I was mostly worried about those direct damage red decks that are all in on Lightning Bolt, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, etc.... I didn't have much defense against red decks that drop their hands that fast and my moon effects don't really shut those decks down. Dragon's Claw helps me keep out of the red zone. The thing about storm is that you typically gain a life for nearly every spell they cast, which makes the storm effect obsolete.
I really haven't had so much issue with those forms of decks. The thorns of amethyst work pretty well on them, too. Honestly, I've even gone with the direct burn approach. Dropping a grim lavamancer and then unloading a hand full of burn following it up with demigod of revenge usually does them in. At worst I'm 50/50, and at best, I'm 65/35 with sligh variants. All the burn and card selection allows me to play defensively until I can wipe them out with my finisher of choice.
I just threw together an Ensnaring Bridge version. The only thing I really don't like about this build is that I am entirely dependent on hitting my opponent in the face with burn. This strategy is crushed by Leyline of Sanctity, which mono red has no real reliable answer for.
True, but I've just playtested some against affinity. I need more, admittedly, but blood moon crushes the manland base and all the spot removal has a bad habit of blunting their initial assault. I stand by my massive spot removal situation. The card selection has been absolutely invaluable. I'm not sure how it would go with an arcbound ravager on the battlefield. as it stands, I've been wiping the floor with everything before it hits.
Edit: I just wiped the floor with affinity again and again and he landed ravagers all over the place. Game 1, you just have last until you can drop the finishers. They'll drop you quick, but if you can kill their attackers with the spot removal package you can survive at low life. Admittedly, galvanic blast can hurt, but it hasn't finished me off too much. They run out of gas well before I do and my finishers end it in a hurry. Post board, shattering spree just ends it.
edit 2: R/G tron is a pain in the behind. I need to playtest it more, but I could only beat it through a combination of 2 thorn of amethyst and 2 magus of the moon after he boarded out his pyroclasms. If I see it that much more, I may start siding chalice of the void at one for his cantrip selection.
bump. I've been testing, and one rogue deck I just can't beat is mono red or red/green land destruction. stone rain and bloodbraid elf is just too damned effective against me, unfortunately, mostly for the + extra card it gets them. If I keep running into these kinds of decks rather than the aggro or control variants I prey upon I may start running artifact acceleration in the form of rakdos signet. At least it's awfully hard to shut that down!
you know, when i first saw this thread's title, I was excited because I thought someone somehow managed to make a moonfolk tribal deck. I clicked and was instantly disappointed =<
But since I'm already here: What do you guys think this sort of deck is impeded by most? What kind of meta would make it a force?
the various versions have their weakness. Mine is really strong against aggro , even affinity, but is having trouble with red/green tron of all things. Not because of emrakul or various big creatures, but because of those darned cantrips and karn. I keep running into that pain in the tookus!
It's rare, but stone rain variants make life hell for me because I try to reach my 5 mana threshold to actually win. If I can't hit it, then I can't win. As much as Dolzero likes koth, I'm constantly disappointed by him. It's almost enough to make me consider shrine of burning rage. However, mine has been exceptionally consistent thus far. It's also really really good against most Blue control variants. As most of them run creatures, I can run the burn plan early on and when they try to protect one, "surprise!, moon time".
So it should be pretty good in a non basic heavy meta that is non storm combo. I just can't beat red storm variants. Thorn of amethyst helps a lot, but it slows me too. Torpor orb has been sort of effective vs. splinter twin, but I haven't tested that one heavily yet.
In a meta with other actual land destruction decks, r/g tron, jund can be difficult (I just can't seem to apply pressure fast enough), and loam variants are hell, actually. They are winnable, so long as you manage to slow them down long enough and can actually draw grave hate. I just tested a best of three match against a real *** tonight. He landed a zombie infestation but I had several moons online. Even with 3 tormod's crypt sided in and 30 cards in, I just couldn't draw one though it would have wiped him out. That's how the cookie crumbles, though.
I have been giving some thoughts to a new(er) list. Pyroclasm, Blood Moon and Molten Rain are all amazing in this format and do serious work for the deck. As I said in a previous post, the mana accellerants have been rather lackluster in my testing, and I have opted to move them out for some more threats. The main thing I wanted was to make sure my threats can survive Pyroclasm, and then it hit me that Vexing Devil seems like a good fit for this deck. I have also been looking at a few other cards for the build, most notably Cunning Sparkmage, Browbeat, Archwing Dragon, Boggart Ram-Gang, Cyclops Gladiator and Shivan Wumpus.
It may be slow, but has anyone thought of a magnifier version of this deck?
Faithless looting
Molten rain
Stone rain
Wild guess
Slagstorm
That's 20 sorceries already.
Magus of the moon
Magnivore
Demigod of revenge
12 creatures
Blood moon
4 enchantments
Koth of the hammer
4 planeswalkers
20 land
EDIT: So I did some testing this morning and I am truly enjoying this deck. so far I played against a bang control deck which I won both games and also a june deck which I won both games. I'm gonna stay away from ritual effects and focus on this. I think you guys should check it out.
I like it! Magnivore was a card I came across while looking at various cards for this deck, but I didn't consider it because I wasn't running very many sorceries. Seems like it could be really good in the right build. I doubt people would expect it coming out of nowhere.
I have 2 comments about your build. First, I feel 20 land is too low if you're trying to curve out at 5 mana. I typically go for 24 lands when trying to hit 5, but you could go less with the card draw. I still probably wouldn't go less than 22-23. Secondly, I would like to see some spot removal in there somewhere, even if it's just Lightning Bolt. Maybe roll with Flame Slash, Arc Trail or Forked Bolt if you want to maximize the sorceries in your deck.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I like it! Magnivore was a card I came across while looking at various cards for this deck, but I didn't consider it because I wasn't running very many sorceries. Seems like it could be really good in the right build. I doubt people would expect it coming out of nowhere.
I have 2 comments about your build. First, I feel 20 land is too low if you're trying to curve out at 5 mana. I typically go for 24 lands when trying to hit 5, but you could go less with the card draw. I still probably wouldn't go less than 22-23. Secondly, I would like to see some spot removal in there somewhere, even if it's just Lightning Bolt. Maybe roll with Flame Slash, Arc Trail or Forked Bolt if you want to maximize the sorceries in your deck.
I have a tendency to go land light, and I was treating this more like an aggro deck than a control deck, I will go 22 land, but that would mean cutting out a sorcery or 2.
as for bonfire, I really REALLLY thought about it and would try it out, my only consideration would be wanting to miracle it more than hard casting.
also I do agree with the spot removal, I had gut shot in the side for spot removal but I dig flame slash more.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
I don't think you need to cut sorceries. At first glance, -1 Koth, -1 Magus of the Moon seems like the most obvious route to go for fitting in 2 extra land. Maybe -1 Stone Rain, -1 Wild Guess and -1 Slagstorm for +3 Flame Slash.
Hmmm, looking at the vore deck, in a control/combo heavy meta, or maybe even a r/g tron meta, it would probably do better than mine does. I still think most aggro decks will probably have their way with you, though. Not nearly enough spot removal for my taste.
that said, I have been itching to use wild guess and this could be an effective version. Personally, I think flamebreak is better than slagstorm most of the time and if you're looking at ridiculously high cc sweepers like bonfire of the damned, I'd much rather run molten disaster myself.
Hmmm, looking at the vore deck, in a control/combo heavy meta, or maybe even a r/g tron meta, it would probably do better than mine does. I still think most aggro decks will probably have their way with you, though. Not nearly enough spot removal for my taste.
that said, I have been itching to use wild guess and this could be an effective version. Personally, I think flamebreak is better than slagstorm most of the time and if you're looking at ridiculously high cc sweepers like bonfire of the damned, I'd much rather run molten disaster myself.
but.....but it's bonfire. and honestly I haven't had a single decent game against torn decks. the 2 I played I landed a moon effect t3 and they leave the game.
and as for the flame break vs. slagstorm. the reason i'm sticking with slag storm is a few reasons, flying being one of them. flame break hits creatures without flying slag storm hits all.
I haven't had so much luck. I've run into scads of Blue black, Blue White, blue red, and Red/Green Tron. I can curbstomp the first three, but Red/Green just seems to always draw nutty against me or just ignores the darned moons I drop.
I guess you make a valid point about slagstorm, but I don't play this version, at least not yet. I am much better prepared against any creature onslaught (something like 16 + removal main in addition to 4 grim lavamancers)
I totally forgot about Flamebreak not hitting fliers. Def go with either Bonfire or Slagstorm (or Pyroclasm if you want to come in a turn sooner, which is good vs Robots). I really don't see the deck having a problem with swarming creatures with as many sweepers as Dukk is running. Seems legit to me.
I notice a strong presence of artifact hate in the sideboard. How does Shattering Spree sound to you?
I like smelt at instant speed to force combat tricks on swords and crap like that. Spree is good so I will try it. The reason I went with granulate is....well....I just want to destroy all the artifacts. It's a card that goes unnoticed big time. It's like affinity wrath it seems narrow, but every red deck I've ever played I always have 1-2 in the side.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
I would go Shattering Spree all the way. Against Robots you might not even make it to turn 4 to cast Shatterstorm. Shattering Spree can be cast on turn 2 to hit 2 artifacts, turn 3 to hit 3 artifacts, etc....
I saw the first list, why play Vexing Devil in here? It completely goes against the gameplan of the deck. The only deck that's interested in any variation of lava spike is a burn heavy RDW Deck. That's all devil will ever be in here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
4x Faithless Looting
4x Forked Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Molten Rain
4x Blood Moon
Land (23)
4x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
15x Mountain
3x Ensnaring Bridge
Planeswalker (3)
3x Koth of the Hammer
Instant (6)
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Incinerate
3x Grim Lavamancer
2x Magus of the Moon
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Edit: I just wiped the floor with affinity again and again and he landed ravagers all over the place. Game 1, you just have last until you can drop the finishers. They'll drop you quick, but if you can kill their attackers with the spot removal package you can survive at low life. Admittedly, galvanic blast can hurt, but it hasn't finished me off too much. They run out of gas well before I do and my finishers end it in a hurry. Post board, shattering spree just ends it.
edit 2: R/G tron is a pain in the behind. I need to playtest it more, but I could only beat it through a combination of 2 thorn of amethyst and 2 magus of the moon after he boarded out his pyroclasms. If I see it that much more, I may start siding chalice of the void at one for his cantrip selection.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
But since I'm already here: What do you guys think this sort of deck is impeded by most? What kind of meta would make it a force?
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.
It's rare, but stone rain variants make life hell for me because I try to reach my 5 mana threshold to actually win. If I can't hit it, then I can't win. As much as Dolzero likes koth, I'm constantly disappointed by him. It's almost enough to make me consider shrine of burning rage. However, mine has been exceptionally consistent thus far. It's also really really good against most Blue control variants. As most of them run creatures, I can run the burn plan early on and when they try to protect one, "surprise!, moon time".
So it should be pretty good in a non basic heavy meta that is non storm combo. I just can't beat red storm variants. Thorn of amethyst helps a lot, but it slows me too. Torpor orb has been sort of effective vs. splinter twin, but I haven't tested that one heavily yet.
In a meta with other actual land destruction decks, r/g tron, jund can be difficult (I just can't seem to apply pressure fast enough), and loam variants are hell, actually. They are winnable, so long as you manage to slow them down long enough and can actually draw grave hate. I just tested a best of three match against a real *** tonight. He landed a zombie infestation but I had several moons online. Even with 3 tormod's crypt sided in and 30 cards in, I just couldn't draw one though it would have wiped him out. That's how the cookie crumbles, though.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Anyway, here is my latest build for testing:
4x Vexing Devil
4x Demigod of Revenge
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Magus of the Moon
Enchantments: 4
4x Blood Moon
Planeswalkers: 3
3x Koth of the Hammer
4x Faithless Looting
4x Molten Rain
3x Pyroclasm
Instants: 6
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Magma Jet
Land: 24
24x Mountain
4x Shattering Spree
4x Dragon's Claw
4x Torpor Orb
3x Chalice of the Void
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Faithless looting
Molten rain
Stone rain
Wild guess
Slagstorm
That's 20 sorceries already.
Magus of the moon
Magnivore
Demigod of revenge
12 creatures
Blood moon
4 enchantments
Koth of the hammer
4 planeswalkers
20 land
EDIT: So I did some testing this morning and I am truly enjoying this deck. so far I played against a bang control deck which I won both games and also a june deck which I won both games. I'm gonna stay away from ritual effects and focus on this. I think you guys should check it out.
4 Wild Guess
4 Stone Rain
4 Molten Rain
4 Slagstorm
4 Magnivore
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Koth of the Hammer
20 Mountain
2 Smelt
3 Gut Shot
4 Leyline of Punishment
4 Trinisphere
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
I have 2 comments about your build. First, I feel 20 land is too low if you're trying to curve out at 5 mana. I typically go for 24 lands when trying to hit 5, but you could go less with the card draw. I still probably wouldn't go less than 22-23. Secondly, I would like to see some spot removal in there somewhere, even if it's just Lightning Bolt. Maybe roll with Flame Slash, Arc Trail or Forked Bolt if you want to maximize the sorceries in your deck.
Additionally, how do you feel about Bonfire of the Damned (or Flamebreak) over Slagstorm?
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
I have a tendency to go land light, and I was treating this more like an aggro deck than a control deck, I will go 22 land, but that would mean cutting out a sorcery or 2.
as for bonfire, I really REALLLY thought about it and would try it out, my only consideration would be wanting to miracle it more than hard casting.
also I do agree with the spot removal, I had gut shot in the side for spot removal but I dig flame slash more.
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
that said, I have been itching to use wild guess and this could be an effective version. Personally, I think flamebreak is better than slagstorm most of the time and if you're looking at ridiculously high cc sweepers like bonfire of the damned, I'd much rather run molten disaster myself.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
but.....but it's bonfire. and honestly I haven't had a single decent game against torn decks. the 2 I played I landed a moon effect t3 and they leave the game.
and as for the flame break vs. slagstorm. the reason i'm sticking with slag storm is a few reasons, flying being one of them. flame break hits creatures without flying slag storm hits all.
3 Wild Guess
3 Stone Rain
3 Molten Rain
3 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Flame Slash
2 Slagstorm
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Demigod of Revenge
3 Blood Moon
3 Koth of the Hammer
22 Mountain
2 Granulate
2 Smelt
4 Leyline of Punishment
4 Trinisphere
3 Combust
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
I guess you make a valid point about slagstorm, but I don't play this version, at least not yet. I am much better prepared against any creature onslaught (something like 16 + removal main in addition to 4 grim lavamancers)
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I notice a strong presence of artifact hate in the sideboard. How does Shattering Spree sound to you?
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
EDIT: Here is my take on it:
4x Demigod of Revenge
4x Magnivore
3x Magus of the Moon
Other Permanents: 7
4x Blood Moon
3x Koth of the Hammer
Sorceries: 19
4x Faithless Looting
4x Molten Rain
3x Forked Bolt
3x Wild Guess
3x Pyroclasm
2x Stone Rain
23x Mountain
4x Torpor Orb
4x Shattering Spree
4x Dragon's Claw
3x Chalice of the Void
EDIT 2: Apparently I cannot add today.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Good call. Will go 4-2
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
I thought you replaced looting with forked bolt. I was like," you rebel you".
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
Also, I updated the OP, which is now a PRIMER!!!
EDIT: This was my 1337th post!
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF