Dark Deal might be worth looking into. It would have to end up hurting our opponents more than us, which won't always be the case. Plus being on turn 3 to cast means we'll probably already be all in on our board control plan, so using a turn to Deal would hurt us more in that scenario. I'm never one to say no to trying something new though. It could be pretty decent against specific matchups if you resolve it, like UWR control.
I think some people have tried Obedience in this thread, but you'd have to go back and check. Once again, I'd rather spend turn 2 removing threats than playing an enchantment though. It does have merit, especially with Extort. Personally I haven't seen it as something I'd want to try.
1) Affinity is going to come back in a major way, and I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes the top deck with no contention
1b) This is annoying because no/less Delver and no Pod makes Darkblast probably less important, but Affinity almost certainly coming back into the forefront makes it more important -- so it becomes a question of how much. I had upped my maindeck count to 3 with the 4th in the side, and I think I will maintain that under the assumption that there will be tons of affinity, until proven otherwise. Not to mention if people start to play other creature decks (Zoo, Junk) in the absence of Pod, Darkblast may be good still, depending on the creature choices. ...Probably not great against those decks, though.
2) Junk is going to be a big deck. I definitely think the thing holding this deck back was Pod, and now it's going to be the deck to try to compete with Affinity. Before, the BGx decks were all over the place. Jund, Junk, straight BG with Tec Edge, etc. Now, with Rhino, I think we'll see this archetype converge into only Junk.
3) Side note about Rhino, when I was cutting down my sideboard cards, 2 of the 3 last cards to be cut were Siege Rhino. With the metagame obviously shifting, I would not be surprised be able to fit these into my sideboard, now. I saw them being useful against both Burn and Scapeshift, though I wanted to test the sideboarded burn matchup to see how much my sideboarding plan actually mattered to see if it was worth even bothering. I think it might be (especially with burn losing Cruise), but that's a conversation for another post when I go into more detail about sideboard discussion.
I agree about Affinity and Junk probably being the top dogs in the new meta.
The other obvious decks that will be good are resilient combo decks such as Splinter Twin and Scapeshift, and probably UWr Control as well. It helps that all of these decks let ex-Delver players use their fancy UR manabases.
I'm sure GR Tron will be popular to try and prey on the Junk decks (and maybe try out Ugin), but Affinity, Splinter Twin, and Scapeshift have always been pretty mediocre matchups for that deck, and look to be a reasonable portion of the metagame.
I could definitely see some creature strategies such as Zoo and GW Hatebears picking up a little bit, as previously there wasn't much reason to play them over Pod.
There will always be burn.
Something worth noting, all these decks I have listed we have at least a reasonable matchup against, and most (excluding Tron and Burn) I would actually consider favorable. I'm not entirely sure how the Junk matchup will be, and I don't know entirely what the lists will look like. I imagine they will be moving back towards Dark Confidant/Lingering Souls/Liliana of the Veil, and hopefully once the GGT hype dies down, they will be looking to trim Scavenging Oozes to make room for it all.
My play group has actually been testing out Blind Obedience for a short time now, but we've gotten good results from it. Certainly not a game winner, but shutting down Splinter Twin (and Kikipod....RIP) was a big deal.
Blind Obedience shouldn't beat twin. All they need to do is make all the dudes on the endstep after the beginning of the endstep trigger.
Anyways, I think I am moving to this type of strategy from Kikipod(my baby). I originally was playing Assault Loam in modern a couple of years ago and moved to kikipod when I finished it. I guess I like terrible manabase decks.
I was thinking of taking a shell from this deck and moving it to more of a midranging strategy. Maybe only like 2 Haakon, the 4 knights, 3 loams, and 2 nameless inversion. Then playing things like goyf, rhino, scooze, etc. All the Junk idiots more or less
I'm not entirely sure how the Junk matchup will be, and I don't know entirely what the lists will look like. I imagine they will be moving back towards Dark Confidant/Lingering Souls/Liliana of the Veil, and hopefully once the GGT hype dies down, they will be looking to trim Scavenging Oozes to make room for it all.
Last night I was chilling with my playtest group and one of my friends had been playing pod, so obviously he needed a new deck. We decided to build Junk midrange for him to try (and also to have to test against), and we played about 7-10 games. For reference, here's the list we used:
We just built that list as-is to use as a starting point, and will be tweaking it in the near future. The games we played were all mainboarded, but I think sideboard favors us more than them (at least with that list), as they only have some Grafdigger's Cages. Even though they have white, they won't be playing Rest in Peace because they have Goyf, so whether they're running Cage/Relic/Crypt, we know those are all a tier below RIP in terms of effectiveness against us, and are all basically speed bumps that are mostly insignificant. Them spending a card on that early means they have less to actually threaten our life total with, and we can just casually draw into a Decay once we've stabilized.
As for how the games went, I think I won about 75% of them, and most of the games weren't even close. The games he won were pretty much all close and could have potentially been turned around. Things of note off the top of my head:
1) Obviously, they're playing maindeck Ooze, and while it can be very good against us, I honestly felt like that it wasn't THAT bad, because I think most of the rest of that deck matches up so poorly against us. There were a couple of games where he had an Ooze in play that I couldn't remove, and I just dredged faster than he could remove stuff and overpowered him with Knights.
2) Siege Rhino was involved in every game I lost. The combination of the initial -3 life, and then generally trampling over a Stinkweed Imp for another few points, or just having no answer at all was a problem. I think we all expect that. The only way to really compete with this, was again, to overpower it with Knight.
3) Related to the Siege Rhino issue, and something to keep in mind, in general, when given the opportunity, I think you basically always want to trade your souls for theirs. Yes keeping souls to potentially chump Goyf/big Oozes is relevant, but I think it's more relevant to keep the board clear so our many edict effects are 100% live. This is our ideal way of dealing with a Rhino.
4) This has been relevant against other decks, obviously, but I don't think it's ever been expressly noted in this thread: sometimes you want to let them do their thing with Liliana for a while. Liliana is laughably bad against us so don't feel obligated to use a card to kill her unless you really feel you need to. For example, if I have only one Abrupt Decay in hand (and other cards to prevent me from discarding the Decay), and they play a Liliana, I'm not going to Decay it. I'm going to save the Decay for something that matters (which isn't much in this matchup) like Ooze or Bob. Liliana +1 helps us more than them, -2 will basically do nothing unless they play it after you play a KotR from hand, and even the ultimate isn't scary if you've already found a loam. I've quite frequently stablized everything else (opponent's creatures and hand) while letting them tick up Liliana each turn, and then only after everything else was taken care of, I played a Lingering Souls and started to attack her. Even last night, against my friend, he had a Liliana on 6, but NO other resources, and I only had 5 lands in play. I just Loamed some lands in my hand the turn before so that if he ulted, I'd have a green mana to make sure I could continue to Loam. It completely negates the ultimate.
5) This is a matchup where you need to be very aware of their manlands and your Tec Edges/Ghost Quarters. It is almost the design of GBx decks to grind you down with 1 for 1s, and then when all is said and done, you both have nothing, but they have manlands. This came up multiple games last night, and having the answer to their lands was crucial. Note that if you get a turn to activate with a knight, You'll almost always want to get your own Wildwood (great against their lands if they have no cards in hand), or a Tec edge. You don't want to miss an opportunity to get these, get something use, then have them draw a removal spell for the Knight next turn and kill you with lands.
6) Darkblast is so on the fence for me in this matchup. Best thing it can do is kill a Bob. Second best is kill an Ooze if they play it on turn 2 (which I think if they know the matchup, they should never ever do), third best is clear away their Lingering Souls. ...That's about all it does. I think if you have Maelstrom Pulses to bring in from the side, this is the first thing to go, especially because it's so much better at kill Souls, but remember it will kill your spirits as well! This actually brings me back to point 3, where if it comes to a decision to Maelstrom Pulse both of your spirits or not, I think it's good to do so to make your edicts better. Then again, if you have a Pulse, you can just Pulse their actual threat (Rhino, Ooze, etc), so I think it really depends on the situation: how many edicts do you have in hand, how many cards do they have, what other creatures are in play, etc.
7) On the topic of Malestrom Pulse, I think it's the best sideboard card in this matchup. Kills Rhino, kills Ooze, clears out spirits, and can kill their graveyard hate. It actually makes me wonder if Putrify is worth considering, specifically in the main, over some number of the Abrupt Decays. Months ago, one of the main tipping points for me in the old Decay/Pulse debate was that Decay was the best card against Twin, and Pulse was useless against it. That alone made me go 100% Decay in the main. Twin has been almost non-existant where I play, and depending on how much it comes back post-ban, I could see bringing some Pulse back into the main. However, I never considered Putrify, which is an entirely different option. Also good against Twin, but obviously doesn't hit some permanents we care about...though in game 1, I have to ask myself which permanents those would be... Most of the non-creature permanents in the main we actually care about happen to be Artifacts, anwyay, like Relic out of the Tron decks, for example. What can be Decayed but not Putrified in game 1 that we can about? Is it nothing?
