I'm personally growing more and more fond of Genesis Wave in this deck, especially post-board. My favorite anti-aggro plan is to board into 4 Waves, board in Grazing Gladeharts and some other creatures, and just gain a bajillion life. I have also really been happy with this plan against Jund, though I modify it to include Keiga, the Tide Star because it absolutely destroys that deck. I almost want to put Lotus Cobras into the deck and really go for the Wave plan.
I'm probably playing this in the online PTQ tomorrow.
I'm only going to play it in the PTQ under 2 conditions:
1. I wake up early enough in the morning and feel like playing a PTQ all day--I give this a 50/50 shot.
2. I feel confident enough after the tuning from today's grinding/testing on MTGO. I'm not playing a PTQ that I don't feel I can win.
Granted, there are a lot of games where I'm flat-out destroying my opponents on multiple levels. That's part of why this deck archetype holds a special place in my heart.
Anyways, I have been working on all kinds of builds throughout the week. I started with trying the greediest 3-color build (Red for Past In Flames, Firespout, and Ancient Grudge), and leaned heavily on Gifts. I don't really think Past in Flames is worth the third color and the strain on your manabase; it's just not necessary. Praetor's Counsel and a lot of various recursion spells will get your graveyard back, so I'm fine without PiF's inclusion. I'm going to miss the power level of Firespout for raping aggressive decks and being a functional double Time Walk in a number of match-ups--but I prefer being able to actually cast my spells than to have glittering ones.
I actually didn't try GenWave out until a couple days ago because it simply slipped my mind. I've worked on Heartbeat on and off since Modern was announced, but that one somehow slipped by me. I was reading this thread and saw that card in a deck list, and realized that it was the perfect solution for most all of my Game 2 problems: grave hate cards, Rule of Law/Canonist, and an over-reliance on Gifts versus Dumb White Leyline. Not to mention how bonkers it is to Wave into a bunch of lands and Antelopes and gain 50+ life.
I feel like I want to play more copies of most of the cards in the sideboard. Having more GenWave and Grazing Gladehart means absolutely demolishing aggro decks on Genesis Waves. Having more GenWave-->Keiga wrecks Jund. Having more Damping Matrix really slows down Birthing Pod and Deceiver Exarch decks. Playing more countermagic is helpful for combo and control match-ups. It's just tough to cram that all in without leaving something out and punting a significant set of match-ups. Ideally, the way to fit more sideboard cards into this deck is to squeeze them into the main--that's part of why Jace Beleren is in the 60.
I don't know if I'm really ready with board plans. This deck feels like it's on a high enough power level to dominate this metagame, but I might pass on the PTQ just because I want more time to get a feel for what goes out when I bring other stuff in.
I have been testing with Cloudstone Curio. I'm in the process of overhauling the build; I woke up 30 minutes before the PTQ today and decided to wait until I have a more solidified build.
I really want to play 4 Genesis Waves in a lot of match-ups. It's the most clear-cut "I win now" card because it sets you up with more open mana by itself (as opposed to needing to leave 1GG open for a Harvest, as with Blue Sun or Counsel/PiF). I think the card needs a little more support, though; and it's definitely a risky tool against decks with countermagic.
I feel like, the more Genesis Wave becomes a part of this deck, the weaker Gifts becomes. They don't really collide too much as engines, but they share similar deck space. So far, I've been happy with Wave as more of a game 2 plan for when the Gifts engine is attacked by grave hate and dumb leyline, but it really sucks to play this deck with less than 4 Gifts Ungiven. That card is easily the most powerful draw spell for combo in this format, and a major reason for why I'm drawn to playing Heartbeat in the first place.
A resolved Genesis wave in a permanent-heavy heartbeat deck essentially serves the same function that Mind's desire did. The only difference is that you just need mana, not a large storm count.
They both let you play tons of cards off the top of your library at zero cost, if resolved with a heartbeat in play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
I agree; GenWave is very similar to Mind's Desire. The main difference is that you're trading off the storm mechanic's anti-countermagic brokenness for GenWave's ability to ignore Canonist/Rule of Law. GenWave is also generally more expensive to cast, and somewhat vulnerable to grave hate, as you're basically planning to hit Witnesses/Snapcasters and use them to pick up crucial cards in the yard. Either that, you're holding recursion in your hand and GenWave is there to both put lands/Sakuras/Heartbeat on the table in a ramp fashion while it dredges you into more spells. One way or another, you do need your graveyard to combo off with Genesis Wave, unless we can find some kind of permanent that tutors when it enters play.
Although, now that I think about it, maybe the right solution is to just play Cloudstone Curio and plan to bounce Drifts when they come into play. I just haven't hit Curios on Waves very much at all, so far--the variance has been weird like that for me. Happens.
The "EOT Blue Sun's Zenith for 5, untap and kill you easily" play has been very successful for me. It's an easier kill to set up than Past in Flames, even.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Magic Level 3 Judge
Southern United States Regional Coordinator
I have 4 Explore, 4 Search for Tomorrows, 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder so ramping that high isn't hard. I am talking about just casting Blue Sun's Zenith with lands, not with Heartbeat.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Magic Level 3 Judge
Southern United States Regional Coordinator
I would like to see this build with 12 ramp spells. Explore has been profoundly terribly for me in testing, without a large manabase or lots of cantrips.
Land
1x Ghost Quarter
4x LLanowar Wastes
2x Swamp
10x Forest
4x Tendo Ice Bridge
Sb
2x Viridian Zealot
1x Mindslaver
2x Rune Scarred Demon
4x Obstinate Baloth
2x Leyline of the void
4x Duress
Now i know this may look like an Elf combo deck ive always considered it a heartbeat deck. You to keep your lands free while you cast heartbeat of spring and begin using your doubled mana right away. this is done by abusing heritage druid.
The goal is to ramp a huge genesis wave and hit an obnixilis for lethal damage using eternal witness and the genesis wave. early harvest is there to speed things up in the even more. Turn 3-4 is the goal, it also packs alot in the way of answers for my current aggro filled meta.
btw, the tutoring permanent you were looking for lets you play without needing the graveyard is Rune-Scarred Demon, i pack two in the board for game 2 Sbed in against Leyline of the void as well as MD Viridian Zealot
i would say the deck has a 75% percent win rate and goes off around turn 4-5. Time Reversal is HILARIOUS but actually pretty amazing. reminds be alot of High Tide
I'd love to see time reversal and reforge the soul in here as well. If you're going to play the draw 7 game, might as well play both and they are semi synergistic as well as extra nasty when you've got heartbeat down + early harvest. It's not like your deck can't find the extra mountain (and you'd only really need one)!
Other than that, have you considered compulsive research over foresee? I like foresee, but costing 1 less can be relevant though maybe the discarding a land part you don't want to do?
The reason why I play foresee and I might be wrong, is because when I go off mana is Usually never a problem, and one more mana to "see" six cards I believe has a lot more value then one less mana to see three
And I like reversal because it suffles all the good spells in your graveyard back into the deck to draw again and having 5+ spells with a mana cost of 5 might be a bit risky
I gave your deck a spin. Time Reversal is definitely hilarious. Oh, and so is casting emmy just to get the extra turn and then kill them with USZ (haha). And I did not foresee the impact said card creates for the deck (hyuk hyuk). It basically fixes your draws so you can control what oracle grabs, and if you really need to reach, 6 cards deep is no joke in this build. Unfortunately, turn 5 is just too slow for this format for a straight combo deck, and you aren't running any sort of protection =< and probably can't with a build like this. It's fun, but it really can't hang (note: oracle and explore do not stack your land drops/accel your mana consistently enough for clockwork turn 4 combos, which is the bare minimum).
I agree, turn 5 is to slow. I Think the deck could have a chance to compete with real decks if you could add a good counter package. Maybe 2-3 (spell pierce/mana leak) /1 pact (for example) So that it didn't interfere with the combo to much and produce tooo dead of draws when going off.
I'm definetly am going to tinker with it a little more and play it at a local modern tourney
On Tuesday though for the lawlz
Lotus cobra is awesome in fetch heavy builds. I'm not sure this qualifies. I've been giving it a whirl, too, and even with all those cantrips, it's still pretty inconsistent. The weakest two cards so far are the explores (only good when you're going for broke) and the coiling oracles (a shame, because I really like them, too).
The mind springs are a good addition, no doubt. However, I think I'm going to give the red version a whirl. I'll start with your list, -4 misty rainforest, +2 Island, +1 forest, +1 mountain. -4 explore, +4 rampant growth (for now..I need the land directly in play and this is certain). -4 coiling oracle, +4 reforge the soul.
and for the last change, -4 foresee, +4 compulsive research. I'll see how it goldfishes.
sweet! i'm interested to see how the deck plays with red, and i made some changes to the deck to give it some protection, that has seemed to help out. I might record a match or two tomorrow for fun and post them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm probably playing this in the online PTQ tomorrow.
1. I wake up early enough in the morning and feel like playing a PTQ all day--I give this a 50/50 shot.
2. I feel confident enough after the tuning from today's grinding/testing on MTGO. I'm not playing a PTQ that I don't feel I can win.
Granted, there are a lot of games where I'm flat-out destroying my opponents on multiple levels. That's part of why this deck archetype holds a special place in my heart.
Anyways, I have been working on all kinds of builds throughout the week. I started with trying the greediest 3-color build (Red for Past In Flames, Firespout, and Ancient Grudge), and leaned heavily on Gifts. I don't really think Past in Flames is worth the third color and the strain on your manabase; it's just not necessary. Praetor's Counsel and a lot of various recursion spells will get your graveyard back, so I'm fine without PiF's inclusion. I'm going to miss the power level of Firespout for raping aggressive decks and being a functional double Time Walk in a number of match-ups--but I prefer being able to actually cast my spells than to have glittering ones.
I actually didn't try GenWave out until a couple days ago because it simply slipped my mind. I've worked on Heartbeat on and off since Modern was announced, but that one somehow slipped by me. I was reading this thread and saw that card in a deck list, and realized that it was the perfect solution for most all of my Game 2 problems: grave hate cards, Rule of Law/Canonist, and an over-reliance on Gifts versus Dumb White Leyline. Not to mention how bonkers it is to Wave into a bunch of lands and Antelopes and gain 50+ life.
This is my current list:
4 Misty Rainforest
5 Forest
5 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Island
4 Snow-Covered Island
Ramp:
4 Search For Tomorrow
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
Mana Engine:
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Early Harvest
Disruption:
4 Remand
2 Condescend
1 Wipe Away
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Jace Beleren
2 Drift of Phantasms
3 Eternal Witness
1 Revive
1 Snapcaster Mage
Bombs:
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Praetor's Counsel
2 Genesis Wave
1 Krosan Grip
1 Dismember
1 Echoing Truth
2 Damping Matrix
2 Voidslime
2 Dispel
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Grazing Gladehart
2 Keiga, the Tide Star
I feel like I want to play more copies of most of the cards in the sideboard. Having more GenWave and Grazing Gladehart means absolutely demolishing aggro decks on Genesis Waves. Having more GenWave-->Keiga wrecks Jund. Having more Damping Matrix really slows down Birthing Pod and Deceiver Exarch decks. Playing more countermagic is helpful for combo and control match-ups. It's just tough to cram that all in without leaving something out and punting a significant set of match-ups. Ideally, the way to fit more sideboard cards into this deck is to squeeze them into the main--that's part of why Jace Beleren is in the 60.
I don't know if I'm really ready with board plans. This deck feels like it's on a high enough power level to dominate this metagame, but I might pass on the PTQ just because I want more time to get a feel for what goes out when I bring other stuff in.
I really want to play 4 Genesis Waves in a lot of match-ups. It's the most clear-cut "I win now" card because it sets you up with more open mana by itself (as opposed to needing to leave 1GG open for a Harvest, as with Blue Sun or Counsel/PiF). I think the card needs a little more support, though; and it's definitely a risky tool against decks with countermagic.
They both let you play tons of cards off the top of your library at zero cost, if resolved with a heartbeat in play.
Although, now that I think about it, maybe the right solution is to just play Cloudstone Curio and plan to bounce Drifts when they come into play. I just haven't hit Curios on Waves very much at all, so far--the variance has been weird like that for me. Happens.
Southern United States Regional Coordinator
Southern United States Regional Coordinator
Southern United States Regional Coordinator
I would like to see a updated list.
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
12 Forest
8 Island
1 Mountain
Creatures
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Eternal Witness
4 Search for Tomorrow
2 Rampant Growth
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Early Harvest
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Remand
3 Gigadrowse
3 Peer Through Depths
2 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Noxious Revival
1 Banefire
1 Rude Awakening
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
Combo
4x Genesis Wave
3x Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
1x Rune Scarred Demon
3x Eternal Witness
2x Early Harvest
1x Mindslaver
4x Heartbeat of Spring
Elves/Mana Engine
4x Elvish Pioneer
4x Heritage Druid
4x Llanowar Elves
1x Viridian Zealot
4x Wood Elves
4x Farhaven Elves
Land
1x Ghost Quarter
4x LLanowar Wastes
2x Swamp
10x Forest
4x Tendo Ice Bridge
Sb
2x Viridian Zealot
1x Mindslaver
2x Rune Scarred Demon
4x Obstinate Baloth
2x Leyline of the void
4x Duress
Now i know this may look like an Elf combo deck ive always considered it a heartbeat deck. You to keep your lands free while you cast heartbeat of spring and begin using your doubled mana right away. this is done by abusing heritage druid.
The goal is to ramp a huge genesis wave and hit an obnixilis for lethal damage using eternal witness and the genesis wave. early harvest is there to speed things up in the even more. Turn 3-4 is the goal, it also packs alot in the way of answers for my current aggro filled meta.
Standard:
RUGDeadeye Combo/Midrange
UGRWBDefender Combo
Modern:
GardgaGeddon
11 Forest
4 Past in Flames
4 Early Harvest
4 Explore
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Rampant Growth
4 Manamorphose
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cultivate
4 Reforge the Soul
2 Banefire
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
Standard:
RUGDeadeye Combo/Midrange
UGRWBDefender Combo
Modern:
GardgaGeddon
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 heartbeat of spring
4 early harvest
4 coiling oracle
4 sleight of hand
4 time reversal
2 mind spring
4 foresee
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
8 islands
8 forest
i would say the deck has a 75% percent win rate and goes off around turn 4-5. Time Reversal is HILARIOUS but actually pretty amazing. reminds be alot of High Tide
Other than that, have you considered compulsive research over foresee? I like foresee, but costing 1 less can be relevant though maybe the discarding a land part you don't want to do?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.
I'm definetly am going to tinker with it a little more and play it at a local modern tourney
On Tuesday though for the lawlz
The mind springs are a good addition, no doubt. However, I think I'm going to give the red version a whirl. I'll start with your list, -4 misty rainforest, +2 Island, +1 forest, +1 mountain. -4 explore, +4 rampant growth (for now..I need the land directly in play and this is certain). -4 coiling oracle, +4 reforge the soul.
and for the last change, -4 foresee, +4 compulsive research. I'll see how it goldfishes.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!