Ive found when running a 4/4 each of the Dictate and Heartbeat that I often draw too many and that they are often not needed. Enter the Infinite is a good card and it has done things for me that other spells wouldn't, but to increase consistency ive cut it and gone down to a 3/3 split. The difference in our lists I think is that you use Teachings to search for the Dictate while I use a Drift to search for the Heartbeat. I often find myself going off on a turn when I play a Heartbeat and my Dictates are usually countered or just suck up a turn. Personally, I like the 2/2 split and if it works for you then keep it, I might try the same thing but with 4 mainboard Drifts to tutor for Heartbeat.
I love Sleight of Hand but setting up the next draw can be a big difference. Both have their ups and downs. 1 thing I cant understand is the cutting of Telling Time. Its by far my favorite card in the deck. I will always run 4.
I am running 3 Remand and no other hard counter besides a Swan Song in the main. Most of the time it is a Time Walk that cantrips. I love it.
I run 1 Bound // Determined in the main so I can get it with a Merchant Scroll before going off. Even against decks that don't run counter spells it basically just cycles for 2 mana. Venser seems great, haven't tested him yet. Seems good against creature decks. Gaea's Blessing I have in my sideboard as a 1 of. I like it but I wanna make it fit in my main. The fact that it can recycle our Early Harvests is HUGE. The only reason I ran Time Reversal was because it would bring all the Harvests back and this is better, cheaper and doesn't have the draw back of a potential bad draw. I have tested Condescend but it seems ok. If youre on the play it seems really good but against a control deck or being on the draw it doesn't seem as good.
On a side note, I love your list right now. It looks really toolboxy and versatile.
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Ive found when running a 4/4 each of the Dictate and Heartbeat that I often draw too many and that they are often not needed. Enter the Infinite is a good card and it has done things for me that other spells wouldn't, but to increase consistency ive cut it and gone down to a 3/3 split. The difference in our lists I think is that you use Teachings to search for the Dictate while I use a Drift to search for the Heartbeat. I often find myself going off on a turn when I play a Heartbeat and my Dictates are usually countered or just suck up a turn. Personally, I like the 2/2 split and if it works for you then keep it, I might try the same thing but with 4 mainboard Drifts to tutor for Heartbeat.
I don't want to create dead draws and flood with the enchantments. You can reliably tutor and filter for them and any more than 4 is overkill. It's the same as Splinter Twin decks running Pestermite, Deceiver Exarch, Village Bell-Ringer, and Sky Hussar. Yes you always have your combo peices, but it is such overkill that it takes away from the deck. You should only need to play the essentials so that there is more open slots in the deck for better, more versatile cards.
I love Sleight of Hand but setting up the next draw can be a big difference. Both have their ups and downs. 1 thing I cant understand is the cutting of Telling Time. Its by far my favorite card in the deck. I will always run 4.
It is better when you are comboing. You don't really care about setting up draws, just getting the right cards. Serum Visions is better at getting to the combo, then ok while comboing. Sleight of Hand is better during the combo, but worse than SV other times. Still trying to find a good split I like.
I am running 3 Remand and no other hard counter besides a Swan Song in the main. Most of the time it is a Time Walk that cantrips. I love it.
What do you do when you resolve some mana thing, and they Cryptic your Early Harvest? You Remand it so they can cast it again? What if they counter your Merchant scroll trying to find Determined, you Remand it and they cast it again? It is ok during turns 2-3, but you have to versatile past that.
My meta is a lot different than yours, there is like 1/2 control decks out of the 40 or so that show up for FNM. Close to half of the field is some sort of Zoo/Midrange/Burn brew and the other half is Twin/Pod/Jund (more Pod than either of the other 2). So I would rather use something like Remand to Time Walk against a midrange deck for a turn and use Steves to blank a Nacatl for a turn than worry about the 1 guy in the room (who sometimes doesn't even play control because he has many other decks). I recently went to another large event a few days ago (I played Pod, not this deck) and 90% of the games I saw were other homebrews/zoo/jund/pod variants. I don't know if its just the area I live in or the stores I go to but control decks are VERY rare to find.
However in these hypothetical situations, if they counter the Early Harvest I will either have to answer it or let it be countered obviously. But ive run into situations mid-combo where I will hold priority after casting a spell and Remand it just to get the card draw. And a few of those times it has saved me as opposed to Swan Song'ing a Cryptic Command that would be dead in hand against 90%+ of the meta I play in.
PS. There were also 2 Delver decks I forgot to mention but they only run Remands and Spell Pierce in their mainboard but I haven't seen them around in almost 2 months.
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Ok, so this is more of a our there idea for the deck that I think is not really on topic but...
One thing I was looking at was Doubling Cube to boost our mana. We could maybe add in some crazy artifact ramp such as Lotus Bloom + Reshape. Then add in Ichor Wellspring and Thirst for Knowladge for some card draw and you have a nice shell when combined for this. I fell like it will just turn into another deck, but why not throw out the idea?
Another thing I was looking at was Twincast. It is a Counterspell because you can copy your opponents counter and use it on them. It is also the kind of versatile card I am looking for in the deck because when combined with Early Harvest it doubles our mana production. Maybe as a 2 of in the deck, with one copy replacing a Reality Spasm.
Ok, so this is more of a our there idea for the deck that I think is not really on topic but...
One thing I was looking at was Doubling Cube to boost our mana. We could maybe add in some crazy artifact ramp such as Lotus Bloom + Reshape. Then add in Ichor Wellspring and Thirst for Knowladge for some card draw and you have a nice shell when combined for this. I fell like it will just turn into another deck, but why not throw out the idea?
