offers fleibility whereas looting would always do the same. I felt quite good with taht change.
-2 Remand + 1 Mana Leak +1 Ooze
Remand felt MEH most of the Times when not used against Treasure Cruise whereas Mana Leak is a premium counter most of the time we play it. With Izzet Charm also ofering another counter option i felt good with just adding 1 Leak for the Remand and adding another big Threat with use that is good vs GY strategy ,gains some live and threatens our opponent rather fast.
I would love to hear some feedback.
Another Thing im considering is repalcing a Land for a Canopy Horizon Opinions?
Only sideboardchange: - Isochron + 3rd hallow bc ist AMAZING and isochron is a liability on GP level imo.
Hopefully you will be able to read this before the GP :
1- I do not agree with the Breeding Pool, you dont need an extra Green source, a second Steam Vents is a better choice.
2- The Looting vs Charm is likely to cause debate between Ashton and me at the FNM this friday
The thing is that while Looting is indeed more focused and dodges spell snares, I find it very narrow in its use. If I am to use a singleton looting effect, I would prefer it to be flexible in its uses. To me Izzet charm fits in that category :
Pros:
- Instant Speed
- 3 relevant modes depending of the situation. (spell pierce, shock on a creature, looting 2)
- If I need to flashback it, Snapcaster will help.
Cons:
- Costs UR, not the best to protect early drops in the first turns
- Vulnerable to Spell Snare
3- Remand is in a weird spot, in some matchups where you are the agressor, it allows you to out-tempo your opponents. But when youre behind, it often delays the inevitable and it is not the best solution to regain tempo. Some times I love it and wins me games, other times it is more a 2mana cycling spell. I really dont know what to do on this situation... But one thing is certain, while I can understand the choice of Mana Leak I disagree for the choice of Scavenging Ooze, it is too much green mana intensive in its use to be that useful, especially considering you need a 2nd green source in play in order to get value out of it. In my testing so far, I found Huntmaster of the Fells to be promising, for 4 mana it gives you a bit of value on a spot-removal heavy environment and is a must answer threat. I have one maindeck so far.
4- A third Hallow is probably unnecessary since you also have some good counters for some of that burn and it costs you a SB slot that you could use for some other matchups. Unless you expect a huge red-heavy environment ( bolts, anger of the gods, etc. ) I'd stay with two.
I agree with all of this except on Charm. Gotta stand by the Faithless Looting. Flashback mode proves tremendously relevant in longer games, and why do you want Shock mode? For Delver? We already have a great matchup there (another reason you don't need 3x Hallow). Looting also lets you keep one-landers with threats, acting as an extra Visions in that case (with the added bonus of letting you Cruise a few turns faster into 3rd/4th lands). I'm also liking the 18th land, but I prefer a fetch to either Steam Vents or Breeding Pool. I'd run another Shock if I was expecting a lot of Death&Taxes, but I never am, and you probably shouldn't either.
On Scepter: a lot of decks just have no way to interact with it. Never mind the "GP level." Decks without Abrupt Decay will generally fold to a G2 Scepter and bring in dead artifact hate G3 while you side it out. It's also great in control matchups (like UR Delver). If I have time, I'll try to write up a section on beating that deck; if you play correctly, it's basically a bye. Hopefully it'll get to you before you take off for Madrid!
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
It is a different concept, but I wonder about some choices:
- The Chalices main are definitely targeted at the Delver matchup, but it can hinder you in other matchups unless you have a very good knowledge of how they play. X=2 is not good unless you are already ahead.
- Seeker of the Way is a good lifelinker against agressive decks, but it dies easily to Bolts ( of the Forked and Lightning variety ) so I am not convinced at all.
- The sword is a good idea as a mean to pump creatures and its effects are awesome vs Delver and other UR decks.
- I find it quite vulnerable to Blood Moon and Pyroclasm.
If this deck 3-1's or better consistently I may take a 2nd look. But otherwise, I think it is too focused on beating Delver, therefore being an "Hate Deck".
Any deck who puts lots of big creatures in play will be a problem if left unchecked. Thrun cannot be countered ( Except Venser, Shaper Savant who bounces him while on the stack.. ) so we have to live with it, but usually, it is a 1 or 2-of so it is not that big of a factor.
For the rest, you have to go the Tempo plan and kill them before their big threats comes online. So Remand and Vapor Snags become important.
Oh and please, get rid of those feed the clans and get 2 Hallow ! Its only a common too..
Ok, Hallow is better than Feed the clan. Also I am thinking in Refraction Trap. What do you guys prefer?
Hallow. It really boils down to what you want the card for, and we want this slot to beat Burn decks. Hallow counters two of their spells, while Trap counters one and gives you a Bolt for their face most of the time.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Matchups :
Zoo is almost a joke
Infect is a joke
Affinity is favorable, but played only 2 matches.
I have game vs Living End but I have to be very careful and have threats early.
Hatebears are hunting the control decks and it shows in a few of the top lists. Having a bit of trouble with the multiple 4-thoughness creatures they boast.
UR Delver : I dont know right now, didnt play any in like 25 matches online. Very few in top decks in dailies right now.
Scapeshift : Won almost all my games against them.
Melira Pod : They have 2 Siege Rhinos Main now, they are a pain to deal with the current removal/counterspell suite. The rest is manageable.
In the current online metagame, the deck seems in a strange position. I dont know what to think of it.
I may need to make some adjustments to my decks to help me looks less like a delver tempo deck ( which they are tuned to fight) and go maybe on a more midrange-y style with a few more hard-to-deal-with threats.
I will start testing with huntmaster of the Fells and Geist of Saint-Traft to see if I could make something work. Who knows ?
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Combat tricks are a beating against this deck -- Bolting a Lord and then favorably blocking their 'Folk totally blows them out of the water (lol). Casting a Declare Attackers-step Revelry on a Seas can have the same effect.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I played an 18th land (Steam Vents) in the list. Havent played enough games but so far it seems a bit more consistent and I have redundancy against tectonic edge.
We could probably support Deprive, but would we want it? Like I said, it's mostly relevant in longer games, since Leak takes care of everything else. I'm on a 2-2 Leak/Remand split right now, and those are better in the early-mid game (which is where we play most of the time anyway). If I wanted to add another counterspell, it probably would be one of those two.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Round 1 vs. UW Tempo (2-0) - I Tempo better.
Round 2 vs. 4c Gifts (2-0) - Got lucky here, not a superb matchup for us. They attack from a lot of different angles thanks to Lingering Souls, and it's awkward to bring in Forked Bolt/Pyroclasm but you often need to. In any case, I out-tempo'd him both games. Usually carry a Surgical Extraction in the board for this matchup (only in this meta; there's also a Dredgevine deck running around), but forgot to change my side from the Face event on Monday, so it was a second Hallow. Didn't come up this match though. Spell Pierce is great.
Round 3 vs. Counter-Cat (2-0) - Yeah, the mirror! He's new to the deck, so my plan was way more developed than his. I boarded out Spell Pierce and Delvers and brought in extra removal, Negate, Hallow. First time testing the mirror since KTK, but it was super miserable pre-Cruise: basically whoever got a Goyf first won. Now, the match is ultra grindy. He was wasting his Faithless Looting to fill the grave for Delve or to find fast answers to threats, so I just stalled out and beat him via card advantage as he held useless fetches.
A shame GP NJ isn't Modern...
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
CREATURES
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Remand
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
1 Pillar of Flame
3 Serum Visions
3 Treasure Cruise
2 Thought Scour
1 Faithless Looting
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Negate
2 Boros Charm
2 Spellskite
1 Pyroclasm
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Spell Pierce
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Wear//Tear
1 Hallow
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
I don't understand people's gripe with goyf and treasure cruise. All you have to do in keep a land in the yard and treasure cruise as a sorcery keeps him bolt proof, plus you got to draw three cards so chances are high the graveyard will be restocking itself naturally.
As for the gribe with Goyf and TC: I don't actually think people believe this. Lots of players decried their supposed anti-synergy when TC was released, but anyone who plays this deck/has played it knows from their own experience that the two are fine together. Take a look at the lists on the last few pages: 4 Goyf, 3 Cruise or 4 Goyf, 4 Cruise is just standard for this deck.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Actually though. I've tced away my whole graveyard before, just to have goyf not change at all
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Ashton : Faithless Looting vs Izzet Charm, what do you think ?
EDIT : Lost 2nd round to poor sideboard choices vs Splinter Twin after winning R1 against a Restore Balance deck. I really should take sideboarding notes.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
G3, I kept a reasonable hand with 1 hallowed fountain, 1 Island and two serum visions, but I never found a red or green source until it was already too late, a resolved Batterskull with counter backup.
Hopefully you will be able to read this before the GP :
1- I do not agree with the Breeding Pool, you dont need an extra Green source, a second Steam Vents is a better choice.
2- The Looting vs Charm is likely to cause debate between Ashton and me at the FNM this friday
The thing is that while Looting is indeed more focused and dodges spell snares, I find it very narrow in its use. If I am to use a singleton looting effect, I would prefer it to be flexible in its uses. To me Izzet charm fits in that category :
Pros:
- Instant Speed
- 3 relevant modes depending of the situation. (spell pierce, shock on a creature, looting 2)
- If I need to flashback it, Snapcaster will help.
Cons:
- Costs UR, not the best to protect early drops in the first turns
- Vulnerable to Spell Snare
3- Remand is in a weird spot, in some matchups where you are the agressor, it allows you to out-tempo your opponents. But when youre behind, it often delays the inevitable and it is not the best solution to regain tempo. Some times I love it and wins me games, other times it is more a 2mana cycling spell. I really dont know what to do on this situation... But one thing is certain, while I can understand the choice of Mana Leak I disagree for the choice of Scavenging Ooze, it is too much green mana intensive in its use to be that useful, especially considering you need a 2nd green source in play in order to get value out of it. In my testing so far, I found Huntmaster of the Fells to be promising, for 4 mana it gives you a bit of value on a spot-removal heavy environment and is a must answer threat. I have one maindeck so far.
4- A third Hallow is probably unnecessary since you also have some good counters for some of that burn and it costs you a SB slot that you could use for some other matchups. Unless you expect a huge red-heavy environment ( bolts, anger of the gods, etc. ) I'd stay with two.
On Scepter: a lot of decks just have no way to interact with it. Never mind the "GP level." Decks without Abrupt Decay will generally fold to a G2 Scepter and bring in dead artifact hate G3 while you side it out. It's also great in control matchups (like UR Delver). If I have time, I'll try to write up a section on beating that deck; if you play correctly, it's basically a bye. Hopefully it'll get to you before you take off for Madrid!
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Seeker of the Way
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Remand
4 Tribal Flames
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lightning Helix
3 Treasure Cruise
2 Mana Leak
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Forked Bolt
2 Path to Exile
2 Slaughter Games
2 Stony Silence
- The Chalices main are definitely targeted at the Delver matchup, but it can hinder you in other matchups unless you have a very good knowledge of how they play. X=2 is not good unless you are already ahead.
- Seeker of the Way is a good lifelinker against agressive decks, but it dies easily to Bolts ( of the Forked and Lightning variety ) so I am not convinced at all.
- The sword is a good idea as a mean to pump creatures and its effects are awesome vs Delver and other UR decks.
- I find it quite vulnerable to Blood Moon and Pyroclasm.
If this deck 3-1's or better consistently I may take a 2nd look. But otherwise, I think it is too focused on beating Delver, therefore being an "Hate Deck".
For the rest, you have to go the Tempo plan and kill them before their big threats comes online. So Remand and Vapor Snags become important.
Oh and please, get rid of those feed the clans and get 2 Hallow ! Its only a common too..
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy