I think for a laugh I want to try Mortuary Mire and Pack Rat. The "Go wide" ability of the card is useful in some cases. I don't think it's a winning strategy, but it's a fun idea.
It's been a long time since I first saw this deck, and I instantly fell in love with it, since it perfectly fits my playstyle and it's really fun to play.
I have played it in some small tournaments (20 players max) with pretty good results. Playing against any kind of control deck feels like cheating, because of all your recoursable cards, the loam/raven's crime/tec edge lock and the playset of souls (yes, also against grixis). Creature based decks are also good matchups, with our good removal package, but against super aggro decks I don't always find time to stabilize. The MU against midrange decks also feels in our favour, again because of our recursion.
That being said, I struggle against linear "autistic" combo decks, like Burn (if you consider burn being a combo deck), Ad Nauseam or Living End. Since we don't have maindeck answers to their game plan (counters/targeted discard) and we lack a strong clock to pressure their life total, we have almost no chance in first games. That's why I tried to focus my sideboard against that strategies, also adding 1 red source to the manabase for some SB slots. Here's my list:
The list is pretty solid overall, and adding the 4th colour haven't caused any problem. The inclusion of Ancient Grudge is definitely worth it, such a good card in dredge decks. The same with Slaughter Games. Tasigur comes in against decks where we don't want Haakon at all, but we need a fast and cheap clock. He also fills our graveyard, which can be useful. And Timely Reinforcements have overperformed in the Burn/aggro MUs. I used to play with Leylines, but almost never found them in my initial 7. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Anyway, this sideboard strategy have worked pretty well, but I'm sure there's still room for improvement.
I'm also testing Shambling Vent instead of Vault of the Archangel, bacause I was mulliganing too often due to colorless lands in my initial hands. It's not the kind of Orzhov manland I was expecting, but it showed to be useful.
I'm glad to see this this thread alive again. What do you guys think? Feedback would be appreciated.
You're right, Vault truly shines in Lingering Souls decks, and this one is no exception. And gaining 5-15 life with a Knight block/attack can get you out of many troubles.
Maybe I'll need to add another Urborg to fix the black mana issue in the early game, cause there's nothing more frustrating than having the perfect scenario for a turn 2 Smallpox and not being able to cast it
Hello, everyone. I have been putting some work into putting this deck together recently, but would like opinions on something I wish to test. For lack of Lillies and to shore up the burn matchup, I am curious how you guys feel about running a few more creatures to add potency to a sideboarded Gnaw to Bone. The cards I am particularly looking at are Fiendslayer Paladin and maybe Mirran Crusader. If the manabase doesn't cooperate I might just settle for Phyrexian Crusader and Stromgald Crusader.
With these cards in mind, this is the list I intend to run for a couple weeks:
There are some obvious budget considerations (damnation vs wrath), but my intent is to risk having less control elements in favor of having a better gameplan vs burn and an easier time opponents on a clock when the need to race arises. I obviously need to refine it a lot, and possibly am just using an entirely stupid idea, but on the other hand... yolo.
I think it looks fairly solid, but I have to ask whether it performs better against burn than keeping more control and running Timely Reinforcements. Might I recommend Stillmoon Cavalier as well?
Splash red for the new enchantment that is R and let's you do damage for discarding lands it helps in this deck a lot to control board and provide inevitably .. there is a new land that lets you put creature from graveyard. It's worth a look.
Someone did real well with the red splash at a Star City Games tournament a month or two ago.
I have found the list needs another fetchable Red source. I think a Stomping Grounds thats normally the one I want. I also feel like it needs another Haakon. Once you get that ball rolling you can control the table, but more than once I have spent turns digging and not finding that Knight. Also I have at times cast Imp and Namelessed him so I could dredge. You need that extra Haakon.
Has anyone tried Chameleon Colossus? I'm gonna be running one for a little while to see how it works out, but I'd appreciate any feedback if someone else has experimented with it.
I often find that I don't have enough cards in my graveyard that I'm willing to part with for a Tasigur, the Golden Fang, although I have been messing around with Mortuary Mire a bit since it was released. Instead of Tasigur, the Golden Fang I've been using Eternal Witness as a way to buy back Smallpox, Liliana of the Veil, Damnation, etc. I like it against some of the grindier stuff I run into, but there's so little of that that it's not worth running I think. If I did decide to just go for a big delve creature I think I'd rather have a Tombstalker.
Speaking of big flying Demons, I think running some amount of Abyssal Persecutor will be my next experiment. Probably just in the side against decks where you want some bigger and better threats earlier, and it's real easy for us to get rid of. It fulfills kind of the same purpose that the Chameleon Colossus I've been running in the board has been, but I want to see how this feels after I get some matches with it, maybe I'll like it better even if it doesn't have the graveyard synergy.
I often find that I don't have enough cards in my graveyard that I'm willing to part with for a Tasigur, the Golden Fang, although I have been messing around with Mortuary Mire a bit since it was released. Instead of Tasigur, the Golden Fang I've been using Eternal Witness as a way to buy back Smallpox, Liliana of the Veil, Damnation, etc. I like it against some of the grindier stuff I run into, but there's so little of that that it's not worth running I think. If I did decide to just go for a big delve creature I think I'd rather have a Tombstalker.
Speaking of big flying Demons, I think running some amount of Abyssal Persecutor will be my next experiment. Probably just in the side against decks where you want some bigger and better threats earlier, and it's real easy for us to get rid of. It fulfills kind of the same purpose that the Chameleon Colossus I've been running in the board has been, but I want to see how this feels after I get some matches with it, maybe I'll like it better even if it doesn't have the graveyard synergy.
Would you mind posting your list with Eternal Witness?
I'm thinking of building this deck or dredgevine. Against the commons T1/T2 decks, which one do you think is stronger?
Never played Vine, but from watch it go it's a far more proactive approach. As a control player, I rather this and while I might not kill as fast, I will be having more fun.
I'm having ok results with haakon on xmage and I'm liking the deck so for. I will try dredgevine and see how the deck goes, but looking on paper the deck seems to not be as fast as common aggro decks and neither can control those decks, it seems to be good against control decks, because you can recast your creatures all the time.
I'm pretty excited since the new Olivia, Mobilized for War was spoiled, since it's a knight and can have great sinergies with our deck (Olivia into KotR, swing for lethal?), plus the discard effect is nothing but great in our deck. What do you guys think? I am definitely gonna give it a try.
The idea of having 2/2 hasty flyers when casting lingering souls sounds pretty decent too.
I feel this deck is outclassed by the Raphael Levy Pox deck. Similar theme over there. You could probably still use KOTR if you wanted, but forcing Haakon & Nameless isn't going very far.
Well, I force Haakon and Nameless the same way Company players "force" Melira, Finks and Seer. I could go to every modern thread right now and write: "Guys, don't force your gameplan, ya'll get outclassed by Eldrazi", the same way u did here.
I'm trying to come up with an interesting option for THIS deck in particular, so if you feel Levy's deck is better go ahead and play it, good for you.
I know this will sound weird to you guys at first but... What are your thoughts on splashing Tree of Retribution into this deck? Sure it's four mana, but if we have an Haakon in play and Nameless Inversion in the graveyard, it is basically a death threat as you can pay 6 in total to drop the tree to 3 toughness in response to it's ability, steal your opponent's health and hit him with whatever. Even without the full combo, it can still drain up to 7 health on the first activation(not even talking about Soul Sisters), blocks for days (it blocks most of the creatures in the format without dying really), can turn Nameless Inversions and Dismembers into 3-4 damages spells on the opponent, can use the aforementioned cards to go under hexproof in a sense,etc. The only real downside is that it isn't a Knight to be brought back by Haakon. (Treefolk Knight anyone? jk, makes no sense.)
I have no idea if anyone is still playing or testing the deck, but I have been playing and testing this deck for the past 2 months in the hopes of bringing it to a modern GP event. I have been having a lot of fun playing this deck, as I find Life from the Loam to be my favorite magic card, and that this deck pushes the boundaries of what it means to make good decisions.
This current list considers EldraziTron/Tron, Death's Shadow variants, Affinity, Abzan CoCo, BGx midrange, Burn, Storm, RG Titanshift, UWx control, and Death and Taxes as it's main focus (MTGTOP8 lists these decks as a combined 64% of the meta the past 2 months as of 10/27/2017). I will do best to explain my reasoning for the above list, as well as newer card choices I have ran through.
The difference between my list and bGnomes's list comes first from the manabase. I agree with previous assessments that we are no longer in an age where tectonic edge is the leading strategy to disrupt lands. Far too many decks are running not enough basics, and, more importantly, do NOT need 4 lands to win a game of Magic. Of the above mentioned decks, Ghost quarter is a live card against every matchup but Abzan CoCo (even then, they only run 2 forests and a plains. long games can easily shut them off of white.)Eldrazi/tron are running 2 wastes/1-2 basic forests/swamps. Death's Shadow decks are running 1-2 basics (VERY easy to steal wins against grixis shadow by getting them off blue and red). Shut down the Affinity manlands. Shut down the BGx manlands and take them off their splash color. take burn off of green then white. take storm off of RED (they are running 1 mountain and you can punish this easily.) Take RG titanshift off of valakuts or sometimes even green mana. stopping UW control from getting cryptic mana and stopping colonnades is huge. Even in death and taxes you can hold your ghost quarter land drop until after they play leonin arbiter (which is better than what tec edge was doing in this matchup). Finally, Blood Moon is a strong card in the current meta and you should expect to see it. leaving GQ open on t3 to get a forest for life from the loam can mean a lot.
Other land changes include the maindeck inclusion of bojuka bog. I feel like not much is needed to explain here, other than he amount of suupplemental graveyard strategies are hot right now. Hissing Quagmire has won me some games because he is another way to have recurrable removal. I definitely believe that this is the best manland we could be using, although I could also see shaving a godless shrine for a Shambling Vent as well. The last land change was playing scattered groves over horizon canopy. This may be one of the strongest utility lands I have been using. smallpoxing this into the graveyard and looaming it back feels amazing, not to mention it gives you protection from surgical/relic if you cycle and dredge in response. Also, I am playing 1 less land overall, but that may be wrong (maybe -1 maelstrom pulse +1 shambling vent is also right.)
As for the Maindeck choices, not much different here other than 3 smallpox over 4 because of the 1 fewer land. I also have opted for 3 maelstrom pulse and 1 abrupt decay. This is because when playtesting, I found that tasigurs and reality smashers would take over games very easily if not answered, and because no deck currently demands abrupt decay and not maelstrom pulse (Thanks, Splinter twin/summer bloom bans). also improves the abzan matchup, and hurts affinity and abzan coco slightly.
