Yes, it is, I've never used his ability, but I think that at least 6 lords are necessary...
BTW I'll test the deck the next Wednesday and I'll let you know
So for last week my LGS didn't have the last 2 Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord's I needed, so I swapped them out for 2 Chancellor of The Dross, which worked out really well against burn, and also functioned as a good bomb for Sorin to drop on turn 3.
Hey not alot of talk about side boards in the recent posts, any advice on what to run vs control matches or board wipes? I run a BR list with vial and sorin, I'll post a list later when I get time. Good to find some other vampire players I know the deck isn't tier 1 but nocturnus is just a bomb I love playing him
Against Control decks in general, hand hate (IoK/Thoughtseize) will always shine. However, don't get too carried away with hand hate as we need to be placing creatures on the board as rapidly as possible.
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This will help your board wipe problem, but you really need to learn to not overextend. A good rule of thumb is only to have 2 vamps out against a control deck, but dont count your blooghasts. So 2 zealots and a bloodghast is fine.
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Also sorin does some heavy lifting here bc of his ability to cheat vamps into play as well as pump up a little vamp every time by 1 and give him lifelink. That clock starts speeding up real quick, and Ive had control players WRATH my lone zealot with sorin counters. VALUE.
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Vial, sorin all make counter/control decks easier to deal with, but it can also be a trap. If you place too many vamps out oo fast you'll get blown out and wont be able to recover. So do what you can to get your sorin to stick and let him do the heavy lifting.
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Also if you run stormkirk captain & pushes, those should go out for hand hate and whatever else you might have. I leave noc in bc he can swing the game so quick, 1 turn might be all you need.
Thanks Nocturnus!
Currently I only run Duress as a 4 of sideboard because well I sunk all my money into the main deck. How much of an upgrade is IoK over duress?
I think I want to have stromkirk condemned in the main too for bloodghast discard goodness just not sure if that would overload the two drop slot
Yes the 2 drop slot is always a little full in vamps.
I like condemned but personally I would only run him if you wanted to run a madness vairant. Aka asylum visitor or something like Oathsworn vampire to get full benefit out of the discard. 4 bloodghasts isnt really enough.
In addition, I would also throw in Gorger to get those crazy explosive turns. Of course that changes the deck but with vamps, I believe you HAVE to have synergy.
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In terms of IOK over duress, in the control matchup, Duress hits everything basically, however in Modern ( and sideboards in general) you want options. Usually its better to pick a GOOD option that hits a lot of different decks than a GREAT option that only hits a couple.
IOK will always be useful against every deck, unless they dont run 3CMC or lower cards...?
You can get by with it if you only use it in control and combo matchups but Its worth the investment. If you need MORE reach that IOK offers and still want to everything, I would run thoughtseize. Naturally you'll want to make sure you have a little life gain to balance. Even a 1/1 lifelink can outrace a lot of decks when combined with the right lord.
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In terms of deck optimizing, I'll just give you my feelings based on what you posted. Run whatever you like, these are just my initial feelings.
4x guul draaz vampire = best case scenario its pretty good, worst case its pretty bad. This is a card to judge on the worst case. If you want evasion, vampire cutthroat isnt bad. I personally like Vampire of the Dire Moon, Indulgent Aristocrat & Knight of the Ebon Legion.
2x vicious conquistador = not a bad card, but I think the other 3 cards above are just better most of the time.
4x dusk Legion zealot = keeps the deck moving, important card
4x cordial Vampire = makes vamps a modern threat
4x bloodghast = best vamp ever?
3x stromkirk captain = since you committed 10 cards in your mana base to run him, Id run 4
3x vampire nocturnus = 4 isnt too many with vials and sorin
3x vampire nighthawk = I love this card but hes just too slow for this style of deck, if you want the same effect, run Vampire of the Dire moon or gifted aetherborn. (VotDM is one of our best cards imo)
3x sorin imperious bloodlord = One of the key pieces that makes vamps a real threat, try to get that 4th.
4x tragic slip = make fatal push ASAP, 9/10 times its a pure upgrade
4x aether vial = great card
Im assuming these are because of your budget which is fine. You'll run into plays where you have 2 DSs in your hand and itll suck but you have to do what you have to do. Also, you dont need 22 lands to play this deck, Try 20. Its better to get stuck on 3 lands then get flooded. You have vial and sorin.
I would try to find 4-7 of the cheapest swamp sac lands I could find. I think marsh flats is the cheapest atm.
Im sure you know cavern of souls is the way to go, but sadly its pretty pricey.
Overall the deck looks pretty good. Try tweaking the numbers around a bit, remember you want to play as many of your BEST cards as possible.
