Why not play Bant Sureblade over Naya Hushblade first strike seems more relevant, especially if you run rancor as it can't target hushblade.
Edit 1: for clarification, this is regarding the type of deck in the $75-150 range type of naya deck. You would be sacrificing bolt protection for utility against Kitchen Finks and others: goblin guide, BOB, early tarmo, and most of the hate bears.
This is my budget zoo list I'm considering for a ptq next month, any thoughts?
btw, I'm borrowing the fetches.
I just started playing zoo, the only thing I see is with just 1x militant and 1x Figure of destiny as turn one multi color drops the jund hackblades will be bad turn two drops unless you get BTE.
Yeah, I've kind of noticed in testing a bit so far. I think I'm going to drop him for flinthoofs. I just really liked the haste he had when he did. The original list I ran him in had cackler over the kird apes which allowed him to swing turn 2 more often.
The best in Gruul Zoo is that it's fast and I think keeping this speed should be a priority. I'm skeptical about anything that slows it down. I would avoid midrange phase at all costs, especially in budget version. Bow of Nylea could help against walls but wouldn't be too slow? I mean attack even by the creature with deathtouch wouldn't push any damage and a turn without hiting damage is turn lost. Meybe just some removal, something like Dismember or Flame Slash would be better? Problem is any creature with 4 toughness (Deceiver Exarch, Spellskite, Wall of Omens, Village Bell-Ringer, etc.). And even trample over it means 4 damage less. It's like using Ghor-Clan Rampager only as a 2 mana removal. Analogously using Dismember is in this case as a 4 more damage for 1 mana and 4 life. I think it's lucrative. Of course if we don't want to splash white for Path to Exile
after play testing the deck I agree 100 percent. Eventually, when I have the money, I will go to a naya build; but until then speed is key. After a little bit more initial tweaking I will post the list for some advice.
So here is my deck for the budget i had ( dismember, and other upgrades coming later when i have the money) Been running it on MTGO and it isdoing pretty good. Any super budget additions for now, or priority to upgrade in the future? ( Keeping in mind I eventually want to go Naya)
E1 survives removal when he is 3/3 and can be dropped of BTE with a Red 1 drop if I need it, like BTE, E1 then Goblin Guide pumping E1 to 2/2 then Flinthoof Boar or Jund Hackblade on turn 3. Kird Ape has the bigger butt that survives past lots of 2 drops the opponent would have. I would recommend Goblin Guide to help give you a quicker attack over Dryad Militant.
Thrun, the Last Troll is a really good option vs control, Delver and midrange but I havent been able to push out a few cards to fit him in. It always seems like there are so many cards you want to fit in but not enough space.
E1 survives removal when he is 3/3 and can be dropped of BTE with a Red 1 drop if I need it, like BTE, E1 then Goblin Guide pumping E1 to 2/2 then Flinthoof Boar or Jund Hackblade on turn 3. Kird Ape has the bigger butt that survives past lots of 2 drops the opponent would have. I would recommend Goblin Guide to help give you a quicker attack over Dryad Militant.
Thrun, the Last Troll is a really good option vs control, Delver and midrange but I havent been able to push out a few cards to fit him in. It always seems like there are so many cards you want to fit in but not enough space.
Thanks for the info, Goblin Guide is definitely in the "Want but can't afford at the second" list. I will sub in some lighning mauler and see how things go. By the time i get Goblin Guide hopefully i will have the shock lands to go Full naya and use the Loam lion, Kird ape, and Wild Nactal.
Edit1: The Lightning Mauler does seem to help out with consistency of early game kills.
Thanks guys. I swapped back to flinthoof and it's running smoother. I'm now testing dropping the figure for a 4th or figure and militant for lightning helix or boros charm. I know charm and Rampager can just win out of nowhere, not to mention 4 to the dome or resilience to removal.
So here is my deck for the budget i had ( dismember, and other upgrades coming later when i have the money) Been running it on MTGO and it isdoing pretty good. Any super budget additions for now, or priority to upgrade in the future? ( Keeping in mind I eventually want to go Naya)
So here is my deck for the budget i had ( dismember, and other upgrades coming later when i have the money) Been running it on MTGO and it isdoing pretty good. Any super budget additions for now, or priority to upgrade in the future? ( Keeping in mind I eventually want to go Naya)
Threw Thrun in because I had one, and he seems to help versus control if they stabilize.
The only card Id suggest is fetches which is an eventually down the line. Thrun seems fine, but you'll rarely have the mana cast it realisticly. I cant tell you a better 3 drop though, as gruul lacks a 3 drop on power level of knight, smiter and woolly thoctar.
Burning-tree shaman sometimes works as an effective gruul zoo 3-drop but. honestly, there are enough good 1-2 drops that budget zoo shouldn't have to slow itself down, unless your local meta really calls for it.
So here is my deck for the budget i had ( dismember, and other upgrades coming later when i have the money) Been running it on MTGO and it isdoing pretty good. Any super budget additions for now, or priority to upgrade in the future? ( Keeping in mind I eventually want to go Naya)
So here is my deck for the budget i had ( dismember, and other upgrades coming later when i have the money) Been running it on MTGO and it isdoing pretty good. Any super budget additions for now, or priority to upgrade in the future? ( Keeping in mind I eventually want to go Naya)
Threw Thrun in because I had one, and he seems to help versus control if they stabilize.
The only card Id suggest is fetches which is an eventually down the line. Thrun seems fine, but you'll rarely have the mana cast it realisticly. I cant tell you a better 3 drop though, as gruul lacks a 3 drop on power level of knight, smiter and woolly thoctar.
I use leatherback baloth in stompy, but I think the color weight is s little too high for this deck.
Edit: the only other budget option would be Boggart Ram-Gang which is a boar that you have to pay the haste for.
Threw Thrun in because I had one, and he seems to help versus control if they stabilize.
The only card Id suggest is fetches which is an eventually down the line. Thrun seems fine, but you'll rarely have the mana cast it realisticly. I cant tell you a better 3 drop though, as gruul lacks a 3 drop on power level of knight, smiter and woolly thoctar.
I use leatherback baloth in stompy, but I think the color weight is s little too high for this deck.
Edit: the only other budget option would be Boggart Ram-Gang which is a boar that you have to pay the haste for.
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Well, and its got wither. So when it trades against finks, it kills it dead. (dies from being a 0/-1 with counters, and stays dead.) Which even though is a corner case, things to remember. Speaking of the devil known as finks, finks is also an option. though its role is different then thrun. Thrun kills rock and control decks, Finks kills aggro decks, but at least can survive a wipe.
Oh and a tip to make deck listing easier on here. When you use deck, /deck code, you dont need to add card,/card on all the choices. The deck code does it auto for you.
Its like... Impossable with out shocks. I just couldnt make it work. You can do it without fetches, but you need that shocks
So my next upgrade is going to be going from Gruul to Naya; I will have all 12 shock lands (but no fetches), the question I have is: is it more reliable to go Kird Ape, Wild Nacatl, Loam Lion, or to go Dryad Militant, Rakdos Cackler, Jund Hackblade, Bant Sureblade? Just want to know everyone's thoughts before i build one style or the other. Also once you go full Naya does BTE help you all that much? Just looking at ways to focus my resources. Thanks for all the help everyone.
I would also say for you to consider Experiment One. If your heading toward Naya then the 1 drops of Ape, Nacatl and Lion are a better bet. I think having 2 weaker 1 drops so you can have Hackblade and Sureblade may not be as good because Naya opens you up to Loxodon Smiter and a few other options. Personally running the Gruul is not a powerhouse as Naya the build but Ive found that it has been much faster with all the Haste I can run with these guys
If I run Naya I may have to add Lightning Greaves so everything I drop can swing as soon as it gets in and gives it some protection. Im toying with a build now.
I would also say for you to consider Experiment One. If your heading toward Naya then the 1 drops of Ape, Nacatl and Lion are a better bet. I think having 2 weaker 1 drops so you can have Hackblade and Sureblade may not be as good because Naya opens you up to Loxodon Smiter and a few other options. Personally running the Gruul is not a powerhouse as Naya the build but Ive found that it has been much faster with all the Haste I can run with these guys
If I run Naya I may have to add Lightning Greaves so everything I drop can swing as soon as it gets in and gives it some protection. Im toying with a build now.
Yeah i was evolving the gruul deck i have so E1 flinthoof, and scavenging ooze wil stay in, i will definitely be running smiter, i was just needing help with the one drop package naya can bring, still probably cant afford the guides with the extra shock lands but i know they are amazing. I really appreciate the advice.
You lose some speed going from gruul to naya but you gain a ton of stablity. Thats basicly the main difference between the budget list I provide and naya. Id say full shocks is about... 75% good to turn on lions apes and cats. 4 fetches, 12 shocks is when you start getting up to 90%. from there your basicly only adding in 1% per fetch.
Edit 1: for clarification, this is regarding the type of deck in the $75-150 range type of naya deck. You would be sacrificing bolt protection for utility against Kitchen Finks and others: goblin guide, BOB, early tarmo, and most of the hate bears.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
4x Burning-tree Emissary
1x Dryad militant
4x experiment one
1x Figure of desting
4x Ghor-clan rampager
4x goblin guide
3x Jund hackblade
4x kird ape
2x Scavenging ooze
2x vexing devil
4x wild nacatl
2x rancor
4x Lightning bolt
3x path to exile
lands
1x arid mesa
1x copperline gorge
1x forest
3x mountain
2x sacred foundry
2x scalding tarn
3x stomping ground
1x temple garden
4x verdant catacombs
This is my budget zoo list I'm considering for a ptq next month, any thoughts?
btw, I'm borrowing the fetches.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
4 Experiment One
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Dryad Militant
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Jund Hackblade
4 Flinthoof Boar
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rancor
2 Pillar of Flame
Lands 19
4 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Choke
2 Combust
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pillar of flame
2 Mutagenic Growth
Threw Thrun in because I had one, and he seems to help versus control if they stabilize.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
E1 survives removal when he is 3/3 and can be dropped of BTE with a Red 1 drop if I need it, like BTE, E1 then Goblin Guide pumping E1 to 2/2 then Flinthoof Boar or Jund Hackblade on turn 3. Kird Ape has the bigger butt that survives past lots of 2 drops the opponent would have. I would recommend Goblin Guide to help give you a quicker attack over Dryad Militant.
Thrun, the Last Troll is a really good option vs control, Delver and midrange but I havent been able to push out a few cards to fit him in. It always seems like there are so many cards you want to fit in but not enough space.
Edit1: The Lightning Mauler does seem to help out with consistency of early game kills.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
The only card Id suggest is fetches which is an eventually down the line. Thrun seems fine, but you'll rarely have the mana cast it realisticly. I cant tell you a better 3 drop though, as gruul lacks a 3 drop on power level of knight, smiter and woolly thoctar.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Edit: the only other budget option would be Boggart Ram-Gang which is a boar that you have to pay the haste for.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Well, and its got wither. So when it trades against finks, it kills it dead. (dies from being a 0/-1 with counters, and stays dead.) Which even though is a corner case, things to remember. Speaking of the devil known as finks, finks is also an option. though its role is different then thrun. Thrun kills rock and control decks, Finks kills aggro decks, but at least can survive a wipe.
Oh and a tip to make deck listing easier on here. When you use deck, /deck code, you dont need to add card,/card on all the choices. The deck code does it auto for you.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
If I run Naya I may have to add Lightning Greaves so everything I drop can swing as soon as it gets in and gives it some protection. Im toying with a build now.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR