Hello I am debating about building a ur Delver budgetized or this deck. Shamans seems really fun and unexpected and very hard to sideboard against it. I will be playing casual then competitive at my leg and Delver is currently not doing well at all. I also have alot of parts of a gr tron like Karn Liberated and others.
I am really just wondering how competitive this deck is and how it really deals with spellsike.
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[center][color=Blue]
U/R Delver
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Hey also what about the idea of playing traitorous ogre. I don't know if you can see the card. I will play it casually I know I know that it is not modern legal. I wonder why not play this guy seems good. Any thoughts??
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[center][color=Blue]
U/R Delver
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Hey, I am absolutely in love with this deck and have already started acquiring the cards. I'm just having a bit of trouble knowing when to swing at the face. My friend frequently plays 5 color Tribal Flames Zoo, which just comes out the gates faster and has removal for everything I put down. Anything I could do to make this match up better? And do you think that the MB Essence Warden is necessary in a meta where Burn/RDW is present but not overbearingly? I'm looking for a couple mainboard slots to put into speeding up the clock against decks like Urza Tron and others. Also, I've freqeuently faced many sac effects in my meta, including the disgusting "All is Dust" and Phyrexian Obliterator (Lol..).. What do you think of a Tajuru Preserver SB against these match ups?
I have another big question: is dropping a Rage Forger instead of another shaman smart pretty much most of the time? I'm frequently facing this problem that I could continue building up my board presence and wait to use Rage Forger to "alpha strike" by casting Visionary / Harbinger / BTS instead of the Rage Forger I'm sitting on. Advice?
I'm running a play set of both of those guys. I'm really looking for another 2 drop. I might want to put Wolf Skull back as I really want an aggressive 2 drop that benefits off Banneret. I'll just replace Essence with him and try that out.
I also love the idea of Shared Animosity. My only worry is not being able to rely on it. We can reliably fetch Rage Forgers or even dig for them. Animosity would be a luck of the draw type thing. Have you tried it before? How does it do against keeping pressure post sweep/removal?
Well, that's exactly what I was thinking. Running a playset of Mutavaults would allow ridiculous Shared Animosity procs. Running it as a 2-of with a playset of Mutavaults and some inner creature synergy beyond shamans (looking specifically at Human/Elf) seems like it would make a really nice grindier sort of deck. The deck could use ramp and lean a bit more on 3 drops for pressure. Not sure if it's viable as other decks tend to explode with the low interaction Shamanism provides. I thought about Experiment One, but I'm finding with 3 Communes, 3 Birds, and 3 Harbingers I have plenty of turn 1 plays and seem to run out of steam quicker. I want to benefit more from Bosk without relying on him too much. It seems like a delicate balance, but I think it's ultimately really important to the deck's power overall.
Skinshifter, in my opinion, is just bad. I can never block with him, as I always get bolted / removed in response to activating him. He has extreme cases where he thrives (your opponent has no removal), but he requires additional mana. That means on t3-t4, you're wanting to be dropping your beautiful 3 drops like BTS and Rage and wanting to swing as a 4/4 trampler. It creates a really bad feeling.
What do you think of Tattermunge? Have you ever playtested him? He seems really solid for an alpha strike, possibly after a t3 Rage Forger you dump 4 mana and swing HARD. The 1 toughness is quite the turn off though, as he trades with 2/x's.
Lastly, I'm testing Prophetic Flamespeaker as a 1-of (sorta for swag, cause I LOVE the card). He actually feels really good to swing with and draws like crazy. Him and a Bosk on the field are amazing, as you can usually use both cards that are drawn. He draws removal, but so does half the deck.
A really important thing to deck building is the feelings your deck creates. Running Birds / Commune / Flamekin Harbinger feels weird sometimes. When I have a Flamekin, I want to tutor that Rage Forger, but I also could use ramp, then again I want to dig for possibly a Banneret / Burning-Tree / etc for an explosive or important turn 2. My point with all this is.. When you combine multiple of these 1-drops it feels kind of bad. I'm looking primarily at the Birds of Paradise.
My point, and eventual question, for all of this is.. Do you think Birds are absolutely necessary? I feel like, almost exclusively, I'd rather another 2 drop for a potential threat. Sure, it'll lead to possibly less explosive starts, but it'll increase the threat density of the deck. Currently my favorite use of Birds is to tutor them... Lol. I'm just not sure the extreme cases it provides (T1: Birds, T2: BTE, BTE, Bosk, Fauna) is ultimately worth it. What are your opinions?
Well, it looks like there might be enough card support to make a grindier deck. I'm looking specifically at Leaf-Crowned Elder, Descendant's Path, Shared Animosity, Aether Vial, Lead the Stampede (POSSIBLY, I know it feels incredibly bad when you miss cause it's a 3 drop), Kiki, greater use of Eternal Witness, and the ever powerful Thrun. What do you think? I'm just not sure if it would work.
