Its just an extra stone rain effect. Side by side, it isn't "as good", but sometimes that extra mana levels your figure of destiny or bolts something, so there is upside.
EDIT: its quite fine with just fetchlands actually.
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There are more articles than I can count on how fetch lands don't dramatically lower or increase your chance of hitting later land drops. In the long run you're looking at changes of 1-3% of missing a land drop turn 5, its miniscule.
Trading that in by making your stone rains cost 2 mana instead of 3 and letting you super easily splash a second color (I'd run a singleton stomping grounds to flash back ancient grudge and the sweeper you want to run is firespout)
Finally, and the biggest and most important reason, is that fetchlands fuel grim lavamancer early, probably the #1 most important reason you need to run at least 7 fetches in any RDW list running him. And there is 0 reason not to run lavamancer in any red list. Even fae, a blue deck, is splashing red for moon and lavamancer, so if we're mono red and have moon, why arent we running the card other monocolored decks are splashing for?
Pros:
Fuels Lavamancer
Free Boom trigger
Instant speed landfall triggers for searing blaze
Manafixing for ancient grudge / firespout
Cons:
-2~3% chance of land drops
paying life (negated by the fact that paying 2 life for 2 fetches lets you shock your opponent with lavamancer one more time, so for the 2 life you pay you get 2 more dmg on your opponent)
So...yeah... >_>;
There are a few things here I wanted to touch up on. First, I am more concerned about not getting to 5 mana because I am not running 24-25 lands. With 7 draw spells, 23 land should be enough to get me there, but thinning things down more makes it rough. So it's not that I am thinning my deck down. It's that I am thinning down an already short mana base.
I probably wouldn't be splashing with Stomping Ground, or anything else like that since I want to have a moon effect on the board pretty much at all times. That stomping ground turning into a plain old mountain doesn't do me much good for a spell like Ancient Grudge, especially when I have access to Shattering Spree.
Lavamancer didn't fit into the Magnivore build. It's not that I don't like him, but there are other cards that work into the strategy better (like Forked Bolt).
I am also in agreeance with the other guys that Boom/Bust isn't exactly a 2 mana Stone Rain. As stated, you need to have 3 land out for the desired effect, so it isn't going to be making any huge differences in most cases, and sometimes could be detrimental if I have to blow up my own mountain. I am still going to try it with 4 fetch lands, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets cut and I go back to all basics and Stone Rain.
Hey,
Firstly I agree that the magnivore buid is the route to go ;), and I would like to know what do you think about using hound of griselbrand as another beater. It survives the fist incineration (pyroclasm, slagstorm,....) and beats for 6 with FS.
Hey,
Firstly I agree that the magnivore buid is the route to go ;), and I would like to know what do you think about using hound of griselbrand as another beater. It survives the fist incineration (pyroclasm, slagstorm,....) and beats for 6 with FS.
He seems good, but what do you take out for him? Maybe it's just me, but I really like the hasty guys in this deck.
@ Greenpoe: I totally missed your post earlier. Not a big fan of Porcelain Legionnaire in this deck, but I think your mention of werewolves is an idea worth some consideration. It probably would have to splash green for Huntmaster of the Fells among other things, as I don't feel reds transform guys are quite good enough alone. Definitely wouldn't be a Magnivore build.
@ zabuza: While I like the double strike of hound, at 4 cmc he is a little too high in the mana curve. He doesn't fit the role of finisher very well, and that is really what we are looking for at 4 cmc and higher.
As for other possible finishers, here is the short list of what I came up with when I was looking at splashing blue:
I am gonna try a Koth-less version. Forked Bolt and Gitaxian Probe are too good in the deck to not have as 4 of, and I keep wanting to fit a 3rd Magus of the Moon in there. Can't bring myself to cut anything besides Koth.
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I was running Chalice in my sideboard for a while, but there aren't a lot of games where I want to put it in. At first it was my deterrent for Storm/Hive Mind, as well as some burn decks, but then I found that it was ineffective against Storm and Hive Mind, so it went out the window.
If anyone playing the deck isn't using Gitaxian Probe, I highly recommend it. I am never sad to see that card, as it's always a free draw and peek at my opponents hand. I can't even tell you how often I am sitting on turn 3 wondering whether or not to play Molten Rain or Blood Moon/Magus. Often peeking at my opponent's hand makes it a clear call of which to cast.
Got some games in with the new build. I gotta admit I hate drawing Magus of the Moon. It dies to my own Pyroclasm and does not really seem to do much of anything when it hits the board. I will probably keep it as a 1 of just to have an extra moon effect, but running more than that is not very useful.
It's also become clear to me that I need some sort of instant speed removal, at least in the board. Getting killed by equipped Inkmoth Nexus makes running only sorceries unappealing. Right now I am looking at Magma Spray and Sudden Shock. Both seem like good options depending on the situation. I am leaning towards Magma Spray, just because its 1 cmc is easier to fit into my overall game plan. Sudden Shock seems really good for taking out Arcbound Ravager or Melira without having to worry about responses as well. Any thoughts on this? Maybe reasons to run one over the other?
I tried taking out magus of the moon because started feeling the same way. don't know if I miss it yet or not. I was okay with 6 moon effects (4 blood moon 2 magus) so lll try it without for a few more rounds then assess it once more.
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:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
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I am pretty much finalized on my deck list. The only real question remains is should I keep the singleton Bonfire of the Damned, or swap it out for something else (like an extra Koth). Here is my current build:
Looks good, I think you should keep the 1 bonfire, you never know right?
Also, why sudden shock in the sideboard? I would actually go for combust instead.
Im on testing time out. My computer needs a new hard drive so I'm on the side line until tommorow.
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I went with Sudden Shock primarily because I can use it against Melira and Affinity, as well as Delver, Martyr, Clique, etc... I needed something that can hit Inkmoth/Blinkmoth Nexus, Mutavault, etc... and Combust can't do it. The main match ups that I would use Combust in is Twin and the UW Restoration control, but I have Torpor Orb for that.
I played a few games with a friend last night. He was playing a combo deck with Through the Breach and Gifts + Unburial Rites. At one point I dropped a 13/13 Magnivore and lol'ed. I thought that was worth mentioning. Deck plays good if I get some early game draw, but the one game when I didn't the deck was rather slow to get going and I got smacked by an Emrakul the turn before I could really get going.
I've been feeling like the 1 of I run is pretty solid and still wouldn't mind seeing a second. He's basically my 5th Magnivore. I really dig the 4/4 mountain that gets to swing the turn you play him. It avoids Wrath effects (not to prevalent in the current meta), anything that says "target nonland" and also gives my opponents an extra target to swing at besides me. I don't often get him up to his ultimate, as I usually win before then. The few times I have though, it's been GG. I feel that when I was running 3 that I was drawing him too often. Now that I only run 1 of him, I never have that problem.
I'll admit I haven't tested this deck a whole lot, but Koth always seems to be awesome.
So here's a question for people who have: when Koth hits play successfully and stays there, is winning an inevitability unless they kill him somehow? Or does his presence on the board NOT guarantee victory?
It usually guarantees him getting killed for my 8 moon variant. I don't appreciate him a whole lot, so I only run two and I use him to bait removal for my real threats, which are the demigods. I'm afraid I don't cotton too much to the magnivore builds. it just doesn't fit my playstyle in the least.
I'll admit I haven't tested this deck a whole lot, but Koth always seems to be awesome.
So here's a question for people who have: when Koth hits play successfully and stays there, is winning an inevitability unless they kill him somehow? Or does his presence on the board NOT guarantee victory?
for me he has been removal bait/fog material. I get really excited if i even get to plus 1 him.
so I'm going to try 2 koths and something else.
good news: got my computer back today so i can get back to playing
bad news: brand new hard drive and I didn't back up so Im down to 0 decks stored ;-(.
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:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
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Not really looking for what you use him as, but whether or not when he sticks is it a situation of "get rid of him or you lose" type of thing. In other words, if he makes it into play, has anyone found that it puts the opponent on a clock? Or can they just play around him while he's out there?
Mostly, either they have superior board position (I run 16 non repeatable spot removal + 4 grim lavamancers) and can easily attack him to nothing, or he eats an oblivion ring or similar. He does function well against blue control, but my deck is already able to do a number on them as is and I'm not worried about that matchup. Truthfully, I've been looking at replacing him as well but haven't found a viable finisher type at that slot that I like.
EDIT: its quite fine with just fetchlands actually.
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There are a few things here I wanted to touch up on. First, I am more concerned about not getting to 5 mana because I am not running 24-25 lands. With 7 draw spells, 23 land should be enough to get me there, but thinning things down more makes it rough. So it's not that I am thinning my deck down. It's that I am thinning down an already short mana base.
I probably wouldn't be splashing with Stomping Ground, or anything else like that since I want to have a moon effect on the board pretty much at all times. That stomping ground turning into a plain old mountain doesn't do me much good for a spell like Ancient Grudge, especially when I have access to Shattering Spree.
Lavamancer didn't fit into the Magnivore build. It's not that I don't like him, but there are other cards that work into the strategy better (like Forked Bolt).
I am also in agreeance with the other guys that Boom/Bust isn't exactly a 2 mana Stone Rain. As stated, you need to have 3 land out for the desired effect, so it isn't going to be making any huge differences in most cases, and sometimes could be detrimental if I have to blow up my own mountain. I am still going to try it with 4 fetch lands, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets cut and I go back to all basics and Stone Rain.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Firstly I agree that the magnivore buid is the route to go ;), and I would like to know what do you think about using hound of griselbrand as another beater. It survives the fist incineration (pyroclasm, slagstorm,....) and beats for 6 with FS.
He seems good, but what do you take out for him? Maybe it's just me, but I really like the hasty guys in this deck.
(Modern)
WDeath and TaxesW
GBDeath CloudGB
RGShamansesRG
(Legacy)
UWArtifactsUW
@ zabuza: While I like the double strike of hound, at 4 cmc he is a little too high in the mana curve. He doesn't fit the role of finisher very well, and that is really what we are looking for at 4 cmc and higher.
As for other possible finishers, here is the short list of what I came up with when I was looking at splashing blue:
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
If anyone playing the deck isn't using Gitaxian Probe, I highly recommend it. I am never sad to see that card, as it's always a free draw and peek at my opponents hand. I can't even tell you how often I am sitting on turn 3 wondering whether or not to play Molten Rain or Blood Moon/Magus. Often peeking at my opponent's hand makes it a clear call of which to cast.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
It's also become clear to me that I need some sort of instant speed removal, at least in the board. Getting killed by equipped Inkmoth Nexus makes running only sorceries unappealing. Right now I am looking at Magma Spray and Sudden Shock. Both seem like good options depending on the situation. I am leaning towards Magma Spray, just because its 1 cmc is easier to fit into my overall game plan. Sudden Shock seems really good for taking out Arcbound Ravager or Melira without having to worry about responses as well. Any thoughts on this? Maybe reasons to run one over the other?
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
4x Magnivore
4x Demigod of Revenge
1x Magus of the Moon
Sorceries: 23
4x Molten Rain
4x Forked Bolt
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Faithless Looting
3x Pyroclasm
2x Flame Slash
1x Stone Rain
1x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Blood Moon
1x Koth of the Hammer
Land: 23
23x Mountain
4x Torpor Orb
3x Shattering Spree
3x Sudden Shock
3x Dragon's Claw
2x Flame Slash
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Also, why sudden shock in the sideboard? I would actually go for combust instead.
Im on testing time out. My computer needs a new hard drive so I'm on the side line until tommorow.
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
What were you thinking of replacing it with?
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Obsidian fireheart
Rakdos pit dragon
I'm probably getting in a restless mood, but sometimes it seems he does more harm then good.
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
So here's a question for people who have: when Koth hits play successfully and stays there, is winning an inevitability unless they kill him somehow? Or does his presence on the board NOT guarantee victory?
(Modern)
WDeath and TaxesW
GBDeath CloudGB
RGShamansesRG
(Legacy)
UWArtifactsUW
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
for me he has been removal bait/fog material. I get really excited if i even get to plus 1 him.
so I'm going to try 2 koths and something else.
good news: got my computer back today so i can get back to playing
bad news: brand new hard drive and I didn't back up so Im down to 0 decks stored ;-(.
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
(Modern)
WDeath and TaxesW
GBDeath CloudGB
RGShamansesRG
(Legacy)
UWArtifactsUW
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Yeah, one day I'll learn that the information stored us more valuable than the machine itself.
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)