i don't know, an 8/8 with trample is kinda hard to deal with on turns 2 or 3. knowing wotc past behavior they will drag their feet on a decision but i don't see why.
It seems really unlikely to me Hogaak doesn't get nuked, the more I've seen it in action the more it becomes clear it really is a league of its own compared to all of the other unfair decks in modern. I have some trips planned for upcoming larger tournaments, and if they goof banning Hogaak I'm just going to cancel those trips. There comes a moment where you can stop measuring with your thermometer because the house is clearly on fire.
maybe its utterly dominant or warping or whatever, but that would be what - 3 to 4 months total? in the grand scheme of things that is barely anything.
I don't know about you but if someone would prohibit me from doing something I love doing for 3-4 months, I would be pissed. Also, I haven't looked it up, but haven't we had fast bans like these before? I feel like Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise were banned on a similar time scale.
You all know I am against bans normally, but this time hoogak need to go. I use 4 relic main and 3-4 surgicals in my side, but this doesn't helped me and they laugh about. Turn 2 you see 6 creatures like me last time is fair? Even I used surgical? At this moment I have 1 land in play and this without Altar... So I think hoogak needs to go. Dyed turn 2 and 3 and I was not the only one. If they don't ban it, I will use 10 gravehate side and main next time to have a chance
Exactly. Having to play that many pieces of graveyard hate just to slow it down is very unhealthy. Outside of 2 bans, the only ban that will somewhat contain the deck is Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis. Take it from someone who plays the deck...
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Re: Challenge results
As I wrote in the Reddit post, the Challenge results are both laughably bad (32% Hogaak Vine = lulz) and relatively isolated. Did Hogaak have an outrageous debut at this single Challenge? Absolutely, and it would be misleading to deny that. But it's just as misleading to oversell the results of a single Challenge. For one, it's a single datapoint on the debut weekend of a deck. There are so many factors that both artificially increase (e.g. players don't know how to play against it, SB decisions, hype, etc.) and decrease (card availability, untuned decks, pilots don't know tricks with the deck, etc.) prevalence in such a single datapoint. Given these limitations, it's hard to draw a meaningful conclusion. Second, it's not even a major paper event. It's "just" an MTGO Challenge, which we have routinely (and rightfully) questioned as representative of the metagame on any given weekend. Significant paper results or repeat online results are needed to really figure out where the deck stands in the metagame.
Re: ban decisions
Wizards has issued one emergency ban in over a decade (Felidar), which was more of an oversight acknowledgement than a response to a pattern of troubling results. There is no way we see emergency ban action based on a single Challenge. Wizards has repeatedly shown, despite the blaring ban mania in online communities, that they will wait for sustained results before acting on a ban.
I encourage community members to stick to the proven method of ban analysis: waiting for more data and taking a long, conservative view of the format. Recognize the metagame's ability to adapt and acknowledge that most decks have more weaknesses than we think. This method has produced consistent predictions of changes and no changes for years now. Even if Hogaak Vine is ultimately bannable, that does not mean we throw out the proven, conservative method and revert to a ban mania mindframe. If you throw enough darts at a board, eventually you'll get a bullseye even if your technique is horrible. That doesn't mean we look at the bullseye and say "NAILED IT" with all of our bad technique throws. We stick with the technique that works.
I am going to quote ktkenshinx's comment here as I think it will help us get some focus and not deviate from our ban analysis method.
There is a Modern GP next weekend, that will likely be our first large data sample since the release of Modern Horizons, maybe the deck is broken and needs a ban but we currently don't have enough data.
Re: Challenge results
As I wrote in the Reddit post, the Challenge results are both laughably bad (32% Hogaak Vine = lulz) and relatively isolated. Did Hogaak have an outrageous debut at this single Challenge? Absolutely, and it would be misleading to deny that. But it's just as misleading to oversell the results of a single Challenge. For one, it's a single datapoint on the debut weekend of a deck. There are so many factors that both artificially increase (e.g. players don't know how to play against it, SB decisions, hype, etc.) and decrease (card availability, untuned decks, pilots don't know tricks with the deck, etc.) prevalence in such a single datapoint. Given these limitations, it's hard to draw a meaningful conclusion. Second, it's not even a major paper event. It's "just" an MTGO Challenge, which we have routinely (and rightfully) questioned as representative of the metagame on any given weekend. Significant paper results or repeat online results are needed to really figure out where the deck stands in the metagame.
Re: ban decisions
Wizards has issued one emergency ban in over a decade (Felidar), which was more of an oversight acknowledgement than a response to a pattern of troubling results. There is no way we see emergency ban action based on a single Challenge. Wizards has repeatedly shown, despite the blaring ban mania in online communities, that they will wait for sustained results before acting on a ban.
I encourage community members to stick to the proven method of ban analysis: waiting for more data and taking a long, conservative view of the format. Recognize the metagame's ability to adapt and acknowledge that most decks have more weaknesses than we think. This method has produced consistent predictions of changes and no changes for years now. Even if Hogaak Vine is ultimately bannable, that does not mean we throw out the proven, conservative method and revert to a ban mania mindframe. If you throw enough darts at a board, eventually you'll get a bullseye even if your technique is horrible. That doesn't mean we look at the bullseye and say "NAILED IT" with all of our bad technique throws. We stick with the technique that works.
I am going to quote ktkenshinx's comment here as I think it will help us get some focus and not deviate from our ban analysis method.
There is a Modern GP next weekend, that will likely be our first large data sample since the release of Modern Horizons, maybe the deck is broken and needs a ban but we currently don't have enough data.
^this. I don't know if the deck is broken, it sounds like it probably is. But I am not prepared to pass judgment when there have only been a couple events, so close to release. A large event like this a couple weeks removed from the launch of the set is worth a lot more.
That said, I hope they don't ban either of the new cards. If they ban Altar or Hogaak, that doesn't actually help us when they print another broken graveyard card no later than the fall set, and honestly probably in Core. They don't learn, they don't change, it feels like they break those decks specifically in every single set. They need to ban Bridge if something has to go. Maybe Bloodghast, just so we can stop seeing the same deck over and over again, just with a new bauble that lets it keep doing the same thing
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The Altar plan might not be deterministic without Bridge, but would it still be potent enough to be viable? Banning Hogaak would certainly neuter Altar to the point where it wouldn't be.
Rhe report says they were surprised it was not played more, being so dominant: "We had two copies of the deck in our Hamilton Top 8, and from where I’m sitting, that number is actually pretty low for how good this deck is compared to the rest of the format."
Either buy it now or sell it now, I'd say.
PS: many decks in the top had GY hate in the main, plus extra in SB. Examples: both phoenix 3x surgical main, 3x trap in SB. 2nd place Jund had 2x ooze main, 4x leyline, 1x nihil, SB.
The report says they were surprised it was not played more, being so dominant: "We had two copies of the deck in our Hamilton Top 8, and from where I’m sitting, that number is actually pretty low for how good this deck is compared to the rest of the format."
Either buy it now or sell it now, I'd say.
People are likely hesitant to buy in since it will very likely be banned. With Eldrazi, the opportunity cost of so many free wins was small since, other than Eye of Ugin, pretty much everything in the deck was dirt cheap and available in current Standard sets. If you don't have Vengevines, Bloodghasts, Bridges, Gravecrawlers, and Hogaak himself (in addition to the black fetchlands, you're looking at a LOT of money to buy into a deck that is very likely not set to live past July 8th.
It's a lot easier and faster to buy/sell/change decks on MTGO, but paper metas are much slower. Buying cards is a more weighty investment, and selling them is slow and arduous for most players. As a result, paper metas are often filled with Cards_I_Own.dec (also helping to contribute to the idea of "diversity").
The Altar plan might not be deterministic without Bridge, but would it still be potent enough to be viable? Banning Hoogak would certainly neuter Altar to the point where it wouldn't be.
Banning Hogaak would certainly kill this version of the deck. So at the cost of the actual most interesting design in the set, we would get a reprieve....for what a month or two? Then something else steps into that same shell and the cool card is banned for years. If something needs to go, it's not the big beater that requires work, it's the stuff that keeps taking these fair and neat cards and doing awful things with them. Like Eye of Ugin wasn't broken, it was the genius who decided to make Eldrazi do something the tribe was never meant to have.
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The Altar plan might not be deterministic without Bridge, but would it still be potent enough to be viable? Banning Hoogak would certainly neuter Altar to the point where it wouldn't be.
Banning Hogaak would certainly kill this version of the deck. So at the cost of the actual most interesting design in the set, we would get a reprieve....for what a month or two? Then something else steps into that same shell and the cool card is banned for years. If something needs to go, it's not the big beater that requires work, it's the stuff that keeps taking these fair and neat cards and doing awful things with them. Like Eye of Ugin wasn't broken, it was the genius who decided to make Eldrazi do something the tribe was never meant to have.
Eye was broken.
Regardless, I agree. Dont ban Hogaak. Thats a neat card doing crazy things...on the back of Bridge, and Altar.
Just remove Bridge if you are of the 'it has interesting lines of play' mindset, or both Bridge and Altar/Ghast if you want to 'nuke from orbit'.
I also fear the F2F event is what may happen this weekend, and why I'm absolutely BEGGING people to play Hogaak at the GP/SCG event. If its anything but overwhelming, we are stuck with this thing for at least a few months, and that would really suck.
Rhe report says they were surprised it was not played more, being so dominant: "We had two copies of the deck in our Hamilton Top 8, and from where I’m sitting, that number is actually pretty low for how good this deck is compared to the rest of the format."
Either buy it now or sell it now, I'd say.
PS: many decks in the top had GY hate in the main, plus extra in SB. Examples: both phoenix 3x surgical main, 3x trap in SB. 2nd place Jund had 2x ooze main, 4x leyline, 1x nihil, SB.
you know how many players was there? Can't find this information
The Altar plan might not be deterministic without Bridge, but would it still be potent enough to be viable? Banning Hoogak would certainly neuter Altar to the point where it wouldn't be.
Banning Hogaak would certainly kill this version of the deck. So at the cost of the actual most interesting design in the set, we would get a reprieve....for what a month or two? Then something else steps into that same shell and the cool card is banned for years. If something needs to go, it's not the big beater that requires work, it's the stuff that keeps taking these fair and neat cards and doing awful things with them. Like Eye of Ugin wasn't broken, it was the genius who decided to make Eldrazi do something the tribe was never meant to have.
Eye was broken.
Regardless, I agree. Dont ban Hogaak. Thats a neat card doing crazy things...on the back of Bridge, and Altar.
Just remove Bridge if you are of the 'it has interesting lines of play' mindset, or both Bridge and Altar/Ghast if you want to 'nuke from orbit'.
I also fear the F2F event is what may happen this weekend, and why I'm absolutely BEGGING people to play Hogaak at the GP/SCG event. If its anything but overwhelming, we are stuck with this thing for at least a few months, and that would really suck.
I think that if any one card should get banned if (when) it comes to that, Bridge is the true abusive engine card. I think banning Hogaak effectively takes Altar out of playability, and that a graveyard-based deck with a mill angle would be more competitive and fun (even taken down a peg by losing Bridge) than an otherwise pre-Horizons Bridgevine deck with Carrion Feeder added.
I think that if any one card should get banned if (when) it comes to that, Bridge is the true abusive engine card. I think banning Hogaak effectively takes Altar out of playability, and that a graveyard-based deck with a mill angle would be more competitive and fun (even taken down a peg by losing Bridge) than an otherwise pre-Horizons Bridgevine deck with Carrion Feeder added.
I think thats fair. Its not like Hogaak is some stupid pushed thing like several of the new Eldrazi, but a card that has real hoops to jump through to cast. Altar as a secondary win condition is fine, if that win condition is not hitting the table and rendering someone's deck to 0 with very few options to respond to it.
Removing both Bridge and Altar, would obliterate the deck, while leaving Hogaak and Altar would give us 3 distinct flavours (at least) of GY decks.
Dredge -> Creatures and Conflag
Phoenix -> Creatures and Burn/'Storming'
Hogaak -> Creatures and Mill
The problem is like someone's signature used to point out here, that for Combo to be viable (and Hogaak is Combo with the Altar) it must be faster than Aggro, the problem is...well Modern is a Turn 4 format, at least in theory, and being 'dead' to Mill before you play a 3rd land, is not acceptable.
My vote will remain Bridge. Lets see how the weekend goes. :]
First of all, I agree that Bridge from Below has no place in Modern. The card is literally used only in decks that can abuse it well. How else can you understand the costs of potentially having multiple copies stuck in your hand, where it does nothing?
But Hogaak is definitely the ban that will stop turn 2/3 Hogaaks, but allow Bridge Vine to move on slightly better than before. (Bridge Vine was fine before. I tried Gerry T's Pro Tour list and did Top 8, miss top 8 barely being 1 turn short, and 2-4 another of 3 PPTQs I played it before I stopped. Once it became a known commodity, the deck was just another Tier 1/Tier 2 deck. Hogaak pushes it past that. Altar is not playable outside of Hogaak existing.)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I dont believe BridgeVine was teir 1 at all. It had no plan b whatsoever.
In the end, I would rather we have Hogaak/Altar, than Bridge/Altar.
Probably true. When Stitcher's Supplier came out, Bridge Vine did well for a very short period of time. Much of that could have been player's uncertainty on the deck. I personally felt at the time that outside of Humans, there wasn't much else I cannot beat in Game 1. Games 2 and 3 were different, as extreme grave hate turned my deck into trying to win with a 2/1 and a 1/1 Menace.
So, you may certainly be right. I just don't think banning Bridge ONLY solves a turn 2/3 Hogaak and I don't think that's acceptable You can ask the Path to Exile crowd and they may believe so, but most others probably don't.
When Bloodbraid Elf was banned, I had told people for months that Deathrite Shaman should have been the ban. I had played against Bloodbraid Elf for years and years - an amazing card, but not really broken. I mostly heard 2 answers to this - indifference and "no, it should be Bloodbraid Elf." I think Wizards is reticent of such a mistake and would not like to do it again. Hogaak is not even selling Modern Horizons. There's tons of good cards and Hogaak went from $35 to $5 now. I would say that even Plague Engineer has more hype, going from $1 to $4 now.
On another note, the funny thing to me is that after Deathrite Shaman eventually got banned and then Bloodbraid Elf unbanned years later, most people I know started saying that it was the correct ban all along. Where were these people when Bloodbraid Elf originally got banned? I literally don't know.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
A Neoform or Eldritch Evolution off a Birds for Yixlid Jailer should be fast enough to keep up with Hogaak. It's a toolbox sort of shell so should have other applications as well. Pair with some counter magic to protect the Jailer, drop some decent beaters and it isn't the worst plan. A hard counter should put some pressure on the meta game share.
A Neoform or Eldritch Evolution off a Birds for Yixlid Jailer should be fast enough to keep up with Hogaak. It's a toolbox sort of shell so should have other applications as well. Pair with some counter magic to protect the Jailer, drop some decent beaters and it isn't the worst plan. A hard counter should put some pressure on the meta game share.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
The report says they were surprised it was not played more, being so dominant: "We had two copies of the deck in our Hamilton Top 8, and from where I’m sitting, that number is actually pretty low for how good this deck is compared to the rest of the format."
Either buy it now or sell it now, I'd say.
People are likely hesitant to buy in since it will very likely be banned. With Eldrazi, the opportunity cost of so many free wins was small since, other than Eye of Ugin, pretty much everything in the deck was dirt cheap and available in current Standard sets. If you don't have Vengevines, Bloodghasts, Bridges, Gravecrawlers, and Hogaak himself (in addition to the black fetchlands, you're looking at a LOT of money to buy into a deck that is very likely not set to live past July 8th.
It's a lot easier and faster to buy/sell/change decks on MTGO, but paper metas are much slower. Buying cards is a more weighty investment, and selling them is slow and arduous for most players. As a result, paper metas are often filled with Cards_I_Own.dec (also helping to contribute to the idea of "diversity").
This is definitely a thing, I expect a lot of people assume the deck will be gone in such a short timespan it's not worth investing money and time into; the deck is pretty hard to pilot optimally.
If WotC ruins modern for 3 months on July 8th, I expect the Hogaak share to explode
anyway, joking aside. I do understand that some people have spent money on their Hogaak decks.. so I don't want it to completely nuked. Only want the mill win con to be removed.. just the altar or just the bridge. No need to ban Hogaak itself.
I don't know about you but if someone would prohibit me from doing something I love doing for 3-4 months, I would be pissed. Also, I haven't looked it up, but haven't we had fast bans like these before? I feel like Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise were banned on a similar time scale.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I am going to quote ktkenshinx's comment here as I think it will help us get some focus and not deviate from our ban analysis method.
There is a Modern GP next weekend, that will likely be our first large data sample since the release of Modern Horizons, maybe the deck is broken and needs a ban but we currently don't have enough data.
^this. I don't know if the deck is broken, it sounds like it probably is. But I am not prepared to pass judgment when there have only been a couple events, so close to release. A large event like this a couple weeks removed from the launch of the set is worth a lot more.
That said, I hope they don't ban either of the new cards. If they ban Altar or Hogaak, that doesn't actually help us when they print another broken graveyard card no later than the fall set, and honestly probably in Core. They don't learn, they don't change, it feels like they break those decks specifically in every single set. They need to ban Bridge if something has to go. Maybe Bloodghast, just so we can stop seeing the same deck over and over again, just with a new bauble that lets it keep doing the same thing
It's like the Eye/Temple discussion with Eldrazi.
Bridge is dumb and without it the Altar plan goes away.
Spirits
Rhe report says they were surprised it was not played more, being so dominant: "We had two copies of the deck in our Hamilton Top 8, and from where I’m sitting, that number is actually pretty low for how good this deck is compared to the rest of the format."
Either buy it now or sell it now, I'd say.
PS: many decks in the top had GY hate in the main, plus extra in SB. Examples: both phoenix 3x surgical main, 3x trap in SB. 2nd place Jund had 2x ooze main, 4x leyline, 1x nihil, SB.
People are likely hesitant to buy in since it will very likely be banned. With Eldrazi, the opportunity cost of so many free wins was small since, other than Eye of Ugin, pretty much everything in the deck was dirt cheap and available in current Standard sets. If you don't have Vengevines, Bloodghasts, Bridges, Gravecrawlers, and Hogaak himself (in addition to the black fetchlands, you're looking at a LOT of money to buy into a deck that is very likely not set to live past July 8th.
It's a lot easier and faster to buy/sell/change decks on MTGO, but paper metas are much slower. Buying cards is a more weighty investment, and selling them is slow and arduous for most players. As a result, paper metas are often filled with Cards_I_Own.dec (also helping to contribute to the idea of "diversity").
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Banning Hogaak would certainly kill this version of the deck. So at the cost of the actual most interesting design in the set, we would get a reprieve....for what a month or two? Then something else steps into that same shell and the cool card is banned for years. If something needs to go, it's not the big beater that requires work, it's the stuff that keeps taking these fair and neat cards and doing awful things with them. Like Eye of Ugin wasn't broken, it was the genius who decided to make Eldrazi do something the tribe was never meant to have.
Eye was broken.
Regardless, I agree. Dont ban Hogaak. Thats a neat card doing crazy things...on the back of Bridge, and Altar.
Just remove Bridge if you are of the 'it has interesting lines of play' mindset, or both Bridge and Altar/Ghast if you want to 'nuke from orbit'.
I also fear the F2F event is what may happen this weekend, and why I'm absolutely BEGGING people to play Hogaak at the GP/SCG event. If its anything but overwhelming, we are stuck with this thing for at least a few months, and that would really suck.
Spirits
I think thats fair. Its not like Hogaak is some stupid pushed thing like several of the new Eldrazi, but a card that has real hoops to jump through to cast. Altar as a secondary win condition is fine, if that win condition is not hitting the table and rendering someone's deck to 0 with very few options to respond to it.
Removing both Bridge and Altar, would obliterate the deck, while leaving Hogaak and Altar would give us 3 distinct flavours (at least) of GY decks.
Dredge -> Creatures and Conflag
Phoenix -> Creatures and Burn/'Storming'
Hogaak -> Creatures and Mill
The problem is like someone's signature used to point out here, that for Combo to be viable (and Hogaak is Combo with the Altar) it must be faster than Aggro, the problem is...well Modern is a Turn 4 format, at least in theory, and being 'dead' to Mill before you play a 3rd land, is not acceptable.
My vote will remain Bridge. Lets see how the weekend goes. :]
Meanwhile, I'm playing some Zombies + Yawgmoth.
Spirits
But Hogaak is definitely the ban that will stop turn 2/3 Hogaaks, but allow Bridge Vine to move on slightly better than before. (Bridge Vine was fine before. I tried Gerry T's Pro Tour list and did Top 8, miss top 8 barely being 1 turn short, and 2-4 another of 3 PPTQs I played it before I stopped. Once it became a known commodity, the deck was just another Tier 1/Tier 2 deck. Hogaak pushes it past that. Altar is not playable outside of Hogaak existing.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)In the end, I would rather we have Hogaak/Altar, than Bridge/Altar.
Spirits
(Treasure Cruise/Dig the only examples I can think of)
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Probably true. When Stitcher's Supplier came out, Bridge Vine did well for a very short period of time. Much of that could have been player's uncertainty on the deck. I personally felt at the time that outside of Humans, there wasn't much else I cannot beat in Game 1. Games 2 and 3 were different, as extreme grave hate turned my deck into trying to win with a 2/1 and a 1/1 Menace.
So, you may certainly be right. I just don't think banning Bridge ONLY solves a turn 2/3 Hogaak and I don't think that's acceptable You can ask the Path to Exile crowd and they may believe so, but most others probably don't.
When Bloodbraid Elf was banned, I had told people for months that Deathrite Shaman should have been the ban. I had played against Bloodbraid Elf for years and years - an amazing card, but not really broken. I mostly heard 2 answers to this - indifference and "no, it should be Bloodbraid Elf." I think Wizards is reticent of such a mistake and would not like to do it again. Hogaak is not even selling Modern Horizons. There's tons of good cards and Hogaak went from $35 to $5 now. I would say that even Plague Engineer has more hype, going from $1 to $4 now.
On another note, the funny thing to me is that after Deathrite Shaman eventually got banned and then Bloodbraid Elf unbanned years later, most people I know started saying that it was the correct ban all along. Where were these people when Bloodbraid Elf originally got banned? I literally don't know.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I got to learn first hand how obnoxious a Yixlid Jailer can be. Turn 1 Giver of Runes, turn 2 Yixlid Jailer, turn 3 Rest in Peace. F my life. Sad part was that I had Lightning Axe in hand too and thought I'd bust up the turn 2 "Devoted Druid." Lmao.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)This is definitely a thing, I expect a lot of people assume the deck will be gone in such a short timespan it's not worth investing money and time into; the deck is pretty hard to pilot optimally.
If WotC ruins modern for 3 months on July 8th, I expect the Hogaak share to explode
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That is absolutely a Banhammer!
anyway, joking aside. I do understand that some people have spent money on their Hogaak decks.. so I don't want it to completely nuked. Only want the mill win con to be removed.. just the altar or just the bridge. No need to ban Hogaak itself.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread