MTG Salvation

What would a list without Snapcaster Mage look like? I'm very curious. I imagine you wouldn't be able to make as many value piles. So what are your gift piles outside of reanimator going to look like? I am also interested in reanimating Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. I know he has to be protected for a turn (Pact of Negation) but honestly there are only 2 spells in Modern that see consistent play that can answer him (Path To Exile and Dismember), Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay can't answer Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur.

I too have been thinking about Jin-Gitaxias has a target for control match ups. I think he is a very underrated card, very few decks can come back from having no cards and as Honor said, very few things can remove him before he has destroyed their hand.

I think he is definitely a card that should be considered for the more control stylish gift deck, being able to force their hands empty and refill urs with counterspells is gonna be a solid choice.

If you're looking for something specifically to sideboard against control, I would probably run Sire of Insanity over Jin. He destroys the opponent's hand immediately rather than giving them a whole turn to deal with it. Losing your own hand is a minor drawback when it means giving the opponent only three draw steps to find an answer or die.

Quote from CMOR »

Jin Gitaxias, Sire of Insanity, ignore all this crap, you are never going to get to resolve it.

I think this is pretty cynical and you may be overestimating the likelyhood of our opponent having removal that can deal with these creatures (Abrupt Decay, Smother, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, can't deal with them) and they tremendous upside advantage of having these creatures resolve even if it's just a turn.

Jin-Gitaxis is cool, but other than terrastadon, there isn't a matchup that iona or elesh norn won't be better for--IF there is a fattie solution to be had period.

I'm on 4cc gifts, and I side out unburial rites package against UWR control, UWR midrange taps out for their geist so if you're on the play it may be worth keeping it in--not that either fattie is that great in the matchup (I name white and make them waste cryptics/use paths)

Unburial rites plan against jund comes down to timing, like whether not scavenging ooze is around, but you sort of have to keep it in g2/3 because shutting down their black is awesome and no disruption they run other than ooze can really interfere with it.

If anyone is interested, here's my semi-budget list. It features no fetchlands, Liliana of the Veil or Snapcaster Mage and instead of relying on Iona, Shield of Emeria it uses Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur for value. Jin-Gitaxias is insane by the way, even if you just draw the 7 cards, you basically can't lose, but if he sticks around for a turn it's just icing on the cake. Don't laugh at Rotting Rats. It's a solid budget substitution for Liliana of the Veil and at times it can offer superior interactions. Sphinx of the Steel Wind is mostly a meta choice because my card shop has a lot of green heavy lists. Timely Reinforcements is generally better than Kitchen Finks here and I'm surprised more lists aren't running Timely Reinforcements.



I'd appreciate some feedback, and I am aware the list isn't quite as competitive (my card shop is more semi competitive kitchen table, very few people there play with staples like Goyf and V Clique and high value cards outside of some affinity staples.

See Beyond is for shuffling Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Sphinx of the Steel Wind back into the deck. It initially was a 4th Rotting Rats, but I found 4 Rotting Rats to be too many.

In Gifts you combo from the graveyard, but Gifts brings stuff straight to the graveyard anyway. Besides with all the graveyard hate going around in the format you may not want to throw your goodies in the trash as soon as possible anyway. You don't want to cast Gifts Ungiven when Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is in your hand. See Beyond puts it back so you can still combo while getting you two cards closer to Gifts Ungiven or other answers. I wish Careful Study was Modern legal.

I think Thirst for Knowledge might be a card to consider for See Beyond. Its an instant that lets you drop cards into the graveyard, so you can turn 3 end of opponents turn cast thirst, drop fatty/rites and then untap, play land and go off. It might be good to consider in the place of that one of the rats or the see beyond.

Compulsive Research could also be something to consider. The sorcery speed is obviously a downgrade, but there's the potential to cast it just for value where Thirst for Knowledge will never gain card advantage without artifacts.

Quote from CMOR »

Inkwell is very bad versus everything other deck in the format.

Could you elaborate? I get that attacking into Pod with Viscera Seer is bad, but how is Inkwell that bad against Twin variants, blue Tron or Blue Moon where Elesh Norn is not very good? There's very little wrath played in Modern because the spot removal is so good, tons of decks play islands (3 turn clock), and if not, it's still 7 power trample.

I get that Inkwell is not Iona, but it is also 1/10th the price. Do you think Terastodon is a better budget choice?

I keep thinking about UWR Kiki and TarmoTwin: decks that combine a control or beatdown strategy and a combo element to mix up their threats. I'm thinking about trying more of an Esper Tempo deck that uses Gifts to tutor, but also threaten a "combo."

Any thoughts on something like this?

Quote from Timber »

Quote from CMOR »

Inkwell is very bad versus everything other deck in the format.

Could you elaborate? I get that attacking into Pod with Viscera Seer is bad, but how is Inkwell that bad against Twin variants, blue Tron or Blue Moon where Elesh Norn is not very good? There's very little wrath played in Modern because the spot removal is so good, tons of decks play islands (3 turn clock), and if not, it's still 7 power trample.

I get that Inkwell is not Iona, but it is also 1/10th the price. Do you think Terastodon is a better budget choice?

I personally like Griselbrand as an Iona replacement if you have them, but if you don't he is still probably too expensive.

Quote from Timber »

I keep thinking about UWR Kiki and TarmoTwin: decks that combine a control or beatdown strategy and a combo element to mix up their threats. I'm thinking about trying more of an Esper Tempo deck that uses Gifts to tutor, but also threaten a "combo."

Any thoughts on something like this?

Valanarch's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
2 Creeping Tar Pit 2 Darkslick Shores 1 Godless Shrine 1 Hallowed Fountain 1 Island 4 Marsh Flats 2 Misty Rainforest 1 Plains 2 Seachrome Coast 1 Snow-Covered Island 1 Snow-Covered Plains 1 Snow-Covered Swamp 1 Sunken Ruins 1 Swamp 1 Tectonic Edge 1 Watery Grave	2 Inquisition of Kozilek 2 Path to Exile 2 Spell Snare 3 Thoughtseize 2 Into the Roil 2 Mana Leak 4 Gifts Ungiven 1 Unburial Rites 2 Snapcaster Mage 3 Spirit of the Labyrinth 4 Tidehollow Sculler 4 Geist of Saint Traft 2 Hushwing Gryff	2 Liliana of the Veil 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

I'd cut the Gryffs, as they nullify your Scullers and Snapcaster Mages.

there is some really weak deck building going on in this forum, does anyone have any version of this deck build in paper?

I actually think this is very different, I was more disturbed by the hushwing griffin list above. Budget isn't the same excuse for bad.

On your list specifically, I'd cut a mana leak or two for the full set OR three lingering souls--they're really good and let you stall till you draw the stuff you really need. I wish I always had a turn 4 gifts but sometimes you just never see one, souls help. I'd also move batterskull main--it can steal games from aggro decks and is super resilient in decks trying to grind one out. try and pay attention to how you use that cryptic command, it may be too color intensive to use on curve, but I do like its utility. I would also look at running some number of hibernations and exhaustions. they're great cards that serve a bit of the same function, and help mitigate your lack of remands (not that I know I'd run them in this list anyway, but it could be good).

I would test pack rat as another way to discard your fatties--they are cheap and smooth out your late game dead draws. great synergy with the think twice I'd recommend in place of that one mainboard duress. I do think you want to also adjust some sideboard stuff--damping matrix is awesome, torpor orb in the side is great, and I swear you'll be dissapointed by inkwell. Grave titan has been a great 'reasonable to cast' finisher for both 4c and esper gifts, I wouldn't forget about it. I'd also change your singleton dispel to a negate, or countersquall.

your land base might benefit from some darkslick shores instead of the checklands, I'd say three in place of the snow basics. This way you can turn one discard if you have it and also turn 2 hold up counters on the play, or hold up snare on the draw--both of which are probably going to be crucial for the deck to survive to cast souls to survive to cast gifts to survive to not be too far behind before gifts decks really get in the game.

I think you have a great deck, and the changes I'd suggest should cost you less than $20--not too bad. I think of course you know you wanna fix up your mana, but I understand not wanting to deal with the fetch thing. I would try and add a second or even third tarpit before adding fetches though.

Jace, the living guild pact could be really interesting.

Quote from Te@pot »

Jace, the living guild pact could be really interesting.

No, he couldn't be. He has a mediocre +1 that will rarely do what you want him to and an expensive -3 that has a small impact.

It was just an idea, and I think you underestimate it slightly. Unless I am horribly mistaken this is a form of reanimator deck. Being able to filter your draws and put unburial rites or re animation targets in the grave.

I can't tell if you were thinking in terms of synergy with the deck or not, but his +1 does have synergy.

I'm not saying it works in practice I'm just defending my comment.

Quote from Te@pot »

It was just an idea, and I think you underestimate it slightly. Unless I am horribly mistaken this is a form of reanimator deck. Being able to filter your draws and put unburial rites or re animation targets in the grave.

I can't tell if you were thinking in terms of synergy with the deck or not, but his +1 does have synergy.

I'm not saying it works in practice I'm just defending my comment.

You are generally running 2 reanimation targets in the whole deck. Jace will not consistently hit either of them.

Quote from Lord_W »

I thought fast lands in a control deck is a mistake, but a good start that you described is a key to reach the late game. Checklands are terrible in first few turns and then it's very hard to catch up.

It depends on the exact deck, of course, but I think it's generally most important for your lands to be able to enter untapped on turns 2 and 3. If your 4th/5th land drop enters tapped that's not as much a problem because you still have enough mana to answer what your opponent is doing.

It's situational, obviously. There will be times you really want to use your fourth land drop right away, but it usually won't outright cost you the game like tapped lands on turn 1-3 might.

Hello, guys. I've played esper gifts with deathrite preban and now trying to build without shaman. There's something what I learned:

- I want to play esper control, but still can't drop Loam. I'm running light green splash for it and sometimes for a couple of Decays in main/side
- 1-mana spells are extremely important. I want as many of these as I can get. We have good late game, so focusing at getting there is pretty important. Now I play 2 inquisition, 4 path and 2 disfigure (not counting 1 raven's crime). Path is not an early game spell, but it does a lot of work against goyfs, twin and melira, it can be replayed with snapcaster with only 3 mana which is so great. Disfigure is a must because of bob and manadorks. Sometimes I want 3 in MB. I also run 1 dismember as a more versatile but pricey disfigure. I want more discard here, cause t1 discard followed by t3 discard with snap is where I want to be in any match. But inquisition don't hit many important cards like pod, twin, cryptic, karn. And deck cannot run thoughtseize without good ways to regain some life. So I really don't know what to do here.

- At 2 mana I have 3 mana leaks, 3 snapcasters and 2 think twice. Think twice happens to be very good, and 2 seems the right number. Mana Leaks seems underperformed for me, but I don't know what to bring instead. I clearly want Abrupt Decay here, but don't want to be too deep in green, cause mana is already awkward. I never thought of Pack Rats, but after reading this topic I'll try one. It seems powerful, especially after sb.

- 3-mana spells must be liliana and souls, no more room, really. I play 3 Liliana and not sure if I want that number, but I'm totally sold to 4 souls. They are just what this deck wants. Souls shines with Lily, protects you and your walker, attack opposite walkers, buy time, add value to gifts and just beats. This is very powerful defensive card that can also put a lot of pressure.

- 4-mana spell must be Gifts. I never understand running cryptic here. We are 3-color deck(in my case with splash) and we're already heavy on black and white, so running spells with UUU in mana cost seems too greedy. We rarely be able to cast it on turn 4, and it must be just a dead card in hand while we need some action. We even run snapcasters, so if we want to flash cryptic back, we need UUUU. On the other hand, at 4 mana we want to gifts, if board is safe, and stabilize if we are loosing on board. And tap-draw almost always is not enough to stabilize. It's good for deck like scapeshift, which can just drop 7th land and combo out, but for us it not doing much. Cryptic are good in long grindy games, but we are already good in these type of games. What we really want is some ways to survive first turns without been too far behind.
Wraths may be a strong option, depending on your meta. Other 4-drops like Restoration, Elspeth and so on not even close.

- I really want to gain some life, but don't want to lose value. Finks is bad in so many matches so I clearly don't want it MB, and maybe even in side. 3 mana is a lot, I need a cheaper way. Timely reinforcement is good, but too narrow to run it maindeck. Deathrite, I miss you so much.

Overall gifts seems strong but unconsistent. And there is a huge upside playing this deck - it's so fun and challenging, and still competitive. I just can't stop playing it.

I've been testing my semi-budget paper version a lot and I am very satisfied. The mana base is very consistent.Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur does a lot of work, it's just silly how broken it is. Even just drawing 7 cards is crazy, but if you get him to survive a full turn it's practically impossible for you to lose. My meta has more green and red creature based decks than most metas do so Sphinx of the Steel has been just causing players to scoop. Rotting Rats is very underrated and Timely Reinforcements buys us so much time and is worthy of mainboard. Here's the list:

I am currently running a Sun Titan version with a little bit of new stuff.
Currently i am only working at the manabase which i am not completely sure atm., but i know that i want to contain ist at least 2 or 3 Celestial Colonnade and 2 or 3 Nephalia Drownyard. The last one is for the Controlmirror, where it will simply win the game, and to create value for Sun Titan. I am testing this mana base a lot atm.
The rest of the deck so far:

• 3 Sun Titan
  
• 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
  
• 1 Wurmcoil Engine
  
• 2 Snapcaster Mage
  
• 4 Gifts ungiven
  
• 2 Unburial Rites
  
• 2 Cryptic Command
  
• 4 Mana Leak
  
• 4 Path to Exile
  
• 1 Slaughter Pact
  
• 1 Doom Blade
  
• 1 Dismember
  
• 2 Supreme Verdict
  
• 3 Lingering Souls
  
• 4 Liliana of the veil
  
• 1 Font of Fortunes
  

I am currently running 2 Reanimationspells because i often had the situation where i needed a second one but did not get it. I must say that i did this BEFORE seeing the pack rat idea. I am beginning to think combining Titan and Rats would be nice, so perhaps i will try this out. But to get full value from this i think i would need Life from the loam so... *sigh*

I also play a Sun Titan build, and I've found that three Titans is too many. You don't ever want them in your hand in the early game, and you don't really want to draw a second one. I've cut down to just one copy; he's great value, but unfortunately that's just not good enough.

I was also thinking that perhaps 3 is too much, but i am pretty sure i will not go below 2 since i see really great value in him, especially with Liliana, Font of Fortunes and (perhaps) Pack Rats. Man, those Pack Rats. I need to find a solution for this.