Has anybody tried Goblin Rabblemaster in their zoo deck? Very easy to cast and seems like it would fit into a number of different styles of zoo. I haven't seen it in any lists but it seems too obvious to think that no one has tried it.
Hi guys. I am a standard player but my local shop are going to organize more modern tournaments than before. I was wondering if I could make some budget Naya, coz I've got 4 Wooded Foothils and 4 Windswept Heath. I am looking for first modern deck in my entire history which is few years (only limited and standard). I know how to play, I have won some gamedays and drafts, but I don't know modern at all. I also got 4 Scavenging Ooze. I can buy few shocklands (not many!), and some other cheap cards. Do you have any suggestion for me? Is zoo deck good deck for starting journey with modern format? Cheers.
Yes Zoo is a great starting point for Modern, and you don't need goyfs. I personally think they are overrated. If I were you, I would try to pick up Stomping Ground, Temple Garden, and Sacred Foundry if you haven't already while they are still cheap.
With the abilities of Kird Ape, Wild Nacatl, Loam Lion and Flinthoof Boar, do you feel that in order to fully utilise these one must have the shocks? And if not the shocks, then a change in the creatures needs to occur? Just wondering how budget on land one can go while keeping those 4 core creatures + Scavenging Ooze, Experiment One and Ghor-Clan Rampager. It feels that without shocks it will be severly underpowered on the creature side, let alone the actual mana base
EDIT: I had completely missed Lantern's list which is pretty much exactly what I had been looking for, duh..
Hooting Mandrils is an interesting option and I never really though about it; a trampling body that can come down turn 3-4 (maybe even sooner?) should really help in forcing through some damage, but I am not sure if we need that or a more reliable turn 2 play. The boars are nice, but I was still thinking that a 3/2 split of boar and something else (Ooze? Pridemage?) could be better than Mandrils since we are trampling over with rampagers..
I'm running the exact list and tested other 2 drops... forget it! Hooting mandrills comes down for 3 most of the times. In Lategame you'll be able to cast him for 2 or even 1.
It is counted as a 3-Drop resulting in having 7 3-Drops at all, which is very common in Lantern's List's and has proved to be the exact right amount.
Think further than dividing the 1- and 2-drops into those slots. Think more of: Which one of my 1cmc and 2cmc Cards do i want to play on Turn 2? Scavenging Ooze is a 2-drop indeed, but you'll never want him T2 on board. As soon as he hits the field you want to activate his ability, so think of him more as a T3 play.
Qasali Pridemage and Scavenging Ooze are hatebears that both don't belong here.
I do test Ooze nowadays because i have no clue how to fight POD in another way.
Think of Ooze more as a midrange card. ATM with Delver, Control and Scapeshift it is pretty weak and vulnerable to our gameplan.
The List is created with the purpose of stomping your Opponent and burn him with Helix, bolt and Charm.
So your choices of tweaking the list should be most aggressive. Flinthoof Boar is the most obvious choice because of his haste-clausel, gettin him relevant till midgame (T3 - T5).
Also the sideboard choices reflect this: Destructive Revelry over Qasali Pridemage gettin in for 2dmg is more relevant than having a 2/2 on board.
Nowadays i prefer Molten Rain over Choke because the 2dmg are more relevant vs. a wider area of decks.
Maybe someone is eager to develop Lantern's Budget List to the next stage?
Thinking about it, i come up with some "Upgrades" pushing the Deck to 200 - 250 Bucks.
What I’m doin here is this:
I cut Burn (Boros Charm, Rampager and Flinthoof Boar – which is indeed a “Burn Spell” a lot of times) to open up Space for some Hatebears and Utility.
So I ended up adding the most versatile Bears I could find: Voice of Resurgence and Qasali Pridemage.
Scavenging Ooze fell out of my favor because it has only limited Use ATM. I also considered Dryad Militant in the Slot of Kird Ape, but it only really hoses Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time and Snap / Bolt and dies to Electrolyze, Forked Bolt, Gut Shot, Tiago, Token, Delver and so many others. The expected Ban of Cruise and maybe Dig should solve these Problem.
Voice of Resurgence is beautiful not because she prevents Counterspells sometimes (Cryptic Command, Remand, Mana Leak…) but because of the Token staying on the Battlefield. The Deck runs 22 Creatures (excluding Rampager) and 2 Manlands resulting in a 2/2 to 4/4 (sometimes) Voice Token in Mid- to Lategame.
Qasali Pridemage is the Tool vs. some Sort of Combo Deck (Twin, Ascendancy, Storm) or even Affinity (Nexus, Plating…) and the Exalted-Ability is also fine.
Ajani Vengeant is kind of a “Test-Spot” here. I like Walkers and are not sold on Domri Rade, because Domri is fine but needs a Build with a lot of Creatures to be relevant with all 3 Modes. I also thought about Elspeth, Knight Errant, but couldn’t convince myself to run her.
The Tokens are decent together with a Voice Token but elsewhere I’m not sure about her Power Level.
What should also be noticed here is that Ghor-Clan Rampager is more relevant because of 21 Lands it is also possible to cast him mid-game instead of discarding him all the time.
Hi All,
I've tinkered with this deck quite a bit of the past few months, and fallen in and out of love with it on a weekly basis lol. But, I saw a list running Become Immense with Boros Charm. Bit of a merry Christmas land situation but...
2 fetches + 1 normal land by turn 3.
a 1 drop
a couple of other 1-mana spells, potentially that don't live!
Turn 3 you could swing for 2, mutagenic/gut shot for an extra card, delve to make it 8 (or 10 with mutagenic), and then boros charm to double-strike it - seems like the deck has a viable turn 3 win!
Has anyone looked into a budget version of this? Lantern, I'm looking at you! How many fetches do we need to make delve "viable". How many 1-drops and supporting spells do we think we need??
I like the idea of surprising the opponent - swinging in for 2 on turn 3 seems laughable, but mutagenic + delve + boros is lethal afterwards!!!
The one thing you're missing about that deck is the fact that haste creatures are a huge enabler of the combo. This means Goblin Guide and Monastery Swiftspear are auto includes, as well as Eidolon of the Great Revel. I wouldn't run the deck with less than 8 fetches, but 10 seems to be the right number. This version of Zoo, ''Phyrexian Zoo'', is like a mash up of Burn and Zoo. I feel it fixes all the weaknesses of burn and small Zoo and creates a deck that is fast and has so many options for reach. Turn 1 Swifty+Mutagenic Growth+Mutagenic Growth hits for 7 damage... That's without the nasty things you can do with Become Immense and Boros Charm.
The deck is going to cost around 350 to properly build, but when you take into account how much other lists cost, its not that bad.
I put this deck together and plan on playing it over my burn list for a while to see where it stands. My guess is that it's the best Zoo deck right now, others seem to think 5c Tribal is. Guess we'll see!
Yea the deck is even cheaper than Burn lists! Still I can't help but look at the list and think to myself "this looks like the deck that gets swiftspear banned" lol.
At my LGS last night, a new player was asking about cheap aggro-ish decks to get into Modern with, that could be built for around 200 max. Is pure Gruul Zoo still an option, or is it better to go Naya since there are now two on-colour fetches for under 15 bucks each?
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At my LGS last night, a new player was asking about cheap aggro-ish decks to get into Modern with, that could be built for around 200 max. Is pure Gruul Zoo still an option, or is it better to go Naya since there are now two on-colour fetches for under 15 bucks each?
Yea the deck is even cheaper than Burn lists! Still I can't help but look at the list and think to myself "this looks like the deck that gets swiftspear banned" lol.
Eidolon locks other decks out once you've dropped a ton of damage. Haste creatures are the key because they attack the turn they come out. 4 mana in one turn can net you 16+ damage with one of the haste creatures. They give you the opportunity to dodge removal or wait for a tapout by the opponent.
This seems like the place with the highest amount of discussion for "Phryrexian Zoo" so I'll post here about it I guess.
I'm not entirely sold on Become Immense. Even without the card, the deck is plenty fast. It does win some games though.
Has anyone considered Gitaxian Probe or Manamorphose?
Probe lets me play more optimally and Manamorphose lets me play more basic land. I think would be cutting Vexing Devils and/or Rancors. Both of them also feed Become Immense which means it might mean I run 3 or 4 instead of 2.
Rancor is strong when it sticks. Especially on turn 2, but Vines of Vastwood negates their removal (which keeps up our tempo advantage) and potentially adds an extra 4 damage. Replacing Rancor with Vines means I have 6 spells that protect and/or add damage. But at the same time I lose trampling power.
Right now I have Vines in sideboard though so it's only a game 1 concern right now.
Also, since the deck kind of plays like Burn and Infect had a child, how do you guys feel about Groundswell and Temur Battle Rage? Battle Rage is like a less versatile Boros Charm but it can also give trample which is huge when running into dorks.
I'll be playing some variation of this deck at an upcoming GPT since it looks like a good alternative to Burn and Domain Zoo.
Has anyone considered Gitaxian Probe or Manamorphose?
Probe lets me play more optimally and Manamorphose lets me play more basic land but I think would be cutting Vexing Devils and/or Rancors.
I think this harkens back to the old debates about phy mana cards, fetch lands, and deck thinning back in the zen/scars days. IIRC, the consensus has really come down to deck thinning not being as effective as just maintaining a density of good cards (burn decks).
I think this harkens back to the old debates about phy mana cards, fetch lands, and deck thinning back in the zen/scars days. IIRC, the consensus has really come down to deck thinning not being as effective as just maintaining a density of good cards (burn decks).
Yeah, I missed that whole discussion since I quit for a while right after Shards block.
But after just a little bit of testing, I don't like them because it makes me play weird due to not knowing what I'm going to draw.
And even if it is good, I definitely wouldn't be able to adjust my play style by this Saturday.
Feel free to shoot down this brain-fart if it's totally unworkable, but how viable could savageborn hydra with x=1 or 2 be in this deck? Casting it for such a low p/t certainly is risky given the availability of cheap removal, but it's potential with pump effects and as a mana sink have got me intrigued... Would the deck be better off (not) running viashino slaughtermaster instead?
Feel free to shoot down this brain-fart if it's totally unworkable, but how viable could savageborn hydra with x=1 or 2 be in this deck? Casting it for such a low p/t certainly is risky given the availability of cheap removal, but it's potential with pump effects and as a mana sink have got me intrigued... Would the deck be better off (not) running viashino slaughtermaster instead?
You'd be rather playing Warden of the First Tree or his better Brother in RW (forget the name).
Either choices are more kinda midrange Dudes...
Feel free to shoot down this brain-fart if it's totally unworkable, but how viable could savageborn hydra with x=1 or 2 be in this deck? Casting it for such a low p/t certainly is risky given the availability of cheap removal, but it's potential with pump effects and as a mana sink have got me intrigued... Would the deck be better off (not) running viashino slaughtermaster instead?
You'd be rather playing Warden of the First Tree or his better Brother in RW (forget the name).
Either choices are more kinda midrange Dudes...
Because of not running Goyf i go up to 12 1-Drops and 3 (sometimes hasty) Flinthoof Boar.
The 2 Mana-Slot is placed with 2 Pridemage / 3 Boars which maybe not so well-curved, but i'm running out-of-ideas what to do with the Slot.
I think that company is a bit too high cost for the standard zoo list. A 4+ drop in this deck has got to be a huge threat like siege rhino, thundermaw hellkite, or a planeswalker. I also feel iffy about atarka's command: it's important to have damage that can also dome creatures, so that our own guys can get through problematic blockers. I'm still pretty wedded to pillar of flame and the like.
-sorry to be negative, I just don't think dragons gave us the tools we need. Maybe if ire shaman and den protector didn't need to be cast as morphs before their effects would kick in...
Yes Zoo is a great starting point for Modern, and you don't need goyfs. I personally think they are overrated. If I were you, I would try to pick up Stomping Ground, Temple Garden, and Sacred Foundry if you haven't already while they are still cheap.
I'm running the exact list and tested other 2 drops... forget it!
Hooting mandrills comes down for 3 most of the times. In Lategame you'll be able to cast him for 2 or even 1.
It is counted as a 3-Drop resulting in having 7 3-Drops at all, which is very common in Lantern's List's and has proved to be the exact right amount.
Think further than dividing the 1- and 2-drops into those slots. Think more of: Which one of my 1cmc and 2cmc Cards do i want to play on Turn 2?
Scavenging Ooze is a 2-drop indeed, but you'll never want him T2 on board. As soon as he hits the field you want to activate his ability, so think of him more as a T3 play.
Qasali Pridemage and Scavenging Ooze are hatebears that both don't belong here.
I do test Ooze nowadays because i have no clue how to fight POD in another way.
Think of Ooze more as a midrange card. ATM with Delver, Control and Scapeshift it is pretty weak and vulnerable to our gameplan.
The List is created with the purpose of stomping your Opponent and burn him with Helix, bolt and Charm.
So your choices of tweaking the list should be most aggressive.
Flinthoof Boar is the most obvious choice because of his haste-clausel, gettin him relevant till midgame (T3 - T5).
Also the sideboard choices reflect this:
Destructive Revelry over Qasali Pridemage gettin in for 2dmg is more relevant than having a 2/2 on board.
Nowadays i prefer Molten Rain over Choke because the 2dmg are more relevant vs. a wider area of decks.
Green @ it's best
Green @ it's best
I mean the one in the attachment.
While i tested other builds with
i recognized that none of these "Budget Lists" is kind of a real deal, even not better than the one with Hooting Mandrills.
I still try to figure out what would be a fine Upgrade to the List.
Green @ it's best
Thinking about it, i come up with some "Upgrades" pushing the Deck to 200 - 250 Bucks.
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Treetop Village
1 Stirring Wildwood
21 Lands
4 Loam Lion
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Hooting Mandrills
4 Loxodon Smiter
18 Beater
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Ajani Vengeant
6 Hatebears & Utility
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
15 Burn & Removal
What I’m doin here is this:
I cut Burn (Boros Charm, Rampager and Flinthoof Boar – which is indeed a “Burn Spell” a lot of times) to open up Space for some Hatebears and Utility.
So I ended up adding the most versatile Bears I could find: Voice of Resurgence and Qasali Pridemage.
Scavenging Ooze fell out of my favor because it has only limited Use ATM. I also considered Dryad Militant in the Slot of Kird Ape, but it only really hoses Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time and Snap / Bolt and dies to Electrolyze, Forked Bolt, Gut Shot, Tiago, Token, Delver and so many others. The expected Ban of Cruise and maybe Dig should solve these Problem.
Voice of Resurgence is beautiful not because she prevents Counterspells sometimes (Cryptic Command, Remand, Mana Leak…) but because of the Token staying on the Battlefield. The Deck runs 22 Creatures (excluding Rampager) and 2 Manlands resulting in a 2/2 to 4/4 (sometimes) Voice Token in Mid- to Lategame.
Qasali Pridemage is the Tool vs. some Sort of Combo Deck (Twin, Ascendancy, Storm) or even Affinity (Nexus, Plating…) and the Exalted-Ability is also fine.
Ajani Vengeant is kind of a “Test-Spot” here. I like Walkers and are not sold on Domri Rade, because Domri is fine but needs a Build with a lot of Creatures to be relevant with all 3 Modes. I also thought about Elspeth, Knight Errant, but couldn’t convince myself to run her.
The Tokens are decent together with a Voice Token but elsewhere I’m not sure about her Power Level.
What should also be noticed here is that Ghor-Clan Rampager is more relevant because of 21 Lands it is also possible to cast him mid-game instead of discarding him all the time.
Green @ it's best
The one thing you're missing about that deck is the fact that haste creatures are a huge enabler of the combo. This means Goblin Guide and Monastery Swiftspear are auto includes, as well as Eidolon of the Great Revel. I wouldn't run the deck with less than 8 fetches, but 10 seems to be the right number. This version of Zoo, ''Phyrexian Zoo'', is like a mash up of Burn and Zoo. I feel it fixes all the weaknesses of burn and small Zoo and creates a deck that is fast and has so many options for reach. Turn 1 Swifty+Mutagenic Growth+Mutagenic Growth hits for 7 damage... That's without the nasty things you can do with Become Immense and Boros Charm.
The deck is going to cost around 350 to properly build, but when you take into account how much other lists cost, its not that bad.
I put this deck together and plan on playing it over my burn list for a while to see where it stands. My guess is that it's the best Zoo deck right now, others seem to think 5c Tribal is. Guess we'll see!
BWR THE ARISTAHCRATZ!
Yea, I think it has a lot of potential.
I'm not entirely sold on Become Immense. Even without the card, the deck is plenty fast. It does win some games though.
Has anyone considered Gitaxian Probe or Manamorphose?
Probe lets me play more optimally and Manamorphose lets me play more basic land. I think would be cutting Vexing Devils and/or Rancors. Both of them also feed Become Immense which means it might mean I run 3 or 4 instead of 2.
Rancor is strong when it sticks. Especially on turn 2, but Vines of Vastwood negates their removal (which keeps up our tempo advantage) and potentially adds an extra 4 damage. Replacing Rancor with Vines means I have 6 spells that protect and/or add damage. But at the same time I lose trampling power.
Right now I have Vines in sideboard though so it's only a game 1 concern right now.
Also, since the deck kind of plays like Burn and Infect had a child, how do you guys feel about Groundswell and Temur Battle Rage? Battle Rage is like a less versatile Boros Charm but it can also give trample which is huge when running into dorks.
I'll be playing some variation of this deck at an upcoming GPT since it looks like a good alternative to Burn and Domain Zoo.
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Stomping Ground
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain
Creatures (22):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Ghor-clan Rampager
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning bolt
4 Mutagenic Growth
3 Gut shot
2 Become Immense
2 Rancor
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Dismember
1 Gut Shot
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
3 Vines of Vastwood
Modern Naya Zoo
I think this harkens back to the old debates about phy mana cards, fetch lands, and deck thinning back in the zen/scars days. IIRC, the consensus has really come down to deck thinning not being as effective as just maintaining a density of good cards (burn decks).
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Yeah, I missed that whole discussion since I quit for a while right after Shards block.
But after just a little bit of testing, I don't like them because it makes me play weird due to not knowing what I'm going to draw.
And even if it is good, I definitely wouldn't be able to adjust my play style by this Saturday.
Modern Naya Zoo
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
You'd be rather playing Warden of the First Tree or his better Brother in RW (forget the name).
Either choices are more kinda midrange Dudes...
If you wanna run Mana Sinks in an aggressive build start with Scavenging Ooze, Treetop Village, Kessig Wolf Run or Stirring Wildwood.
A 3 Mana Hydra with 1/1 isn't quite impressive in Modern nowadays.
Green @ it's best
no Goofys at all, I'll stay on Budget.
However, DTK got us some new Bombs.
A budgetized Version of what Lantern is running nowadays could be this:
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Kessig Wolf Run
20 Lands
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
3 Flinthoof Boar
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of the Reliquary
25 Creatures
4 Path to Exile
3 Atarka's Command
2 Collected Company
2 Lightning Helix
15 Burn & Removal
Because of not running Goyf i go up to 12 1-Drops and 3 (sometimes hasty) Flinthoof Boar.
The 2 Mana-Slot is placed with 2 Pridemage / 3 Boars which maybe not so well-curved, but i'm running out-of-ideas what to do with the Slot.
Burn & Removal is what up-to-date-List's run, Lightning Helix is a flex spot.
Maybe i'll fit Boros Charm or Dromoka's Command in, depending on how Helix performs.
What's your Sight on the List?
I was running Hooting Mandrills till now, but the Ape doesn't work well with Collected Company sadly
Green @ it's best
-sorry to be negative, I just don't think dragons gave us the tools we need. Maybe if ire shaman and den protector didn't need to be cast as morphs before their effects would kick in...
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."