I know, it's basically a necropost but what is everyone's thoughts on the new toys we got in M21 and Zendikar Rising? The new Nighthawk seems like a really dangerous toy especially with how most decks is guaranteed to have at least 3 card types in the graveyard.
i think is fine, most of the time is a 4/3 flying deathtouch lifelink,unfortunately is in bolt range and for a 3 CMC is not great, again i think that gifted aetherborn is a better option, anyway i need to test it
what do you think about Nullpriest of Oblivion ?, early game can attack and race late game can bring back good creatures, maybe is too mana intensive idk
Not a necro I think most of us were waiting for this Zendikar set to see of any fun vamps on the horizon.
SO far I havent seen anything that is modern playable.
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"what do you think about Nullpriest of Oblivion?"
The one downside of the Kicker mechanic is that its anti synergistic with vial and Sorin.
Nullpriest of Oblivion is cool, but if you can ever get to 6 mana in vamps, you're probably not going to win anyway.
On top of that, we dont have super scary creatures to bring back. A Nocturnus is cool but other than that I dont see this being value town.
This card strikes me as great for Commander tho, where the game is slower with scarier creatures.
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However, this card does make me think about Morophon the boundless.
Sorin can get him out turn 3, and null priest can bring him back later.
This seems more like kitchen table magic now, but maybe theres something here.
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New drana is cool, but 5 mana, no evasion, takes a turn to swing before doing anything...
With sorin maybe shes better, but cards that rely on other cards to be useful usually arent. (Unless its a backbreaking effect)
The 5 drops I think that are good for vial/sorin vamps would be bloodwitch and blood baron since they have great evasion.
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The new nighthawk has potential but I think he would be the finisher.
Id imagine a weenie vamps deck, with the new nighthawk as the finisher, with IOKs and Thoughtseize to eliminate threats and fill the opponent's graveyard.
Ex: 4/3 Flying, Lifelink, Deathtouch makes racing an absolute Nightmare for the opponent.
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The Nighthawk is slow, but if you build a hand hate, control style of deck I think he would shine.
Part of me wonders what Jund would think of this card...
how do you feel about these cards?: vampire nocturnus? i always see it as a great card but not constant +2/+1 and evasion is amazing but about 50% of the time ( vial plus lands ) is just a 3/3 champion of the dusk?even at 5 cmc with sorin can be very strong, be able to play it and draw an average of 2 cards is great, is worth a slot even a 5 cmc ? aether vial? considering you can't cast sorin,and late game is a dead card is worth running it?
Not a necro I think most of us were waiting for this Zendikar set to see of any fun vamps on the horizon.
SO far I havent seen anything that is modern playable.
-
"what do you think about Nullpriest of Oblivion?"
The one downside of the Kicker mechanic is that its anti synergistic with vial and Sorin.
Nullpriest of Oblivion is cool, but if you can ever get to 6 mana in vamps, you're probably not going to win anyway.
On top of that, we dont have super scary creatures to bring back. A Nocturnus is cool but other than that I dont see this being value town.
This card strikes me as great for Commander tho, where the game is slower with scarier creatures.
-
However, this card does make me think about Morophon the boundless.
Sorin can get him out turn 3, and null priest can bring him back later.
This seems more like kitchen table magic now, but maybe theres something here.
-
New drana is cool, but 5 mana, no evasion, takes a turn to swing before doing anything...
With sorin maybe shes better, but cards that rely on other cards to be useful usually arent. (Unless its a backbreaking effect)
The 5 drops I think that are good for vial/sorin vamps would be bloodwitch and blood baron since they have great evasion.
-
The new nighthawk has potential but I think he would be the finisher.
Id imagine a weenie vamps deck, with the new nighthawk as the finisher, with IOKs and Thoughtseize to eliminate threats and fill the opponent's graveyard.
Ex: 4/3 Flying, Lifelink, Deathtouch makes racing an absolute Nightmare for the opponent.
-
The Nighthawk is slow, but if you build a hand hate, control style of deck I think he would shine.
Part of me wonders what Jund would think of this card...
What are your thoughts on Zargas? Since right now there are always some PW going on, a Sorin'd in Zargas can ding a planeswalker after a boardwipe. Depending on your deck, it can come in at 4 or 5.
Also I've been having some fun with Silversmote, bloodghasts and Sorins. Helix for 3, sac smote for card draw and the ghoul comes back by end of turn. With Cordial in the field it's basically pay 2 to draw a card and give all your guys +1s
how do you feel about these cards?: vampire nocturnus? i always see it as a great card but not constant +2/+1 and evasion is amazing but about 50% of the time ( vial plus lands ) is just a 3/3 champion of the dusk?even at 5 cmc with sorin can be very strong, be able to play it and draw an average of 2 cards is great, is worth a slot even a 5 cmc ? aether vial? considering you can't cast sorin,and late game is a dead card is worth running it?
Nocturnus is pretty great. he comes in and usually can finish a game depending on your board at the time. With tools like Zealot, Castle Lochtwain, horizon lands and fetchlands it can basically cause a shuffle, so you should have multiple opportunities in activating Nocturnus.
Champion of Dusk can work but I feel with all these draw tools, it's not a must have. However, a 5cmc 4/4 with card draw is pretty good and could be cheated in by Sorin.
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I found that Captivating Vampire was just an over-costed Legion lieutenant most of the time.
Vampire Discord https://discord.gg/ZWpy2hQ9Hr
BRWVampires WRB
BTW I'll test the deck the next Wednesday and I'll let you know
I won against:
- Burn 2-0
- Esper control 2-0
- Affinity 2-1
- Mono red prowess 2-0
What list did you use?
We're super pumped to hear that
Vampire Discord https://discord.gg/ZWpy2hQ9Hr
BRWVampires WRB
Creatures:
Planewalker:
Other Spells:
Lands:
4 Vampire Lacerator
3 Viscera Seer
4 Cordial Vampire
4 Bloodghast
4 Legion Lieutenant
4 Stromkirk Condemned
3 Vampire Nocturnus
2 Knight of the Ebon Legion
4 Vampire of the Dire Moon
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planewalker:
4 Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord
Other Spells:
3 Fatal Push
Lands:
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Concealed Courtyard
4 Silent Clearing
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Castle Locthwain
2x vicious conquistador
4x dusk Legion zealot
4x cordial Vampire
4x bloodghast
3x stromkirk captain
3x vampire nocturnus
3x vampire nighthawk
3x sorin imperious bloodlord
4x tragic slip
4x aether vial
4x dragonskull summit
4x foreboding ruins
2x blood crypt
10x swamp
2x unclaimed territory
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This will help your board wipe problem, but you really need to learn to not overextend. A good rule of thumb is only to have 2 vamps out against a control deck, but dont count your blooghasts. So 2 zealots and a bloodghast is fine.
-
Also sorin does some heavy lifting here bc of his ability to cheat vamps into play as well as pump up a little vamp every time by 1 and give him lifelink. That clock starts speeding up real quick, and Ive had control players WRATH my lone zealot with sorin counters. VALUE.
-
Vial, sorin all make counter/control decks easier to deal with, but it can also be a trap. If you place too many vamps out oo fast you'll get blown out and wont be able to recover. So do what you can to get your sorin to stick and let him do the heavy lifting.
-
Also if you run stormkirk captain & pushes, those should go out for hand hate and whatever else you might have. I leave noc in bc he can swing the game so quick, 1 turn might be all you need.
-
Hope this helps.
Vampire Discord https://discord.gg/ZWpy2hQ9Hr
BRWVampires WRB
Currently I only run Duress as a 4 of sideboard because well I sunk all my money into the main deck. How much of an upgrade is IoK over duress?
I think I want to have stromkirk condemned in the main too for bloodghast discard goodness just not sure if that would overload the two drop slot
I like condemned but personally I would only run him if you wanted to run a madness vairant. Aka asylum visitor or something like Oathsworn vampire to get full benefit out of the discard. 4 bloodghasts isnt really enough.
In addition, I would also throw in Gorger to get those crazy explosive turns. Of course that changes the deck but with vamps, I believe you HAVE to have synergy.
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In terms of IOK over duress, in the control matchup, Duress hits everything basically, however in Modern ( and sideboards in general) you want options. Usually its better to pick a GOOD option that hits a lot of different decks than a GREAT option that only hits a couple.
IOK will always be useful against every deck, unless they dont run 3CMC or lower cards...?
You can get by with it if you only use it in control and combo matchups but Its worth the investment. If you need MORE reach that IOK offers and still want to everything, I would run thoughtseize. Naturally you'll want to make sure you have a little life gain to balance. Even a 1/1 lifelink can outrace a lot of decks when combined with the right lord.
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In terms of deck optimizing, I'll just give you my feelings based on what you posted. Run whatever you like, these are just my initial feelings.
4x guul draaz vampire = best case scenario its pretty good, worst case its pretty bad. This is a card to judge on the worst case. If you want evasion, vampire cutthroat isnt bad. I personally like Vampire of the Dire Moon, Indulgent Aristocrat & Knight of the Ebon Legion.
2x vicious conquistador = not a bad card, but I think the other 3 cards above are just better most of the time.
4x dusk Legion zealot = keeps the deck moving, important card
4x cordial Vampire = makes vamps a modern threat
4x bloodghast = best vamp ever?
3x stromkirk captain = since you committed 10 cards in your mana base to run him, Id run 4
3x vampire nocturnus = 4 isnt too many with vials and sorin
3x vampire nighthawk = I love this card but hes just too slow for this style of deck, if you want the same effect, run Vampire of the Dire moon or gifted aetherborn. (VotDM is one of our best cards imo)
3x sorin imperious bloodlord = One of the key pieces that makes vamps a real threat, try to get that 4th.
4x tragic slip = make fatal push ASAP, 9/10 times its a pure upgrade
4x aether vial = great card
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4x dragonskull summit
4x foreboding ruins
2x blood crypt
10x swamp
2x unclaimed territory
Im assuming these are because of your budget which is fine. You'll run into plays where you have 2 DSs in your hand and itll suck but you have to do what you have to do. Also, you dont need 22 lands to play this deck, Try 20. Its better to get stuck on 3 lands then get flooded. You have vial and sorin.
I would try to find 4-7 of the cheapest swamp sac lands I could find. I think marsh flats is the cheapest atm.
Im sure you know cavern of souls is the way to go, but sadly its pretty pricey.
Overall the deck looks pretty good. Try tweaking the numbers around a bit, remember you want to play as many of your BEST cards as possible.
Hope this helped!
Vampire Discord https://discord.gg/ZWpy2hQ9Hr
BRWVampires WRB
I'm still tweeking stuff I only got alot of these upgrade cards very recently.
I'm still tweeking stuff I only got alot of these upgrade cards very recently.
4x vampire of the dire moon
4x stromkirk condemned
4x bloodghast
4x cordial Vampire
2x dusk Legion zealot
2x asylum visitor
3x stromkirk captain
4x nocturnus
4x aether vial
4x tragic slip
20 lands
I'm still tweeking but upgraded duress to IoK.
Will hopefully get some games in and see how it feels to have the extra pseudo lord in condemned or if I'm just always empty handed because of it
what do you think about Nullpriest of Oblivion ?, early game can attack and race late game can bring back good creatures, maybe is too mana intensive idk
if you want talk about modern vampire visit my deck https://deckstats.net/decks/22999/1587272-vampire-bw-max-potential-21-03#show__spoiler
SO far I havent seen anything that is modern playable.
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"what do you think about Nullpriest of Oblivion?"
The one downside of the Kicker mechanic is that its anti synergistic with vial and Sorin.
Nullpriest of Oblivion is cool, but if you can ever get to 6 mana in vamps, you're probably not going to win anyway.
On top of that, we dont have super scary creatures to bring back. A Nocturnus is cool but other than that I dont see this being value town.
This card strikes me as great for Commander tho, where the game is slower with scarier creatures.
-
However, this card does make me think about Morophon the boundless.
Sorin can get him out turn 3, and null priest can bring him back later.
This seems more like kitchen table magic now, but maybe theres something here.
-
New drana is cool, but 5 mana, no evasion, takes a turn to swing before doing anything...
With sorin maybe shes better, but cards that rely on other cards to be useful usually arent. (Unless its a backbreaking effect)
The 5 drops I think that are good for vial/sorin vamps would be bloodwitch and blood baron since they have great evasion.
-
The new nighthawk has potential but I think he would be the finisher.
Id imagine a weenie vamps deck, with the new nighthawk as the finisher, with IOKs and Thoughtseize to eliminate threats and fill the opponent's graveyard.
Ex: 4/3 Flying, Lifelink, Deathtouch makes racing an absolute Nightmare for the opponent.
-
The Nighthawk is slow, but if you build a hand hate, control style of deck I think he would shine.
Part of me wonders what Jund would think of this card...
Vampire Discord https://discord.gg/ZWpy2hQ9Hr
BRWVampires WRB
vampire nocturnus? i always see it as a great card but not constant +2/+1 and evasion is amazing but about 50% of the time ( vial plus lands ) is just a 3/3
champion of the dusk?even at 5 cmc with sorin can be very strong, be able to play it and draw an average of 2 cards is great, is worth a slot even a 5 cmc ?
aether vial? considering you can't cast sorin,and late game is a dead card is worth running it?
What are your thoughts on Zargas? Since right now there are always some PW going on, a Sorin'd in Zargas can ding a planeswalker after a boardwipe. Depending on your deck, it can come in at 4 or 5.
Also I've been having some fun with Silversmote, bloodghasts and Sorins. Helix for 3, sac smote for card draw and the ghoul comes back by end of turn. With Cordial in the field it's basically pay 2 to draw a card and give all your guys +1s
Nocturnus is pretty great. he comes in and usually can finish a game depending on your board at the time. With tools like Zealot, Castle Lochtwain, horizon lands and fetchlands it can basically cause a shuffle, so you should have multiple opportunities in activating Nocturnus.
Champion of Dusk can work but I feel with all these draw tools, it's not a must have. However, a 5cmc 4/4 with card draw is pretty good and could be cheated in by Sorin.