Voice of Resurgence is an interesting card to save us from board wipes, but don't leave home without Treetop Village for the same reason, with worship on the board and mana kept up ot can save you the game a lot of times.
How does this look? I'll be playtesting this weekend I hope after final exams are over. Thanks for such a great archetype guys!!!! One problem I see is using sword of fire and ice as it give pro blue. It seems to contradict with spectral flight (have not bought yet for this reason). Thanks again guys.
I think 4 swords, 2 elspeth and spectrals is too much. An obvious thing you could do is equipment tutor 2 swords, making a slot for invisible stalker main. I personally think one elspeth max plus 4 spectrals and perhaps 2 rancor is enough, with 4 pridemage main, and if u can crowbar the stalkers in then perhaps keen sense-curiosity. Either way I would be hesitant about the number of buffing cards. Counters in the side are ok, but dissipate is dodgy- the board should have real hosers like torpor orb, creeping corrosion etc in somewhere as well as utility. Ps I would think about bant charm and the selesnya charms too.
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I haven't playtested yet so there could be some glaring holes in this list (rebuilt from scratch to avoid preexisting notions holding me back). A new member of my playgroup has a love affair with infect so I'm adding melira, sylvok outcast as protection from her. I'm really unsure about only having a single elspeth, knight errant, seems unlikely to draw her etc. Anything else I need to alter or add?
I haven't playtested yet so there could be some glaring holes in this list (rebuilt from scratch to avoid preexisting notions holding me back). A new member of my playgroup has a love affair with infect so I'm adding melira, sylvok outcast as protection from her. I'm really unsure about only having a single elspeth, knight errant, seems unlikely to draw her etc. Anything else I need to alter or add?
looks closer to it - the ratio of buffers to men is important
- re boarding -spellskite is good vs infect bugx and twin (not kiki though), and vs scapeshift et al some mindcensors may work well- but you do have counters. There are lots of graveyard decks out there - even post eggs- so perhaps rest in peace vs jund, reanimator, kotr bant or gifts. I would use two different swords and a gift- effectively 3 swords- maybe a sigurda main over the gift. I would probably drop a sigurda or elspeth from the board for the rest in peaces. But that is all meta dependent.
An interesting main deck card that can surprise is psionic blast.
And detention sphere can be great vs tokens if you expect any
dont worry about 1 elspeth- view her as one of several buffers, not as a one of. She can be devastating against grindy decks but she is not much cop vs any combo decks. Spectral and rancor are in a way often much better. Generally the slower the meta the more the bigger buffers work.
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I apologize if this not the place for this, but I have been having some real success lately with my GW control cousin of this deck. The game plays slower, but the resilience of the win conditions makes it unnecessary to rush in with too many threats.
I have seen on this thread a couple time where Predator Ooze is discouraged, but in my games I have found it to be amazing. It grows slowly, to be sure, but it is really tough to get rid of (not to mention being a great chump blocker on land).
Wall of Roots: This card just serves so many roles here, and can survive some of the common mana-dork killers.
Day of Judgment: This can be so nice with Thrun in play and enough mana.
It plays very differently than one with more creatures, but has been so much more successful for me. More beaters are great, and so are swords, but I have found that running more control keeps what you have swinging better.
It kicks face from my experience. I don't really miss blue tbh, this list moves fast enough that you don't usually let control play the permission game.
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Find something, Live For it, Fight for it, Die for it. Then it might get passed on the the next generation.
I have actually found dropping blue to be somewhat liberating. My choices seemed much clearer to me, and I think the deck is stronger as a result. I haven't even changed that list really at all, except to drop thrun to two for a 4th BoP, and I solidified a mana base. I could see dropping the Unflinching Courages like you have. They've been largely redundant, for me. Swords are definitely a stronger and usually more relevant choice.
I totally agree Raalic. Unflinching courage is a good card for sure but spirit mantle and swords seem much better. I really like fetching stomping grounds to fuel wolf run though, it has won me a number of games in my play group. I'm not really sure which swords to carry mb though... Thoughts?
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Find something, Live For it, Fight for it, Die for it. Then it might get passed on the the next generation.
I like sigarda, host of herson. It's rare that we need her tbh though. Against monoblack control the edict effects kill regeneration so she helps there. However something that costs 5 is hard with our mana dorks not living very long. It's honestly a meta thing.
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I like sigarda, host of herson. It's rare that we need her tbh though. Against monoblack control the edict effects kill regeneration so she helps there. However something that costs 5 is hard with our mana dorks not living very long. It's honestly a meta thing.
Thanks for the reply.
I was also wondering if we could go the "blade" route with invisible stalker's and swords and stuff. Just don't have the paper worship card yet and I really don't pay to play for online with cockatrice out of the question.
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I'd maybe consider running a single Sigarda in my sideboard, but I have found that running 3 or so manlands and 4 VoR is enough not to care about edict effects. This deck is so under-the-radar that it's hilarious, to me. As long as it's a fringe deck, it'll be pretty successful (oxmoron?). So let's keep it on the DL.
So I just played my friends monoblack and got nailed by geth's verdict. A lot. Sigarda, host of herons definitely has a 2 of place in my sideboard from now on. I've been experimenting with enhanced red splash in order to get out of losing life when worship[/c0 and thrun, the last troll are out. Lightning helix is great for this. I dont kill with it, I just wait until I need an out. I have also debated madcap skills. Thoughts?
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I thought I posted this a few days ago but it looked like it did not post.
I lent out a bant version of this deck at a recent 28 player tournament. It went 4-1, apparently losing to a play mistake. I did not see any of the matches, though. I believe it lost to a red goblin deck. The field was pretty full of aggro (RDW) and combo (twins/dredge/reanimator) and the odd midrange eg jund and token decks.
I never played blue for counters- I played it for sifting, geist, spectral flight and minamo, the last of which was really important in several matchups.
I also use two psionic blasts- they give real reach and in a deck where worship is run its downside is not that important. Its certainly a surprise card has always been really useful.
I do run a a Sigurda, which has been surprisingly good. Flying is important, and in testing it stopped annihilate effects from cheated emrakuls as well as all is dust. I don't think the effect is strong enough for a sideboard slots- these should be used for high impact cards that significantly neuter specific enemy decks or drastically alter gameplans. But it is maindeckable to me.
Do we think he has a home here? I'm gonna attempt to use him and trolls 7-10 with a few maindeck worships and see how this goes.
For the record I'm still very wary of dropping counterspells from the deck though. I'm almost tempted to use Mana Tithe
Do we think he has a home here? I'm gonna attempt to use him and trolls 7-10 with a few maindeck worships and see how this goes.
For the record I'm still very wary of dropping counterspells from the deck though. I'm almost tempted to use Mana Tithe
This is the one deck where I think Witchstalker may find a home in a place other than sideboards. I don't care so much about the +1/+1 clause, though it will prove circumstantially useful. What I do care about is the 3/3 hexproof body for 3. This is the only guy we have who's resilient to pyroclasm that we can drop on turn 2. Troll Ascetic (and in the bant lists, Geist) will frequently eat pyroclasms on that key turn, and you have to worry about keeping mana up for it or for combat trades.
I apologize if this not the place for this, but I have been having some real success lately with my GW control cousin of this deck. The game plays slower, but the resilience of the win conditions makes it unnecessary to rush in with too many threats.
I have seen on this thread a couple time where Predator Ooze is discouraged, but in my games I have found it to be amazing. It grows slowly, to be sure, but it is really tough to get rid of (not to mention being a great chump blocker on land).
Wall of Roots: This card just serves so many roles here, and can survive some of the common mana-dork killers.
Day of Judgment: This can be so nice with Thrun in play and enough mana.
It plays very differently than one with more creatures, but has been so much more successful for me. More beaters are great, and so are swords, but I have found that running more control keeps what you have swinging better.
Love this list, have been trying it now with the following changes:
So, I've been digging around the Uxx and Ux threads for about a year and haven't found my deck. I've moved over to Bant now and am really liking this deck. I've also been trying to brew some sort of Bant flash etb control deck because the mana dorks are the only things that allow blue to power out the hard counters.
Anyway, I love this deck concept and am wondering which matchups are bad for it and causing it to seemingly not do well in larger scale play.
Here's my list right now, continuing off of the Ooze Worship idea that DrWorm proposed a few pages back. It has been doing very well. As DrWorm pointed out, no it does not run as many creatures or beat as hard as fast, but the consistency is much stronger, since the win conditions are very powerful. I've made some modifications.
The choice in Troll Worship is always between good enchantments or Swords, and I went with the Swords package because I believe it synergizes better with Elspeth's soldier tokens and generally is stronger later in the game, which is more what this variant aims for. It also makes hard-to-kill creatures even more difficult to deal with because of the color protection. Auras are good because the benefit is immediate, but Swords can stick around in the event of death, work better on tokens, and are better later in the game.
I have not found any cards to be underwhelming. I would say the MVP of the deck right now is Predator Ooze.
My only little critique is that I would not bother with Emeria lands just because you run the risk of getting them when playing them might slow you down. They have never panned out for me, outside of EDH, so I never mess with them. In their place you might try 2-3 Horizon Canopy. Also, singletons of Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers and Eiganjo Castle can't hurt either.
I had noticed the same with Emeria, and yes it sometimes slows down a turn 3 Ooze, but later in the game I get it online rather frequently and it works pretty well. I could try just running Horizon Canopy in its place though, that would be nice.
Have you any other suggestions on spells or creatures to include? I tried a variant that used Knight of the Holy Nimbus and he did pretty well interacting with Day of Judgment, but late game without a Sword or something he's rather weak. Also considered Stonehewer Giant.
I had noticed the same with Emeria, and yes it sometimes slows down a turn 3 Ooze, but later in the game I get it online rather frequently and it works pretty well. I could try just running Horizon Canopy in its place though, that would be nice.
Have you any other suggestions on spells or creatures to include? I tried a variant that used Knight of the Holy Nimbus and he did pretty well interacting with Day of Judgment, but late game without a Sword or something he's rather weak. Also considered Stonehewer Giant.
Ill be honest, I have two other decks that I am testing more avidly than this one, so I don't have anything in particular. I can tell you what I have been telling anyone that is running green, and that is to try out Scavenging Ooze. I don't think it will be right for all decks, but it is so easy to splash that it is well worth a test.
Voice of Resurgence is an interesting card to save us from board wipes, but don't leave home without Treetop Village for the same reason, with worship on the board and mana kept up ot can save you the game a lot of times.
I think 4 swords, 2 elspeth and spectrals is too much. An obvious thing you could do is equipment tutor 2 swords, making a slot for invisible stalker main. I personally think one elspeth max plus 4 spectrals and perhaps 2 rancor is enough, with 4 pridemage main, and if u can crowbar the stalkers in then perhaps keen sense-curiosity. Either way I would be hesitant about the number of buffing cards. Counters in the side are ok, but dissipate is dodgy- the board should have real hosers like torpor orb, creeping corrosion etc in somewhere as well as utility. Ps I would think about bant charm and the selesnya charms too.
2x Breeding Pool
1x Celestial Colonnade
5x Forest
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Temple Garden
1x Treetop Village
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Sword of War and Peace
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Invisible Stalker
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Thrun, the Last Troll
4x Troll Ascetic
2x qasali pridemage
2x Worship
2x Mana Leak
2x Spell Pierce
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
With a unfinished sideboard of:
2x Corrosion
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Spell Pierce
2x Torpor Orb
2x Worship
I haven't playtested yet so there could be some glaring holes in this list (rebuilt from scratch to avoid preexisting notions holding me back). A new member of my playgroup has a love affair with infect so I'm adding melira, sylvok outcast as protection from her. I'm really unsure about only having a single elspeth, knight errant, seems unlikely to draw her etc. Anything else I need to alter or add?
looks closer to it - the ratio of buffers to men is important
- re boarding -spellskite is good vs infect bugx and twin (not kiki though), and vs scapeshift et al some mindcensors may work well- but you do have counters. There are lots of graveyard decks out there - even post eggs- so perhaps rest in peace vs jund, reanimator, kotr bant or gifts. I would use two different swords and a gift- effectively 3 swords- maybe a sigurda main over the gift. I would probably drop a sigurda or elspeth from the board for the rest in peaces. But that is all meta dependent.
An interesting main deck card that can surprise is psionic blast.
And detention sphere can be great vs tokens if you expect any
dont worry about 1 elspeth- view her as one of several buffers, not as a one of. She can be devastating against grindy decks but she is not much cop vs any combo decks. Spectral and rancor are in a way often much better. Generally the slower the meta the more the bigger buffers work.
4 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Predator Ooze
4 Wall of Roots
4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Spellskite
Other Spells 18
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Worship
4 Path to Exile
2 Rebuff the Wicked
4 Day of Judgment
6 Forest
7 Plains
4 Temple Garden
3 Emeria, The Sky Ruin
4 Treetop Village
15 TBD
I have seen on this thread a couple time where Predator Ooze is discouraged, but in my games I have found it to be amazing. It grows slowly, to be sure, but it is really tough to get rid of (not to mention being a great chump blocker on land).
Wall of Roots: This card just serves so many roles here, and can survive some of the common mana-dork killers.
Day of Judgment: This can be so nice with Thrun in play and enough mana.
It plays very differently than one with more creatures, but has been so much more successful for me. More beaters are great, and so are swords, but I have found that running more control keeps what you have swinging better.
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4 Noble Hierarch
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Rhox Warmonk
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Voice of Resurgence
Spells (19):
3 Rancor
3 Spirit Mantle
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Spell Pierce
4 Path to Exile
3 Worship
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Treetop Village
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Razorverge Thicket
3 Marsh Flats
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Torpor Orb
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Stony Silence
3 Scavenging Ooze
*EDIT* list is current
CG
4x Arid Mesa
5x Forest
2x Kessig Wolf Run
3x Plains
3x Razorverge Thicket
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Stomping Ground
1x Tectonic Edge
3x Temple Garden
1x Treetop Village
1x Day of Judgment
1x Steelshaper's Gift
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Thrun, the Last Troll
4x Troll Ascetic
4x Voice of Resurgence
3x Rancor
3x Spirit Mantle
3x Worship
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of War and Peace
3x Path to Exile
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Day of Judgment
3x Great Sable Stag
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Obstinate Baloth
1x Path to Exile
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
2x Torpor Orb
1x Worship
2x Unflinching Courage
It kicks face from my experience. I don't really miss blue tbh, this list moves fast enough that you don't usually let control play the permission game.
CG
Thanks for the reply.
I was also wondering if we could go the "blade" route with invisible stalker's and swords and stuff. Just don't have the paper worship card yet and I really don't pay to play for online with cockatrice out of the question.
CG
I lent out a bant version of this deck at a recent 28 player tournament. It went 4-1, apparently losing to a play mistake. I did not see any of the matches, though. I believe it lost to a red goblin deck. The field was pretty full of aggro (RDW) and combo (twins/dredge/reanimator) and the odd midrange eg jund and token decks.
I never played blue for counters- I played it for sifting, geist, spectral flight and minamo, the last of which was really important in several matchups.
I also use two psionic blasts- they give real reach and in a deck where worship is run its downside is not that important. Its certainly a surprise card has always been really useful.
I do run a a Sigurda, which has been surprisingly good. Flying is important, and in testing it stopped annihilate effects from cheated emrakuls as well as all is dust. I don't think the effect is strong enough for a sideboard slots- these should be used for high impact cards that significantly neuter specific enemy decks or drastically alter gameplans. But it is maindeckable to me.
Witchstalker {pic linked}
Do we think he has a home here? I'm gonna attempt to use him and trolls 7-10 with a few maindeck worships and see how this goes.
For the record I'm still very wary of dropping counterspells from the deck though. I'm almost tempted to use Mana Tithe
Maybe something like this:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Witchstalker
4 Troll Ascetic
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
Spells (15):
4 Path to Exile
4 Rancor
4 Spirit Mantle
2 Worship
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Temple Garden
2 Treetop Village
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Plains
3 Forest
4 Mana Tithe
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Skylasher
3 Torpor Orb
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Worship
Draft My Cube!
This is the one deck where I think Witchstalker may find a home in a place other than sideboards. I don't care so much about the +1/+1 clause, though it will prove circumstantially useful. What I do care about is the 3/3 hexproof body for 3. This is the only guy we have who's resilient to pyroclasm that we can drop on turn 2. Troll Ascetic (and in the bant lists, Geist) will frequently eat pyroclasms on that key turn, and you have to worry about keeping mana up for it or for combat trades.
CG
Love this list, have been trying it now with the following changes:
-2 Oblivion Ring
-2 Rebuff the Wicked
-1 Worship
+1 Steelshaper's Gift
+2 Sword of Fire and Ice
+2 Sword of War and Peace
Enjoying it. I keep more control in the sideboard if needed, but the creatures are so resilient, and the swords so strong.
EDIT: A consideration: Angelic Destiny
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Anyway, I love this deck concept and am wondering which matchups are bad for it and causing it to seemingly not do well in larger scale play.
Namely I've added a singleton Ulvenwald Tracker, Qasali Pridemage, Batterskull, and dropped a Sword of War and Peace. Batterskull is very strong with Steelshaper's Gift, and later game is very difficult to deal with, especially on an Ooze or Troll. The Ulvenwalk Tracker is beastly with Thrun and ridiculous with Predator Ooze as he triggers his counter-adding ability. Having an easy source of creature destruction aside from Day of Judgment is very good, and Emeria ensures he can come back after board wipes to start fights.
The choice in Troll Worship is always between good enchantments or Swords, and I went with the Swords package because I believe it synergizes better with Elspeth's soldier tokens and generally is stronger later in the game, which is more what this variant aims for. It also makes hard-to-kill creatures even more difficult to deal with because of the color protection. Auras are good because the benefit is immediate, but Swords can stick around in the event of death, work better on tokens, and are better later in the game.
I have not found any cards to be underwhelming. I would say the MVP of the deck right now is Predator Ooze.
7 Plains
4 Temple Garden
4 Treetop Village
6 Forest
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Creatures:
4 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Predator Ooze
4 Wall of Roots
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Worship
4 Path to Exile
4 Day of Judgment
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Batterskull
1 Worship
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Krosan Grip
2 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Spellskite
2 Privileged Position
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Kataki, War's Wage
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Have you any other suggestions on spells or creatures to include? I tried a variant that used Knight of the Holy Nimbus and he did pretty well interacting with Day of Judgment, but late game without a Sword or something he's rather weak. Also considered Stonehewer Giant.
Ill be honest, I have two other decks that I am testing more avidly than this one, so I don't have anything in particular. I can tell you what I have been telling anyone that is running green, and that is to try out Scavenging Ooze. I don't think it will be right for all decks, but it is so easy to splash that it is well worth a test.
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