DisDamGame: I was playing GQ and land hate a lot for a while, but I stopped and have my mana base back to using Windbrisk Heights more. One thing I have not missed using Midnight Haunting is the fact that it is more flexible to cast. While not often, it has come in handy to hold up removal mana or casting the card after a board wipe. One of the biggest consistent complaints about our deck is that it is slow and clunky. Haunting helps with that. I run a 3/2 split between Haunting and Spectral Procession. I don't miss fetching for turn 1 swamp.
I also frankly expect a rise in the use of Blood Moon sometime soon (on a side note).
You can do a lot with 3-4 paths and 2-3 doom blade :). Likewise, I would play haunting over Timely Reinforcements because of the flying alone. Timely also does find itself stranded in your hand a fair number of times if you know what you are doing.
Mirran Crusader is another sideboard card for Jund and aggro. It used to appear all of the time, but lost favor. As a budget player you could pick up a few. This will help the Jund match a lot (blocks their creatures and helps you buy time to establish a board). This would also help vs. dredge a bit.
Finally, I would replace my pithing needles in the board with Rest in Peace. Given the meta you referenced, I might even mainboard my Relics of Progenitus since they will hurt your opponents WAY more than you.
@CalvaryWolfPack - I was leaning toward Path to Exile as my next purchases anyway and now it is for certain. I was worried about losing the 3rd token from Spectral Procession as well because of how much faster the game seems to go when I resolve a Spectral on T3 as opposed to a Lingering Souls. I am going to take MichealVogler's advice on Windbrisk Heights but I think a split on Spectral and Haunting is in order.
@MichaelVogler - I am going to take your advice on Windbrisk Heights. Ghost Quarter hasn't been working for me as often as I would like and I seem to draw them more often then statistics would suggest. I have found Timely Reinforcements to be half dead most of the time and worth only the 6 life. Though when I start the game with it I always slow play into it on turn 3 usually casing Intangible Virtue on T2 instead of Raise the Alarm. I think it needs to live in my sideboard and I am going to remove Blessed Alliance to make room for it. I originally started with Relic of Progenitus in the main but found it less then useful more often then not. I only have 1 dredge/re-animator deck in my meta I accidentally added the 's' in my first post. I am also not ready to give up my Pithing Needle just yet I use them to great effect against a wide variety of decks in my meta to shutdown Planeswalkers, Manlands, Equipment, and some creatures.
Sure, he's not Bitterblossom, but he fills the same 2cmc mana slot and adds to the early game control aspect. A sleeper innthe early game, a win condition once you've casted a few Lingering Souls or Spectral Procession. Not a bad lategame topdeck either. This dude can swing a game in your favor easily, eapecially if you Windbrisk a second one away and activate your trap card during your opponent's attack step. Chances are, your opponent has only accounted for the life drain from one Blood Artist. Also great against board wipes. He actually makes them work in our favor. Nothing like playing a second or third artist and then ratchet bombing all of your own tokens to trigger his life drain for the win. Combos obscenely well with Vault of the Archangel. He never makes it onto these lists but he just synergizes so well. He even synergizes well with Bitterblossom.
I've never really tried or thought about Blood Artist, but it could be interesting. It really comes down to what's the better t2 play, anthem or this guy. The answer really is dependent on the matchup, but let's not forget that Blood Artist was a powerhouse because there were decks designed to abuse him. In our deck, we don't have sac outlets. It's entirely possible he just eats a removal spell and than we just played a 2 mana do nothing. He seems worth testing though. Like I say everytime a card is suggested, whether or not people here like it doesn't interpret in any way to whether or not it's good. That is the real question that only testing provides.
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That's a fact, We don't have very good sac outlets in this deck, although he does give more utility to Elspeth Tirel's ultimate, making it a win-more condition. Knight Errant is boring and needs a reprint badly. Blood Artist also makes Sorin, Solemn Vistor's anthem a clock of sorts. True, Blood Artist is vulnerable to removal, but I notice Hero of Bladehold acting as my removal bait in most matchups so I can work them over with juiced tokens. I would prefer get blocked and die anyway. If I'm really hurting for lifegain, activate Vault on blockers to keep me in the game while dealing player damage. He works wonders in my current meta, I hope somebody else tries him and achieves some success.
I ended up cutting Blood Artist because he just isn't as relevant as Tidehollow Sculler or an anthem. He forces you into a midrange strategy which is counterintuitive. Currently running this list and I can't wait to get a set of Godless Shrine. Tired of being screwed by Isolated Chapel and Windbrisk. My early game is usually awkward as I try and deal with them. Will cut the ETB lands down to only 4x and see how it goes. 2x Fetid Heath and 4x Godless Shrine next payday.
Land (24)
4x Caves of Koilos
1x Concealed Courtyard
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Isolated Chapel
5x Plains
1x Shambling Vent
3x Swamp
2x Vault of the Archangel
4x Windbrisk Heights
Enchantment (6)
2x Honor of the Pure
4x Intangible Virtue
Creature (2)
2x Tidehollow Sculler
Instant (9)
1x Anguished Unmaking
4x Path to Exile
3x Raise the Alarm
1x Zealous Persecution
Ended up trading out all of my ETB tapped lands but 4x and subbed in 4x plains and a swamp.
Deck went off without a hitch both games today.
Played against a juiced-up battle for zendikar event deck, ironically containing a couple of blood artist. It's the B/G one that sacks construct tokens for mana.
Early game I removed all of his sac outlets, pathed his creatures, and scullered him twice. Turn 6 I swung with Hero of Bladehold lifelinking 28.
Second game went similarly, except I used Sorin to turn Gideon into a 6/5 indestructable vampire, which we thought was funny.
The next game was a 3v3 that quickly became a lopsided 2v1, me being 1. One ran interference with counterspells on my spectrals and the other beat on me with haste creatures for a couple of turns. Once vigilance and lifelink was achieved on all creatures and tokens the game was over pretty quickly, me ending at 33 life.
For me, it's just proof that this deck really suffers from bad land draws and just how conditional it is. If played right, though, it's up there in terms of solid creature decks in modern.
If you want the board presence when it counts, you will take some player damage like any other fair deck in the format would.
Yeah, i'm on your train right now.
I'll cut Heights and 1 Vent as soon as my Concealed Courtyard arrives.
The immense Drawback of coming into play tapped doesn't outweigh there Upsides. Shambling Vent is so much of a lategame Threat that i just don't want more than 2 of it.
Just died to bolt too many times.
Round 1:
Vs. Mono-black devo with pack rats
Went 2-0 because he was overwhelmed and was confused where to use sadistic sacrament
Round 2:
Vs. G/B elves
Went 1-2 , unable to find an answer to storming elves and burning shaman of the pack
Round 3:
Vs. Mono-black korlash
Went 2-0
Very good duress targets, he did not have any answer to swarming tokens and life gain
Round 4:
Vs. RDW
went 2-1
All those life links went over even in the presence of skullcrack, you just have to raise them and win the curve, thanks to those windswept(no budget for marshes)
Round 5:
Vs. Tempered steel Affinity
Went 1-2
Well, no significant sides coz i was not expecting the presence of such in our area
Thinking of running mardu midrange. My buddies are wise to my B/W tokens shenanigans and they're maindecking hate for our decks. Using Nahiri's ultimate to cheat out Emrakul in a multiplayer game sounds fun.
Fellows, i must admit it's time to abandon this deck.
Here's why:
Fighting Tier 3 strategies:
Weeks ago i explained that Modern Tier 1 Decks divide into 2 categories:
The Aggro'ish stuff and the Midrange / Control-Shell. Both of it can be described as healthy Matchups for BW tokens.
I mentioned too that Tier 2 Decks are crappy MU's most of the time.
A good deck is determined by beating Tier 2 and 3 Decks at a constant level.
These decks like UB Mill, 8 Rack, Ponza, Skred Red, Delver, heck even Soul Sisters!
Buuut...Tokens cannot be tweaked to do so. We're missing good answers (abrupt decay, vindicate),
good removal (Bolt) and will neber be able to become a Deck that constantly races.
We got super-great Hatecards in White, but occasionaly they doesn't matter.
Brewing
Yeah, we are on-a-budget, so brewing is nice and welcome.
But the MOdern Format doesn't reward us for Brewing - maybe Brewing is the Hero Modern needs, but not the one it deserves. It never had in teh past couple of years.
And brewing has it's limits. In a matter of time and being literally "burned-out" by constantly brewing and tweaking.
I just want to head for a tournament and being not in-need of tweaking and fixing my deck to get a fighting chance.
It just sucks. The deck is able to perform well, don't misunderstand me.
But it's a ton of work!
And after brewing and tweaking Decks for like 3 years now (because of budget constraints) i'm tired.
I just want to pick a deck, play some matches and have fun - and this doesn't fit the bill with BW tokens.
So i'm sorry for lettin' you down, but i spent enough free time and frustrating Matches with Brews to stick with this deck.
Hope you guys perform well w/ the deck, but i must drop it and let it be.
So, just for fun sake i packed Wasteland Strangler today heading towards my last rounds of BW Tokens.
What should i say...it's great. This is the one Card you should aim to brew around with.
Same wavelength man. I can't wait to have access to bolt and helix. Even with Path, Thoughtseize, and IoK, some of the best removal available, this deck can't always keep up with other decks that cost half as much. I've been running B/W Tokens for a couple of years now and it seems we will never get that card or the banning that makes this deck competitive. I will still use B/W Tokens casually, but I'm not commited to paying out for the fetchlands and Auriok Champions. Unfortunately, my B/W Tokens deck will forever remain "budget".
Basically one card has me wanting to jump ship: Kolaghan's Command
These are all the same reasons I left the deck as well. In due time we should have what we need to fight the metagame. While Modern has evolved, BW Tokens has been unable to evolve with it. It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
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If you got serious interest in Midrange-Decks, check this out: Abzan Midrange
BOOM!!!
This is teh new Junk-Midrange Brew of mine, for everybody tihnkerin' to get into serious modern and like to abuse Lingering souls.
Semi-Budget, but pretty good idea. Strangler, Relic, Voice, Decay, Path, Souls, Rhino...in all seriousness a tight budget-brew!!!
So I opened a Battle for Zendikar booster and pulled a Hallowed Fountain. To humor myself, I traded it and a few other mythics in for 2x Bitterblossom, 2x Godless Shrine, and a Fetid Heath.
Played a couple of games last night and people hated me because I made them discard every turn. T5 swing with Hero of B. + Zealous Persecution + Intangible Virtue is devastating.
I digress, I'll still probably trade this deck in to run Mardu Midrange.
There's an interesting Mardu tokens brew that cropped up on MTGGoldfish a few days ago. It seems interesting.
I've been thinking lately about what we're doing wrong. From what I can figure we're just too slow, and ironically I think playing black is the problem. It offers nothing but hand attack and Bitterblossom. My thought is what if we switched to a much more aggressive strategy rather than slowly applying pressure? I might brew up RW Tokens and test that to see if that would win more. If anybody has ideas PM me. Perhaps we can still salvage this strategy.
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I also frankly expect a rise in the use of Blood Moon sometime soon (on a side note).
You can do a lot with 3-4 paths and 2-3 doom blade :). Likewise, I would play haunting over Timely Reinforcements because of the flying alone. Timely also does find itself stranded in your hand a fair number of times if you know what you are doing.
Mirran Crusader is another sideboard card for Jund and aggro. It used to appear all of the time, but lost favor. As a budget player you could pick up a few. This will help the Jund match a lot (blocks their creatures and helps you buy time to establish a board). This would also help vs. dredge a bit.
Finally, I would replace my pithing needles in the board with Rest in Peace. Given the meta you referenced, I might even mainboard my Relics of Progenitus since they will hurt your opponents WAY more than you.
I echo the sentiment on Inquisition/Thoughtseize.
I am super stoked to hear more.
Today i ran a 2-1 at my FNM. Beat Death's Shadow Zoo 2-1, lost to UWR Ascendancy 0-2 and won Eldrazi & Taxes 2-1.
Green @ it's best
@MichaelVogler - I am going to take your advice on Windbrisk Heights. Ghost Quarter hasn't been working for me as often as I would like and I seem to draw them more often then statistics would suggest. I have found Timely Reinforcements to be half dead most of the time and worth only the 6 life. Though when I start the game with it I always slow play into it on turn 3 usually casing Intangible Virtue on T2 instead of Raise the Alarm. I think it needs to live in my sideboard and I am going to remove Blessed Alliance to make room for it. I originally started with Relic of Progenitus in the main but found it less then useful more often then not. I only have 1 dredge/re-animator deck in my meta I accidentally added the 's' in my first post. I am also not ready to give up my Pithing Needle just yet
Thanks for the replies guys! I plan on running the above list: -2 Timely Reinforcements, -1 Spectral Procession, -3 Ghost Quarter and +3 Midnight Haunting, +3 Windbrisk Heights in the main and -2 Blessed Alliance, +2 Timely Reinforcements, +1 Anguished Unmaking, +2 Lost Legacy in the sideboard.
Sure, he's not Bitterblossom, but he fills the same 2cmc mana slot and adds to the early game control aspect. A sleeper innthe early game, a win condition once you've casted a few Lingering Souls or Spectral Procession. Not a bad lategame topdeck either. This dude can swing a game in your favor easily, eapecially if you Windbrisk a second one away and activate your trap card during your opponent's attack step. Chances are, your opponent has only accounted for the life drain from one Blood Artist. Also great against board wipes. He actually makes them work in our favor. Nothing like playing a second or third artist and then ratchet bombing all of your own tokens to trigger his life drain for the win. Combos obscenely well with Vault of the Archangel. He never makes it onto these lists but he just synergizes so well. He even synergizes well with Bitterblossom.
Any cards from Kaladesh worth testing?
Green @ it's best
Land (24)
4x Caves of Koilos
1x Concealed Courtyard
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Isolated Chapel
5x Plains
1x Shambling Vent
3x Swamp
2x Vault of the Archangel
4x Windbrisk Heights
Enchantment (6)
2x Honor of the Pure
4x Intangible Virtue
Creature (2)
2x Tidehollow Sculler
Instant (9)
1x Anguished Unmaking
4x Path to Exile
3x Raise the Alarm
1x Zealous Persecution
Sorcery (15)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession
3x Thoughtseize
Planeswalker (4)
1x Elspeth Tirel
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Sideboard
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Harsh Sustenance
2x Hero of Bladehold
2x Torpor Orb
1x Murderous Cut
1x Raise the Alarm
3x Tragic Slip
2x Zealous Persecution
Deck went off without a hitch both games today.
Played against a juiced-up battle for zendikar event deck, ironically containing a couple of blood artist. It's the B/G one that sacks construct tokens for mana.
Early game I removed all of his sac outlets, pathed his creatures, and scullered him twice. Turn 6 I swung with Hero of Bladehold lifelinking 28.
Second game went similarly, except I used Sorin to turn Gideon into a 6/5 indestructable vampire, which we thought was funny.
The next game was a 3v3 that quickly became a lopsided 2v1, me being 1. One ran interference with counterspells on my spectrals and the other beat on me with haste creatures for a couple of turns. Once vigilance and lifelink was achieved on all creatures and tokens the game was over pretty quickly, me ending at 33 life.
For me, it's just proof that this deck really suffers from bad land draws and just how conditional it is. If played right, though, it's up there in terms of solid creature decks in modern.
If you want the board presence when it counts, you will take some player damage like any other fair deck in the format would.
I'll cut Heights and 1 Vent as soon as my Concealed Courtyard arrives.
The immense Drawback of coming into play tapped doesn't outweigh there Upsides.
Shambling Vent is so much of a lategame Threat that i just don't want more than 2 of it.
Just died to bolt too many times.
Green @ it's best
Tourney report as of yesterday:
Round 1:
Vs. Mono-black devo with pack rats
Went 2-0 because he was overwhelmed and was confused where to use sadistic sacrament
Round 2:
Vs. G/B elves
Went 1-2 , unable to find an answer to storming elves and burning shaman of the pack
Round 3:
Vs. Mono-black korlash
Went 2-0
Very good duress targets, he did not have any answer to swarming tokens and life gain
Round 4:
Vs. RDW
went 2-1
All those life links went over even in the presence of skullcrack, you just have to raise them and win the curve, thanks to those windswept(no budget for marshes)
Round 5:
Vs. Tempered steel Affinity
Went 1-2
Well, no significant sides coz i was not expecting the presence of such in our area
Ended averagely, 3-2.
Here's why:
Fighting Tier 3 strategies:
Weeks ago i explained that Modern Tier 1 Decks divide into 2 categories:
The Aggro'ish stuff and the Midrange / Control-Shell. Both of it can be described as healthy Matchups for BW tokens.
I mentioned too that Tier 2 Decks are crappy MU's most of the time.
A good deck is determined by beating Tier 2 and 3 Decks at a constant level.
These decks like UB Mill, 8 Rack, Ponza, Skred Red, Delver, heck even Soul Sisters!
Buuut...Tokens cannot be tweaked to do so. We're missing good answers (abrupt decay, vindicate),
good removal (Bolt) and will neber be able to become a Deck that constantly races.
We got super-great Hatecards in White, but occasionaly they doesn't matter.
Brewing
Yeah, we are on-a-budget, so brewing is nice and welcome.
But the MOdern Format doesn't reward us for Brewing - maybe Brewing is the Hero Modern needs, but not the one it deserves. It never had in teh past couple of years.
And brewing has it's limits. In a matter of time and being literally "burned-out" by constantly brewing and tweaking.
I just want to head for a tournament and being not in-need of tweaking and fixing my deck to get a fighting chance.
It just sucks. The deck is able to perform well, don't misunderstand me.
But it's a ton of work!
And after brewing and tweaking Decks for like 3 years now (because of budget constraints) i'm tired.
I just want to pick a deck, play some matches and have fun - and this doesn't fit the bill with BW tokens.
So i'm sorry for lettin' you down, but i spent enough free time and frustrating Matches with Brews to stick with this deck.
Hope you guys perform well w/ the deck, but i must drop it and let it be.
Green @ it's best
What should i say...it's great. This is the one Card you should aim to brew around with.
It does so many things, it's crazy. I packed a playset Tidehollow Sculler + Relic of Progenitus and it just felt good.
Green @ it's best
Basically one card has me wanting to jump ship: Kolaghan's Command
Abzan Midrange
BOOM!!!
This is teh new Junk-Midrange Brew of mine, for everybody tihnkerin' to get into serious modern and like to abuse Lingering souls.
Semi-Budget, but pretty good idea. Strangler, Relic, Voice, Decay, Path, Souls, Rhino...in all seriousness a tight budget-brew!!!
Green @ it's best
Played a couple of games last night and people hated me because I made them discard every turn. T5 swing with Hero of B. + Zealous Persecution + Intangible Virtue is devastating.
I digress, I'll still probably trade this deck in to run Mardu Midrange.
I don't think it'll perform strictly good against Tron.
But we got the better Tools in Eldrazi to be competitive in BW-Colors.
Green @ it's best
I've been thinking lately about what we're doing wrong. From what I can figure we're just too slow, and ironically I think playing black is the problem. It offers nothing but hand attack and Bitterblossom. My thought is what if we switched to a much more aggressive strategy rather than slowly applying pressure? I might brew up RW Tokens and test that to see if that would win more. If anybody has ideas PM me. Perhaps we can still salvage this strategy.