I use geth's verdict for the life drain and the fact that it is sure to grab something on the board, victim and dismember do not.
Unless you are facing a hexproof creature (Bogles or a Geist) than VoN/Dismember will be better 90% of the time because they kill nearly everything that is played (Victim misses mainly Kalitas and G.Angler and Dismember gets everying besides P.Titan and Tron fatties) and you choose what dies when they have more than 1x creature.
I have to agree here. Targeted removal is better in the vast majority of cases.
Thinking of meta-level issues with different removal spells, I see targeted removal even more important. It is predicted that midrange decks running cards like lingering souls will see an increase in meta share due to the printing of fatal push (abzan/junk decks). Lingering Souls is this deck's worst enemy - negating all of our sacrifice effects. Adding more would be a mistake.
Personally I am a fan of diversifying removal as much as possible. Discard, targeted, sac effects. Having 4 fatal push is a good start, but I feel that 4x Geth's Verdict is a bit overkill. If you are running Abyssal Persecutor you have to also balance removal spells which can kill him with those that cannot. Geth's and Push are both serviceable options, dismember is not. Victim of Night is probably the best of both worlds.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
@jwelt. maybe it is a viable option to also play lingering souls. With so many discard effects it is easy and only a minor splash is required.
stony silence/ removals for artifacts; enchantments could be a sideboard route. Only Cause of these and path Junk exists
This is something i have been considering for a time. At a certain point it becomes a different deck. I am planning to test this idea as a B/W smallpox deck
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Geth's Verdict also hits up Emrakul, Griselbrand, Primeval Titan, and other big fatties from Through the Breach and other fatty combo decks. Victim of the Night can handle some of these big creature type combo decks, but not all of them.
I tested some matches vs my grixis control (corey burkhards list)
I had cut bitterblossom for souls, but without it smallpox seems much more worse (or difficult for me to play)
most of the time I think I have to admit that I have to buy the goyfs, haha
I bought the goyfs
Its an empty feeling when you win playing a goyf deck. No real challenge and no pride of ownership knowing you have brewed something yourself.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
@jwelt ..yes, that's the case. The reward is much less to win with a tier1 deck
a lot of times I won via pack rat. But it's so all in that I dont know if it's worth.
With my deadguy deck I ended up place 9/70. One year ago or so. I often wished for a better beater.
Maybe it's the best way to grind harder than Jund/Junk
bitterblossom and pox is a really that way. What about a one of asylum visitor?
What you think about pack rat right now?
I totally agree lol. I made Jund for like... a week. zero fun.
It is funny you mention pack rat - I added one back in my main deck. This is an amazing card. In my experience this deck works best when you have a lot of disruption that has good tempo and you followup with very difficult to deal with threats/engines. This is why I love Bob, BB, Lily, and cards like pack rat. Then eventually you go to land a Percy and close out the game. The deck can be extremely oppressive.
I usually only add pack rat as a 1-2 of in my gate builds. Currently only one copy.
I did a couple of hours of testing yesterday with my smallpox gate list I posted above and I had very good results. I am definitely going to put the Yahenni's expertise in the board though. With the poxes, gatekeepers, lilys, and pushes I hardly needed the sweeper most of the time.
22 or 23 lands? Always a difficult question to answer. I think I need 23. Anyone have an opinion on this land count outside of anecdotal evidence? Like any sort of analysis?
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Went 3-1 yesterday at fnm. The deck ran really well overall. All the new cards were as good as id hoped they would be.
Round 1 junk 0-2 loss
Lingering souls beats this deck...
Round 2 ensoul artifact deck 2-0
This was an easy win. Smallpox wrecks this deck.
Round 3 jund 2-1
Most grindy match ive had in a while. Very thought intensive. End of the day this deck is better at long grinds - made a big misplay but still squeaked it out
Round 4 affinity 2-1
Yahenni's expertise out if the side and bob won me games 2&3. Every game was challenging but i felt i had the upper hand post board by a good margain
MVPs of the night:
Liliana otv
Bitterblossom
Fatal push
Abyssal persecutor
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Went 3-1 yesterday at fnm. The deck ran really well overall. All the new cards were as good as id hoped they would be.
Round 1 junk 0-2 loss
Lingering souls beats this deck...
Round 2 ensoul artifact deck 2-0
This was an easy win. Smallpox wrecks this deck.
Round 3 jund 2-1
Most grindy match ive had in a while. Very thought intensive. End of the day this deck is better at long grinds - made a big misplay but still squeaked it out
Round 4 affinity 2-1
Yahenni's expertise out if the side and bob won me games 2&3. Every game was challenging but i felt i had the upper hand post board by a good margain
MVPs of the night:
Liliana otv
Bitterblossom
Fatal push
Abyssal persecutor
How did Bloodghast work out? I was thinking of all the different two drop choices we have.
Bloodghast was really good in the deck. Great synergy with smallpox and liliana otv.
The only time it was not great was when i drew three in a row when i really needed something else against affinity in the one game i lost. For that reason i switched the 4th copy for my 4th inquisition of kozilek instead.
Vampiric rites was good when i drew it and won me a game against jund in combination with a bloodghast. I liked the card iverall but i still want to try more things in this slot. Currently switched it to try a one of copy of profane command.
Hows your deck doing?
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Bloodghast was really good in the deck. Great synergy with smallpox and liliana otv.
The only time it was not great was when i drew three in a row when i really needed something else against affinity in the one game i lost. For that reason i switched the 4th copy for my 4th inquisition of kozilek instead.
Vampiric rites was good when i drew it and won me a game against jund in combination with a bloodghast. I liked the card iverall but i still want to try more things in this slot. Currently switched it to try a one of copy of profane command.
Hows your deck doing?
I'm very new to modern, but I love all things mono black. I just got my cards this week for my mono black devotion deck. But my goal is to play a more Gate like version. I love Bitterblossom, and Dark Confidant and the whole idea. Just gotta slowly get the cards! So I'm kinda just lurking and reading ideas.
So I have found what I think to be the biggest current weaknesses of the deck: Other decks running efficient token creation cards (aka Lingering Souls) or creatures that invalidate our sacrifice abilities (aka kitchen finks and friends). So I am running along with a couple copies of Illness in the ranks in the sideboard. I think abzan decks with souls are going to be the better of the G/B/x decks in the fatal push meta.
A look through all legal black cards in modern I came across a few things to try:
Imp's Mischief
I think this card can be used creatively to fill gaps of the deck, and to 2-for-1 opponents. For instance, try casting this in response to a thoughtseize, redirect a lightning storm to win the game, redirect that path to exile from your abyssal persecutor. The more I think about this card the more uses for it I can find.
Lost Legacy
Cards like this have shown up a lot over the years in decks running black. The best is probably slaughter games (seen in jund sideboards occasionally). Too often these cards are too slow - cast on T4 - to stop the combo you are trying to survive. This card can be cast on T3, has a slight downside (replaces cards taken from hand), but can be just what the doctor ordered in some matchups. With control and combo decks on the rise I think this card's niche appeal is worthy of a shot in my SB as a 1-of.
Grim Discovery
Basically a 2-mana draw-2 spell in this deck (since I run fetches, ghost quarters, and smallpox), this card provides redundancy for your best creatures and lands (or acts as a pseudo ramp spell). This as a 1-of seems pretty good. Especially in grindy matchups. Can't wait to give it a spin.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Hi everyone. I have recently branched out from aggro to tempo and control. I have developed two lists that I think are strong; however, I do not know which one is going to come out on top since I lack the cards and adequate wifi to test.
This deck is all about control. Every thing about the deck controls the hand or the field. The kill cards are Bitterblossom and Waste Not. Note, Prism Ring is to aid in life loss. The problem I have wit the kill cards is that they are slow. So, if you have a better option that ISNT the rack I'm all ears. As for issues and concerns I think the mana count might be a tad bit lower than optimal.
On the first one: This deck is going to have a hard time winning if you do not drop a T2 bitterblossom and prevent them from blowing it up. In my experience waste not is not a good card in these decks for one really big reason - it does nothing once your opponent is out of cards. Bone Splinters and Prism ring will also likely be dead cards as the game goes on (for a total of 12). For a life gain card to be good in these decks it needs to pull double duty in some sort of way - like a lifelink creature that helps you win (aka vampire nighthawk, gifted aetherborn, or kalitas, traitor of ghet). For this deck I would check the modern 8-rack forum to see what they have going on. You are basically 4x the rack and 4x shrieking affliction away from being that deck. It's a very fun and competitive mono black deck in it's own right.
On the second deck: This is more of a mono black aggro deck than the other one. With only 8 zombies in the deck gravecrawler is likely going to do less grave-crawling than we would all like. Relentless dead and the other "return X to battlefield for mana" creatures are going to be kind of slow - making you choose between playing spells on your turn and bringing back the dead. Only relentless dead can block of all these dudes which worries me - you will likely get overrun by the many efficient aggro decks in the format. Consider mutavault as an additional zombie card that can help you bring guys back.
Collective brutality is sort of weak in the meta right now. I have been in a few situations since I have picked up my black deck again where I had it in hand and it was basically a 2 mana drain 2 effect. I moved it to the sideboard. I see it's value mostly in decks that want things in the yard = free discards with effects. In your aggro deck it fit's a lot more than the one above, but it's still a very mana intensive process to reap any rewards from that synergy.
-----------------
Update on my list:
I took it to fnm last week and went 3-1.
I played a followup game against merfolk and wrecked it two games in a row. I had pretty awkward draws in the official match and in G2 he cast 4 spreading seas effects on my swamps and urborg.
In the match against griselbrand I used a sadistic sacrament (in place of lost legacy - just came in yesterday) and removed all of his shoals. I am not sure this was the right call. Anyone know the best card to call with a resolved lost legacy against grishoalbrand? Game 1 of this match was very easy, and game two was close. Ended up winning because of dark confidant and abyssal persecutor.
Grim Discovery has been great. It was useful every time I drew it. Still unsure of the best card in the flex spots though...
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
@Jwelt : Hey ! Good to see you again on the thread and GGs for your results !
I would like to ask you what do you think about this Yahenni ? I love the creature and it can work as a sweet sacrifice outlet in your shell especialy because of bloodghast but in my list (whish is pretty your original list) I don't know...
And what do you think about hangarback ? I love it and already try it but I don't know if is a real deal.
If abzan and souls are a problem, try to run 1 or 2 liliana the last hope in the SB, this should do the trick, great card btw.
For the moment I want to try x4 gifted aetherborn. Also, I don't know if running fatal push without any fetchland could be a problem or not ? And if 3 is the right number ? Help me guys !
Yahenni, Undying Partisan? I love this card. It does everything we want in the deck. It passes the bolt test because of haste and the ability to get it out of range with a couple kills, and its sac ability. Easy inclusion here. I have tested 1 and 2 copies and I haven't decided yet how many I like. I am leaning towards 1, but it has proven to help win games for me.
Hangarback Walker was pretty good too. I was able to use the abilities quite effectively, but I have limited experience with this card. It is a good 1-of in a flex spot. Might be easier to manage than pack rat.
Liliana, the last hope - waiting for these to go on sale after rotation. I agree it is a good option in the sideboard.
Thanks for posting your results - Gate On!
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I would like to create a deck simular to this and reading about what bad matches the deck has I was curious why no one suggested Contamination. With Bitterblossom Activated it would shut down opponents that are not running Black.
I would like to create a deck simular to this and reading about what bad matches the deck has I was curious why no one suggested Contamination. With Bitterblossom Activated it would shut down opponents that are not running Black.
Are there any good ways of regaining the life lost from Dark Confidant and Bitterblossom? If we don't splash a color we can give some of this away, but hurting yourself really hurts in the aggro and burn matchups.
I think the best reasons to splash red would be Blood Moon and K Command. These are cards that can't be replaced by mono black substitutes. Bolt is also nice but I'm not sure how necessary it is. You have Sign in Blood and a lot of removal any way.
Terminate and Dreadbore are very powerful but Hero's Downfall / Dismember / Cast Down can get the same job done and can keep your mana base more stable for blood moon.
Speaking of mana base, why are you playing urborg and Graven Cairns? Neither seem necessary and you want as many swamps as possible for Blood Moon.
I went to a Modern tournament at my LGS and lost to Bant Knightfall 1-2, won to Burn 2-1, drawn to Esper Gift Control and in final match lost to Jund as I was very tired and made huge misplays.
Old_bag_o_bones you were right about Graven Cairns. I ended up switching it and Urborg for basics. I also added one Collective Brutality and as you may know it was a all-star against burn.
With this list in my LGS I finally managed to beat Elves and UW Spirits but lost to Abzan and Ponza. Ponza is usually favorable matchup from my experience but this time I had to mull to 5 both games and he had nut draws.
What do you think about matchups with midrange decks like Abzan and Jund??
I have put together the following cards from my collection and I am interested in the opinions from others here. I am curious if I should include more fetch lands or eliminate them all together? My local meta is rather fast t3-4 kills are frequent, notable decks are G-Tron, E-Tron, Breach Titan, Dredge, Burn, and Zoo along with some brew decks that fall into midrange, aggro, and control. Overall advice on my deck and sideboard are welcome and appreciated!
I have to agree here. Targeted removal is better in the vast majority of cases.
Thinking of meta-level issues with different removal spells, I see targeted removal even more important. It is predicted that midrange decks running cards like lingering souls will see an increase in meta share due to the printing of fatal push (abzan/junk decks). Lingering Souls is this deck's worst enemy - negating all of our sacrifice effects. Adding more would be a mistake.
Personally I am a fan of diversifying removal as much as possible. Discard, targeted, sac effects. Having 4 fatal push is a good start, but I feel that 4x Geth's Verdict is a bit overkill. If you are running Abyssal Persecutor you have to also balance removal spells which can kill him with those that cannot. Geth's and Push are both serviceable options, dismember is not. Victim of Night is probably the best of both worlds.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
This is something i have been considering for a time. At a certain point it becomes a different deck. I am planning to test this idea as a B/W smallpox deck
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I bought the goyfs
Its an empty feeling when you win playing a goyf deck. No real challenge and no pride of ownership knowing you have brewed something yourself.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I totally agree lol. I made Jund for like... a week. zero fun.
It is funny you mention pack rat - I added one back in my main deck. This is an amazing card. In my experience this deck works best when you have a lot of disruption that has good tempo and you followup with very difficult to deal with threats/engines. This is why I love Bob, BB, Lily, and cards like pack rat. Then eventually you go to land a Percy and close out the game. The deck can be extremely oppressive.
I usually only add pack rat as a 1-2 of in my gate builds. Currently only one copy.
I did a couple of hours of testing yesterday with my smallpox gate list I posted above and I had very good results. I am definitely going to put the Yahenni's expertise in the board though. With the poxes, gatekeepers, lilys, and pushes I hardly needed the sweeper most of the time.
22 or 23 lands? Always a difficult question to answer. I think I need 23. Anyone have an opinion on this land count outside of anecdotal evidence? Like any sort of analysis?
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Round 1 junk 0-2 loss
Lingering souls beats this deck...
Round 2 ensoul artifact deck 2-0
This was an easy win. Smallpox wrecks this deck.
Round 3 jund 2-1
Most grindy match ive had in a while. Very thought intensive. End of the day this deck is better at long grinds - made a big misplay but still squeaked it out
Round 4 affinity 2-1
Yahenni's expertise out if the side and bob won me games 2&3. Every game was challenging but i felt i had the upper hand post board by a good margain
MVPs of the night:
Liliana otv
Bitterblossom
Fatal push
Abyssal persecutor
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
How did Bloodghast work out? I was thinking of all the different two drop choices we have.
The only time it was not great was when i drew three in a row when i really needed something else against affinity in the one game i lost. For that reason i switched the 4th copy for my 4th inquisition of kozilek instead.
Vampiric rites was good when i drew it and won me a game against jund in combination with a bloodghast. I liked the card iverall but i still want to try more things in this slot. Currently switched it to try a one of copy of profane command.
Hows your deck doing?
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I'm very new to modern, but I love all things mono black. I just got my cards this week for my mono black devotion deck. But my goal is to play a more Gate like version. I love Bitterblossom, and Dark Confidant and the whole idea. Just gotta slowly get the cards! So I'm kinda just lurking and reading ideas.
1x Hangarback Walker (flex)
3x Bloodghast
4x Dark Confidant
2x Gatekeeper of Malakir
1x Pack Rat (flex)
2x Bitterblossom
1x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
3x Abyssal Persecutor
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Spells (20):
4x Fatal Push
1x Funeral Charm (flex)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
1x Grim Discovery (flex)
4x Smallpox
4x Liliana of the Veil
3x Ghost Quarter
1x Miren, the Moaning Well
9x Swamp
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4x Polluted Delta
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Illness in the ranks
1x Pithing Needle
1x Collective Brutality
1x Imp's Mischief (experimental)
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Torpor Orb
1x Lost Legacy (experimental)
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Yahenni's Expertise
So I have found what I think to be the biggest current weaknesses of the deck: Other decks running efficient token creation cards (aka Lingering Souls) or creatures that invalidate our sacrifice abilities (aka kitchen finks and friends). So I am running along with a couple copies of Illness in the ranks in the sideboard. I think abzan decks with souls are going to be the better of the G/B/x decks in the fatal push meta.
A look through all legal black cards in modern I came across a few things to try:
Imp's Mischief
I think this card can be used creatively to fill gaps of the deck, and to 2-for-1 opponents. For instance, try casting this in response to a thoughtseize, redirect a lightning storm to win the game, redirect that path to exile from your abyssal persecutor. The more I think about this card the more uses for it I can find.
Lost Legacy
Cards like this have shown up a lot over the years in decks running black. The best is probably slaughter games (seen in jund sideboards occasionally). Too often these cards are too slow - cast on T4 - to stop the combo you are trying to survive. This card can be cast on T3, has a slight downside (replaces cards taken from hand), but can be just what the doctor ordered in some matchups. With control and combo decks on the rise I think this card's niche appeal is worthy of a shot in my SB as a 1-of.
Grim Discovery
Basically a 2-mana draw-2 spell in this deck (since I run fetches, ghost quarters, and smallpox), this card provides redundancy for your best creatures and lands (or acts as a pseudo ramp spell). This as a 1-of seems pretty good. Especially in grindy matchups. Can't wait to give it a spin.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
4 Liliana of the Veil
SUPPORT: 36
4 Bitterblossom
4 Waste Not
4 Smallpox
4 Collective Brutality
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Fatal Push
4 Bone Splinters
4 Prism Ring
20 Swamp
4 Relentless Dead
4 Bloodghast
4 Nether Traitor
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Gravecrawler
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
4 Collective Brutality
4 Fatal Push
4 Bone Splinters
20 Swamp
CONSIDERING: 4
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
Interesting Decks!
On the first one: This deck is going to have a hard time winning if you do not drop a T2 bitterblossom and prevent them from blowing it up. In my experience waste not is not a good card in these decks for one really big reason - it does nothing once your opponent is out of cards. Bone Splinters and Prism ring will also likely be dead cards as the game goes on (for a total of 12). For a life gain card to be good in these decks it needs to pull double duty in some sort of way - like a lifelink creature that helps you win (aka vampire nighthawk, gifted aetherborn, or kalitas, traitor of ghet). For this deck I would check the modern 8-rack forum to see what they have going on. You are basically 4x the rack and 4x shrieking affliction away from being that deck. It's a very fun and competitive mono black deck in it's own right.
On the second deck: This is more of a mono black aggro deck than the other one. With only 8 zombies in the deck gravecrawler is likely going to do less grave-crawling than we would all like. Relentless dead and the other "return X to battlefield for mana" creatures are going to be kind of slow - making you choose between playing spells on your turn and bringing back the dead. Only relentless dead can block of all these dudes which worries me - you will likely get overrun by the many efficient aggro decks in the format. Consider mutavault as an additional zombie card that can help you bring guys back.
Collective brutality is sort of weak in the meta right now. I have been in a few situations since I have picked up my black deck again where I had it in hand and it was basically a 2 mana drain 2 effect. I moved it to the sideboard. I see it's value mostly in decks that want things in the yard = free discards with effects. In your aggro deck it fit's a lot more than the one above, but it's still a very mana intensive process to reap any rewards from that synergy.
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Update on my list:
I took it to fnm last week and went 3-1.
Round 1 mono green aggro. easy 2-0
Round 2 grixis control. easy 2-0
Round 3 Grishoalbrand. easy 2-0
Round 4 Merfolk. Loss 0-2
I played a followup game against merfolk and wrecked it two games in a row. I had pretty awkward draws in the official match and in G2 he cast 4 spreading seas effects on my swamps and urborg.
In the match against griselbrand I used a sadistic sacrament (in place of lost legacy - just came in yesterday) and removed all of his shoals. I am not sure this was the right call. Anyone know the best card to call with a resolved lost legacy against grishoalbrand? Game 1 of this match was very easy, and game two was close. Ended up winning because of dark confidant and abyssal persecutor.
Grim Discovery has been great. It was useful every time I drew it. Still unsure of the best card in the flex spots though...
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Yahenni, Undying Partisan? I love this card. It does everything we want in the deck. It passes the bolt test because of haste and the ability to get it out of range with a couple kills, and its sac ability. Easy inclusion here. I have tested 1 and 2 copies and I haven't decided yet how many I like. I am leaning towards 1, but it has proven to help win games for me.
Hangarback Walker was pretty good too. I was able to use the abilities quite effectively, but I have limited experience with this card. It is a good 1-of in a flex spot. Might be easier to manage than pack rat.
Liliana, the last hope - waiting for these to go on sale after rotation. I agree it is a good option in the sideboard.
Thanks for posting your results - Gate On!
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
4 Geralf’s Messenger
4 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Vampire Cutthroat
2 Collective Brutality
2 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Bitterblossom
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
1 Smoldering Marsh
10 Swamp
1 Abrade
3 Blood Moon
2 Fatal Push
3 Leyline of the Void
4 Thoughtseize
Contamination is not Modern legal.
4 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Dreadbore
4 Sign in Blood
1 Phyrexian Arena
3 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Smoldering Marsh
8 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Graven Cairns
Any ideas from your side very appreciated, I'm not shure if my list belong here
Terminate and Dreadbore are very powerful but Hero's Downfall / Dismember / Cast Down can get the same job done and can keep your mana base more stable for blood moon.
Speaking of mana base, why are you playing urborg and Graven Cairns? Neither seem necessary and you want as many swamps as possible for Blood Moon.
I gave Graven Cairns a spin for sideboard Anger of the Gods as I found Flaying Tendrils and friends not enough many times.
Old_bag_o_bones you were right about Graven Cairns. I ended up switching it and Urborg for basics. I also added one Collective Brutality and as you may know it was a all-star against burn.
4 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Collective Brutality
2 Dreadbore
4 Sign in Blood
2 Phyrexian Arena
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Smoldering Marsh
11 Swamp
With this list in my LGS I finally managed to beat Elves and UW Spirits but lost to Abzan and Ponza. Ponza is usually favorable matchup from my experience but this time I had to mull to 5 both games and he had nut draws.
What do you think about matchups with midrange decks like Abzan and Jund??
I have put together the following cards from my collection and I am interested in the opinions from others here. I am curious if I should include more fetch lands or eliminate them all together? My local meta is rather fast t3-4 kills are frequent, notable decks are G-Tron, E-Tron, Breach Titan, Dredge, Burn, and Zoo along with some brew decks that fall into midrange, aggro, and control. Overall advice on my deck and sideboard are welcome and appreciated!
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Gifted Aetherborn
3 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Ashiok, Dream Render
Spells
4 Fatal Push
3 Bitterblossom
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Smallpox
2 Unearth
10 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Thoughtseize
2 Torpor Orb
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb