A cheaper costing win condition is fine if you feel like you need it in the deck. BSZ + R&D does a good job of winning through any strategy I've seen people try in the format though.
Coukd someone provide a non budgetized UG version of the deck
There isn't honestly a ton you can do to make the deck better. This is one of the few ones that works because of good cards in the common slot. I guess if you want Misty Rainforests are good to have to thin the deck (but Time Reversal just puts them back in and they will eventually be dead draws but good to have regardless). Snapcaster Mage is good for flashing back cards for their cheapest amount, but with Wildest Dreams doing a Nostalgic Dreams impression I'd say you may not even need it anymore. A typical list these days would look like:
Really the only thing you can change about the deck by throwing money at it is 2-3 Snapcaster Mage's in the mainboard replacing the 2 Wildest Dreams and 1 Mirror Sheen. The sideboard can add a single basic and then branch out into other colours for hate cards. If you're dying for ramp cards then Sakura Tribe Elder is the next best option but it can't draw cards like Edge of Autumn can. If you have other ideas of what could be added let me know. Aside from this the deck has stayed fairly constant. With each expansion something new comes along, so we're playing the long game here until it becomes good 50 years down the road.
Does Baral, Chief of Compliance have a slot in this deck? It seems like it could make the deck faster and more competitive.
It would probably make the deck better, but it is still very hard for this deck to go off without a mana-doubler. I thought about Jace's Sanctum before since it reduces costs and improves your digging but at 4 cmc it is just too much. Perhaps Baral could be combined with Heartbeat of Spring as a way to get just enough extra mana that you can play Heartbeat and combo off in the same turn but then you are looking at 2 cards as opposed to 1. The biggest problem though is that it turns on the opponents removal. Normally their Lightning Bolts, Fatal Pushes, and Path to Exiles are all dead cards and this would change that.
Truthfully I haven't tested it at all so maybe he's good, but I have strong doubts about it.
Coukd someone provide a non budgetized UG version of the deck
I'd guess that the most expensive list would be playing Bant with fetch lands and glittering wish. I don't have any of those cards on magic online which is why I've stuck with the blue green list. Play 3-4 glittering wish main deck and then all of your win conditions in the sideboard along with 4 Leyline of sanctity.
I'd have to play some games with it but I'd probably start with my GW list, then take out 4 forests for 4 windswept heath, 4 islands for 4 flooded strands, add in one basic plains, take out the mirror sheen (put it in the board), the R&D (put it in the board) and the BSZ for 3 glittering wish, you may be able to take out a bound/determined for a 4th wish but I'm not sure you need that many. for the sidebaord add a detentionsphere or bant charm, leyline, 1 BSZ, 1 Sphinx's rev, have 1 extra bound/determined maybe and then anything else you might want for a wishboard.
I jammed 2 reservoirs in my version of the deck, and I found myself winning via it much more instead of BSZ'ing my opponent. There's probably a better shell that focuses in the reservoir, but it works in this shell almost as a win more card.
Baral's expertise is just something I'm tossing around in my head, it will stall the opponent and drop a ramp spell (or Aetherflux Reservoir at best. I haven't picked any up yet, and as long as they stay cheap I'll grab some and play with them.
Baral himself is something I need to pick up since his price has dropped significantly from release. To play him the deck would need to play pretty differently, maybe with more counters and quickens to ramp EoT of your opponents
I jammed 2 reservoirs in my version of the deck, and I found myself winning via it much more instead of BSZ'ing my opponent. There's probably a better shell that focuses in the reservoir, but it works in this shell almost as a win more card.
Baral's expertise is just something I'm tossing around in my head, it will stall the opponent and drop a ramp spell (or Aetherflux Reservoir at best. I haven't picked any up yet, and as long as they stay cheap I'll grab some and play with them.
Baral himself is something I need to pick up since his price has dropped significantly from release. To play him the deck would need to play pretty differently, maybe with more counters and quickens to ramp EoT of your opponents
The deck isn't dead, it's just only ever really been LtGlitter an myself posting in here.
The biggest thing I've always advocated for in this deck is the flexibility in cards and ability to work as ramp and card draw, or one of those and something else useful as much as possible (ie: Blue Sun's Zenith is a win-condition and card draw. Determined is protection and card draw. Edge of Autumn is ramp and card draw. etc...). The other strength of the deck is how it plays no creatures (or only Sakura-Tribe Elder) so the opponents removal is all dead.
Baral's Expertise is a neat card. Perhaps playing it with Heartbeat of Spring is better since you basically Timewalk the opponent, but that would drastically change the deck. Aetherflux Reservoir is a neat card. It can gain us life needed to stay alive, but before you have a Dictate in play you are really only casting 1, maybe 2 spells a turn. Once you combo off it's not changing the fact that you're going to win, and what happens if you draw it instead of an Early Harvest or something? You'd just lose, which is why I wouldn't play it. Baral, Chief of Compliance is very good, but he would just soak up all of the opponents removal that was rotting in their hand. I also wouldn't look to use his second ability, only the mana reduction. It's just a Goblin Electromancer that you don't have to play R for and survives the odd Tarfire.
As for Ahmonket it looks like the set was bad overall..... which means it was GREAT for us!
- Censor: Counters stuff early or cantrips. It is proactive rather than reactive. For protecting ourselves Determined does both at the same time and better than Censor so I won't play it as of right now.
- Cryptic Servant/River Serpent: Random sideboard win-condition that the opponent can't kill because they sideboarded out all their removal game 2?
- Commit // Memory: This is an interesting card. It is a counterspell, it's a 'removal' spell, and it's a Time Reversal all in one card. Granted Time Reversal is a 5-mana-draw-7 and this is a 10-mana-draw-7 (unless discarded) but the flexibility of the card has me really intrigued. I guess it comes down to how often we need to panic-cast Time Reversal with only 8 mana floating.
- Haze of Pollen: I really like this card. It reminds me of Moment's Peace. We may not be able to use it twice, but it's still not dead during the combo turn and it helps us survive getting there.
