Interesting. Okay I stand corrected then. Just feels bad at first glance. I've never considered it honestly.
Perhaps run it with peace as a way to gain a little life. Effectively paying 1 to gain 2 since a you'll draw a good portion of lands throughout the course of the game.
true. i would only run it as a 2 of if i do. its been a while since I ran a list with spiteful visions. I'm a just keep the fevered visions and run ebony owl netsuke with some curse of exhaustion .
how relevant do you guys feel sphinx's tutelage is in the current meta? how many cards in the top decks share a color and has it just become obsolete? its dead to affinity, dead against higher land count decks, and idk if theres enough cards in decks that share colors. still deciding if i want to go the damage route with ur visions and keranos or try something else... I've also been thinking about playing with azor's elocutors with Lightning Greaves
do you guys feel that sphinx's tutelage is a good enough win con? besides etron and affinity, are there enough cards in decks sharing colors? and how do you guys feel about etron matchup?
hows it been going with the unbanning of jace and bbe? i feel bbe is much easier for ppl to buy so i feel more aggro or midrange is out there than control so i feel we are favored
Been gone for awhile. Nice primer though. I'd like to suggest 2 "fog" that seem to be missed quite often. Sudden Spoiling Good fog that only doesn't work against affinity. But the plus side is it is uncounterable. Settle the Wreckage instant fog that resets the board and pulls all basic lands out the deck for a faster mill. The exile effect is also not completely useless.
Been gone for awhile. Nice primer though. I'd like to suggest 2 "fog" that seem to be missed quite often. Sudden Spoiling Good fog that only doesn't work against affinity. But the plus side is it is uncounterable. Settle the Wreckage instant fog that resets the board and pulls all basic lands out the deck for a faster mill. The exile effect is also not completely useless.
Would Sudden Spoiling only be bad against affinty because of cranial plating?
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Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
Been gone for awhile. Nice primer though. I'd like to suggest 2 "fog" that seem to be missed quite often. Sudden Spoiling Good fog that only doesn't work against affinity. But the plus side is it is uncounterable. Settle the Wreckage instant fog that resets the board and pulls all basic lands out the deck for a faster mill. The exile effect is also not completely useless.
Would Sudden Spoiling only be bad against affinty because of cranial plating?
+1/+1 counters are also unaffected so Arcbound Ravager and Cranial Plating both.
hey guys! glad to see some life in the thread. sadly i havent had a lot of time to keep up with modern. i will go over all suggestions with my opinions when i get home from work.
Been gone for awhile. Nice primer though. I'd like to suggest 2 "fog" that seem to be missed quite often. Sudden Spoiling Good fog that only doesn't work against affinity. But the plus side is it is uncounterable. Settle the Wreckage instant fog that resets the board and pulls all basic lands out the deck for a faster mill. The exile effect is also not completely useless.
spoiling seems good if we need an uncounterable way to fog. id say if you have a lot of control, go for it.
on wreckage... i like the exile in some cases. and t does help mill a little so maybe it has a home in some lists. im keepig to my supreme verdicts for now.
Hi I'm looking to make a fun budget deck for new players and this came up as an idea. So a couple of questions. First without laylinnes is there anyway to win against burn? And is there any viable alternative?
Secondly I'm considering going jeski colors and having a mix of visions and locust god as win cons. Is this viable and is it better that a sphinx mill plan ( maybes with a 2 mb Fraying Sanity to speed things up?,)
theyre are about 10 cards or so that grant you hexproof/shroud. Three of which are creatures and only one won't die to a bolt. The rest are so slow that a burn player should be on the brink of beating us at that point. This is why leyline is so important for beating burn because you can drop it turn zero and in games two and three that doesn't always do it for you so you will have to have other side board hate for burn. I run ley-lines main deck to stop all things that Target me. Most combos win by targeting and those that don't go wide which are deck doesn't care about. My sideboard has a few counters and cards that let me name a specific card and gain protection from it and make it so that card can't be played. I will list all the hexproof cards if you would like but if you go and do a gather search for modern cards with the text "you can't be the target," that will show you all you need
I thought you'd say that :/ I I already use Shalai, Voice of Plenty in my mono white devotion build but that also has huge amounts not life gain so getting to turn 3-4 isn't to bad, maybe ill just have to SB 3 and mb 4 spirit guilds and pray (maybe a couple oketra's last mercy to help stabilising as well :/ )
The only other thing I suggest is running fogs that prevent all damage. not just combat dmg. dawn charm is also nice. in my sideboard, i have negates and runed halo but halo is expensive. i also have 2 copies of CoP: red. i find halo useful against eidolon since every fog in my list is a 1 drop. CoP red will negate their burn for 1 generic. lifegain is also burns bane if you have enough of it. its hard for them to beat you if you have enough. i was toying with rest for the weary but theres better cards like CoP red. i picked up a set of the new sphere to combat tron bc thats also a very hard match up
Been gone for awhile. Nice primer though. I'd like to suggest 2 "fog" that seem to be missed quite often. Sudden Spoiling Good fog that only doesn't work against affinity. But the plus side is it is uncounterable. Settle the Wreckage instant fog that resets the board and pulls all basic lands out the deck for a faster mill. The exile effect is also not completely useless.
Would Sudden Spoiling only be bad against affinty because of cranial plating?
+1/+1 counters are also unaffected so Arcbound Ravager and Cranial Plating both.
Exactly. As long as your play environment doesn't have a ton of them spoiling is definitely a main deck option.
Been gone for awhile. Nice primer though. I'd like to suggest 2 "fog" that seem to be missed quite often. Sudden Spoiling Good fog that only doesn't work against affinity. But the plus side is it is uncounterable. Settle the Wreckage instant fog that resets the board and pulls all basic lands out the deck for a faster mill. The exile effect is also not completely useless.
spoiling seems good if we need an uncounterable way to fog. id say if you have a lot of control, go for it.
on wreckage... i like the exile in some cases. and t does help mill a little so maybe it has a home in some lists. im keepig to my supreme verdicts for now.
Supreme is probably the best board clearing fog there is. Love it. My adds were because the primer didn't list them. They are great options as is verdict.
Been gone for awhile. Nice primer though. I'd like to suggest 2 "fog" that seem to be missed quite often. Sudden Spoiling Good fog that only doesn't work against affinity. But the plus side is it is uncounterable. Settle the Wreckage instant fog that resets the board and pulls all basic lands out the deck for a faster mill. The exile effect is also not completely useless.
Would Sudden Spoiling only be bad against affinty because of cranial plating?
+1/+1 counters are also unaffected so Arcbound Ravager and Cranial Plating both.
Exactly. As long as your play environment doesn't have a ton of them spoiling is definitely a main deck option.
Been gone for awhile. Nice primer though. I'd like to suggest 2 "fog" that seem to be missed quite often. Sudden Spoiling Good fog that only doesn't work against affinity. But the plus side is it is uncounterable. Settle the Wreckage instant fog that resets the board and pulls all basic lands out the deck for a faster mill. The exile effect is also not completely useless.
spoiling seems good if we need an uncounterable way to fog. id say if you have a lot of control, go for it.
on wreckage... i like the exile in some cases. and t does help mill a little so maybe it has a home in some lists. im keepig to my supreme verdicts for now.
Supreme is probably the best board clearing fog there is. Love it. My adds were because the primer didn't list them. They are great options as is verdict.
There was someone that I was working on the primer with and giving him my ideas. He was supposed to log into my account and adjust the primer but he disappeared and I'm not qualified to do a primer because I have no idea how to get images up or create the scroll down menus. I'm just an avid player of turbofog and have tried every possible win condition and combination of colors possible so I feel I'm pretty knowledgeable up until recently since I haven't had a lot of time to play. I think the best way to when is probably either with a planeswalker ultimate, alternate win condition, or the mindslaver lock
There was someone that I was working on the primer with and giving him my ideas. He was supposed to log into my account and adjust the primer but he disappeared and I'm not qualified to do a primer because I have no idea how to get images up or create the scroll down menus. I'm just an avid player of turbofog and have tried every possible win condition and combination of colors possible so I feel I'm pretty knowledgeable up until recently since I haven't had a lot of time to play. I think the best way to when is probably either with a planeswalker ultimate, alternate win condition, or the mindslaver lock
have you tried approach of the second sun yet? seems solid in this deck.
on the primer, I would recomend you compile the info here on what cards and colors are best and maybe have some decklists so somebody else can edit it to include it all in the primer.
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Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
There was someone that I was working on the primer with and giving him my ideas. He was supposed to log into my account and adjust the primer but he disappeared and I'm not qualified to do a primer because I have no idea how to get images up or create the scroll down menus. I'm just an avid player of turbofog and have tried every possible win condition and combination of colors possible so I feel I'm pretty knowledgeable up until recently since I haven't had a lot of time to play. I think the best way to when is probably either with a planeswalker ultimate, alternate win condition, or the mindslaver lock
have you tried approach of the second sun yet? seems solid in this deck.
on the primer, I would recomend you compile the info here on what cards and colors are best and maybe have some decklists so somebody else can edit it to include it all in the primer.
if you are interewted, i could hand the primer over to you. and approach to me is a great wincon. its counter resilient
There was someone that I was working on the primer with and giving him my ideas. He was supposed to log into my account and adjust the primer but he disappeared and I'm not qualified to do a primer because I have no idea how to get images up or create the scroll down menus. I'm just an avid player of turbofog and have tried every possible win condition and combination of colors possible so I feel I'm pretty knowledgeable up until recently since I haven't had a lot of time to play. I think the best way to when is probably either with a planeswalker ultimate, alternate win condition, or the mindslaver lock
have you tried approach of the second sun yet? seems solid in this deck.
on the primer, I would recomend you compile the info here on what cards and colors are best and maybe have some decklists so somebody else can edit it to include it all in the primer.
if you are interested, i could hand the primer over to you. and approach to me is a great wincon. its counter resilient
I don't know if I'm really qualified to run this primer, I only play pauper turbo fog, and I don't have the data or the knowledge on this deck to be able to properly rewrite the primer. I do plan to test this deck a little bit this summer, since it looks like fun and seems pretty well positioned, but as it stands I'll have to turn down your offer.
Thanks for the offer though.
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Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
I don't like the owl. Prefer the crane to keep your life high. Basically with crane you can gain some life then sweep the board here and there. The next few turns you can take the hits because the odds they are dealing 4 a turn right after a sweeper is pretty slim. This saves you on needing to play fogs thereby giving you more cards in hand to gain more life.
If you want that slot dedicated to trying to win then the trap is pretty amazing.
Edit: also don't feel that you need trap, visions, and approach all in the same deck. The win con should be narrowed and more survival included.
If you want damage then go damage. If you want approach then play silence and gigadrowse. Remember the first approach doesn't have to resolve. Only the second one has to. So hitting them with a big gigadrowse the turn before you plan to win is great. Just requires a lot of blue mana. Well only enough to tap there blue lands anyways. Silence is good, but if against counters they will have a few counters you have to fight through.
i agree with picking a wincon. the ONLY reason to run red is fevered visions. there really iant even any good sb cards out of red tbh. personally, i like owl. if it sticks and you have a few turbo pieces, its hard for them to get around. but again... its a matter of do you want to win with dmg or alt win con. pick one and dedicate the deck. personally, i think approach is our best win con. its 1 card, puts itself back into the deck just 1 turn away for us thanks to our mines, and isnt as easily dealt with like enchantment win cons or creature win cons. not saying its an answer to burn but the lifgain would help if weve somehow slowed them to turn 7. or less if youre ever wanting to play Green and add Rites of flourishing . i dont think matrix is worth it personally either. heres my current list (i will be changing the list tonight with approaches):
ob is fun but approach is better. 4 leyline main is sometimes an auto win and stops a lot of combos from winning by targeting. sideboard is also gonna change. 4 negates is for tron. hits chalice on 1. hits karn/ugin or oblivion stone. not sure if its good against eldrazi charm bc i havent played modern in awhile. runed halo and cop: red along with negates can help against burn. halo is mostly for eidolon otgr. needle is for planeswalkers or anything with abilities. o-ring and d-sphere for problematic perms. sphinxs were an alt win con over ob in games 2 and 3 bc they cant be touched.
i have 4 damping spheres i want in sb and 3 tomods crypts, also for sb, if theyre are needed in modern right now. help with sb would be nice since idk the decks in modern right now
cop red is modern legal. modern is 8th ed forward and it was in both 8th and 9th ed.
so before tonights fnm, im looking at weather i should swap out ob for underworld dreams since i dont have the approaches yet (they are in the mail). ive also changed sideboard to this:
im thinking the crypts will become artifact/enchantment hate in case of spreading seas/seas claim or chalice. also debating if land destrucion is a thing or not with bbe being around yes I know Panza exist but I don't know how favorable it is at the moment
its not bad but i purposely run creatureless. it makes their removal useless. this list i posted above with the sphinxs is the 1st time ive ran creatures in my list in about 7 yrs. crawler wouldnt be bad if you arent in a meta full of removal or artifact hate but i try to keep the deck as uninteractive as possible. your best wincons are gonna be enchantment based or planeswalker based. then g2 and g3, you are better running something else to win with.
I basically agree with your perspective on psychosis crawler.
Will try to come up with a solid UW list, going for maximum consistency
and a high number of sweepers.
true. i would only run it as a 2 of if i do. its been a while since I ran a list with spiteful visions. I'm a just keep the fevered visions and run ebony owl netsuke with some curse of exhaustion .
Sudden Spoiling Good fog that only doesn't work against affinity. But the plus side is it is uncounterable.
Settle the Wreckage instant fog that resets the board and pulls all basic lands out the deck for a faster mill. The exile effect is also not completely useless.
Would Sudden Spoiling only be bad against affinty because of cranial plating?
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
+1/+1 counters are also unaffected so Arcbound Ravager and Cranial Plating both.
spoiling seems good if we need an uncounterable way to fog. id say if you have a lot of control, go for it.
on wreckage... i like the exile in some cases. and t does help mill a little so maybe it has a home in some lists. im keepig to my supreme verdicts for now.
theyre are about 10 cards or so that grant you hexproof/shroud. Three of which are creatures and only one won't die to a bolt. The rest are so slow that a burn player should be on the brink of beating us at that point. This is why leyline is so important for beating burn because you can drop it turn zero and in games two and three that doesn't always do it for you so you will have to have other side board hate for burn. I run ley-lines main deck to stop all things that Target me. Most combos win by targeting and those that don't go wide which are deck doesn't care about. My sideboard has a few counters and cards that let me name a specific card and gain protection from it and make it so that card can't be played. I will list all the hexproof cards if you would like but if you go and do a gather search for modern cards with the text "you can't be the target," that will show you all you need
The only other thing I suggest is running fogs that prevent all damage. not just combat dmg. dawn charm is also nice. in my sideboard, i have negates and runed halo but halo is expensive. i also have 2 copies of CoP: red. i find halo useful against eidolon since every fog in my list is a 1 drop. CoP red will negate their burn for 1 generic. lifegain is also burns bane if you have enough of it. its hard for them to beat you if you have enough. i was toying with rest for the weary but theres better cards like CoP red. i picked up a set of the new sphere to combat tron bc thats also a very hard match up
Exactly. As long as your play environment doesn't have a ton of them spoiling is definitely a main deck option.
Supreme is probably the best board clearing fog there is. Love it. My adds were because the primer didn't list them. They are great options as is verdict.
There was someone that I was working on the primer with and giving him my ideas. He was supposed to log into my account and adjust the primer but he disappeared and I'm not qualified to do a primer because I have no idea how to get images up or create the scroll down menus. I'm just an avid player of turbofog and have tried every possible win condition and combination of colors possible so I feel I'm pretty knowledgeable up until recently since I haven't had a lot of time to play. I think the best way to when is probably either with a planeswalker ultimate, alternate win condition, or the mindslaver lock
have you tried approach of the second sun yet? seems solid in this deck.
on the primer, I would recomend you compile the info here on what cards and colors are best and maybe have some decklists so somebody else can edit it to include it all in the primer.
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
if you are interewted, i could hand the primer over to you. and approach to me is a great wincon. its counter resilient
I don't know if I'm really qualified to run this primer, I only play pauper turbo fog, and I don't have the data or the knowledge on this deck to be able to properly rewrite the primer. I do plan to test this deck a little bit this summer, since it looks like fun and seems pretty well positioned, but as it stands I'll have to turn down your offer.
Thanks for the offer though.
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
If you want that slot dedicated to trying to win then the trap is pretty amazing.
Edit: also don't feel that you need trap, visions, and approach all in the same deck. The win con should be narrowed and more survival included.
If you want damage then go damage. If you want approach then play silence and gigadrowse. Remember the first approach doesn't have to resolve. Only the second one has to. So hitting them with a big gigadrowse the turn before you plan to win is great. Just requires a lot of blue mana. Well only enough to tap there blue lands anyways. Silence is good, but if against counters they will have a few counters you have to fight through.
2 hallowed fountin
1 watery grave
1 godless shrine
3 glacial fortress
2 drowned catacomb
2 isolated chapel
3 swamp
3 plains
2 island
4 temple bell
3 dictate of kruphix
4 ethereal haze
4 holy day
4 darkness
4 dawn charm
2 supreme verdict
4 leyline of sanctity
2 elixir of immortality
2 ob nixilis reignited
4 negate
2 runed halo
2 circle of protection: red
2 pithing needle
1 oblivion ring
1 detention sphere
2 sphinx of the final word
1 sphinx of jwar isle
ob is fun but approach is better. 4 leyline main is sometimes an auto win and stops a lot of combos from winning by targeting. sideboard is also gonna change. 4 negates is for tron. hits chalice on 1. hits karn/ugin or oblivion stone. not sure if its good against eldrazi charm bc i havent played modern in awhile. runed halo and cop: red along with negates can help against burn. halo is mostly for eidolon otgr. needle is for planeswalkers or anything with abilities. o-ring and d-sphere for problematic perms. sphinxs were an alt win con over ob in games 2 and 3 bc they cant be touched.
i have 4 damping spheres i want in sb and 3 tomods crypts, also for sb, if theyre are needed in modern right now. help with sb would be nice since idk the decks in modern right now
so before tonights fnm, im looking at weather i should swap out ob for underworld dreams since i dont have the approaches yet (they are in the mail). ive also changed sideboard to this:
3 damping sphere
2 tormod's crypt
2 pithing needle
2 runed halo
2 circle of protection: red
1 detention sphere
im thinking the crypts will become artifact/enchantment hate in case of spreading seas/seas claim or chalice. also debating if land destrucion is a thing or not with bbe being around yes I know Panza exist but I don't know how favorable it is at the moment
Will try to come up with a solid UW list, going for maximum consistency
and a high number of sweepers.