Onto Sideboard choices, I felt the 4 Leyline of Sanctity were nothing short of mandatory. It just comes in so many matchups. Grixis and Jund Shadow can't hand disrupt or Lightning Bolt/Kolaghan's command you, Storm can't Gifts Ungiven you or Grapeshot you (and now you have 3 pulses to deal with their Empty the warrens), AND it still helps one of our worst current meta matchups, Burn.
Surgical Extraction is a card I keep going back and forth over, but my decision to play this over Leyline of the Void is because Dredge is not very prominent right now, and a lot of decks are either threat light, or only have 1 good answer to you. Surgical also helps combo matchups even more, because many players may be tempted to discard their additional combo piece from a raven's crime or smallpox. I find myself casting Surgical Extracion most often after I Edict my opponent's first death's shadow,or after I ghost quarter'd their first Tron land, you get the idea. To highlight, this is the other reason for running 3 ghost quarters because Tron and Scapeshift might auto lose against you if you have Ghost quarter + Surgical Extraction.
2 more abrupt decays still found their way into the sideboard as I found myself liking 5 ways to answer a rest in peace in the 75, and as additional fast removal for Death's shadow decks and other aggro decks.
Notably, I have tested the following cards and have not chosen to play them, but are worth further testing and can be great in certain metas: Courser of Kruphix, Call the Bloodline, Fatal Push, and Collective Brutality. Of these, the best performing was Fatal Push, but i felt that decks that were fast enough to want push in were handled by darkblast/inversion, with the exception of death's shadow which i feel maelstrom pulse is a slower, but potentially better answer to. Devoted druid being a 0/2 is kind of annoying but nothing a double darkblast can't handle. Call the bloodline was a card I initially was playing 4 of in the maindeck, as a way to improve the burn matchup and to stall creature decks on the ground while dredging loam and gaining life and still hitting land drops. I still maintain this is a valid approach to take with this deck, but this list is so tight that I felt that any other cards that get cut are not worth a couple 1/1 lifelinks and a non graveyard card in hand. Collective brutality feels amazing when you get to pitch lands and get them back from life from the loam, but overall I did not feel like it impacted enough Non-burn matchups over other cards to continue playing (which is why I elected to have the whole playset of leylines.) Lastly, although Courser of Kruphix is a wonderful residual land-dropping, life-gaining machine, I feel the current metagame was too big or too removal heavy to warrant playing him.
I like where Haakon Loam can be given the current metagame. Careful play allows you to (generally speaking) edict the go big decks, darkblast/knight the small decks, and raven's crime/Ghost Quarter the control decks. I think a lot of matchups are closer to 50/50 than favorable or not favorable, and I found myself losing more game 1's than game 2 or 3's, because I could not assess which type of hands were good until I knew what I was playing.
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Good to see this thread has non-zero monitoring! I was going to respond more promptly, but I wanted to get more reps with the deck before giving you a full reply. I will go ahead and answer your questions in their numbered orders, as well as talk about changes since last week. I am trying out 2 ghost quarters and 1 tec edge main, and cutting 1 stony silence for a thrun the last troll, and cutting 1 surgical extraction for the third ghost quarter. I've been practicing the 15 in 15 out sideboarding technique (a technique i recommend all magic players try to get used to) and found that the third surgical never really came in. The third stony silence I would agree is a litle overkill, and may or may not show up, I just wanted to know i had some very favorable matchups going into this modern GP.
1. Of the previously mentioned matchups, I would rank them loosely as follows:
EldraziTron = very good, although game 1's can be lost due to keeping hands geared towards different decks. After sideboard still stays very good, as their main form of graveyard hate is Relic, which the stony silences you are bringing in anyways stops that. -2 darkblast -1 bojuka bog -1 nameless inversion +1 damnation +2 stony silence +1 tectonic edge is what I have been doing so far.
Tron = pretty good, unless they natural tron you game 1 or you have kept a creature removal type hand g1. After Sideboarding, I'd say it gets even better,as you have access to surgical extraction + ghost quarter, as if ghost quarter wasnt enough. -2 darkblast -1 bojuka bog -2 nameless inversion -1 lingering souls +2 stony silence +2 surgical extraction +1 ghost quarter +1 tectonic edge is what I have been doing so far
Death's Shadow variants = about even, although I have preferred playing against Grixis shadow more than Jund or 4 color Shadow more. the Traverse/Tarmogoyf plan just lets green Death's Shadow decks get a big board presence too fast. this is a matchup where I wish I had the abrupt decays and even fatal pushes over other removal, but between Maelstrom Pulse, Smallpox, Liliana of the Veil, and Lingering Souls, you have plenty of ammunition to fight here. After sideboarding, I still feel this matchup has been even. I have found our deck to be especially weak to Liliana the Last Hope when backed up with good threats. usual graveyard hate here is Nihil Spellbomb, which is good for us because this is a good matchup to bring Leylines in. -1 Haakon -1 nameless inversion -1 tectonic edge -2 darkblast -3 raven's crime +4 leyline of sanctity +2 abrupt decay +1 ghost quarter +1 damnation seems to be consistent, although the exact plan depends on if they are grixis, jund, or 4/5 color.
Affinity = good, this matchup has been talked about a lot already so I wont go into too much detail. another matchup where maelstrom pulse is inferior, but still gets the job done (sometimes better since affinity players almost always overextend game 1 against BGx matchups). -3 raven's crime -2 liliana of the veil -1 knight of the Reliquary -1 bojuka bog +2 Abrupt Decay +2 stony silence +1 Damnation +1 Ghost Quarter +1 darkblast. make sure to save etched champion removal because he WILL kill you.
Abzan CoCo = even/slightly unfavored, one of the most skill intensive matchups I have found (not to say this deck isn't skill intensive to begin with). it is almost never correct to use spot removal on anything besides combo pieces, even though it is tempting to nameless inversion their turn 1 bird when you are on the play. I wouldnt even darkblast it, t2 devoted druid t3 vizier cant be interrupted by 1 casting of darkblast. after sideboard I feel it doesn't change too much matchup wise. -2 maelstrom pulse -2 liliana of the veil -1 raven's crime -1 life from the loam +1 darkblast +1 damnation +2 surgical extraction +2 abrupt decay is what I have been doing, but not ma be optimal. I like having surgicals to disrupt the combo, because if we can do that the matchup becomes favorable.
BGx midrange = even,seige rhinos don't see much play anymore, and maelstrom pulse is the better removal spell here, killing their lingering souls then playing yours feels good. as for Jund, slightly worse due to kolaghan's command and lightning bolt, but definitely still winnable. again, this matchup is tlaked about and wont delve too deep. against jund, -2 darkblast -3 raven's crime -1 haakon, stronghold scourge -1 ghost quarter -1 knight of the reliquary +4 leyline of Sanctity +2 abrupt decay +1 tectonic edge +1 thrun, the last troll. Against Abzan, I dont bring in leylines if I won g1 because some players take out the hand disruption, others keep them in. If i lost, I bring them in because their discard can get rid of key cards we need to win. Otherwise, similar to above.
Burn = very unfavored. our biggest comfort is that it does not dominate tables like it did back in 2014-2015, but an unanswered Eidolon of the Great Revel spells our fate. otherwise, this matchup as we all know just sucks. +4 leyline +1 abrupt decay +1 ghost quarter -1 bojuka bog -2 damnation -3 maelstrom pulse and hope for the best?
Storm = slightly unfavored. smallpox and raven's crim are MVP here, but don't forget you need a clock or no amount of disruption matters here. games feel very unwinnable if you don't have some kind of repeatable discard or getting them off of red, otherwise just jam haakon/souls/knights game 1 as fast as you can. post board you get better here, storm doesn't bring in much for you, but you have the knowledge of what type of hands to keep. -2 darkblast -2 stinkweed imp -1 liliana of the veil -2 lingering souls -1 abrupt decay +4 leyline of sanctity +2 surgical extraction +1 damnation +1 Thrun the last troll. clock + disruption is the plan, as well as Leyline + maelstrom pulse/damnation to keep them off empty the warrens/grapshot.
RG Titanshift = slightly unfavored? I have a hard time judging this matchup even after hours of playtesting this specific matchup. The problem with Titanshift is that they are a combo deck that always topdecks good stuff, so once you see that its titanshift, switch gears to trying to be the beatdown, disrupt aggressively, and land souls tokens or knights asap. you will likely lose the long game game 1, unless you found your land disruption. even then. they topdeck scapeshifts, man. sometimes it happens. note that most scapeshift lists run 3-4 valakuts and 13-14 mountains, can be critical when assessing whether to hold back with ghost quarters or not. after sideboarding, I feel it turns into even/slightly favored, -2 darkblast -2 nameless inversion -2 stinkweed imp -1 abrupt decay -1 bojuka bog +4 leyline of sanctity +2 surgical extraction +1 tectonic edge +1 ghost quarter
UWx control = even, unfavored if they play red. matchups are talked about on front page, but i'll talk about new goodies they have. Spell Queller feels like the dirtiest card anyone could resolve against you. stops so many of our key engine plans with tempo. non red variants will likely counter life from the loam if they know what their doing, as it takes investment on our end to devote to having to "cast" our lands. if they just play UW I feel better about the matchup, but the red or black splashes hurt us. there are so many variations of these decks currently that i don't have a good sideboard strategy yet. just assess what you see game one and think critically of why you lost
Death and Taxes = Favored, many of our cards do work here, and the primer touches on this matchup so I won't go into detail. Sideboard plans are -1 raven's crime -1 knight of the reliquary -1 liliana of the veil -1 life from the loam -1 bojuka bog +1 damnation +1 darkblast +2 abrupt decay +1 ghost quarter
Hopefully i will create a more in depth analysis, but for now I am just answering your questions(maybe I will take over the primer and update relevant information?). I do not play on MTGO, I almost strictly play in paper, alhough I do test on cockatrice fairly often. I may record my playing if this thread becomes semi active again.
2. see opening paragraph, I agree as of now but it does feel good to know you have great odds against some meta decks as a rogue deck.
3. have been testing your suggestion, but KotR getting tec edge is not enough to beat Titanshift game 1. I can not exaggerate when i say raven's crime is the best card in that matchup.I do like how it gives me better game to slower decks like UW control, however, so there's that. I'll report later on how i feel about this iteration.
4. I have personally owned and played ad nauseum many times, and I would dread to wander into this matchup. Ad nauseum needs many resources, and raven's crime, ghost quarter, post board stony silence/abrupt decay, liliana, maelstrom pulse, all do heavy work. we don't have targeted discard, but if they aren't discarding their combo pesices it means raven's crime is either hitting cantrips or mana, both really needed for them to win fast. they bring in leylines against us g2 so keep in all maelstorm pulses, but overall I think it is fine. this is all theory, however, as I have not devoted time to playtesting this yet. As I said, I have played ad nauseum so I am not worried about this matchup. will add more once I do playtest, however.
I am new to mtgsalvation overall, but I would love to rejuvinate this deck into Developing Competetive. I do not know where to go to do that, so if you do, please direct the way to me so I can update this deck for the current meta!
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Funny you should mention, I have been testing 1-2 Vona, Butcher of Magan in the 75 and have really been liking it. knowing you have a dredge out to nonland permanents in slower matchups is nice, and it is one more card that can win against burn if we can slow them down. I will have some more to report in the next day or two, i misplaced a Haakon the other (k)night and ordered a replacement online. will do some more testing, but I still maintain that this deck has loads of power in the current metagame, although the loam engine is just outclassed in terms of speed by many decks. I do not recommend just anyone go out and build this deck, you have to have your mind set on playing a grindy slow control oriented deck abusing graveyard strategies in an unforgiving metagame. I definitely have felt demotivated playing this deck, but there are other times where you just feel unstoppable. Maybe its just my local metagame, but darkblast and nameless inversion are not very good cards when you go up against Thought-Knot Seers, Tarmogoyfs, Death's Shadows, and Tasigurs so frequently. makes me wonder if these cards just don't hold up like they used to.
Anywho, Vona is sweet and feels better than batterskull when your oppnent doesnt have graveyard hate, and a great non-graveyard wincon when they do.
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I've been playing Raphael Levy's zombie loam deck for a few years now, and had some decent FNM success (when i've been able to play). I am very interested in trying this deck out as it seems to have a very similar play style to zombie loam. Does anyone have a basic decklist that I could play around with?
Also, did anyone see Saffron Olive's new "instant deck tech" video about Haakon storm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fj9kSHTb9o). It looks pretty fun to play. Maybe you guys could "splash" the combo in the regular Haakon loam deck?
Seconded for a current shell to tweak. Thinking of making this my second deck since I've always been a fan, and some of the new vampire knights seem pretty sweet. Vona and Elenda specifically. I could even see a slight red splash for Olivia but that seems overkill.
My meta is also slacking on grave hate so that's nice too
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
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Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
It's been a long time since I first saw this deck, and I instantly fell in love with it, since it perfectly fits my playstyle and it's really fun to play.
I have played it in some small tournaments (20 players max) with pretty good results. Playing against any kind of control deck feels like cheating, because of all your recoursable cards, the loam/raven's crime/tec edge lock and the playset of souls (yes, also against grixis). Creature based decks are also good matchups, with our good removal package, but against super aggro decks I don't always find time to stabilize. The MU against midrange decks also feels in our favour, again because of our recursion.
That being said, I struggle against linear "autistic" combo decks, like Burn (if you consider burn being a combo deck), Ad Nauseam or Living End. Since we don't have maindeck answers to their game plan (counters/targeted discard) and we lack a strong clock to pressure their life total, we have almost no chance in first games. That's why I tried to focus my sideboard against that strategies, also adding 1 red source to the manabase for some SB slots. Here's my list:
4x Marsh Flats
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Godless Shrine
1x Temple Garden
1x Blood Crypt
3x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Shambling Vent
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Ghost Quarter
3x Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
3x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Stinkweed Imp
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Murderous Cut
2x Darkblast
3x Nameless Inversion
1x Damnation
4x Smallpox
4x Life from the Loam
4x Lingering Souls
2x Raven's Crime
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Ancient Grudge
3x Timely Reinforcements
3x Duress
1x Damnation
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Slaughter Games
The list is pretty solid overall, and adding the 4th colour haven't caused any problem. The inclusion of Ancient Grudge is definitely worth it, such a good card in dredge decks. The same with Slaughter Games. Tasigur comes in against decks where we don't want Haakon at all, but we need a fast and cheap clock. He also fills our graveyard, which can be useful. And Timely Reinforcements have overperformed in the Burn/aggro MUs. I used to play with Leylines, but almost never found them in my initial 7. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Anyway, this sideboard strategy have worked pretty well, but I'm sure there's still room for improvement.
I'm also testing Shambling Vent instead of Vault of the Archangel, bacause I was mulliganing too often due to colorless lands in my initial hands. It's not the kind of Orzhov manland I was expecting, but it showed to be useful.
I'm glad to see this this thread alive again. What do you guys think? Feedback would be appreciated.
Maybe I'll need to add another Urborg to fix the black mana issue in the early game, cause there's nothing more frustrating than having the perfect scenario for a turn 2 Smallpox and not being able to cast it
With these cards in mind, this is the list I intend to run for a couple weeks:
3 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Stromgald Crusader
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Stinkweed Imp
Instants/Sorceries 21
3 Raven's Crime
4 Life from the Loam
2 Nameless Inversion
2 Darkblast
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Smallpox
3 Lingering Souls
1 Wrath of God
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
2 Godless Shrine
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Blighted Fen
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Darkblast
1 Nameless Inversion
1 Lingering Souls
3 Gnaw to Bone
3 Nature's Claim
1 Knight of Infamy
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Pithing Needle
1 Wrath of God
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ray of Revelation
There are some obvious budget considerations (damnation vs wrath), but my intent is to risk having less control elements in favor of having a better gameplan vs burn and an easier time opponents on a clock when the need to race arises. I obviously need to refine it a lot, and possibly am just using an entirely stupid idea, but on the other hand... yolo.
I think it looks fairly solid, but I have to ask whether it performs better against burn than keeping more control and running Timely Reinforcements. Might I recommend Stillmoon Cavalier as well?
WUB Puresteel Midrange WUB
Splash red for the new enchantment that is R and let's you do damage for discarding lands it helps in this deck a lot to control board and provide inevitably .. there is a new land that lets you put creature from graveyard. It's worth a look.
Someone did real well with the red splash at a Star City Games tournament a month or two ago.
I have found the list needs another fetchable Red source. I think a Stomping Grounds thats normally the one I want. I also feel like it needs another Haakon. Once you get that ball rolling you can control the table, but more than once I have spent turns digging and not finding that Knight. Also I have at times cast Imp and Namelessed him so I could dredge. You need that extra Haakon.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
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BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Speaking of big flying Demons, I think running some amount of Abyssal Persecutor will be my next experiment. Probably just in the side against decks where you want some bigger and better threats earlier, and it's real easy for us to get rid of. It fulfills kind of the same purpose that the Chameleon Colossus I've been running in the board has been, but I want to see how this feels after I get some matches with it, maybe I'll like it better even if it doesn't have the graveyard synergy.
Would you mind posting your list with Eternal Witness?
I'm thinking of building this deck or dredgevine. Against the commons T1/T2 decks, which one do you think is stronger?
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
I'm pretty excited since the new Olivia, Mobilized for War was spoiled, since it's a knight and can have great sinergies with our deck (Olivia into KotR, swing for lethal?), plus the discard effect is nothing but great in our deck. What do you guys think? I am definitely gonna give it a try.
The idea of having 2/2 hasty flyers when casting lingering souls sounds pretty decent too.
Draft My Cube!
I'm trying to come up with an interesting option for THIS deck in particular, so if you feel Levy's deck is better go ahead and play it, good for you.
MODERN:
RG Shamanism RG
WUG Blades of the Avatars WUG
LEGACY:
WUBRG Cascabalance WUBRG
Made by the amazing Traproot
"Some say the clockwork doesn't speak... I say they are deaf to it's voice." -Daeren, Artificer Druid.
Archester Revival (Custom Steampunk set)
3 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Stinkweed Imp
Instants
3 Nameless Inversion
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Darkblast
Lands
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Scattered Groves
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
1 Hissing Quagmire
3 Liliana of the Veil
Sorceries
4 Life from the Loam
3 Smallpox
4 Lingering Souls
3 Raven's Crime
2 Damnation
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Darkblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Damnation
This current list considers EldraziTron/Tron, Death's Shadow variants, Affinity, Abzan CoCo, BGx midrange, Burn, Storm, RG Titanshift, UWx control, and Death and Taxes as it's main focus (MTGTOP8 lists these decks as a combined 64% of the meta the past 2 months as of 10/27/2017). I will do best to explain my reasoning for the above list, as well as newer card choices I have ran through.
The difference between my list and bGnomes's list comes first from the manabase. I agree with previous assessments that we are no longer in an age where tectonic edge is the leading strategy to disrupt lands. Far too many decks are running not enough basics, and, more importantly, do NOT need 4 lands to win a game of Magic. Of the above mentioned decks, Ghost quarter is a live card against every matchup but Abzan CoCo (even then, they only run 2 forests and a plains. long games can easily shut them off of white.)Eldrazi/tron are running 2 wastes/1-2 basic forests/swamps. Death's Shadow decks are running 1-2 basics (VERY easy to steal wins against grixis shadow by getting them off blue and red). Shut down the Affinity manlands. Shut down the BGx manlands and take them off their splash color. take burn off of green then white. take storm off of RED (they are running 1 mountain and you can punish this easily.) Take RG titanshift off of valakuts or sometimes even green mana. stopping UW control from getting cryptic mana and stopping colonnades is huge. Even in death and taxes you can hold your ghost quarter land drop until after they play leonin arbiter (which is better than what tec edge was doing in this matchup). Finally, Blood Moon is a strong card in the current meta and you should expect to see it. leaving GQ open on t3 to get a forest for life from the loam can mean a lot.
Other land changes include the maindeck inclusion of bojuka bog. I feel like not much is needed to explain here, other than he amount of suupplemental graveyard strategies are hot right now. Hissing Quagmire has won me some games because he is another way to have recurrable removal. I definitely believe that this is the best manland we could be using, although I could also see shaving a godless shrine for a Shambling Vent as well. The last land change was playing scattered groves over horizon canopy. This may be one of the strongest utility lands I have been using. smallpoxing this into the graveyard and looaming it back feels amazing, not to mention it gives you protection from surgical/relic if you cycle and dredge in response. Also, I am playing 1 less land overall, but that may be wrong (maybe -1 maelstrom pulse +1 shambling vent is also right.)
As for the Maindeck choices, not much different here other than 3 smallpox over 4 because of the 1 fewer land. I also have opted for 3 maelstrom pulse and 1 abrupt decay. This is because when playtesting, I found that tasigurs and reality smashers would take over games very easily if not answered, and because no deck currently demands abrupt decay and not maelstrom pulse (Thanks, Splinter twin/summer bloom bans). also improves the abzan matchup, and hurts affinity and abzan coco slightly.
Onto Sideboard choices, I felt the 4 Leyline of Sanctity were nothing short of mandatory. It just comes in so many matchups. Grixis and Jund Shadow can't hand disrupt or Lightning Bolt/Kolaghan's command you, Storm can't Gifts Ungiven you or Grapeshot you (and now you have 3 pulses to deal with their Empty the warrens), AND it still helps one of our worst current meta matchups, Burn.