- Spring // Mind: This is a great card. Ramps us and draws cards, exactly what the deck wants to do!
Overall the new cycling cards and split cards do what we want to be doing in the deck. They are all flexible and not dead either during or before the combo turn. This flexability comes at a price however, and they all cost ~1 mana more than their counterpart "original cards" do. Is this extra mana worth playing them? Right now I'm not sure, but at least a few copies have got to be worth it in the deck.
I'll be looking to try out Commit // Memory and Spring // Mind in the maindeck with Haze of Pollen, Dissenter's Deliverance, and River Serpent in the sideboard.
Hey guys, I am a long time high tide player in legacy and I am very interested in its modern counterpart here. I see a lot of brewing and wondered if I could make some suggestions myself.
I have to admit, that I didn't read the whole threat, so if my suggestion was already there just tell me please.
I think you may be aware of the instant version reset tide?!
Well my approach is that we play our combo at instant speed so a main part is to have Leyline of Anticipation in play so we are able to cast everything at instant speed.
This makes it possible to play the modern Timetwister: Day's Undoing
Which lets us play our deck over and over again for the win.
In theory it looks really nice, but I am not sure if this is going to work.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
It has been talked about before, and arguably it would be better to run Heartbeat of Spring, flash it EOT and untap with all of the benefits and give none to the opponent (thus taking away its greatest drawback). This kinda requires you to have Leyline of Anticipation in you starting hand every game. You can't really afford to take T3/T4 off to cast a do-nothing spell that doesn't directly advance our gameplan. Beyond that drawing the other 3 Leylines during the game could lead to a dead draw. Say if you really need an Early Harvest but draw Land, Leyline, Search for Tomorrow, or something similar off of an Telling Time. You really want to keep the core cards to a minimum, hence why we've been playing Dictate of Karametra this whole time. We've also looked into playing Quicken and things like Day's Undoing before but it's just too many things to get into hand at once while Time Reversal is only one card. Once you resolve a Dictate and get going mana isn't the problem, but it's resolving the Dictate before you die that is the problem.
Try out your idea though and see if you can get it to work. I'd love to hear if it has some merit!
Hi, thanks for the reply even when this was discussed before.
I know what you mean with the 4 leylines, you need 4 to reliably may have them in your opening hand but you don't want them during the turn you combo off.
The idea behind that is, that you may change the playstyle to that of reset tide instead of spiral tide. Even if you don't have leyline in play you could still combo off at instant speed after you have cast a day's undoing during your turn, because you have 7 new cards in hand and all spells to kill are at instant speed. Although it is a problem that you also give your opponent 7 new cards you can wait till you would lose and then go off before he kills you.
After every day's undoing you potentially thin out your deck with ramp cards(landthinning) and have much more business spells left in your library and you can just go infinite because of day's undoing.
Merchant scroll would also ensure to untap during the combo when you search for reality spasm.
But this is all just theory, I just have to test it out.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
If you want to combo out without a mana doubler effect (Heartbeat of Spring/Dictate of Karametra) I'm not really sure it can be done. Early Harvest just doesn't pull enough weight without it and a ton of lands in play.
At any other point you'd need at least 5 lands in play so you could play Heartbeat of Spring for 2G and then float 4 on the opponents turn to cast Early Harvest and begin to combo off. Is this better than getting 5 lands in play (all untapped btw) and then flashing in the Dictate at the end of the opponent's turn and untapping with 10 mana instead of burning your first Early Harvest to get things going?
I guess the tradeoff is being 1/2 a turn earlier to combo but needing more resources to do it. It does give you access to better cards though (Days Undoing > Time Reversal) but it means you are losing some of the best cards we have access to like Serum Visions, Sleight of Hand, Wildest Dreams. You'd rely on Quicken to cast Wildest Dreams probably. (Reality Spasm does the same thing but requires more mana and can't compare to a Wildest Dreams getting back 2-3 copies of Early Harvest)
I'd love to see the stats on this and the games won by comboing earlier vs games 1 by comboing more reliably.
Of course I want to use a doubler effect and we don't lose those very good cards you mentioned, we can only cast them at instant speed if we have Leyline of Anticipation.
Otherwise you still combo off as normal. I see that wildest dreams is a nice way to get early harvest back, but you can't search for it with Merchant Scroll when you need it. I can only tell from my expirience with high tide, sorry. These ideas were just a shoot from the hip and I don't have any data to back my theory up or deny it. Reality Spasm can also be used to delay your opponent by tapping their creatures or their lands EoT to play around counters. Merchant scroll is a powerhouse in legacy, because it fetches everything you need except for Time Spiral
Again all from a legaxy perspective. I know you have the better understanding for the modern deck here, I just wanted to bring in some thoughts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Guess what! I spent the last 3 days totally rewriting the primer from scratch and now the deck has a completely overhauled primer!
I know the deck doesn't get much attention, but for the few people who stick with this little project thank you as always! Check it out and give me any feedback you have.
Unfortunately it seems like this deck is pretty much dead, which is sad since I liked the deck.
I wouldn't say the deck is dead. The decks gotten to a point where it runs fine with the cards we have available and I think we've ended up testing almost everything thats been suggested in this thread. One big thing that comes up in the thread quite often is that people suggest an alt win-condition like Emerakul or fireball. One of the goals was to have a inefficient win condition in blue sun and posters that miss this point usually don't come back after their first comment. Another thing I think people miss with this deck is super cheap to build (under 3tix online), there may be more people out there who would build it if they saw that.
Hey guys, I am a long time high tide player in legacy and I am very interested in its modern counterpart here. I see a lot of brewing and wondered if I could make some suggestions myself.
I have to admit, that I didn't read the whole threat, so if my suggestion was already there just tell me please.
I think you may be aware of the instant version reset tide?!
Well my approach is that we play our combo at instant speed so a main part is to have Leyline of Anticipation in play so we are able to cast everything at instant speed.
This makes it possible to play the modern Timetwister: Day's Undoing
Which lets us play our deck over and over again for the win.
In theory it looks really nice, but I am not sure if this is going to work.
Playing 4 leylines could be fun. I'd be scared to play days undoing but if you are 100% trying to win on your opponents turn then its probably worth doing. Not really sure what you take out to include the leylines, maybe bound//determined? You could also probably go with heartbeat instead of dictate since you will need as many lands as possible.
Commit // Memory seems like a neat card that could replace time reversal since its pretty easy to throw cards into the graveyard off of the 3 cmc digging options this deck has.
Also it's very tempting to muddle this deck with a time walk deck. Similar shell, probably entirely different thread. My trial list had one Mountain and Past in Flames. Making it feel like a storm deck that just played big spells instead of lots of little ones.
First time posting on the thread but I've been watching it and testing my own lists for a little bit now. Originally made the Heartbeat Creature version of this deck using Drift of Phantasms as tutors for Heartbeat of Spring, Early Harvest to combo off, Blue Sun's Zenith to win as well as value target such as Eternal Witness. Although I ran into lots of issues with this version because my opponents first benefited from the doubled mana of Heartbeat before me I did see the power in having tutor for my combo pieces, which meant that in my testing I have almost never fizzled after casting a Time Reversal, assuming I piloted the deck properly and handled which color of mana to use in which order, because any of the four copies of the Drifts could be used to find any of my missing pieces. During my testing I was able to play against the mind behind the deck himself, Torpf! He gave me advice on my card choices and explained to me the advantage of playing the Dictate of Karametra Version vs the Heartbeat Version, as well as explaining the logic that every card in our deck should serve a dual purpose, either draw cards or ramp, preferably do both. With this in mind I went looking at a bunch of cards that could fit this category and I found a few cards that weren't mentioned in this primer or if they were they weren't as heavily explained as I had hoped. With this in mind here's some of the cards I've found with my ideas behind them. Hoping you guys could give your input on this subject and in the process maybe revive this thread a little lol.
So the first card i wanted to discuss was Reality Spasm, and why it's being removed for our current list. I get that it's not as efficient as Early Harvest but in a pinch it can somewhat do a bad imitation of it, as well as playing more copies of these effects can reduce the chance of fizzling post Time Reversal that Torpf had mentioned to me. Also I think Spasm can also be used to tap down blockers against aggro decks or tap down lands against control. This flexibility seems quite strong and fits the mentality of our cards serving dual purpose.
Another interesting enchantment that I found was Monastery Siege. This enchantment could maybe replace Leyline of Sanctity as a budget alternative but IMO also has value of its own rather then simply a budget replacement. I think this cheap enchantment can come down early and although it does not entirely stop targeted spells it heavily taxes our opponents resources, buying us time, as well as protecting our Dictate, Or Heartbeat (Depending of version. Do note that Drift of Phantasm Could tutor up Monastery Seige due to its CMC). I also think that the Monastery Seige is still useful if you draw multiples, allowing you to draw a discard and filtering through you hand to potentially replace useless extra lands we draw with action as well as eliminating the issue of use having a bunch of Leylines in our hands that we can't cast (Unless we play a post sideboard with white). Maybe this enchantment could be useful as a one or two of in the sideboard?
I have already discussed the use of having tutors for the combo so I wont repeat it but I do think this is a very strong ability to have. My main competitive modern deck is Ad Nauseam and I absolutely LOVE to play Mystical Teachings! Yes it's a bit slow but this instant speed tutor is amazing! In our deck it would be able to tutor up for a Harvest or a Dictate prior to comboing off, say on the end of our opponent's turn four so we can flash in Dictate at the end of his next turn, OR being able to tutor up BSZ for the win! I think this could bring a lot of value as maybe a one or two of in the deck but we wouldn't want too many of them as they are hefty on cost and a bit slow.
Pieces of the Puzzle was a very strong addition to this deck, allowing us to dig 5 deep and pick out 2 spells, making us be able to keep going mid combo for longer and not run out of steam as often. That said, it's not a perfect card, as it cannot grab a dictate. To this I thought of maybe using a 50/50 split between Pieces of the Puzzle and Forbidden Alchemy. Although the alchemy not only looks one less card deep and can only grab one card, it can grab a card of any type, as well as being able to use this at instant speed. (Which, if you also use the previously mentioned Mystical Teachings then you can tutor up the alchemy). I think being able to do more things at instant speed if a great ability to have and the fact that we could, in theory, leave up mana for a counter spell if useful. And even if we play very little of those effects, especially in Game 1, it's something our opponents need to respect, which could make them play a little bit more awkwardly then they would like rather then basically Goldfishing against us for the first few turns lol. But maybe this Instant speed mentality simply comes from me being used to Ad Nauseam which can combo off at instant speed.
Lastly I've always liked transformative sideboards, or at least partially. Once again in my personal Ad Nauseam list I like playing maybe one or two very strong, hard to remove, impact creatures that our opponents don't expect. Since like Ad Nauseam, we are a creatureless deck, it's likely that Post Game 1 our opponent will try to board our most of his removal as they are dead draws against us, and it's with this idea in mind that adding one or two strong ones in can really throw a curve ball at our opponents. One of these impactful creatures I used to run was Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. I really enjoy this card as it, like most of our other cards, would serve more then one purpose. Although a bit on the weaker side when it comes to stats, Teferi does have flash, allowing us to cast him at then end of our opponents turn, which, thanks to his ability, would allow us to combo off uninterrupted, similarly to Bound/Determined would. Also our opponents, had they left their removal in, couldn't even kill him in response to us casting him at the end of their turn as they would only be able to use their removal at Sorcery speed, not Instant speed like required to deal with him mid End Step. Also Teferi having flash means it could be tutored up by the already heavily mentioned Mystical Teachings, giving us access to a tutorable piece of combo protection, say we have every piece we need but are playing against a combo deck and simply need a way to protect us mid combo.
Now all the cards I've mentioned push the deck in a slightly different deckbuilding way, giving the deck a more Instant speed approach as well as a transformative sideboard option. But this last card, imo, truly could find a spot in the list but I worry that it cost just a tad too much. That card is Shefet Monitor. This overcosted Green lizard is not useful for us as a creature, rather it's his cycling ability that has me intrigued. For 3 Colorless and 1 Green you can discard him to tutor up for a basic land and put it on the battlefield, UNTAPPED might I add, as well as Drawing a card from the cycling ability itself. All of this at INSTANT SPEED! On its own it would be like us spending one more mana then hardcasting a Search for Tomorrow, which I'll admit, is never where we want to be, but for that additional mana we get to draw a card and play this instant speed! i worry that the four mana may just be too much, had this been at 2 Colorless and 1 Green we might have been able to make it work, but then that be beyond broken lol. That said the more I think this ability is just overcosted the more I just try to find a way to use it, it seems so potentially strong. Also it being a creature could maybe have us hard card them post Game 1 if we know our opponent sideboarded out his removal? Idk maybe it can work, its a 6/5 after all, it can eat up Tarmogoyf for days and kill most eldrazi, or at the very least trade with them, looking your way Reality Smasher. Again the use of it at instant speed could prove useful in a more instant speed focused build using some of the cards I've mentioned in this post. Say on turn four we can leave up mana to either counter something, tutor up a missing piece with Teachings, or simply ramp and draw with Shefet Monitor. It just seems like the flexibility all of this could give might help us.
Nevertheless, I've rambled on quite long enough I must say. Please take a look at my suggestions and give me your feedback as I'd love to know what you guys think of my ideas, whether they work or not. And if they don't work please explain to me why rather then say "We have better cards" or "Read primer".
Thanks guys!
Lets keep this deck going!
Great to hear there are people out there enjoying the deck! ill edit this in a bit with some actual discussion about your post comments.
Also it's very tempting to muddle this deck with a time walk deck. Similar shell, probably entirely different thread. My trial list had one Mountain and Past in Flames. Making it feel like a storm deck that just played big spells instead of lots of little ones.
Wildest Dreams is a pretty similar card that doesn't make you splash red. If you are going to play past in flames then you probably dont want time reversals since they don't play nice together. The thing this deck does well is playing a bunch of spells on the turn that it wins on. Casting time walks or playing howling mines isn't going to help with that and you will probably be better off playing the dedicated taking turns to make full use of those cards.
So the first card i wanted to discuss was Reality Spasm, and why it's being removed for our current list. I get that it's not as efficient as Early Harvest but in a pinch it can somewhat do a bad imitation of it, as well as playing more copies of these effects can reduce the chance of fizzling post Time Reversal that Torpf had mentioned to me. Also I think Spasm can also be used to tap down blockers against aggro decks or tap down lands against control. This flexibility seems quite strong and fits the mentality of our cards serving dual purpose.
Reality Spasm has really been replaced by Wildest Dreams because it just ramps better. Paying 6 mana to untap all your lands (which will be at least 5) is better than paying 6 mana to only untap 4 lands. The upside is that you can tap down opponents stuff to buy you a turn which is a corner case. Overall having more consistent and reliable methods of generating mana has pushed the card out of the deck.
Another interesting enchantment that I found was Monastery Siege. This enchantment could maybe replace Leyline of Sanctity as a budget alternative but IMO also has value of its own rather then simply a budget replacement. I think this cheap enchantment can come down early and although it does not entirely stop targeted spells it heavily taxes our opponents resources, buying us time, as well as protecting our Dictate, Or Heartbeat (Depending of version. Do note that Drift of Phantasm Could tutor up Monastery Seige due to its CMC). I also think that the Monastery Seige is still useful if you draw multiples, allowing you to draw a discard and filtering through you hand to potentially replace useless extra lands we draw with action as well as eliminating the issue of use having a bunch of Leylines in our hands that we can't cast (Unless we play a post sideboard with white). Maybe this enchantment could be useful as a one or two of in the sideboard?
Monastery Siege is a pretty neat card! The first ability isn't super impressive as we should only be getting 2 maybe 3 triggers off of it, but the second one has some hope. It slows both discard and burn down enough. I don;t think protecting Dictates can be considered because you will double the opponents mana too, so paying that 2 won't be a problem for them. It's a neat card, but for my purposes I'd rather play Leyline of Sanctity and mulligan for it to completely shut down matchups.
I have already discussed the use of having tutors for the combo so I wont repeat it but I do think this is a very strong ability to have. My main competitive modern deck is Ad Nauseam and I absolutely LOVE to play Mystical Teachings! Yes it's a bit slow but this instant speed tutor is amazing! In our deck it would be able to tutor up for a Harvest or a Dictate prior to comboing off, say on the end of our opponent's turn four so we can flash in Dictate at the end of his next turn, OR being able to tutor up BSZ for the win! I think this could bring a lot of value as maybe a one or two of in the deck but we wouldn't want too many of them as they are hefty on cost and a bit slow.
We tried Mystical Teachings way way back, try searching the thread for the exact pages. It was very useful, but it moves the entire combo back a turn so it turned out to just be too slow.
Pieces of the Puzzle was a very strong addition to this deck, allowing us to dig 5 deep and pick out 2 spells, making us be able to keep going mid combo for longer and not run out of steam as often. That said, it's not a perfect card, as it cannot grab a dictate. To this I thought of maybe using a 50/50 split between Pieces of the Puzzle and Forbidden Alchemy. Although the alchemy not only looks one less card deep and can only grab one card, it can grab a card of any type, as well as being able to use this at instant speed. (Which, if you also use the previously mentioned Mystical Teachings then you can tutor up the alchemy). I think being able to do more things at instant speed if a great ability to have and the fact that we could, in theory, leave up mana for a counter spell if useful. And even if we play very little of those effects, especially in Game 1, it's something our opponents need to respect, which could make them play a little bit more awkwardly then they would like rather then basically Goldfishing against us for the first few turns lol. But maybe this Instant speed mentality simply comes from me being used to Ad Nauseam which can combo off at instant speed.
I'd play more copies of a 2 mana draw like Anticipate or Telling Time before playing Forbidden Alchemy if you are looking to be able to grab anything. I would play it in a version running some Commit // Memory in the place of Time Reversal as a way to get it into the yard and cast Memory.
