Yeah I'm pretty set on running hangarback walker x4 now. I learned on gatherer that even when it dies from blocking an infect creature you still get token. This is pretty sweet because there are many infect decks in my metagame.
With those i'll add a miren, the moaning well. Works great with both hangarback and vedalken shackles, and it is nice to have vs burn since our vedalkens have somewhat high toughness.
Sea gate wreckage seems pretty slow, but could be good vs grindy matchups. Unfortunately we don't have that many C sources to reliably activate it. Maybe you could add a playset of blue painlands to accommodate it? It might work then, but it would make shackles pretty bad...
Splashing red because aggro decks must be addressed. Galvanic blast seems better positioned than vedalken shackles right now, i'm the artifact may be too slow now. Blast can also finish off the opponent, increasing our speed, which will be crucial i think.
Red also means i can play blood moon, for all the big mana decks. It is also a way to shut down B/G/x decks, which always have been pretty good vs us. We can play Ghirapur Æther Grid as well, mainly for affinity but also for all the swarming decks like elves, tokens, soul sisters, etc. I also think thorn of amethyst x4 will be good vs all the unfair decks.
I have been loving Thorn of Amethyst as a 3x of on sideboard. Basically I sideboard them in for infect and burn and they do wonders as they force infect to play fair so there are less free and cheap spells for them to just combo out in combat and just pushed burn back until I can land lodestone golem.
Sorry for double post but i want to share the new list i'm trying for the new metagame:Splashing red because aggro decks must be addressed. Galvanic blast seems better positioned than vedalken shackles right now, i'm the artifact may be too slow now. Blast can also finish off the opponent, increasing our speed, which will be crucial i think.
Red also means i can play blood moon, for all the big mana decks. It is also a way to shut down B/G/x decks, which always have been pretty good vs us. We can play Ghirapur Æther Grid as well, mainly for affinity but also for all the swarming decks like elves, tokens, soul sisters, etc. I also think thorn of amethyst x4 will be good vs all the unfair decks.Thoughts/Ideas?
Looks like one of your original lists. Eight fetches look like too many with only 20 land. You'll thin out all your mana before drawing enough to cast Grand Architect, esp with 4x Lodestone Golem.
For this meta, Blast is good for all the aggro presented.
As far as the Eldrazi matchup, you might want 2x Ghost Quarter instead of some of those fetchlands. I'd also recommend atleast 2x Phyrexian Metamorph in the mix; you can copy Thought-Knot Seer, Drowner of Hope and Matter Reshaper, getting the benefits aswell since they aren't "on cast" effects. You could also copy a Reality Smasher and do so smashing of you own lol. All without being taxed by Golem.
Looks like one of your original lists. Eight fetches look like too many with only 20 land. You'll thin out all your mana before drawing enough to cast Grand Architect, esp with 4x Lodestone Golem.
For this meta, Blast is good for all the aggro presented.
As far as the Eldrazi matchup, you might want 2x Ghost Quarter instead of some of those fetchlands. I'd also recommend atleast 2x Phyrexian Metamorph in the mix; you can copy Thought-Knot Seer, Drowner of Hope and Matter Reshaper, getting the benefits aswell since they aren't "on cast" effects. You could also copy a Reality Smasher and do so smashing of you own lol. All without being taxed by Golem.
Well, on the one hand, if i draw less than 3 lands int my first 3 turns, fetches reduce chances of hitting my land drops (but only by a small margin). On the other hand after 3-4 land drops i don't want to ever draw a land again (except blinkmoth nexus, but fetches don't affect them). Anyways i've settled on 6 fetches + 2 sulfur falls so i should be fine.
Phyreaian metamorph is always good and increases redundancy which is very good in this deck, so i'll try to find some room for a couple.
Is spellskite MD even needed anymore, with the banning of splinter twin? I'm keeping two in the side for sure, but maybe it is time to let go of them in the main. I'm considering playing 4 lightning bolts in their place, so that i have 8 bolts! Maybe that's too much for a lodestone golem deck... Thoughts on that?
Pyrite Spellbomb might better than Bolt simply because it doesn't get taxed by Golem and draws a card.
Also would throw in an Academy Ruins.
Yes pyrite spellbomb seems very good, thanks, i'll add some. Ruins is maybe a bit greedy, i'm not playing vial, so only 16 blue sources is already few to have 1UU for grand architect turn 3. 12 red sources is just enough for my red spells, so i can't afford to cut colored mana sources.
Can't find room for metamorph... I really think removal is good here, I want to test this suite. Not having any has been a frustration i've had with the deck. Being able to throw the damage to the face makes it even better.
Also after some testing with the red splash i've come to the conclusion that the eldrazi matchup is pretty decent and it felt like the red cards aren't needed since we can either outclass most creatures with myr superion of just swarm the opponent. So i'm going back to mono-blue:
Seems like resolving a wurmcoil can take care of most decks in the new meta. I also missed judge's familiar and metamorph is awesome in general.
EDIT: keeping 2 skites main, they are still good but 4x was too many.
Reporting from today's tournament, went 3-0-1 and tied for first place after intentional draw round 4, beating infect, merfolk and u/w gift tron.
I made last minute changes, swapping the 2 wurmcoil engines for 2 batterskulls. There's a lot of path to exile in my meta, hangarback walker is already weak to those, but strong vs sweepers and terminate/kolaghan's command style removal. I wanted something better vs path, snapcaster mage, path, to diversify my threat's weaknesses and batterskull is perfect. Comes down a turn earlier too, that can make a big difference.
I also put a couple of quicksilver fountains in my sideboard. They did a lot of work vs tron gifts. It is the closest thing to blood moon we have vs big mana decks. I also tried ratchet bomb but they are quite awkward, i never want to blow up my own things. I guess i'll have to stick to echoing truth, because some people in my meta started to play worship in their sideboard to answer all the aggro decks. We can't beat the card unless we remove it...
I always refer to this article from Frank Karsten when building mana bases.
According to this analysis, we would need 14 islands for turn one familiar (which we have) and 19 U sources for turn 3 architect (which i am far from having). In addition to that we need islands for vedalken shackles. Playing 4 blinkmoth nexus is already kind of greedy, but they are need in my list as additional ways to cast myr superion.
Of course the math in this article doesn't account for things like Æther Vial, so maybe you can get away with fewer blue mana sources, but i can't and i'm stuck with having to play 15-16 islands.
I don't get ensnaring bridge, you're still only winning by attacking in this deck?
EDIT: i see the mindslaver combo, but your deck is still full of master of waves and wurmcoil engine which become useless with bridge... I still think you need to attack most games...
EDIT: i see the mindslaver combo, but your deck is still full of master of waves and wurmcoil engine which become useless with bridge... I still think you need to attack most games...
The trick is being specific. Name a deck where you want to attack?
Scapeshift? Okay, don't cast bridge.
Eldrazi? Hmm not really, bridge stops ALL their attacks forever. At some point you can get more creatures than they, then swing under bridge by hold 3 cards in your hand. What are they gonna do, swing with a few 3/3s into your army?
Infect? If they can't attack you then you cannot die. Bridge trumps them.
Zoo? Bridge can buy you lots of time, almost infinite. You'll be able to find a wurm and slam in, then hold cards in your hand til you can attack. They can't profitably attack into wurm. Or just borrow their creatures and swing under the birdge, then play a card to keep bridge active.
Bridge is symmetrical but you choose when it harms you. There are a lot of decks in modern that lose to bridge. For those that don't, you can choose not to cast bridge then side them out.
After some good bit of testing I've normalized the list to this. Biggest changes are the ability to have 5 mana on turn 3 with the 2 mana accel guys. This allows for quick use of shackles and/or batterskull. Trading Post was a good addition, thanks for that. It's a 5 mana threat that gains life, kills our hangarbacks/bridges or recycles mindslaver. Snapback is also very exciting as it buys us time against aggressive decks, it offers a surprise factor that people won't play around, and can randomly protect our guys or empty our hand for bridge. Unsure how necessary the phyrexia cores are, as islands are important. Sideboard is obviously still mostly a guess, as with any new deck.
This deck feels like a combo deck in that you setup for a bit, then surprise slaver. sideboard offers backup plan with spine to hit stony silence, myr to give blockers. and other utility creatures.
After some good bit of testing I've normalized the list to this. Biggest changes are the ability to have 5 mana on turn 3 with the 2 mana accel guys. This allows for quick use of shackles and/or batterskull. Trading Post was a good addition, thanks for that. It's a 5 mana threat that gains life, kills our hangarbacks/bridges or recycles mindslaver. Snapback is also very exciting as it buys us time against aggressive decks, it offers a surprise factor that people won't play around, and can randomly protect our guys or empty our hand for bridge. Unsure how necessary the phyrexia cores are, as islands are important. Sideboard is obviously still mostly a guess, as with any new deck.
Cavern of Souls might be good against control decks. Never tested with Weaponsmith and Engineer, prefer Chief Engineer for the pseudo haste...
I tried Mindslaver awhile ago in this deck, one thing I realized was that I needed to keep my blue guys on the field.
maybe: +3 Spellskite/Kira in the main...
Phyrexian Metamorph can add redundancy, or even just copy something of the opponents. Expedition Map could help find Academy Ruins or other utility lands.
I really like trading post. Seems like it would help in grindy matchups vs decks full of removal. The lifegain is decent vs burn/aggro, and it also has some sweet synergy with vedalken shackles and hangarback walker. I'll probably include one or two for testing today.
That new version with world breaker is kind of scary though.
I've actually thought about using Torpor Orb as a sideboard card. I am cureently planning on testing it with Dodecapod currently.
Topor orb should help deal with that but also deal with Collected Company and U-Tron. Further Dodecapod helps with Jund a lot which has been getting bigger in my meta recently.
We never lack blockers and it could allow blowouts vs eldrazi and other creature decks. It laughs in the face of big guys like tron's wurmcoil engine and ulamog, the ceaseless hunger, remove affinity's evasion, etc.
With those i'll add a miren, the moaning well. Works great with both hangarback and vedalken shackles, and it is nice to have vs burn since our vedalkens have somewhat high toughness.
Sea gate wreckage seems pretty slow, but could be good vs grindy matchups. Unfortunately we don't have that many C sources to reliably activate it. Maybe you could add a playset of blue painlands to accommodate it? It might work then, but it would make shackles pretty bad...
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Myr Superion
4 Chief Engineer
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Spellskite
4 Grand Architect
4 Lodestone Golem
4 galvanic blast
lands: 20
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
4 steam vents
4 island
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
2 relic of progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
2 Dispel
2 Ghirapur Æther Grid
2 blood moon
1 Torpor Orb
Splashing red because aggro decks must be addressed. Galvanic blast seems better positioned than vedalken shackles right now, i'm the artifact may be too slow now. Blast can also finish off the opponent, increasing our speed, which will be crucial i think.
Red also means i can play blood moon, for all the big mana decks. It is also a way to shut down B/G/x decks, which always have been pretty good vs us. We can play Ghirapur Æther Grid as well, mainly for affinity but also for all the swarming decks like elves, tokens, soul sisters, etc. I also think thorn of amethyst x4 will be good vs all the unfair decks.
Thoughts/Ideas?
For this meta, Blast is good for all the aggro presented.
As far as the Eldrazi matchup, you might want 2x Ghost Quarter instead of some of those fetchlands. I'd also recommend atleast 2x Phyrexian Metamorph in the mix; you can copy Thought-Knot Seer, Drowner of Hope and Matter Reshaper, getting the benefits aswell since they aren't "on cast" effects. You could also copy a Reality Smasher and do so smashing of you own lol. All without being taxed by Golem.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Well, on the one hand, if i draw less than 3 lands int my first 3 turns, fetches reduce chances of hitting my land drops (but only by a small margin). On the other hand after 3-4 land drops i don't want to ever draw a land again (except blinkmoth nexus, but fetches don't affect them). Anyways i've settled on 6 fetches + 2 sulfur falls so i should be fine.
Phyreaian metamorph is always good and increases redundancy which is very good in this deck, so i'll try to find some room for a couple.
Is spellskite MD even needed anymore, with the banning of splinter twin? I'm keeping two in the side for sure, but maybe it is time to let go of them in the main. I'm considering playing 4 lightning bolts in their place, so that i have 8 bolts! Maybe that's too much for a lodestone golem deck... Thoughts on that?
Also would throw in an Academy Ruins.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Yes pyrite spellbomb seems very good, thanks, i'll add some. Ruins is maybe a bit greedy, i'm not playing vial, so only 16 blue sources is already few to have 1UU for grand architect turn 3. 12 red sources is just enough for my red spells, so i can't afford to cut colored mana sources.
So something like:
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Myr Superion
4 Chief Engineer
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Grand Architect
4 Lodestone Golem
4 galvanic blast
artifacts: 4
4 pyrite spellbomb
lands: 20
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 sulfur falls
2 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
4 steam vents
4 island
2 ghirapur aether grid
2 blood moon
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
2 relic of progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
Can't find room for metamorph... I really think removal is good here, I want to test this suite. Not having any has been a frustration i've had with the deck. Being able to throw the damage to the face makes it even better.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
That's kind of funny, i've heard the trick with loxodon smither and wilt-leaf liege but i forgot dodecapod existed. Not sure it is worth a sideboard slot, maybe vs liliana of the veil decks?
Also after some testing with the red splash i've come to the conclusion that the eldrazi matchup is pretty decent and it felt like the red cards aren't needed since we can either outclass most creatures with myr superion of just swarm the opponent. So i'm going back to mono-blue:
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Signal Pest
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Myr Superion
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Chief Engineer
2 spellskite
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Wurmcoil Engine
artifacts: 2
2 Vedalken Shackles
lands: 20
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
15 Snow-Covered Islands
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
Seems like resolving a wurmcoil can take care of most decks in the new meta. I also missed judge's familiar and metamorph is awesome in general.
EDIT: keeping 2 skites main, they are still good but 4x was too many.
I made last minute changes, swapping the 2 wurmcoil engines for 2 batterskulls. There's a lot of path to exile in my meta, hangarback walker is already weak to those, but strong vs sweepers and terminate/kolaghan's command style removal. I wanted something better vs path, snapcaster mage, path, to diversify my threat's weaknesses and batterskull is perfect. Comes down a turn earlier too, that can make a big difference.
I also put a couple of quicksilver fountains in my sideboard. They did a lot of work vs tron gifts. It is the closest thing to blood moon we have vs big mana decks. I also tried ratchet bomb but they are quite awkward, i never want to blow up my own things. I guess i'll have to stick to echoing truth, because some people in my meta started to play worship in their sideboard to answer all the aggro decks. We can't beat the card unless we remove it...
Find those to be good with Crucible of Worlds or is Quicksilver Fountain better?
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Ghost quarter in particular would be excellent, and would make crucible of worlds a decent option. Quicksilver fountain is also good, the ideal scenario would be to play both MD GQ and sideboard fountain. But as i said, we need blue mana to cast turn one judge's familiar and turn 3 grand architect.
I always refer to this article from Frank Karsten when building mana bases.
According to this analysis, we would need 14 islands for turn one familiar (which we have) and 19 U sources for turn 3 architect (which i am far from having). In addition to that we need islands for vedalken shackles. Playing 4 blinkmoth nexus is already kind of greedy, but they are need in my list as additional ways to cast myr superion.
Of course the math in this article doesn't account for things like Æther Vial, so maybe you can get away with fewer blue mana sources, but i can't and i'm stuck with having to play 15-16 islands.
2 Spellskite
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Chief Engineer
4 Grand Architect
3 Treasure Mage
3 Master of Waves
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mindslaver
17 Island
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Academy Ruins
4 Swan Song
3 Torpor Orb
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Steel Hellkite
I don't get ensnaring bridge, you're still only winning by attacking in this deck?
EDIT: i see the mindslaver combo, but your deck is still full of master of waves and wurmcoil engine which become useless with bridge... I still think you need to attack most games...
You can't bounce the bridge with Æther Spellbomb, it only bounces creatures...
Trading Post works too...
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
The trick is being specific. Name a deck where you want to attack?
Scapeshift? Okay, don't cast bridge.
Eldrazi? Hmm not really, bridge stops ALL their attacks forever. At some point you can get more creatures than they, then swing under bridge by hold 3 cards in your hand. What are they gonna do, swing with a few 3/3s into your army?
Infect? If they can't attack you then you cannot die. Bridge trumps them.
Zoo? Bridge can buy you lots of time, almost infinite. You'll be able to find a wurm and slam in, then hold cards in your hand til you can attack. They can't profitably attack into wurm. Or just borrow their creatures and swing under the birdge, then play a card to keep bridge active.
Bridge is symmetrical but you choose when it harms you. There are a lot of decks in modern that lose to bridge. For those that don't, you can choose not to cast bridge then side them out.
2 Hangarback Walker
4 Renowned Weaponsmith
3 Vedalken Engineer
4 Grand Architect
4 Treasure Mage
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Snapback
3 Vedalken Shackles
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Trading Post
2 Batterskull
1 Mindslaver
2 Academy Ruins
2 Phyrexia's Core
4 Swan Song
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Spellskite
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Spine of Ish Sah
This deck feels like a combo deck in that you setup for a bit, then surprise slaver. sideboard offers backup plan with spine to hit stony silence, myr to give blockers. and other utility creatures.
I tried Mindslaver awhile ago in this deck, one thing I realized was that I needed to keep my blue guys on the field.
maybe: +3 Spellskite/Kira in the main...
Phyrexian Metamorph can add redundancy, or even just copy something of the opponents.
Expedition Map could help find Academy Ruins or other utility lands.
Also you aren't inhibited by Lodestone Golem, so why no Serum Visions or Thirst for Knowledge?
Either way, seems like its coming together, do you play on mtgo?
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
That new version with world breaker is kind of scary though.
I've actually thought about using Torpor Orb as a sideboard card. I am cureently planning on testing it with Dodecapod currently.
Topor orb should help deal with that but also deal with Collected Company and U-Tron. Further Dodecapod helps with Jund a lot which has been getting bigger in my meta recently.
We never lack blockers and it could allow blowouts vs eldrazi and other creature decks. It laughs in the face of big guys like tron's wurmcoil engine and ulamog, the ceaseless hunger, remove affinity's evasion, etc.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant