I bring it up, because decks that FORCE you to interact or lose, are good for a format.
Like Infect?
Actually, yes. If only there was a deck like Infect that forced interaction, but wasn't constantly breaking the Turn 4 rule. Unfortunately for infect, without those Turn 2 and Turn 3 wins, the deck is too susceptible to interaction and has mostly been made irrelevant with the banning of Probe and the printing of Fatal Push.
There is one, actually. Its called thing in the ice. If you let them untap, you are almost toast. If you are a creature deck, you are surely toast!
Are you saying that UR Phoenix, and decks like it, are good, healthy, and necessary additions to the format?
Are you saying that UR Phoenix, and decks like it, are good, healthy, and necessary additions to the format?
I think the OP was just trying to insinuate phoenix may keep people honest at least because of thing in the ice. Obviously, it's doing insane right now and we may even discuss bans.
No need to be incredulous at this point, since most users are in the category that a ban may be necessary. There are just a few who think it's not necessary yet and are positing the format may correct itself given time, WAR and MH. I think we should just give the people who are in the no ban camp some credibility that given time and some good cards to be introduced into the format that it may correct itself.
No need to ask pointed questions on the subject, I'm hoping it gets better even if June is a long time away.
On the Tron vs Phoenix MU, I can definitely see the merits of Tron, I have a semi-budget Tron deck (Everything except the stupidly expensive PWs and I haven't bought my Walking Ballistae yet) and in our small Modern tournaments (small but out of 8-10 players you can count on at least 6 top-level full lists) I've done well against UR Phoenix, MD Relic of Progenitus can seriously hurt the deck, and Scour From Existence or All is Dust have saved me from an early flipped Thing. I've lost some games when Phoenix just does its thing on T2 but overall the matchup can be positive for Tron, UR Phoenix is light on threats so Karn is a real menace to it, and with clever sideboarding Tron can hit both of its plans, Dismember or Warping Wail can answer a Thing and Surgicals or Grafdigger's Cage or even Tormod's Crypt can hit the bird.
I don't think Phoenix needs anything banned TBH, the deck is good but beatable, it's far from the ridiculousness of Eldrazi decks, and when it does its thing, it's mercifully fast, unlike those awful KCI games...
Are you saying that UR Phoenix, and decks like it, are good, healthy, and necessary additions to the format?
I think the OP was just trying to insinuate phoenix may keep people honest at least because of thing in the ice. Obviously, it's doing insane right now and we may even discuss bans.
No need to be incredulous at this point, since most users are in the category that a ban may be necessary. There are just a few who think it's not necessary yet and are positing the format may correct itself given time, WAR and MH. I think we should just give the people who are in the no ban camp some credibility that given time and some good cards to be introduced into the format that it may correct itself.
No need to ask pointed questions on the subject, I'm hoping it gets better even if June is a long time away.
I was just curious because my point was to say that decks like Infect (and that which will not be named) were excellent for the meta because they rewarded traditional, regular, main deck interaction by being extremely effective against them, while still being individually powerful decks. You had the preposition to "interact or die" which is mostly gone today. Decks play as little interaction as they can possibly get away with in favor of powerful proactive plays. I do not feel UR Phoenix falls into that category because players are not rewarded for playing traditional, regular, main deck removal as cripplingly as they would have been against Infect or [redacted]. The point was about decks being healthy additions to the format in the sense of promoting or rewarding interaction. Phoenix sort of doesn't do either.
To put it simply, given the current circumstances, nothing should be banned from Phoenix. However given historical precedence, it absolutely could, and I would defend that ban if they specifically cited competitive/GP performances as the reason, even though I play the deck. With so many big changes coming up, it does not make sense to ban something, but it absolutely fits past criteria.
This is so painfully true I almost dont even want to get into it. If you played a UR deck that was not Storm, inside the last year, you ALREADY played a suboptimal 'I'm diverse Modern!' but not really good deck. Phoenix didnt change that. Phoenix just showed what a good UR deck actually looks like.
By current measures, Phoenix appears to be much more than merely a "good UR deck." Its shares are currently in the Pod/TC/DRS range, I.e. a range of legitimately broken decks, not simply good ones. Modern has not seen these shares between Eldrazi Winter and today, so there is clearly some anomaly in the deck's performance. That said, I do believe the share is (someehat) artificially inflated by the echo chamber of pro and online opinion, which drives a certain type of competitive player to pick up this certain kind of proactive/reactive, consistent, rewarding, and resilient deck. Add in a healthy Standard and the engaging Arena platform, and it's little wonder that many of the better players at big events just audible to a reliable deck like Phoenix.
BUT, artificial inflation factors aside, the Day 1 to Day 2 to Top 32 jump at the previous GP is an unambiguous indicator of a real performance edge, not just a "good" UR deck.
Its shares in a very small and limited sample. Remember in paper most people don't metagame for a new deck for quite a while. Now you will start to see more maindeck hate(magma spray anyone) for it.
In the end the deck has bad matchups and those will continue to grow in share as it actually 'stays' as the best deck for more than 2 months.
In the end the CORRECT answer isnt to ban a thing from all these linear decks.
Unban Twin. Twin will police things like Phoenix and Dredge to a level thats more reasonable for 'must board' decks. Twin is the hero this format needs. Itll immediately be the best deck in modern again, but all the other FAIR decks get better around it and rebalances the meta (Grixis/abzan/jund midrange and UW and UWR control get better)
People, who are saying that there are a lot of answers for phoenix decks - what are they? What the myth about good answers against that deck?
Bcs only good answers I see for now are creatures like Kalitas and Anafenza that fit in only in humans and BGx or Chalices that work good mostly in artifact prison decks.
Theese and rest of the gy hate cards are hurting decks that are playing them more than decks they're targeted against. Bcs a lot of decks at least slightly but using gy for some synergies so gy strategies hurt them a lot.
I don't know how you call with all that modern good and balanced without good answers in format for a lot of decks.
Btw, here also goes how Phoenix and Dredge decks are not warping format around themselves as Twin/Pod/Eldrazi and other decks did. I'm pretty sure that ban WILL happen bcs answers always come much later than new treats and in much-much less numbers for tonns of deck that were playable year ago.
The best ways to adapt to the Phoenix meta is to play things like:
Tron
Prison
GDS
Amulet (Verdict isn't 100% settling on who is favored)
Titan Shift
Ad Naus
And decks that largely ignore what Phoenix is trying to accomplish. I know I know, TRON! Yet, if the way to beat Phoenix is Tron/Big mana that allows other decks to come in and beat up those arch types. Players are figuring it out. My Own record against Phoenix is very good (SCG events, Both Classic and Regionals), I found my spaghetti monsters enjoy their match up
I do understand the frustration towards the current state of modern but we are seeing a reaction this weekend. It takes some time for players to figure the right ways to beat the many flavors of Phoenix. There wasn't a full consensus on how to SB against UR in our Tron thread until a few weeks ago. From there there's a lot of testing that goes in to making sure we aren't just kidding ourselves. With MH horizons on it's way, we need to be positive about the shake ups that set will initiate. If all that fails then another hammer will fall.
MonoR Phoenix deck is like burn - worst possible match up for tron. I also played UR version several times - it didn't feel that bad in first game and probably slightly unfavorable postside. Closer to 50-50.
Mono red version of Phoenix is very hard for tron, yet I have a positive win % on mtgo (means nothing, I just knew my deck better). Izzet has always felt fine, never lost to it on paper, but then again I play paper during bigger events. On mtgo the match up felt fine. The mono red version is a nightmare, in fact I think it's worse than burn.
The SB plans for Izzet versions vary, but consensus is it's a favorable match up. I'm not the only who thinks that way, we saw this on camera this entire weekend. Izzet can adapt, but the good news if, if Izzet aims to try and beat Tron other decks can improve their own match ups as well. Phoenix is a great deck but it's not unbeatable.
There are very poor Tron pilots, as much as the deck gets 0 respect you still have to know it's lines, Izzet vs Tron isn't a cake walk for Tron, but if the Tron pilot understands the match up SB games are much easier to handle.
What’s with Amulet Titan’s performance at SCG? The deck put 2 copies in the top 8 in Philadelphia, yet was completely absent in the top 32 of both GP Bilbao and Tampa.
What’s with Amulet Titan’s performance at SCG? The deck put 2 copies in the top 8 in Philadelphia, yet was completely absent in the top 32 of both GP Bilbao and Tampa.
There are a few "known" Amulet players that play in SCG tournaments, like Daryl Ayers for example. It's much easier to top 8 an SCG Open than a Grand Prix and I'm not sure many of those Amulet players actually played in the GPs.
Amulet is the kind of deck that really rewards playing for a long time. I think many of the SCG grinders have indeed done so, in easier competition. I am surprised that Edgar Magahaes didn't top 32 those GPs; maybe he didn't play?
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
What’s with Amulet Titan’s performance at SCG? The deck put 2 copies in the top 8 in Philadelphia, yet was completely absent in the top 32 of both GP Bilbao and Tampa.
There are a few "known" Amulet players that play in SCG tournaments, like Daryl Ayers for example. It's much tougher to top 8 an SCG Open than a Grand Prix and I'm not sure many of those Amulet players actually played in the GPs.
Amulet is the kind of deck that really rewards playing for a long time. I think many of the SCG grinders have indeed done so, in easier competition. I am surprised that Edgar Magahaes didn't top 32 those GPs; maybe he didn't play?
SCG Opens are tougher to top 8 than GPs? The narrative in this thread has been the opposite for years with people calling SCGs "glorified FNMs" (not that I agree with that mind you). I would like to know your perspective on that
What’s with Amulet Titan’s performance at SCG? The deck put 2 copies in the top 8 in Philadelphia, yet was completely absent in the top 32 of both GP Bilbao and Tampa.
There are a few "known" Amulet players that play in SCG tournaments, like Daryl Ayers for example. It's much tougher to top 8 an SCG Open than a Grand Prix and I'm not sure many of those Amulet players actually played in the GPs.
Amulet is the kind of deck that really rewards playing for a long time. I think many of the SCG grinders have indeed done so, in easier competition. I am surprised that Edgar Magahaes didn't top 32 those GPs; maybe he didn't play?
SCG Opens are tougher to top 8 than GPs? The narrative in this thread has been the opposite for years with people calling SCGs "glorified FNMs" (not that I agree with that mind you). I would like to know your perspective on that
I said it wrongly. I EDITED the above. Thanks.
It is easier to Top 8 SCG Opens. I've top 8ed 3 of something like 10 SCG Opens and been very close many other times, although this was with the Day 1 Swiss leading to the Day 2 morning Top 8s. I've played in at least 40 GPs and have not top 8ed one (yes, that's pretty embarrassing) of them.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Haha I had the same reaction, like wth !
In the meantime, there are some players in the SCG circuits you never want to face (or you actually do, because you want a card signed and get some experience vs the best).
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
It is easier to Top 8 SCG Opens. I've top 8ed 3 of something like 10 SCG Opens and been very close many other times, although this was with the Day 1 Swiss leading to the Day 2 morning Top 8s. I've played in at least 40 GPs and have not top 8ed one (yes, that's pretty embarrassing) of them.
I can´t see anything embarrasing. Let´s assume you have 1 bye at every GP and you have a constant win rate of 60% (which is a LOT and hard to maintain constantly at GPs) and you play 40 GPs, then just statistically you there is a chance of appox. 20% to never make Top 8 (calculated a 4% chance to make top 8). Even though you played like pro over the course of many many years and many GPs and did everything you possibly could. That´s just Magic.
Xerox decks remain the problem, despite players loving to play them. There is very little counter play in existence to them. It's no surprise Chalice, Tron, and Amulet decks are rising.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
Xerox decks remain the problem, despite players loving to play them. There is very little counter play in existence to them. It's no surprise Chalice, Tron, and Amulet decks are rising.
That channel fireball article is interesting and I'll finish it later. But I disagree with preordain being unfit for modern play.
I feel like it is the line that would ensure control decks can hit their land drops while also lowering overall land count, stopping them control decks missing their land drops so they just die.
You could say but it also allows them to dig for combo pieces but I feel like the gain for decks that beat combo/xerox would be better than for the xerox (faithless looting is probably more powerful than preordain in the current meta).
Many people have done numbers analysis as well as practical testing with Preordain and found that the upgrade to current cantrips is minimal to nothing. The idea in players' heads that it is somehow so much more inherently broken is a fiction perpetuated by how powerful cards like Ponder and Brainstorm are. Preordain is an incredibly tame card and it's sad how low the bar is for cantrips in Modern. Our blue cantrips are all pretty awful, which is why the best card draw spells people are trying to push are Faithless Looting and Ancient Stirrings.
Xerox decks remain the problem, despite players loving to play them. There is very little counter play in existence to them. It's no surprise Chalice, Tron, and Amulet decks are rising.
That channel fireball article is interesting and I'll finish it later. But I disagree with preordain being unfit for modern play.
I feel like it is the line that would ensure control decks can hit their land drops while also lowering overall land count, stopping them control decks missing their land drops so they just die.
You could say but it also allows them to dig for combo pieces but I feel like the gain for decks that beat combo/xerox would be better than for the xerox (faithless looting is probably more powerful than preordain in the current meta).
On the one hand, I agree that for the most part, non-rotating format metagames will gravitate towards cantrip-heavy Xerox decks. They provide more options and consistency, which generally makes for a stronger deck. This is doubly noticeable in high-level events with top players, who personally want to play the kind of high consistency, low variance, high selection decks enabled by cantrips. I fully expect the MC to be overrun with Phoenix due to this pro preference and the fact that IP is a clear Tier 1 deck, if not the clear best deck.
On the other hand, this gravitation doesn't fully explain IP's current dominance. GDS never came close to these numbers in the past. Indeed, peak 2017 GDS performance never really exceeded peak Tron or Humans performance in 2018, and only one of those decks (Tron) has any resemblance to a Xerox deck: Stirrings, Sphere, and Star provide a LOT of velocity and selection. Even there, however, it's clearly not true Driver-Deck Xerox. Other factors are driving IP's run aside from simple Xerox gravitation and success.
I fully believe part of that drive is an echo chamber effect that trumpets IP as a best deck, with many players seeing no reason to disagree and picking it up blindly. They aren't wrong that it's a best deck, but they also are probably overselling the degree that it's the best. Another driving factor hss got to be Arena and Standard, which have pulled many away from Modern. When they return to the format after spending hours/days in Arena land, it's easy to audible to a deck that has such proven success. Add in the deck's inherent power/resilience/consistency, and the Magic community's penchant for alarmism instead of adaptation, and you have a perfect storm of factors leading to a 20%+ deck. This makes IP a different metagame force than GDS, which did not have all these factors at play to the same extent.
Right now, mtgtop8.com identifies 54% of Modern decks to be Aggro. 23% are Control and 22% are Combo. I think most people can agree that Preordain will not help Aggro much, but help Control and Combo the most. I personally don't think the difference is all that much and if the worst we can fear is a Tier 2 deck that plays Preordain, Serum Visions, Opt, and Sleight of Hand, then I think that's fine. I don't think that Aggro would go down to 44%, while Control and Combo each gain 5% to 28% and 27%, but if it did, is that the worst thing?
Now I will admit that mtgtop8 has some odd classifications, like GB Rock and Grixis Shadow as Aggro (because the lack of classifying Midrange) and Tron as Control, but I think the point mostly stands. The original archetypes are Control, Aggro, Combo. I'm not sure where we put Midrange, but I certainly know that Control is hurting unless we want to count Tron as Control and Aggro is a bit overwhelming unless you want to sub divide Aggro into quick Aggro, Tempo, and Midrange.
*I will say that Dredge at 7% of Combo seems like a pretty loose definition as well, but if Combo players can accept that, I think Aggro players have to admit that the format is at least halfway an Aggro on Aggro format.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Many people have done numbers analysis as well as practical testing with Preordain and found that the upgrade to current cantrips is minimal to nothing. The idea in players' heads that it is somehow so much more inherently broken is a fiction perpetuated by how powerful cards like Ponder and Brainstorm are. Preordain is an incredibly tame card and it's sad how low the bar is for cantrips in Modern. Our blue cantrips are all pretty awful, which is why the best card draw spells people are trying to push are Faithless Looting and Ancient Stirrings.
and which cards are disgussed allways when bannings coming? Stirrings and looting, so why the hell we want more problem cards?
Ugh. That's a disgusting top 8. So, so many Grixis Shadows...
Yeah it's possible that Preordain by itself may not be super powerful, but Preordain AND Ancient Stirrings (Amulet) or Preordain AND Faithless Looting may be too much. This is true. Have you seen the meme on FB about combining Faithless Looting and Ancient Stirrings? Aren't you glad we can't do that yet? (that's one thing going for these cards)
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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Yes. We need decks (multiple since we must have our 'modern diversity') that can untap and win on the spot at turn 4 from nothing.
Not Turn 1 turn sideways, turn 2 turn more sideways, turn 3, you are now in bolt range after I turn sideways, turn 4 'top a bolt gg'
More combo, more tools to dismantle combo for Midrange and Control.
Balanced Meta.
Spirits
Are you saying that UR Phoenix, and decks like it, are good, healthy, and necessary additions to the format?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I think the OP was just trying to insinuate phoenix may keep people honest at least because of thing in the ice. Obviously, it's doing insane right now and we may even discuss bans.
No need to be incredulous at this point, since most users are in the category that a ban may be necessary. There are just a few who think it's not necessary yet and are positing the format may correct itself given time, WAR and MH. I think we should just give the people who are in the no ban camp some credibility that given time and some good cards to be introduced into the format that it may correct itself.
No need to ask pointed questions on the subject, I'm hoping it gets better even if June is a long time away.
I don't think Phoenix needs anything banned TBH, the deck is good but beatable, it's far from the ridiculousness of Eldrazi decks, and when it does its thing, it's mercifully fast, unlike those awful KCI games...
I was just curious because my point was to say that decks like Infect (and that which will not be named) were excellent for the meta because they rewarded traditional, regular, main deck interaction by being extremely effective against them, while still being individually powerful decks. You had the preposition to "interact or die" which is mostly gone today. Decks play as little interaction as they can possibly get away with in favor of powerful proactive plays. I do not feel UR Phoenix falls into that category because players are not rewarded for playing traditional, regular, main deck removal as cripplingly as they would have been against Infect or [redacted]. The point was about decks being healthy additions to the format in the sense of promoting or rewarding interaction. Phoenix sort of doesn't do either.
To put it simply, given the current circumstances, nothing should be banned from Phoenix. However given historical precedence, it absolutely could, and I would defend that ban if they specifically cited competitive/GP performances as the reason, even though I play the deck. With so many big changes coming up, it does not make sense to ban something, but it absolutely fits past criteria.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Its shares in a very small and limited sample. Remember in paper most people don't metagame for a new deck for quite a while. Now you will start to see more maindeck hate(magma spray anyone) for it.
In the end the deck has bad matchups and those will continue to grow in share as it actually 'stays' as the best deck for more than 2 months.
In the end the CORRECT answer isnt to ban a thing from all these linear decks.
Unban Twin. Twin will police things like Phoenix and Dredge to a level thats more reasonable for 'must board' decks. Twin is the hero this format needs. Itll immediately be the best deck in modern again, but all the other FAIR decks get better around it and rebalances the meta (Grixis/abzan/jund midrange and UW and UWR control get better)
Bcs only good answers I see for now are creatures like Kalitas and Anafenza that fit in only in humans and BGx or Chalices that work good mostly in artifact prison decks.
Theese and rest of the gy hate cards are hurting decks that are playing them more than decks they're targeted against. Bcs a lot of decks at least slightly but using gy for some synergies so gy strategies hurt them a lot.
I don't know how you call with all that modern good and balanced without good answers in format for a lot of decks.
Btw, here also goes how Phoenix and Dredge decks are not warping format around themselves as Twin/Pod/Eldrazi and other decks did. I'm pretty sure that ban WILL happen bcs answers always come much later than new treats and in much-much less numbers for tonns of deck that were playable year ago.
MonoR Phoenix deck is like burn - worst possible match up for tron. I also played UR version several times - it didn't feel that bad in first game and probably slightly unfavorable postside. Closer to 50-50.
The SB plans for Izzet versions vary, but consensus is it's a favorable match up. I'm not the only who thinks that way, we saw this on camera this entire weekend. Izzet can adapt, but the good news if, if Izzet aims to try and beat Tron other decks can improve their own match ups as well. Phoenix is a great deck but it's not unbeatable.
There are very poor Tron pilots, as much as the deck gets 0 respect you still have to know it's lines, Izzet vs Tron isn't a cake walk for Tron, but if the Tron pilot understands the match up SB games are much easier to handle.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
There are a few "known" Amulet players that play in SCG tournaments, like Daryl Ayers for example. It's much easier to top 8 an SCG Open than a Grand Prix and I'm not sure many of those Amulet players actually played in the GPs.
Amulet is the kind of deck that really rewards playing for a long time. I think many of the SCG grinders have indeed done so, in easier competition. I am surprised that Edgar Magahaes didn't top 32 those GPs; maybe he didn't play?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I´m confused, why do you think that?
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I said it wrongly. I EDITED the above. Thanks.
It is easier to Top 8 SCG Opens. I've top 8ed 3 of something like 10 SCG Opens and been very close many other times, although this was with the Day 1 Swiss leading to the Day 2 morning Top 8s. I've played in at least 40 GPs and have not top 8ed one (yes, that's pretty embarrassing) of them.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)In the meantime, there are some players in the SCG circuits you never want to face (or you actually do, because you want a card signed and get some experience vs the best).
I can´t see anything embarrasing. Let´s assume you have 1 bye at every GP and you have a constant win rate of 60% (which is a LOT and hard to maintain constantly at GPs) and you play 40 GPs, then just statistically you there is a chance of appox. 20% to never make Top 8 (calculated a 4% chance to make top 8). Even though you played like pro over the course of many many years and many GPs and did everything you possibly could. That´s just Magic.
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/decks-like-deaths-shadow-will-always-become-the-best-deck/
http://www.themanadrain.com/topic/1360/turbo-xerox-and-monastery-mentor
That channel fireball article is interesting and I'll finish it later. But I disagree with preordain being unfit for modern play.
I feel like it is the line that would ensure control decks can hit their land drops while also lowering overall land count, stopping them control decks missing their land drops so they just die.
You could say but it also allows them to dig for combo pieces but I feel like the gain for decks that beat combo/xerox would be better than for the xerox (faithless looting is probably more powerful than preordain in the current meta).
Legacy - LED Dredge, ANT & WDnT
Examples? At least engage in a conversation. 'No' when something isn't demonstrably wrong doesn't progress understanding.
And WotC says no is temporary for any banned list card. Proof JtMS, BBE, Bitterblossom, GGT
Legacy - LED Dredge, ANT & WDnT
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
On the one hand, I agree that for the most part, non-rotating format metagames will gravitate towards cantrip-heavy Xerox decks. They provide more options and consistency, which generally makes for a stronger deck. This is doubly noticeable in high-level events with top players, who personally want to play the kind of high consistency, low variance, high selection decks enabled by cantrips. I fully expect the MC to be overrun with Phoenix due to this pro preference and the fact that IP is a clear Tier 1 deck, if not the clear best deck.
On the other hand, this gravitation doesn't fully explain IP's current dominance. GDS never came close to these numbers in the past. Indeed, peak 2017 GDS performance never really exceeded peak Tron or Humans performance in 2018, and only one of those decks (Tron) has any resemblance to a Xerox deck: Stirrings, Sphere, and Star provide a LOT of velocity and selection. Even there, however, it's clearly not true Driver-Deck Xerox. Other factors are driving IP's run aside from simple Xerox gravitation and success.
I fully believe part of that drive is an echo chamber effect that trumpets IP as a best deck, with many players seeing no reason to disagree and picking it up blindly. They aren't wrong that it's a best deck, but they also are probably overselling the degree that it's the best. Another driving factor hss got to be Arena and Standard, which have pulled many away from Modern. When they return to the format after spending hours/days in Arena land, it's easy to audible to a deck that has such proven success. Add in the deck's inherent power/resilience/consistency, and the Magic community's penchant for alarmism instead of adaptation, and you have a perfect storm of factors leading to a 20%+ deck. This makes IP a different metagame force than GDS, which did not have all these factors at play to the same extent.
Now I will admit that mtgtop8 has some odd classifications, like GB Rock and Grixis Shadow as Aggro (because the lack of classifying Midrange) and Tron as Control, but I think the point mostly stands. The original archetypes are Control, Aggro, Combo. I'm not sure where we put Midrange, but I certainly know that Control is hurting unless we want to count Tron as Control and Aggro is a bit overwhelming unless you want to sub divide Aggro into quick Aggro, Tempo, and Midrange.
*I will say that Dredge at 7% of Combo seems like a pretty loose definition as well, but if Combo players can accept that, I think Aggro players have to admit that the format is at least halfway an Aggro on Aggro format.
https://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yeah it's possible that Preordain by itself may not be super powerful, but Preordain AND Ancient Stirrings (Amulet) or Preordain AND Faithless Looting may be too much. This is true. Have you seen the meme on FB about combining Faithless Looting and Ancient Stirrings? Aren't you glad we can't do that yet? (that's one thing going for these cards)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)