Another thing I was looking at was Twincast. It is a Counterspell because you can copy your opponents counter and use it on them. It is also the kind of versatile card I am looking for in the deck because when combined with Early Harvest it doubles our mana production. Maybe as a 2 of in the deck, with one copy replacing a Reality Spasm.
I really like Doubling Cube and I am going to test it tomorrow. Twincast is OK but if you draw it in the early game or towards the end of the combo it can be a dead card. I mean, its nice being able to copy an Early Harvest but in some situations id rather just draw something like a Telling Time, Early Harvest, Reality Spasm or Drift.
Also I think im going to run some Muddle the Mixture, something like a 1/1 split in the main/side. If its a dead card against a non-blue deck it can transmute for something like Snapcaster, Sakura, Telling Time, Gaea's Blessing, Merchant Scroll, Remand, Snapback, or Determined. It might be worse than a Twincast but Twincast seems really situational when having a tutor could be better. I mean, say you Blue Sun'd yourself and youre down to a Twincast, some lands and some Tribe-Elders or Search for Tomorrow. Using it to tutor for a Snapcaster, then Snap an Early Harvest seems better than copying a draw spell.
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Without actually trying it out, Twincast acts as a counter spell in the early game and doubles your mana producers or a BSZ in the "late game".
BSZ with 10 mana in the pool wont get you anything extra, you could draw 4 or twin cast drawing 2.
BSZ with 23 mana in the pool would get you 30 cards? Thats a bit better.
BSZ with 25 mana gets you 40 cards? It would cut down on the number of times you have to get back early harvests or play extra dictates before un tapping. Definitely worth a shot.
Doubling cube would be 2-3 in the deck and fill the remaining for the set with reality spasm? Again you will need a decent amount in the pool to make it really worth it though.
10 floating, 3 to cube for 14, 6 to untap & activate gives you 16. Thats not very much for so much work.
20 floating, 17 becomes 34, which becomes 56. Thats about twice what you started with isn't bad but it is still probably easier to just cast early harvest then snap-caster it back.
Unless I'm missing something here.
Without actually trying it out, Twincast acts as a counter spell in the early game and doubles your mana producers or a BSZ in the "late game".
BSZ with 10 mana in the pool wont get you anything extra, you could draw 4 or twin cast drawing 2.
BSZ with 23 mana in the pool would get you 30 cards? Thats a bit better.
BSZ with 25 mana gets you 40 cards? It would cut down on the number of times you have to get back early harvests or play extra dictates before un tapping. Definitely worth a shot.
Doubling cube would be 2-3 in the deck and fill the remaining for the set with reality spasm? Again you will need a decent amount in the pool to make it really worth it though.
10 floating, 3 to cube for 14, 6 to untap & activate gives you 16. Thats not very much for so much work.
20 floating, 17 becomes 34, which becomes 56. Thats about twice what you started with isn't bad but it is still probably easier to just cast early harvest then snap-caster it back.
Unless I'm missing something here.
I guess since it is only good at 30+ mana then it isn't worth looking into. It was still worth suggesting I guess.
So in my spare time I made a Gatherer search for every rare in modern that is G or U and splashed either R or W. The list of things I found from them that could work in the deck is kinda long. I'll update the primer with some of the ones I like more than others. My thoughts on each are below.
Cerebral Vortex: This think can be a finisher in the deck. We only have to have the opponent draw 18 cards then they die from this, probably even less from shocklands. If we really need to it can draw some cards for us aswell. More versatile than Grapeshot for sure.
Increasing Confusion: Again another wincon. If it is flashbeacked we only need about 20 mana to win with this. Easy stuff and it works from the yard too.
Invoke the Firemind: This thing doubles as a in con and a 2 use BSZ. If we can get the deck consistent enough that 1 draw and 1 fireball is sufficient it could maybe work well.
Plasma Capture: This is an awesome counterspell that could kickstart our combo with some extra mana. The only problem is hoping that the opponent casts something...
Reiterate: This and Early Harvest and 9 mana go infinite. You need your lands to be producing 10 mana at a time, but bey thats turns 4-5 for us. It could work because it also acts as a counterspell if need be.
Wood Elves: A possible replacement for Steve. It costs 1 more, but leaves out curve open at 2 mana to always have a counter up. It also puts the land into play untpped which is slightly more useful, but not 100% needed.
Pulse of the Grid: This could be cool. Probably less pratical than BSZ, but it will always be in our hand. We could snake it up like have them draw 10, cast this until we draw up to 10, have them draw 10 more etc.... my guess is that it would be too much mana to make it work.
Natural Affinity: + a Pyroclasm or something along those lines? If there is a way to make it more one sided I think we could make it work. Like have the opponents bounce all their now creature-lands and then have an extra 3-4 turns while they replay them all. Combine it with Echoing Decay maybe? I think this idea has potentas as we could win with the lands. At the same time Rude Awakening sort-of combines both ideas we want.
I also want to add some of the above to the color splash sections and sidebaord options as well as Obstinate Baloth, Meddling Mage, and Pithing Needle from what I can remember off the top of my head.
The last thing is because I am so big on having every card in the deck do double duty as a combo piece and something else useful, I was really looking into the combo potential of Reality Spasm. I think it has a good possibilty to go infinite, but in a less clunky way than Sigil Tracer + Snapcaster Mage + Reality Spasm. There has to be something better than a Crab Umbra + Echo Mage + Early Harvest, or Echo Mage + Reality Spasm. I have a feeling that this deck won't ever have a infinite combo unless something really amazing is printed, but it can't hurt to look right?
Some thoughs on my post above (because it makes more sense to double post than edit the above)
My reasoning for starting to like Reality Spasm more than Early Harvest is simply that it is more versatile. It does cost more mana than Harvest, but the range of applications that it has outdoes its competitor. For example Reality Spasm can:
- Untap all your lands at instant speed (Rude Awakening)
- Tap opponents lands on their upkeep (Time Walk)
- Tap opponents creatures before they attack (Fog)
- Untap your creatures to block (Like vigilance)
- Has the potential for infinite mana combos with a bunch of different cards
- Allows you to play nonbasic lands (THIS IS A BIG ONE)
- Untap all your lands at instant speed (Rude Awakening)
So you can see that there are more applications for Reality Spasm, although it is not directly allowing us to combo off better, it helps us survive until we can. For example I played against RG Tron, and he had a turn 3 Tron with Karn in hand. I was able to Remand the Karn on turn 3, and then on his next upkeep I cast Reality Spasm tapping down his Tron lands. This gave me two turns of land drops and time to get a Dictate in my hand. On his next turn he cast the Karn so I let it resolve, and because I only had basics (and was a control deck) he took a card from my hand. I gave him a Swan Song and then played the Dictate on his end step and went on to win. From what I could tell the Reality Spasm saved me in the game because he had a O-stone in his hand and he couldn't have known to cast it, but because of the Spasm I delayed him long enough to win.
Enough of that though. I played Wednesday Modern tonight and had a terrible night. I played two of the worst matchups, Affinity and Jund. Basically Affinity wins too fast for us to handle, and Jund rips our hand apart too much. Also Goyf is stupid hard to beat without any removal spells... The games I won were vs Tarmo Twin and Green Money Hunneds'. The deck I played was:
Basically I think I have played each matchup enough and come to the conclusions:
- We have good or pretty even matchups vs. Tron, Pod, Bogles, Storm, Burn (w/ Leylines), and like most of the other decks in Established
- We have iffy matchups vs Twin, UWR Control, Scapeshift, BW Tokens, Ad Nauseam
- We auto-loose to Jund, BG Rock, Loam Variants, Affinity, Zoo (most times), 8 Rack, and any other really aggro decks or ones that pack a lot of discard.
I really want to be better vs aggro, so I am going to seriously going to look into a red splash for the deck. It will stop aggro and give us an out to the Goyf menace. We will have an out in the form of burn. I'll also look into how we can use Reality Spasm and friends to their maximum effectivenesses to reduce the strain on the manabase. Like what if we used Utopia Sprawl on a couple basic lands that we tutor up, like 6 of them. Then we can have 5 other nonbasics and fetches or something. We could have a smaller combo package by using Gifts or more transmute effects, or go all out like UR Storm. Use Thought Scour to fill our yard and then use Past in Flames. I will be brewing over the weekend, but I also don't want the deck to turn into something it's not (aka Storm, or Gifts, or Scapeshift). Anyways, hopefully big update sometime this weekend with some new ideas of mine. I am looking hopeful for playing a RUG version of this.
Some thoughs on my post above (because it makes more sense to double post than edit the above)
My reasoning for starting to like Reality Spasm more than Early Harvest is simply that it is more versatile. It does cost more mana than Harvest, but the range of applications that it has outdoes its competitor. For example Reality Spasm can:
- Untap all your lands at instant speed (Rude Awakening)
- Tap opponents lands on their upkeep (Time Walk)
- Tap opponents creatures before they attack (Fog)
- Untap your creatures to block (Like vigilance)
- Has the potential for infinite mana combos with a bunch of different cards
- Allows you to play nonbasic lands (THIS IS A BIG ONE)
- Untap all your lands at instant speed (Rude Awakening)
So you can see that there are more applications for Reality Spasm, although it is not directly allowing us to combo off better, it helps us survive until we can. For example I played against RG Tron, and he had a turn 3 Tron with Karn in hand. I was able to Remand the Karn on turn 3, and then on his next upkeep I cast Reality Spasm tapping down his Tron lands. This gave me two turns of land drops and time to get a Dictate in my hand. On his next turn he cast the Karn so I let it resolve, and because I only had basics (and was a control deck) he took a card from my hand. I gave him a Swan Song and then played the Dictate on his end step and went on to win. From what I could tell the Reality Spasm saved me in the game because he had a O-stone in his hand and he couldn't have known to cast it, but because of the Spasm I delayed him long enough to win.
Enough of that though. I played Wednesday Modern tonight and had a terrible night. I played two of the worst matchups, Affinity and Jund. Basically Affinity wins too fast for us to handle, and Jund rips our hand apart too much. Also Goyf is stupid hard to beat without any removal spells... The games I won were vs Tarmo Twin and Green Money Hunneds'. The deck I played was:
Basically I think I have played each matchup enough and come to the conclusions:
- We have good or pretty even matchups vs. Tron, Pod, Bogles, Storm, Burn (w/ Leylines), and like most of the other decks in Established
- We have iffy matchups vs Twin, UWR Control, Scapeshift, BW Tokens, Ad Nauseam
- We auto-loose to Jund, BG Rock, Loam Variants, Affinity, Zoo (most times), 8 Rack, and any other really aggro decks or ones that pack a lot of discard.
I really want to be better vs aggro, so I am going to seriously going to look into a red splash for the deck. It will stop aggro and give us an out to the Goyf menace. We will have an out in the form of burn. I'll also look into how we can use Reality Spasm and friends to their maximum effectivenesses to reduce the strain on the manabase. Like what if we used Utopia Sprawl on a couple basic lands that we tutor up, like 6 of them. Then we can have 5 other nonbasics and fetches or something. We could have a smaller combo package by using Gifts or more transmute effects, or go all out like UR Storm. Use Thought Scour to fill our yard and then use Past in Flames. I will be brewing over the weekend, but I also don't want the deck to turn into something it's not (aka Storm, or Gifts, or Scapeshift). Anyways, hopefully big update sometime this weekend with some new ideas of mine. I am looking hopeful for playing a RUG version of this.
I too have been really enjoying Reality Spasm and after testing I have found that while it is good for all the reasons you gave, and because it untaps more than basics, I still feel that leaving 3 mana up for an Early Harvest has saved me more than being able to untap 1 land for the same cost with Spasm. That said, I love the card and I will be running it as a 3 of in my list (2 in the main 1 in the side) because while it is good if things go wrong or we need to buy time, unless we are in an ALREADY winning position during the combo it can either be dead or a worse Early Harvest. There have been games against Zoo im forced to go off on turn 5 or die to kittys. And on turn 5 ive often produced a large amount of mana and had to Blue Sun myself to refuel my combo but ive always left 3 mana open so I can draw an Early Harvest or in a worst case scenario I leave 5 mana open to Snapcaster an Early Harvest. With that same amount of mana, im either untapped 1 or 3 of my (at minimum) 5 lands in a crucial part of the combo turn. Where as for 3 mana (or Snapcaster/Drift for one) can save me much more reliably.
PS: Most games I end up using it as a Time Walk in the early turns. I mean, turns 2-5 a Remand and a Reality Spasm are both basically Time Walks against the right deck.
PPS: The matchups you described are basically perfect, except Burn is a ***** matchup without Leylines (which I assumed I wouldn't be facing a lot of burn but who knew budget/new players like burn so much.)
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I think newer players would like this deck, its fairly simple and easy to pilot assuming you have watches or played Storm, High Tide or any sort of degenerate combo deck. Its also super cheap and a lot of the cards can be used in other decks assuming you aren't foiling it out.
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I think newer players would like this deck, its fairly simple and easy to pilot assuming you have watches or played Storm, High Tide or any sort of degenerate combo deck. Its also super cheap and a lot of the cards can be used in other decks assuming you aren't foiling it out.
Yeah. I was going to port over the primer to the budget section as well, but take out off of the expensive options and suggest more budget friendly ones. The thing is that it's not very easy to pilot for a new player. Anyone will look at the deck and say "So how do you win?" That is where the explanations of the primer come in.
I've also found a RUG list that I am liking, so I'll play a couple more games with it today and then post with what I have and some thoughts on it.
How fast can this deck reach 13 mana? Modern is a turn 4 format and I think having 13 mana on turn 4 for an entwined Tooth and Nail tutoring for Painter's Servant + Iona with counterspell backup is the most aggressive this combo can get. Obviously you'd have to remove some number of Mystical Teachings but I think putting your opponent in a hard lock using 9 mana sooner is more effective than milling them out with ~45 mana. Thoughts? Sorry if this has been brought up before and already rejected. Although if it was rejected, how come?
How fast can this deck reach 13 mana? Modern is a turn 4 format and I think having 13 mana on turn 4 for an entwined Tooth and Nail tutoring for Painter's Servant + Iona with counterspell backup is the most aggressive this combo can get. Obviously you'd have to remove some number of Mystical Teachings but I think putting your opponent in a hard lock using 9 mana sooner is more effective than milling them out with ~45 mana. Thoughts? Sorry if this has been brought up before and already rejected. Although if it was rejected, how come?
It has been brought up before, I think around pages 3 or 4 if you want to go look. I can edit later with the link. EDIT: HERE IT IS!
The reason for not going down that route is that the deck is extremely compact. It is like Storm in the sense that it needs all the cards it can get to help make comboing easier. For every card that doesn't help us combo that we add, it means that drawing it will make for a dead draw and potentially fizzle us, and this is the reasons for avoiding cards like Tooth and Nail, Enter the Infinite, and Omniscience if you can understand that reasoning. They give you a bias of "Oh, this card just won me the game" when the truth is that if you could have casted it, then you could have also just won the game.
That is not to say that the deck can't run them, it will however make it less consistent in generating the mana or tutoring for the cards we need. I have been working on a RUG version that I will post later tonight. It is still focused on the combo, but plays out a bit different than before and all of the cards are made to do double-duty of comboing and protecting our combo or being an alternate wincon.
That's a perfectly logical explanation. It's just that my train of thought was you're taking out Blue Sun's Zenith for T&N, Servant and Iona which is -2 cards for a faster combo. Again, it's probably nothing more than paranoia (and a bit of bias towards hard locks).
I actually made an entire NEW deck using Heartbeat of Spring with Dictate of Karametra and the same basic shell of this deck using Tooth and Nail to find Emrakul/Iona. But again, its easier to disrupt and not as good as this deck.
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I was reading over your comment and thinking "but you should tutor for Iona + Painter's Servant" but then my mind raced to the fact that Tooth and Nail is slow and easier to disrupt because it's a sorcery so I started thinking of Leyline of Anticipation (and quickly dismissed it) AND THEN I remembered about Alchemist's Refuge! Now I'm aware of it not untapping with Early Harvest and that might just be the biggest turn off right there but it seems like being able to play cards like Merchant Scroll and Heartbeat of Spring at instant speed is such a boost for this deck. On a side note, I'm going to try to forget about the whole Tooth and Nail thing since you guys brought up excellent points.
I was reading over your comment and thinking "but you should tutor for Iona + Painter's Servant" but then my mind raced to the fact that Tooth and Nail is slow and easier to disrupt because it's a sorcery so I started thinking of Leyline of Anticipation (and quickly dismissed it) AND THEN I remembered about Alchemist's Refuge! Now I'm aware of it not untapping with Early Harvest and that might just be the biggest turn off right there but it seems like being able to play cards like Merchant Scroll and Heartbeat of Spring at instant speed is such a boost for this deck. On a side note, I'm going to try to forget about the whole Tooth and Nail thing since you guys brought up excellent points.
Yeah I already thought of the Leyline but it comes down to the fact that you are playing a bad card to make others better, and that's not where you want to be.
Aside from that, what if we went mono green and played Prismatic Omen along with Vernal Bloom for our kill? It's way more out there but doesn't give other decks mana.. Just a thought.
I've also been testing the RUG version a lot, I think I have a list I like but I still want another day or two before I post it. I have been toying with GIft's Ungiven packages for it, but none seem to be very "easy".
I was also thinking about a black splash in the deck so discard and Null Profusion for ease of going off. Black really has a lot to offer I think, I may have to add another colour splash section. But got now I am liking the Red too.
Yeah, the refuge could be useful for casting the things without flash like a Heartbeat, but you have to also factor in the cost of it and see it its worth it. For example, casting a Heartbeat with flash will be 1UG from the refuge and 2G for the spell, so at this point you are paying 6 mana instead of 5 when you could cast a Dictate. The other problem is untapping the land, since only Reality Spasm could untap it. I think it's worth consideration for sure but it would have to be in a different kind if list. I have been looking at one kind of list that focuses more on Reality Spasm and nonbasic lands but that's for a later date.
Ok, so because I keep discovering new amazing cards I keep putting off the final version of the RUG list. But I think this one is worth it. The new revolutionary card is... Mirror Sheen!!!
Basically this lets us go infinite, a lot. There are a couple of infinite combos that we can already do with this deck and these are all assuming that there isn't a Dictate or Heartbeat in play:
You can find the rest of the cards that create combos with this link.
So as you can see all of them require a lot of mana, which this deck can do, but they also require creatures which are susceptible to Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Abrupt Decay, Electrolyze, Flame Slash, etc... What Mirror Sheen allows us to do is play it on turn 3, and then wait it out until we combo. We can technically combo off and get infinite mana on only 4 lands by playing Mirror Sheen + Early Harvest. Even after all of that it is still a mono blue card. It can work in the RUG shell, but it works just as well in the UG shell so there are no drastic changes needed in the deck to accommodate it.
One problem that arises is what do we do with infinite mana and no cards to use it? This comes into play with all of the search effects our deck has, like Merchant Scroll and Mystical Teachings which can grab basically anything we need. We also have all of the dig in our hands in the form of Serum Visions, Telling Time, and Sleight of Hand which can go looking for a tutor spell. If for some reason we only have a bit of mana, Mirror Sheen can copy a Blue Sun's Zenith meaning that for 3 less mana on the X, we can double it. This is the difference between drawing 15 cards and 24, but it really doesn't matter when we have infinite mana.
This card is only truly weak to Abrupt Decay (which can be fixed by Faith's Shield), but it opens up so many possibilities for the deck. It is another direction to take because there would be no need to play any manadoublers since you can combo off on 4 lands. This would replace those slots as a 4 of, and allow the deck to play a more controlling route without fear of needing to assemble 4-5 cards in hand in order to combo off and then still have a small chance to fizzle out.
Let me know what your thoughts are on this card, and if it could be what gives the deck a big push. I personally think that it has hope and I am looking into lists that could be running it.
Fantastic find, I think this is what's going to push this deck that much higher. With turn 4 infinite arbitrarily large amount of mana potential and a whole lot of testing to get the ratios right this deck might get there
While I love the different options, I still think that if youre playing against an aggressive meta that most of these strategies will not work. Most of these are answered by either Lightning Bolt or Abrupt Decay. Most of these situations require a decent amount of setting up, so assuming your opponent will let you live long enough to set up is just wishful thinking. Ive found that if you cant win by turn 5 youre basically dead. Hand disruption, creature decks (except Pod is a good matchup for us), most blue decks and almost all BG/x decks will have a fun time wrecking most of these strategies.
As much as I love this deck, I think that a very basic shell is good. UG is the best for the deck. I personally think anymore is a bad idea. If your meta is a lot more combo, laid back, not trying to kill you then you can sure play around with the deck. But after seeing the last modern GP and my own personal experiences at FNM, the deck wont ever get first place or likely wont place. Aggressive decks, disruptive decks, and control decks have fun beating us easily. Our only really good matchups are against combo decks and slow/set up decks like Tron and Storm.
Ive played this deck a lot and ive never enjoyed a deck more than this deck, but with my meta being the way it is, and with the format being the way it currently is, I don't think this deck is viable anymore.
If the meta shifts to a more Storm/non interactive combo kind of a meta then this is a golden deck. But as long as midrange strategies like 3 flavors of The Rock, Twin, Zoo, Affinity and Burn exist I feel this deck just cant compete.
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U Tron GW Bogles RG Loam UR Blue Breach RBU Grixis Goryo BRU Grixis Delver GBR Jund GBW Junk
While I love the different options, I still think that if youre playing against an aggressive meta that most of these strategies will not work. Most of these are answered by either Lightning Bolt or Abrupt Decay. Most of these situations require a decent amount of setting up, so assuming your opponent will let you live long enough to set up is just wishful thinking. Ive found that if you cant win by turn 5 youre basically dead. Hand disruption, creature decks (except Pod is a good matchup for us), most blue decks and almost all BG/x decks will have a fun time wrecking most of these strategies.
As much as I love this deck, I think that a very basic shell is good. UG is the best for the deck. I personally think anymore is a bad idea. If your meta is a lot more combo, laid back, not trying to kill you then you can sure play around with the deck. But after seeing the last modern GP and my own personal experiences at FNM, the deck wont ever get first place or likely wont place. Aggressive decks, disruptive decks, and control decks have fun beating us easily. Our only really good matchups are against combo decks and slow/set up decks like Tron and Storm.
Ive played this deck a lot and ive never enjoyed a deck more than this deck, but with my meta being the way it is, and with the format being the way it currently is, I don't think this deck is viable anymore.
If the meta shifts to a more Storm/non interactive combo kind of a meta then this is a golden deck. But as long as midrange strategies like 3 flavors of The Rock, Twin, Zoo, Affinity and Burn exist I feel this deck just cant compete.
Not winning by turn 5 and loosing isn't anything new... welcome to Modern. That is why I have been trying everything I can to get it to a turn 4 combo deck, or take the Scapashift route and play countermagic to stall long enough until you can combo out.
The deck was never really viable, you realise that right? It's still in the alpha-beta stages, with the only results being me taking it out for a Modern event 4 times and you playing your brew once. It has a lot of things to be worked out and that is why you keep brewing until it is as good as it can be.
Lastly my RUG version is geared towards doing exactly what we are bad against; dealing with the 3 flavors of The Rock, Twin, Zoo, and Affinity. It has the burn and removal needed to get their threats off the field, and it isn't that hard to find some good lifegain to stop burn. Dawnglow Infusion, Nourishing Shoal, Obstinate Baloth, Platinum Emperion, and Sunspring Expedition are all decent options.
The thing is that you don't have to play the deck all the time, but work on it and get it to the point where it can be played in any meta. Right now we just need exposure and more people brewing.
I love Sleight of Hand but setting up the next draw can be a big difference. Both have their ups and downs. 1 thing I cant understand is the cutting of Telling Time. Its by far my favorite card in the deck. I will always run 4.
I am running 3 Remand and no other hard counter besides a Swan Song in the main. Most of the time it is a Time Walk that cantrips. I love it.
I run 1 Bound // Determined in the main so I can get it with a Merchant Scroll before going off. Even against decks that don't run counter spells it basically just cycles for 2 mana. Venser seems great, haven't tested him yet. Seems good against creature decks. Gaea's Blessing I have in my sideboard as a 1 of. I like it but I wanna make it fit in my main. The fact that it can recycle our Early Harvests is HUGE. The only reason I ran Time Reversal was because it would bring all the Harvests back and this is better, cheaper and doesn't have the draw back of a potential bad draw. I have tested Condescend but it seems ok. If youre on the play it seems really good but against a control deck or being on the draw it doesn't seem as good.
On a side note, I love your list right now. It looks really toolboxy and versatile.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
It is better when you are comboing. You don't really care about setting up draws, just getting the right cards. Serum Visions is better at getting to the combo, then ok while comboing. Sleight of Hand is better during the combo, but worse than SV other times. Still trying to find a good split I like.
What do you do when you resolve some mana thing, and they Cryptic your Early Harvest? You Remand it so they can cast it again? What if they counter your Merchant scroll trying to find Determined, you Remand it and they cast it again? It is ok during turns 2-3, but you have to versatile past that.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
However in these hypothetical situations, if they counter the Early Harvest I will either have to answer it or let it be countered obviously. But ive run into situations mid-combo where I will hold priority after casting a spell and Remand it just to get the card draw. And a few of those times it has saved me as opposed to Swan Song'ing a Cryptic Command that would be dead in hand against 90%+ of the meta I play in.
PS. There were also 2 Delver decks I forgot to mention but they only run Remands and Spell Pierce in their mainboard but I haven't seen them around in almost 2 months.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
EDIT: Forgot to mention that a fun interaction is Sigil Tracer + Snapcaster Mage + Reality Spasm where X=3 gives infinant mana.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Doubling Cube may not be so terrible since it can be untapped with Reality Spasm and it can't be killed as easily as Magus of the Candle.
Also I think im going to run some Muddle the Mixture, something like a 1/1 split in the main/side. If its a dead card against a non-blue deck it can transmute for something like Snapcaster, Sakura, Telling Time, Gaea's Blessing, Merchant Scroll, Remand, Snapback, or Determined. It might be worse than a Twincast but Twincast seems really situational when having a tutor could be better. I mean, say you Blue Sun'd yourself and youre down to a Twincast, some lands and some Tribe-Elders or Search for Tomorrow. Using it to tutor for a Snapcaster, then Snap an Early Harvest seems better than copying a draw spell.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
BSZ with 10 mana in the pool wont get you anything extra, you could draw 4 or twin cast drawing 2.
BSZ with 23 mana in the pool would get you 30 cards? Thats a bit better.
BSZ with 25 mana gets you 40 cards? It would cut down on the number of times you have to get back early harvests or play extra dictates before un tapping. Definitely worth a shot.
Doubling cube would be 2-3 in the deck and fill the remaining for the set with reality spasm? Again you will need a decent amount in the pool to make it really worth it though.
10 floating, 3 to cube for 14, 6 to untap & activate gives you 16. Thats not very much for so much work.
20 floating, 17 becomes 34, which becomes 56. Thats about twice what you started with isn't bad but it is still probably easier to just cast early harvest then snap-caster it back.
Unless I'm missing something here.
So in my spare time I made a Gatherer search for every rare in modern that is G or U and splashed either R or W. The list of things I found from them that could work in the deck is kinda long. I'll update the primer with some of the ones I like more than others. My thoughts on each are below.
Cerebral Vortex: This think can be a finisher in the deck. We only have to have the opponent draw 18 cards then they die from this, probably even less from shocklands. If we really need to it can draw some cards for us aswell. More versatile than Grapeshot for sure.
Covenant of Minds: Just something I saw.
Increasing Confusion: Again another wincon. If it is flashbeacked we only need about 20 mana to win with this. Easy stuff and it works from the yard too.
Invoke the Firemind: This thing doubles as a in con and a 2 use BSZ. If we can get the deck consistent enough that 1 draw and 1 fireball is sufficient it could maybe work well.
Plasma Capture: This is an awesome counterspell that could kickstart our combo with some extra mana. The only problem is hoping that the opponent casts something...
Reiterate: This and Early Harvest and 9 mana go infinite. You need your lands to be producing 10 mana at a time, but bey thats turns 4-5 for us. It could work because it also acts as a counterspell if need be.
Wood Elves: A possible replacement for Steve. It costs 1 more, but leaves out curve open at 2 mana to always have a counter up. It also puts the land into play untpped which is slightly more useful, but not 100% needed.
Pulse of the Grid: This could be cool. Probably less pratical than BSZ, but it will always be in our hand. We could snake it up like have them draw 10, cast this until we draw up to 10, have them draw 10 more etc.... my guess is that it would be too much mana to make it work.
Natural Affinity: + a Pyroclasm or something along those lines? If there is a way to make it more one sided I think we could make it work. Like have the opponents bounce all their now creature-lands and then have an extra 3-4 turns while they replay them all. Combine it with Echoing Decay maybe? I think this idea has potentas as we could win with the lands. At the same time Rude Awakening sort-of combines both ideas we want.
I also want to add some of the above to the color splash sections and sidebaord options as well as Obstinate Baloth, Meddling Mage, and Pithing Needle from what I can remember off the top of my head.
The last thing is because I am so big on having every card in the deck do double duty as a combo piece and something else useful, I was really looking into the combo potential of Reality Spasm. I think it has a good possibilty to go infinite, but in a less clunky way than Sigil Tracer + Snapcaster Mage + Reality Spasm. There has to be something better than a Crab Umbra + Echo Mage + Early Harvest, or Echo Mage + Reality Spasm. I have a feeling that this deck won't ever have a infinite combo unless something really amazing is printed, but it can't hurt to look right?
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
- Untap all your lands at instant speed (Rude Awakening)
- Tap opponents lands on their upkeep (Time Walk)
- Tap opponents creatures before they attack (Fog)
- Untap your creatures to block (Like vigilance)
- Has the potential for infinite mana combos with a bunch of different cards
- Allows you to play nonbasic lands (THIS IS A BIG ONE)
Early Harvest can:
- Untap all your lands at instant speed (Rude Awakening)
So you can see that there are more applications for Reality Spasm, although it is not directly allowing us to combo off better, it helps us survive until we can. For example I played against RG Tron, and he had a turn 3 Tron with Karn in hand. I was able to Remand the Karn on turn 3, and then on his next upkeep I cast Reality Spasm tapping down his Tron lands. This gave me two turns of land drops and time to get a Dictate in my hand. On his next turn he cast the Karn so I let it resolve, and because I only had basics (and was a control deck) he took a card from my hand. I gave him a Swan Song and then played the Dictate on his end step and went on to win. From what I could tell the Reality Spasm saved me in the game because he had a O-stone in his hand and he couldn't have known to cast it, but because of the Spasm I delayed him long enough to win.
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Snapcaster Mage
Enchantments
2 Dictate of Karametra
2 Heartbeat of Spring
Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
7 Forest
8 Island
Sorceries
4 Serum Visions
2 Merchant Scroll
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Telling Time
2 Mystical Teachings
4 Remand
1 Cryptic Command
2 Condescend
4 Early Harvest
2 Reality Spasm
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Bound // Determined
2 Dismember
2 Squelch
2 Swan Song
2 Nature's Claim
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Plains
Basically I think I have played each matchup enough and come to the conclusions:
- We have good or pretty even matchups vs. Tron, Pod, Bogles, Storm, Burn (w/ Leylines), and like most of the other decks in Established
- We have iffy matchups vs Twin, UWR Control, Scapeshift, BW Tokens, Ad Nauseam
- We auto-loose to Jund, BG Rock, Loam Variants, Affinity, Zoo (most times), 8 Rack, and any other really aggro decks or ones that pack a lot of discard.
I really want to be better vs aggro, so I am going to seriously going to look into a red splash for the deck. It will stop aggro and give us an out to the Goyf menace. We will have an out in the form of burn. I'll also look into how we can use Reality Spasm and friends to their maximum effectivenesses to reduce the strain on the manabase. Like what if we used Utopia Sprawl on a couple basic lands that we tutor up, like 6 of them. Then we can have 5 other nonbasics and fetches or something. We could have a smaller combo package by using Gifts or more transmute effects, or go all out like UR Storm. Use Thought Scour to fill our yard and then use Past in Flames. I will be brewing over the weekend, but I also don't want the deck to turn into something it's not (aka Storm, or Gifts, or Scapeshift). Anyways, hopefully big update sometime this weekend with some new ideas of mine. I am looking hopeful for playing a RUG version of this.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I too have been really enjoying Reality Spasm and after testing I have found that while it is good for all the reasons you gave, and because it untaps more than basics, I still feel that leaving 3 mana up for an Early Harvest has saved me more than being able to untap 1 land for the same cost with Spasm. That said, I love the card and I will be running it as a 3 of in my list (2 in the main 1 in the side) because while it is good if things go wrong or we need to buy time, unless we are in an ALREADY winning position during the combo it can either be dead or a worse Early Harvest. There have been games against Zoo im forced to go off on turn 5 or die to kittys. And on turn 5 ive often produced a large amount of mana and had to Blue Sun myself to refuel my combo but ive always left 3 mana open so I can draw an Early Harvest or in a worst case scenario I leave 5 mana open to Snapcaster an Early Harvest. With that same amount of mana, im either untapped 1 or 3 of my (at minimum) 5 lands in a crucial part of the combo turn. Where as for 3 mana (or Snapcaster/Drift for one) can save me much more reliably.
