Things are looking up for vampires! The list is very similar to the one I use, which utilizes Dark Confidant and zero creature pumps (Lords/Nocturnus) or anything that makes it clunky. The sideboard is also really nice which actually answers the Modern metagame.
BR Vampires cco (3-1) MTGO Modern Daily (3-1 and 4-0) - Week of 3/26/12 Modern
If you guys don't know much about BR Vampires, Caleb Durward of LegitMTG and ChannelFireball fame piloted the original years ago with this list. Ever since Punishing Fire got banned, I'm glad to see our old pet decks playable in competitive Magic again.
Here's a list I'm currently piloting. It's close to the dailies winner so I'm kinda excited to see that I was dead on with the meta game on MTGO. My inclusion of Liliana was to have an extra answer to Geist of Saint Traft and a decent mid-game answer to combo decks.
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This is the legacy thread... are you trying to turn your vamp deck into a legacy deck or are you just informing us that a modern vamp deck did okay in 2 modern tournaments.
Whoops, totally posted in the wrong forum! Sorry! If I can get a mod to move this to Modern (developing) that would be peachy!
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Stormkirk Noble, Bloodcrazed Neonate, Markov Blademaster, Stormkirk Captain, Gatekeeper of Malakir could all be put into a version focused more on removing their threats to ensure early damage to get those +1/+1 counters, something like this:
4x Bloodcrazed Neonate
4x Markov Blademaster
4x Stormkirk Noble
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Stormkirk Captain
3x Liliana of the Veil
4x Terminate
4x Dark Confidant
4x Inquistion of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
20 land
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You like Super Smash Bros.? Melee or Brawl? Check this out! http://projectm.dantarion.com/
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Stormkirk Noble, Bloodcrazed Neonate, Markov Blademaster, Stormkirk Captain, Gatekeeper of Malakir could all be put into a version focused more on removing their threats to ensure early damage to get those +1/+1 counters, something like this:
4x Bloodcrazed Neonate
4x Markov Blademaster
4x Stormkirk Noble
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Stormkirk Captain
3x Liliana of the Veil
4x Terminate
4x Dark Confidant
4x Inquistion of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
20 land
Not to be a spoil sport or anything but I think 3 drops are the WRONG direction to take this deck. This should operate like a B/R zoo deck if I'm not mistaken, so any 3 drops would need to make huge waves like geist of st traft. My point is, Lili should be the top of our curve, we shouldn't even have to compete for the 3 slot.
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When does lightning bolt kill Emrakul? When your opponent's at three.
Not to be a spoil sport or anything but I think 3 drops are the WRONG direction to take this deck. This should operate like a B/R zoo deck if I'm not mistaken, so any 3 drops would need to make huge waves like geist of st traft. My point is, Lili should be the top of our curve, we shouldn't even have to compete for the 3 slot.
Yeah, in a meta with Loam/Delver aggro, you can't really afford to bank on 3-drops with conditional "decent" effects like Blade/Captains. You're probably behind at that point if they have a turn 1 anything since their 1-drops radically outclasses ours.
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It's too slow in the B/R version, which is strictly an aggro deck that relies on Kalastria combo as a finisher in a stalled board state.
If you're playing the mid-range version with Nocturnus or a control combo deck, Nighthawks are viable (for life gain), but 3-mana for 2 power does not do anything for aggro builds. Look back at the old SCG decklists when B/R vampires was at it's peak (when Caleb was piloting it). At best, they were sideboard material, but rarely ever (for competitive play) in the main deck for B/R Vampire aggro.
The only time I played Nighthawks was when Fires was legal and it was the only thing in the deck that didn't get ruined immediately by Punishing Fires Zoo.
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ive always wanted to put together a b/r weenie vamp list with vampiric fury and instead of Mark of Mutiny use Act of Aggression its instant speed!
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Standard: pft, i love to see my cards depreciate in value once they rotate :S
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
How are Vampires better than Zombies, here? Messenger and Gravecrawler > Noble and Gatekeeper in Modern, without a doubt. Everything else is if not absolutely in favor of zombies.
Replace Trail and Bolt with Dismember and Tragic Slip, and have a field day.
Even Lili is vastly superior with Zombies. Part of me would play Bw Zombies with Zealous Persecution and Path over any of this as of the moment.
