some basic results with the red splash. I'm finding the reforges to be much much better than the time reversal. Most of the time, the cards I discard I don't want to see again. The exception is, of course, at times the early harvests. I am thinking that a few eternal witness should see play, maybe one, at least. Has there been any thought given to the original combo decks transmute engine? I mean, muddle the mixture, weird harvest, etc. could give the deck some more consistency, or at least fix the issues I'm having. The only real problem is that I'm starting to absolutely detest serum visions. Sleight of hand is usually pretty good, but I'm thinking about switching out the visions for faithless looting.
edit: Lots more goldfishing has revealed some more issues. current build:
I originally played your list, baneslayer, but the time reversals and serum visions were beyond bad in that one. Reforge the Soul helped tremendously in that one, as I almost never wanted to see any of the cards I had before. It was still too slow, however. I switched to this more traditional transmute list and it's been much more consistent and I consistently go off t4/t5. However, sometimes I have issues getting enough mana to kill with a zenith on t3/t4 (yes, I can go off t3 pretty easily now and generate a lot of mana, just not quite enough) and the ability to recycle my deck at least once probably would help. In essence, the transmute engine actually makes time reversal the superior spell now, possibly. However, I don't one bit regret getting rid of serum visions for faithless looting. It's just absolutely better in nearly every way during the combo turn and sometimes before it, pitching otherwise now useless ramp spells or lands to draw gas.
For now, -3 reforge the soul, +2 time reversal, +1 faithless looting and we'll see how it goes. Also, I think a primarily red based heartbeat deck might actually be viable now. It's certainly possible to go through some cards and mana in these decks!
sorry for the double post, but I've been testing this against other combo decks. The list is similar to what I posted above with the caveat that I've got it as::
1 mountain
9 island
9 forest
rest same
2 faithless looting
2 time reversal.
The counter magic and remands helped a bunch against a splinter twin deck. I couldn't draw ramp to save my life, but remanding his combo a couple of times slowed him down long enough for me to mind spring for 4 and go off in the same turn.
As expected, time reversal is absolutely brutal with the transmute engine. The ability to go off and get upwards of 100+ green and blue mana off of something like 6 lands is ridiculous consistency. It's a bit slow, so the muddles/remands help a ton. You can also go off t4 pretty easily with a sak elder and a cultivate/kodama's reach ramp OR just stall until you can go off.
Kodama's Reach is great but it does not allow you to get 5 untaped lands turn 3 (and possibly a kill with hearbeat > harvest > TnN/Weird harvest > Kiki+exarch) while Search for Tomorrow does. (turn 1 search + land, turn two Sakura + land, sac EoT, turn 3 fifth land).
Search is ok, but I just prefer the ability to fetch out 2 cards from my deck. I have tried search for tomorrow, and honestly, on the combo turn or before it, I just prefer the cultivate/kodama's reach. Fetching a land to hand is one more I can't draw and its' good discard fodder for the faithless lootings in the deck ( I only have two because generally, I prefer to use them to dig while going through on my combo turn) and tapped land to play just starts boosting my mana pretty well. I will admit it's one of the weaker slots in the deck and maybe could be something else. I would be more likely to run birds of paradise over search, or maybe elvish pioneer or similar.
control/ramp with a combo finish is actually exactly how I play it. I know 8 counters is a bit low for such a deck, but I've been thinking about adding in a bit more control. I can't realistically hope to go off t3, t4 or 5 is far more likely..with back up.
My build can "go off" on t4 fairly easily, most aggro can't best me by then. I have transmutable board wipe in the form of firespout and some extra counters in the form of voidslime, both of which are in the board. There are also 2 blood moon and a magus for the rare times I need to try to blow out a non basic happy deck.
However, using maindeck cards, sometimes you just have to cast a drift as a blocker, but you can also hold on to the sakura elder and block/sac with it. It prevents some damage, at least. I also run 4 remand, so I do my level headed best to keep them busy while I'm building up my mana base for a run on the endgame.
I'm also looking into the deck, and while I think helix pinnacle seems like an interesting win condition (though really dependent on hitting a time walk effect), I'm not sure about Ambassador Laquatus. There's been a persistent debate over whether the deck even wants to try to win via milling (needing about 50 mana instead of 20 for a blaze effect) and even if you are going for a milling win wouldn't Blue Sun's Zenith be better since it doubles as card drawing for you?
This has been a pet deck of mine since Modern was announced. It's pretty fun to play and does well enough for me to enjoy playing it. Recently I have wanted to try cutting Remands and playing bullets to deal with Pridemages in my Meta as Remand is often terrible against them and forces you to go multiple Heartbeats. I do miss Remand greatly against Tron and Tempo decks though. Also something to do on two when you don't have an Elder was very nice. Just tinkering though. I have always liked the Emrakrul Kill in addition to the Zenith package because it's cheaper and almost as direct as a red X spell - also both are readily available with Weird Harvest.
I threw this together for a budget format recently (Heirloom PREs on MTGO if you're familiar those). It seems pretty well matched up against the Modern field, though. Diabolic Revelation is pretty nutso in here. I really doubt the deck's optimal, but it's at least a very solid starting point for a deck.
Edit - Went 2-2 in played matches in a Modern tourney. One of the losses should have been a win, since he had F6d game three and I was going off. I stupidly forgot all my Harvests were in the grave and didn't leave two extra mana open to Revive a Harvest. It was especially dumb since I was tutoring for more cards than I needed. The other loss was to a quick aggro draw with Thalia on the play when I was mana light. I was actually going to have to tutor for land number five to win, but Thalia shoved the boot right in on that plan. Thalia also kicked me in the face the next game, but she was kind of irrelevant since I double mulled into two Swamps and never drew another land.
Not many decks in the format are prepared for this sort of combo. It's a pretty consistent win on turn 4, and there aren't a lot of decks that have anything main to stop it. A lot don't have anything in the side, either. It's still gimmicky, but I think it can be a real deck with some work (and cards worth more than .4 tickets). I also have no idea what to change since the cards in the main deck all seem good. If you do cut some Increasing Ambitions, leave at least one in so that 7 lands with only a Harvest and a Revelation in hand still wins. You also end up wanting to tutor for an Ambition sometimes.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Rot Farm doesn't exactly combo with Harvest. Lands coming into play tapped is also very bad, but Verdant Catacombs is actually a real card. As I said, though, this was built for a budget format. Adding a set of Catacombs would be an obvious upgrade. Even without fetches, though, the mana is rock solid. It's mostly Forests and the deck packs a dozen Rampants. The only times I've had bad colored mana including practice draws were in mulligans to oblivion.
Noxious Revival is in the sideboard for Surgical Extraction. Witness is just worse than Recollect. Recollect can be revived to retarget black spells and only costs a single green. Witness sits on the table being a lump. It can technically block, but the likelihood of that being relevant is lower than the upside of Recollect. You could argue that all the Revives should also be replaced with Witnesses, and that could very well be correct. I'm not sure how often that one mana difference would be relevant, and getting around Spell Snare's a real thing. Again, budget format, so I haven't put much thought into cards that have value. Revive also buys back a Rampant or Tribe Elder on turn three if necessary, though, which it sometimes is.
Tired of running the "Real" decks and going all out combo on all formats. I had some fun with this on MODO a while back so I thought I'd make a basic paper list. Ideas? Sideboard is still in the works.
Drift of Phantasms could be Reclaim, as I tend to find that people will always leave Drift in your hand to delay your combo, but this guarantees both Heartbeat and Early Harvest.
They're screwed. No matter which cards they leave in your hand, you get access to both USZ and Praetor's Counsel this turn. Given this deck's absurd mana production, you will be able to cast Praetor's Counsel and cast some enormous number of Early Harvests afterwards.
Also remember that if you already have any of the Gifts piles cards in your hand, you can replace them with more Gifts or Early Harvests (if you're not already searching for that card) or something like that.
Alright, some epic experimentation later:
Kinda fun. Needs some fiddling with the win-cons, though. I'll probably drop some into the SB and fetch them with Research/Development as soon as the loop stands. Spirals might get replaced by single Emrakul for the re-shuffling.
So after much testing I have found that Thalia throws things off quote a bit and she is a pain to deal with. as are the other "make things cost more" creatures.
I'm still playing with the deck and recently finished it in real life.
I'm using Remand and/or Gigadrowse to stall, but I just found this card and liked it...Clinging Mists
Also, I'm playing with Enter the Infinite as one of the main win conditions.
And Arkavian, I feel the same about cantrips, mainly against aggro/fast decks when we dont have the time to draw for right cards. I'm thinking about Telling Time and Peer Trough Depths, or maybe Index.
I was toying with this deck on my own for ****s and giggles and my list looks a little different than what I'm seeing here. Past in Flames is the bee's knees in this deck. Why is no one playing it?
And Arkavian, I feel the same about cantrips, mainly against aggro/fast decks when we dont have the time to draw for right cards. I'm thinking about Telling Time and Peer Trough Depths, or maybe Index.
Yeah, i was mainly testing against mono red and it just seemed like it just needed one more turn most of the time. Im gonna give Fog
a shot in the sideboard. As far as a drawing cards, i think See Beyond would be perfect, more often than not i have one of the kill conditions in my hand rather than a card i want.
In my opinion having six kill spells main deck is too many. I am not impressed with Rude Awakening unless you have a time walk effect. Also, Gifts Ungiven in my opinion cannot be replaced. The gifts package in the deck gurantees a win on your turn and that is a big deal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
edit: Lots more goldfishing has revealed some more issues. current build:
8 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Faithless Looting
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Remand
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Sakura Tribe-Elder
1 Reality Spasm
1 Weird Harvest
1 Mind Spring
2 Kodama's Reach
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Early Harvest
4 Drift of Phantasms
1 Blue sun's zenith
1 Eternal Witness
I originally played your list, baneslayer, but the time reversals and serum visions were beyond bad in that one. Reforge the Soul helped tremendously in that one, as I almost never wanted to see any of the cards I had before. It was still too slow, however. I switched to this more traditional transmute list and it's been much more consistent and I consistently go off t4/t5. However, sometimes I have issues getting enough mana to kill with a zenith on t3/t4 (yes, I can go off t3 pretty easily now and generate a lot of mana, just not quite enough) and the ability to recycle my deck at least once probably would help. In essence, the transmute engine actually makes time reversal the superior spell now, possibly. However, I don't one bit regret getting rid of serum visions for faithless looting. It's just absolutely better in nearly every way during the combo turn and sometimes before it, pitching otherwise now useless ramp spells or lands to draw gas.
For now, -3 reforge the soul, +2 time reversal, +1 faithless looting and we'll see how it goes. Also, I think a primarily red based heartbeat deck might actually be viable now. It's certainly possible to go through some cards and mana in these decks!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
1 mountain
9 island
9 forest
rest same
2 faithless looting
2 time reversal.
The counter magic and remands helped a bunch against a splinter twin deck. I couldn't draw ramp to save my life, but remanding his combo a couple of times slowed him down long enough for me to mind spring for 4 and go off in the same turn.
As expected, time reversal is absolutely brutal with the transmute engine. The ability to go off and get upwards of 100+ green and blue mana off of something like 6 lands is ridiculous consistency. It's a bit slow, so the muddles/remands help a ton. You can also go off t4 pretty easily with a sak elder and a cultivate/kodama's reach ramp OR just stall until you can go off.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Search is ok, but I just prefer the ability to fetch out 2 cards from my deck. I have tried search for tomorrow, and honestly, on the combo turn or before it, I just prefer the cultivate/kodama's reach. Fetching a land to hand is one more I can't draw and its' good discard fodder for the faithless lootings in the deck ( I only have two because generally, I prefer to use them to dig while going through on my combo turn) and tapped land to play just starts boosting my mana pretty well. I will admit it's one of the weaker slots in the deck and maybe could be something else. I would be more likely to run birds of paradise over search, or maybe elvish pioneer or similar.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
However, using maindeck cards, sometimes you just have to cast a drift as a blocker, but you can also hold on to the sakura elder and block/sac with it. It prevents some damage, at least. I also run 4 remand, so I do my level headed best to keep them busy while I'm building up my mana base for a run on the endgame.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
9 Forest
7 Island
1 Mountain
Creatures
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Drift of Phantasms
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Emrakrul, the Aeons Torn
Spells
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Early Harvest
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Search for Tomorrow
1 Firespout
1 Noxious Revival
1 Time Warp
1 Weird Harvest
1 Primal Command
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Harrow
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Careful Consideration
1 Dismember
1 All Sun's Dawn
2 Plow Under
1 Arashi, Sky Asunder
1 Vexing Shusher
3 Blood Moon
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Nature's Claim
1 Trygon Predator
1 Firespout
1 Dispel
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Echoing Truth
This has been a pet deck of mine since Modern was announced. It's pretty fun to play and does well enough for me to enjoy playing it. Recently I have wanted to try cutting Remands and playing bullets to deal with Pridemages in my Meta as Remand is often terrible against them and forces you to go multiple Heartbeats. I do miss Remand greatly against Tron and Tempo decks though. Also something to do on two when you don't have an Elder was very nice. Just tinkering though. I have always liked the Emrakrul Kill in addition to the Zenith package because it's cheaper and almost as direct as a red X spell - also both are readily available with Weird Harvest.
4 Early Harvest
4 Heartbeat of Spring
3 Revive
4 Rampant Growth
1 Exsanguinate
4 Diabolic Revelation
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Recollect
4 Increasing Ambition
4 Search for Tomorrow
14 Forest
9 Swamp
3 Sudden Death
1 Krosan Grip
3 Creeping Corrosion
4 Duress
1 Gaea's Blessing
2 Noxious Revival
1 Nature's Claim
I threw this together for a budget format recently (Heirloom PREs on MTGO if you're familiar those). It seems pretty well matched up against the Modern field, though. Diabolic Revelation is pretty nutso in here. I really doubt the deck's optimal, but it's at least a very solid starting point for a deck.
Edit - Went 2-2 in played matches in a Modern tourney. One of the losses should have been a win, since he had F6d game three and I was going off. I stupidly forgot all my Harvests were in the grave and didn't leave two extra mana open to Revive a Harvest. It was especially dumb since I was tutoring for more cards than I needed. The other loss was to a quick aggro draw with Thalia on the play when I was mana light. I was actually going to have to tutor for land number five to win, but Thalia shoved the boot right in on that plan. Thalia also kicked me in the face the next game, but she was kind of irrelevant since I double mulled into two Swamps and never drew another land.
Not many decks in the format are prepared for this sort of combo. It's a pretty consistent win on turn 4, and there aren't a lot of decks that have anything main to stop it. A lot don't have anything in the side, either. It's still gimmicky, but I think it can be a real deck with some work (and cards worth more than .4 tickets). I also have no idea what to change since the cards in the main deck all seem good. If you do cut some Increasing Ambitions, leave at least one in so that 7 lands with only a Harvest and a Revelation in hand still wins. You also end up wanting to tutor for an Ambition sometimes.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Rot Farm doesn't exactly combo with Harvest. Lands coming into play tapped is also very bad, but Verdant Catacombs is actually a real card. As I said, though, this was built for a budget format. Adding a set of Catacombs would be an obvious upgrade. Even without fetches, though, the mana is rock solid. It's mostly Forests and the deck packs a dozen Rampants. The only times I've had bad colored mana including practice draws were in mulligans to oblivion.
Noxious Revival is in the sideboard for Surgical Extraction. Witness is just worse than Recollect. Recollect can be revived to retarget black spells and only costs a single green. Witness sits on the table being a lump. It can technically block, but the likelihood of that being relevant is lower than the upside of Recollect. You could argue that all the Revives should also be replaced with Witnesses, and that could very well be correct. I'm not sure how often that one mana difference would be relevant, and getting around Spell Snare's a real thing. Again, budget format, so I haven't put much thought into cards that have value. Revive also buys back a Rampant or Tribe Elder on turn three if necessary, though, which it sometimes is.
2 Swamp
2 Moutain
9 Forest
2 Noxious Revival
2 Eternal Witness
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Time Warp
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
1 Banefire
4 Sakura Tribe Elder
4 Cultivate
4 Search for Tomorrow
1 Weird Harvet
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Early Harvest
4 Remand
I also recommend slotting in a Praetor's Counsel, as I really like the following Gifts piles:
Pre-Combo:
Heartbeat of Spring-Early Harvest-Drift of Phantasms-Noxious Revival
Drift of Phantasms could be Reclaim, as I tend to find that people will always leave Drift in your hand to delay your combo, but this guarantees both Heartbeat and Early Harvest.
Mid-Combo:
Eternal Witness-Revive-Praetor's Counsel-Blue Sun's Zenith
They're screwed. No matter which cards they leave in your hand, you get access to both USZ and Praetor's Counsel this turn. Given this deck's absurd mana production, you will be able to cast Praetor's Counsel and cast some enormous number of Early Harvests afterwards.
Also remember that if you already have any of the Gifts piles cards in your hand, you can replace them with more Gifts or Early Harvests (if you're not already searching for that card) or something like that.
2 Swamp
2 Moutain
9 Forest
1 Revive
1 Noxious Revival
2 Eternal Witness
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Serum Visions
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
1 Banefire
4 Sakura Tribe Elder
4 Cultivate
4 Search for Tomorrow
1 Weird Harvet
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Early Harvest
4 Remand
4 Nature's Claim
1 Echoing Truth
1 Combust
2 Spell Pierce
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Repeal
We'll see how it goes.
Quick experiment-al list:
4 Early Harvest
4 Epic Experiment
4 Reiterate
4 Reverberate
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Rampant Growth
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Eternal Witness
1 Recollect
2 Psychic Spiral
1 Grapeshot
4 Island
6 Mountain
9 Forest
Got to test this.
Alright, some epic experimentation later:
Kinda fun. Needs some fiddling with the win-cons, though. I'll probably drop some into the SB and fetch them with Research/Development as soon as the loop stands. Spirals might get replaced by single Emrakul for the re-shuffling.
L1 Judge
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Eternal Witness
1 Noxious Revival
1 Recollect
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Search for Tomorrow
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Wood Elves
4 Remand
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Rude Awakening
1 Banefire
2 Blue Sun's Zenith
7 Island
9 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
3 Wood Elves
2 Eternal Witness
2 Drift of Phantasms
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Early Harvest
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Search for Tomorrow
2 Cultivate
1 Banefire
3 Blue Sun's Zenith
3 Remand
1 Noxious Revival
1 Recollect
1 Mountain
7 Island
9 Forest
4 Dispel
3 Gigadrowse
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Krosan Grip
1 Naturalize
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Firespout
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
Moonmist?
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
Anyone still testing this deck if so what is the opinion on Delay?
Also I was playtesting last night and really got the feeling that maybe one cantrip could help quite a bit.
I'm still playing with the deck and recently finished it in real life.
I'm using Remand and/or Gigadrowse to stall, but I just found this card and liked it...Clinging Mists
Also, I'm playing with Enter the Infinite as one of the main win conditions.
And Arkavian, I feel the same about cantrips, mainly against aggro/fast decks when we dont have the time to draw for right cards. I'm thinking about Telling Time and Peer Trough Depths, or maybe Index.
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
3x Banefire
4x Farseek
4x Past in Flames
3x Rude Awakening
4x Search for Tomorrow
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
4x Early Harvest
4x Telling Time
Enchantment (4)
4x Heartbeat of Spring
Land (22)
6x Forest
5x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
Yeah, i was mainly testing against mono red and it just seemed like it just needed one more turn most of the time. Im gonna give Fog
a shot in the sideboard. As far as a drawing cards, i think See Beyond would be perfect, more often than not i have one of the kill conditions in my hand rather than a card i want.
In my opinion having six kill spells main deck is too many. I am not impressed with Rude Awakening unless you have a time walk effect. Also, Gifts Ungiven in my opinion cannot be replaced. The gifts package in the deck gurantees a win on your turn and that is a big deal.