Surgical Extraction is a card I keep going back and forth over, but my decision to play this over Leyline of the Void is because Dredge is not very prominent right now, and a lot of decks are either threat light, or only have 1 good answer to you. Surgical also helps combo matchups even more, because many players may be tempted to discard their additional combo piece from a raven's crime or smallpox. I find myself casting Surgical Extracion most often after I Edict my opponent's first death's shadow,or after I ghost quarter'd their first Tron land, you get the idea. To highlight, this is the other reason for running 3 ghost quarters because Tron and Scapeshift might auto lose against you if you have Ghost quarter + Surgical Extraction.
2 more abrupt decays still found their way into the sideboard as I found myself liking 5 ways to answer a rest in peace in the 75, and as additional fast removal for Death's shadow decks and other aggro decks.
Notably, I have tested the following cards and have not chosen to play them, but are worth further testing and can be great in certain metas: Courser of Kruphix, Call the Bloodline, Fatal Push, and Collective Brutality. Of these, the best performing was Fatal Push, but i felt that decks that were fast enough to want push in were handled by darkblast/inversion, with the exception of death's shadow which i feel maelstrom pulse is a slower, but potentially better answer to. Devoted druid being a 0/2 is kind of annoying but nothing a double darkblast can't handle. Call the bloodline was a card I initially was playing 4 of in the maindeck, as a way to improve the burn matchup and to stall creature decks on the ground while dredging loam and gaining life and still hitting land drops. I still maintain this is a valid approach to take with this deck, but this list is so tight that I felt that any other cards that get cut are not worth a couple 1/1 lifelinks and a non graveyard card in hand. Collective brutality feels amazing when you get to pitch lands and get them back from life from the loam, but overall I did not feel like it impacted enough Non-burn matchups over other cards to continue playing (which is why I elected to have the whole playset of leylines.) Lastly, although Courser of Kruphix is a wonderful residual land-dropping, life-gaining machine, I feel the current metagame was too big or too removal heavy to warrant playing him.
I like where Haakon Loam can be given the current metagame. Careful play allows you to (generally speaking) edict the go big decks, darkblast/knight the small decks, and raven's crime/Ghost Quarter the control decks. I think a lot of matchups are closer to 50/50 than favorable or not favorable, and I found myself losing more game 1's than game 2 or 3's, because I could not assess which type of hands were good until I knew what I was playing.
1. Of the previously mentioned matchups, I would rank them loosely as follows:
EldraziTron = very good, although game 1's can be lost due to keeping hands geared towards different decks. After sideboard still stays very good, as their main form of graveyard hate is Relic, which the stony silences you are bringing in anyways stops that. -2 darkblast -1 bojuka bog -1 nameless inversion +1 damnation +2 stony silence +1 tectonic edge is what I have been doing so far.
Tron = pretty good, unless they natural tron you game 1 or you have kept a creature removal type hand g1. After Sideboarding, I'd say it gets even better,as you have access to surgical extraction + ghost quarter, as if ghost quarter wasnt enough. -2 darkblast -1 bojuka bog -2 nameless inversion -1 lingering souls +2 stony silence +2 surgical extraction +1 ghost quarter +1 tectonic edge is what I have been doing so far
Death's Shadow variants = about even, although I have preferred playing against Grixis shadow more than Jund or 4 color Shadow more. the Traverse/Tarmogoyf plan just lets green Death's Shadow decks get a big board presence too fast. this is a matchup where I wish I had the abrupt decays and even fatal pushes over other removal, but between Maelstrom Pulse, Smallpox, Liliana of the Veil, and Lingering Souls, you have plenty of ammunition to fight here. After sideboarding, I still feel this matchup has been even. I have found our deck to be especially weak to Liliana the Last Hope when backed up with good threats. usual graveyard hate here is Nihil Spellbomb, which is good for us because this is a good matchup to bring Leylines in. -1 Haakon -1 nameless inversion -1 tectonic edge -2 darkblast -3 raven's crime +4 leyline of sanctity +2 abrupt decay +1 ghost quarter +1 damnation seems to be consistent, although the exact plan depends on if they are grixis, jund, or 4/5 color.
Affinity = good, this matchup has been talked about a lot already so I wont go into too much detail. another matchup where maelstrom pulse is inferior, but still gets the job done (sometimes better since affinity players almost always overextend game 1 against BGx matchups). -3 raven's crime -2 liliana of the veil -1 knight of the Reliquary -1 bojuka bog +2 Abrupt Decay +2 stony silence +1 Damnation +1 Ghost Quarter +1 darkblast. make sure to save etched champion removal because he WILL kill you.
Abzan CoCo = even/slightly unfavored, one of the most skill intensive matchups I have found (not to say this deck isn't skill intensive to begin with). it is almost never correct to use spot removal on anything besides combo pieces, even though it is tempting to nameless inversion their turn 1 bird when you are on the play. I wouldnt even darkblast it, t2 devoted druid t3 vizier cant be interrupted by 1 casting of darkblast. after sideboard I feel it doesn't change too much matchup wise. -2 maelstrom pulse -2 liliana of the veil -1 raven's crime -1 life from the loam +1 darkblast +1 damnation +2 surgical extraction +2 abrupt decay is what I have been doing, but not ma be optimal. I like having surgicals to disrupt the combo, because if we can do that the matchup becomes favorable.
BGx midrange = even,seige rhinos don't see much play anymore, and maelstrom pulse is the better removal spell here, killing their lingering souls then playing yours feels good. as for Jund, slightly worse due to kolaghan's command and lightning bolt, but definitely still winnable. again, this matchup is tlaked about and wont delve too deep. against jund, -2 darkblast -3 raven's crime -1 haakon, stronghold scourge -1 ghost quarter -1 knight of the reliquary +4 leyline of Sanctity +2 abrupt decay +1 tectonic edge +1 thrun, the last troll. Against Abzan, I dont bring in leylines if I won g1 because some players take out the hand disruption, others keep them in. If i lost, I bring them in because their discard can get rid of key cards we need to win. Otherwise, similar to above.
Burn = very unfavored. our biggest comfort is that it does not dominate tables like it did back in 2014-2015, but an unanswered Eidolon of the Great Revel spells our fate. otherwise, this matchup as we all know just sucks. +4 leyline +1 abrupt decay +1 ghost quarter -1 bojuka bog -2 damnation -3 maelstrom pulse and hope for the best?
Storm = slightly unfavored. smallpox and raven's crim are MVP here, but don't forget you need a clock or no amount of disruption matters here. games feel very unwinnable if you don't have some kind of repeatable discard or getting them off of red, otherwise just jam haakon/souls/knights game 1 as fast as you can. post board you get better here, storm doesn't bring in much for you, but you have the knowledge of what type of hands to keep. -2 darkblast -2 stinkweed imp -1 liliana of the veil -2 lingering souls -1 abrupt decay +4 leyline of sanctity +2 surgical extraction +1 damnation +1 Thrun the last troll. clock + disruption is the plan, as well as Leyline + maelstrom pulse/damnation to keep them off empty the warrens/grapshot.
RG Titanshift = slightly unfavored? I have a hard time judging this matchup even after hours of playtesting this specific matchup. The problem with Titanshift is that they are a combo deck that always topdecks good stuff, so once you see that its titanshift, switch gears to trying to be the beatdown, disrupt aggressively, and land souls tokens or knights asap. you will likely lose the long game game 1, unless you found your land disruption. even then. they topdeck scapeshifts, man. sometimes it happens. note that most scapeshift lists run 3-4 valakuts and 13-14 mountains, can be critical when assessing whether to hold back with ghost quarters or not. after sideboarding, I feel it turns into even/slightly favored, -2 darkblast -2 nameless inversion -2 stinkweed imp -1 abrupt decay -1 bojuka bog +4 leyline of sanctity +2 surgical extraction +1 tectonic edge +1 ghost quarter
UWx control = even, unfavored if they play red. matchups are talked about on front page, but i'll talk about new goodies they have. Spell Queller feels like the dirtiest card anyone could resolve against you. stops so many of our key engine plans with tempo. non red variants will likely counter life from the loam if they know what their doing, as it takes investment on our end to devote to having to "cast" our lands. if they just play UW I feel better about the matchup, but the red or black splashes hurt us. there are so many variations of these decks currently that i don't have a good sideboard strategy yet. just assess what you see game one and think critically of why you lost
Death and Taxes = Favored, many of our cards do work here, and the primer touches on this matchup so I won't go into detail. Sideboard plans are -1 raven's crime -1 knight of the reliquary -1 liliana of the veil -1 life from the loam -1 bojuka bog +1 damnation +1 darkblast +2 abrupt decay +1 ghost quarter
Hopefully i will create a more in depth analysis, but for now I am just answering your questions(maybe I will take over the primer and update relevant information?). I do not play on MTGO, I almost strictly play in paper, alhough I do test on cockatrice fairly often. I may record my playing if this thread becomes semi active again.
2. see opening paragraph, I agree as of now but it does feel good to know you have great odds against some meta decks as a rogue deck.
3. have been testing your suggestion, but KotR getting tec edge is not enough to beat Titanshift game 1. I can not exaggerate when i say raven's crime is the best card in that matchup.I do like how it gives me better game to slower decks like UW control, however, so there's that. I'll report later on how i feel about this iteration.
4. I have personally owned and played ad nauseum many times, and I would dread to wander into this matchup. Ad nauseum needs many resources, and raven's crime, ghost quarter, post board stony silence/abrupt decay, liliana, maelstrom pulse, all do heavy work. we don't have targeted discard, but if they aren't discarding their combo pesices it means raven's crime is either hitting cantrips or mana, both really needed for them to win fast. they bring in leylines against us g2 so keep in all maelstorm pulses, but overall I think it is fine. this is all theory, however, as I have not devoted time to playtesting this yet. As I said, I have played ad nauseum so I am not worried about this matchup. will add more once I do playtest, however.
I am new to mtgsalvation overall, but I would love to rejuvinate this deck into Developing Competetive. I do not know where to go to do that, so if you do, please direct the way to me so I can update this deck for the current meta!
Anywho, Vona is sweet and feels better than batterskull when your oppnent doesnt have graveyard hate, and a great non-graveyard wincon when they do.
I've been playing Raphael Levy's zombie loam deck for a few years now, and had some decent FNM success (when i've been able to play). I am very interested in trying this deck out as it seems to have a very similar play style to zombie loam. Does anyone have a basic decklist that I could play around with?
Also, did anyone see Saffron Olive's new "instant deck tech" video about Haakon storm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fj9kSHTb9o). It looks pretty fun to play. Maybe you guys could "splash" the combo in the regular Haakon loam deck?
Current Decklist- https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/732750#online
Sideboard Guide- https://www.scribd.com/document/384901650/Sideboard-Guide-to-Squeeflagrate
Forum- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/582542-raphael-levys-loam-pox?page=37
My meta is also slacking on grave hate so that's nice too