Tweaked around the non budget list and worked with some cards I already have to come up with what I think can work (along with taking my lgs meta into account for sideboard). Let me know what you all think. Anything we'd leave out of the MB now?
I personally would cut Phyrexian Arena. Its double black mana cost is really awkward with Spectral. Is there a lot of Dredge, Affinity, Elves, and other super-weeny strategies? If there aren't, I could see cutting Zealous Persecution and moving Arbiters to the main because they are so disruptive. On the flip side, they are pretty great as a surprise sideboard card. It's really up to you, and the best choice isn't usually obvious until you play the deck and see how it performs.
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I'm going to give it a shot in a couple weeks (modern is only every other Monday at my lgs). There is a lot of snapcasters and at least 2 people that play soul sisters which is why I liked the zealous persecution. I will definitely be playing around with it. How many problems have you guys run into with card draw? It seemed like it might be a problem which is why I threw in the arena.
You will definitely draw a lot of lands with no fetches. I wonder if going down on lands is a good idea. I've never tried it, but maybe it will help with the flooding.
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You will definitely draw a lot of lands with no fetches. I wonder if going down on lands is a good idea. I've never tried it, but maybe it will help with the flooding.
I might give it a shot on mtgo and go to 22 lands in exchange for 2 more zealous persecutions? I'll report back if I get the chance to try it.
Back again, my shop skipped a week since the owner was on vacation, didn't have a chance to play until last night. As far as card changes to the deck, I'm still a tad uncertain as to exactly where to guide my sideboard. Every week I end up seeing at least 2 different decks (usually 3 or 4) and don't really have a hold on my local meta yet. As of right now, the only thing I'm really feeling needs changing is bringing my three Tidehollow Scullers back to main board. Despite having 3 Inquisitions and 3 Duress', I was either entirely missing draws when i needed them, or bricking by drawing into two in a row when my opponent had 1-2 cards in hand. Seems that consistent hand attack is the only thing my local meta really calls for at this time. Beyond that, while I'm rather fixated on the card at this point, I do know Timely Reinforcements would have bought me at least one extra turn in three separate rounds in two different games, so having that in my sideboard would've been helpful. Last thing to note is I managed to snag a pair of Promise of Bunrei for $3 to experiment with.
I am pulling both Hero and Captain semi-frequently, and getting use off them, but for now they're going to stay on sideboard to make room for my Scullers.
First game of the night was against Scapeshift. I got blown out two rounds in a row. Not enough Ghost Quarters in the world to make a difference, unfortunately. Is there anything we can do beside hope to pull Ghost Quarter and (in my case) eat every mountain in sight so their Valakut doesn't pop you for 21 damage in one turn?
Next game was a loss, but enjoyable. Played against Bogles, and me and my opponent were having a grand time of counting and recounting counters and trading chumps until he finally put me in a lose-lose scenario game three where I could neither produce another blocker or dig myself out of the whole with a lifegain ETB from my Soul Warden. We both enjoyed the games though, each round were were chiding our decks for either bricking or mana screwing us, so we had a good laugh. I went 1-2 in the rounds for this game.
Third was against Affinity, and that's where all my best draws of the night were used up. First game I had 3 anthems out by turn 8 IIRC (1 Honor of the Pure, 2 Intangible Virtue), while producing a steady stream of Spirits as well, and simple overwhelmed him. Second game I boarded in my 3 Katakis, but never drew them and still won. He bricked really badly and I won via a trickle of spirits and soldiers with no anthems. This was my only win, and I went 2-0. I rather liked his deck though, it was based around a bunch of small artifact creatures and played a much faster game than an affinity deck I saw two weeks ago that ran out of table space because there were so many counter-laden cards on the table. He said he only recently bought the deck, so I hope to replay him once he's played it more, as we both agreed the matchup was close sans his bad draws.
Last game was against Mono Green Elves, and it blatantly out-tokened me. I was starved for mana while he was playing 2-3 elves per turn on turn 3. I honestly have no idea what to do in this matchup. He swings wide, I chump blick his dorks, he uses Pendlehaven to pump one so my trade is only at 50% efficiency and I lose my blockers, then take 6-10 damage. Barely drew any Paths (which I feel are dead draws since at best case you hit a mana dork only to have it replaced by a forest, so you're only really removing half of the issue), failed to draw Dismember or Ghost Quarter in game 2, and was starved on only 3 mana sources game two as well. If there was a game last night Timely Reinforcements was necessary, it was this game.
I also went 2-1 in a tabletop game against Soul Sisters prior to the night's games starting.
Here's my revised list as of now. I'm going to be picking up the 2 Thoughtseizes I still need shortly.
Timely Reinforcements is pretty good against any aggro deck. I liked Burrenton Forge-Tender for blocking and in a pinch can counter a Bolt. Just try to stick Sorin and you should win.
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like mentioned earlier Collective Brutality is good.
Now i picked up the next piece of fine tech, that relates to the nowadays super-fast Meta: Darkblast
Hoses Robots, Infect, Tokens, Bob, Tiago, Nexus all day long.
Seems to be the missing piece to deal with all the "Oops, i win on turn 2 Decks".
Edit:
Like i expected, Darkblast is ridiculous busted.
I screwed a Bant Eldrazi Player three times this evening by shooting his Noble Hierarch.
I can definitely see how Collective Brutality is solid. I'm wondering how often you find you're going for two or three modes while having cards you can afford to discard for the escalate. I assume the ideal two cards to discard would be Duress (or equivalent) and Lingering Souls? The only time I ever have found I'm pulling totally dead cards is if I already have 5+ lands, a Sorin after getting one to stick on the table, or a string of anthems in a row with now way of putting down tokens.
I'm just worried about consistency. I'm concerned about the frequency in which you're caught in a catch-22 wherein the full card value costs you too many resources while not going all-in on value results in an inefficient play compared to other cards we can include on our main or side board. I assume you run it in your side board?
To change topic a moment, wow does Kambal, Consul of Allocation seem perfect for combo and burn hate. Get a single anthem down and it's out of bolt range. Even if it ends up out of budget price range, I can totally see that finding a potential home in Tokens, or any BW deck that can find room for him for that matter. I was browsing the primer in the Developing forum, and Kambal combined with Concealed Courtyard really seems to be providing us with some solid new kit pieces.
I think I'll experiment with it if I find any copies for relatively cheap. I'm not super comfortable dropping ~$4 per copy to give it a few weeks try in my local meta right now though.
I just realized something between classes today: shouldn't every list be running Gather the Townsfolk in place of Raise the Alarm? It's literally the same card except the former can produce three more tokens if we're real low on life. I've never found the fact that Raise the Alarm is an Instant has been super important for my games - if they can counter Gather the Townsfolk on our turn, they were also able to counter Raise the Alarm. However, in a "make blockers or die" scenario, we invest the same mana but get three extra emergency chump blockers. Only other argument against the choice I can think of is the rare case of a "All creatures get -X/-X" anthem they can play/currently have in play, but again, if we don't have Virtue or Honor in the field to counteract that enemy anthem, the tokens from Raise the Alarm simply come into play on their turn and immediately die. I see it being the better choice in about every game that ends up being on the grindier side. Has anyone done any play testing where the Alarm playset was fully replaced with one of Gather?
Gather is usually fine, but we don't need RtA 5-8 in most circumstances. I think in a die-hard aggro list it could see play because it just floods the board. As for Brutality it has already proven itself in Modern. I see no reason why we shouldn't run it and I will update the primer to reflect our findings over the weekend. On a side note, most of the GP and the World Championship lists have been far more controlling lately. I feel that if you don't have Bitterblossom we should play more like a control deck because we have efficient answers and virtual card advantage. I also really like Elspeth, Sun's Champion to grind out the late game in these kind of lists. Anybody ever try this? It might be the way to go.
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4 Caves of Koilos
2 Godless Shrine
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Isolated Chapel
8 Plains
2 Shambling Vent
1 Swamp
2 Windbrisk Heights
Planeswalkers
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Doom Blade
4 Path to Exile
2 Zealous Persecution
4 Intangible Virtue
1 Phyrexian Arena
Token Producers
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
Discard Methods
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Disenchant
1 Phyrexian Arena
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Extirpate
3 Celestial Flare
4 Leonin Arbiter
Considering the Leonin Arbiter's. Overall, what do you guys think?
Yo want Gas. Maybe Secure the Wastes for Lategame?
Looks much more appealing.
Green @ it's best
I like it, I have 2 of them laying around too, so I could definitely throw those in.
I might give it a shot on mtgo and go to 22 lands in exchange for 2 more zealous persecutions? I'll report back if I get the chance to try it.
I am pulling both Hero and Captain semi-frequently, and getting use off them, but for now they're going to stay on sideboard to make room for my Scullers.
First game of the night was against Scapeshift. I got blown out two rounds in a row. Not enough Ghost Quarters in the world to make a difference, unfortunately. Is there anything we can do beside hope to pull Ghost Quarter and (in my case) eat every mountain in sight so their Valakut doesn't pop you for 21 damage in one turn?
Next game was a loss, but enjoyable. Played against Bogles, and me and my opponent were having a grand time of counting and recounting counters and trading chumps until he finally put me in a lose-lose scenario game three where I could neither produce another blocker or dig myself out of the whole with a lifegain ETB from my Soul Warden. We both enjoyed the games though, each round were were chiding our decks for either bricking or mana screwing us, so we had a good laugh. I went 1-2 in the rounds for this game.
Third was against Affinity, and that's where all my best draws of the night were used up. First game I had 3 anthems out by turn 8 IIRC (1 Honor of the Pure, 2 Intangible Virtue), while producing a steady stream of Spirits as well, and simple overwhelmed him. Second game I boarded in my 3 Katakis, but never drew them and still won. He bricked really badly and I won via a trickle of spirits and soldiers with no anthems. This was my only win, and I went 2-0. I rather liked his deck though, it was based around a bunch of small artifact creatures and played a much faster game than an affinity deck I saw two weeks ago that ran out of table space because there were so many counter-laden cards on the table. He said he only recently bought the deck, so I hope to replay him once he's played it more, as we both agreed the matchup was close sans his bad draws.
Last game was against Mono Green Elves, and it blatantly out-tokened me. I was starved for mana while he was playing 2-3 elves per turn on turn 3. I honestly have no idea what to do in this matchup. He swings wide, I chump blick his dorks, he uses Pendlehaven to pump one so my trade is only at 50% efficiency and I lose my blockers, then take 6-10 damage. Barely drew any Paths (which I feel are dead draws since at best case you hit a mana dork only to have it replaced by a forest, so you're only really removing half of the issue), failed to draw Dismember or Ghost Quarter in game 2, and was starved on only 3 mana sources game two as well. If there was a game last night Timely Reinforcements was necessary, it was this game.
I also went 2-1 in a tabletop game against Soul Sisters prior to the night's games starting.
Here's my revised list as of now. I'm going to be picking up the 2 Thoughtseizes I still need shortly.
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Creature (3)
3 Tidehollow Sculler
Sorcery (14)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
Instant (9)
4 Path to Exile
4 Raise the Alarm
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Honor of the Pure
4 Intangible Virtue
Land (24)
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Shambling Vent
4 Isolated Chapel
6 Plains
6 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Captain of the Watch
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Dismember
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Relic of Progenitus
My Modern Playlist:
BWTokens | GBElves
Is there an answer for the speed of Naya Zoo?
like mentioned earlier Collective Brutality is good.
Now i picked up the next piece of fine tech, that relates to the nowadays super-fast Meta:
Darkblast
Hoses Robots, Infect, Tokens, Bob, Tiago, Nexus all day long.
Seems to be the missing piece to deal with all the "Oops, i win on turn 2 Decks".
Edit:
Like i expected, Darkblast is ridiculous busted.
I screwed a Bant Eldrazi Player three times this evening by shooting his Noble Hierarch.
Match 1 i choose to Thoughtseize him and saw a 1-Lander with Hierarch and a whole bunch of Action.
I picked Ancient Stirrings and Zealous persecution'ed (!!!) his lone Hierarch Turn 2.
This is what i'm talking 'bout experience. Trying to screw him was the only "real" plan - racing Eldrazi is a dead end.
Green @ it's best
Collective Brutality is seriously teh best card.
Shooting Goblin Guide, picking Atarka's Command and draining 2 life is usually too much for tehm to come back if we don't drew horribly.
Green @ it's best
My Modern Playlist:
BWTokens | GBElves
Glisterner Elf into Become Immense anyone?
Goblin Guide and your answer is Thoughtseize? GG.
These are all just possible applications.
Scared of Scapeshift? Discarding Anger of the Gods + 2 Life gives you another turn.
Just some examples...
Green @ it's best
To change topic a moment, wow does Kambal, Consul of Allocation seem perfect for combo and burn hate. Get a single anthem down and it's out of bolt range. Even if it ends up out of budget price range, I can totally see that finding a potential home in Tokens, or any BW deck that can find room for him for that matter. I was browsing the primer in the Developing forum, and Kambal combined with Concealed Courtyard really seems to be providing us with some solid new kit pieces.
My Modern Playlist:
BWTokens | GBElves
It's accels at nothing really well, but does many things at least at an ok'ish level.
Green @ it's best
I just realized something between classes today: shouldn't every list be running Gather the Townsfolk in place of Raise the Alarm? It's literally the same card except the former can produce three more tokens if we're real low on life. I've never found the fact that Raise the Alarm is an Instant has been super important for my games - if they can counter Gather the Townsfolk on our turn, they were also able to counter Raise the Alarm. However, in a "make blockers or die" scenario, we invest the same mana but get three extra emergency chump blockers. Only other argument against the choice I can think of is the rare case of a "All creatures get -X/-X" anthem they can play/currently have in play, but again, if we don't have Virtue or Honor in the field to counteract that enemy anthem, the tokens from Raise the Alarm simply come into play on their turn and immediately die. I see it being the better choice in about every game that ends up being on the grindier side. Has anyone done any play testing where the Alarm playset was fully replaced with one of Gather?
My Modern Playlist:
BWTokens | GBElves
Green @ it's best
BUT now, i'm sold on it.
Went 5-1, just lost to Ensnaring Bridge this week.
UWr is a cake-walk. Jund a great MU too.
Robots, Infect, Burn - Super-solid
Just changing a Surgical Ectraction for Shriekmaw in the side right now.
Handles Eldrazi 2-for-1 (best case) or just being a Go for the Throat seems perfectly fine.
Beat Dredge today pretty easily. No problems in sight here.
Right now this deck is a great Meta-Call. Win percentage above 60%.
Green @ it's best