Big Rock is a Modern interpretation of the original deck called The Rock that proved so good in Extended way back when. The original decks were a bit different from the approach that today is called Modern Rock, in that they were more creature focused, they used plenty of ramp to play fat creatures, they had access to great CA by way of tutors and draw, and the decks tended to play some life-gain medium-sized creatures for staying power. Big Rock is an attempt to make that work in Modern, and in this case on a budget.
COLORS:
The Rock was originally a BG deck, and it was later that variants popped up that utilized white. White takes the deck into Junk territory and really changes the way the deck is played, so I intend for this primer to be pretty much focused on BG. Why?:
Tradition- I know that a "next level" deck builder should not self impose non-game restrictions like this on themselves, but my whole impetus for building this deck was to play a deck that had the feel of the old Extended The Rock decks. The pre-Lorwyn Rock decks would occasionally splash for white or red, but they were truely splashes, so they were small. I could see myself trying this when I have the BG aspect really solidly locked in and know it's weaknesses well, but right now I am not thrilled with what W and R could add.
Play Style- Both W and R, when added in large amounts in Modern, have a tendency to pull BG into a more aggro play style, and that is not what I want to do with this deck. Both can also be splashed for two of the best removal cards in the format (Path to Exile and Lightning Bolt), but I am already playing very effective removal as it is.
Exception- One card that I seriously went back and forth on for this deck was Blood Baron of Vizkopa. It is a VERY Rock creature and running a few Marsh Flats and Godless Shrine would be enough to be able to cast it reliably. I really want to stick with BG for now though.
WHAT IS YOUR IDEA OF "BUDGET"?:
For the most part my idea of budget for this deck is no Goyf. I don't own them and probably never will, but I refuse to stop trying to build green creature based decks, so I work around it. That said, I am willing to discuss even more more stringent budget ideas in this thread, such as not owning fetches or whatever, so go right ahead and post. I put the list I posted below into tcgplayer bulk buy and the deck came to $370 if purchased from whole cloth. That may not seem budget for some, but if you take out the Verdant Catacombs that knocks about $135 off the deck price. The deck plays significantly better with them however, so that version will be the one I maintain.
Ramp:
With DRS no longer available to use in Modern I went with the other two top choices, both of which are very affordable. Wall of Roots is so good right now with Zoo back in the meta, and it also can add mana the same turn it is played.
Mana Base:
Essentially this is what you have that you can run in this deck. With eight mana dorks there is a bit of wiggle room in the mana base of a deck like this, but make sure and make it a bit more green heavy. The only thing I might add is that I really want to find room for a copy or two of Arena, but I am not sure I want to pull any more basic lands at this point.
Creatures:
Some of the choices speak for themselves, and honestly there are just so many great creatures in these colors that in the end I just had to make some gut calls on what to cut and what to run.
Scooze: With DRS gone Scooze becomes the most commonly run MD grave-hate critter and it is obviously very solid, but it can be a bit too thirsty in multiples so I would not run more than three. I ended up settling on two.
Kitchen Finks: I did not have Finks in my original list, but it is just so good vs Zoo that it snuck it's way into the deck.
Troll Ascetic: This is a bit of a flex spot in that I have no visceral love for playing it. It is hard to remove and a pretty reliable blocker.
Shriekmaw and Acidic Slime: Five mana for removal (dependant in Maw's case) and a creature with pseudo evasion is generally just a bit too expensive in Modern, but with all the mana dorks this deck runs these becomes much more playable.
Thragtusk: This is the Ravenous Baloth slot for the Modern build. One of the aspects of The Rock that makes it so grindy are creatures that give you life on a medium-fat body. Tusk also makes non-exile removal unattractive too. The main thing that gives me pause to running it is the three toughness, but it has still been pretty darned good so far.
Rampaging Baloths: This is a "pet card" of mine that I have been trying to find a home for since Modern started, and it can get out hand quick. The real problem with it is that getting it down early enough that you are still playing lands regularly enough to trigger landfall, but with a good frontloading of mana dorks should minimize this.
Desecration Demon: This "extra beater" slot used to be Herald of Leshrac, but seven mana is a pain in the rear. DD is an easily neutralized threat, but then it acts as removal- even against Zoo. I might side it out against decks running Bitterblossom because it will rarely net you card advantage. That said, if it turns out good I might actually add more to magnify the potential.
Walkers:
Garruk Wildspeaker: I love that he is mana ramp and beast daddy all in one. This was my initial Walker, but others were suggested so I am testing with all of them.
Garruk Relentless: Flipping this can be a pain in the tuchas, but the pseudo-fight adds more removal to my control suite. This is my current walker.
Garruk, Primal Hunter is a bit more potent than Wildspeaker and adds draw, but I am a bit more interested in the land untap of GW a bit more. I will test GPH eventually.
Liliana of the Veil: Removal and discard. I actually had her in the deck when I first built it, but this deck does not really like discarding at all, so her +1 was hard to activate a few times. If I could find room for Eternal Witness MD then I would feel better running her, but eventually I replaced her with targeted discard.
Other Spells:
Read the Bones: I really need some draw to fuel my grind, and I decided that this would be a good chance to try the card out in Modern. It should be very easy to cast and the scry before draw is pretty amazing. It is Sorcery speed, so that kinda sucks, but if my ramp is sufficient it should not tap me out most of the game.
Phyrexian Arena: I think I favor Arena in place of Read the Bones at this point. The Scry in Bones is great, but this deck can rocket out an Arena pretty fast at times and it just fuels our onslaught so well.
Inquisition of Kozilek: Initially I had Thoughtseize in this slot, but to be honest it feels like a waste of life right now due to how cheap a lot of the spells in Modern are. I have Thoughtseize on MTGO, but IoK just seems like a better card right now.
Abrupt Decay: This should be an obvious inclusion- it is really one of the most powerful and impactful cards in Modern. It answers so many threats that it is just essential. Fortunately it is also very affordable and a good investment for future decks.
Sideboard:
Obstinate Baloth: Online I am seeing a lot more of the discard control decks played, and this seemed like the best trap.
Drown in Sorrow: This sweeper hits a lot of cards in Modern, but spares most of the critters in this deck. I like the addition of Scry too.
Maelstrom Pulse: Another spell that is quite handy against tokens.
Putrefy: This is our answer to Ensnaring Bridge and any swords that might appear that our Slime can't take care of.
Witchstalker: This was originally MD, but I started to feel like it really should be sided in for control opponents. It is a bit surprising how often it grows into a 5/5, and it can force play mistakes when they are hesitant about growing it.
My intention is for this to be a Primer if people are interested in the deck. I will add in full card choice sections when I see interest and have a bit more time, because there are a lot of cards that I looked at and considered but left out. I think it is important to talk about them too because metas change and they may end up being relevant in the future.
Funny thing. A couple of months ago I was searching for some ideas for a BG shell given that I could not afford the full rock/jund bandwagon.
Looking at your list, I wonder, your only weapon against combos is the discards, but to play the discards in the first few turns, you cannot play your dorks. I wonder if one set of dorks should become a set of discards.
Funny thing. A couple of months ago I was searching for some ideas for a BG shell given that I could not afford the full rock/jund bandwagon.
Looking at your list, I wonder, your only weapon against combos is the discards, but to play the discards in the first few turns, you cannot play your dorks. I wonder if one set of dorks should become a set of discards.
That is something to consider for the SB for sure, but at least in the meta that I anticipate facing and have been facing on MTGO in the past few weeks I am not sure I want them MD. I have had some games where I am holding IoK and Birds in my opening hand game one, and I was not entirely sure what the right play would be. I will have to take a look at that and other anti-combo solutions as I expand and complete this primer. I have to admit that combating combo is a bit of a weakness in my deck building and development since often combo is not as prevalent on MTGO where I get the vast majority of my Modern playing in.
I really like the idea of a budget Rock deck. Since I run a thread with the non budget version I might stop in from time to time to post my budget friendly deck lists. Many times they will include Death Cloud, as that is my pet card.
There are really a fair amount of ways to build BG Rock in Modern cheaply while still being effective. Duress and Wrench Mind will give you some more discard options. You've already touched on Putrefy which to me is a great choice right now. Life from the Loam is reasonably priced and pairs well with Ravens Crime. You also have Crime//Punishment and Gaze of Granite for more surgical sweepers. I can go on and on but I'll keep that for deck lists.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I really like the idea of a budget Rock deck. Since I run a thread with the non budget version I might stop in from time to time to post my budget friendly deck lists. Many times they will include Death Cloud, as that is my pet card.
I really feel like Death Cloud is a build around synergy card, where as Big Rock (and the original The Rock) are for the most part goodstuff decks.
There are really a fair amount of ways to build BG Rock in Modern cheaply while still being effective. Duress and Wrench Mind will give you some more discard options. You've already touched on Putrefy which to me is a great choice right now. Life from the Loam is reasonably priced and pairs well with Ravens Crime. You also have Crime//Punishment and Gaze of Granite for more surgical sweepers. I can go on and on but I'll keep that for deck lists.
Yea, y'all mention a lot of cards that I have played with BG strategies, and I am willing to look at a lot of cards (heck, I will be using jmlima's list of cards as I develop the primer more), I just want to be clear that as we do that we don't veer off into other decks and muddy the waters. I think that there is also a potential budget BG Aggro Rock deck that could be made and developed which would curve lower, but the reason I called this Big Rock is that I felt it was more like the original deck and is more what I want to develop. This is not an admonition in any way, just some things I may not have been clear enough about in the primer that I probably need to add.
jmlima: Many of the cards on that I looked at with varying degrees of interest and seriousness, and will go into them a bit more later as I have time. One card I do want to mention before I forget for consideration in the SB is Deathmark. I am getting word back from Zoo players that this card hoses them effectively and cheaply.
I would think Nath would be the poster boy for budget Big Rock. Along with Gaze.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I would think Nath would be the poster boy for budget Big Rock. Along with Gaze.
Nath is worth testing I think, I just have not done so in Modern. Gaze is probably too expensive- I couldn't make it work well in Standard and that is a slower format.
... I think that there is also a potential budget BG Aggro Rock deck that could be made and developed which would curve lower, but the reason I called this Big Rock is that I felt it was more like the original deck and is more what I want to develop. ...
That's fair enough. The key to good budget decks is not to try to emulate the expensive ones (in this instance with low curves) but to go a different way that does not require the same tools.
(Having said that, there are a lot of big mana creatures in your list, I wonder if Garruk Wildspeaker would bee the right Garruk...)
... I think that there is also a potential budget BG Aggro Rock deck that could be made and developed which would curve lower, but the reason I called this Big Rock is that I felt it was more like the original deck and is more what I want to develop. ...
That's fair enough. The key to good budget decks is not to try to emulate the expensive ones (in this instance with low curves) but to go a different way that does not require the same tools.
(Having said that, there are a lot of big mana creatures in your list, I wonder if Garruk Wildspeaker would bee the right Garruk...)
yea, that was the fisrt Garruk I played for that reason. It is a tough call because all three are strong in different ways.
I like the power level that you can get to in this deck with some of the more obscure cards. Phyrexian Arena might be better than Read the Bones. I'm not sure though.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
While not dismissing anything outright, I also want to be very careful with the non-creatures that are added to the deck, and realistic about the mana heights we are aiming for with the big critters. Mana Dorks seem pretty good for now, and it would be easy to lose sight of the need for some level of competitiveness in a budget thread like this.
That said, if I were to run land fetch I would not go for straight CA, rather I would look at speed too in the form of Harrow.
I like the power level that you can get to in this deck with some of the more obscure cards. Phyrexian Arena might be better than Read the Bones. I'm not sure though.
I have gone back and forth on this as well, and I need to do more testing on both sides.
Hm, you need something like Pernicious Deed for board control
That's why Gaze of Granite was suggested, but the casting cost makes it tough to cast. I think the best the deck can manage is Engineered Explosives, which on the one hand is not as broad of a sweep of your opponents field, but then you can tailor it a bit in your favor as well. I think I will add those in place of Pithing Needle in the SB for now.
I mentioned that prior. Gaze does a great job against Zoo, and can be cast as early as turn 3 with any form of ramp. Also having game versus Affinity is good. I have a ton of budget minded guys at my shop and they all play Affinity. The deck is very cheap to build if you don't use the Opals.
Grave Titan and [Primeval Titan[/c] are both worth a look if you are going "Big".
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
So many things to try out. I will say that I have tried and tried Grave Titan in Modern and it always disappoints. Anyway, what I was trying today was giving up one of my pet cards and trying something a little more tough on my opponent.
As you can see I took a suggestion and replaced Read the Bones with Phyrexian Arena, and I think it is a permanent change. This deck can take advantage of Arena so well. For this test run I reigned in the top end of the deck and dropped my beloved Rampaging Baloths and added two more Desecration Demons. I have had a lot of early success with it, and it is pretty skill testing for my opponent- especially when their gameplan is to amass lots of creatures and they keep having to sack them. The fact that it is not legendary means multiples can be in play at once, and they are super efficient to play. You would definitely want to side it out vs tokens though. I also put in Garruk Wildspeaker in place of Garruk Relentless even though I was lowering the top end because I really find that it makes tokens so much easier. Lastly I moved Witchstalker to the SB and added an extra Kitchen Finks and Abrupt Decay to the MD. Witchstalker can be great in certain matchups, but it really is not MD material, whereas Finks is a pretty big player right now, and another kill spell is always a good thing.
One thing y'all could try, if anyone is testing this, is Courser of Kruphix in place of finks or Troll Ascetic. I have them in meatspace, but at almost 9 tix a piece on MTGO I don't think I will be grabbing any soon. I don't know though...maybe I will. Anyway, it has some very valuable junk in the tunk and it has pseudo card advantage, along with life gain. Having Finks, Courser, and Thragtusk in the deck could make this deck very hard for non-combo decks to take down.
Big Rock is a Modern interpretation of the original deck called The Rock that proved so good in Extended way back when. The original decks were a bit different from the approach that today is called Modern Rock, in that they were more creature focused, they used plenty of ramp to play fat creatures, they had access to great CA by way of tutors and draw, and the decks tended to play some life-gain medium-sized creatures for staying power. Big Rock is an attempt to make that work in Modern, and in this case on a budget.
The Rock was originally a BG deck, and it was later that variants popped up that utilized white. White takes the deck into Junk territory and really changes the way the deck is played, so I intend for this primer to be pretty much focused on BG. Why?:
For the most part my idea of budget for this deck is no Goyf. I don't own them and probably never will, but I refuse to stop trying to build green creature based decks, so I work around it. That said, I am willing to discuss even more more stringent budget ideas in this thread, such as not owning fetches or whatever, so go right ahead and post. I put the list I posted below into tcgplayer bulk buy and the deck came to $370 if purchased from whole cloth. That may not seem budget for some, but if you take out the Verdant Catacombs that knocks about $135 off the deck price. The deck plays significantly better with them however, so that version will be the one I maintain.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Wall of Roots
Other Creatures
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Troll Ascetic
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Shriekmaw
2 Acidic Slime
3 Thragtusk
2 Rampaging Baloths
1 Desecration Demon
Wranglers
2 Garruk Relentless
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Phyrexian Arena
Land
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Treetop Village
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Witchstalker
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Shriekmaw
2 Putrefy
3 Obstinate Baloth
Ramp:
With DRS no longer available to use in Modern I went with the other two top choices, both of which are very affordable. Wall of Roots is so good right now with Zoo back in the meta, and it also can add mana the same turn it is played.
Mana Base:
Essentially this is what you have that you can run in this deck. With eight mana dorks there is a bit of wiggle room in the mana base of a deck like this, but make sure and make it a bit more green heavy. The only thing I might add is that I really want to find room for a copy or two of Arena, but I am not sure I want to pull any more basic lands at this point.
Creatures:
Some of the choices speak for themselves, and honestly there are just so many great creatures in these colors that in the end I just had to make some gut calls on what to cut and what to run.
Walkers:
Other Spells:
Read the Bones: I really need some draw to fuel my grind, and I decided that this would be a good chance to try the card out in Modern. It should be very easy to cast and the scry before draw is pretty amazing. It is Sorcery speed, so that kinda sucks, but if my ramp is sufficient it should not tap me out most of the game.Sideboard:
My intention is for this to be a Primer if people are interested in the deck. I will add in full card choice sections when I see interest and have a bit more time, because there are a lot of cards that I looked at and considered but left out. I think it is important to talk about them too because metas change and they may end up being relevant in the future.
02.19.2014
-2 Pithing Needle (SB)
+2 Engineered Explosives (SB)
02.22.2014
-2 Witchstalker (MD)
-3 Read the Bones (MD)
-2 Kitchen Finks (SB)
+3 Phyrexian Arena (MD)
+2 Witchstalker (SB)
+1 Abrupt Decay (MD)
+1 Kitchen Finks (MD)
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Looking at your list, I wonder, your only weapon against combos is the discards, but to play the discards in the first few turns, you cannot play your dorks. I wonder if one set of dorks should become a set of discards.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
There are really a fair amount of ways to build BG Rock in Modern cheaply while still being effective. Duress and Wrench Mind will give you some more discard options. You've already touched on Putrefy which to me is a great choice right now. Life from the Loam is reasonably priced and pairs well with Ravens Crime. You also have Crime//Punishment and Gaze of Granite for more surgical sweepers. I can go on and on but I'll keep that for deck lists.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Nath of the Gilt-leaf is also a good card.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Yea, y'all mention a lot of cards that I have played with BG strategies, and I am willing to look at a lot of cards (heck, I will be using jmlima's list of cards as I develop the primer more), I just want to be clear that as we do that we don't veer off into other decks and muddy the waters. I think that there is also a potential budget BG Aggro Rock deck that could be made and developed which would curve lower, but the reason I called this Big Rock is that I felt it was more like the original deck and is more what I want to develop. This is not an admonition in any way, just some things I may not have been clear enough about in the primer that I probably need to add.
jmlima: Many of the cards on that I looked at with varying degrees of interest and seriousness, and will go into them a bit more later as I have time. One card I do want to mention before I forget for consideration in the SB is Deathmark. I am getting word back from Zoo players that this card hoses them effectively and cheaply.
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Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Nath is worth testing I think, I just have not done so in Modern. Gaze is probably too expensive- I couldn't make it work well in Standard and that is a slower format.
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That's fair enough. The key to good budget decks is not to try to emulate the expensive ones (in this instance with low curves) but to go a different way that does not require the same tools.
(Having said that, there are a lot of big mana creatures in your list, I wonder if Garruk Wildspeaker would bee the right Garruk...)
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I like the power level that you can get to in this deck with some of the more obscure cards. Phyrexian Arena might be better than Read the Bones. I'm not sure though.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
That said, if I were to run land fetch I would not go for straight CA, rather I would look at speed too in the form of Harrow.
I have gone back and forth on this as well, and I need to do more testing on both sides.
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Look at the Punishment side.
I mentioned that prior. Gaze does a great job against Zoo, and can be cast as early as turn 3 with any form of ramp. Also having game versus Affinity is good. I have a ton of budget minded guys at my shop and they all play Affinity. The deck is very cheap to build if you don't use the Opals.
Grave Titan and [Primeval Titan[/c] are both worth a look if you are going "Big".
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Wall of Roots
Other Creatures
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Troll Ascetic
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Shriekmaw
2 Acidic Slime
3 Thragtusk
3 Desecration Demon
Wranglers
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Phyrexian Arena
Land
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Treetop Village
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Witchstalker
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Shriekmaw
2 Putrefy
3 Obstinate Baloth
As you can see I took a suggestion and replaced Read the Bones with Phyrexian Arena, and I think it is a permanent change. This deck can take advantage of Arena so well. For this test run I reigned in the top end of the deck and dropped my beloved Rampaging Baloths and added two more Desecration Demons. I have had a lot of early success with it, and it is pretty skill testing for my opponent- especially when their gameplan is to amass lots of creatures and they keep having to sack them. The fact that it is not legendary means multiples can be in play at once, and they are super efficient to play. You would definitely want to side it out vs tokens though. I also put in Garruk Wildspeaker in place of Garruk Relentless even though I was lowering the top end because I really find that it makes tokens so much easier. Lastly I moved Witchstalker to the SB and added an extra Kitchen Finks and Abrupt Decay to the MD. Witchstalker can be great in certain matchups, but it really is not MD material, whereas Finks is a pretty big player right now, and another kill spell is always a good thing.
One thing y'all could try, if anyone is testing this, is Courser of Kruphix in place of finks or Troll Ascetic. I have them in meatspace, but at almost 9 tix a piece on MTGO I don't think I will be grabbing any soon. I don't know though...maybe I will. Anyway, it has some very valuable junk in the tunk and it has pseudo card advantage, along with life gain. Having Finks, Courser, and Thragtusk in the deck could make this deck very hard for non-combo decks to take down.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!