O-Ring Target something, if target it wont work, that is what I think.
Text: When Oblivion Ring enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent.
Yes, but (and I'm gonna be bad at explaining this)
1. O-ring enters the battlefield. It becomes a permanent.
2. O-ring's ability triggers, and you target Emrakul.
3. Emrakul only has protection from colored spells.
It's a case of very specific wording. For example, I couldn't doom blade him, but if I had say, a Spikeshot Elder I could target Emrakul with his ability.
If you're staring down a hardcast Emrakul, you have more pressing issues with your deck than the situation you've found yourself in. In no way, shape, or form should you ever allow such a stupid amount of mana to be generated against you under any circumstances outside of moronic hideaway/Geosurge jank.
...not even commenting on the ignorant auto-reply before you, either.
You can't stop them from playing lands. This has happened to me against Tron before. It takes at least six turns to kill someone after Ideal has resolved, if you're playing safe. Post-board, Blood Moon makes that impossible.
@BabyBackRibs
You are saying that as the Spell enters the battlefield it can target Emrakul cause its not a spell anymore, its a permanent. Right?
This makes sense and makes (for me now) O-Ring a good answer to Emrakul, at least on the first game, after SB I'll bring one Nevermore to avoid sac 6 permanents and have the risk to lose the game.
@Barley
Also they can play a lot of ramp spells and already have a Primeval Titan in play and attacked one time or more, so if you dont have Blood Moon MD they will probably have enough mana to cast Emrakul, even if you already played Ideal. This is why I'm using Blood Moon MD right now, a lot of Tron decks around.
You can't stop them from playing lands. This has happened to me against Tron before. It takes at least six turns to kill someone after Ideal has resolved, if you're playing safe. Post-board, Blood Moon makes that impossible.
Why you so angry?
Actually, you can most certainly stop "them" from playing lands. Moreso, however, you can not let your opposition develop so greatly that they resolve a 15 mana win condition that you can otherwise answer with ease. If they sneak it into play with anything but turn 2/3 Goryo, you can stop it.
At the end of the day, if your build isn't going off by turn 5 at the VERY latest, you need to fix your deck.
I'm not angry, either. I just know the deck enough to realize that Tron is probably the (first or second) best match-up you have with Ideal, so if you're losing to a hardcast Emrakul, you're not doing the deck justice.
You know how to stop an opponent from playing lands? You're definitely the best player in the world if that's true. "Uh, no, I'll counter your land drop."
There is no rule you have to cast Ideal by turn five, so don't spew that nonsense. You just need to be faster than your opponent.
I lost once because my opponent got to 13 mana through Tron lands (with the Eldrazi Con) that he was searching up via Maps and Sylvans before Dovescape could come down to stop him. You would have lost in that situation too. It was rare, and may never happen again, even without Blood Moon. Look, you can't speak in absolutes because 1) Magic is too high variance, and 2) it kills development.
I do this deck plenty of justice. I mean you're clearly better than all of us though. You've contributed a lot of knowledge with solid evidence to back it.
You've contributed a lot of knowledge with solid evidence to back it.
Before the deck was in such a bad place in the format, I did. Note the previous two major Ideal threads, in which I contributed often and well enough to know the deck and its evolution.
It's probably the seventh best combo deck in the format, now, and cannot be played to a respectable finish in a serious setting.
Before the deck was in such a bad place in the format, I did. Note the previous two major Ideal threads, in which I contributed often and well enough to know the deck and its evolution.
It's probably the seventh best combo deck in the format, now, and cannot be played to a respectable finish in a serious setting.
Great, more baseless claims. So don't post if you're not interested in developing the deck.
nevermore as a one-of sideboard with 1-2 copy enchantments also in sideboard to back it have proven nice insurance against tron. also, you can drop nevermore b4 casting ideal if u draw it. although blood moon usually does the trick.
most of the time tron is too slow, and when they do manage to get out an emrakuel mid-kill, that's fine, just sac some lands and a spent pentad prism and o-ring it next turn. im assuming most decks only carry one emrakuel thanks to eye of ugin.
and there's nothing wrong with dropping ideal turn 5-7. so long as you make sure your opponent can't kill you/combo out(kill you)/ramp(and then kill you).
and chosen1, you really do come off as offensive. and no you have not contributed anything thus far here. unless you expect us to trawl through the archives and study all your posts.
why not post your list and provide some explanations along with it, some of your match-ups, etc. and we can all forget that we got off on the wrong foot?
Here is my most recent list that I'm playing with a lot of success in Cockatrice and MWS (some times).
This is the best version I played so far and people really becomes unhappy with the lock! Dovescape + Unlife + Form! hehe...some people dont know the deck and this is very fun too.
When I get Dovescape with the first I deal some say that I cant search a second enchant cause Dovescape will counter Ideal! hehe
Right now, only the SB is have some strong "??". The deck is 98% complete.
I've never seen as many people quit after a spell resolves as with Enduring Ideal. Especially, games two and three. They know what's coming and would rather not wait around haha.
@Equinox - I use Firespout in my board (instead of Wrath of God) specifically because of Gaddock Teeg. He shuts down both Ideal and Form, so we're screwed unless we topdeck Oblivion Ring. It also helps with Thalia more often since it's cheaper.
Also, what about dropping those 2 Serum Visions for See Beyond? You have only 1 Dovescape, and if you draw it, you can't get it into play without committing to a win from Birds. I think it's a better fit for the deck than blind draw that's stuck in your grip.
In other news, I've dropped Greater Auramancy from my board. I never have time to get it in the Ideal chain. And I run 2-of my important enchantments for a reason, so I cut it.
That is true, forgot about Gaddock Teeg! But I'm thinking about Volcanic Fallout to avoid counters against UW and Faeries.
Greater Auramancy I think is important to have, there is a lot of creatures that destroy enchant being used right now.
About Serum x See Beyond, I was using See Beyond, but I prefer to have 6 one mana digging over 6 two mana digging, but the 2% of the deck I think that can change is this 2 slots. For now Serum Visions is my preferred, but See Beyond, Gitaxian Probe, Condescend, Court hussar, or some removal are still in test.
I'm keeping in Firespout over Volcanic Fallout. I want the ability to kill Kird Ape still.
I've really never used the Greater Auramancy to any meaningful degree. I've sided it in before, but I've never had to search it up. What creatures blow up enchantments besides Pridemage? I haven't seen any. Without GSZ in the format, I'm not too worried that they'll be sandbagging a Pridemage, and I am using exclusively discard for protection now (4 IoK, 2 Thoughtseize) so I can pluck it out of their hand if they are anyways.
And I am using Sleight of Hand now. Extending your opener two more cards is great for finding Lotus Bloom to suspend the first turn. I'm not sure how your testing is going without the artifact, Nuke, but I'd be interested if your ever short of mana when you need it.
Melira pod can fetch pridemage, harmonic sliver, or acidic slim. As well as some others that are/act like archon.
And I rarely am short mana-wise. Turn 5 ideal is extremely consistent. On rare occasions, I'll have to got to turn 6 or 7. But more often (although still fairly rare) ill get turn 3-4 ideal. Most delays are due to playing it safe, like if I need to spend a turn to drop a clique and tweak their hand or something.
Anyone have any new ideas to share here? I'm sick of getting trounced by aggro without any plan besides drawing the combo game one. Since it's really a question of what supporting cards to use, I'm going to try Firespout in the main for a while. I'll still use IoK, because I think that's the ideal protection spell for us (hits creatures, doesn't cost life). But discard can't stop their topdecks. Thus, Firespout.
4 Leyline of Sanctity - When you're playing against discard decks, you bring in all four. When you're playing against any deck with burn, you bring in one, just in case.
4 Duress - An extension of the four maindeck IoK. Any U(x) control deck will not be able to sit on their counters. I used to play Boseiju, but these are the types of decks that use Tectonic Edge.
3 Pithing Needle - Birthing Pod, Qasali Pridemage, Kiki-Jiki, Proclamation of Rebirth, Expedition Map, Eye of Ugin
1 Firespout - Extension of three maindeck.
1 Blood Moon - Tron.
1 Greater Aurmancy - Safety net for Pridemage/Pod decks.
1 Rule of Law - Storm. In case they can somehow manage to kill you in the one turn before you lock them. This is only a test.
Well, that's it for now. If anybody has been testing lately, I'd like to hear what you're learning.
I'd use slagstorm over firespouts (RR is usually easier than RG, not to mention the god-awful art of firespout). And timely reinforcements over slagstorm, as the life-gain is actually pretty awesome against burn too.
Also magma jet has been working pretty well. Smacks a boat-load of creatures barring like goyf, and pretty much only goyf. Everything else can be taken down with some help from timely tokens. I'd run it over sleight of hand.
Aggro has become my best matchup, but I still carry some slagstorms in the sideboard.
Control is annoying but still fairly handle able due to their low pressure.
We can easily stay on par with other combo speed wise, and since we only need one card our consistency is through the roof.
Tempo is our boogeyman IMO. Especially delver. Remand is just a kick to the balls when all our ramp is one-time-use. And they apply too much pressure for us to reliably bust through their control.
Edit:
Anyone tried devestating tide yet? Looks awesome for this deck as (barring timely tokens who aren't built to last anyway) it is completely one-sided
Devastation Tide seems good cause it can clear the board from other type of threads, other way, if you wana deal only with creatures, Wrath and Day seems better.
Also, would use 4 Serum Visions again to make a good synergy with Miracle....and maybe take a look at Telling Time EOT for Miracle!
I think that there some other Miracle cards that can be useful for us! I'll take a look today.
I've been testing a creatureless (preboard) build with 4 Cruel Ultimatum, 4 Brilliant Ultimatum as digging spells. G1 it's balls to the wall with no disruption, then G2/G3 I can bring in disruption from the board. Right now I also don't run any search except for 4 Halimar Depths. I think I'll also test New Benalia.
It's been working pretty well, but I've had a couple close calls.
Has anyone tried Paradox Haze. Seems a little win more in the main deck, but might be nice out of the board if you need to race. A second upkeep with Form of the Dragon...
It could also replace some dig, since you would be able to draw two one your turn.
Yes, but (and I'm gonna be bad at explaining this)
1. O-ring enters the battlefield. It becomes a permanent.
2. O-ring's ability triggers, and you target Emrakul.
3. Emrakul only has protection from colored spells.
It's a case of very specific wording. For example, I couldn't doom blade him, but if I had say, a Spikeshot Elder I could target Emrakul with his ability.
EDIT: Here's a link to the gatherer rulings. At the bottom it says Journey to Nowhere can target it. Which is the same way O-ring targets.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193452
You can't stop them from playing lands. This has happened to me against Tron before. It takes at least six turns to kill someone after Ideal has resolved, if you're playing safe. Post-board, Blood Moon makes that impossible.
Why you so angry?
You are saying that as the Spell enters the battlefield it can target Emrakul cause its not a spell anymore, its a permanent. Right?
This makes sense and makes (for me now) O-Ring a good answer to Emrakul, at least on the first game, after SB I'll bring one Nevermore to avoid sac 6 permanents and have the risk to lose the game.
@Barley
Also they can play a lot of ramp spells and already have a Primeval Titan in play and attacked one time or more, so if you dont have Blood Moon MD they will probably have enough mana to cast Emrakul, even if you already played Ideal. This is why I'm using Blood Moon MD right now, a lot of Tron decks around.
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqbjfwP8DJg
The guy made a deck tech in two parts and also some 3 videos of game play, but I think that his list is a little weak compared to the actual deck.
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
Actually, you can most certainly stop "them" from playing lands. Moreso, however, you can not let your opposition develop so greatly that they resolve a 15 mana win condition that you can otherwise answer with ease. If they sneak it into play with anything but turn 2/3 Goryo, you can stop it.
At the end of the day, if your build isn't going off by turn 5 at the VERY latest, you need to fix your deck.
I'm not angry, either. I just know the deck enough to realize that Tron is probably the (first or second) best match-up you have with Ideal, so if you're losing to a hardcast Emrakul, you're not doing the deck justice.
There is no rule you have to cast Ideal by turn five, so don't spew that nonsense. You just need to be faster than your opponent.
I lost once because my opponent got to 13 mana through Tron lands (with the Eldrazi Con) that he was searching up via Maps and Sylvans before Dovescape could come down to stop him. You would have lost in that situation too. It was rare, and may never happen again, even without Blood Moon. Look, you can't speak in absolutes because 1) Magic is too high variance, and 2) it kills development.
I do this deck plenty of justice. I mean you're clearly better than all of us though. You've contributed a lot of knowledge with solid evidence to back it.
Before the deck was in such a bad place in the format, I did. Note the previous two major Ideal threads, in which I contributed often and well enough to know the deck and its evolution.
It's probably the seventh best combo deck in the format, now, and cannot be played to a respectable finish in a serious setting.
Great, more baseless claims. So don't post if you're not interested in developing the deck.
most of the time tron is too slow, and when they do manage to get out an emrakuel mid-kill, that's fine, just sac some lands and a spent pentad prism and o-ring it next turn. im assuming most decks only carry one emrakuel thanks to eye of ugin.
and there's nothing wrong with dropping ideal turn 5-7. so long as you make sure your opponent can't kill you/combo out(kill you)/ramp(and then kill you).
and chosen1, you really do come off as offensive. and no you have not contributed anything thus far here. unless you expect us to trawl through the archives and study all your posts.
why not post your list and provide some explanations along with it, some of your match-ups, etc. and we can all forget that we got off on the wrong foot?
Here is my most recent list that I'm playing with a lot of success in Cockatrice and MWS (some times).
This is the best version I played so far and people really becomes unhappy with the lock! Dovescape + Unlife + Form! hehe...some people dont know the deck and this is very fun too.
When I get Dovescape with the first I deal some say that I cant search a second enchant cause Dovescape will counter Ideal! hehe
Right now, only the SB is have some strong "??". The deck is 98% complete.
4 Enduring Ideal
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
4 Seething Song
2 Form of the Dragon
1 Meishin, the Mind Cage
1 Dovescape
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Blood Moon
4 Remand
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Peer Through Depths
2 Serum Visions
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Mystic Gate
1 Rugged Prairie
2 City of Brass
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Silence
3 Wrath of God
1 Nevermore
1 Greater Auramancy
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
@Equinox - I use Firespout in my board (instead of Wrath of God) specifically because of Gaddock Teeg. He shuts down both Ideal and Form, so we're screwed unless we topdeck Oblivion Ring. It also helps with Thalia more often since it's cheaper.
Also, what about dropping those 2 Serum Visions for See Beyond? You have only 1 Dovescape, and if you draw it, you can't get it into play without committing to a win from Birds. I think it's a better fit for the deck than blind draw that's stuck in your grip.
In other news, I've dropped Greater Auramancy from my board. I never have time to get it in the Ideal chain. And I run 2-of my important enchantments for a reason, so I cut it.
Greater Auramancy I think is important to have, there is a lot of creatures that destroy enchant being used right now.
About Serum x See Beyond, I was using See Beyond, but I prefer to have 6 one mana digging over 6 two mana digging, but the 2% of the deck I think that can change is this 2 slots. For now Serum Visions is my preferred, but See Beyond, Gitaxian Probe, Condescend, Court hussar, or some removal are still in test.
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
I've really never used the Greater Auramancy to any meaningful degree. I've sided it in before, but I've never had to search it up. What creatures blow up enchantments besides Pridemage? I haven't seen any. Without GSZ in the format, I'm not too worried that they'll be sandbagging a Pridemage, and I am using exclusively discard for protection now (4 IoK, 2 Thoughtseize) so I can pluck it out of their hand if they are anyways.
And I am using Sleight of Hand now. Extending your opener two more cards is great for finding Lotus Bloom to suspend the first turn. I'm not sure how your testing is going without the artifact, Nuke, but I'd be interested if your ever short of mana when you need it.
And I rarely am short mana-wise. Turn 5 ideal is extremely consistent. On rare occasions, I'll have to got to turn 6 or 7. But more often (although still fairly rare) ill get turn 3-4 ideal. Most delays are due to playing it safe, like if I need to spend a turn to drop a clique and tweak their hand or something.
3 Arid Mesa
3 Marsh Flats
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Plains
4 Gemstone Mine
3 City of Brass
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Boros Garrison
Spells (39)
4 Sleight of Hand
4 See Beyond
3 Peer Through Depths
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Firespout
3 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
4 Seething Song
4 Enduring Ideal
1 Dovescape
2 Phyrexian Unlife
2 Form of the Dragon
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Duress
3 Pithing Needle
1 Firespout
1 Blood Moon
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Rule of Law
Here's my thinking with the sideboard now.
4 Leyline of Sanctity - When you're playing against discard decks, you bring in all four. When you're playing against any deck with burn, you bring in one, just in case.
4 Duress - An extension of the four maindeck IoK. Any U(x) control deck will not be able to sit on their counters. I used to play Boseiju, but these are the types of decks that use Tectonic Edge.
3 Pithing Needle - Birthing Pod, Qasali Pridemage, Kiki-Jiki, Proclamation of Rebirth, Expedition Map, Eye of Ugin
1 Firespout - Extension of three maindeck.
1 Blood Moon - Tron.
1 Greater Aurmancy - Safety net for Pridemage/Pod decks.
1 Rule of Law - Storm. In case they can somehow manage to kill you in the one turn before you lock them. This is only a test.
Well, that's it for now. If anybody has been testing lately, I'd like to hear what you're learning.
Its a awesome deck! Still winning a lot!
My number one deck is my UR Delver Burn, but Ideal is just a little bit behind. For sure is very fun to play and with awesome looking cards too.
White board FotD in white sleeves are grate! hehe
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
Also magma jet has been working pretty well. Smacks a boat-load of creatures barring like goyf, and pretty much only goyf. Everything else can be taken down with some help from timely tokens. I'd run it over sleight of hand.
Aggro has become my best matchup, but I still carry some slagstorms in the sideboard.
Control is annoying but still fairly handle able due to their low pressure.
We can easily stay on par with other combo speed wise, and since we only need one card our consistency is through the roof.
Tempo is our boogeyman IMO. Especially delver. Remand is just a kick to the balls when all our ramp is one-time-use. And they apply too much pressure for us to reliably bust through their control.
Edit:
Anyone tried devestating tide yet? Looks awesome for this deck as (barring timely tokens who aren't built to last anyway) it is completely one-sided
Also, would use 4 Serum Visions again to make a good synergy with Miracle....and maybe take a look at Telling Time EOT for Miracle!
I think that there some other Miracle cards that can be useful for us! I'll take a look today.
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
News?
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
For the deck is playing very fine!
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
It's been working pretty well, but I've had a couple close calls.
It could also replace some dig, since you would be able to draw two one your turn.
EDH:
:symw::symw::symw:Darien:symw::symw::symw:
:symr::symr::symr:Lovisa:symr::symr::symr:
:symu::symw::symg:Rafiq:symu::symw::symg:
:symb::symr::symg:Karrthus:symb::symr::symg:
:symr::symw::symb:Kaalia:symr::symw::symb:
EDH:
:symw::symw::symw:Darien:symw::symw::symw:
:symr::symr::symr:Lovisa:symr::symr::symr:
:symu::symw::symg:Rafiq:symu::symw::symg:
:symb::symr::symg:Karrthus:symb::symr::symg:
:symr::symw::symb:Kaalia:symr::symw::symb: