This deck is a blast to play. It is a highly interactive deck that rewards good play & knowledge of the format and your deck. It has strong match-ups against aggro, combo, and random stuff. UWR control is the highest tier deck that is a difficult matchup.
1. Overview and History
The most prominent and vocal advocate for this deck is Midwest Grinder Jeff Hoogland. Jeff traces the orgin of the deck back to late 2012, where central Illinois LGS brewer Matt Norton had been working on the deck. Jeff keeps his current deck iteration here, along with links to his various articles & primers on the deck as well as relevant video content. There is a metric ton of content put out by him on the deck, including extensive video archives of the deck in action online. I enjoy the deck so much I wanted to bring a primer to this site for the community here, despite the existence of the content elsewhere. Since the initial Top 16 at Grand Prix Kansas City 2013 by Hoogland, various pilots have found success with the deck as you can see here and here.
2. Card Choices
Place your left hand over an unopened pack of Worldwake, raise your right hand and repeat after me the Tempo Deck Oath:
I do solemnly swear (I do solemnly swear), that I will never ever ever (that I will never ever ever), place or suggest to be placed (place or suggest to be placed), a dead do-nothing durdly card (a dead do-nothing durdly card), into this deck (into this deck), so help me Jace (so help me Jace).
First we start with the core card selection. Adjust these at your own peril.
The above core selection leaves us with 8 more cards to fill the deck. Beware the Dark Side that wants you to fill these slots with Gitaxian Probe and Serum Visions! Don't do it! There is nothing worse for this deck than drawing a card that does nothing!
Instead use these 8 slots to tune the deck to your meta-game. Here is a generic way to fill these last slots
3 more counter spells: Spell Pierce is probably the best choice here, although an extra Spell Snare could be good meta call.
2 swords:
a 1/1, 0/2, or 2/0 split ofSword of Light and Shadow and Sword of Fire and Ice work well here. Try and pick something that is in your curve and is guaranteed (or nearly guaranteed) to give you card advantage no matter the board state.
Sideboard
No funny transitional business is going on here. The name of the sideboard game for this deck is to strengthen our core plan against the metagame we expect.
More exile-style removal: Magma Spray is what we need here. Persist / undying things are solved by this , and it can also mess up Arcbound Ravager lines of play.
Land disruption: Spreading Seas and a Blood Moon fit the bill nicely here, although thinking of snapcastering a Stone Rain makes me drool. As fantastic as Blood Moon is, more than one is probably too greedy - because drawing more than one in the same game is not cool.
Spellskite. The number one card in the format is Lightning Bolt, so Spellskite in the board works out well. Affinty and Twin are affected by this card to varying degrees as well.
4. How to Play
This is going to be a long section.....
You are the aggro deck...but you are also the control deck...but you also have the sweetest non-infinite combo in the format in the form of bolt-snap-bolt. Your lands are threats and your removal is reach...do you get the point? To play this deck you need to know the format almost as well as your deck so you can switch roles as needed throughout your game/match/tournament. You've got game against nearly the entire meta.
Nearly ever card plays at instant speed. This is a huge advantage that you should seize whenever possible.
This post reserved for future use. I am looking for help bringing this deck primer to the MTGSalvation community, so if you have experience with the deck please, chime in!
Yes, thank you... That link can also be found through the link referenced above. He has about 5 articles on the deck that we should reference somewhere...
1) Why not just play the established deck? (It's here!)
2) Young Pyromancer seems like a pretty good auto-include, any reason he was left out?
3) Without Serum Visions are you getting reliable Delver flips? I've never been a fan of Delver without some set up and I'm curious as to whether it's working here
1) Why not just play the established deck? (It's here!)
2) Young Pyromancer seems like a pretty good auto-include, any reason he was left out?
3) Without Serum Visions are you getting reliable Delver flips? I've never been a fan of Delver without some set up and I'm curious as to whether it's working here
Great questions, thank you for bringing them!
1. The discussion on the UR Delver established thread was to have this UR tempo version be in its own thread. There are 27 cards different in this deck than the main one being discussed in that thread, and the two decks have different play styles and meet different forum criteria at the moment. Additionally since the playstyles and maindeck card choices are so different, the sideboard concerns are considerably different as well.
2. Young Pyromancer was left out because it is worse than Spellstutter Sprite for the style of play this deck is going for. The sprite plays at instant speed, is disruptive, and works well with mutavault. If YP was played we would be more tempted to play the dead cards Gitaxian Probe and Serum Visions which would adversely affect our tempo plans.
3. Serum Visions is no Ponder or Preordain. Without it, Delver still flips albeit the math is probably a bit worse. Not to worry - you still have some options to remedy this and still stick with the tempo style of play -
Use the flexible slots for up to 4 Magma Jets. This is a Shock and scry 2 for 1R at instant speed rather than a card and scry 2 for U at sorcery speed. I'd rather snapcaster the jet back than the visions!
Replace the Delvers altogether with Scion of Oona. I didn't get a chance to put this in the primer yet but this is the reason I titled it UR tempo rather than UR Delver. Scion causes additional problems for your opponent such as protecting your other threats in response even to Abrupt Decay and your Mutavaults from Tectonic Edge or Spreading Seas
@Normalsaline154: Many many thanks for starting this thread since we can finally start to focus on the SSS version. Nice to see it all gathered here.
I must admit I'm one of the guys that is lost to the dark side. I always love to play Serum Visions to flip me some delvers or to find;not find mana sources. In many occasions I'm glad with the results it gives me.
I find it really good when I start on turn 3 (with 3 land) so I can spend one mana on Serum Visions and keep 2 open for e.g. remand or mana leak.
Also, with spell pierce and spell snare it is ok to use at turn 2.
At the moment I'm also interested in Magma Jet though I do not want to cut my Serum Visions for it (yet).
I can tell you want to be saved! Let's examine the possibilities. First off since serum visions draws a card first, you run the risk about a third of the time of drawing a card that would have flipped your delver. Ugh. Next, with your turn 2 example holding up Pierce, this would cause you to misplay mutavault and hold it back for another turn so you could use UU to play your visions and hold up Pierce. So the card is dead in your hand for the purpose of delver flipping until turn 3, and it takes what would have been your 3rd chance at flipping to replace itself, so you already would have flipped the delver about 70% of the time regardless of using visions. Unlike magma jet you can't snapcaster visions to win the game on the spot.
We play 22 land in the deck but 4 of those are really just extra threats, so even when we "flood" we have a good chance of flooding with lands that are really just more threats.
If you really feel the need to set up your draws the cantrip for you is Telling Time. At least this lets you play the rest of your cards normally, and doesn't have the risk of screwing up a delver flip.
In this tempo style deck though spending time using visions is often a tempo loss at an important time in the game.
I'd like to paste this post over here from the young pyromancer version primer. It is a good as explanation as any when asking why that card is not in this deck. Should I change the title of this primer to "UR fae"?
One of the best parts of the old primer was the sideboarding advice. I have not played this deck enough to really contribute to this -- I just switched over from the Fae version, which I knew really well, but this deck seems to perform better so I wanted to try. I also am not sure when to be aggressive or when to hold back. Do I pretty much need YP or Delver in an opener to keep?
What I've noticed is it looks like this deck has a worse matchup with almost everything than Fae. Pod was a really good matchup for Fae, and does not look so with this. What are you sideboarding in? I rarely see magma spray in sideboards, and it's an all star against pod, hatebears, merfolk, and affinity, all decks that I want to side in more removal for countermagic. Is combust for UWX, mainly for manlands and resto? What do you do against goyf? Would love to see more info. This also seems worse against jund/rock post board. Also with less countermagic, seems worse against storm.
Keep in mind I'm skewed towards Fae. I know Fae and Pyrodelver are two completely different decks, but I need to know how to change my mindset playing them.
I tried one of Jeff Hooglands lists in a local tournament and had some success. (3-1 got me to top 4, and then lost in the finals) The deck was a lot of fun to play and I think I'll be running it again later.
The deck seemed quite weak to a resolved Vedalken Shackles however. This is a card that can pretty effectively hate us out, since it makes it almost impossible to keep a threat on the table without trading a lot of resources for it. So my question to you more experienced pilots is this: why is there so little artifact hate in the sideboard? I'd imagine Ensnaring Bridge, Defense Grid, Batterskull and to some degree Torpor Orb and Sword of Fire and Ice are also pretty bad if they resolve.
I tried one of Jeff Hooglands lists in a local tournament and had some success. (3-1 got me to top 4, and then lost in the finals) The deck was a lot of fun to play and I think I'll be running it again later.
The deck seemed quite weak to a resolved Vedalken Shackles however. This is a card that can pretty effectively hate us out, since it makes it almost impossible to keep a threat on the table without trading a lot of resources for it. So my question to you more experienced pilots is this: why is there so little artifact hate in the sideboard? I'd imagine Ensnaring Bridge, Defense Grid, Batterskull and to some degree Torpor Orb and Sword of Fire and Ice are also pretty bad if they resolve.
Resolved artifacts can certainly be difficult to deal with. I would add oblivion stone, wurmcoil engine and mindslaver (especially with academy ruins in play) to your list of problematic artifacts in the format.
The number one name of the game is to not let these cards resolve. Our abundant counter magic makes this possible much of the time. Most of the cards you name are not run in mainboards or as 4-ofs, so that is in our favor.
Since we already have such a stellar matchup vs affinity I don't think we need to splash green for the free flashback of ancient grudge. I think something like shattering blow is preferable, especially in the U Tron matchup. Perhaps Ratchet bomb or engineered explosives are not too slow for the 2-drop artifacts you listed.
What would your deck look like if you added 1-2 artifact hate cards?
As you mentioned, our first line of defence is counterspells, so knowing when to hold up counterspells, and what to counter, is pretty crucial. Since the artifacts can only be played at sorcery speed, this nearly 100% flash deck should be able to play around them. For me, learning when and what to counter is probably going to pay off more than stuffing the sideboard full of marginal hate.
Looking at Hoogland's May2014 list I see he's playing 3 Ratchet Bomb in the sideboard. This card can handle most of the problematic artifacts, as well as enabling you to deal with a lot of other annoying permanents. Against slow, but powerfull cards like Vedalken Shackles and Ensnaring Bridge it's a slow answer, but it'll get you there. Answering slow with slow seems like a decent backup, once counterspells failed. Against quick artifact plans like affinity, Ratchet Bomb can be a one-sided sweeper, so it's absolutely insane; I'd imagine you could get similar situations against auras, zoo, tokens, etc. It seems like a very broad answer.
I think, given the mana intensity of Engineered Explosives, that Ratchet Bomb is better in this deck. I frequently find I can cast something for 2, but spending 4 right away, or leaving up 2 for the activation is actually pretty expensive.
There is a little less activity on this thread than I had hoped...Until it picks up I'll hold off on fleshing out the primer. Anyone interested can just follow the links in the first post. Hopefully some pilots will bring results and more people will be interested in the deck soon. I will keep brewing and testing with it myself...the main thing I am stuck on is the swords seem awkward too often.
I feel like the reason people aren't posting is maybe because it isn't in established like the YP version?
I just returned to the SSS version this last week as I prefer it to the YP version mainly because I dislike tapping out. I feel like having the entire deck aside from a Sword at instant speed is awesome. How are you finding 22 Lands? Sometimes I feel like we play too many, however I only have 5 fetches currently so not sure how big a difference it makes. It both floods and makes delver harder to flip.
So I wasn't really sold on this deck to start with but having tried it out a bit myself and built a (budget) list IRL I'm loving it. I wouldn't want to play any less lands myself as I think we really want to hit three mana on turn three as often as possible and I think 22 is about our minimum to do that with but any more and flipping delver becomes a pain.
One thing I've quite liked in my lists is having access to either Infero Titan (on a budget) or Keranos, God of Storms (less budget) to help grind out the long games where you flood out and need some more gas. Titan does provide this well and also is a great beat stick but gets removed fairly easily by either Doom Blade or a Path. Keranos on the other hand seems great as both a provider of drawing and damage. To include either of these you need a fair whack of lands and even with 22 you are unlikely to hit them on turn 5/6 unless you've totally flooded.
That makes sense tbh. How have you found Keranos? Seems interesting considering testing 1 in the sideboard.
Also going to test Scion over Delver, Hoogland recommends it going into a larger event as flipping can be inconsistent especially post board if we bring in enchants/artifacts etc. Trying to prepare for a PTQ in a few weeks, will be expecting alot of UWR/Affinity, probably jund and twin also.
EDIT: Some pictures in the primer would be awesome. Should try get a banner made
A SB guide for each matchup using.the stock list would be amazing. I can atttempt to help if.needed
I found Keranos to really shine in some match ups. Against control of any kind or generally grindy decks (Jund probably falls in here) having Keranos out either provides a steady flow of extra cards (fueling your tempo machine) or free bolts which either help close out games or remove pesky creatures that slipped through.
I wouldn't want more than 1 in the board but drawing him mid-late game as you are otherwise running out of gas makes for quite a good top-deck
Sup fellas,
I'm new to magic so sorry if I sound dumb
but anyways my opinions about the deck ..
I like this deck a lot,I agree the 8 cards visions nd probe where kinda a waste
I like running 4 magma spray MD cuz flipping delver is important still nd you can burn or remove.
I decided to keep 4 vision cuz sometimes this deck can be to fast for its own good(meaning dumping cards faster, than relying on drawing a good card next turn) nd being able draw and also help flipping delver is important.
Next are some big changes I've added.
Maybe cuz of my budget (can't afford the faeries)or maybe cuz I play more aggressive, but I actually run 4 goblin guide lol now don't make fun of me it's said to be the best red card in modern nd it's also give us another creature to play on turn 1 say if you dnt draw delver and I think it kinda takes some pressure of flipping delver. GG puts are opponent on a clock with its haste and can be annoying. yes he can let them also draw a land but it can also act like a Gprobe buy letting us see what type of deck they have, lastly we have counter spells, so what ever they put out with that extra mana they may get we can counter it.
Another changes is that I like running two Grim lavamancers, so pretty much I'm running ur delver creature base but no faeries nd instead of young pyro I use goblin guide.
Spell wise ..
With the spells everything depends on your meta and or preference regarding how many snares or pierces, leaks, remands disspell, vapor snags. but I run two remands nd Im thinking about running 4 rune snags.
Lands..
Idk how I feel about 4 mutavualts but I understand why people run it, I never played them so idk I could be missing out but I like 19 lands nd for a back up plan I run one faeries concave.
I hope my thoughts helped lol nd sorry for my grammar I'm typing on my iPhone at work hope you guys can understand and follow what I'm saying lol
Private Mod Note
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‘If you dream of beating me, you’d better wake up and apologize.’
It (obviously) isn't quite as good as the non-budget list (which I'm now running online) but I don't have the money for the normal list on paper (particularly snappy, clique and lands!). It could definately use some work but I feel like it keeps the essence of the deck quite well.
For the normal deck list I'm really beginning to lean towards dropping my Telling Times all together and just having 4 Magma Jet to flip delver. TBH I'm really leaning towards Scion over delver anyway although I'm more than happy to admit that I'm still very new to the deck.
My first thought was "that looks great" but this was quickly followed by "...or does it" and I'm now at "I don't really like this", here is my reasoning:
I'm personally less worried about how full the two drop slot is and more worried about what you'd drop from any slot at all! Dropping a creature other than Delver seems bad as Quickling makes all your other creatures generate more value. You could drop Delver for it but then if you're dropping delver it seems like Scion of Oona is a better replacement card. Other than that you're cutting the spell base which if you've dropped Delver for Oona could be ok but I'd be reluctant to cut counters for more damage so it would either be Telling Time or some burn. I like having some card filtering (even if I do drop TT for Magma Jet) and generally I'd prefer the burn (as removal seems pretty key to me here).
Basically I feel like the value it could potentially generate is less useful to us than just keeping beating with whatever we have on board already and keeping up our spells. On top of all this you'll have those pain in the arse moments when you top deck it after a really grindy game with no creatures in play when what you really need is one last threat to finish them and then your heart will sink
Was interested in what you guys think a good sideboard should look like expecting the following meta: UWR/Jund (Mainly), Twin/Pod/Affinity and Tron (both colours), then rest of the meta i'm not too sure about.
anyone try goblin electromancer? maybe adding a few hard counters like dissolve or cancel?
If your gameplan doesn't involve dice, math, and your opponent trying not to be bored as he sits silently for five minutes as you kill him on one turn then leave the Electromancers at home.
what you guys think about this type of UR deck?
Creatures:
Delver of Secrets x4
Snapcaster Mage x4
Goblin Electromancers x4
Chandra's Phoenix x2 (or another finisher ex. Stormbreath dragon)
1. Overview and History
The most prominent and vocal advocate for this deck is Midwest Grinder Jeff Hoogland. Jeff traces the orgin of the deck back to late 2012, where central Illinois LGS brewer Matt Norton had been working on the deck. Jeff keeps his current deck iteration here, along with links to his various articles & primers on the deck as well as relevant video content. There is a metric ton of content put out by him on the deck, including extensive video archives of the deck in action online. I enjoy the deck so much I wanted to bring a primer to this site for the community here, despite the existence of the content elsewhere. Since the initial Top 16 at Grand Prix Kansas City 2013 by Hoogland, various pilots have found success with the deck as you can see here and here.
2. Card Choices
Place your left hand over an unopened pack of Worldwake, raise your right hand and repeat after me the Tempo Deck Oath:
I do solemnly swear (I do solemnly swear), that I will never ever ever (that I will never ever ever), place or suggest to be placed (place or suggest to be placed), a dead do-nothing durdly card (a dead do-nothing durdly card), into this deck (into this deck), so help me Jace (so help me Jace).
First we start with the core card selection. Adjust these at your own peril.
Core Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
Core Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
Mana Base
4 Mutavault
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Mountain
5 Island
The above core selection leaves us with 8 more cards to fill the deck. Beware the Dark Side that wants you to fill these slots with Gitaxian Probe and Serum Visions! Don't do it! There is nothing worse for this deck than drawing a card that does nothing!
Instead use these 8 slots to tune the deck to your meta-game. Here is a generic way to fill these last slots
3 more instant speed burn spells:
Excellent choices are Burst Lightning, Magma Jet, or Electrolyze.
3 more counter spells:
Spell Pierce is probably the best choice here, although an extra Spell Snare could be good meta call.
2 swords:
a 1/1, 0/2, or 2/0 split ofSword of Light and Shadow and Sword of Fire and Ice work well here. Try and pick something that is in your curve and is guaranteed (or nearly guaranteed) to give you card advantage no matter the board state.
Sideboard
No funny transitional business is going on here. The name of the sideboard game for this deck is to strengthen our core plan against the metagame we expect.
More counter magic: Negate seems like the best choice here - a hard counter for Liliana of the Veil, Karn, Liberated, or anything storm does. Dispel seems too narrow and Counterflux can be awkward with 4 Mutavaults in the maindeck. Having different types of countermagic also makes the Snapcaster Mages more versatile.
More exile-style removal: Magma Spray is what we need here. Persist / undying things are solved by this , and it can also mess up Arcbound Ravager lines of play.
Land disruption: Spreading Seas and a Blood Moon fit the bill nicely here, although thinking of snapcastering a Stone Rain makes me drool. As fantastic as Blood Moon is, more than one is probably too greedy - because drawing more than one in the same game is not cool.
Spellskite. The number one card in the format is Lightning Bolt, so Spellskite in the board works out well. Affinty and Twin are affected by this card to varying degrees as well.
More removal: Ratchet Bomb, Dismember, Turn/Burn are all reasonable here.
3. Decklists
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
Instants [21]
2 Burst Lightning
2 Electrolyze
2 Telling Time
3 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Pillar of Flame
Lands [22]
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Mountain
1 Sulfur Falls
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Steam Vents
4 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
3 Blood Moon
2 Dismember
3 Magma Spray
1 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spellskite
2 Spreading Seas
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
Instants [20]
1 Electrolyze
2 Burst Lightning
2 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Pillar of Flame
Artifacts [2]
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Lands [22]
1 Mountain
1 Sulfur Falls
3 Steam Vents
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
3 Magma Spray
2 Negate
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Spellskite
2 Spreading Seas
2 Dismember
2 Turn // Burn
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Vendilion Clique
Instants [20]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
3 Burst Lightning
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Pillar of Flame
Artifacts [2]
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Land [22]
5 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Mountain
1 Blood Moon
2 Dismember
3 Magma Spray
2 Negate
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spellskite
4. How to Play
This is going to be a long section.....
You are the aggro deck...but you are also the control deck...but you also have the sweetest non-infinite combo in the format in the form of bolt-snap-bolt. Your lands are threats and your removal is reach...do you get the point? To play this deck you need to know the format almost as well as your deck so you can switch roles as needed throughout your game/match/tournament. You've got game against nearly the entire meta.
Nearly ever card plays at instant speed. This is a huge advantage that you should seize whenever possible.
5. Match-up Analysis
6. Tournaments Results
Yes, thank you... That link can also be found through the link referenced above. He has about 5 articles on the deck that we should reference somewhere...
1) Why not just play the established deck? (It's here!)
2) Young Pyromancer seems like a pretty good auto-include, any reason he was left out?
3) Without Serum Visions are you getting reliable Delver flips? I've never been a fan of Delver without some set up and I'm curious as to whether it's working here
Great questions, thank you for bringing them!
1. The discussion on the UR Delver established thread was to have this UR tempo version be in its own thread. There are 27 cards different in this deck than the main one being discussed in that thread, and the two decks have different play styles and meet different forum criteria at the moment. Additionally since the playstyles and maindeck card choices are so different, the sideboard concerns are considerably different as well.
2. Young Pyromancer was left out because it is worse than Spellstutter Sprite for the style of play this deck is going for. The sprite plays at instant speed, is disruptive, and works well with mutavault. If YP was played we would be more tempted to play the dead cards Gitaxian Probe and Serum Visions which would adversely affect our tempo plans.
3. Serum Visions is no Ponder or Preordain. Without it, Delver still flips albeit the math is probably a bit worse. Not to worry - you still have some options to remedy this and still stick with the tempo style of play -
I can tell you want to be saved! Let's examine the possibilities. First off since serum visions draws a card first, you run the risk about a third of the time of drawing a card that would have flipped your delver. Ugh. Next, with your turn 2 example holding up Pierce, this would cause you to misplay mutavault and hold it back for another turn so you could use UU to play your visions and hold up Pierce. So the card is dead in your hand for the purpose of delver flipping until turn 3, and it takes what would have been your 3rd chance at flipping to replace itself, so you already would have flipped the delver about 70% of the time regardless of using visions. Unlike magma jet you can't snapcaster visions to win the game on the spot.
We play 22 land in the deck but 4 of those are really just extra threats, so even when we "flood" we have a good chance of flooding with lands that are really just more threats.
If you really feel the need to set up your draws the cantrip for you is Telling Time. At least this lets you play the rest of your cards normally, and doesn't have the risk of screwing up a delver flip.
In this tempo style deck though spending time using visions is often a tempo loss at an important time in the game.
The deck seemed quite weak to a resolved Vedalken Shackles however. This is a card that can pretty effectively hate us out, since it makes it almost impossible to keep a threat on the table without trading a lot of resources for it. So my question to you more experienced pilots is this: why is there so little artifact hate in the sideboard? I'd imagine Ensnaring Bridge, Defense Grid, Batterskull and to some degree Torpor Orb and Sword of Fire and Ice are also pretty bad if they resolve.
UR Twin decks sometimes mainboard a single Stomping Ground or Breeding Pool and play some number of Ancient Grudge in the sideboard, could this work here as well?
Resolved artifacts can certainly be difficult to deal with. I would add oblivion stone, wurmcoil engine and mindslaver (especially with academy ruins in play) to your list of problematic artifacts in the format.
The number one name of the game is to not let these cards resolve. Our abundant counter magic makes this possible much of the time. Most of the cards you name are not run in mainboards or as 4-ofs, so that is in our favor.
Since we already have such a stellar matchup vs affinity I don't think we need to splash green for the free flashback of ancient grudge. I think something like shattering blow is preferable, especially in the U Tron matchup. Perhaps Ratchet bomb or engineered explosives are not too slow for the 2-drop artifacts you listed.
What would your deck look like if you added 1-2 artifact hate cards?
Looking at Hoogland's May2014 list I see he's playing 3 Ratchet Bomb in the sideboard. This card can handle most of the problematic artifacts, as well as enabling you to deal with a lot of other annoying permanents. Against slow, but powerfull cards like Vedalken Shackles and Ensnaring Bridge it's a slow answer, but it'll get you there. Answering slow with slow seems like a decent backup, once counterspells failed. Against quick artifact plans like affinity, Ratchet Bomb can be a one-sided sweeper, so it's absolutely insane; I'd imagine you could get similar situations against auras, zoo, tokens, etc. It seems like a very broad answer.
I think, given the mana intensity of Engineered Explosives, that Ratchet Bomb is better in this deck. I frequently find I can cast something for 2, but spending 4 right away, or leaving up 2 for the activation is actually pretty expensive.
Cheers!
I feel like the reason people aren't posting is maybe because it isn't in established like the YP version?
I just returned to the SSS version this last week as I prefer it to the YP version mainly because I dislike tapping out. I feel like having the entire deck aside from a Sword at instant speed is awesome. How are you finding 22 Lands? Sometimes I feel like we play too many, however I only have 5 fetches currently so not sure how big a difference it makes. It both floods and makes delver harder to flip.
Modern:
UU/R SpellStutterR
One thing I've quite liked in my lists is having access to either Infero Titan (on a budget) or Keranos, God of Storms (less budget) to help grind out the long games where you flood out and need some more gas. Titan does provide this well and also is a great beat stick but gets removed fairly easily by either Doom Blade or a Path. Keranos on the other hand seems great as both a provider of drawing and damage. To include either of these you need a fair whack of lands and even with 22 you are unlikely to hit them on turn 5/6 unless you've totally flooded.
Also going to test Scion over Delver, Hoogland recommends it going into a larger event as flipping can be inconsistent especially post board if we bring in enchants/artifacts etc. Trying to prepare for a PTQ in a few weeks, will be expecting alot of UWR/Affinity, probably jund and twin also.
EDIT: Some pictures in the primer would be awesome. Should try get a banner made
A SB guide for each matchup using.the stock list would be amazing. I can atttempt to help if.needed
Modern:
UU/R SpellStutterR
I wouldn't want more than 1 in the board but drawing him mid-late game as you are otherwise running out of gas makes for quite a good top-deck
I'm new to magic so sorry if I sound dumb
but anyways my opinions about the deck ..
I like this deck a lot,I agree the 8 cards visions nd probe where kinda a waste
I like running 4 magma spray MD cuz flipping delver is important still nd you can burn or remove.
I decided to keep 4 vision cuz sometimes this deck can be to fast for its own good(meaning dumping cards faster, than relying on drawing a good card next turn) nd being able draw and also help flipping delver is important.
Next are some big changes I've added.
Maybe cuz of my budget (can't afford the faeries)or maybe cuz I play more aggressive, but I actually run 4 goblin guide lol now don't make fun of me it's said to be the best red card in modern nd it's also give us another creature to play on turn 1 say if you dnt draw delver and I think it kinda takes some pressure of flipping delver. GG puts are opponent on a clock with its haste and can be annoying. yes he can let them also draw a land but it can also act like a Gprobe buy letting us see what type of deck they have, lastly we have counter spells, so what ever they put out with that extra mana they may get we can counter it.
Another changes is that I like running two Grim lavamancers, so pretty much I'm running ur delver creature base but no faeries nd instead of young pyro I use goblin guide.
Spell wise ..
With the spells everything depends on your meta and or preference regarding how many snares or pierces, leaks, remands disspell, vapor snags. but I run two remands nd Im thinking about running 4 rune snags.
Lands..
Idk how I feel about 4 mutavualts but I understand why people run it, I never played them so idk I could be missing out but I like 19 lands nd for a back up plan I run one faeries concave.
I hope my thoughts helped lol nd sorry for my grammar I'm typing on my iPhone at work hope you guys can understand and follow what I'm saying lol
Modern Only
Currently Running:
BG Midrange
I feel like goblin guide is bad because it.makes your mana leaks quite a bit worse, and keeps them drawing threats which we need to deal with.
Also very umsure about magma spray MD. You don`t wanrt dead cards, it cant go to the face like pillar can.
Modern:
UU/R SpellStutterR
9 Island
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Faerie Conclave
2 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Evolving Wilds
6 Mountain
Threats
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Pestermite
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Rune Snag
1 Remand
1 Deprive
Burn
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Burst Lightning
2 Electrolyze
2 Magma Jet
Other stuff!
2 Telling Time
2 Runechanter's Pike
3 Thought Scour
3 Magma Spray
2 Dismember
2 Vandalblast
1 Damping Matrix
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Echoing Truth
2 Molten Rain
2 Negate
It (obviously) isn't quite as good as the non-budget list (which I'm now running online) but I don't have the money for the normal list on paper (particularly snappy, clique and lands!). It could definately use some work but I feel like it keeps the essence of the deck quite well.
For the normal deck list I'm really beginning to lean towards dropping my Telling Times all together and just having 4 Magma Jet to flip delver. TBH I'm really leaning towards Scion over delver anyway although I'm more than happy to admit that I'm still very new to the deck.
Quickling
Modern:
UU/R SpellStutterR
My first thought was "that looks great" but this was quickly followed by "...or does it" and I'm now at "I don't really like this", here is my reasoning:
I'm personally less worried about how full the two drop slot is and more worried about what you'd drop from any slot at all! Dropping a creature other than Delver seems bad as Quickling makes all your other creatures generate more value. You could drop Delver for it but then if you're dropping delver it seems like Scion of Oona is a better replacement card. Other than that you're cutting the spell base which if you've dropped Delver for Oona could be ok but I'd be reluctant to cut counters for more damage so it would either be Telling Time or some burn. I like having some card filtering (even if I do drop TT for Magma Jet) and generally I'd prefer the burn (as removal seems pretty key to me here).
Basically I feel like the value it could potentially generate is less useful to us than just keeping beating with whatever we have on board already and keeping up our spells. On top of all this you'll have those pain in the arse moments when you top deck it after a really grindy game with no creatures in play when what you really need is one last threat to finish them and then your heart will sink
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Scion of Oona
1 Burst Lightning
1 Electrolyze
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Turn // Burn
1 Vapor Snag
1 Gut Shot
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
Was interested in what you guys think a good sideboard should look like expecting the following meta: UWR/Jund (Mainly), Twin/Pod/Affinity and Tron (both colours), then rest of the meta i'm not too sure about.
So far I am settled on:
Sideboard
2x Blood Moon
1x Dismember
1x Counterflux
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Negate
2x Spellskite
1x Batterskull
Cheers!
Modern:
UU/R SpellStutterR
Modern Only
Currently Running:
BG Midrange
Modern Only
Currently Running:
BG Midrange
Creatures:
Delver of Secrets x4
Snapcaster Mage x4
Goblin Electromancers x4
Chandra's Phoenix x2 (or another finisher ex. Stormbreath dragon)
Spells:23
Lightning Bolt x4
Mana Leak x3
Dissolve x2
Spell Snare x2
Magma Jet x3
Deprive x2
Dissipate x2
Spell Pierce x2
Electrolyze x2
Vapor Snag x2
Maybe(if not add 2 more spells)
Planeswalkers:
Jace Beleren x2
Lands:20
Scalding Tarn x4
Misty Rainforest x2
Steam Vents x4
Sulfur Falls x3
Tectonic Edge x1
Mutavault x2
Island x3
Mountain x1
Modern Only
Currently Running:
BG Midrange