Edit 8) One other thing I forgot to mention, which hasn't been reflected in the sideboarding notes at the bottom: My friend specifically noted how good Raven's Crime was in the matchup. Since the deck has so much removal, and basically just curves out, Raven's Crime was very useful for getting rid of the last 2-3 cards (mostly removal, sometimes a Rhino, or something), before starting to take over the game. In my original sideboarding thoughts, it was all theory, and I thought maybe I'd want to side out Crimes. Not anymore.
Part II: Current Decklist and Card Discussion
Ok, so, that's enough random thoughts about Junk. Let's keep this post going with what I promised a few nights ago, and let me talk a bit about my current list, and sideboard.
Ok, so, let's start with some stuff in the maindeck. Most notable:
1) I'm back to 2 Darkblasts (down from 3, before the bannings), and I'm down to 2 Nameless Inversion. For a while, I had the third Nameless in my sideboard, and I'd like the third back either in the main or side, but I've been doing ok with just the 2. I think the number of decks where we need this to win are small, and I haven't really felt the difference from 3 to 2.
2) Smallpox up to 4. This has been my favorite change. This will become more clear, I think after looking at how I determined the sideboard, but after doing so much work on the sideboard, I realized I wanted the 4th in the side. Then, as I was putting the sideboard together, I realized I would be siding it in in about 80%+ of the matchups, and almost never siding any out...this to me screamed that the 4th should be in the main. I've been playing with it for a bit now, and I can definitely feel it, and definitely approve. There have been many games where I Smallpox turns 2 and 3 back to back and the game is just over. So many decks fold to this card, it's ridiculous. When testing against Junk last night, Smallpox was taken to Inquisition/Thoughtseize 100% of the time, given the opportunity, even over Damnation.
3) Lingering Souls down to 3. I know I said "I would never play this deck without the 4th Souls", but I've secretly been doing it for a few weeks now. It started out because I wanted to try some other stuff, and it's the easiest thing to cut, and it just kinda never made it back in. Similar to Nameless, while it would be nice to have one more, I haven't really felt the 1 missing too much. There have definitely been games where I've been like "man, I could really use a Souls to buy some time", but those games are very few and far between. If I can find a way to put it back, I will, but for now, I'm ok with leaving it at 3.
4) Noxious Revival. I actually have nothing to say about this card for the time being. I just put it in last night to try it out after talking to my friend about it. The theory seems good, but I haven't actually played it yet, so I don't know. I think it's been suggested before and shot down, but after thinking about it more, my theory is that this could be like our version of Snapcaster Mage. There are SO many games I play, where I'm forced to stop dredging and I'm drawing to a single out (almost always Damnation or Decay). Being able to EoT put it on top and then draw it just seems too useful to pass up. There are also times when I'd love to hit a land drop, but don't want to spend 2 mana to dredge Loam and cast it. This can work in those situations also. This even has some small potential for graveyard "hate", like against unburial rites.
Typically, the main drawback to a card like this is that it's card disadvanatge. The card goes on your library, not into your hand, so you're spending a card for "nothing". But I think in our deck, this is a non-factor. We're not worried about card advantage...dredging gives us way more card advantage than any other deck. So in theory, this card seems like the real deal. I'm excited to actually cast it and see what it does for me, of anything. I'm also excited to be how bad it can be at it's worst, because I'm thinking even at it's worst, it will be reasonable. My biggest fear with this card is how it might make otherwise great opening hands clunkier, and too hard to keep. Like before, if your opening hand was Loam, Land, Land, Land, Haakon, Souls, and then X, X could be almost anything, and that hand was fine. Any removal spell, Liliana, Damnation, Raven's Crime, etc. If that card is Noxious Revival, that hand becomes a little tough to keep due to no real interaction.
Basically, Noxious Revival is almost in the vein of GGT, where it helps our engine, but is awful in our opening hand, because it's "uncastable", and adds to the uncastable cards we can draw, where we need our early draws and plays to be interactive. That is a scary thought because obviously Noxious basically needs to be in our opening hand or it doesn't do anything, because ideally, we'll be dredging after a few turns. However, I think this is still ok, because in your opening hand, if you have any spell, or even Liliana, it won't be "dead".
It's really hard to theorize, so we'll see how it is in actual matches.
Part III: The Sideboard and How it Got There
Ok, so, about that sideboard, I mentioned a few posts ago that I spent a bit of time and did an exercise to try to refine my sideboard. Below are some of the notes from that, but let me explain, first. The goal of this is to take each matchup, and (ignoring your sideboard) just make the deck the best 60 cards you can against that deck. So for example, for Affinity, I would ideally replace the 10 cards on the right with the 10 on the left. Consider that the goal is to have no bad cards for the matchup anymore, and for cards to bring in, you want to keep it within reason. Like Mutavault for example is a card that would be good to have in against Affinity (a potentially infinite blocked for Etched Champion that be tutored by Knight), and it is reasonable that we would be able to fit a Mutavault in our main or side, somewhere, if it made sense given the other matchups. In other words, Mutavault is reasonable, but saying you're going to side in a pile of Katakis and Creeping Corrosions on top of your Stony Silences isn't.
Also, don't take too much stock in the numbers, some might be off by 1 due to maindeck changes (like Darkblast). Doing this made me realize that keeping track of the numbers wasn't actually necessary. The point is to see what cards are weak and strong in the matchups. Also note that in each grouping, I've ordered the cards by what I feel is the most important cards to come in and out, in order from top to bottom. In other words, against Affinity, the #1 card I want to bring in is Smallpox, and the #1 I want to take out is Liliana. I think keeping your lists ordered this way is what makes keeping track of the numbers irrelevant, because if I take sometime out, and suddenly have 1 more slot to side in or out, or all of the cards in the "In" list don't make it into the end sideboard (spoiler alert: obviously, they all don't), it doesn't matter, because you just replace the top X cards from your "Out" list with however many you have to bring in from your "In" list.
Pod is included because I did this Saturday, right before the bannings (lol). Delver, also was done before that, so keep that in mind. Also, I stopped before doing Ascension, because I haven't played against that deck in so long, but I'll probably do it, soon.
So let's look at some examples of what this kind of information this data can show us. If you've been reading since the beginning (congrats on that btw), I mentioned adding the 4th Smallpox. Look at Smallpox in each matchup. Ideally, I was bringing in the 4th in almost every matchup, and only siding out a single one against Delver (which should be a less prominent deck, now). This told me the 4th should just be in the maindeck.
Now, how did I slim this down into an actual sideboard? Well, it was kind of like sculpting. I started by taking every single card included in every "In" list, and put it into one big list. Not cumulatively, I just merged them. This gave me about 30-ish cards. From there, I just went down the list of them, and re-reviewed how much weight they held, based on 1) How many matchups am I bringing them in, 2) How important are those matchups (am I already strong against those decks, etc) 3) What "rank" are they in my list of what I'm bringing in 4) How many other cards we have to bring in (want to make sure I'm at least getting all the really bad cards in the matchup out).
And basically I just whittled it down using that thought process. The first 10-ish cuts were simple. The last 5 or so were really difficult, and were the cards where I could 100% see swapping out some cards once we see how the metagame develops. Siege Rhino in particular were some of the last 3 cuts, and I think they have a place in our sideboard, but again, based on my plan, I was only bringing them in against 2 decks, and one of those decks I don't think it would help enough (Burn), and one of them we're already fairly strong against anyway (Scapeshift).
I could talk about specific card choice for my sideboard now, but honestly, I think showing you those notes and giving that process should explain the selection for every card in my sideboard, since you can see exactly where I play on bringing it in. One thing to note is that there are some cards in the side that I gave bonus points just due to their versatility. Torpor Orb, specifically. You can see I'm not bringing it in against many decks (especially with Pod gone), but I feel like this is a card that's good to have in your side because you find it good in random matchups. Similar thought with Courser. Courser comes in for specific matchups, but can also just be a good card to bring in that will be better than something you want to take out because it's weak in the matchup.
Anyway, this was a hell of a post, so I'll end it here. But looking forward to playing more!
Incredible post Knobobo. I'm a big fan of your meticulous sideboard construction procedure.
I also like the trial of Noxious Revival. I have considered it before but came to the conclusion that it is nearly useless if you don't get it very early on before the constant dredging begins (since topdecking it right when you need it is only slightly less magical Christmas time than topdecking your answer and if you dredge your only copy, you're SOL). Let us know how it goes!
But I know EXACTLY what you're talking about when you say you're forced to stop dredging and have to spend the next couple turns trying to draw your out. It has made me wish for an Eternal Witness with the Knight creature type for 1BG. I can dream can't I?
Well I spent all day scrambling to pick up the last pieces I was missing to finally be fully un-proxied for a GPT this weekend. And I'm one Haakon short. Unless somebody near Fresno/Lemoore, Ca area has one they just reeeeeeeally wanna loan me? Lol. I might see if I can make this at least 'not' terrible with 2 Haakon's. Either way I'm still playing this weekend to celebrate the absence of Pod and Treasure Cruise, I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Well I spent all day scrambling to pick up the last pieces I was missing to finally be fully un-proxied for a GPT this weekend. And I'm one Haakon short. Unless somebody near Fresno/Lemoore, Ca area has one they just reeeeeeeally wanna loan me? Lol. I might see if I can make this at least 'not' terrible with 2 Haakon's. Either way I'm still playing this weekend to celebrate the absence of Pod and Treasure Cruise, I'll let you guys know how it goes.
That's awesome I'm excited to hear how it goes! Sadly I live on the other side of the country so I can't give you one of the 20+ Haakons I've been collecting... I'm sure 2 Haakons will probably work fine. Can you post the list you will be playing?
This leave my with one spot to fill. I may even go as far as doing something as silly as putting Siege Rhino in that slot. There is one more store I just found out about nearby that supposedly has a huge collection of singles, so tonight I'll check there. I haven't played at this shop for Modern before, so going in blind I expect to see Dredgevine, Tron, Twin, and Storm. I'm sure there'll be some number of Junk Midrange as well. I'm hedging a little heavier towards Twin, Tron, and Dredge decks I think.
If you see anything glaring (besides fetchland distribution. Catacombs seem to be harder and harder to come by locally) let me know.
Maybe the 4th Raven's Crime is too much, as I usually end up playing them from the graveyard. The 4th Lingering Souls, Smallpox or Knight of the Reliquary might be better. I usually play the Lingerings, but Knobobo explains that Smallpox might be better. I like the forth knight if you want to be agressive in some games, as playing it as a 4/4+ on turn 3 is pretty harsh for some decks.
Yeah, I agree with that. I like 3 Crimes, which if I understand correctly, gives you two slots, because you're trying to figure out what to play if you don't have a third Haakon? Like kipe85 said, I'd pick two between Smallpox, Knight, and Souls, and I think that order is my order of preference. If you expect a lot of combo, Souls are pretty worthless, where as Knight helps a lot against stuff like Dredge/Pyro Ascension, because you can threaten to Bojuka Bog at instant speed, and it's also a clock, which you need to have. Souls can be considered a clock, but it's typically too slow, unless you completely grind down their resources and have time to actually cast and then kill with them.
My thinking with the Crime was rationalizing how much I like having one opening hand. So shoving my bias aside I'll cut one of them out, and go with the 4th Smallpox and 4th Knight, dropping the Knight if I pick up a Haakon.
My thinking with the Crime was rationalizing how much I like having one opening hand. So shoving my bias aside I'll cut one of them out, and go with the 4th Smallpox and 4th Knight, dropping the Knight if I pick up a Haakon.
I don't think it's unreasonable to want the 4th Crime. If you look at my sideboarding notes, I had wanted to bring the 4th in in all of the combo matchups, and I was really only taking it out against Affinity (again, as I said in my big post's edit, ignore Junk as I found Crime to be good against them). I think the thing with Crime is that it's only really good with Loam. Yes, sometimes you'll have an extra land and be able to just strip away the last 2 cards in their hand, or something like that, but more often than not, you're waiting until you find a Loam to really go to town on their hand. That to me is what makes it a 3-of. I don't really need it in my opening hand, but ideally, I'd like to find one after dredging for a few turns.
Ok, I keep saying I'm going to post a bunch of stuff and get sidetracked, and now I feel like I owe you guys. I'm here to deliver. Brace yourselves.
...
I'll end it here. But looking forward to playing more!
And deliver you did!
That's some pretty awesome work, and I have tons of comments/questions about some of your findings and choices. Sorry it took me a little bit to actually get the time to put some of my thoughts in a post.
Junk Matchup
That's awesome to hear how much success you had against the deck, and the list you were testing against seems like a pretty stock list that I would expect. The threat count might be a little higher than I would have thought, but other than that the list seems about right.
I have always liked Raven's Crime against this deck, as it really is one of the biggest enablers of us completely outgrinding them. We do a good job of mostly blanking their removal early, but we give it lots of targets when we turn the corner and go on the offensive. Emptying their hand between those two stages ensures that their removal is as ineffective as possible throughout the entire game, and it lets us close out games much faster and more safely.
I agree that Scavenging Ooze isn't that scary in this matchup, it was mostly scary coming from Pod as they could tutor it up at the correct time and recur it, while BGx is forced into just kind of playing it as a dude, often when we have a good way to deal with it. Also the fact that they don't have mana dorks and Kitchen Finks to protect it from edict effects means it is much easier for us to get rid of it.
I definitely agree about trading spirit tokens. Keeping the board clear is a big deal for our edicts which are generally very good against BGx.
Most local BGx players who are used to playing against this deck generally just use Liliana as an expensive edict, and just play her, -2, then leave her. It is pretty awesome how bad she is against us, especially when opponents do use her +1 and we get to discard something like Haakon or Stinkweed Imp.
Other Thoughts
I think cutting down to 2 Nameless Inversion is probably fine. The most common matchup where I wanted to race to find Haakon/Inversion was easily Pod, and now that it's gone, there aren't THAT many matchups where I can have trouble winning without assembling it. The combo is still very good, but there are less situations where it is a necessity. The fact that it grows opposing Tarmogoyfs too can also sometimes be a liability.
I've found that Smallpox is consistently my best card against BGx. I think the main thing holding me back from wanting to play 4 was the fact that it was pretty miserable against Pod. The only time it was really worth casting was turn 2 on the play (where it was very good), but at any other time it was nearly always uncastable. Now that Pod is gone, I think its stock has gone up quite a bit.
Sideboarding
The first thing I noticed that I'm not sure I agree with is how highly you value Smallpox against Affinity. While I think it's fine on the play, at least on the draw I've found that it's actually usually just terrible. The fact that they have manlands to protect their high-value threats means that it rarely hits what you want past turn 2-3 (unless you have had access to a Darkblast all game), and it just sets you a turn back from actually stabilizing with a Damnation. I usually find myself keeping 2-3 on the play, and 0-1 on the draw.
You mentioned that you decided not to cut the Raven's Crimes against Junk, how does your sideboard plan change now? All of our cards in the maindeck are generally already pretty awesome against this deck (minus maybe Darkblast), and so I find myself changing my plan pretty frequently. I'm curious to know what your thoughts are about it now.
I've found that I like going to 26-27 lands postboard against GR Tron. I'm not a huge fan of Haakon in this matchup, as once you can get them under Ghost Quarter/Loam lock it really doesn't matter what you win with. A couple spirit tokens do just fine. The fact that so many of your lands are being played mostly to be sacrificed means that I would rather err on the side of running too many, and any extras end up being Raven's Crime fodder anyway.
Post-ban, I'm not sure I agree with your Scapeshift plan anymore. With Junk expected to be top dog, I imagine Scapeshift will go back to running quite a few copies of Obstinate Baloth. I think this card is such a huge component of postboard games that I like trying to leave in as many copies of things that can deal with it as I reasonably can. Loam+Tec Edge usually does a good enough job at shutting down their combo, that I think it makes sense to focus on the only ways you reliably CAN lose. Also things like Inferno Titan and Batterskull will probably be more popular as well. This is why I generally like things like Maelstrom Pulse, Stinkweed Imp, and Damnation in this matchup.
How often do you find the extra life from Courser or Rhino actually forces your Scapeshift opponent to go off on 8 lands?
This leave my with one spot to fill. I may even go as far as doing something as silly as putting Siege Rhino in that slot. There is one more store I just found out about nearby that supposedly has a huge collection of singles, so tonight I'll check there. I haven't played at this shop for Modern before, so going in blind I expect to see Dredgevine, Tron, Twin, and Storm. I'm sure there'll be some number of Junk Midrange as well. I'm hedging a little heavier towards Twin, Tron, and Dredge decks I think.
If you see anything glaring (besides fetchland distribution. Catacombs seem to be harder and harder to come by locally) let me know.
Seems pretty good, other people have already weighed in about the 4th Raven's Crime, and my thoughts are that it's probably fine either way. If you expect a lot of combo and/or control, then I wouldn't fault you for running a 4th.
I'm curious to hear how it goes with the extra colorless source. It's obviously better in the Tron matchup (which makes sense if you expect to see a lot of it), but I wonder how much it will impact you casting your spells on time.
The rest all looks pretty stock, I think cutting the 4th Abrupt Decay from the sideboard is probably okay seeing as how it got worse against BGx as it doesn't deal with the Rhino.
It's been brought up multiple times already since its unbanning, I suggest you read the last page or two where several people have described why it is not great choice for this deck.
This is how I ran the list today. What a day it ended up being, in a not so good way but I still enjoyed myself and enjoyed playing this again.
1) Good news and bad news. The good news is that I feel this deck is still a really good choice to play, and I think is still definitely competitive. The bad news is that it's been five months since the last time I played it, and I didn't get any better with it by not playing it.
2) bGnomes was right about the extra colorless being a little sketchy. It wasn't oppressive to me, but there were definitely times that it was made awkward. I managed to get out of screwing myself on mana by Quartering myself to fix. That's not exactly where I want to be though. -1 mainboard Ghost Quarter for sure.
3) The third Inversion worked really well for me, but I can definitely get behind cutting to two after I pick up an extra Haakon.
4) I did spend a moment considering Muten Yoshi's idea of Tasigur. However I couldn't think of enough cards that we would actually want to Delve away. Decay, Smallpox, Liliana and Damnation would be the only targets I'd be okay with getting rid of, and at that point Tasigur no longer becomes the early game value card he's designed to be.
In the tournament I end up going 1-2, and in the last round conceded to my opponent after third and fourth place drew to lock up top 8. It was a weird tournament, with a lot of the local Modern players out of town for a PPTQ instead of the GPT (it was for Kyoto, so it makes sense). We almost didn't get the 8 needed for it, but last minute two showed up so we had 9 players. I was really shocked by the small tournament as the shop seems to have a pretty robust Modern scene.
Round 1: Steven playing Merfolk
G1 he got an early head start, but Smallpox, an Abrupt Decay, and 2 Nameless Inversions let me stabilize at 14 life. I Loam'd and got Haakon and Knight in the graveyard on the same turn, playing Haakon and keeping the board clear with Inversion. He scooped rather than let it drag out which I thought was pretty nice of him. I did a terrible job at sideboard notes all day, so this is off memory. G2 I brought in Maelstrom Pulse and took out Raven's Crime, also bringing Stony Silence. This game was pretty brutal, as he got 2 Aether Vials online and just dumped too many creatures for me to handle, and I didn't draw into a Damnation in time. G3 I sided out the Maelstrom Pulses feeling like they were too slow, can't remember why I thought this was a good idea, or what I brought in. This was definitely our grindiest game, and was really tense thoughout. I ended up having a pretty stacked graveyard after he used his Relic early in the game, and cleared the board with both Damnation's. In the last turn, at 3 life I was trying to figure out how to not lose to his Reejery and Cursecatcher. I punted by main phasing a Darkblast to target his Cursecatcher. I didn't have a second one, and forgot that Reejery is a lord effect. I intended to Blast and Smallpox, taking me to 2 and leaving both creatures dead. In the end, I think the only out I would've had would be if he sacced Cursecatcher and kept me at 3 life.
Round 2: Thomas playing Affinity
This was a really easy win for me. Game 1 he mulled to five with me on the play. A few Nameless Inversions, 2 Lingering Souls, and a Knight of the Reliquary were all it took for him to scoop. He didn't see Stinkweed Imp, Loam, or Haakon so he thought I was just running Knight and tokens. Game 2 I kept a 2 land hand, and took what might've been my riskiest line of play for the day. Turn 1 I Darkblasted his Signal Pest. Turn 2 I cast Smallpox, he sacced his Inkmoth Nexus and a Vault Skirge, keeping a Steel Overseer. He then played cast Ensoul Artifact on his Darksteel Citadel. I topdecked a Marsh Flats and Smallpoxed again, and he scooped. I think the rage quit might be my best win condition with this deck.
Round 3: Chris playing Living End
This was just terrible for me. I lost game 1 pretty handily in spite of a turn 3 Bojuka Bog (he'd already had his graveyard pretty loaded up). I didn't see a Knight of the Reliquary or a Life from the Loam soon enough and he filled his graveyard back up and cascaded for the win. Game 2 I think I went too aggressive with my Smallpox and ended up mana screwing myself.
Round 4: UWR Flash
After I conceeded we played this one for fun. Both games were pretty grindy, with my using Haakon and Dredge to burn him out of counterspells. He ended up with the win due to outresourcing me by a hair. Game 2 I cut Smallpox for Raven's Crime, Darkblast, and Maelstrom Pulse. This game I think I kept a hand that was just too slow, and he was able to get a pair of Resto's on the field before I was able to eventually resolve anything. He ended up winning with the Angels and Lightning Bolts.
Conclusion: This deck is better than I currently am with it. I think my biggest issue is being too eager to Smallpox so that's something I need to put more focus into. Also I need to write down sideboard guides, because without them I have commitment issues with taking cards out. I'm the exact opposite of the guy/gal who over-sideboards. I'm a little bummed that I didn't get into the top 4 since everybody knew I was moving to Japan in time for GP Kyoto and I would've gotten the byes, but I didn't honestly expect to do good enough to get there with my current level of experience with the deck. I'll start grinding the weekly events here to get more practice with the deck, and get better at writing more concise reports.
Is Leyline of Sanctity a necessary evil? I guess its only for the burn matchup. Isnt it win-able otherwise besides getting lucky with creatures and archangels vault and nuking his only land with pox?
It is 100% for the burn matchup, but it is also randomly good against a few less common decks as well.
8 Rack basically folds to it. This is already a very good matchup, but it is possible to lose in games 2 and 3 when they have access to Surgical Extraction.
It is very good against any deck relying on Gifts Ungiven. This is pretty significant because an Iona naming black is generally lights out for us.
It shuts off the Scapeshift combo. This is somewhat relevant, as games 2 and 3 against Scapeshift rarely are about the combo anyway, and are more about trying not to get blown out by Obstinate Baloth or graveyard hate. Plus, the fact that they can simply bounce it with Cryptic Command EOT and win anyway means I rarely bring in more than ~2 copies.
Against Jund (with red), I used to like bringing in a few copies. It shutting off their Thoughtseizes and Liliana of the Veil is somewhat relevant, and not really worth the card slot. However, it also prevents them from sending Lightning Bolts at our Lilianas, and most importantly, shuts off Jund Charm/Rakdos Charm, which that particular flavor of BGx sometimes relies on for non-Scooze graveyard hate. This isn't super relevant anymore with Junk being a pretty clear best BGx variant, but it is something to think about.
It's okay against Storm. It shuts off one of their combo angles, but they generally play Echoing Truth anyway, so it's just a matter of digging to that card or just using Empty the Warrens. The one thing it does do, however, is force them to truly go off rather than just cobble together a kill with some Lightning Bolts and Grapeshots for ~5, which is usually their easiest option when being attacked by Raven's Crime.
The burn matchup is very tough without it, and common enough where it's hard to just ignore it.
Played in local weekly tournament tonight. Went 0-2-2 lol. Same list as I ran for the GPT since I haven't had a chance to really make any changes.
Rnd 1: I decided to name this deck Bant-er the Battlefield. Snapcaster, Flickerwisp, Voice, Restoration Angel, Obstinate Baloth, Wall of Omens, and a UW control shell around those. Went to time after a really back and forth game 1 that he won. G2 was much more firmly in my control, Torpor Orbs messed his tempo up a lot and he had to use Krosan Grips on them, but it was still a grindfest.
Rnd 2: Burn. 0-2. Didn't get a Leyline or Courser game 2. I was at 12 with a Knight of the Reliquary in play. Ended up taking damage to cast a second one because at the time my hand was dead against anything he had on the board, and I figured my only out would be to draw a land, activate a Knight to tutor for Vault and attack with the other one for lifelink. Instead he hit me for 9 at my end step and Bolt in his upkeep.
Rnd 3: Mono green aggro. This one was surprisingly hard post board. Dryad Militant caused a lot of problems that resulted in me having to burn spells to get her off the table before being able to cast my Dredgers, so the tempo loss hurt. I ended up being stuck dredging and recasting Stinkweed Imp due to a Grafdigger's Cage shutting off the rest of my graveyard, and dredged my Damnation's. Not sure if I was on the right path since he only had 2 creatures in play, or if dredging for the Imp was the right move. Rancor ended up being what did me in.
Rnd 3: Soul Sisters. Game 1 was over very fast. Game 2 I couldn't get enough removal and he was able to keep recurring his creatures from the yard. Eventually he got double Archangel's in play and attack for 2 points over what I was able to gain with the Vault. Game 2 ended right at the end of the round.
Going forward I'm going to add a 3rd Leyline to the sideboard and probably adding another Damnation as well. Leyline of the Void is going to come out for now, and I might cut the Raven's Crime for another Decay or Maelstrom Pulse.
Played in local weekly tournament tonight. Went 0-2-2 lol. Same list as I ran for the GPT since I haven't had a chance to really make any changes.
Rnd 1: I decided to name this deck Bant-er the Battlefield. Snapcaster, Flickerwisp, Voice, Restoration Angel, Obstinate Baloth, Wall of Omens, and a UW control shell around those. Went to time after a really back and forth game 1 that he won. G2 was much more firmly in my control, Torpor Orbs messed his tempo up a lot and he had to use Krosan Grips on them, but it was still a grindfest.
Rnd 2: Burn. 0-2. Didn't get a Leyline or Courser game 2. I was at 12 with a Knight of the Reliquary in play. Ended up taking damage to cast a second one because at the time my hand was dead against anything he had on the board, and I figured my only out would be to draw a land, activate a Knight to tutor for Vault and attack with the other one for lifelink. Instead he hit me for 9 at my end step and Bolt in his upkeep.
Rnd 3: Mono green aggro. This one was surprisingly hard post board. Dryad Militant caused a lot of problems that resulted in me having to burn spells to get her off the table before being able to cast my Dredgers, so the tempo loss hurt. I ended up being stuck dredging and recasting Stinkweed Imp due to a Grafdigger's Cage shutting off the rest of my graveyard, and dredged my Damnation's. Not sure if I was on the right path since he only had 2 creatures in play, or if dredging for the Imp was the right move. Rancor ended up being what did me in.
Rnd 3: Soul Sisters. Game 1 was over very fast. Game 2 I couldn't get enough removal and he was able to keep recurring his creatures from the yard. Eventually he got double Archangel's in play and attack for 2 points over what I was able to gain with the Vault. Game 2 ended right at the end of the round.
Going forward I'm going to add a 3rd Leyline to the sideboard and probably adding another Damnation as well. Leyline of the Void is going to come out for now, and I might cut the Raven's Crime for another Decay or Maelstrom Pulse.
Sorry to hear about your results so far. You seem to be running into at least your share of bad matchups
I completely overlooked your list not running any Damnation in the board. Having access to more copies of that card is pretty gamebreaking in a LOT of matchups. I think 3-4 in the 75 is definitely correct, as having one in your opener allows you to build a very different gameplan against a lot of common decks, and one that our deck is very well equipped to execute. Four feels like a lot, but in some metas it can be awesome.
I'm interested in other people's thoughts about Leyline of the Void as well. I will probably start with 2, but we'll see where I end up.
Now that MTGO finally has its banlist updated, I will be starting to play Daily Events again, and I will keep you guys posted with how that goes. (I might be a little rusty as well)
I think some of it is matchups, and some of it is rust/lack of familiarity with the deck. Before TC showed up I wasn't nearly experienced enough with the deck as it was, and then not playing it at all during the Cruise days didn't help me get any better. So I'm definitely as much to blame as the matchups. The lack of the extra copies of Damnation is just a lack of me owning any more yet, which I will be rectifying this weekend at GP San Jose. Gonna make a trip out there to get some more progress on foiling Deathblade, play in a Legacy side event and a Modern side event if I have time for that one. I'll post another write up if I do. Worst case scenario: newer players to the deck can learn from some of my mistakes.
Didn't end up making the Modern tournament in time. I did finish getting my playset of foil Deathrites for Legacy, and got a custom mat from Steve Argyle. More relevant to the thread, managed to get another Damnation. To be completely honest, I have a strong temptation to run 3 main, though I imagine that it wouldn't work out the best going that route preboard. I'll post a list and writeup Tuesday night (or Wednesday if I get home from it late).
I had been seeing a lot of Tron and Affinity online, so I upped the Stony Silence count to 3. I liked having access to that many. Now that I'm starting to experience the new Junk matchup, I'm still not sure how I feel about it or how to board for it. Random spirit tokens make our edicts pretty bad, and Siege Rhino obviously puts a lot of pressure on very fast. Maelstrom Pulse and Damnation are definitely our two best cards in the matchup, as they can either take out all of the opposing spirit tokens at once, while also hitting Rhino. I definitely made the mistake of playing a Knight over a Lingering Souls on turn 3 and letting my opponent get value off their Liliana for no reason at least once. What are other people's sideboard plans against this deck?
The Grixis Delver deck with Tasigur seems to be picking up in popularity quite a bit, and it seems to be a pretty reasonable matchup. Haven't played against it enough to have a strong opinion about it though.
EDIT: Managed to catch the 7:00 one too, and went 3-1 again. played against:
In my experience with the deck, colored mana is something that I often get choked on. Throwing more ways to get color screwed for pretty marginal and situational gain doesn't seem worth it to me. The other three cards would heavily require the meta where you are to be shifted pretty far in favor of a deck that gets ruined by them to be worth it, which seems unlikely.
I run a pretty different list than what gets posted around here so take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I do have the Pox, Loam, Haakon, Inversion, Knight core.
Hey guys! I just built this deck about 2 weeks ago and have only managed to play it against RWU Geist, Merfolk, Infect, Storm, and U Tron. I love the deck especially with loam and KotR being two of my all time favs plus I am not a real big follower so building something that 5+ other people in the shop are already playing doesn't really appeal to me. I've had mixed results but I'm sure that some of the games would have ended better with an appropriate sideboard which I'm in the process of building. I have a few questions/concerns that maybe someone could help me out with. Does match time seem to be a factor for anyone else cause a lot of my games have taken a bit too long to close out especially when I seem to be in control. I've considered adding a 4th KotR and a Gavony township to close games out quicker but am worried at what Ide have to cut to make room for them. Any suggestions? Thanks for any responses and thanks for the decklist and all the helpful posts. Great page man!!!!
I think some people have tried Obedience in this thread, but you'd have to go back and check. Once again, I'd rather spend turn 2 removing threats than playing an enchantment though. It does have merit, especially with Extort. Personally I haven't seen it as something I'd want to try.
I agree about Affinity and Junk probably being the top dogs in the new meta.
The other obvious decks that will be good are resilient combo decks such as Splinter Twin and Scapeshift, and probably UWr Control as well. It helps that all of these decks let ex-Delver players use their fancy UR manabases.
I'm sure GR Tron will be popular to try and prey on the Junk decks (and maybe try out Ugin), but Affinity, Splinter Twin, and Scapeshift have always been pretty mediocre matchups for that deck, and look to be a reasonable portion of the metagame.
I could definitely see some creature strategies such as Zoo and GW Hatebears picking up a little bit, as previously there wasn't much reason to play them over Pod.
There will always be burn.
Something worth noting, all these decks I have listed we have at least a reasonable matchup against, and most (excluding Tron and Burn) I would actually consider favorable. I'm not entirely sure how the Junk matchup will be, and I don't know entirely what the lists will look like. I imagine they will be moving back towards Dark Confidant/Lingering Souls/Liliana of the Veil, and hopefully once the GGT hype dies down, they will be looking to trim Scavenging Oozes to make room for it all.
Anyways, I think I am moving to this type of strategy from Kikipod(my baby). I originally was playing Assault Loam in modern a couple of years ago and moved to kikipod when I finished it. I guess I like terrible manabase decks.
I was thinking of taking a shell from this deck and moving it to more of a midranging strategy. Maybe only like 2 Haakon, the 4 knights, 3 loams, and 2 nameless inversion. Then playing things like goyf, rhino, scooze, etc. All the Junk idiots more or less
Rest in peace my one true love: Kikipod
Part I: Battling Junk Midrange Last night I was chilling with my playtest group and one of my friends had been playing pod, so obviously he needed a new deck. We decided to build Junk midrange for him to try (and also to have to test against), and we played about 7-10 games. For reference, here's the list we used:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1224100
We just built that list as-is to use as a starting point, and will be tweaking it in the near future. The games we played were all mainboarded, but I think sideboard favors us more than them (at least with that list), as they only have some Grafdigger's Cages. Even though they have white, they won't be playing Rest in Peace because they have Goyf, so whether they're running Cage/Relic/Crypt, we know those are all a tier below RIP in terms of effectiveness against us, and are all basically speed bumps that are mostly insignificant. Them spending a card on that early means they have less to actually threaten our life total with, and we can just casually draw into a Decay once we've stabilized.
As for how the games went, I think I won about 75% of them, and most of the games weren't even close. The games he won were pretty much all close and could have potentially been turned around. Things of note off the top of my head:
1) Obviously, they're playing maindeck Ooze, and while it can be very good against us, I honestly felt like that it wasn't THAT bad, because I think most of the rest of that deck matches up so poorly against us. There were a couple of games where he had an Ooze in play that I couldn't remove, and I just dredged faster than he could remove stuff and overpowered him with Knights.
2) Siege Rhino was involved in every game I lost. The combination of the initial -3 life, and then generally trampling over a Stinkweed Imp for another few points, or just having no answer at all was a problem. I think we all expect that. The only way to really compete with this, was again, to overpower it with Knight.
3) Related to the Siege Rhino issue, and something to keep in mind, in general, when given the opportunity, I think you basically always want to trade your souls for theirs. Yes keeping souls to potentially chump Goyf/big Oozes is relevant, but I think it's more relevant to keep the board clear so our many edict effects are 100% live. This is our ideal way of dealing with a Rhino.
4) This has been relevant against other decks, obviously, but I don't think it's ever been expressly noted in this thread: sometimes you want to let them do their thing with Liliana for a while. Liliana is laughably bad against us so don't feel obligated to use a card to kill her unless you really feel you need to. For example, if I have only one Abrupt Decay in hand (and other cards to prevent me from discarding the Decay), and they play a Liliana, I'm not going to Decay it. I'm going to save the Decay for something that matters (which isn't much in this matchup) like Ooze or Bob. Liliana +1 helps us more than them, -2 will basically do nothing unless they play it after you play a KotR from hand, and even the ultimate isn't scary if you've already found a loam. I've quite frequently stablized everything else (opponent's creatures and hand) while letting them tick up Liliana each turn, and then only after everything else was taken care of, I played a Lingering Souls and started to attack her. Even last night, against my friend, he had a Liliana on 6, but NO other resources, and I only had 5 lands in play. I just Loamed some lands in my hand the turn before so that if he ulted, I'd have a green mana to make sure I could continue to Loam. It completely negates the ultimate.
5) This is a matchup where you need to be very aware of their manlands and your Tec Edges/Ghost Quarters. It is almost the design of GBx decks to grind you down with 1 for 1s, and then when all is said and done, you both have nothing, but they have manlands. This came up multiple games last night, and having the answer to their lands was crucial. Note that if you get a turn to activate with a knight, You'll almost always want to get your own Wildwood (great against their lands if they have no cards in hand), or a Tec edge. You don't want to miss an opportunity to get these, get something use, then have them draw a removal spell for the Knight next turn and kill you with lands.
6) Darkblast is so on the fence for me in this matchup. Best thing it can do is kill a Bob. Second best is kill an Ooze if they play it on turn 2 (which I think if they know the matchup, they should never ever do), third best is clear away their Lingering Souls. ...That's about all it does. I think if you have Maelstrom Pulses to bring in from the side, this is the first thing to go, especially because it's so much better at kill Souls, but remember it will kill your spirits as well! This actually brings me back to point 3, where if it comes to a decision to Maelstrom Pulse both of your spirits or not, I think it's good to do so to make your edicts better. Then again, if you have a Pulse, you can just Pulse their actual threat (Rhino, Ooze, etc), so I think it really depends on the situation: how many edicts do you have in hand, how many cards do they have, what other creatures are in play, etc.
7) On the topic of Malestrom Pulse, I think it's the best sideboard card in this matchup. Kills Rhino, kills Ooze, clears out spirits, and can kill their graveyard hate. It actually makes me wonder if Putrify is worth considering, specifically in the main, over some number of the Abrupt Decays. Months ago, one of the main tipping points for me in the old Decay/Pulse debate was that Decay was the best card against Twin, and Pulse was useless against it. That alone made me go 100% Decay in the main. Twin has been almost non-existant where I play, and depending on how much it comes back post-ban, I could see bringing some Pulse back into the main. However, I never considered Putrify, which is an entirely different option. Also good against Twin, but obviously doesn't hit some permanents we care about...though in game 1, I have to ask myself which permanents those would be... Most of the non-creature permanents in the main we actually care about happen to be Artifacts, anwyay, like Relic out of the Tron decks, for example. What can be Decayed but not Putrified in game 1 that we can about? Is it nothing?
Edit 8) One other thing I forgot to mention, which hasn't been reflected in the sideboarding notes at the bottom: My friend specifically noted how good Raven's Crime was in the matchup. Since the deck has so much removal, and basically just curves out, Raven's Crime was very useful for getting rid of the last 2-3 cards (mostly removal, sometimes a Rhino, or something), before starting to take over the game. In my original sideboarding thoughts, it was all theory, and I thought maybe I'd want to side out Crimes. Not anymore.
Part II: Current Decklist and Card Discussion
Ok, so, that's enough random thoughts about Junk. Let's keep this post going with what I promised a few nights ago, and let me talk a bit about my current list, and sideboard.
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Stinkweed Imp
Planeswalkers (3):
3 Liliana of the Veil
Instants (8):
2 Darkblast
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Nameless Inversion
1 Noxious Revival
Sorceries (16):
4 Life from the Loam
3 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
3 Lingering Souls
2 Damnation
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
1 Darkblast
2 Damnation
1 Torpor Orb
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Maelstrom Pulse
Ok, so, let's start with some stuff in the maindeck. Most notable:
1) I'm back to 2 Darkblasts (down from 3, before the bannings), and I'm down to 2 Nameless Inversion. For a while, I had the third Nameless in my sideboard, and I'd like the third back either in the main or side, but I've been doing ok with just the 2. I think the number of decks where we need this to win are small, and I haven't really felt the difference from 3 to 2.
2) Smallpox up to 4. This has been my favorite change. This will become more clear, I think after looking at how I determined the sideboard, but after doing so much work on the sideboard, I realized I wanted the 4th in the side. Then, as I was putting the sideboard together, I realized I would be siding it in in about 80%+ of the matchups, and almost never siding any out...this to me screamed that the 4th should be in the main. I've been playing with it for a bit now, and I can definitely feel it, and definitely approve. There have been many games where I Smallpox turns 2 and 3 back to back and the game is just over. So many decks fold to this card, it's ridiculous. When testing against Junk last night, Smallpox was taken to Inquisition/Thoughtseize 100% of the time, given the opportunity, even over Damnation.
3) Lingering Souls down to 3. I know I said "I would never play this deck without the 4th Souls", but I've secretly been doing it for a few weeks now. It started out because I wanted to try some other stuff, and it's the easiest thing to cut, and it just kinda never made it back in. Similar to Nameless, while it would be nice to have one more, I haven't really felt the 1 missing too much. There have definitely been games where I've been like "man, I could really use a Souls to buy some time", but those games are very few and far between. If I can find a way to put it back, I will, but for now, I'm ok with leaving it at 3.
4) Noxious Revival. I actually have nothing to say about this card for the time being. I just put it in last night to try it out after talking to my friend about it. The theory seems good, but I haven't actually played it yet, so I don't know. I think it's been suggested before and shot down, but after thinking about it more, my theory is that this could be like our version of Snapcaster Mage. There are SO many games I play, where I'm forced to stop dredging and I'm drawing to a single out (almost always Damnation or Decay). Being able to EoT put it on top and then draw it just seems too useful to pass up. There are also times when I'd love to hit a land drop, but don't want to spend 2 mana to dredge Loam and cast it. This can work in those situations also. This even has some small potential for graveyard "hate", like against unburial rites.
Typically, the main drawback to a card like this is that it's card disadvanatge. The card goes on your library, not into your hand, so you're spending a card for "nothing". But I think in our deck, this is a non-factor. We're not worried about card advantage...dredging gives us way more card advantage than any other deck. So in theory, this card seems like the real deal. I'm excited to actually cast it and see what it does for me, of anything. I'm also excited to be how bad it can be at it's worst, because I'm thinking even at it's worst, it will be reasonable. My biggest fear with this card is how it might make otherwise great opening hands clunkier, and too hard to keep. Like before, if your opening hand was Loam, Land, Land, Land, Haakon, Souls, and then X, X could be almost anything, and that hand was fine. Any removal spell, Liliana, Damnation, Raven's Crime, etc. If that card is Noxious Revival, that hand becomes a little tough to keep due to no real interaction.
Basically, Noxious Revival is almost in the vein of GGT, where it helps our engine, but is awful in our opening hand, because it's "uncastable", and adds to the uncastable cards we can draw, where we need our early draws and plays to be interactive. That is a scary thought because obviously Noxious basically needs to be in our opening hand or it doesn't do anything, because ideally, we'll be dredging after a few turns. However, I think this is still ok, because in your opening hand, if you have any spell, or even Liliana, it won't be "dead".
It's really hard to theorize, so we'll see how it is in actual matches.
Part III: The Sideboard and How it Got There
Ok, so, about that sideboard, I mentioned a few posts ago that I spent a bit of time and did an exercise to try to refine my sideboard. Below are some of the notes from that, but let me explain, first. The goal of this is to take each matchup, and (ignoring your sideboard) just make the deck the best 60 cards you can against that deck. So for example, for Affinity, I would ideally replace the 10 cards on the right with the 10 on the left. Consider that the goal is to have no bad cards for the matchup anymore, and for cards to bring in, you want to keep it within reason. Like Mutavault for example is a card that would be good to have in against Affinity (a potentially infinite blocked for Etched Champion that be tutored by Knight), and it is reasonable that we would be able to fit a Mutavault in our main or side, somewhere, if it made sense given the other matchups. In other words, Mutavault is reasonable, but saying you're going to side in a pile of Katakis and Creeping Corrosions on top of your Stony Silences isn't.
Also, don't take too much stock in the numbers, some might be off by 1 due to maindeck changes (like Darkblast). Doing this made me realize that keeping track of the numbers wasn't actually necessary. The point is to see what cards are weak and strong in the matchups. Also note that in each grouping, I've ordered the cards by what I feel is the most important cards to come in and out, in order from top to bottom. In other words, against Affinity, the #1 card I want to bring in is Smallpox, and the #1 I want to take out is Liliana. I think keeping your lists ordered this way is what makes keeping track of the numbers irrelevant, because if I take sometime out, and suddenly have 1 more slot to side in or out, or all of the cards in the "In" list don't make it into the end sideboard (spoiler alert: obviously, they all don't), it doesn't matter, because you just replace the top X cards from your "Out" list with however many you have to bring in from your "In" list.
Anyway, on to the notes:
Pod is included because I did this Saturday, right before the bannings (lol). Delver, also was done before that, so keep that in mind. Also, I stopped before doing Ascension, because I haven't played against that deck in so long, but I'll probably do it, soon.
So let's look at some examples of what this kind of information this data can show us. If you've been reading since the beginning (congrats on that btw), I mentioned adding the 4th Smallpox. Look at Smallpox in each matchup. Ideally, I was bringing in the 4th in almost every matchup, and only siding out a single one against Delver (which should be a less prominent deck, now). This told me the 4th should just be in the maindeck.
Now, how did I slim this down into an actual sideboard? Well, it was kind of like sculpting. I started by taking every single card included in every "In" list, and put it into one big list. Not cumulatively, I just merged them. This gave me about 30-ish cards. From there, I just went down the list of them, and re-reviewed how much weight they held, based on 1) How many matchups am I bringing them in, 2) How important are those matchups (am I already strong against those decks, etc) 3) What "rank" are they in my list of what I'm bringing in 4) How many other cards we have to bring in (want to make sure I'm at least getting all the really bad cards in the matchup out).
And basically I just whittled it down using that thought process. The first 10-ish cuts were simple. The last 5 or so were really difficult, and were the cards where I could 100% see swapping out some cards once we see how the metagame develops. Siege Rhino in particular were some of the last 3 cuts, and I think they have a place in our sideboard, but again, based on my plan, I was only bringing them in against 2 decks, and one of those decks I don't think it would help enough (Burn), and one of them we're already fairly strong against anyway (Scapeshift).
I could talk about specific card choice for my sideboard now, but honestly, I think showing you those notes and giving that process should explain the selection for every card in my sideboard, since you can see exactly where I play on bringing it in. One thing to note is that there are some cards in the side that I gave bonus points just due to their versatility. Torpor Orb, specifically. You can see I'm not bringing it in against many decks (especially with Pod gone), but I feel like this is a card that's good to have in your side because you find it good in random matchups. Similar thought with Courser. Courser comes in for specific matchups, but can also just be a good card to bring in that will be better than something you want to take out because it's weak in the matchup.
Anyway, this was a hell of a post, so I'll end it here. But looking forward to playing more!
I also like the trial of Noxious Revival. I have considered it before but came to the conclusion that it is nearly useless if you don't get it very early on before the constant dredging begins (since topdecking it right when you need it is only slightly less magical Christmas time than topdecking your answer and if you dredge your only copy, you're SOL). Let us know how it goes!
But I know EXACTLY what you're talking about when you say you're forced to stop dredging and have to spend the next couple turns trying to draw your out. It has made me wish for an Eternal Witness with the Knight creature type for 1BG. I can dream can't I?
That's awesome I'm excited to hear how it goes! Sadly I live on the other side of the country so I can't give you one of the 20+ Haakons I've been collecting... I'm sure 2 Haakons will probably work fine. Can you post the list you will be playing?
3 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Overgown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Stinkweed Imp
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Haakon, Stromgald Scurge
Spells (27):
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Darkblast
3 Nameless Inversion
4 Life from the Loam
3 Lingering Souls
4 Raven's Crime
3 Smallpox
2 Damnation
2 Stony Silence
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Torpor Orb
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Darkblast
1 Courser of Kruphix
This leave my with one spot to fill. I may even go as far as doing something as silly as putting Siege Rhino in that slot. There is one more store I just found out about nearby that supposedly has a huge collection of singles, so tonight I'll check there. I haven't played at this shop for Modern before, so going in blind I expect to see Dredgevine, Tron, Twin, and Storm. I'm sure there'll be some number of Junk Midrange as well. I'm hedging a little heavier towards Twin, Tron, and Dredge decks I think.
If you see anything glaring (besides fetchland distribution. Catacombs seem to be harder and harder to come by locally) let me know.
Yeah, I agree with that. I like 3 Crimes, which if I understand correctly, gives you two slots, because you're trying to figure out what to play if you don't have a third Haakon? Like kipe85 said, I'd pick two between Smallpox, Knight, and Souls, and I think that order is my order of preference. If you expect a lot of combo, Souls are pretty worthless, where as Knight helps a lot against stuff like Dredge/Pyro Ascension, because you can threaten to Bojuka Bog at instant speed, and it's also a clock, which you need to have. Souls can be considered a clock, but it's typically too slow, unless you completely grind down their resources and have time to actually cast and then kill with them.
I don't think it's unreasonable to want the 4th Crime. If you look at my sideboarding notes, I had wanted to bring the 4th in in all of the combo matchups, and I was really only taking it out against Affinity (again, as I said in my big post's edit, ignore Junk as I found Crime to be good against them). I think the thing with Crime is that it's only really good with Loam. Yes, sometimes you'll have an extra land and be able to just strip away the last 2 cards in their hand, or something like that, but more often than not, you're waiting until you find a Loam to really go to town on their hand. That to me is what makes it a 3-of. I don't really need it in my opening hand, but ideally, I'd like to find one after dredging for a few turns.
And deliver you did!
That's some pretty awesome work, and I have tons of comments/questions about some of your findings and choices. Sorry it took me a little bit to actually get the time to put some of my thoughts in a post.
Junk Matchup
Other Thoughts
I think cutting down to 2 Nameless Inversion is probably fine. The most common matchup where I wanted to race to find Haakon/Inversion was easily Pod, and now that it's gone, there aren't THAT many matchups where I can have trouble winning without assembling it. The combo is still very good, but there are less situations where it is a necessity. The fact that it grows opposing Tarmogoyfs too can also sometimes be a liability.
I've found that Smallpox is consistently my best card against BGx. I think the main thing holding me back from wanting to play 4 was the fact that it was pretty miserable against Pod. The only time it was really worth casting was turn 2 on the play (where it was very good), but at any other time it was nearly always uncastable. Now that Pod is gone, I think its stock has gone up quite a bit.
Sideboarding
The first thing I noticed that I'm not sure I agree with is how highly you value Smallpox against Affinity. While I think it's fine on the play, at least on the draw I've found that it's actually usually just terrible. The fact that they have manlands to protect their high-value threats means that it rarely hits what you want past turn 2-3 (unless you have had access to a Darkblast all game), and it just sets you a turn back from actually stabilizing with a Damnation. I usually find myself keeping 2-3 on the play, and 0-1 on the draw.
You mentioned that you decided not to cut the Raven's Crimes against Junk, how does your sideboard plan change now? All of our cards in the maindeck are generally already pretty awesome against this deck (minus maybe Darkblast), and so I find myself changing my plan pretty frequently. I'm curious to know what your thoughts are about it now.
I've found that I like going to 26-27 lands postboard against GR Tron. I'm not a huge fan of Haakon in this matchup, as once you can get them under Ghost Quarter/Loam lock it really doesn't matter what you win with. A couple spirit tokens do just fine. The fact that so many of your lands are being played mostly to be sacrificed means that I would rather err on the side of running too many, and any extras end up being Raven's Crime fodder anyway.
Post-ban, I'm not sure I agree with your Scapeshift plan anymore. With Junk expected to be top dog, I imagine Scapeshift will go back to running quite a few copies of Obstinate Baloth. I think this card is such a huge component of postboard games that I like trying to leave in as many copies of things that can deal with it as I reasonably can. Loam+Tec Edge usually does a good enough job at shutting down their combo, that I think it makes sense to focus on the only ways you reliably CAN lose. Also things like Inferno Titan and Batterskull will probably be more popular as well. This is why I generally like things like Maelstrom Pulse, Stinkweed Imp, and Damnation in this matchup.
How often do you find the extra life from Courser or Rhino actually forces your Scapeshift opponent to go off on 8 lands?
Seems pretty good, other people have already weighed in about the 4th Raven's Crime, and my thoughts are that it's probably fine either way. If you expect a lot of combo and/or control, then I wouldn't fault you for running a 4th.
I'm curious to hear how it goes with the extra colorless source. It's obviously better in the Tron matchup (which makes sense if you expect to see a lot of it), but I wonder how much it will impact you casting your spells on time.
The rest all looks pretty stock, I think cutting the 4th Abrupt Decay from the sideboard is probably okay seeing as how it got worse against BGx as it doesn't deal with the Rhino.
It's been brought up multiple times already since its unbanning, I suggest you read the last page or two where several people have described why it is not great choice for this deck.
3 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Overgown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Stinkweed Imp
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Haakon, Stromgald Scurge
Spells (27):
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Darkblast
3 Nameless Inversion
4 Life from the Loam
3 Lingering Souls
3 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
2 Damnation
2 Stony Silence
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Torpor Orb
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Darkblast
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Raven's Crime
This is how I ran the list today. What a day it ended up being, in a not so good way but I still enjoyed myself and enjoyed playing this again.
1) Good news and bad news. The good news is that I feel this deck is still a really good choice to play, and I think is still definitely competitive. The bad news is that it's been five months since the last time I played it, and I didn't get any better with it by not playing it.
2) bGnomes was right about the extra colorless being a little sketchy. It wasn't oppressive to me, but there were definitely times that it was made awkward. I managed to get out of screwing myself on mana by Quartering myself to fix. That's not exactly where I want to be though. -1 mainboard Ghost Quarter for sure.
3) The third Inversion worked really well for me, but I can definitely get behind cutting to two after I pick up an extra Haakon.
4) I did spend a moment considering Muten Yoshi's idea of Tasigur. However I couldn't think of enough cards that we would actually want to Delve away. Decay, Smallpox, Liliana and Damnation would be the only targets I'd be okay with getting rid of, and at that point Tasigur no longer becomes the early game value card he's designed to be.
In the tournament I end up going 1-2, and in the last round conceded to my opponent after third and fourth place drew to lock up top 8. It was a weird tournament, with a lot of the local Modern players out of town for a PPTQ instead of the GPT (it was for Kyoto, so it makes sense). We almost didn't get the 8 needed for it, but last minute two showed up so we had 9 players. I was really shocked by the small tournament as the shop seems to have a pretty robust Modern scene.
Round 1: Steven playing Merfolk
G1 he got an early head start, but Smallpox, an Abrupt Decay, and 2 Nameless Inversions let me stabilize at 14 life. I Loam'd and got Haakon and Knight in the graveyard on the same turn, playing Haakon and keeping the board clear with Inversion. He scooped rather than let it drag out which I thought was pretty nice of him. I did a terrible job at sideboard notes all day, so this is off memory. G2 I brought in Maelstrom Pulse and took out Raven's Crime, also bringing Stony Silence. This game was pretty brutal, as he got 2 Aether Vials online and just dumped too many creatures for me to handle, and I didn't draw into a Damnation in time. G3 I sided out the Maelstrom Pulses feeling like they were too slow, can't remember why I thought this was a good idea, or what I brought in. This was definitely our grindiest game, and was really tense thoughout. I ended up having a pretty stacked graveyard after he used his Relic early in the game, and cleared the board with both Damnation's. In the last turn, at 3 life I was trying to figure out how to not lose to his Reejery and Cursecatcher. I punted by main phasing a Darkblast to target his Cursecatcher. I didn't have a second one, and forgot that Reejery is a lord effect. I intended to Blast and Smallpox, taking me to 2 and leaving both creatures dead. In the end, I think the only out I would've had would be if he sacced Cursecatcher and kept me at 3 life.
Round 2: Thomas playing Affinity
This was a really easy win for me. Game 1 he mulled to five with me on the play. A few Nameless Inversions, 2 Lingering Souls, and a Knight of the Reliquary were all it took for him to scoop. He didn't see Stinkweed Imp, Loam, or Haakon so he thought I was just running Knight and tokens. Game 2 I kept a 2 land hand, and took what might've been my riskiest line of play for the day. Turn 1 I Darkblasted his Signal Pest. Turn 2 I cast Smallpox, he sacced his Inkmoth Nexus and a Vault Skirge, keeping a Steel Overseer. He then played cast Ensoul Artifact on his Darksteel Citadel. I topdecked a Marsh Flats and Smallpoxed again, and he scooped. I think the rage quit might be my best win condition with this deck.
Round 3: Chris playing Living End
This was just terrible for me. I lost game 1 pretty handily in spite of a turn 3 Bojuka Bog (he'd already had his graveyard pretty loaded up). I didn't see a Knight of the Reliquary or a Life from the Loam soon enough and he filled his graveyard back up and cascaded for the win. Game 2 I think I went too aggressive with my Smallpox and ended up mana screwing myself.
Round 4: UWR Flash
After I conceeded we played this one for fun. Both games were pretty grindy, with my using Haakon and Dredge to burn him out of counterspells. He ended up with the win due to outresourcing me by a hair. Game 2 I cut Smallpox for Raven's Crime, Darkblast, and Maelstrom Pulse. This game I think I kept a hand that was just too slow, and he was able to get a pair of Resto's on the field before I was able to eventually resolve anything. He ended up winning with the Angels and Lightning Bolts.
Conclusion: This deck is better than I currently am with it. I think my biggest issue is being too eager to Smallpox so that's something I need to put more focus into. Also I need to write down sideboard guides, because without them I have commitment issues with taking cards out. I'm the exact opposite of the guy/gal who over-sideboards. I'm a little bummed that I didn't get into the top 4 since everybody knew I was moving to Japan in time for GP Kyoto and I would've gotten the byes, but I didn't honestly expect to do good enough to get there with my current level of experience with the deck. I'll start grinding the weekly events here to get more practice with the deck, and get better at writing more concise reports.
It is 100% for the burn matchup, but it is also randomly good against a few less common decks as well.
Rnd 1: I decided to name this deck Bant-er the Battlefield. Snapcaster, Flickerwisp, Voice, Restoration Angel, Obstinate Baloth, Wall of Omens, and a UW control shell around those. Went to time after a really back and forth game 1 that he won. G2 was much more firmly in my control, Torpor Orbs messed his tempo up a lot and he had to use Krosan Grips on them, but it was still a grindfest.
Rnd 2: Burn. 0-2. Didn't get a Leyline or Courser game 2. I was at 12 with a Knight of the Reliquary in play. Ended up taking damage to cast a second one because at the time my hand was dead against anything he had on the board, and I figured my only out would be to draw a land, activate a Knight to tutor for Vault and attack with the other one for lifelink. Instead he hit me for 9 at my end step and Bolt in his upkeep.
Rnd 3: Mono green aggro. This one was surprisingly hard post board. Dryad Militant caused a lot of problems that resulted in me having to burn spells to get her off the table before being able to cast my Dredgers, so the tempo loss hurt. I ended up being stuck dredging and recasting Stinkweed Imp due to a Grafdigger's Cage shutting off the rest of my graveyard, and dredged my Damnation's. Not sure if I was on the right path since he only had 2 creatures in play, or if dredging for the Imp was the right move. Rancor ended up being what did me in.
Rnd 3: Soul Sisters. Game 1 was over very fast. Game 2 I couldn't get enough removal and he was able to keep recurring his creatures from the yard. Eventually he got double Archangel's in play and attack for 2 points over what I was able to gain with the Vault. Game 2 ended right at the end of the round.
Going forward I'm going to add a 3rd Leyline to the sideboard and probably adding another Damnation as well. Leyline of the Void is going to come out for now, and I might cut the Raven's Crime for another Decay or Maelstrom Pulse.
Sorry to hear about your results so far. You seem to be running into at least your share of bad matchups
I completely overlooked your list not running any Damnation in the board. Having access to more copies of that card is pretty gamebreaking in a LOT of matchups. I think 3-4 in the 75 is definitely correct, as having one in your opener allows you to build a very different gameplan against a lot of common decks, and one that our deck is very well equipped to execute. Four feels like a lot, but in some metas it can be awesome.
I'm interested in other people's thoughts about Leyline of the Void as well. I will probably start with 2, but we'll see where I end up.
Now that MTGO finally has its banlist updated, I will be starting to play Daily Events again, and I will keep you guys posted with how that goes. (I might be a little rusty as well)
Junk (1-2)
Junk (2-1)
GR Tron (2-1)
Grixis Delver (2-0)
I played the same maindeck that is on the front page, with a few changes to the sideboard. The sideboard I played was:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Darkblast
1 Damnation
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Torpor Orb
I had been seeing a lot of Tron and Affinity online, so I upped the Stony Silence count to 3. I liked having access to that many. Now that I'm starting to experience the new Junk matchup, I'm still not sure how I feel about it or how to board for it. Random spirit tokens make our edicts pretty bad, and Siege Rhino obviously puts a lot of pressure on very fast. Maelstrom Pulse and Damnation are definitely our two best cards in the matchup, as they can either take out all of the opposing spirit tokens at once, while also hitting Rhino. I definitely made the mistake of playing a Knight over a Lingering Souls on turn 3 and letting my opponent get value off their Liliana for no reason at least once. What are other people's sideboard plans against this deck?
The Grixis Delver deck with Tasigur seems to be picking up in popularity quite a bit, and it seems to be a pretty reasonable matchup. Haven't played against it enough to have a strong opinion about it though.
EDIT: Managed to catch the 7:00 one too, and went 3-1 again. played against:
GR Tron (2-1)
Burn (1-2)
Junk (2-1)
UR Twin (2-0)
I run a pretty different list than what gets posted around here so take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I do have the Pox, Loam, Haakon, Inversion, Knight core.