Lastly I've always liked transformative sideboards, or at least partially. Once again in my personal Ad Nauseam list I like playing maybe one or two very strong, hard to remove, impact creatures that our opponents don't expect. Since like Ad Nauseam, we are a creatureless deck, it's likely that Post Game 1 our opponent will try to board our most of his removal as they are dead draws against us, and it's with this idea in mind that adding one or two strong ones in can really throw a curve ball at our opponents. One of these impactful creatures I used to run was Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. I really enjoy this card as it, like most of our other cards, would serve more then one purpose. Although a bit on the weaker side when it comes to stats, Teferi does have flash, allowing us to cast him at then end of our opponents turn, which, thanks to his ability, would allow us to combo off uninterrupted, similarly to Bound/Determined would. Also our opponents, had they left their removal in, couldn't even kill him in response to us casting him at the end of their turn as they would only be able to use their removal at Sorcery speed, not Instant speed like required to deal with him mid End Step. Also Teferi having flash means it could be tutored up by the already heavily mentioned Mystical Teachings, giving us access to a tutorable piece of combo protection, say we have every piece we need but are playing against a combo deck and simply need a way to protect us mid combo.
Teferi is a neat idea. If you only have one though is there a way to reliably play it without committing to Mystical Teachings? Why not just play Silence? I could see a shell with Him to remove the downside of Heartbeat being a thing, but then you're just adding more pieces to the deck.
Now all the cards I've mentioned push the deck in a slightly different deckbuilding way, giving the deck a more Instant speed approach as well as a transformative sideboard option. But this last card, imo, truly could find a spot in the list but I worry that it cost just a tad too much. That card is Shefet Monitor. This overcosted Green lizard is not useful for us as a creature, rather it's his cycling ability that has me intrigued. For 3 Colorless and 1 Green you can discard him to tutor up for a basic land and put it on the battlefield, UNTAPPED might I add, as well as Drawing a card from the cycling ability itself. All of this at INSTANT SPEED! On its own it would be like us spending one more mana then hardcasting a Search for Tomorrow, which I'll admit, is never where we want to be, but for that additional mana we get to draw a card and play this instant speed! i worry that the four mana may just be too much, had this been at 2 Colorless and 1 Green we might have been able to make it work, but then that be beyond broken lol. That said the more I think this ability is just overcosted the more I just try to find a way to use it, it seems so potentially strong. Also it being a creature could maybe have us hard card them post Game 1 if we know our opponent sideboarded out his removal? Idk maybe it can work, its a 6/5 after all, it can eat up Tarmogoyf for days and kill most eldrazi, or at the very least trade with them, looking your way Reality Smasher. Again the use of it at instant speed could prove useful in a more instant speed focused build using some of the cards I've mentioned in this post. Say on turn four we can leave up mana to either counter something, tutor up a missing piece with Teachings, or simply ramp and draw with Shefet Monitor. It just seems like the flexibility all of this could give might help us.
I took a second look at this card when I was cracking packs at the GP and it seemed pretty reasonable actually. it does cost just a bit much for my liking though, and I feel like if you are getting to 6 mana to cast it you probably should have won. I like the card though and think it will be a good one to have in the back pocket in case it ever becomes relevant.
I played some matches now on mtgo and it is obvious, that the leyline route is not good. It can be fun, to have it in the opening hand but that's it. It does just nothing for the deck.
Played against a similar deck which played Vernal Bloom and Heartbeat of spring, it had early harvest and Rude Awakening to untap and played draw spells like Harmonize and Urban Evolution.
But the card which impressed me the most was Seasons Past!
The card helps mid combo and it gets your business cards back and it helps with consistency.
I don't have the Seasons Past yet but I will try it out.
I will edit my current decklist to this post when I am at home.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
So, is the sample deck supposed to have 61 cards in it? Thinking about picking this up as a fun deck to play on the side when I'm tired of competitive decks.
Some of the choices I made:
I had some games where the discard Dictate and Surgical Extraction it was a common play and you just lose, so I wanted a Heartbeat of Spring.Harmonize helps midcombo to not fizzle or after a Time reversal. My kill conditions are obviously Emrakul, BSZ and Aetherflux Reservoir, which is a very good addition even if you draw it midcombo it counts all the spells you cast in the round so it is very easy to kill with it. Coax from the Blind Eternities is Emrakul #2 and could be searched with Merchant scroll, but I saw how expensive the card is and dropped it =(
I was also surprised, how good the more green centric version I played against worked, I even thought it could be a very good way to be faster than with dictate of Karametra because Vernal Bloom is only bad against green decks. What do u think?
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I played some matches now on mtgo and it is obvious, that the leyline route is not good. It can be fun, to have it in the opening hand but that's it. It does just nothing for the deck.
Played against a similar deck which played Vernal Bloom and Heartbeat of spring, it had early harvest and Rude Awakening to untap and played draw spells like Harmonize and Urban Evolution.
But the card which impressed me the most was Seasons Past!
The card helps mid combo and it gets your business cards back and it helps with consistency.
I don't have the Seasons Past yet but I will try it out.
I will edit my current decklist to this post when I am at home.
Leylines mean you don't auto-lose to burn or discard. In matchups which are heavily against us you have to mull to a Leyline. What is your plan to stop burn or Discard? A few lifegain spells will be met by Atarka's Command or Skullcrack and Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek ruin us. As for the monogreen version, it was talked about a long time ago as this deck after Travis Woo found a deck that went 4-0 online. We've thought about Seasons Past before, and also Praetor's Counsel but they've just never been needed that much. Chaining draw spells together has always been enough. If you think it is worth it I can see playing 1.
So, is the sample deck supposed to have 61 cards in it? Thinking about picking this up as a fun deck to play on the side when I'm tired of competitive decks.
Some of the choices I made:
I had some games where the discard Dictate and Surgical Extraction it was a common play and you just lose, so I wanted a Heartbeat of Spring.Harmonize helps midcombo to not fizzle or after a Time reversal. My kill conditions are obviously Emrakul, BSZ and Aetherflux Reservoir, which is a very good addition even if you draw it midcombo it counts all the spells you cast in the round so it is very easy to kill with it. Coax from the Blind Eternities is Emrakul #2 and could be searched with Merchant scroll, but I saw how expensive the card is and dropped it =(
I was also surprised, how good the more green centric version I played against worked, I even thought it could be a very good way to be faster than with dictate of Karametra because Vernal Bloom is only bad against green decks. What do u think?
With you reason for wanting a Heartbeat of Spring, why not just put a Dictate in the sideboard if you are getting hit with Surgical Extraction postboard and then grab it with Research // Development later? Having one to bring in isn't the worst idea though.
Why are you playing Harmonize instead of more potent things like Pieces of the Puzzle which gets you exactly what you need mid combo and not three random things. There are too many things you can just blindly draw that will have you fizzle out. Having card selection is key because you are ultimately digging for Early Harvest and ways to reoccur it then once you have enough mana you have to dig for Blue Sun's Zenith, which brings me to the next point.
You winconditions are Emrakul, Coax from the Blind Eternity, 3 Aetherflux Reservoir, and Blue Sun's Zenith. BSZ can already win the game and help you combo off, meaning that you have 5 extra dead cards in your deck. What happens when you are digging to find an untap spell because you are short on mana and you draw into any of these 5 cards? You will just lose the game. What happens when you are trying to ramp early game and dig to find a manadoubler but draw one of these cards? They are going to sit in your hand and do nothing until you directly win which BSZ could do just as well. Basically they aren't changing the outcome of the game - you will sill win, but they are changing your likelihood to get there. Playing dedicated wincons isn't great as the deck is already fragile and it really needs all the help it can get. And half the point of the deck is to take 20 minute turns figuring out how to get a win!
The green version fails at falling apart once it's main gameplan doesn't work out. It is faster for sure, but can't recover from removal, counterspells, or not drawing well. With Blue we can smooth out our draws and get specific cards to help sculpt our hand. We can protect against counters, avoid removal, and recover from hate with our drawing power. The monogreen version basically hopes the opponent doesn't interact at all from my experience.
---
Also I updated the history section of the primer so I guess it is 100% done now!
@torpf
The list with vernal bloom was no monogreen list, it still played blue but it was more green oriented with harmonize and such.
It would have helped to write my sideboard down so you can see what my answers against burn and discard are.
Basically I play leyline and Monastery siege in the sideboard some bounce spells and more bound/determined to fight against counters.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
@torpf
The list with vernal bloom was no monogreen list, it still played blue but it was more green oriented with harmonize and such.
It would have helped to write my sideboard down so you can see what my answers against burn and discard are.
Basically I play leyline and Monastery siege in the sideboard some bounce spells and more bound/determined to fight against counters.
If you are going to play vernal bloom then add fetch lands + breeding pool as your blue sources.
can I get a current working (UG) list? I started putting this deck together a long while ago, and stopped when early harvest wasn't immediately available, but I have some free time in my life right now so I wanted to branch back down the obscure combo builds again for a bit.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
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4 Serum Visions
4 Telling Time
4 Pieces of the Puzzle
4 Time Reversal
Ramp
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Search for Tomorrow
Win/Utility
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
4 Early Harvest
2 Wildest Dreams
4 Dictate of Karametra
4 Bound // Determined
1 Research // Development
Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
6 Island
6 Forest
4 Fog
4 Devastation Tide
2 Negate
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
2 Sun Droplet
2 Natural State
Or an alternate sideboard could look like
3 Negate
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Plains
3 Stony Silence
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Grafdigger's Cage
Really the only thing you can change about the deck by throwing money at it is 2-3 Snapcaster Mage's in the mainboard replacing the 2 Wildest Dreams and 1 Mirror Sheen. The sideboard can add a single basic and then branch out into other colours for hate cards. If you're dying for ramp cards then Sakura Tribe Elder is the next best option but it can't draw cards like Edge of Autumn can. If you have other ideas of what could be added let me know. Aside from this the deck has stayed fairly constant. With each expansion something new comes along, so we're playing the long game here until it becomes good 50 years down the road.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Truthfully I haven't tested it at all so maybe he's good, but I have strong doubts about it.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I'd guess that the most expensive list would be playing Bant with fetch lands and glittering wish. I don't have any of those cards on magic online which is why I've stuck with the blue green list. Play 3-4 glittering wish main deck and then all of your win conditions in the sideboard along with 4 Leyline of sanctity.
I'd have to play some games with it but I'd probably start with my GW list, then take out 4 forests for 4 windswept heath, 4 islands for 4 flooded strands, add in one basic plains, take out the mirror sheen (put it in the board), the R&D (put it in the board) and the BSZ for 3 glittering wish, you may be able to take out a bound/determined for a 4th wish but I'm not sure you need that many. for the sidebaord add a detentionsphere or bant charm, leyline, 1 BSZ, 1 Sphinx's rev, have 1 extra bound/determined maybe and then anything else you might want for a wishboard.
I jammed 2 reservoirs in my version of the deck, and I found myself winning via it much more instead of BSZ'ing my opponent. There's probably a better shell that focuses in the reservoir, but it works in this shell almost as a win more card.
Baral's expertise is just something I'm tossing around in my head, it will stall the opponent and drop a ramp spell (or Aetherflux Reservoir at best. I haven't picked any up yet, and as long as they stay cheap I'll grab some and play with them.
Baral himself is something I need to pick up since his price has dropped significantly from release. To play him the deck would need to play pretty differently, maybe with more counters and quickens to ramp EoT of your opponents
Like 14 decks
Knightfall WURG
The biggest thing I've always advocated for in this deck is the flexibility in cards and ability to work as ramp and card draw, or one of those and something else useful as much as possible (ie: Blue Sun's Zenith is a win-condition and card draw. Determined is protection and card draw. Edge of Autumn is ramp and card draw. etc...). The other strength of the deck is how it plays no creatures (or only Sakura-Tribe Elder) so the opponents removal is all dead.
Baral's Expertise is a neat card. Perhaps playing it with Heartbeat of Spring is better since you basically Timewalk the opponent, but that would drastically change the deck. Aetherflux Reservoir is a neat card. It can gain us life needed to stay alive, but before you have a Dictate in play you are really only casting 1, maybe 2 spells a turn. Once you combo off it's not changing the fact that you're going to win, and what happens if you draw it instead of an Early Harvest or something? You'd just lose, which is why I wouldn't play it. Baral, Chief of Compliance is very good, but he would just soak up all of the opponents removal that was rotting in their hand. I also wouldn't look to use his second ability, only the mana reduction. It's just a Goblin Electromancer that you don't have to play R for and survives the odd Tarfire.
As for Ahmonket it looks like the set was bad overall..... which means it was GREAT for us!
- Censor: Counters stuff early or cantrips. It is proactive rather than reactive. For protecting ourselves Determined does both at the same time and better than Censor so I won't play it as of right now.
- Cryptic Servant/River Serpent: Random sideboard win-condition that the opponent can't kill because they sideboarded out all their removal game 2?
- Hieroglyphic Illumination can be cycled early or cast later when we have an abundance of mana. Still worse than 1 mana draw spells like Serum Visions or Sleight of Hand I'd say.
- Pull from Tomorrow: Still worse than Blue Sun's Zenith.
- Commit // Memory: This is an interesting card. It is a counterspell, it's a 'removal' spell, and it's a Time Reversal all in one card. Granted Time Reversal is a 5-mana-draw-7 and this is a 10-mana-draw-7 (unless discarded) but the flexibility of the card has me really intrigued. I guess it comes down to how often we need to panic-cast Time Reversal with only 8 mana floating.
- Dissenter's Deliverance: Sideboard material.
- Haze of Pollen: I really like this card. It reminds me of Moment's Peace. We may not be able to use it twice, but it's still not dead during the combo turn and it helps us survive getting there.
- Spring // Mind: This is a great card. Ramps us and draws cards, exactly what the deck wants to do!
Overall the new cycling cards and split cards do what we want to be doing in the deck. They are all flexible and not dead either during or before the combo turn. This flexability comes at a price however, and they all cost ~1 mana more than their counterpart "original cards" do. Is this extra mana worth playing them? Right now I'm not sure, but at least a few copies have got to be worth it in the deck.
I'll be looking to try out Commit // Memory and Spring // Mind in the maindeck with Haze of Pollen, Dissenter's Deliverance, and River Serpent in the sideboard.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I have to admit, that I didn't read the whole threat, so if my suggestion was already there just tell me please.
I think you may be aware of the instant version reset tide?!
Well my approach is that we play our combo at instant speed so a main part is to have Leyline of Anticipation in play so we are able to cast everything at instant speed.
This makes it possible to play the modern Timetwister: Day's Undoing
Which lets us play our deck over and over again for the win.
In theory it looks really nice, but I am not sure if this is going to work.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Try out your idea though and see if you can get it to work. I'd love to hear if it has some merit!
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I know what you mean with the 4 leylines, you need 4 to reliably may have them in your opening hand but you don't want them during the turn you combo off.
The idea behind that is, that you may change the playstyle to that of reset tide instead of spiral tide. Even if you don't have leyline in play you could still combo off at instant speed after you have cast a day's undoing during your turn, because you have 7 new cards in hand and all spells to kill are at instant speed. Although it is a problem that you also give your opponent 7 new cards you can wait till you would lose and then go off before he kills you.
After every day's undoing you potentially thin out your deck with ramp cards(landthinning) and have much more business spells left in your library and you can just go infinite because of day's undoing.
Merchant scroll would also ensure to untap during the combo when you search for reality spasm.
But this is all just theory, I just have to test it out.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
At any other point you'd need at least 5 lands in play so you could play Heartbeat of Spring for 2G and then float 4 on the opponents turn to cast Early Harvest and begin to combo off. Is this better than getting 5 lands in play (all untapped btw) and then flashing in the Dictate at the end of the opponent's turn and untapping with 10 mana instead of burning your first Early Harvest to get things going?
I guess the tradeoff is being 1/2 a turn earlier to combo but needing more resources to do it. It does give you access to better cards though (Days Undoing > Time Reversal) but it means you are losing some of the best cards we have access to like Serum Visions, Sleight of Hand, Wildest Dreams. You'd rely on Quicken to cast Wildest Dreams probably. (Reality Spasm does the same thing but requires more mana and can't compare to a Wildest Dreams getting back 2-3 copies of Early Harvest)
I'd love to see the stats on this and the games won by comboing earlier vs games 1 by comboing more reliably.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Otherwise you still combo off as normal. I see that wildest dreams is a nice way to get early harvest back, but you can't search for it with Merchant Scroll when you need it. I can only tell from my expirience with high tide, sorry. These ideas were just a shoot from the hip and I don't have any data to back my theory up or deny it. Reality Spasm can also be used to delay your opponent by tapping their creatures or their lands EoT to play around counters. Merchant scroll is a powerhouse in legacy, because it fetches everything you need except for Time Spiral
Again all from a legaxy perspective. I know you have the better understanding for the modern deck here, I just wanted to bring in some thoughts.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I know the deck doesn't get much attention, but for the few people who stick with this little project thank you as always! Check it out and give me any feedback you have.
I'll be updating the History section of it and adding in some other random cards in the future like Explore, Pact of Negation, Plasm Capture, Utopia Sprawl, Snapback, Ætherize, Simic Charm, etc...
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I wouldn't say the deck is dead. The decks gotten to a point where it runs fine with the cards we have available and I think we've ended up testing almost everything thats been suggested in this thread. One big thing that comes up in the thread quite often is that people suggest an alt win-condition like Emerakul or fireball. One of the goals was to have a inefficient win condition in blue sun and posters that miss this point usually don't come back after their first comment. Another thing I think people miss with this deck is super cheap to build (under 3tix online), there may be more people out there who would build it if they saw that.
Playing 4 leylines could be fun. I'd be scared to play days undoing but if you are 100% trying to win on your opponents turn then its probably worth doing. Not really sure what you take out to include the leylines, maybe bound//determined? You could also probably go with heartbeat instead of dictate since you will need as many lands as possible.
Commit // Memory seems like a neat card that could replace time reversal since its pretty easy to throw cards into the graveyard off of the 3 cmc digging options this deck has.
Playing with Explore as more early ramp.
Also it's very tempting to muddle this deck with a time walk deck. Similar shell, probably entirely different thread. My trial list had one Mountain and Past in Flames. Making it feel like a storm deck that just played big spells instead of lots of little ones.
Great to hear there are people out there enjoying the deck! ill edit this in a bit with some actual discussion about your post comments.
Wildest Dreams is a pretty similar card that doesn't make you splash red. If you are going to play past in flames then you probably dont want time reversals since they don't play nice together. The thing this deck does well is playing a bunch of spells on the turn that it wins on. Casting time walks or playing howling mines isn't going to help with that and you will probably be better off playing the dedicated taking turns to make full use of those cards.
Monastery Siege is a pretty neat card! The first ability isn't super impressive as we should only be getting 2 maybe 3 triggers off of it, but the second one has some hope. It slows both discard and burn down enough. I don;t think protecting Dictates can be considered because you will double the opponents mana too, so paying that 2 won't be a problem for them. It's a neat card, but for my purposes I'd rather play Leyline of Sanctity and mulligan for it to completely shut down matchups.
We tried Mystical Teachings way way back, try searching the thread for the exact pages. It was very useful, but it moves the entire combo back a turn so it turned out to just be too slow.
I'd play more copies of a 2 mana draw like Anticipate or Telling Time before playing Forbidden Alchemy if you are looking to be able to grab anything. I would play it in a version running some Commit // Memory in the place of Time Reversal as a way to get it into the yard and cast Memory.
Teferi is a neat idea. If you only have one though is there a way to reliably play it without committing to Mystical Teachings? Why not just play Silence? I could see a shell with Him to remove the downside of Heartbeat being a thing, but then you're just adding more pieces to the deck.
I took a second look at this card when I was cracking packs at the GP and it seemed pretty reasonable actually. it does cost just a bit much for my liking though, and I feel like if you are getting to 6 mana to cast it you probably should have won. I like the card though and think it will be a good one to have in the back pocket in case it ever becomes relevant.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Played against a similar deck which played Vernal Bloom and Heartbeat of spring, it had early harvest and Rude Awakening to untap and played draw spells like Harmonize and Urban Evolution.
But the card which impressed me the most was Seasons Past!
The card helps mid combo and it gets your business cards back and it helps with consistency.
I don't have the Seasons Past yet but I will try it out.
I will edit my current decklist to this post when I am at home.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
4x Early Harvest
1x Emrakul
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Harmonize
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
1x Heartbeat of Spring
1x Coax from the Blind Eternity
2x Explore
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
3x Search for Tomorrow
3x Aetherflux Reservoir
3x Time Reversal
2x Bound//Determned
2x Reality Spasm
2x Wildest Dreams
8x Forest
10x Island
Some of the choices I made:
I had some games where the discard Dictate and Surgical Extraction it was a common play and you just lose, so I wanted a Heartbeat of Spring.Harmonize helps midcombo to not fizzle or after a Time reversal. My kill conditions are obviously Emrakul, BSZ and Aetherflux Reservoir, which is a very good addition even if you draw it midcombo it counts all the spells you cast in the round so it is very easy to kill with it. Coax from the Blind Eternities is Emrakul #2 and could be searched with Merchant scroll, but I saw how expensive the card is and dropped it =(
I was also surprised, how good the more green centric version I played against worked, I even thought it could be a very good way to be faster than with dictate of Karametra because Vernal Bloom is only bad against green decks. What do u think?
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Nope, I fixed that. Thanks for noticing it!
With you reason for wanting a Heartbeat of Spring, why not just put a Dictate in the sideboard if you are getting hit with Surgical Extraction postboard and then grab it with Research // Development later? Having one to bring in isn't the worst idea though.
Why are you playing Harmonize instead of more potent things like Pieces of the Puzzle which gets you exactly what you need mid combo and not three random things. There are too many things you can just blindly draw that will have you fizzle out. Having card selection is key because you are ultimately digging for Early Harvest and ways to reoccur it then once you have enough mana you have to dig for Blue Sun's Zenith, which brings me to the next point.
You winconditions are Emrakul, Coax from the Blind Eternity, 3 Aetherflux Reservoir, and Blue Sun's Zenith. BSZ can already win the game and help you combo off, meaning that you have 5 extra dead cards in your deck. What happens when you are digging to find an untap spell because you are short on mana and you draw into any of these 5 cards? You will just lose the game. What happens when you are trying to ramp early game and dig to find a manadoubler but draw one of these cards? They are going to sit in your hand and do nothing until you directly win which BSZ could do just as well. Basically they aren't changing the outcome of the game - you will sill win, but they are changing your likelihood to get there. Playing dedicated wincons isn't great as the deck is already fragile and it really needs all the help it can get. And half the point of the deck is to take 20 minute turns figuring out how to get a win!
The green version fails at falling apart once it's main gameplan doesn't work out. It is faster for sure, but can't recover from removal, counterspells, or not drawing well. With Blue we can smooth out our draws and get specific cards to help sculpt our hand. We can protect against counters, avoid removal, and recover from hate with our drawing power. The monogreen version basically hopes the opponent doesn't interact at all from my experience.
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Also I updated the history section of the primer so I guess it is 100% done now!
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
The list with vernal bloom was no monogreen list, it still played blue but it was more green oriented with harmonize and such.
It would have helped to write my sideboard down so you can see what my answers against burn and discard are.
Basically I play leyline and Monastery siege in the sideboard some bounce spells and more bound/determined to fight against counters.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I think they meant the blue leyline.
If you are going to play vernal bloom then add fetch lands + breeding pool as your blue sources.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm