Notes on the update:
-Mana base is MUCH better. The Calciform Pools don't Nonbo with SField and now I can dig to more relevant enchantments. Although, It [i]should[/i] be 4 Temple of Triumphs in case I need to hard cast Form of the Dragon, but that is such a minor detail.
-Porphyry Nodes is an all star in this meta. I have had it be [i]at least[/i] a two-for-one every most times I played it. three-for-one is easy to pull off too.
-No Maindeck Dovescape has not seemed to hurt me.
-Having a split between Banishing Light and ORing has been relevant due to Maestrom Pulse in BGx decks. I chose 1 more Banishing Light over the Oring because the art is sweeter. Greater Auramancy has been an MVP in those matches as well.
These changes seemed minor, but I feel like the deck is twice as smooth and consistent. Plus I am becoming more familiar with it, so that helps. And I cannot emphasize enough how powerful Leyline and SField are. They hit so much more than you expect.
EDIT: Additionally, this has happened twice, although it is a small corner case. But against Kiki Chord or Abzan Company, my opponent has been able to go Pridemage, into EWitness to get back Pridemage, into Abrupt Decay, into Chord for Ewit to get back Decay etc. and keep rucurring ways to destroy enchantments after I had already hit the Epic. One guy even used a Cataclysmic Gearhulk [I didn't even know that was a Magic card!!!] So I couldn't stick the Unlife and Form at the same time. I would keep tutoring for Greater Auramancy or Sphere of Safety to buy time, but they would just hit the bin. So eventually I looked up Starfield and had enough life to take a big hit, then I was tutoring for two Enchantments each turn. Eventually that was enough to win both matches, but it was really tough with all the hate. So, I don't know if it should be Main or Side, but think of including 1 Starfield for cases like this. Or when they pull off the Fracturing Gust (Ouch...).
Notes on the update:
-Mana base is MUCH better. The Calciform Pools don't Nonbo with SField and now I can dig to more relevant enchantments. Although, It [i]should[/i] be 4 Temple of Triumphs in case I need to hard cast Form of the Dragon, but that is such a minor detail.
-Porphyry Nodes is an all star in this meta. I have had it be [i]at least[/i] a two-for-one every most times I played it. three-for-one is easy to pull off too.
-No Maindeck Dovescape has not seemed to hurt me.
-Having a split between Banishing Light and ORing has been relevant due to Maestrom Pulse in BGx decks. I chose 1 more Banishing Light over the Oring because the art is sweeter. Greater Auramancy has been an MVP in those matches as well.
These changes seemed minor, but I feel like the deck is twice as smooth and consistent. Plus I am becoming more familiar with it, so that helps. And I cannot emphasize enough how powerful Leyline and SField are. They hit so much more than you expect.
EDIT: Additionally, this has happened twice, although it is a small corner case. But against Kiki Chord or Abzan Company, my opponent has been able to go Pridemage, into EWitness to get back Pridemage, into Abrupt Decay, into Chord for Ewit to get back Decay etc. and keep rucurring ways to destroy enchantments after I had already hit the Epic. One guy even used a Cataclysmic Gearhulk [I didn't even know that was a Magic card!!!] So I couldn't stick the Unlife and Form at the same time. I would keep tutoring for Greater Auramancy or Sphere of Safety to buy time, but they would just hit the bin. So eventually I looked up Starfield and had enough life to take a big hit, then I was tutoring for two Enchantments each turn. Eventually that was enough to win both matches, but it was really tough with all the hate. So, I don't know if it should be Main or Side, but think of including 1 Starfield for cases like this. Or when they pull off the Fracturing Gust (Ouch...).
Well I forgot to keep an eye on this forum, so this is late.
The answer to a chain like this is Dovescape main to switch off Chord. S fields slow them down early, but won't stop the P mage late game, and won't hit Rec Sage at all. If you have a pair of GA then you are also golden, but with the ability to put Dovescape on the bottom if destroyed you should be able to win post epic 100% of the time if you already have a couple of taxes down- unless you are super close to death to begin with or they can combo to some kind of win in the first couple of turns. I always tutor for Dovescape or GA first to make my current stuff safer, unless I am needing an Unlife there and then and have to go for it.
An interesting point is they have to respond to the Epic trigger. They don't get to see what you search for, meaning if you run U as I do you can conceivably fetch a Confiscate (I run the odd one in the 75), and nick their Pridemage. They don't get a chance to respond to the Confiscate. The confiscate can also circumvent Hexproof when put into play like this (it can't when cast obviously).
So, some gut top8'ed an IQ. Now, before anything, consider that this sort of events typically doesn't involve necesarilly Pro players or tier decks.
I'm not trying to discredit the pilot or the build here, I'm rather telling you to read these results carefully.
IMO, and trying to answer some earlier comments as well, a full set of Suppression fields is a must for this deck. That said, anything that has an activated ability is a nonbo for the deck. That includes lands (fetch, storage and even mistveil plains and ghost quarter), planeswalkers, stuff like Heliod, peace of mind and a long etc. Unfortunately we can't afford to miss cards like mistveil plains or GQ, but we must avoid taxing ourselves as much as we can.
Secondly, I believe we'd benefit a lot from watching some gameplays of our own builds. So I encourage you to play a couple games on yer computers anywhere (xmage, cockatrice, octgn or MTGO if you've got the money), record them and upload the whole thing to the internet.
I'm a tad outdated since I haven't been playing anything but pauper and Magic Duels for the last months. But now, having a better internet connection as well as more spare time, I'll try to do so.
My latter version is this one . This isn't written in stone at all (if that's anyhow achievable anyway), but the last version I've toyed around with. Some changes will be probably made, being 1)Ensnaring Bridge, 9)peace of mind, and probably (although it will deeply hurt my heart) 972)assemble the legion (altough I'm not in love with the idea of running just 1 wincon). Those cards might find the way outta my deck, or go to sb.
On the other hand, Dovescape is a card I NEED somewhere in my 75's as it helps a ton against a variety of decks (mostly control, but BGx, Tron and etceteras as well). So I'm not cutting it at all, rather moving it back and forth between the mb and sb.
I'm willing to include some cheap removal for faster decks, but I'm not certain of what to choose and what to cut for that. Blessed Alliance caught my eye as lifegain might be relevant, as well as non-targeted removal. Porphyry nodes is a card I always wanted to include. A 1 for 1 is good if you're dealing with a tarmogoyf for instance, the fact it can go bigger than that certainly is a blast, and is non-targeted which is actually great against some decks, but as it has been said before, it's slow and unreliable at times since you don't choose what to destroy.
I've never considered path to exile given its intrinsec anti-tax nature, but it doesn't get any better than that when we talk about white removal.
And finally a card that I believe has plenty of potential anywhere in our 75's is chalice of the void. Casting it for 2, means stopping a plethora of stuff that very often we struggle with. Think of glistener elf, mana dorks, lightning bolt and his burn friends, death's shadow, thoughtseize and friends, and even other -probably- less relevant stuff like serum visions, ad nauseam's angel's grace, etc. And that only targeting 1 CMC. Now, go and play another copy at 2 CMC, ???, PROFIT!
I have to say, I saw someone's list in this thread, packing 4x chalices and I fell in love for the idea.
Anyway, my sb will be as wide as possible since xmage meta shifts constantly. Sometimes you face tier decks, sometimes janky kitchen table stuff. So, except for bribery, which I'll probably cut OR at least splice with confiscate, SB choices intend to fix our worst matchups while being versatile.
As usual, any opinions, advices, threats, blackmails, money are encouraged.
Cheers.
SST.
Oh, and Rest in Peace won't let Flagstones trigger.
I agree about the list used, it looks slightly odd in places, but there are enough "I win" cards to make it potentially ride all the way to the top.
As ever, as long as the core is in place, this deck has certain matches that are really easy, and only a couple of stinkers- RG and GW Tron, U tron, Elves after boarding and some versions of certain BG X decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
SO I did the San Antonio GP, and got slaughtered, lol. Lot of it had to do with me misplaying. I died twice to an infect land that I could have ghost quarter, oops. But had a lot of fun. People always like seeing something different, and this one is one of the lesser played decks. Big problem, though, is many games that I could have won, like I was winning, I lost because of time. My current win con is very very control based and slow, and people have a hard time responding or knowing what to do so the first game will take almost 30 mins if I managed to gain control. So I if I end up loosing that first match, it is nigh impossible to win the best of 3 in 50 mins, just not doable. In that, other peoples ideas of speeding it up with titans or gods or starfield would likely help you a lot! Being able to actually swing for damage at all, in fact, helps a lot against all the plains walkers which I have surprisingly few answers for.
So in the end, I played the deck poorly because of nerves and even the games I had done well on went to time and cost us some wins (it was 3 player constructed modern, it was awesome). Anyway, I did manage one actual match win out of 9 against affinity. Would have had 2 other matches if I didn't mess up with infect lands, so all in all, pretty satisfied. Karn/tron still wrecks my face, I am going to have to think about that, and the new tooth and nail combo is really hard to stop as well.
I have been working on this deck for a couple of weeks or so as well. I love the idea and style. I am not a very experienced magic player and even less so for Modern. I have played off and on for years but generally just for a month at a time (then a new expansion would come out and I would not want to have to start over and would drift away.) So modern offers a bit more stability.
I played a lot of standard turbo fog. Current standard lacks turbo and cheap fog but I thought modern turbo fog was awesome, but so were all of the other decks so as I tweaked my fog deck it became more pillow fort and then pillow fort leads to Enduring ideal. I don't think I am either a particularly good player or deck builder. Unfortunate since I cam't seem to bring myself to play a tier 1, 1.5 or even solid 2. I really need to feel like I am brewing something, in this case I brewed what you guys already had. So here are my experiences and comments having read every page of this thread.
Suppression Field is such an under valued star. I almost never regret that being my first play. I like to pack it on because it also slows down my most dreaded card Engineered explosives. F'ing hate that card. PW's sac lands. Everything worth doing seems to have an activation cost. And none of it would be worth it at +2, +4, +10 (yea +10, i'll get to that).
Porphyry Nodes I can't figure out how people cut them. I know they can be played around but how is that much different then a W silence. As an early play against many decks it munches mana dorks. Is "Bolt the Bird" no longer a thing. I always think of it as a little pac man munching away and sure they play dorks to be the fodder to save the real threats but if they are playing dorks they are not paying taxes.
Great early play against eldrazi.
I can say that of 2 occasions I had opponents think the interaction between the Nodes and Heliod, God of the Sun was broken.
Speaking of which:
Heliod, God of the Sun How does this get cut. Right now in standard Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is probably the best card. I have faced it in modern. This is so much better. Ours actually blocks and with Greater Auramancy is an indestructible, shrouded creature. Isn't that broken by definition? I don't really care about producing dudes, just man the battlements and charge across an empty battlefield (thanks Porphyry Nodes).
Greater Auramancy, I don't see how that is not on every list. I personally don't think I need the 2 of hard lock. I consider it an ablative shield to cause the opponent to sacrifice resources and tempo to remove an enchantment that is not effecting him in order to hopefully have the resources and tempo to remove the enchantment that is. I only need 1 any way because of my last card.
Copy Enchantment I am clearly alone in thinking this is the second best card in the deck. Because what ever card is working for you, this is a second copy. This is the second Greater Auramancy or Sphere of Safety. Its the perfect card at the perfect time mid game. If you really need another Ghostly prison not another Suppression field or vice versa. Named the wrong card with Runed Halo, get it right the second time. Its the ultimate batman utility belt in our deck. So I can't figure why I am the only one running it. Is it just my inexperience? Maybe 2 is not the right number but how is 0 the right number in this deck. I even tutored one up to double my Form of the Dragon fun and close the game a turn earlier.
I know a lot of people are using Path to exile. I think it is great turn 2 - 5 but not really needed as much after. Really just want it for infect and the like. I decided to go with the idea that I can't be optimal at everything so I am just trying to do the thing I do well, as well as I can do it.
I hope people are still involved with this deck because I am on this pony for the long haul.
Here is my current deck. I suck at SB so it is mostly a copy . Against tron I just put in Bribery If I get it out early I can win if not no amount of sideboarding was really going to change that.
I have been playing the red splash version and I have decided to try the blue splash since I just keep losing to tron and am hoping that blue can give me an edge. Can I get some sideboard advice for the blue splash
I may not be the best one to advise, but my experience has been the same as others here. This deck relies on 'things' to work. Tron specializes in removing 'things'. I found that I could devote my whole sideboard to Tron hate and get closer to 50/50 but still they have more answers and when they drop them they are nuclear. You literally need to gold fish a hand of Leyline of Sanctity, Pithing needle and Nevermore followed up with some Bribery every time.
Personally I found the red splash with Blood Moon and Crumble to Dust to be more effective then a blue splash except that blue worked better in the deck as a whole.
Ultimately I decided to write off the Tron match and focus on winning other matches.
I also just thought if you are in R you might try Boros Charm to protect your stuff from every damn thing Tron does to our stuff.
I have been playing the red splash version and I have decided to try the blue splash since I just keep losing to tron and am hoping that blue can give me an edge. Can I get some sideboard advice for the blue splash
Bribery - get to 5 cc, cast, nick their Ulamog/ whatever, win the game if they don't have a Karn there and then. Problem is the card is there for one match only, unless you fancy trying to resolve it against Nahiri decks or Reanimators. You need to try and race through your deck to get to it, and include some Ghost Quarters too. If you get to it first you will probably win. The post board matchup can get good, but the game 1 matchup is unwinnable.
The rest of the board in the blue splash for tron should be Spreading Seas type effects to go with some Ghost Quarters main, plus Stony Silence and any Rule of Law or Eidolon of Rhetoric effects (they have a lot of cantrips and get slowed by these - when you have the mana to do 3/4 things a turn but have to cast a 1cc spell only it sucks.) You can never stop tron with Nevermore effects and normal thinking.
The red version is actually stronger against Tron game 1 normally, but only because if you run Blood Moon you have a main deck card that can buy time. Crumble to dust is strong game 2, in pillow-fort I use Obliterate and a couple of Karoo lands to help me get there (preferably bouncing a Scry land). Obliterate can steal the odd game 1 win. I run enchantment control/pillowfort as Red, and Ideal as blue, and I bite the bullet and play 2 x bribery, plus Seas and Stonies + Rule of Law in the board too. I also run Starfield main as its the best wincon vs Tron if you do manage to get to a position where it is slowed for whatever reason- a Heliod may be able to win the game, but often a Starfield is enough for one turn.
Confiscate is another blue board card that can nick either a Tron land or a resolved planeswalker like Karn.
Current standard lacks turbo and cheap fog but I thought modern turbo fog was awesome, but so were all of the other decks so as I tweaked my fog deck it became more pillow fort and then pillow fort leads to Enduring ideal.
I come from turbo fog as well, modern actually. It's better than Enduring Ideal against combat based decks, but it struggles against decks which can attack from other angles. It's a blast to play that though, I even rewrote/revamped the whole primer, which TBH haven't updated since a long time as I haven't been toying with that deck recently.
I really need to feel like I am brewing something.
I know that feel bro, never gonna see me playing Jund.
Suppression Field is such an under valued star. I almost never regret that being my first play. I like to pack it on because it also slows down my most dreaded card Engineered explosives. F'ing hate that card. PW's sac lands. Everything worth doing seems to have an activation cost. And none of it would be worth it at +2, +4, +10 (yea +10, i'll get to that).
I always stood for this card. Screws a plethora of things, gains us time to cast EI, gives us white devotion for Nykthos, mistveil plains and heliod, god of the sun love it as well, and it only costs 2 CMC. If you have a reason for not playing 4 copies, it must be a really good one.
Porphyry Nodes I can't figure out how people cut them. I know they can be played around but how is that much different then a W silence. As an early play against many decks it munches mana dorks. Is "Bolt the Bird" no longer a thing. I always think of it as a little pac man munching away and sure they play dorks to be the fodder to save the real threats but if they are playing dorks they are not paying taxes.
Great early play against eldrazi.
I can say that of 2 occasions I had opponents think the interaction between the Nodes and Heliod, God of the Sun was broken.
Yeah, porphyry nodes is TBH something I haven't toyed around with enough probably. IMO having a 1 for 1 is already good, otherwise people wouldn't be playing path to exile or fatal push. The only issue is intrinsec to nodes itself. As good as it is removing a creature a turn, or a single creature at least, we don't get to choose which one to kill. That sometimes is enough, but other times means we're killing a mana dork, but letting them keep their <insert biggie here>. I'd struggle to say what is overall better, if the Nodes+heliod lock, or packing a couple ensnaring bridges as I do for instance, or just having some conventional removal instead. I believe it's pretty much situational and the results may vary with the most subtle changes. E.G. if the opponent has a death's shadow and a tarmogoyf out, porphyry nodes will kill them in 2 turns if nothing else is played, ensnaring bridge will stop them from attacking if we don't have much cards in hand, and conventional removal will kill only one of them. Now, that's a very simple situation and we're discussing only 5 cards there, we're not even mentioning life points, removal, other enchantments, and we're not even discussing how big are those creatures.
And I didn't mention Heliod yet!
So, sometimes it's better to pack nodes, sometimes other stuff like bridge or conventional, (mostly) instant speed, stuff. It depends on your meta, your taste, your overall strategy and <sadly> your luck at times.
Personally, I left nodes aside because of assemble the legion, but EI list including the Heliod+nodes lock are popular as well.
Which leads to:
Heliod, God of the Sun How does this get cut. Right now in standard Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is probably the best card. I have faced it in modern. This is so much better. Ours actually blocks and with Greater Auramancy is an indestructible, shrouded creature. Isn't that broken by definition? I don't really care about producing dudes, just man the battlements and charge across an empty battlefield (thanks Porphyry Nodes).
This isn't standard, Gideon doesn't see much play here in modern, in fact, if you search it on mtggoldfish for instance there's not a single modern deck using that card. That said, Heliod's main downside isn't that it non-boes with suppression field, but that it does nothing without devotion (he, I think I finally understood religion, there aren't gods without devotion). That said, yes, he is a really good blocker given its indestructibility, sinergises greatly with nodes, and a legit wincon. He's good if you're in a favourable board state.
Greater Auramancy, I don't see how that is not on every list. I personally don't think I need the 2 of hard lock. I consider it an ablative shield to cause the opponent to sacrifice resources and tempo to remove an enchantment that is not effecting him in order to hopefully have the resources and tempo to remove the enchantment that is. I only need 1 any way because of my last card.
-Checked, 1 or 2 ought to be played. I play 2 copies not only for the lock, but to have more 2 CMC drops, which is relevant for 1-devotion 2-playing around counterspells 3- filling the mana curve. But one copy is good as well for tempo reasons.
Copy Enchantment I am clearly alone in thinking this is the second best card in the deck. Because what ever card is working for you, this is a second copy. This is the second Greater Auramancy or Sphere of Safety. Its the perfect card at the perfect time mid game. If you really need another Ghostly prison not another Suppression field or vice versa. Named the wrong card with Runed Halo, get it right the second time. Its the ultimate batman utility belt in our deck. So I can't figure why I am the only one running it. Is it just my inexperience? Maybe 2 is not the right number but how is 0 the right number in this deck. I even tutored one up to double my Form of the Dragon fun and close the game a turn earlier.
I probably need to test this more. I've always feared having nothing relevant to copy. Also, it doesn't grant devotion.
I know a lot of people are using Path to exile. I think it is great turn 2 - 5 but not really needed as much after. Really just want it for infect and the like. I decided to go with the idea that I can't be optimal at everything so I am just trying to do the thing I do well, as well as I can do it.
Yup, relevant against really aggro decks like infect, but otherwise it has a bad sinergy with our taxes. If I wanted to pack some removal of the kind, I'd go for blessed alliance since it doesn't target at first. Remember infect plays stuff like vines of vastwood, apostle's blessing and blossoming defense for precisely path to exile-like removal (and blockers, and etceteras)
I only used stasis snare for stopping emrakul or the likes and instant speed. I believe O-Ring and D-Sphere are better choices than that since they can target more things. If you're struggling with early game creatures though, you can go with journey to nowhere where[/card] as well.
I hope people are still involved with this deck because I am on this pony for the long haul.
Well, as long as I'm interested in MTG, this will probably be my deck of choice. I Just like this sort of strategy.
As for your list, I'm really willing to try it as whole, doing some slight modifications.
1) cut fetchlands for scrylands because of suppression fields
2) cut 2 islands for more scrylands (scry is relevant for this deck since we lack deck manipulation, tutors, draw or else apart from monastery siege)
3) Cut oblivion ring, go to 25 lands with one more hallowed fountain.
4) I'd change the sb as well, but that depends on your meta.
5) 1 copy enchantment out, 1 greater auramancy in.
6) ???
7) Profit
The only input I have for your comment is that Copy Enchantment does provide devotion to white because it becomes a copy of whatever enchantment you wish, meaning that it obtains all attributes of the copied card.
Personally, I think a single copy of this card is great to have since it is so flexible. Among other uses, it can allow you to set up double Greater Auramancy in a deck with only a single copy and probably even more importantly, double your clock on Form of the Dragon. It's probably not a card you're going to search out very often once you're "going off", but it's a nice play in the mid game before you cast Enduring Ideal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Post Ravnica Allegiance Type 2 - WUB Control
States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
I appreciate your responses.
I have long since learned not to disregard more experienced players input.
Couple of points. I am one hundred percent sold on copy enchantment. Particularly instead of a second Greater Auramancy I've also started adding a single indestructibility that allows me to protect a form of the Dragon or anything else of that nature including in RM NC. Slightly more resilient to sweepers.
Another interesting point was your suggestion to run a higher land count. I had started with 26 lands as any good control deck does, but I found myself removing a land at a time. This decks sweet spot is 3 lands. We can obtain a lock with that few. And I am concerned with a land base that is somewhat resilient to land destruction and disruption. I also think that it's Entagling Bridge is the best lock available. I like it better than safety sphere It has great synergy with Monastery siege which enables me to keep my hand clear.
On that note I think it is preferable to run Monastery Siege rather than a dedicated spell that does nothing but recycle your discards.
My biggest concern with Ensnaring Bridge is that it has no coordination with any other win condition other than form of the Dragon. I can't ever seem to get out of my own way, whether I'm running luminarch Ascension , Sigil of the empty throne or Heliod, God of the Sun. I am desperately trying to find a second win con that does not interfere with the Bridge. I have literally been going through every card in the game trying to find something that fits here. Preferable something that is not useless on its own. I think I am stcuk with the God and have to just figure out how to avoid the bridge.
I have been testing more removal and I find it works well in many circumstances, but unfortunately it is best in the circumstances in which we are strong. I think Blessed Alliance might be the answer, but unfortunately there's a glitch in Xmage that prevents me from using it.
I've also been testing a copy of open the Vaults as an alternate way to dump form of the Dragon onto the battlefield after the monastery siege. It is effective but I don't think I ever came up on a game in which it was the reason I won. I think I like it because it gives me piece of mind against sweepers. Still I think It is cvoming out.
The only other chaneg I am contemplating is one copy of indestructibility. Again as a second auramancy replacement. Casting this on your Greater Auramancy is the same as having 2 out and it is flexible to allow me to put it on a form or Phyrexian Unlife or ensnaring bridge.
I have experience of both EI and Pillow -Fort decks, indeed I wrote the Primer for Pillow-Fort, as well as RW Prisons in tier 2. I can honestly say that the best advice for any prison list- which is what EI is in the first part of the game- is to include Scrylands. There is no need to run fetches in any non blood moon based list, and the life loss is actually relevant in this format. They also nonbo with S Field, costing 2 mana to use.
The Scrylands are what helped push RW prisons from deck creation to tier two, there have even been enchantment control lists doing well at SCG type events running 5-6 Scrylands with the second color not used. Every RW Prison list in bigger events not using Blood Moon uses 4 Scrland and 0 fetch, and even Blood Moon lists run both. Scrylands being adopted really helped push the deck from creation to tier two, alongside other new powerful options.
Probably the first lesson people learn when building MTG deck is the power of fetches and how 1 life is a small price to pay, but that lesson simply does apply here- life is vital against faster decks, and the Scry is invaluable in a deck where cards are often brilliant or unusable, or more likely, uncastable in the near future. EI is a bit of a combo finish on top of a prison shell, and combo decks like Ad Nauseam are also full of Scrylands too. I know the Mistveils are CIP tapped, but 4 Scrylands + 2 is not a bad place to be, what you lose on the odd turn you gain in selection and 0 lifeloss.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Someone pointed out Gideon's Intervention on the Pillow Fort thread.
Potentially good news for both enchantment archetypes. As I said on that thread, its a shame its about damage prevention rather than activated abilities- if it could stop a planeswalker in play it is more useful than just preventing damage.
As a minimum a one copy for EI main deck should be good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I took your advice about the scry lands and can see their power. But I have run into a couple of decks that do land disruption and those have become problematic.(blockhouse and Living End decks)
I am going to have to weigh the frequency of theses decks and see if it offsets the advantages of the scrying
Seems like the combo of Sandworm Convergence and Dovescape is notably better than Dovescape and Form of the Dragon. Plus, it lets you cut down on a color if you were going green anyway. I haven't ever had a chance to build any modern decks (broke T.T), but I'd love to build this one, and I really wanna try Convergence in it if I do
Saw Enduring Ideal as CFB Deck-du-Jour today. What's with the inclusion of Temple of Plenty and Temple Garden? I thought Temple of Triumph was standard to access red mana to hardcast Form of the Dragon if need be. I see multiple pieces of green mana tech in the sideboard (Eidolon of Blossoms et al)but is that a good reason to hamstring the mainboard mana base?
Temples are just great in the deck, full stop- there is a limit to ETB tapped numbers, of course, but scrying is so strong.
I think green offers little to both EI and general Pillow Fort enchantment control builds- if you are trying to control the game there are few to zero worthy green inclusions, cards like Choke are weaker than in Legacy. I think in some peoples' minds green is associated with enchantments due to the Legacy deck Enchantress, so it feels natural to include stuff like Eidolons without it necessarily being right or wrong. Eidolon probably tweaks a match here or there. In reality white is the best board col anyway, and to an extent the deck is pre sideboarded, in that its based upon a bunch of effectively sideboard cards as the prison part of the shell.
You have to ask what is the board for? The answer is that its either to tweak matches here and there or to radically change terrible ones. I prefer the latter, and only run the odd Boseiju type card that increases the number of copies and don't radically alter the way the deck works. Ultimately the decks are white X, and when X is red you get Blood Moon for greedy decks, Boil for Islands, and some Crumble to dust sideboard tech for the hard tron matches. When is U you get Spreading Seas and Bribery for those Tron matches. Green to me does not offer super game changers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I tend to agree with you drmarkb, white has enough to carry if you plan to win with ideal. If you have some other variant of pillow fort that wins without some ideal condition then minor or massive deviations start to sound better. But the idea that "splash is for the hate" makes a lot of since. Been playing a lot of online games to iron it out and so far, my idea to splash blue...cause of these 2 cool spells isn't working well at all. Think I might sub out my supreme verdict and detention spheres for more whiteish spells and focus my color/hateboard better.
Couple of points. I am one hundred percent sold on copy enchantment. Particularly instead of a second Greater Auramancy I've also started adding a single indestructibility that allows me to protect a form of the Dragon or anything else of that nature including in RM NC. Slightly more resilient to sweepers.
I can only think of really narrow situations in which getting indestructibility to the field is either better than greater auramancy or dovescape. Uncountereable enchantment sweepers aren't really a thing though,
Another interesting point was your suggestion to run a higher land count. I had started with 26 lands as any good control deck does, but I found myself removing a land at a time. This decks sweet spot is 3 lands. We can obtain a lock with that few. And I am concerned with a land base that is somewhat resilient to land destruction and disruption.
Well, I started at 24, then went up to 26 because I couldn't get to 7 lands to play EI, then went down to 25. But whatever works for you! I don't have much experience vs LD.
I also think that it's Entagling Bridge is the best lock available. I like it better than safety sphere It has great synergy with Monastery siege which enables me to keep my hand clear(...) My biggest concern with Ensnaring Bridge is that it has no coordination with any other win condition other than form of the Dragon. I can't ever seem to get out of my own way, whether I'm running luminarch Ascension , Sigil of the empty throne or Heliod, God of the Sun. I am desperately trying to find a second win con that does not interfere with the Bridge. I have literally been going through every card in the game trying to find something that fits here. Preferable something that is not useless on its own. I think I am stcuk with the God and have to just figure out how to avoid the bridge.
It's good, I wouldn't say better than safety sphere because it's pretty much situational. Sometimes you're willing to tax a wide board situation filled with 1/1 tokens and then the sphere is better. Sometimes you want to stop a singleton emrakul, and then bridge is better.
Nevermind Luminarch, sigil or Heliod. Try Assemble the legion! Draw, keep card in hand, attack, discard so they can't attack you, profit!
On that note I think it is preferable to run Monastery Siege rather than a dedicated spell that does nothing but recycle your discards.
Peace of mind has been on my 60's for a while because of bridge, probably gonna cut it the day I cut bridge from my deck. Monastery siege isn't really discard but card filtering, it doesn't really help for the bridge lock, other than eventually giving you something you can cast or a land, so you reduce your hand size by casting/dropping that.
@everyone Gideon's intervention looks like one potential toy for us. I'd play that over nevermore since it grants more flexibility. The only downside is the cost. What else would you cut for it? How many copies? I think 2 of them at least on our 75's won't hurt.
Sandwurm convergence is IMO mostly worse than Form of the dragon. 1. It only helps against flyers, which are the least in the current meta. 2.Less reliable wincon than FOTD, since tokens are vulnerable to removal. 3.Doesn't combo with phyrexian unlife which makes up our best lock in the deck. 4.Not possible to hardcast unless you're playing green or something. Pretty much what @Laredian said, heh.
I only got to play a couple matches in the last weeks. I remember beating naya burn 2-1 with no leyline at all in g1, which I lost, just beaters which got slowed down by ghostly prison, and then he burnt me for the rest. G2 I got double leyline out, and turn 2 chalice of the void at 1. He had no creatures out yet, so he probably saw his goblin guides and friends rot in his hand. Then greater auramancy, runed halo naming eidolon of the great revel, monastery siege, and after a couple turns EI+FOTD FTW. Game 3 no turn 0 leyline, got chalice of the void online on turn 2 as well, so most of his burn became useless. Stopped a goblin guide with oblivion ring, runed halo'ed his eidolon (amazing he found that card on every game), then auramancy, ghostly prison, and EI+FOTD again. GG, WP.
Then I remember playing against a control build, grixis control to be precise. Lost 2-0 against that. Just remember spell snare and spell pierce cost 1 CMC, so you probably have to cast your relevant stuff after your opponent has casted one or a couple of those, or after he's tapped out.
Also, it sucks when your seventh land for EI is an untapped boseiju, who shelters all and you're at 2 or less life. More defense grid for me, less boseiju. haha.
I can't beat tron at all. It's pretty disheartening, but I think we just lose against that kind of deck. Our deck is almost entirely about taxing, and that is the exactly opposite kind of thing, were they have infinite money. You can attempt sideboarding hate to slowdown the mana cascade or pith some of the mega abilities. But with no peaking ability, it is hard to lock down what to name as all the threats a pretty much the end for us. Turn 4 Karn is just insta scoop for me.
Only thing to do with Tron is run Bribery in the board to have a puncher's chance- and interfere with their mana via GQ/Spreading seas + stony s to slow the mana rocks to buy the time to draw it- GQ + surgical extraction can slow them too . Using confiscate in the main is decent as you can sometimes nick a Ulamog type card, and running Starfield of Nyx might get you a winning alpha strike if you can slow them with GQ etc. But you are talking 10-12 sideboard cards swapping out taxes to even have half a chance.
The red versions can at least run Moon and post board C T Dust.
Abzan is ok though, their mana base hates Suppression Field and you can slow the board down and interfere with any combos they sneak in if they are a toolbox.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Brief update: I have updated my list slightly.
12 Plains
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Mistveil Plains
4 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Temple of Triumph
Enchantments (36)
4 Porphyry Nodes
4 Suppression Field
4 Runed Halo
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Peace of Mind
3 Banishing Light
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Ghostly Prison
1 Phyrexian Unlife
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Form of the Dragon
4 Enduring Ideal
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Sanctimony
4 Stony Silence
4 Nevermore
2 Aura of Silence
1 Rule of Law
1 Dovescape
Notes on the update:
-Mana base is MUCH better. The Calciform Pools don't Nonbo with SField and now I can dig to more relevant enchantments. Although, It [i]should[/i] be 4 Temple of Triumphs in case I need to hard cast Form of the Dragon, but that is such a minor detail.
-Porphyry Nodes is an all star in this meta. I have had it be [i]at least[/i] a two-for-one every most times I played it. three-for-one is easy to pull off too.
-No Maindeck Dovescape has not seemed to hurt me.
-Having a split between Banishing Light and ORing has been relevant due to Maestrom Pulse in BGx decks. I chose 1 more Banishing Light over the Oring because the art is sweeter. Greater Auramancy has been an MVP in those matches as well.
These changes seemed minor, but I feel like the deck is twice as smooth and consistent. Plus I am becoming more familiar with it, so that helps. And I cannot emphasize enough how powerful Leyline and SField are. They hit so much more than you expect.
EDIT: Additionally, this has happened twice, although it is a small corner case. But against Kiki Chord or Abzan Company, my opponent has been able to go Pridemage, into EWitness to get back Pridemage, into Abrupt Decay, into Chord for Ewit to get back Decay etc. and keep rucurring ways to destroy enchantments after I had already hit the Epic. One guy even used a Cataclysmic Gearhulk [I didn't even know that was a Magic card!!!] So I couldn't stick the Unlife and Form at the same time. I would keep tutoring for Greater Auramancy or Sphere of Safety to buy time, but they would just hit the bin. So eventually I looked up Starfield and had enough life to take a big hit, then I was tutoring for two Enchantments each turn. Eventually that was enough to win both matches, but it was really tough with all the hate. So, I don't know if it should be Main or Side, but think of including 1 Starfield for cases like this. Or when they pull off the Fracturing Gust (Ouch...).
Well I forgot to keep an eye on this forum, so this is late.
The answer to a chain like this is Dovescape main to switch off Chord. S fields slow them down early, but won't stop the P mage late game, and won't hit Rec Sage at all. If you have a pair of GA then you are also golden, but with the ability to put Dovescape on the bottom if destroyed you should be able to win post epic 100% of the time if you already have a couple of taxes down- unless you are super close to death to begin with or they can combo to some kind of win in the first couple of turns. I always tutor for Dovescape or GA first to make my current stuff safer, unless I am needing an Unlife there and then and have to go for it.
An interesting point is they have to respond to the Epic trigger. They don't get to see what you search for, meaning if you run U as I do you can conceivably fetch a Confiscate (I run the odd one in the 75), and nick their Pridemage. They don't get a chance to respond to the Confiscate. The confiscate can also circumvent Hexproof when put into play like this (it can't when cast obviously).
I'm not trying to discredit the pilot or the build here, I'm rather telling you to read these results carefully.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-enduring-ideal-34762#online
IMO, and trying to answer some earlier comments as well, a full set of Suppression fields is a must for this deck. That said, anything that has an activated ability is a nonbo for the deck. That includes lands (fetch, storage and even mistveil plains and ghost quarter), planeswalkers, stuff like Heliod, peace of mind and a long etc. Unfortunately we can't afford to miss cards like mistveil plains or GQ, but we must avoid taxing ourselves as much as we can.
Secondly, I believe we'd benefit a lot from watching some gameplays of our own builds. So I encourage you to play a couple games on yer computers anywhere (xmage, cockatrice, octgn or MTGO if you've got the money), record them and upload the whole thing to the internet.
I'm a tad outdated since I haven't been playing anything but pauper and Magic Duels for the last months. But now, having a better internet connection as well as more spare time, I'll try to do so.
My latter version is this one . This isn't written in stone at all (if that's anyhow achievable anyway), but the last version I've toyed around with. Some changes will be probably made, being 1)Ensnaring Bridge, 9)peace of mind, and probably (although it will deeply hurt my heart) 972)assemble the legion (altough I'm not in love with the idea of running just 1 wincon). Those cards might find the way outta my deck, or go to sb.
On the other hand, Dovescape is a card I NEED somewhere in my 75's as it helps a ton against a variety of decks (mostly control, but BGx, Tron and etceteras as well). So I'm not cutting it at all, rather moving it back and forth between the mb and sb.
I'm willing to include some cheap removal for faster decks, but I'm not certain of what to choose and what to cut for that.
Blessed Alliance caught my eye as lifegain might be relevant, as well as non-targeted removal.
Porphyry nodes is a card I always wanted to include. A 1 for 1 is good if you're dealing with a tarmogoyf for instance, the fact it can go bigger than that certainly is a blast, and is non-targeted which is actually great against some decks, but as it has been said before, it's slow and unreliable at times since you don't choose what to destroy.
I've never considered path to exile given its intrinsec anti-tax nature, but it doesn't get any better than that when we talk about white removal.
And finally a card that I believe has plenty of potential anywhere in our 75's is chalice of the void. Casting it for 2, means stopping a plethora of stuff that very often we struggle with. Think of glistener elf, mana dorks, lightning bolt and his burn friends, death's shadow, thoughtseize and friends, and even other -probably- less relevant stuff like serum visions, ad nauseam's angel's grace, etc. And that only targeting 1 CMC. Now, go and play another copy at 2 CMC, ???, PROFIT!
I have to say, I saw someone's list in this thread, packing 4x chalices and I fell in love for the idea.
Anyway, my sb will be as wide as possible since xmage meta shifts constantly. Sometimes you face tier decks, sometimes janky kitchen table stuff. So, except for bribery, which I'll probably cut OR at least splice with confiscate, SB choices intend to fix our worst matchups while being versatile.
As usual, any opinions, advices, threats, blackmails, money are encouraged.
Cheers.
SST.
Otherwise is an upgraded plains as it can fetch you a mistveil plains or a shockland (I do play some number of hallowed fountain) for instance when playing multiple copies or when ghost quartering it.
So, if you're into a Blood Moon meta, then play as much plains as you can, otherwise go with 4x flagstones.
Sorry for the double post.
Cheers.
SST.
I agree about the list used, it looks slightly odd in places, but there are enough "I win" cards to make it potentially ride all the way to the top.
As ever, as long as the core is in place, this deck has certain matches that are really easy, and only a couple of stinkers- RG and GW Tron, U tron, Elves after boarding and some versions of certain BG X decks.
So in the end, I played the deck poorly because of nerves and even the games I had done well on went to time and cost us some wins (it was 3 player constructed modern, it was awesome). Anyway, I did manage one actual match win out of 9 against affinity. Would have had 2 other matches if I didn't mess up with infect lands, so all in all, pretty satisfied. Karn/tron still wrecks my face, I am going to have to think about that, and the new tooth and nail combo is really hard to stop as well.
I played a lot of standard turbo fog. Current standard lacks turbo and cheap fog but I thought modern turbo fog was awesome, but so were all of the other decks so as I tweaked my fog deck it became more pillow fort and then pillow fort leads to Enduring ideal. I don't think I am either a particularly good player or deck builder. Unfortunate since I cam't seem to bring myself to play a tier 1, 1.5 or even solid 2. I really need to feel like I am brewing something, in this case I brewed what you guys already had. So here are my experiences and comments having read every page of this thread.
Suppression Field is such an under valued star. I almost never regret that being my first play. I like to pack it on because it also slows down my most dreaded card Engineered explosives. F'ing hate that card. PW's sac lands. Everything worth doing seems to have an activation cost. And none of it would be worth it at +2, +4, +10 (yea +10, i'll get to that).
Porphyry Nodes I can't figure out how people cut them. I know they can be played around but how is that much different then a W silence. As an early play against many decks it munches mana dorks. Is "Bolt the Bird" no longer a thing. I always think of it as a little pac man munching away and sure they play dorks to be the fodder to save the real threats but if they are playing dorks they are not paying taxes.
Great early play against eldrazi.
I can say that of 2 occasions I had opponents think the interaction between the Nodes and Heliod, God of the Sun was broken.
Speaking of which:
Heliod, God of the Sun How does this get cut. Right now in standard Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is probably the best card. I have faced it in modern. This is so much better. Ours actually blocks and with Greater Auramancy is an indestructible, shrouded creature. Isn't that broken by definition? I don't really care about producing dudes, just man the battlements and charge across an empty battlefield (thanks Porphyry Nodes).
Greater Auramancy, I don't see how that is not on every list. I personally don't think I need the 2 of hard lock. I consider it an ablative shield to cause the opponent to sacrifice resources and tempo to remove an enchantment that is not effecting him in order to hopefully have the resources and tempo to remove the enchantment that is. I only need 1 any way because of my last card.
Copy Enchantment I am clearly alone in thinking this is the second best card in the deck. Because what ever card is working for you, this is a second copy. This is the second Greater Auramancy or Sphere of Safety. Its the perfect card at the perfect time mid game. If you really need another Ghostly prison not another Suppression field or vice versa. Named the wrong card with Runed Halo, get it right the second time. Its the ultimate batman utility belt in our deck. So I can't figure why I am the only one running it. Is it just my inexperience? Maybe 2 is not the right number but how is 0 the right number in this deck. I even tutored one up to double my Form of the Dragon fun and close the game a turn earlier.
I know a lot of people are using Path to exile. I think it is great turn 2 - 5 but not really needed as much after. Really just want it for infect and the like. I decided to go with the idea that I can't be optimal at everything so I am just trying to do the thing I do well, as well as I can do it.
I also tried Stasis Snare but went back to Detention Sphere Oblivion Ring to get rid of those Ratchet Bombs and Engineered explosives that I hate.... A lot!!!!
I hope people are still involved with this deck because I am on this pony for the long haul.
Here is my current deck. I suck at SB so it is mostly a copy . Against tron I just put in Bribery If I get it out early I can win if not no amount of sideboarding was really going to change that.
2 Copy Enchantment
2 Monastery Siege
1 Greater Auramancy
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Suppression Field
4 Runed Halo
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Form of the Dragon
1 Nevermore
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Detention Sphere
1 Dovescape
4 Porphyry Nodes
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Mistveil Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
7 Plains
2 Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Enduring Ideal
3 Stony Silence
3 Nevermore
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Bribery
1 Supreme Verdict
Personally I found the red splash with Blood Moon and Crumble to Dust to be more effective then a blue splash except that blue worked better in the deck as a whole.
Ultimately I decided to write off the Tron match and focus on winning other matches.
I also just thought if you are in R you might try Boros Charm to protect your stuff from every damn thing Tron does to our stuff.
Bribery - get to 5 cc, cast, nick their Ulamog/ whatever, win the game if they don't have a Karn there and then. Problem is the card is there for one match only, unless you fancy trying to resolve it against Nahiri decks or Reanimators. You need to try and race through your deck to get to it, and include some Ghost Quarters too. If you get to it first you will probably win. The post board matchup can get good, but the game 1 matchup is unwinnable.
The rest of the board in the blue splash for tron should be Spreading Seas type effects to go with some Ghost Quarters main, plus Stony Silence and any Rule of Law or Eidolon of Rhetoric effects (they have a lot of cantrips and get slowed by these - when you have the mana to do 3/4 things a turn but have to cast a 1cc spell only it sucks.) You can never stop tron with Nevermore effects and normal thinking.
The red version is actually stronger against Tron game 1 normally, but only because if you run Blood Moon you have a main deck card that can buy time. Crumble to dust is strong game 2, in pillow-fort I use Obliterate and a couple of Karoo lands to help me get there (preferably bouncing a Scry land). Obliterate can steal the odd game 1 win. I run enchantment control/pillowfort as Red, and Ideal as blue, and I bite the bullet and play 2 x bribery, plus Seas and Stonies + Rule of Law in the board too. I also run Starfield main as its the best wincon vs Tron if you do manage to get to a position where it is slowed for whatever reason- a Heliod may be able to win the game, but often a Starfield is enough for one turn.
Confiscate is another blue board card that can nick either a Tron land or a resolved planeswalker like Karn.
I come from turbo fog as well, modern actually. It's better than Enduring Ideal against combat based decks, but it struggles against decks which can attack from other angles. It's a blast to play that though, I even rewrote/revamped the whole primer, which TBH haven't updated since a long time as I haven't been toying with that deck recently.
I know that feel bro, never gonna see me playing Jund.
I always stood for this card. Screws a plethora of things, gains us time to cast EI, gives us white devotion for Nykthos, mistveil plains and heliod, god of the sun love it as well, and it only costs 2 CMC. If you have a reason for not playing 4 copies, it must be a really good one.
Yeah, porphyry nodes is TBH something I haven't toyed around with enough probably. IMO having a 1 for 1 is already good, otherwise people wouldn't be playing path to exile or fatal push. The only issue is intrinsec to nodes itself. As good as it is removing a creature a turn, or a single creature at least, we don't get to choose which one to kill. That sometimes is enough, but other times means we're killing a mana dork, but letting them keep their <insert biggie here>. I'd struggle to say what is overall better, if the Nodes+heliod lock, or packing a couple ensnaring bridges as I do for instance, or just having some conventional removal instead. I believe it's pretty much situational and the results may vary with the most subtle changes. E.G. if the opponent has a death's shadow and a tarmogoyf out, porphyry nodes will kill them in 2 turns if nothing else is played, ensnaring bridge will stop them from attacking if we don't have much cards in hand, and conventional removal will kill only one of them. Now, that's a very simple situation and we're discussing only 5 cards there, we're not even mentioning life points, removal, other enchantments, and we're not even discussing how big are those creatures.
And I didn't mention Heliod yet!
So, sometimes it's better to pack nodes, sometimes other stuff like bridge or conventional, (mostly) instant speed, stuff. It depends on your meta, your taste, your overall strategy and <sadly> your luck at times.
Personally, I left nodes aside because of assemble the legion, but EI list including the Heliod+nodes lock are popular as well.
Which leads to:
This isn't standard, Gideon doesn't see much play here in modern, in fact, if you search it on mtggoldfish for instance there's not a single modern deck using that card. That said, Heliod's main downside isn't that it non-boes with suppression field, but that it does nothing without devotion (he, I think I finally understood religion, there aren't gods without devotion). That said, yes, he is a really good blocker given its indestructibility, sinergises greatly with nodes, and a legit wincon. He's good if you're in a favourable board state.
-Checked, 1 or 2 ought to be played. I play 2 copies not only for the lock, but to have more 2 CMC drops, which is relevant for 1-devotion 2-playing around counterspells 3- filling the mana curve. But one copy is good as well for tempo reasons.
I probably need to test this more. I've always feared having nothing relevant to copy. Also, it doesn't grant devotion.
Yup, relevant against really aggro decks like infect, but otherwise it has a bad sinergy with our taxes. If I wanted to pack some removal of the kind, I'd go for blessed alliance since it doesn't target at first. Remember infect plays stuff like vines of vastwood, apostle's blessing and blossoming defense for precisely path to exile-like removal (and blockers, and etceteras)
I only used stasis snare for stopping emrakul or the likes and instant speed. I believe O-Ring and D-Sphere are better choices than that since they can target more things. If you're struggling with early game creatures though, you can go with journey to nowhere where[/card] as well.
Well, as long as I'm interested in MTG, this will probably be my deck of choice. I Just like this sort of strategy.
As for your list, I'm really willing to try it as whole, doing some slight modifications.
1) cut fetchlands for scrylands because of suppression fields
2) cut 2 islands for more scrylands (scry is relevant for this deck since we lack deck manipulation, tutors, draw or else apart from monastery siege)
3) Cut oblivion ring, go to 25 lands with one more hallowed fountain.
4) I'd change the sb as well, but that depends on your meta.
5) 1 copy enchantment out, 1 greater auramancy in.
6) ???
7) Profit
Personally, I think a single copy of this card is great to have since it is so flexible. Among other uses, it can allow you to set up double Greater Auramancy in a deck with only a single copy and probably even more importantly, double your clock on Form of the Dragon. It's probably not a card you're going to search out very often once you're "going off", but it's a nice play in the mid game before you cast Enduring Ideal.
States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
Idaho State Champ: 2011
States '12: 5th place.
I have long since learned not to disregard more experienced players input.
Couple of points. I am one hundred percent sold on copy enchantment. Particularly instead of a second Greater Auramancy I've also started adding a single indestructibility that allows me to protect a form of the Dragon or anything else of that nature including in RM NC. Slightly more resilient to sweepers.
Another interesting point was your suggestion to run a higher land count. I had started with 26 lands as any good control deck does, but I found myself removing a land at a time. This decks sweet spot is 3 lands. We can obtain a lock with that few. And I am concerned with a land base that is somewhat resilient to land destruction and disruption. I also think that it's Entagling Bridge is the best lock available. I like it better than safety sphere It has great synergy with Monastery siege which enables me to keep my hand clear.
On that note I think it is preferable to run Monastery Siege rather than a dedicated spell that does nothing but recycle your discards.
My biggest concern with Ensnaring Bridge is that it has no coordination with any other win condition other than form of the Dragon. I can't ever seem to get out of my own way, whether I'm running luminarch Ascension , Sigil of the empty throne or Heliod, God of the Sun. I am desperately trying to find a second win con that does not interfere with the Bridge. I have literally been going through every card in the game trying to find something that fits here. Preferable something that is not useless on its own. I think I am stcuk with the God and have to just figure out how to avoid the bridge.
I have been testing more removal and I find it works well in many circumstances, but unfortunately it is best in the circumstances in which we are strong. I think Blessed Alliance might be the answer, but unfortunately there's a glitch in Xmage that prevents me from using it.
I've also been testing a copy of open the Vaults as an alternate way to dump form of the Dragon onto the battlefield after the monastery siege. It is effective but I don't think I ever came up on a game in which it was the reason I won. I think I like it because it gives me piece of mind against sweepers. Still I think It is cvoming out.
The only other chaneg I am contemplating is one copy of indestructibility. Again as a second auramancy replacement. Casting this on your Greater Auramancy is the same as having 2 out and it is flexible to allow me to put it on a form or Phyrexian Unlife or ensnaring bridge.
Here is my current main deck,
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
3 Monastery Siege
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Suppression Field
4 Runed Halo
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Form of the Dragon
2 Nevermore
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Detention Sphere
1 Copy Enchantment
2 Porphyry Nodes
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Indestructibility
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Mistveil Plains
4 Hallowed Fountain
6 Plains
1 Island
2 Flooded Strand
The Scrylands are what helped push RW prisons from deck creation to tier two, there have even been enchantment control lists doing well at SCG type events running 5-6 Scrylands with the second color not used. Every RW Prison list in bigger events not using Blood Moon uses 4 Scrland and 0 fetch, and even Blood Moon lists run both. Scrylands being adopted really helped push the deck from creation to tier two, alongside other new powerful options.
Probably the first lesson people learn when building MTG deck is the power of fetches and how 1 life is a small price to pay, but that lesson simply does apply here- life is vital against faster decks, and the Scry is invaluable in a deck where cards are often brilliant or unusable, or more likely, uncastable in the near future. EI is a bit of a combo finish on top of a prison shell, and combo decks like Ad Nauseam are also full of Scrylands too. I know the Mistveils are CIP tapped, but 4 Scrylands + 2 is not a bad place to be, what you lose on the odd turn you gain in selection and 0 lifeloss.
Gideon's Intervention on the Pillow Fort thread.
Potentially good news for both enchantment archetypes. As I said on that thread, its a shame its about damage prevention rather than activated abilities- if it could stop a planeswalker in play it is more useful than just preventing damage.
As a minimum a one copy for EI main deck should be good.
I took your advice about the scry lands and can see their power. But I have run into a couple of decks that do land disruption and those have become problematic.(blockhouse and Living End decks)
I am going to have to weigh the frequency of theses decks and see if it offsets the advantages of the scrying
Seems like the combo of Sandworm Convergence and Dovescape is notably better than Dovescape and Form of the Dragon. Plus, it lets you cut down on a color if you were going green anyway. I haven't ever had a chance to build any modern decks (broke T.T), but I'd love to build this one, and I really wanna try Convergence in it if I do
I think green offers little to both EI and general Pillow Fort enchantment control builds- if you are trying to control the game there are few to zero worthy green inclusions, cards like Choke are weaker than in Legacy. I think in some peoples' minds green is associated with enchantments due to the Legacy deck Enchantress, so it feels natural to include stuff like Eidolons without it necessarily being right or wrong. Eidolon probably tweaks a match here or there. In reality white is the best board col anyway, and to an extent the deck is pre sideboarded, in that its based upon a bunch of effectively sideboard cards as the prison part of the shell.
You have to ask what is the board for? The answer is that its either to tweak matches here and there or to radically change terrible ones. I prefer the latter, and only run the odd Boseiju type card that increases the number of copies and don't radically alter the way the deck works. Ultimately the decks are white X, and when X is red you get Blood Moon for greedy decks, Boil for Islands, and some Crumble to dust sideboard tech for the hard tron matches. When is U you get Spreading Seas and Bribery for those Tron matches. Green to me does not offer super game changers.
I can only think of really narrow situations in which getting indestructibility to the field is either better than greater auramancy or dovescape. Uncountereable enchantment sweepers aren't really a thing though,
Well, I started at 24, then went up to 26 because I couldn't get to 7 lands to play EI, then went down to 25. But whatever works for you! I don't have much experience vs LD.
It's good, I wouldn't say better than safety sphere because it's pretty much situational. Sometimes you're willing to tax a wide board situation filled with 1/1 tokens and then the sphere is better. Sometimes you want to stop a singleton emrakul, and then bridge is better.
Nevermind Luminarch, sigil or Heliod. Try Assemble the legion! Draw, keep card in hand, attack, discard so they can't attack you, profit!
Peace of mind has been on my 60's for a while because of bridge, probably gonna cut it the day I cut bridge from my deck. Monastery siege isn't really discard but card filtering, it doesn't really help for the bridge lock, other than eventually giving you something you can cast or a land, so you reduce your hand size by casting/dropping that.
@everyone
Gideon's intervention looks like one potential toy for us. I'd play that over nevermore since it grants more flexibility. The only downside is the cost. What else would you cut for it? How many copies? I think 2 of them at least on our 75's won't hurt.
Sandwurm convergence is IMO mostly worse than Form of the dragon. 1. It only helps against flyers, which are the least in the current meta. 2.Less reliable wincon than FOTD, since tokens are vulnerable to removal. 3.Doesn't combo with phyrexian unlife which makes up our best lock in the deck. 4.Not possible to hardcast unless you're playing green or something. Pretty much what @Laredian said, heh.
I only got to play a couple matches in the last weeks. I remember beating naya burn 2-1 with no leyline at all in g1, which I lost, just beaters which got slowed down by ghostly prison, and then he burnt me for the rest. G2 I got double leyline out, and turn 2 chalice of the void at 1. He had no creatures out yet, so he probably saw his goblin guides and friends rot in his hand. Then greater auramancy, runed halo naming eidolon of the great revel, monastery siege, and after a couple turns EI+FOTD FTW. Game 3 no turn 0 leyline, got chalice of the void online on turn 2 as well, so most of his burn became useless. Stopped a goblin guide with oblivion ring, runed halo'ed his eidolon (amazing he found that card on every game), then auramancy, ghostly prison, and EI+FOTD again. GG, WP.
Then I remember playing against a control build, grixis control to be precise. Lost 2-0 against that. Just remember spell snare and spell pierce cost 1 CMC, so you probably have to cast your relevant stuff after your opponent has casted one or a couple of those, or after he's tapped out.
Also, it sucks when your seventh land for EI is an untapped boseiju, who shelters all and you're at 2 or less life. More defense grid for me, less boseiju. haha.
cheers. SST.
The red versions can at least run Moon and post board C T Dust.
Abzan is ok though, their mana base hates Suppression Field and you can slow the board down and interfere with any combos they sneak in if they are a toolbox.