I would have to say vampires is better. Gatekeeper itself seems better then most things you can do with zombies the equivalent is the zombie sac guy from alara (can't remember name) but he isn't nearly as good. Bloodghast is also better then gravecrawler and the interaction with highborn gives reach. I don't really see any reason at all to play zombies.
How are Vampires better than Zombies, here? Messenger and Gravecrawler > Noble and Gatekeeper in Modern, without a doubt. Everything else is if not absolutely in favor of zombies.
Replace Trail and Bolt with Dismember and Tragic Slip, and have a field day.
Even Lili is vastly superior with Zombies. Part of me would play Bw Zombies with Zealous Persecution and Path over any of this as of the moment.
Yeah, let's drop a 2-for-1 card (in a meta full of Jund, Snapcasters, Cliques, Delvers, faeries, merfolk, etc...) & the most efficient way remove creatures/game finisher for 1-for-1 spells that are extremely linear, yet conditional. We're playing Modern, not Standard.
Pretty sure Bloodghast > Gravecrawler since it's recursion effect is much easier & it still interacts with Liliana & Fetchlands. Not saying that vampires can blindly discard cards just as well as zombies, but the interaction is there as an option & some lists don't even use Liliana.
The problem here is that Zombies doesn't have the same reach as Vampires in stalled board state & the life gain from Kalastria is more synergistic while running Bobs. Zombies is more of an "all in" linear aggro deck compared to vampires.
I could even write up a tier list comparing each deck's primary converted mana cost drops, but unfortunately, I can't find a Modern Zombie 3-1 or 4-0 daily list. I wonder why...
And who said you can't play Zealous Persecution and Path in B/R aggro vampires? There was a mid-range Vampires list that "did well" with a 3-1 a few months back on MTGO. All you need are the shocklands to support it.
Modern Daily #3428173 on 02/18/2012
Player: 130 (actual name) (3-1)
I don't want to put down someone's opinion about why deck X vs. Y is better, but providing little or no facts, no examples backing up an opinion, it just simply becomes personal opinion of taste. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but it doesn't mean it's right. Because of that, it holds no value unless proven. Especially in competitive magic.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Let me rephrase the original quote since the only thing you're willing to contribute to the topic. My mistake for not proof reading it, though don't forget to remind people that it's not that easy to get a 3-1 on a dailies without a tier 1/1.5 deck.
The reason I shared that list was to make clear that you're not locked out of other colors in B/R Vampires and it's pretty illogically to come to some random conclusion that they can't splash white if they're hell bent on Path to Exile, let alone any other color.
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So Vampires can do ANYTHING resembling Haakon + Nameless Inversion? Vampires can work off a Vial and two land and still win games by turn 5 with anything other than an absolute lucksack? Vampires can win through a single Cryptic Command, Vedalken Shackles, Firespout, Engineered Explosives, or Black Sun's Zenith?
Zombies does.
You can play Gatekeeper and all of your other 2/2s alllll day. I'll take never-ending swings from pressure-generating inevitability instead, thanks. For every Highborn, there's a Messenger making it look bad (you know, since Burn isn't a deck and all).
...and let's be honest, B/R Vampires is the only plausible deck for the archetype. Grixis Vampires was a total joke, white vampires would be taking pointless damage just for Path? Yet B/W Zombies is stable, B/U Zombies is more than viable, and mono B Zombies is actually playable on a large scale.
So Vampires can do ANYTHING resembling Haakon + Nameless Inversion? Vampires can work off a Vial and two land and still win games by turn 5 with anything other than an absolute lucksack? Vampires can win through a single Cryptic Command, Vedalken Shackles, Firespout, Engineered Explosives, or Black Sun's Zenith?
Zombies does.
You can play Gatekeeper and all of your other 2/2s alllll day. I'll take never-ending swings from pressure-generating inevitability instead, thanks. For every Highborn, there's a Messenger making it look bad (you know, since Burn isn't a deck and all).
...and let's be honest, B/R Vampires is the only plausible deck for the archetype. Grixis Vampires was a total joke, white vampires would be taking pointless damage just for Path? Yet B/W Zombies is stable, B/U Zombies is more than viable, and mono B Zombies is actually playable on a large scale.
Get back to us when a few Zombie lists make some Dailies and not some magical Christmas Land scenarios & pointing the obvious (dies to removal).
Better yet, why don't you go out and prove that Zombies is legit and win a few Modern MTGO dailies or realistically a few 3-1s? Not exactly a soft field as a LGS is it, let alone a SCG event.
And I'm more interested in your actual credentials as a Magic player (especially since you pulled the old dies to removal arguement), which I can't tell if you're trolling. I'm willing to listen to someone's opinion like half of the SCG's writers, Caleb Durward (who actively travels state to state to compete and play tests with MTGO grinders) as opposed to someone (according to your post history) dabbles in local LGS Standard/Extended & critiquing tier 2-3 Modern decks? Yeah, I look forward to getting critiques from someone that says "dies to x and y removal". If I wanted such sound advice, I'll browse the Gatherer, thanks.
In the words of Mike Flores, "whatever man". Don't bother replying til you get your name on a dailies. That way, you actually have a retort to the argument since heaven forbid, no one plays graveyard hate in Modern. Not saying that Zombies won't be a "legit" deck ever, but as of right now, it's too fragile.
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Granted, they've all been by the same pilot, but the build has definitely been tuned through yoel42's 5 placings with it (including two 4-0's). I ported it to Cockatrice and modified it slightly (targeted removal instead of Funeral Charm) and was impressed. One strength of this build is that you can play a ton of the deck on only 1 land, which is pretty likely after you've hit yourself with Smallpox.
These two PTQs actually have (practically) Standard UB Zombies in the Top 8: Tampa (Attendance: 84) Jacksonville (Attendance: 102)
Attendance for those two PTQs is actually relatively close to the others. Thanks to probably the most powerful Zombie 1-drops in MTG and the best Zombie 3-drop slugger mono-black can buy (Geralf's Messenger), UB Zombies actually looks like a fairly powerful (if un-tuned) deck.
In the meantime, if Vampires in any form has actually Top 8'd a PTQ, please post here!
Great, that's all I needed. Something Chosen didn't bother to provide in his argument. It looks Legit, but a totally different style, similar to Pox in Legacy. Seems like something Reid Duke might play for fun.
To be fair, all the examples Chosen used in his argument made Zombies sound like a random FNM deck. The Zombie Pox list looks great to be honest.
I also followed up checking the dailies for this week and I was surprised to find one list, which looks like Vampires, but not quite... just the template. Surprise surprise, it doesn't run Aether Vial. It does run Gatekeeper & it doesn't run any clunky combos Chosen provided in his examples. Oh and it "runs 2/2s all day". Wait, "alllll day".
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Great, that's all I needed. Something Chosen didn't bother to provide in his argument. It looks Legit, but a totally different style, similar to Pox in Legacy. Seems like something Reid Duke might play for fun.
Stating the obvious shouldn't be something hand-in-hand with providing proof. Zombies are viable on a competitive Legacy level, and that has been apparent since Gravecrawler and Messenger were spoiled.
I also followed up checking the dailies for this week and I was surprised to find one list, which looks like Vampires, but not quite... just the template. Surprise surprise, it doesn't run Aether Vial. It does run Gatekeeper & it doesn't run any clunky combos Chosen provided in his examples. Oh and it "runs 2/2s all day". Wait, "alllll day".[/deck]
What exactly about Mono Black Aggro reminds you of your vampire deck? Beyond that, why would a deck with Gatekeeper (and really no other worthwhile Vial target) play Vial? What are you getting at there, exactly?
Mid-rangey Mono Black Aggro DOES run Gatekeeper. Zombies does not.
Interesting to note that it's the same guy that placed dailies with Vampires.[/deck]
That's 3-1 in a daily event. People play Heartbeat Combo and Dragonstorm in dailies. People play Tarmorack in dailies. People play UB Fae in dailies. People play Kithkin in dailies. People play Tombstalker decks in dailies. People play Salvage Titan in dailies. People play Boat Brew in dailies. Moral of the story: Crap is still crap, even with a name. Daily events are the lowest real tier of scheduled online competition that people plan to attend. You may as well be comparing it to when I 4-0'ed a Legacy event at my LGS with Spanish Inquisition in a field with absolutely no Force of Will, no Thorn of Amethyst, and no Thalia.
That "standard version" t8'ed MODERN events... something Vampires has failed to do regularly.
Also: "standard" allies dominated an Extended PTQ, "standard" Fae dominated Legacy for a brief period, and "standard" Affinity wrecked multiple formats. How exactly does an archetype bearing a type II core result in it being considered "bad"?
There's a huge difference suggesting a "good" combo that isn't even used in competitive play, critiquing good cards, suggesting using Path to Exile and then completely backing out, theory of play and deck building, than posting a legit deck. At least Lectrys did with his reply and because of that, I followed up on Zombies and color me impressed, it does look good. I'd play it, thanks to his suggestions and my follow up. Why not give examples like Lectrys, instead of doing an apathetic one-liner and being defensive like a 5-year old when someone calls you out for it?
What's this? You're saying Dailies is the lowest tier? I'm pretty sure a handful of pros and writers at SCG would highly disagree with your statement, such as Smi77y (of 60cards and SCG). You do realize dailies are pretty much the meta a few weeks/months ahead of paper Magic, right? Oh right... you don't.
...I'm not even going to bother with a reply seeing how you've completely ignored all your previous posts, changing your narrative and tone, and pretending you're not an idiot. I spared the expense of copy/pasting your arguments so it doesn't horribly embarrass you. It's just hilarious you didn't catch your own gatekeeper/vial statements a few posts back.
Who should I kid, why would I take advice from anyone with such a "metal" avatar. Someone that thinks a LGS is a good example of competitive play. Let alone, saying, "it dies to removal" as an argument. Unless that LGS is John Finkle's apartment... Don't bother replying, I'm not even going to bother reading your next retort/repy. I'll give Zombies it's props, but not "The Chosen One".
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Yeah, opening with a post that "down plays" an archetype in said archetype post is really really helpful. I might as well walk in a Star Trek Convention and tell everyone there that Star Wars is better over a megaphone.
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BR Vampires
cco (3-1)
MTGO Modern Daily (3-1 and 4-0) - Week of 3/26/12
Modern
4 Bloodghast
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Kalastria Highborn
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Vampire Lacerator
Spells:
2 Dismember
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
3 Thoughtseize
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Dragonskull Summit
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Marsh Flats
5 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Arc Trail
2 Combust
2 Extirpate
4 Molten Rain
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Shattering Spree
1 Thoughtseize
If you guys don't know much about BR Vampires, Caleb Durward of LegitMTG and ChannelFireball fame piloted the original years ago with this list. Ever since Punishing Fire got banned, I'm glad to see our old pet decks playable in competitive Magic again.
4 Bloodghast
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Kalastria Highborn
4 Vampire Lacerator
4 Viscera Seer
4 Pulse Tracker
Spells:
3 Dark Tutelage
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Burst Lightning
2 Arc Trail
2 Mark of Mutiny
6 Swamp
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
3 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Cunning Sparkmage
3 Demon of Death's Gate
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Doom Blade
2 Arc Trail
1 Mark of Mutiny
Here's a list I'm currently piloting. It's close to the dailies winner so I'm kinda excited to see that I was dead on with the meta game on MTGO. My inclusion of Liliana was to have an extra answer to Geist of Saint Traft and a decent mid-game answer to combo decks.
4 Bloodghast
3 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Kalastria Highborn
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Vampire Lacerator
3 Viscera Seer
Planeswalkers:
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Arc Trail
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
Lands:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Marsh Flats
6 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Combust
3 Duress
2 Terminate
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Shattering Spree
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Volcanic Fallout
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EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
4x Bloodcrazed Neonate
4x Markov Blademaster
4x Stormkirk Noble
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Stormkirk Captain
3x Liliana of the Veil
4x Terminate
4x Dark Confidant
4x Inquistion of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
20 land
It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
Not to be a spoil sport or anything but I think 3 drops are the WRONG direction to take this deck. This should operate like a B/R zoo deck if I'm not mistaken, so any 3 drops would need to make huge waves like geist of st traft. My point is, Lili should be the top of our curve, we shouldn't even have to compete for the 3 slot.
Yeah, in a meta with Loam/Delver aggro, you can't really afford to bank on 3-drops with conditional "decent" effects like Blade/Captains. You're probably behind at that point if they have a turn 1 anything since their 1-drops radically outclasses ours.
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If you're playing the mid-range version with Nocturnus or a control combo deck, Nighthawks are viable (for life gain), but 3-mana for 2 power does not do anything for aggro builds. Look back at the old SCG decklists when B/R vampires was at it's peak (when Caleb was piloting it). At best, they were sideboard material, but rarely ever (for competitive play) in the main deck for B/R Vampire aggro.
The only time I played Nighthawks was when Fires was legal and it was the only thing in the deck that didn't get ruined immediately by Punishing Fires Zoo.
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Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
Replace Trail and Bolt with Dismember and Tragic Slip, and have a field day.
Even Lili is vastly superior with Zombies. Part of me would play Bw Zombies with Zealous Persecution and Path over any of this as of the moment.
Yeah, let's drop a 2-for-1 card (in a meta full of Jund, Snapcasters, Cliques, Delvers, faeries, merfolk, etc...) & the most efficient way remove creatures/game finisher for 1-for-1 spells that are extremely linear, yet conditional. We're playing Modern, not Standard.
Pretty sure Bloodghast > Gravecrawler since it's recursion effect is much easier & it still interacts with Liliana & Fetchlands. Not saying that vampires can blindly discard cards just as well as zombies, but the interaction is there as an option & some lists don't even use Liliana.
The problem here is that Zombies doesn't have the same reach as Vampires in stalled board state & the life gain from Kalastria is more synergistic while running Bobs. Zombies is more of an "all in" linear aggro deck compared to vampires.
I could even write up a tier list comparing each deck's primary converted mana cost drops, but unfortunately, I can't find a Modern Zombie 3-1 or 4-0 daily list. I wonder why...
And who said you can't play Zealous Persecution and Path in B/R aggro vampires? There was a mid-range Vampires list that "did well" with a 3-1 a few months back on MTGO. All you need are the shocklands to support it.
Modern Daily #3428173 on 02/18/2012
Player: 130 (actual name) (3-1)
2 Godless Shrine
3 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
11 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
CREATURES
4 Bloodghast
4 Dark Confidant
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Kalastria Highborn
3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Vampire Nocturnus
4 Viscera Seer
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Lashwrithe
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Path to Exile
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Crime/Punishment
1 Damnation
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Extirpate
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Thoughtseize
I don't want to put down someone's opinion about why deck X vs. Y is better, but providing little or no facts, no examples backing up an opinion, it just simply becomes personal opinion of taste. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but it doesn't mean it's right. Because of that, it holds no value unless proven. Especially in competitive magic.
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Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Let me rephrase the original quote since the only thing you're willing to contribute to the topic. My mistake for not proof reading it, though don't forget to remind people that it's not that easy to get a 3-1 on a dailies without a tier 1/1.5 deck.
The reason I shared that list was to make clear that you're not locked out of other colors in B/R Vampires and it's pretty illogically to come to some random conclusion that they can't splash white if they're hell bent on Path to Exile, let alone any other color.
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Zombies does.
You can play Gatekeeper and all of your other 2/2s alllll day. I'll take never-ending swings from pressure-generating inevitability instead, thanks. For every Highborn, there's a Messenger making it look bad (you know, since Burn isn't a deck and all).
...and let's be honest, B/R Vampires is the only plausible deck for the archetype. Grixis Vampires was a total joke, white vampires would be taking pointless damage just for Path? Yet B/W Zombies is stable, B/U Zombies is more than viable, and mono B Zombies is actually playable on a large scale.
Get back to us when a few Zombie lists make some Dailies and not some magical Christmas Land scenarios & pointing the obvious (dies to removal).
Better yet, why don't you go out and prove that Zombies is legit and win a few Modern MTGO dailies or realistically a few 3-1s? Not exactly a soft field as a LGS is it, let alone a SCG event.
And I'm more interested in your actual credentials as a Magic player (especially since you pulled the old dies to removal arguement), which I can't tell if you're trolling. I'm willing to listen to someone's opinion like half of the SCG's writers, Caleb Durward (who actively travels state to state to compete and play tests with MTGO grinders) as opposed to someone (according to your post history) dabbles in local LGS Standard/Extended & critiquing tier 2-3 Modern decks? Yeah, I look forward to getting critiques from someone that says "dies to x and y removal". If I wanted such sound advice, I'll browse the Gatherer, thanks.
In the words of Mike Flores, "whatever man". Don't bother replying til you get your name on a dailies. That way, you actually have a retort to the argument since heaven forbid, no one plays graveyard hate in Modern. Not saying that Zombies won't be a "legit" deck ever, but as of right now, it's too fragile.
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4 Mutavault
3 Tectonic Edge
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
15 Swamp
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
4 Funeral Charm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Smallpox
4 Thoughtseize
2 Brittle Effigy
4 Infest
4 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Victim of Night
Granted, they've all been by the same pilot, but the build has definitely been tuned through yoel42's 5 placings with it (including two 4-0's). I ported it to Cockatrice and modified it slightly (targeted removal instead of Funeral Charm) and was impressed. One strength of this build is that you can play a ton of the deck on only 1 land, which is pretty likely after you've hit yourself with Smallpox.