Well, it looks like there might be enough card support to make a grindier deck. I'm looking specifically at Leaf-Crowned Elder, Descendant's Path, Shared Animosity, Aether Vial, Lead the Stampede (POSSIBLY, I know it feels incredibly bad when you miss cause it's a 3 drop), Kiki, greater use of Eternal Witness, and the ever powerful Thrun. What do you think? I'm just not sure if it would work.
I choose to run Lead the Stampede over Commune with Nature since my meta leans more towards board wipes than fast combos. Honestly, at worst you will get a Divination, which, while not excellent is pretty decent for Gruul if you're not trying to blitz. More often than not, though, I end up picking up 3-4 creatures, which makes a big difference. I have even gotten the mythical 5-creature draw, which makes it insane.
I think it's a meta call, since getting two Rage Forgers early is less relevant against control, where as against Pod/Twin, you need to go for speed.
Picelli89, that's exactly what I've been desperately searching for. There are a few cards that come to mind when looking at consistent card advantage offered: Leaf-Crowned Elder, Descendants' Path, Lead the Stampede. But as of right now, I don't see those working more smoothly than the deck overall. I've been brewing hard trying to figure out a grindier set up, but when it comes down to it, the cards just might not be there.. Or worse, it's just a shadow of a normal midrange, better midrangey deck. Shamans right now feels unique, explosive, and fragile. Currently, my list ends up folding to a lot. T1: Inquisition, T2: Thoughtseize is a nightmare. Tribal Flames Zoo is a nightmare with the amount of removal they have readily.
My big question with this visit is, assuming the cards are there to make it work, "What card engine could bring this deck to the next level?" I'm going to be searching throughout today and try to find something beyond the 3 I listed. As of right now, Leaf-Crowned is GREAT, but not ENOUGH.
Lastly, I just started trying a new build. The most frustrating thing to me would be the declaration of blockers against other aggro / monsters / midrange decks because our measly 1/1's, 2/2's, and even 3/3's post Rage Forger aren't the best blockers. To try and switch that up, I removed all mainboard Birds of Paradise and a Wolf-Skull to put in a playset of Essence Warden. So far, you put enough creatures alone to keep healthy and not worry about taking hits. When they start dropping a ton of creatures as well, it gets rather ridiculous. This leads to drawing removal on a 1 DROP! Which feels just great, btw. I'm changing up my sideboard in response, because I'd board some of them out vs. combo decks for BTS's and such. Hopefully the curve shift post board won't screw things up.
So I decided to go out and buy the last deck pizzap posted, and after about 20 or so practice games I decided to try out a daily. I got wrecked.
Game 1: Burn, I just couldn't race him fast enough, I would get him down to next turn lethal then both times he lava spiked me to death. This was both games.
Game 2: Soul sisters. I couldn't draw any removal and while both games I was in a place where I could of won if I had more time, I didnt. First game brought me down to 10 minutes, he was at 12, and there was no end in sight. So I conceded. Game 2 same thing happened, but I was slowly chipping him away. Ended up getting him down to less than 20, by then the time ran out.
At this point I dropped because I had some work to do and I wasn't getting prize support.
I don't know if it was my play (my buddy who is a lot better than me was helping) or if it was just my luck, also I had nothing in my deck for soul sisters but it seems to be somewhat popular on MTGO so maybe its worth a sb slot.
Me and my friend are currently trying to tech this deck out so if we find something that works I will be sure to post it.
Soul Sister gets crushed by Stigma Lasher. With Rage Forger trigger, you don't even have to connect. Also can be fetched by Harbingers I believe. If you come up with any ideas, I'd love to hear them. As of right now, I'm trying @4x MB Essence Warden to help with burn and zoo, and general health. If they aren't removed you get so much time to work with.
Our main findings were that while the deck was able to get a good start, it was extremely hard to "get there" in the end. So most of our changes deal with helping to close out the game, and give us some more reach/options.
We added the Flamespeakers because even though he is a tasty Bolt target, he just does so much work, especially once the Rage Forger triggers and even having him connect once or twice and pull you that sweet removal or answer you were looking for. Thrun moved to the Main because he is just a great closer that doesn't allow interaction, and because of that he shuts down a lot of decks, also once you start putting Forger tokens on him its pretty much game over.
For the side we took out the blood moons because some times I would have it but using it would be a huge hindrance to me as well this is why the Molten Rain came in, it does the same thing, without hurting myself and also providing a little reach, since we normally don't want to drag the games out past T7 a well timed Molten Rain could really clinch you a win. I also added the Lasher for when we have to play against sisters.
The one tech that I am considering now is a single copy of Kessig's Wolf Run to really help close games, but I don't know if taking away a colored land is worth it (It would probably be a canopy).
I would love any feedback for this list.
EDIT: Just did a few more practice matches. It seems like against what my friends would call "Real" decks (UWr, Jund, Affinity, Twin) I can do great. But against more janky decks I have some trouble. I was able to trounce UWr, and Jund but I had a ton of trouble with the Mono B deck that is going around as well as the Naya Zoo deck.
Screw just midrange builds! This card is beautiful for the early game. So often this deck will fold to solid blockers, unable to block ourselves without losing creatures. Here's a normal scenario this would fit beautifully in.. T1: Flamekin, T2: BTE, Bosk, T3: Fauna, Visionary, Wolf-Skull, Essence Warden (pick 2) or Rage Forger with a mini alpha strike. At T3 instead you could Obelisk by convoking everything. Or Rage Forger and convoke for all T4. I think it'll need playtesting, but it looks delightful. And maybe I'll finally be able to make Prophetic Flamespeaker work. :/
It would certainly give you new god hands. T1 guy, t2 emissary emissary emissary convoke obelisk. If people play it someone will get that to work once.
I actually really like Obelisk of Urd but I'm not sure what to take out for it. This deck can only afford a few non-creature spells, especially if we are trying to abuse convoke. I'm not really sure how many to run either. I suppose I could just try it as a one of, much like I used to with Shared Animosity. However, while Shared Animosity was strictly offensive, Obelisk of Urd is also defensive; especially against bolt and Anger of the Gods. Making my guys survive bolt is something I want to do early, which makes me want to run three Obelisks. Some testing may be in order
Ok what do you guys think of this? The only Modern I'm able to play is between standard rounds so decks vary a lot and at major tournaments. I also was curious what's the thoughts on Mutavault? It's a "Shaman" and could be another good beater
I am really just wondering how competitive this deck is and how it really deals with spellsike.
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
I have another big question: is dropping a Rage Forger instead of another shaman smart pretty much most of the time? I'm frequently facing this problem that I could continue building up my board presence and wait to use Rage Forger to "alpha strike" by casting Visionary / Harbinger / BTS instead of the Rage Forger I'm sitting on. Advice?
Skinshifter, in my opinion, is just bad. I can never block with him, as I always get bolted / removed in response to activating him. He has extreme cases where he thrives (your opponent has no removal), but he requires additional mana. That means on t3-t4, you're wanting to be dropping your beautiful 3 drops like BTS and Rage and wanting to swing as a 4/4 trampler. It creates a really bad feeling.
What do you think of Tattermunge? Have you ever playtested him? He seems really solid for an alpha strike, possibly after a t3 Rage Forger you dump 4 mana and swing HARD. The 1 toughness is quite the turn off though, as he trades with 2/x's.
Lastly, I'm testing Prophetic Flamespeaker as a 1-of (sorta for swag, cause I LOVE the card). He actually feels really good to swing with and draws like crazy. Him and a Bosk on the field are amazing, as you can usually use both cards that are drawn. He draws removal, but so does half the deck.
My point, and eventual question, for all of this is.. Do you think Birds are absolutely necessary? I feel like, almost exclusively, I'd rather another 2 drop for a potential threat. Sure, it'll lead to possibly less explosive starts, but it'll increase the threat density of the deck. Currently my favorite use of Birds is to tutor them... Lol. I'm just not sure the extreme cases it provides (T1: Birds, T2: BTE, BTE, Bosk, Fauna) is ultimately worth it. What are your opinions?
I choose to run Lead the Stampede over Commune with Nature since my meta leans more towards board wipes than fast combos. Honestly, at worst you will get a Divination, which, while not excellent is pretty decent for Gruul if you're not trying to blitz. More often than not, though, I end up picking up 3-4 creatures, which makes a big difference. I have even gotten the mythical 5-creature draw, which makes it insane.
I think it's a meta call, since getting two Rage Forgers early is less relevant against control, where as against Pod/Twin, you need to go for speed.
My big question with this visit is, assuming the cards are there to make it work, "What card engine could bring this deck to the next level?" I'm going to be searching throughout today and try to find something beyond the 3 I listed. As of right now, Leaf-Crowned is GREAT, but not ENOUGH.
Lastly, I just started trying a new build. The most frustrating thing to me would be the declaration of blockers against other aggro / monsters / midrange decks because our measly 1/1's, 2/2's, and even 3/3's post Rage Forger aren't the best blockers. To try and switch that up, I removed all mainboard Birds of Paradise and a Wolf-Skull to put in a playset of Essence Warden. So far, you put enough creatures alone to keep healthy and not worry about taking hits. When they start dropping a ton of creatures as well, it gets rather ridiculous. This leads to drawing removal on a 1 DROP! Which feels just great, btw. I'm changing up my sideboard in response, because I'd board some of them out vs. combo decks for BTS's and such. Hopefully the curve shift post board won't screw things up.
Game 1: Burn, I just couldn't race him fast enough, I would get him down to next turn lethal then both times he lava spiked me to death. This was both games.
Game 2: Soul sisters. I couldn't draw any removal and while both games I was in a place where I could of won if I had more time, I didnt. First game brought me down to 10 minutes, he was at 12, and there was no end in sight. So I conceded. Game 2 same thing happened, but I was slowly chipping him away. Ended up getting him down to less than 20, by then the time ran out.
At this point I dropped because I had some work to do and I wasn't getting prize support.
I don't know if it was my play (my buddy who is a lot better than me was helping) or if it was just my luck, also I had nothing in my deck for soul sisters but it seems to be somewhat popular on MTGO so maybe its worth a sb slot.
Me and my friend are currently trying to tech this deck out so if we find something that works I will be sure to post it.
3 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Rage Forger
2 Prophetic Flamespeaker
1 Essence Warden
4 Bosk Banneret
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Fauna Shaman
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Burning-Tree Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Commune with Nature
Lands
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
1 Dismember
1 Stigma Lasher
1 Cunning Sparkmage
3 Molten Rain
2 Essence Warden
1 Back to Nature
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Burning-Tree Shaman
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Our main findings were that while the deck was able to get a good start, it was extremely hard to "get there" in the end. So most of our changes deal with helping to close out the game, and give us some more reach/options.
We added the Flamespeakers because even though he is a tasty Bolt target, he just does so much work, especially once the Rage Forger triggers and even having him connect once or twice and pull you that sweet removal or answer you were looking for. Thrun moved to the Main because he is just a great closer that doesn't allow interaction, and because of that he shuts down a lot of decks, also once you start putting Forger tokens on him its pretty much game over.
For the side we took out the blood moons because some times I would have it but using it would be a huge hindrance to me as well this is why the Molten Rain came in, it does the same thing, without hurting myself and also providing a little reach, since we normally don't want to drag the games out past T7 a well timed Molten Rain could really clinch you a win. I also added the Lasher for when we have to play against sisters.
The one tech that I am considering now is a single copy of Kessig's Wolf Run to really help close games, but I don't know if taking away a colored land is worth it (It would probably be a canopy).
I would love any feedback for this list.
EDIT: Just did a few more practice matches. It seems like against what my friends would call "Real" decks (UWr, Jund, Affinity, Twin) I can do great. But against more janky decks I have some trouble. I was able to trounce UWr, and Jund but I had a ton of trouble with the Mono B deck that is going around as well as the Naya Zoo deck.
I'm also thinking about Pyrewild Shaman for its bloodrush and return to hand abilities.
I actually really like Obelisk of Urd but I'm not sure what to take out for it. This deck can only afford a few non-creature spells, especially if we are trying to abuse convoke. I'm not really sure how many to run either. I suppose I could just try it as a one of, much like I used to with Shared Animosity. However, while Shared Animosity was strictly offensive, Obelisk of Urd is also defensive; especially against bolt and Anger of the Gods. Making my guys survive bolt is something I want to do early, which makes me want to run three Obelisks. Some testing may be in order
4x Bosk Banneret
3x Birds of Paradise
2x Burning-Tree Shaman
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Flamekin Harbinger
4x Rage Forger
1x Eternal Witness
2x Essence Warden
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lead the Stampede
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
Lands (21)
2x Cavern of Souls
3x Stomping Ground
4x Copperline Gorge
4x Rootbound Crag
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Mountain
2x Forest
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Sowing Salt
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Dismember
2x Blood Moon
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Ancient Grudge
Ok what do you guys think of this? The only Modern I'm able to play is between standard rounds so decks vary a lot and at major tournaments. I also was curious what's the thoughts on Mutavault? It's a "Shaman" and could be another good beater
4x Rage Forger
3x Fauna Shaman
4x Bosk Banneret
3x Wolf-Skull Shaman
3x Flamekin Harbinger
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
1x Essence Warden
1x Hell's Thunder
1x Eternal Witness
1x Burning-Tree Shaman
1x Spikeshot Elder
1x Stigma Lasher
1x Skinshifter
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Commune with Nature
LAND
4x Forest
4x Mountain
3x Rootbound Crag
3x Stomping Ground
3x Mutavault
3x Cavern of Souls
1x Pendelhaven
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Magma Spray
1x Sensation Gorger
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Fulminator Mage
1x Dismember
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Ingot Chewer
1x Sylvok Replica
1x Destructive Revelry
1x Cunning Sparkmage
1x Vulshok Sorcerer
I like playing this deck a lot. The sideboard needs some work. I didn't realize I play that many one ofs in the main.