Taking this deck to my first PPTQ, and was wondering what could sub in for Path to Exile. I'm slowly building it up, but dropping 40ish dollars on four cards is a little bit much. Would Anguished Unmaking sub in fairly decently?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Thunder doesn't always mean rain. Sometimes it means ruin."
I found the secret to the aggro matchups: Auriok Champion. Unfortunately, she is ridiculously expensive. Perhaps it's time for Soul Warden to get back in there? What are your thoughts and testing results?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
i put BW tokens aside for now, because i just died to random topdecks and frequently no real action on board way too much.
The big problem i suffered has been the lack of real good 2CMC-Drops.
If you ain't got no Champion or Bitterblossom, there's nothing really good here.
Raise the Alarm is fine, but that's it. Relying heavily on CMC 3 Spells is often too slow to brawl with the Top Decks.
Burn is like 30-70 for me, Zoo is difficult, Affinity is non-existant in my local Meta, Infect pops up heavily now.
There are also a huge amount Tier 2- 3 Decks that i can't handle pretty well with Tokens.
W/o Champion + Blossom the deck loses a lot of it's power.
It does, but it can still hold ot's own VERY well. Perhaps there are two drops we are missing? Post suggestions and I'll see what I can't come up with as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
I don't see how changing the anthem effects to supplement functionally five creatures is better than Sorin and IV which helps all of our creatures in Sorin's case and all minus five in IV's case. I really don't know but the aggressive strategy is definitely the way to go. The deck has certainly gotten worse with the meta becoming so aggressive.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
I pack 3 Sorin, 1 Gideon and 4x IV for today's FNM.
Maybe i'm the luckiest guy for now because i picked up a Playset Bitterblossom yesterday for 75Euro (approx $84)
I talked to a buddy on wednesday after playing Tokens and discussed
some problematic Matchups. Especially Scapeshift and Tron.
Blow up Lands, extract them. At first glance i denied his idea, but today it seems pretty appealing to me.
A turn 1 Discard-Spell against Combo-Decks + Extraction is nothing to joke about.
Scapeshift is rather problematic. Game one we might get ahead on life and put ourselves out of Valakut range. Perhaps the Extraction route is the way to go? Tron is just miserable anyway.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
So, I just started playing the last week, and my friend was nice enough to order me an Event deck. I've already began upgrading some pieces, and am aiming for the following end result before I consider particularly expensive playsets:
After I manage to reach that point, the first things I'm eyeing are playsets of Godless Shrine (which I currently line up to replace Isolated Chapel) and Bitterblossom.
Anyways, my first goal list should make it somewhat obvious I've been lurking the thread somewhat religiously doing homework and cobbling together this frankenstein's monster-esque list. Based on what I've read, various hate seems to be best tailored to one's local meta, which for me seems to be varied from my first night's experience (I played against a Kiki combo deck, a tron variant, and a what I presumed to be a BW control deck, besides my friend playing Merfolk, and me seeing both Affinity and aggro decks also) so I expect to need to feel that out as I learn. My friend says 4 Path to Exile and 6-8 hand attack cards (Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize in this case) is a good baseline.
One thing I've been mulling over in to do in the far future for the deck is adding in some fetch lands, particularly the costly but perfect for the deck Marsh Flats. Besides my inexperience and rough match ups, I found even after swapping out the two City of Brass for some Shambling Vents, I always felt mana screwed, particularly by Windbrisk Heights. Between feeling unable to make plays due to always being starved for mana, and shooting myself in the foot by making poor choices as to what to throw into the hideaway, I've wondered if Windbrisk really worth keeping in the list at all. Another thing I've been considering is Vault of the Archangel, as the effect seems good enough to run more than a singleton of the card, however I have my inhibitions about doing so, since the cost of activation is somewhat steep based on my experience, and the value is determined by how many tokens I have on the board. Does anyone have experience running multiples of it on mainboard? The short of it is, what would you figure is the ideal set of lands to run if money wasn't an object?
So about Captain of the Watch. I was walking out of my shop at the end of the night and they caught my eye. While the card is quite slow, my consideration is that, based on what type of deck the opponent is running, I figure one either has to play the aggressor or control. Captain seems perfect for when you're on the more control side of things. For a CMC of 6, one card is giving you a 3/3 creature, 3 soldier tokens, and an Intangible Virtue for all soldier creatures on your side of the board. I find it's something that might be worth experimenting with, though I think 3 on sideboard might be much. My guess is it might be a singleton or pair I swap with Hero of Bladehold as I sideboard if the games go longer. The idea is similar to bringing Timely Reinforcements onto the mainboard if I'm playing against a much faster deck, though my instinct is it's not likely to work as smoothly.
I've also been wondering where Bitterblossom could even fit in in this list, should I decide to go ahead and buy a playset. Based on what I've read, my guess is jumping in on Bitterblossom might warrant bringing Soul Warden back onto the mainboard until I could procure the more expensive Auriok Champion?
I would replace Caves with the Shrines because Caves is constant damage, which we don't want in our aggressive metagame. I wiuld actually go down to maybe 4 Swamps in favor of Plains because we never need double black but always want triple white. As for Captain, what matchups would she be useful in? I really can't see her being great enough to board in against very many decks, but I could be wrong. Experiment and brew!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
Captain is definitely an experiment. It piqued my interest when I saw it and while the CMC is certainly steep for the card, I see it being another late game potential card for those matches where my opponent is somewhat midrange - somewhere slower than burn and aggro, but faster than a really control-oriented deck that is intent on biding time until it can find and drop a few really sizable bombs. My expectation is that, even before testing, I figure that 3 is likely too many do to how slow she is. I'm still excited to begin testing it out though, as the card seems to be enough value for the cost; it's more a question of finding a sweet spot where I'm in a game that I can last long enough to be able to pay the CMC and have that value either finish the game for me, or swing the game enough that it could bring me back into it.
Another question: Relic of Progenitus vs Grafdigger's Cage. Am I right in assessing the former to be the stronger of the two in terms of graveyard hate? I figure that the ability to sacrifice the artifact to exile all graveyards and draw a card outweighs the mere lockdown of all graveyards the latter provides.
That's a simple question with a ridiculously complicated answer that is tough to explain. Because Relic completely exiles, it deals with cards that care about what's in the yard, like Goyf. Also, drawing a card isn't irrelevant either. However, Cage locks down libraries as well, so Kiki-Chord can just bite the dust. Cage also doesn't stop some interactions that would be stoped by the cards just being exiled, like Living End. I would run Relic in a vacuum and Cage in addition if I know there's a good chance of seeing those kind of matchups.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
Lost to Eldritch Evolution-Brew and U Tron, won vs. UWR Nahiri and Naya Company.
Went the way i expected:
The Matchups i am favored i was really heavy favored, the ones i was backstepping i was really always behind.
Tron is always a huge beating on us. UWR Nahiri feels like a joke. What was this Eldritch Evolution deck doing? I've heard rumblings of potential decks but none have come to light.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
So the Meta is settling once more, dividing into 2 big Columns:
The Aggro-thing (Robots, Burn, Infect, Dredge, Zoo) and the Midrange-/Control-Shell (UWR Nahiri, Jund).
Besides that, dedicated Combo is at an all-time low (good for this deck!) but on the other hand Aggro is
becoming faster and faster. It looks like everybody and his mom is tuning his deck for the Turn 3 Kill.
I expect Zealous Persecution to be a role-player once dredge
makes huge waves. So the Tier 1 Decks are about to be manageable for BW Tokens.
Still there are plenty of Tier 2 Decks that gives me headaches. Sideboard is no more than 15 CArds and it
feels like i cannot dedicate too much space for all the "Random Decks" durdling around this format.
The Deck lacks broad answers (hello Anguished Unmaking) for every possible Problem out there.
I still die to bad topdecks and no real way to draw Cards.
Thank you for the metagame breakdown. The coloumns analogy is spot on with the metagame. The issue with dredge becoming a thing is the matchup isn't really in our favor unless we hit a RiP. Brutality might have potential, and it's worth testing. Also for our no-fetchland friends, it gives extra value to drawing more lands, something that could be explored with this deck. Dying to bad topdecks is the price we pay for playing a fair deck. What are the decks you're having problems with?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
Dredge doesn't blow us out - it's a 50% MU i assume. Zealous Persecution wipes half there board, our token chump until we hit enough lifegain (Sorin, Timely).
So after a couple Matches on 'Trice, i'm now sure that this deck is well positioned.
Sometimes the deck felt like having a Dark Confidant would be nice (Painful Truths somebody?), sometimes it just lacks another removal spell (hello Infect) and sometimes it is just that the pilot is sleeping awake. I lost to a Restore Balance Deck because of picking Maelstrom Pulse isntead of Daemonic Dread...which results in a game-loss
Yeah, like mentioned a couple of times, BW Tokens needs to be piloted well. Sideboarding too.
Know your outs, study other decks, know what your opponent is planning. Tokens just feels like a slightly worse Junk Midrange - our clock is just too slow to brawl with Combo-Decks, instead we rumble with Aggro pretty well.
Just lost to Jund because i boarded out Zealous Persecution. Guess what happened - he outdrew me terribly, because i couldn't handle Dark Confidant for a couple of turns
Zealous Persecution is just real pain along with Rest in Peace for all decks that run Tarmogoyf. Wether it handles Goyf + Hierarch, Goyf + Bob or Goyf + Finks. It's nuts!
Burn feels unfavourable w/o Auriok Champion. Sorry, this is the truth. Champ feels like the Champ - a real Gamebreaker. W/o it...it's pretty hard. Thought, can't dedicate much sideboard-Space for Burn.
Regarding Tidehollow Sculler:
He just feels right nowadays. Scatters fragile Combo-Decks (Thoughtseize 3 & 4), blocks, clocks along Sorin, being a Body. I ran 4 IoK, 2 Seize + 2 Sculler, looks pretty stable for now.
Keep things updating, running Dredge for now.
Tokens is just testing, testing, testing.
i put BW tokens aside for now, because i just died to random topdecks and frequently no real action on board way too much.
The big problem i suffered has been the lack of real good 2CMC-Drops.
If you ain't got no Champion or Bitterblossom, there's nothing really good here.
Raise the Alarm is fine, but that's it. Relying heavily on CMC 3 Spells is often too slow to brawl with the Top Decks.
Burn is like 30-70 for me, Zoo is difficult, Affinity is non-existant in my local Meta, Infect pops up heavily now.
There are also a huge amount Tier 2- 3 Decks that i can't handle pretty well with Tokens.
W/o Champion + Blossom the deck loses a lot of it's power.
Green @ it's best
2 Thoughtseize
2 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Raise the Alarm
2 Honor of the Pure
3 Shambling Vent
1 elspeth, Knight-Errant
What does this configuration suppose to do?
It's being a bit more aggressive, while not leaving disruption in behind.
Sculler is another reliable 2-Drop, making a fine addition to ~6 Discard-Effects Turn 1.
Honor of the Pure and Elspeth, Knight-Errant are Buffs that supports
Shambling Vent and Tidehollow Sculler much better than Virtue + Sorin.
Green @ it's best
I pack 3 Sorin, 1 Gideon and 4x IV for today's FNM.
Maybe i'm the luckiest guy for now because i picked up a Playset
Bitterblossom yesterday for 75Euro (approx $84)
I talked to a buddy on wednesday after playing Tokens and discussed
some problematic Matchups. Especially Scapeshift and Tron.
Here's what he advices:
pack some Landhate - 2-3 Rain of Tears or Fulminator Mage.
Then run a couple Extraction Effects - Extirpate or Surgical Extraction.
Blow up Lands, extract them. At first glance i denied his idea, but today it seems pretty appealing to me.
A turn 1 Discard-Spell against Combo-Decks + Extraction is nothing to joke about.
What's your oppinion on that?
Green @ it's best
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Creature (3)
3 Hero of Bladehold
Sorcery (14)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
Instant (9)
4 Path to Exile
4 Raise the Alarm
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Honor of the Pure
4 Intangible Virtue
Land (24)
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Shambling Vent
4 Isolated Chapel
6 Plains
6 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Captain of the Watch
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Dismember
1 Murderous Cut
1 Toughtseize
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Relic of Progenitus
After I manage to reach that point, the first things I'm eyeing are playsets of Godless Shrine (which I currently line up to replace Isolated Chapel) and Bitterblossom.
Anyways, my first goal list should make it somewhat obvious I've been lurking the thread somewhat religiously doing homework and cobbling together this frankenstein's monster-esque list. Based on what I've read, various hate seems to be best tailored to one's local meta, which for me seems to be varied from my first night's experience (I played against a Kiki combo deck, a tron variant, and a what I presumed to be a BW control deck, besides my friend playing Merfolk, and me seeing both Affinity and aggro decks also) so I expect to need to feel that out as I learn. My friend says 4 Path to Exile and 6-8 hand attack cards (Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize in this case) is a good baseline.
One thing I've been mulling over in to do in the far future for the deck is adding in some fetch lands, particularly the costly but perfect for the deck Marsh Flats. Besides my inexperience and rough match ups, I found even after swapping out the two City of Brass for some Shambling Vents, I always felt mana screwed, particularly by Windbrisk Heights. Between feeling unable to make plays due to always being starved for mana, and shooting myself in the foot by making poor choices as to what to throw into the hideaway, I've wondered if Windbrisk really worth keeping in the list at all. Another thing I've been considering is Vault of the Archangel, as the effect seems good enough to run more than a singleton of the card, however I have my inhibitions about doing so, since the cost of activation is somewhat steep based on my experience, and the value is determined by how many tokens I have on the board. Does anyone have experience running multiples of it on mainboard? The short of it is, what would you figure is the ideal set of lands to run if money wasn't an object?
So about Captain of the Watch. I was walking out of my shop at the end of the night and they caught my eye. While the card is quite slow, my consideration is that, based on what type of deck the opponent is running, I figure one either has to play the aggressor or control. Captain seems perfect for when you're on the more control side of things. For a CMC of 6, one card is giving you a 3/3 creature, 3 soldier tokens, and an Intangible Virtue for all soldier creatures on your side of the board. I find it's something that might be worth experimenting with, though I think 3 on sideboard might be much. My guess is it might be a singleton or pair I swap with Hero of Bladehold as I sideboard if the games go longer. The idea is similar to bringing Timely Reinforcements onto the mainboard if I'm playing against a much faster deck, though my instinct is it's not likely to work as smoothly.
I've also been wondering where Bitterblossom could even fit in in this list, should I decide to go ahead and buy a playset. Based on what I've read, my guess is jumping in on Bitterblossom might warrant bringing Soul Warden back onto the mainboard until I could procure the more expensive Auriok Champion?
My Modern Playlist:
BWTokens | GBElves
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
6 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
Captain is definitely an experiment. It piqued my interest when I saw it and while the CMC is certainly steep for the card, I see it being another late game potential card for those matches where my opponent is somewhat midrange - somewhere slower than burn and aggro, but faster than a really control-oriented deck that is intent on biding time until it can find and drop a few really sizable bombs. My expectation is that, even before testing, I figure that 3 is likely too many do to how slow she is. I'm still excited to begin testing it out though, as the card seems to be enough value for the cost; it's more a question of finding a sweet spot where I'm in a game that I can last long enough to be able to pay the CMC and have that value either finish the game for me, or swing the game enough that it could bring me back into it.
Another question: Relic of Progenitus vs Grafdigger's Cage. Am I right in assessing the former to be the stronger of the two in terms of graveyard hate? I figure that the ability to sacrifice the artifact to exile all graveyards and draw a card outweighs the mere lockdown of all graveyards the latter provides.
My Modern Playlist:
BWTokens | GBElves
Lost to Eldritch Evolution-Brew and U Tron, won vs. UWR Nahiri and Naya Company.
Went the way i expected:
The Matchups i am favored i was really heavy favored, the ones i was backstepping i was really always behind.
Green @ it's best
Green @ it's best
The Aggro-thing (Robots, Burn, Infect, Dredge, Zoo) and the Midrange-/Control-Shell (UWR Nahiri, Jund).
Besides that, dedicated Combo is at an all-time low (good for this deck!) but on the other hand Aggro is
becoming faster and faster. It looks like everybody and his mom is tuning his deck for the Turn 3 Kill.
I expect Zealous Persecution to be a role-player once dredge
makes huge waves. So the Tier 1 Decks are about to be manageable for BW Tokens.
Still there are plenty of Tier 2 Decks that gives me headaches. Sideboard is no more than 15 CArds and it
feels like i cannot dedicate too much space for all the "Random Decks" durdling around this format.
The Deck lacks broad answers (hello Anguished Unmaking) for every possible Problem out there.
I still die to bad topdecks and no real way to draw Cards.
Is someone trying Collective Brutality?
On paper it seems to be an all-around good Card.
Nets 2 life, killing Goblin Guide and discarding Scapeshift is pretty solid.
It's pretty broad in applications, plus giving Value with Lingering Souls.
Green @ it's best
Zealous Persecution wipes half there board, our token chump until we hit enough lifegain (Sorin, Timely).
Most notably Scapeshift, Tron and Collected Company gives me brain-pain.
For future matches i'm going to test Fulminator Mage + Surgical Extraction.
Today my playset Bitterblossom arrived.
Maybe i can get this thing workin' w/o Auriok Champion...Timely Reinforcements for the win?
Green @ it's best
Sometimes the deck felt like having a Dark Confidant would be nice (Painful Truths somebody?), sometimes it just lacks another removal spell (hello Infect) and sometimes it is just that the pilot is sleeping awake. I lost to a Restore Balance Deck because of picking Maelstrom Pulse isntead of Daemonic Dread...which results in a game-loss
Yeah, like mentioned a couple of times, BW Tokens needs to be piloted well. Sideboarding too.
Know your outs, study other decks, know what your opponent is planning. Tokens just feels like a slightly worse Junk Midrange - our clock is just too slow to brawl with Combo-Decks, instead we rumble with Aggro pretty well.
Just lost to Jund because i boarded out Zealous Persecution. Guess what happened - he outdrew me terribly, because i couldn't handle Dark Confidant for a couple of turns
Zealous Persecution is just real pain along with Rest in Peace for all decks that run Tarmogoyf. Wether it handles Goyf + Hierarch, Goyf + Bob or Goyf + Finks. It's nuts!
Burn feels unfavourable w/o Auriok Champion. Sorry, this is the truth. Champ feels like the Champ - a real Gamebreaker. W/o it...it's pretty hard. Thought, can't dedicate much sideboard-Space for Burn.
Regarding Tidehollow Sculler:
He just feels right nowadays. Scatters fragile Combo-Decks (Thoughtseize 3 & 4), blocks, clocks along Sorin, being a Body. I ran 4 IoK, 2 Seize + 2 Sculler, looks pretty stable for now.
Keep things updating, running Dredge for now.
Tokens is just testing, testing, testing.
Green @ it's best