These two PTQs actually have (practically) Standard UB Zombies in the Top 8:
Tampa (Attendance: 84)
Jacksonville (Attendance: 102)
Attendance for those two PTQs is actually relatively close to the others. Thanks to probably the most powerful Zombie 1-drops in MTG and the best Zombie 3-drop slugger mono-black can buy (Geralf's Messenger), UB Zombies actually looks like a fairly powerful (if un-tuned) deck.
In the meantime, if Vampires in any form has actually Top 8'd a PTQ, please post here!
To be fair, all the examples Chosen used in his argument made Zombies sound like a random FNM deck. The Zombie Pox list looks great to be honest.
I also followed up checking the dailies for this week and I was surprised to find one list, which looks like Vampires, but not quite... just the template. Surprise surprise, it doesn't run Aether Vial. It does run Gatekeeper & it doesn't run any clunky combos Chosen provided in his examples. Oh and it "runs 2/2s all day". Wait, "alllll day".
cco (3-1)
Modern Daily #3681338 on 04/04/2012
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Dragonskull Summit
4 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Marsh Flats
4 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
4 Withered Wretch
2 Dismember
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
3 Thoughtseize
2 Arc Trail
3 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Molten Rain
1 Olivia Voldaren
3 Shattering Spree
1 Terminate
1 Thoughtseize
Interesting to note that it's the same guy that placed dailies with Vampires.
Since you mentioned "any" top 8 PTQ and provided a standard version of Zombies, I might as well provide Vampire's past top 8s in standard as well.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=16
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Stating the obvious shouldn't be something hand-in-hand with providing proof. Zombies are viable on a competitive Legacy level, and that has been apparent since Gravecrawler and Messenger were spoiled.
What exactly about Mono Black Aggro reminds you of your vampire deck? Beyond that, why would a deck with Gatekeeper (and really no other worthwhile Vial target) play Vial? What are you getting at there, exactly?
Mid-rangey Mono Black Aggro DOES run Gatekeeper. Zombies does not.
That's 3-1 in a daily event. People play Heartbeat Combo and Dragonstorm in dailies. People play Tarmorack in dailies. People play UB Fae in dailies. People play Kithkin in dailies. People play Tombstalker decks in dailies. People play Salvage Titan in dailies. People play Boat Brew in dailies. Moral of the story: Crap is still crap, even with a name. Daily events are the lowest real tier of scheduled online competition that people plan to attend. You may as well be comparing it to when I 4-0'ed a Legacy event at my LGS with Spanish Inquisition in a field with absolutely no Force of Will, no Thorn of Amethyst, and no Thalia.
That "standard version" t8'ed MODERN events... something Vampires has failed to do regularly.
Also: "standard" allies dominated an Extended PTQ, "standard" Fae dominated Legacy for a brief period, and "standard" Affinity wrecked multiple formats. How exactly does an archetype bearing a type II core result in it being considered "bad"?
What's this? You're saying Dailies is the lowest tier? I'm pretty sure a handful of pros and writers at SCG would highly disagree with your statement, such as Smi77y (of 60cards and SCG). You do realize dailies are pretty much the meta a few weeks/months ahead of paper Magic, right? Oh right... you don't.
...I'm not even going to bother with a reply seeing how you've completely ignored all your previous posts, changing your narrative and tone, and pretending you're not an idiot. I spared the expense of copy/pasting your arguments so it doesn't horribly embarrass you. It's just hilarious you didn't catch your own gatekeeper/vial statements a few posts back.
Who should I kid, why would I take advice from anyone with such a "metal" avatar. Someone that thinks a LGS is a good example of competitive play. Let alone, saying, "it dies to removal" as an argument. Unless that LGS is John Finkle's apartment... Don't bother replying, I'm not even going to bother reading your next retort/repy. I'll give Zombies it's props, but not "The Chosen One".
You can catch some of my work at TOKYOPOP & on the Playboy Channel! Don't miss Celebrity Sex Tales!
PolishTamales.com
Graphical Contributor to LegitMTG.com & Comic Contributor to ManaDeprived.com
It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
You can catch some of my work at TOKYOPOP & on the Playboy Channel! Don't miss Celebrity Sex Tales!
PolishTamales.com
Graphical Contributor to LegitMTG.com & Comic Contributor to ManaDeprived.com