Too far for me. Medium-sized Modern event at Face2Face today. Lost in Top8 to Burn.
Round 1 vs. UWR Control (1-2) G1 manascrew, he wins with a fast Geist. G2 I stomp him, he can't keep up with my cards. G3 same thing, I end up with a Goyf and a Cat on the field, about 5 cards in hand, all my lands. He's got a bunch of lands (no Colonnade) and goes to topdeck mode. I Serum, Treasure Cruise, attack him down to 2, and pass the turn. He Bolts me at EOT and I go to 3, and then he topdecks Bolt for the win. I reveal my own top card: Lightning Bolt. Better luck next time!
Round 2 vs. Kiki-Pod (2-0) G1 I bolt his dork and he gets the T3 Pod. I keep pressuring him with Nacatl and Remanding/Pathing his guys for the win. G2 I have Ancient Grudge for his Birthing Pod and resolve 4 Path to Exile via Snapcaster Mage/Treasure Cruise; he can't keep up.
Round 3 vs. Blue Zoo (2-0) I just out-value him both games. He's on the Goyf-less Geist plan so my creatures are cheaper and better, plus I resolve more Helixes and draw into gas with Cruise. I stomp him both games and Hallow a Lightning Bolt for euphoria. The highlight: turn 3 Pyroclasm with Wild Nacatl in play; Cat survives and Pyro eats my opponent's board of double Hierarch and Pridemage.
Round 4 vs. All-In Red (2-0) G1 I'm not sure what he's on; beautiful, foil, German, Onslaught Wooded Foothills and Alpha Mountains grow my respect for the guy, though. He casts a T2 double Burning-Tree Emissary and Priest of Urabrask, but my Lightning Helix keeps his army in check. I end up crashing in with Goyfs for lethal while he looks for a third land. G2 he gets an early Relic of Progenitus, but I dump so many cards in the grave anyway that my Goyfs are 2/3 most of the time. He pops Relic to make my attacking Goyf 0/2 and double blocks it with two Burning-Trees; I Helix one for the blowout and take the game away from there. Pyroclasm wipes his board after he semi-recovers. Turns out he wasn't on MD Blood Moon, which is a mistake IMO; he did bring them in G2, just didn't see any (I had Revelry anyway).
Round 5 vs. ??? (0-0) We draw into Top 8.
Top 8 Round 1 vs. UWR Burn (1-2) G1 he's way too fast for me and Searing Blazes two guys. G2 I Negate his Cruise and keep him off resolving burn spells long enough to make it. I end up Bolting an Eidolon at his end step, going to 2, and hitting for lethal with a huge Tarmogoyf. G3 I mulligan to 4 off manaless hands and hold off his guys with Path to Exile, but he ends up burning me down from 20 before a Delver can finish him off. Didn't resolve a single Helix, Skite, or Hallow games 1 or 3, which cinched it for him I think. Very important to draw some hate in this matchup.
Travel included, I broke even $-wise. Attributing my game losses to bad draws here, I wouldn't change the 75 other than maybe another Hallow in such a Bolt-heavy meta. Very happy with my list. Here's what I played:
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Oh I'm sorry Ashton, I must have misunderstood about the result of that match against that brew. I would love to come to the Face to Face shop more often on weekends (especially for the modern events), but it requires quite a bit of logistics with the commute schedule to come all the way to Verdun (and convincing my GF as well). Its easier when it comes to GP and PTQ's.
1- Swiftspear's haste and prowess makes it a good beater in a tempo deck like this. However, since everyone is packing hate for the delver matchup, you have to be more careful to not get blown out by opposing pyroclasm effects or even forked bolt.
2- Nacatl's 3 Toughness dodges those effects (other than Anger of the gods of course) at the cost of being 4 colors ( and the risk of shocking yourself with the lands more often).
Add also as factor that white gives you access to useful spells and hate cards for many matchups.
( On a related note, your own swiftspear can survive your own pyroclasms thanks to prowess, maybe thats something that we can take advantage of ? )
Fun fact : Hallow does wonders against Pyroclasm effects, netting you 2-3 life per creature on the board. Drawback : no creature dies.
( On a related note, your own swiftspear can survive your own pyroclasms thanks to prowess, maybe thats something that we can take advantage of ? )
Fun fact : Hallow does wonders against Pyroclasm effects, netting you 2-3 life per creature on the board. Drawback : no creature dies.
Well, you obviously don't cast Hallow on your own Pyroclasm since you're two-for-one-ing yourself. But casting it on an opponent's Anger of the Gods seems good. And yeah, Pyroclasm is bonkers in our sideboard from my testing. Card's so good right now.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
( On a related note, your own swiftspear can survive your own pyroclasms thanks to prowess, maybe thats something that we can take advantage of ? )
Fun fact : Hallow does wonders against Pyroclasm effects, netting you 2-3 life per creature on the board. Drawback : no creature dies.
Well, you obviously don't cast Hallow on your own Pyroclasm since you're two-for-one-ing yourself. But casting it on an opponent's Anger of the Gods seems good. And yeah, Pyroclasm is bonkers in our sideboard from my testing. Card's so good right now.
How about this one ? Opponent casts Eidolon of the Great Revel, you Hallow it in response. What happens next is that every spell you will cast afterwards in that turn that costs 3 or less (ie. a bolt or an helix to kill that Eidolon) will net you 2 life instead of two damage We agree that this situation is relatively unlikely to happen, but it is good to know anyway Oh and it works on hasty creatures or creatures that deal damage when they enter the battelfield.
To prove my point :
400.7b Prevention effects that apply to damage from a permanent spell on the stack continue to apply to damage from the permanent that spell becomes.
SOFTW4RE may be on to something with the Vapor Snags. I'm considering a split with Path to Exile as BGx and Pod continue their steep decline, but Path still has it in grindier matchups. Anyone still on Feed the Clan, drop it; Hallow is way better right now. Kudos to David on that Eidolon interaction, very sweet.
Got to grind (paper!) against a UR Delver player today on a typical aggressive list (no Snaps, Cruise over Dig). Highly favorable for us. We swing late-games way better than they do, and White gives us all kinds of tools to win with (Helix, Hallow, etc.). That they can't easily deal with Goyf or even Wild Nacatl is just icing on the cake. One game he Cruised 3 times to my one and resolved two Blood Moons, and I still grinded him to 0 cards (to my seven) and crashed in with a 6/7 Goyf three times for the win. I board out Delvers and Spell Pierce on the draw here and play a control game. Pyroclasm's our best card. I'll write up a section on UR Delver soon enough for the Primer since the deck still seems really popular everywhere.
I'll also implore everyone to run a MD Faithless Looting. In any remotely controlling matchup, you just cast it when you have two dead cards to cycle (fetches, expired Spell Pierce, etc.). I can't stress enough how important it is to WAIT with this card until you HAVE TWO DEAD CARDS TO CYCLE. Don't expect to draw into one. For those familiar with Canadian Thresh, treat Looting like Brainstorm. Exactly like Brainstorm. The only time I wouldn't wait to cast it is turn 2 after keeping a one-lander after having cast turn 1 Serum Visionsif I still can't find a second mana source. It's also better to pay an extra mana for Cruise and to leave Looting in your graveyard when that comes up (which it does), even if it means waiting an extra turn (unless you're tremendously behind). The card generates so much value late-game it's not even funny.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
It's not. Mana deprived super series this weekend is standard. Vancouver gp in february is modern, but that's still infinite time anda few potential bannings away.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
It's not. Mana deprived super series this weekend is standard. Vancouver gp in february is modern, but that's still infinite time anda few potential bannings away.
Oops, that's what I meant. Vancouver, then!
On bannings: this deck was fine before Treasure Cruise, we'll be fine without it. If the card gets banned we still have Mandrills. It just becomes a lot harder to play without Treasure Cruise (as do most Delver decks). All those small decisions you make at the beginning of the game actually decide the outcome. With TC in the deck, you don't have to think about whether to Spell Snare or Spell Pierce a turn 2 noncreature spell, since you know you can just draw 3 in a turn or two and find Snapcaster Mage and more counterspells. While I miss this complexity (once inherent to the archetype), it's still fun to steamroll everyone with cards I love.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Round 1 vs. GW Humans (2-0) His Cavern of Souls does nothing both games, since I mostly draw removal instead of counterspells. He's Soulbonding Lifelink and Double Strike all day, and I'm messing up his combat steps by Bolting/Pathing one of the linked creatures. G2 I slam a 1/2 Tarmogoyf that ends up holding up defense at 4/5 as a pair of Cats go to work on his life total. At one point he gets me down to 4, but Helix and Cruise won't let me lose.
Round 2 vs. Affinity (2-0) Tremendously cocky player. He'd sat next to me the previous round so he knew I was on Cats and Islands. He kept dropping bombs like "give me your best shot!" or "oooh, a 3/3!", which I smugly shrugged off. I was also very confident here, since I know from my testing how easy this matchup is. G1 he opens with the dream, dropping Cranial Plating and Signal Pest. I start with a humble Wild Nacatl, and he Ensouls the Pest to come in for 5. I have Path to Exile ready, plus a Helix in case he draws another threat. He does, and I burn it. Cat closes shop as he topdecks Springleaf Drums. G2 he's a little shaken up, especially seeing me side in 10 cards. I bolt his Skirge, and turn 2 cast Serum Visions and Nacatl. Eventually he has double Ravager and puts a Plating on each one to come in for 12. I Path one, he sacs it to the other, and I flash in Snapcaster Mage to block. 5/6 Tarmogoyf threatens close to lethal next turn, and he picks up his cards when I show him Lightning Helix and Destructive Revelry.
Round 3 vs. Monogreen Devotion (2-0) This guy stomped my friend playing Jund in the previous round, so I was happy to give him a whupping. Remand on Garruk, Spell Pierce on Genesis Wave, Forked Bolt on the dorks. Everything went my way, and why wouldn't it? My spells do much more for far less.
Round 4 vs. RBG Burn (2-1) This guy Mauro has been successfully piloting Burn at Face to Face since before I even started playing there, and he chose to stick to his guns and not splash for Cruise. No Boros Charm either, but he had Black for Bump and splashed Green for sideboard Destructive Revelry (which, obviously, I didn't see). I had dropped Engineered Explosives from my sideboard for a second Hallow prior to the event since my meta is so full of Burn and Delver, and was pretty happy for it. Game 1 I got stuck on a Hallowed Fountain and only even drew into a second land once I'd hit 5 life. I had resolved a Serum Visions and a Thought Scour and even fetched/milled away nonlands revealed by Goblin Guide, but I just couldn't find a mana source. Game 2 he got stuck on a single land for a couple turns; I Helixed his Goblin Guide and eventually tore him apart with a Cat. He gets to 3 lands and plays around my Lightning Helix by holding up Skullcrack mana, but I clock him the whole time. I get him down to 6 life and he Bolts my Cat in his Main Phase. Me at 7 life, I Helix him at the End Step; he responds by tapping out for Skullcrack, bringing me to 4, and I show him a second Helix for the scoop. Game 3 I open an incredible hand of Hallow, Helix, Negate, Pierce, Cat, and two fetches, and take things very slowly, letting all my lands come into play tapped (I want to Pierce/Hallow a Searing Blaze). I get Cat down turn 3 and start clocking. Serum Visions scrys me a Tarmogoyf and a Spellskite, which eats a Rift Bolt aimed at Nacatl and then dies to a Goblin Guide attack. He Molten Rains my red source, but I can fetch another one so I save my Negate for higher-impact cards. Lightning Helix hits his Guide and I get to Spell Pierce a second Molten Rain. I drop the Goyf to increase pressure, and a Hallow on his Lightning Bolt lets me seal up the game at a cool 12 life.
Overall, I'm not at all surprised with the deck's performance. I wouldn't play anything else in this meta. We have favorable matchups against all the good decks. Keep in mind I was consistently going 3-1 without Treasure Cruise. That card brings us way over the top.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Concerning Affinity players, I faced a few on MTGO and I had to report two of them for inappropriate behavior during the match, what's up with that ?
In case any are reading the thread now and want to report us, I won't go into much detail about this. Let's just say there's a reason they play Affinity Just kidding, but it's interesting you've also found a correlation. The resident Affinity player at Face, another guy, even tried to steal some booster packs from Radouf (of the UB Tezzeret thread) and give me back his own damaged Steel Overseer at the end of a night I'd lent him a fourth. I used to play Affinity myself, in Standard (yes, with Skullclamp), until they banned the hell out of it. I couldn't have been such an annoying opponent nine years ago, but then again, we didn't have to play Springleaf Drum.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
While I know many affinity players irl, I think it has to do moreso about why they started playing affinity.
If they bought into affinity looking for a quick, synergistic aggro deck with intricate and delicate lines of play that can steal wins out of nowhere, they're usually quite fun to play against.
If they bought affinity for a budget deck that puts up results and offers 'free win' potential, they're salty if they lose.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
IH guys. I went 2-2 tonight, at least I finished well with 6 points and have won two boosters
I won against MonoWhite life-gain, and Affinity, not comment anything because they are very favorable pairings. In both matches I take out countermagic (remand, and some snares/pierces) for more removal (revelry, bolt, path)
I lost (1-2) against a weird WUBG midrange, with a lot of removal (path to exile, abrubt decay, snapcaster mage, liliana). I think the pairing is matched, similar to Junk-Rock, and who wins is the player who resolves more Snapcaster / cruise.
The other round I lost was against Infect(1-2), I think this is a good pairing, I lost because of mulligan a lot and very bad luck, we run very good spells against this deck: path to exile, vapor snag, and destructive revelry for inkmoth and the enchantment that give +3/+3 to creatures each time they become a target.
I have not changed anything, play the same 75. But now I play Path maindeck and Pierce SB.
Did the Midrange deck boast a set of Siege Rhino? That deck is super hard to beat, I got a chance to grind against it for a couple hours last week. You're right about Infect, very favorable. Bad draws do happen! Have you totally ditched the Vapor Snags?
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I had some spare time tonight so lets do a MTGO meta check ( November 4th )
Source : Daily events decklists on the mothership
Period covered : (October 31st to November 4th)
4-0 decks :
Mono Red : 4
Melira Pod : 3
Hate Bears : 2
Tron : 2
Scapeshift : 2
UR Delver : 2
Blue Moon : 1
Living End : 1
Jeskai Control : 1
Affinity : 1
Skred Red : 1
Boggles : 1
Splinter Twin : 1
Prison Enchantments (Zur the Enchanter) : 1
Amulet Combo : 1
Merfolk : 1
Jund w/ Cruise : 1
Analysis :
UR Delver are out in numbers and it shows. The amount of 3-1 may not be as surprising considering the hate, some deck archetypes preying on them and the mirror match. Still Tier 1.
However, we can see a diversity of decks that can do 4-0 and do not run Treasure Cruise, so its Bannable status is still debatable.
In the 3-1 department, there is an incredible variety of decks in all archetypes, which is a good thing, kudos to Matthias Hunt who 3-1 ed with a Battle of Wits deck, it takes guts to run this
If I were to run the countercat deck in a competitive field, my testing gauntlet would be :
UR Delver
Scapeshift
Melira Pod
Mono Red
Hate Bears
Abzan Midrange/GB Rock
Boggles
Analysis :
UR Delver are out in numbers and it shows. The amount of 3-1 may not be as surprising considering the hate, some deck archetypes preying on them and the mirror match. Still Tier 1.
However, we can see a diversity of decks that can do 4-0 and do not run Treasure Cruise, so its Bannable status is still debatable.
In the 3-1 department, there is an incredible variety of decks in all archetypes, which is a good thing, kudos to Matthias Hunt who 3-1 ed with a Battle of Wits deck, it takes guts to run this
If I were to run the countercat deck in a competitive field, my testing gauntlet would be :
UR Delver
Scapeshift
Melira Pod
Mono Red
Hate Bears
Abzan Midrange/GB Rock
Boggles
What do you think ?
I think if you're right, we're in luck. The only tough matchup there are Hatebears and Bogles, the latter of which can be diffused easily if we draw the hate. Hatebears also gets trounced by Pyroclasm; I'm pretty set on running a second one in the side for the next serious event I go to.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
@Battle of Wits: It wasn't Mattias Hunt, who played this Battle of Wits deck, it was a streamer called MattiasNL on twitch. He is an eternal player from the Netherlands. I just wanted to correct this, since he put a lot of energy/time into this deck.
@Topic, the tests, which I have made with this deck, showed me, that it is one of the best Cruise deck. It is stronger than UR Delver, since we have the better threads and removal and have the better SB-cards (like Pyroclasm, which I love atm in this Meta). The only problem is Blood Moon from their SB, but I haven't seen it in a while. Because I don't own Goyfs, I can't play this deck in Milano, but I will start playing it in paper too, once I get those Goyfs (and they are soooo expensive )
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I must apologize then for attributing the deck to the wrong guy. I knew the name was familliar, but associated it to the wrong person. Sorry !
@Topic, I have gotten lots of fun playing that archetype and am also successful with it despite the fact that my version is slightly different than Ashton's. ( I dont run Thought Scour and run 3 cruises, maybe going to 4 now, but adopted the Hallow and Faithless Looting Tech)
For the goyfs, I dont know about current price trends in Europe, but over here its price is going down slightly right now ( 210$ US Near Mint on SCG compared to 250$ a few weeks ago ). But that trend may change depending on the top decks at Grand Prix Madrid in two weeks. If its price continue to drop, I believe it will soon be a good time to invest in those by the end of the year. ( Also add the ban list announcement in January as a factor )
Dude, just borrow the Goyfs. If I had a flight to Milan I'd bring you a set myself. Would love to see this deck make it at a big event, and it's perfectly positioned right now.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Having played the zoo matchup about 5 times on MTGO so far. I can talk a bit about the matchup from my Point of view. Ashton will likely express his point of View as well
Zoo : Game 1 can be a bit of a coin flip depending of opening hands and who goes first, but after sideboard it is pretty much to our advantage. Just be careful to any blood moons they may side in.
Scapeshift : The name of the game is to stick threats early and keep the counters to prevent the removal and delay the combo kill. Playing first helps.
Chalice : Chalice is annoying when they maindeck it, but only a few archetypes run it main. Once you know which deck run it MD, teach yourself how to recognize it based on its early plays. Then you can play around the turn 2 chalice acocordingly. Post sideboard, you have the counters and the Destructive Revelry to deal with it. Reducing slightly the amount of 1 cost spells can help too.
Oh and dont forget that if there is an active chalice at 1 ( or 2) , you can still cast the spells in order to feed the Treasure Cruises if needed.
Hey Ashton im goin to Madrid next week and i heavily consider running Counter-Cat would you mind to share your latest list?
Also i got some questions:
how is your zoo matchup?
How you deal with scapeshift?
How to deal with unexpected Chalices on 1?
PM'd my list. Shout out Ashton Kutcher during your inevitable Deck Tech!
Zoo: Easy. Snap/Path/Bolt/Helix destroys them. Revelry for Blood Moon.
Scapeshift: A bye. We're 2-3 turns faster than them. Play around Firespout and Pierce their Commands. Expect Baloth G2.
Chalice: Who even plays this? Artifact hate G2. Tarmogoyf should mop them up anyway.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Playing a daily right now, apparently the control decks are becoming all hellbent against delver and mono red.. Timely Reinforcements, Treasure Cruise and Desperate Ravings main, Detritivore on the side. This is getting weird..
I still had game against that although I lost 2-0 ( grindy game 1 and mana screw + Suspended Detritivore G2), but still, all this hate... this is ridiculous.
EDIT : 0-2 drop, oh well. Lost to Pod R2. Siege Rhino wrecked me G1 and Mana screw G2, yay !!
Round 1 vs. UWR Control (1-2) G1 manascrew, he wins with a fast Geist. G2 I stomp him, he can't keep up with my cards. G3 same thing, I end up with a Goyf and a Cat on the field, about 5 cards in hand, all my lands. He's got a bunch of lands (no Colonnade) and goes to topdeck mode. I Serum, Treasure Cruise, attack him down to 2, and pass the turn. He Bolts me at EOT and I go to 3, and then he topdecks Bolt for the win. I reveal my own top card: Lightning Bolt. Better luck next time!
Round 2 vs. Kiki-Pod (2-0) G1 I bolt his dork and he gets the T3 Pod. I keep pressuring him with Nacatl and Remanding/Pathing his guys for the win. G2 I have Ancient Grudge for his Birthing Pod and resolve 4 Path to Exile via Snapcaster Mage/Treasure Cruise; he can't keep up.
Round 3 vs. Blue Zoo (2-0) I just out-value him both games. He's on the Goyf-less Geist plan so my creatures are cheaper and better, plus I resolve more Helixes and draw into gas with Cruise. I stomp him both games and Hallow a Lightning Bolt for euphoria. The highlight: turn 3 Pyroclasm with Wild Nacatl in play; Cat survives and Pyro eats my opponent's board of double Hierarch and Pridemage.
Round 4 vs. All-In Red (2-0) G1 I'm not sure what he's on; beautiful, foil, German, Onslaught Wooded Foothills and Alpha Mountains grow my respect for the guy, though. He casts a T2 double Burning-Tree Emissary and Priest of Urabrask, but my Lightning Helix keeps his army in check. I end up crashing in with Goyfs for lethal while he looks for a third land. G2 he gets an early Relic of Progenitus, but I dump so many cards in the grave anyway that my Goyfs are 2/3 most of the time. He pops Relic to make my attacking Goyf 0/2 and double blocks it with two Burning-Trees; I Helix one for the blowout and take the game away from there. Pyroclasm wipes his board after he semi-recovers. Turns out he wasn't on MD Blood Moon, which is a mistake IMO; he did bring them in G2, just didn't see any (I had Revelry anyway).
Round 5 vs. ??? (0-0) We draw into Top 8.
Top 8 Round 1 vs. UWR Burn (1-2) G1 he's way too fast for me and Searing Blazes two guys. G2 I Negate his Cruise and keep him off resolving burn spells long enough to make it. I end up Bolting an Eidolon at his end step, going to 2, and hitting for lethal with a huge Tarmogoyf. G3 I mulligan to 4 off manaless hands and hold off his guys with Path to Exile, but he ends up burning me down from 20 before a Delver can finish him off. Didn't resolve a single Helix, Skite, or Hallow games 1 or 3, which cinched it for him I think. Very important to draw some hate in this matchup.
Travel included, I broke even $-wise. Attributing my game losses to bad draws here, I wouldn't change the 75 other than maybe another Hallow in such a Bolt-heavy meta. Very happy with my list. Here's what I played:
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
3 Arid Mesa
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Forest
1 Island
Creature (15)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Thought Scour
2 Remand
2 Mana Leak
3 Lightning Helix
Sorcery (8)
3 Serum Visions
1 Faithless Looting
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Spellskite
2 Boros Charm
2 Negate
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hallow
1 Spell Pierce
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Engineered Explosives
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
1- Swiftspear's haste and prowess makes it a good beater in a tempo deck like this. However, since everyone is packing hate for the delver matchup, you have to be more careful to not get blown out by opposing pyroclasm effects or even forked bolt.
2- Nacatl's 3 Toughness dodges those effects (other than Anger of the gods of course) at the cost of being 4 colors ( and the risk of shocking yourself with the lands more often).
Add also as factor that white gives you access to useful spells and hate cards for many matchups.
( On a related note, your own swiftspear can survive your own pyroclasms thanks to prowess, maybe thats something that we can take advantage of ? )
Fun fact : Hallow does wonders against Pyroclasm effects, netting you 2-3 life per creature on the board. Drawback : no creature dies.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
How about this one ? Opponent casts Eidolon of the Great Revel, you Hallow it in response. What happens next is that every spell you will cast afterwards in that turn that costs 3 or less (ie. a bolt or an helix to kill that Eidolon) will net you 2 life instead of two damage We agree that this situation is relatively unlikely to happen, but it is good to know anyway Oh and it works on hasty creatures or creatures that deal damage when they enter the battelfield.
To prove my point :
400.7b Prevention effects that apply to damage from a permanent spell on the stack continue to apply to damage from the permanent that spell becomes.
Conclusion : Hallow is stone cold nuts
EDIT : Works with Vexing Devil too
Got to grind (paper!) against a UR Delver player today on a typical aggressive list (no Snaps, Cruise over Dig). Highly favorable for us. We swing late-games way better than they do, and White gives us all kinds of tools to win with (Helix, Hallow, etc.). That they can't easily deal with Goyf or even Wild Nacatl is just icing on the cake. One game he Cruised 3 times to my one and resolved two Blood Moons, and I still grinded him to 0 cards (to my seven) and crashed in with a 6/7 Goyf three times for the win. I board out Delvers and Spell Pierce on the draw here and play a control game. Pyroclasm's our best card. I'll write up a section on UR Delver soon enough for the Primer since the deck still seems really popular everywhere.
I'll also implore everyone to run a MD Faithless Looting. In any remotely controlling matchup, you just cast it when you have two dead cards to cycle (fetches, expired Spell Pierce, etc.). I can't stress enough how important it is to WAIT with this card until you HAVE TWO DEAD CARDS TO CYCLE. Don't expect to draw into one. For those familiar with Canadian Thresh, treat Looting like Brainstorm. Exactly like Brainstorm. The only time I wouldn't wait to cast it is turn 2 after keeping a one-lander after having cast turn 1 Serum Visions if I still can't find a second mana source. It's also better to pay an extra mana for Cruise and to leave Looting in your graveyard when that comes up (which it does), even if it means waiting an extra turn (unless you're tremendously behind). The card generates so much value late-game it's not even funny.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
On bannings: this deck was fine before Treasure Cruise, we'll be fine without it. If the card gets banned we still have Mandrills. It just becomes a lot harder to play without Treasure Cruise (as do most Delver decks). All those small decisions you make at the beginning of the game actually decide the outcome. With TC in the deck, you don't have to think about whether to Spell Snare or Spell Pierce a turn 2 noncreature spell, since you know you can just draw 3 in a turn or two and find Snapcaster Mage and more counterspells. While I miss this complexity (once inherent to the archetype), it's still fun to steamroll everyone with cards I love.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Round 1 vs. GW Humans (2-0) His Cavern of Souls does nothing both games, since I mostly draw removal instead of counterspells. He's Soulbonding Lifelink and Double Strike all day, and I'm messing up his combat steps by Bolting/Pathing one of the linked creatures. G2 I slam a 1/2 Tarmogoyf that ends up holding up defense at 4/5 as a pair of Cats go to work on his life total. At one point he gets me down to 4, but Helix and Cruise won't let me lose.
Round 2 vs. Affinity (2-0) Tremendously cocky player. He'd sat next to me the previous round so he knew I was on Cats and Islands. He kept dropping bombs like "give me your best shot!" or "oooh, a 3/3!", which I smugly shrugged off. I was also very confident here, since I know from my testing how easy this matchup is. G1 he opens with the dream, dropping Cranial Plating and Signal Pest. I start with a humble Wild Nacatl, and he Ensouls the Pest to come in for 5. I have Path to Exile ready, plus a Helix in case he draws another threat. He does, and I burn it. Cat closes shop as he topdecks Springleaf Drums. G2 he's a little shaken up, especially seeing me side in 10 cards. I bolt his Skirge, and turn 2 cast Serum Visions and Nacatl. Eventually he has double Ravager and puts a Plating on each one to come in for 12. I Path one, he sacs it to the other, and I flash in Snapcaster Mage to block. 5/6 Tarmogoyf threatens close to lethal next turn, and he picks up his cards when I show him Lightning Helix and Destructive Revelry.
Round 3 vs. Monogreen Devotion (2-0) This guy stomped my friend playing Jund in the previous round, so I was happy to give him a whupping. Remand on Garruk, Spell Pierce on Genesis Wave, Forked Bolt on the dorks. Everything went my way, and why wouldn't it? My spells do much more for far less.
Round 4 vs. RBG Burn (2-1) This guy Mauro has been successfully piloting Burn at Face to Face since before I even started playing there, and he chose to stick to his guns and not splash for Cruise. No Boros Charm either, but he had Black for Bump and splashed Green for sideboard Destructive Revelry (which, obviously, I didn't see). I had dropped Engineered Explosives from my sideboard for a second Hallow prior to the event since my meta is so full of Burn and Delver, and was pretty happy for it. Game 1 I got stuck on a Hallowed Fountain and only even drew into a second land once I'd hit 5 life. I had resolved a Serum Visions and a Thought Scour and even fetched/milled away nonlands revealed by Goblin Guide, but I just couldn't find a mana source. Game 2 he got stuck on a single land for a couple turns; I Helixed his Goblin Guide and eventually tore him apart with a Cat. He gets to 3 lands and plays around my Lightning Helix by holding up Skullcrack mana, but I clock him the whole time. I get him down to 6 life and he Bolts my Cat in his Main Phase. Me at 7 life, I Helix him at the End Step; he responds by tapping out for Skullcrack, bringing me to 4, and I show him a second Helix for the scoop. Game 3 I open an incredible hand of Hallow, Helix, Negate, Pierce, Cat, and two fetches, and take things very slowly, letting all my lands come into play tapped (I want to Pierce/Hallow a Searing Blaze). I get Cat down turn 3 and start clocking. Serum Visions scrys me a Tarmogoyf and a Spellskite, which eats a Rift Bolt aimed at Nacatl and then dies to a Goblin Guide attack. He Molten Rains my red source, but I can fetch another one so I save my Negate for higher-impact cards. Lightning Helix hits his Guide and I get to Spell Pierce a second Molten Rain. I drop the Goyf to increase pressure, and a Hallow on his Lightning Bolt lets me seal up the game at a cool 12 life.
Overall, I'm not at all surprised with the deck's performance. I wouldn't play anything else in this meta. We have favorable matchups against all the good decks. Keep in mind I was consistently going 3-1 without Treasure Cruise. That card brings us way over the top.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
If they bought into affinity looking for a quick, synergistic aggro deck with intricate and delicate lines of play that can steal wins out of nowhere, they're usually quite fun to play against.
If they bought affinity for a budget deck that puts up results and offers 'free win' potential, they're salty if they lose.
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Source : Daily events decklists on the mothership
Period covered : (October 31st to November 4th)
4-0 decks :
Mono Red : 4
Melira Pod : 3
Hate Bears : 2
Tron : 2
Scapeshift : 2
UR Delver : 2
Blue Moon : 1
Living End : 1
Jeskai Control : 1
Affinity : 1
Skred Red : 1
Boggles : 1
Splinter Twin : 1
Prison Enchantments (Zur the Enchanter) : 1
Amulet Combo : 1
Merfolk : 1
Jund w/ Cruise : 1
3-1 decks :
UR Delver : 19
Melira Pod : 9
Mono Red : 8
Affinity : 7
Soul Sisters : 6
Abzan Midrange : 6
Scapeshift : 5
Spliner Twin : 4
Tron : 4
Boggles : 4
Naya Zoo : 3
GB Rock : 3
Boros :2
Hate Bears : 2
Amulet Combo : 2
Merfolk : 2
Jeskai Delver : 2
Jeskai Gesit : 2
Infect : 1
Temur Delver : 1
Living End : 1
Jeskai Control : 1
Jund Vengevine : 1
Rakdos Aggro : 1
Prison Enchantments : 1
Gifts : 1
Sultai Midrange : 1
Tezzeret : 1
Orzhov Midrange : 1
Esper Control : 1
Orzhov Midrange : 1
Esper Control : 1
Possibility Storm Combo : 1
Battle of Wits : 1
Grixis : 1
UR Delver are out in numbers and it shows. The amount of 3-1 may not be as surprising considering the hate, some deck archetypes preying on them and the mirror match. Still Tier 1.
However, we can see a diversity of decks that can do 4-0 and do not run Treasure Cruise, so its Bannable status is still debatable.
In the 3-1 department, there is an incredible variety of decks in all archetypes, which is a good thing, kudos to Matthias Hunt who 3-1 ed with a Battle of Wits deck, it takes guts to run this
If I were to run the countercat deck in a competitive field, my testing gauntlet would be :
UR Delver
Scapeshift
Melira Pod
Mono Red
Hate Bears
Abzan Midrange/GB Rock
Boggles
What do you think ?
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
@Topic, the tests, which I have made with this deck, showed me, that it is one of the best Cruise deck. It is stronger than UR Delver, since we have the better threads and removal and have the better SB-cards (like Pyroclasm, which I love atm in this Meta). The only problem is Blood Moon from their SB, but I haven't seen it in a while. Because I don't own Goyfs, I can't play this deck in Milano, but I will start playing it in paper too, once I get those Goyfs (and they are soooo expensive )
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
@Topic, I have gotten lots of fun playing that archetype and am also successful with it despite the fact that my version is slightly different than Ashton's. ( I dont run Thought Scour and run 3 cruises, maybe going to 4 now, but adopted the Hallow and Faithless Looting Tech)
For the goyfs, I dont know about current price trends in Europe, but over here its price is going down slightly right now ( 210$ US Near Mint on SCG compared to 250$ a few weeks ago ). But that trend may change depending on the top decks at Grand Prix Madrid in two weeks. If its price continue to drop, I believe it will soon be a good time to invest in those by the end of the year. ( Also add the ban list announcement in January as a factor )
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Zoo : Game 1 can be a bit of a coin flip depending of opening hands and who goes first, but after sideboard it is pretty much to our advantage. Just be careful to any blood moons they may side in.
Scapeshift : The name of the game is to stick threats early and keep the counters to prevent the removal and delay the combo kill. Playing first helps.
Chalice : Chalice is annoying when they maindeck it, but only a few archetypes run it main. Once you know which deck run it MD, teach yourself how to recognize it based on its early plays. Then you can play around the turn 2 chalice acocordingly. Post sideboard, you have the counters and the Destructive Revelry to deal with it. Reducing slightly the amount of 1 cost spells can help too.
Oh and dont forget that if there is an active chalice at 1 ( or 2) , you can still cast the spells in order to feed the Treasure Cruises if needed.
Zoo: Easy. Snap/Path/Bolt/Helix destroys them. Revelry for Blood Moon.
Scapeshift: A bye. We're 2-3 turns faster than them. Play around Firespout and Pierce their Commands. Expect Baloth G2.
Chalice: Who even plays this? Artifact hate G2. Tarmogoyf should mop them up anyway.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I still had game against that although I lost 2-0 ( grindy game 1 and mana screw + Suspended Detritivore G2), but still, all this hate... this is ridiculous.
EDIT : 0-2 drop, oh well. Lost to Pod R2. Siege Rhino wrecked me G1 and Mana screw G2, yay !!
Bad days happens heh ?