PS: Most games I end up using it as a Time Walk in the early turns. I mean, turns 2-5 a Remand and a Reality Spasm are both basically Time Walks against the right deck.
PPS: The matchups you described are basically perfect, except Burn is a ***** matchup without Leylines (which I assumed I wouldn't be facing a lot of burn but who knew budget/new players like burn so much.)
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
I've also found a RUG list that I am liking, so I'll play a couple more games with it today and then post with what I have and some thoughts on it.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
The reason for not going down that route is that the deck is extremely compact. It is like Storm in the sense that it needs all the cards it can get to help make comboing easier. For every card that doesn't help us combo that we add, it means that drawing it will make for a dead draw and potentially fizzle us, and this is the reasons for avoiding cards like Tooth and Nail, Enter the Infinite, and Omniscience if you can understand that reasoning. They give you a bias of "Oh, this card just won me the game" when the truth is that if you could have casted it, then you could have also just won the game.
That is not to say that the deck can't run them, it will however make it less consistent in generating the mana or tutoring for the cards we need. I have been working on a RUG version that I will post later tonight. It is still focused on the combo, but plays out a bit different than before and all of the cards are made to do double-duty of comboing and protecting our combo or being an alternate wincon.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
Aside from that, what if we went mono green and played Prismatic Omen along with Vernal Bloom for our kill? It's way more out there but doesn't give other decks mana.. Just a thought.
I've also been testing the RUG version a lot, I think I have a list I like but I still want another day or two before I post it. I have been toying with GIft's Ungiven packages for it, but none seem to be very "easy".
I was also thinking about a black splash in the deck so discard and Null Profusion for ease of going off. Black really has a lot to offer I think, I may have to add another colour splash section. But got now I am liking the Red too.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Basically this lets us go infinite, a lot. There are a couple of infinite combos that we can already do with this deck and these are all assuming that there isn't a Dictate or Heartbeat in play:
- Sigil Tracer + Snapcaster Mage + Early Harvest or Reality Spasm with X = 4
- Nivix Guildmage + Early Harvest or Reality Spasm with X = 5
- Mirari + Early Harvest or Rude Awakening or Reality Spasm with X = 4
- Reiterate with Buyback + Early Harvest or Rude Awakening or Reality Spasm with X = 7
You can find the rest of the cards that create combos with this link.
One problem that arises is what do we do with infinite mana and no cards to use it? This comes into play with all of the search effects our deck has, like Merchant Scroll and Mystical Teachings which can grab basically anything we need. We also have all of the dig in our hands in the form of Serum Visions, Telling Time, and Sleight of Hand which can go looking for a tutor spell. If for some reason we only have a bit of mana, Mirror Sheen can copy a Blue Sun's Zenith meaning that for 3 less mana on the X, we can double it. This is the difference between drawing 15 cards and 24, but it really doesn't matter when we have infinite mana.
The other thing Mirror Sheen provides is protection. It does this in the form of threatening to send some burn spells back at the opponent. It can redirect any targeted discard spells back at the opponent. If your Early Harvest or Blue Sun's Zenith is getting countered by a Cryptic Command then copy it again in response and continue to combo off.
This card is only truly weak to Abrupt Decay (which can be fixed by Faith's Shield), but it opens up so many possibilities for the deck. It is another direction to take because there would be no need to play any mana doublers since you can combo off on 4 lands. This would replace those slots as a 4 of, and allow the deck to play a more controlling route without fear of needing to assemble 4-5 cards in hand in order to combo off and then still have a small chance to fizzle out.
Let me know what your thoughts are on this card, and if it could be what gives the deck a big push. I personally think that it has hope and I am looking into lists that could be running it.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
infinitearbitrarily large amount of mana potential and a whole lot of testing to get the ratios right this deck might get thereAs much as I love this deck, I think that a very basic shell is good. UG is the best for the deck. I personally think anymore is a bad idea. If your meta is a lot more combo, laid back, not trying to kill you then you can sure play around with the deck. But after seeing the last modern GP and my own personal experiences at FNM, the deck wont ever get first place or likely wont place. Aggressive decks, disruptive decks, and control decks have fun beating us easily. Our only really good matchups are against combo decks and slow/set up decks like Tron and Storm.
Ive played this deck a lot and ive never enjoyed a deck more than this deck, but with my meta being the way it is, and with the format being the way it currently is, I don't think this deck is viable anymore.
If the meta shifts to a more Storm/non interactive combo kind of a meta then this is a golden deck. But as long as midrange strategies like 3 flavors of The Rock, Twin, Zoo, Affinity and Burn exist I feel this deck just cant compete.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
The deck was never really viable, you realise that right? It's still in the alpha-beta stages, with the only results being me taking it out for a Modern event 4 times and you playing your brew once. It has a lot of things to be worked out and that is why you keep brewing until it is as good as it can be.
Lastly my RUG version is geared towards doing exactly what we are bad against; dealing with the 3 flavors of The Rock, Twin, Zoo, and Affinity. It has the burn and removal needed to get their threats off the field, and it isn't that hard to find some good lifegain to stop burn. Dawnglow Infusion, Nourishing Shoal, Obstinate Baloth, Platinum Emperion, and Sunspring Expedition are all decent options.
The thing is that you don't have to play the deck all the time, but work on it and get it to the point where it can be played in any meta. Right now we just need exposure and more people brewing.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge