Well here is the thing you either print better card draw across the board (with new cards or banlist freedom) or you tap down on the best card draw around and restrict it to what Blue cantrips are allowed now. Either one works for me.
@idSurge
Weren't you the one kicking around that mega 6 card ban? Jokingly or not, it did seem like you had a fairly solid position on why those cards, so I think you know that answer yourself without having to pose to others if Stirrings is "next" or not.
I have been saying Looting needs to go for Months. Turns out having to discard is not a negative its a positive. Although I say the main issue is unless they exile your graveyard you get to enjoy 8 of them.
I believe I'm counting 19 Faithless Looting decks as well. I really hope modern doesn't swing further and further towards this card like it has been of recent
We get GP Toronto results and the MCQ results that show an extremely diverse and healthy Modern and there's little talk in this thread about that health. Then we get an MTGO event with different, more negative results and it's back to concern about Looting. There is no current justification for these concerns. Just as Stirrings produces multiple diverse and distinct decks, so too does Looting, and we already know that this is precisely why Stirrings is not in the ban crosshairs. See the 01/21/2019 banlist update:
" In the current state of the metagame, the build-around nature of Ancient Stirrings supports decks that look very different from a simple collection of the strongest rate cards, and that otherwise may not exist. "
Looting has distinct deckbuilding requirements, which is why we don't see it in every red deck or every deck that could splash red. We see it in decks which are capable of leveraging the build-around nature of Looting, and it produces a varied format (as a whole; not just in that awful MTGO event). As long as that remains the case, and as long as we see events like GP Toronto that look awesome, cards like Looting, Stirrings, Opal, and the other usual banlist speculation candidates should be off the table. If future 2019 results change this, we can revisit it. Right now, it's at best unjustified speculation and at worst hyperbolic ban mania.
@idSurge
Weren't you the one kicking around that mega 6 card ban? Jokingly or not, it did seem like you had a fairly solid position on why those cards, so I think you know that answer yourself without having to pose to others if Stirrings is "next" or not.
Yeah I did, because if you suggest to take off one 'branch' you simply unbalance the other side of the tree.
I think it's good that it won't see widespread play like it used to, because it would be off the radar and people would be less prepared for it. It's no longer the "best deck", it's just a "normal deck" in modern now - which makes it safe from bans.
Honestly, it is quite sad that the first thought of many about a deck is, will it get banned or not. Shows how hard wizard drilled many players on that aspect with their policies in the last years.
Greetings,
Kathal
Ah, sorry about that. Somehow these past 3 years in modern.. guess I had the weird perception that it is the norm for cards from the best decks to be banned. Just looking at the recent victim of the banhammer, KCI is flat as a pancake from being hammered.
____________________
On some other things. Is there already an official thread for the 4 color whir decks?
The only one I could find is the "grindfather" deck, which is only two colors.
I have been saying Looting needs to go for Months. Turns out having to discard is not a negative its a positive. Although I say the main issue is unless they exile your graveyard you get to enjoy 8 of them.
I believe I'm counting 19 Faithless Looting decks as well. I really hope modern doesn't swing further and further towards this card like it has been of recent
We get GP Toronto results and the MCQ results that show an extremely diverse and healthy Modern and there's little talk in this thread about that health. [...]
Happy people are too busy playing and enjoying the format...
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Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
I have been saying Looting needs to go for Months. Turns out having to discard is not a negative its a positive. Although I say the main issue is unless they exile your graveyard you get to enjoy 8 of them.
I believe I'm counting 19 Faithless Looting decks as well. I really hope modern doesn't swing further and further towards this card like it has been of recent
We get GP Toronto results and the MCQ results that show an extremely diverse and healthy Modern and there's little talk in this thread about that health. [...]
Happy people are too busy playing and enjoying the format...
Well, not necessarily. Considering that it is more or less the same 3-4 users bashing the format first chance they get, the absence of discussion doesn't seem to be related to people being happy with the format, just people waiting the first results that will reinforce their own narrative and go ham with it, while ignoring previous results that don't align with the argument they want to make.
Bear in mind while you keep making disparaging remarks up there on your high horse that those users are the ones who still care enough about the Modern format to make their opinions known. There are many others like me who simply don't care to post anymore.
Modern hasn't been enjoyable to me since the latter part of 2018, so I moved on. That's all. I have the luxury of doing that, others might not, or have a stronger attachment to Modern.
I still have my Modern decks, good for jamming casual games within my playgroup. Competition? No thanks. Consuming Modern content? Rarely if any.
Great that there are many out there who enjoy Modern for what it is. Keep doing what you guys are doing.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
It just depends on what you want out of the format. Some people spent thousands of dollars investing in a format that no longer exists and is more or less depressingly unrecognizable. And it's entirely understandable that those players are less than thrilled with the direction the format has been trending to over the years.
It is entirely possible to have absolutely magnificent, decision-heavy, intensive, back-and-forth games in Modern. But more and more, those seem to be the exception and not the norm. I know I personally have had much more fun once I stopped caring about winning or playing in high level competitive events. The top decks at any given time are almost always miserable, linear nonsense, fighting on a weird angle that requires narrow hate. But if your FNM rejects that as a whole, and simply "plays what they own and plays what they like", you get to see a larger variety of archetypes and strategies, and can have wonderful times tweaking and tuning for your local meta.
The format isn't "good" or "bad" because the individual experiences are so heavily dependant on what you play, where you play, and why you play. But just because you feel one way about a format, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people who feel the opposite. At any given time, there are many things, both good and bad, that at least make Modern the "best" constructed format available for doing powerful things, while not restricted by the Reserved List.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
This line from that article does not inspire confidence:
"We’ve just reached an agreement with Wizards of the Coast and we’ll be broadcasting coverage of select Grand Prix in 2019"
This very loudly says they are not covering all GPs. This doesn't even say they will be covering all constructed GPs.
This line from that article does not inspire confidence:
"We’ve just reached an agreement with Wizards of the Coast and we’ll be broadcasting coverage of select Grand Prix in 2019"
This very loudly says they are not covering all GPs. This doesn't even say they will be covering all constructed GPs.
No, I dont expect they will. Someone said its $20K+ to do coverage. CFB even mentions being subsidized by Wizards on this, and we know they run GP's at a loss already!
So...yeah. I'll take what I can get. Just dont do coverage for limited. KTHXBYE.
The only time i'll ever watch limited is if they do it in the "Follow Reid Duke around" coverage format. The particular GP was the best for me in terms of viewing experience and not because of the format on show.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Bear in mind while you keep making disparaging remarks up there on your high horse that those users are the ones who still care enough about the Modern format to make their opinions known. There are many others like me who simply don't care to post anymore.
Modern hasn't been enjoyable to me since the latter part of 2018, so I moved on. That's all. I have the luxury of doing that, others might not, or have a stronger attachment to Modern.
I still have my Modern decks, good for jamming casual games within my playgroup. Competition? No thanks. Consuming Modern content? Rarely if any.
Great that there are many out there who enjoy Modern for what it is. Keep doing what you guys are doing.
I can definitely agree with this sentiment. The-deck-that-shall-not-be-named is the only deck I've ever played where I felt like that was MY deck and I never wanted to play anything else. Since I've returned to magic in late 2017, I've moved between a few decks and never really felt like I truly loved any deck in the meta. My IRL friends haven't played much magic in years and were never competitive, so to scratch my itch I just read through these forums all day. While I don't hate Modern top to bottom, I do dislike the hyper-aggro/ships-passing nature that we find so often. That, coupled with not having a deck that I truly love top-to-bottom and want to specialize with, causes me to sometimes just throw my hands up and wonder why I'm wasting my time. At this point I'm too deep to sell off my cards/switch to standard, so I do feel a little stuck. Which sucks when I'm enjoying modern as a 7/10 when it used to be an 11/10 for me when modern first became a format.
Not gonna get super deep into it, but I enjoy modern right now, mostly because I'm fine with linear decks. Big tournaments have ever been a gamble, and I actually prefer playing a linear strategy when I attend one regardless. For those who don't enjoy linear strategy, it's not like Death's Shadow, Rock, or UW are non-viable.
However, I do concede that it does seem like linear strategy tends to win in modern more than anything else. It's inarguable that the other eternal format, Legacy, is more interactive, given the dominance that blue enjoys there. Some people like that more, and that's fine.
Bear in mind while you keep making disparaging remarks up there on your high horse that those users are the ones who still care enough about the Modern format to make their opinions known. There are many others like me who simply don't care to post anymore.
On the flipside, most users who have positive things to say about modern aren't going to bother posting in these discussions when it's not around B/R list time. People come to this thread to argue, not to hold hands and sing. Again, not saying their gripes are without merit, just that sometimes the atmosphere in this thread does get kinda negative.
On the flipside, most users who have positive things to say about modern aren't going to bother posting in these discussions when it's not around B/R list time. People come to this thread to argue, not to hold hands and sing. Again, not saying their gripes are without merit, just that sometimes the atmosphere in this thread does get kinda negative.
Enjoying modern, and currently building a Mardu Pyromancer deck. Also fine with linear decks, and the faithless looting decks that seem to dominate modern right now. And looking at the tourney report on the previous page, BG midrange and Eldrazi tron seem to be trying to come back.. so that's a good thing too, the more decks around the merrier.
This line from that article does not inspire confidence:
"We’ve just reached an agreement with Wizards of the Coast and we’ll be broadcasting coverage of select Grand Prix in 2019"
This very loudly says they are not covering all GPs. This doesn't even say they will be covering all constructed GPs.
I know it's only been a month or two since they cut coverage but I'd take any kind of coverage I could get at this point, even if it's only a few select GPs. I guess we can only wait and see how much events they will cover
This line from that article does not inspire confidence:
"We’ve just reached an agreement with Wizards of the Coast and we’ll be broadcasting coverage of select Grand Prix in 2019"
This very loudly says they are not covering all GPs. This doesn't even say they will be covering all constructed GPs.
That could mean a bunch of different things, including combinations of those things. It could mean no limited. It could mean only what CFB wants to do. It could mean that WotC wants to do their own coverage on some. Or a mix of what you think and any/all of those. Or anything else.
While there's a lot of linear decks in Modern at the moment, I feel like the format is moving back towards being somewhat more interactive.
My main deck, while it definitely has it's busted draws, is one of the most intellectually enjoyable decks I've ever played (Amulet Titan), and most match-ups are fun puzzles.
And, well. People are brewing with the new cards - the Sultai Wilderness Reclamation deck is a beautiful pile that is incredibly interactive and skill-testing and while it might not have that long of a shelf-life, the fact that we've got a format where that kind of deck is actually managing to put up some results is encouraging for me.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Can I get by without Surgical Extraction in like every sideboard of every deck I want to make? I'm looking at UW control, Blue Moon or Tron for MTGO and about half of the decks cost is the 2-3 copies of surgical. I remember when all the pros didn't even like this card... I quit for over a year and kind of like how things are looking right now, but this auto including surgicals in every deck and how expensive it is now is the one thing that really sticks out to me.
Can I get by without Surgical Extraction in like every sideboard of every deck I want to make? I'm looking at UW control, Blue Moon or Tron for MTGO and about half of the decks cost is the 2-3 copies of surgical. I remember when all the pros didn't even like this card... I quit for over a year and kind of like how things are looking right now, but this auto including surgicals in every deck and how expensive it is now is the one thing that really sticks out to me.
It obviously doesn't work the same, but I ran ravenous trap in paper for awhile until I picked up surgicals. Those or extirpate may help you out, otherwise, yea, surgical is pretty good right now.
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Weren't you the one kicking around that mega 6 card ban? Jokingly or not, it did seem like you had a fairly solid position on why those cards, so I think you know that answer yourself without having to pose to others if Stirrings is "next" or not.
"Reveal a Dragon"
We get GP Toronto results and the MCQ results that show an extremely diverse and healthy Modern and there's little talk in this thread about that health. Then we get an MTGO event with different, more negative results and it's back to concern about Looting. There is no current justification for these concerns. Just as Stirrings produces multiple diverse and distinct decks, so too does Looting, and we already know that this is precisely why Stirrings is not in the ban crosshairs. See the 01/21/2019 banlist update:
" In the current state of the metagame, the build-around nature of Ancient Stirrings supports decks that look very different from a simple collection of the strongest rate cards, and that otherwise may not exist. "
Looting has distinct deckbuilding requirements, which is why we don't see it in every red deck or every deck that could splash red. We see it in decks which are capable of leveraging the build-around nature of Looting, and it produces a varied format (as a whole; not just in that awful MTGO event). As long as that remains the case, and as long as we see events like GP Toronto that look awesome, cards like Looting, Stirrings, Opal, and the other usual banlist speculation candidates should be off the table. If future 2019 results change this, we can revisit it. Right now, it's at best unjustified speculation and at worst hyperbolic ban mania.
Yeah I did, because if you suggest to take off one 'branch' you simply unbalance the other side of the tree.
Spirits
Ah, sorry about that. Somehow these past 3 years in modern.. guess I had the weird perception that it is the norm for cards from the best decks to be banned. Just looking at the recent victim of the banhammer, KCI is flat as a pancake from being hammered.
____________________
On some other things. Is there already an official thread for the 4 color whir decks?
The only one I could find is the "grindfather" deck, which is only two colors.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Happy people are too busy playing and enjoying the format...
Modern:
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Modern hasn't been enjoyable to me since the latter part of 2018, so I moved on. That's all. I have the luxury of doing that, others might not, or have a stronger attachment to Modern.
I still have my Modern decks, good for jamming casual games within my playgroup. Competition? No thanks. Consuming Modern content? Rarely if any.
Great that there are many out there who enjoy Modern for what it is. Keep doing what you guys are doing.
It is entirely possible to have absolutely magnificent, decision-heavy, intensive, back-and-forth games in Modern. But more and more, those seem to be the exception and not the norm. I know I personally have had much more fun once I stopped caring about winning or playing in high level competitive events. The top decks at any given time are almost always miserable, linear nonsense, fighting on a weird angle that requires narrow hate. But if your FNM rejects that as a whole, and simply "plays what they own and plays what they like", you get to see a larger variety of archetypes and strategies, and can have wonderful times tweaking and tuning for your local meta.
The format isn't "good" or "bad" because the individual experiences are so heavily dependant on what you play, where you play, and why you play. But just because you feel one way about a format, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people who feel the opposite. At any given time, there are many things, both good and bad, that at least make Modern the "best" constructed format available for doing powerful things, while not restricted by the Reserved List.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/an-update-on-magicfest-video-coverage/
Good step for me. Pulling coverage was one of the major reasons for me to just cut back from the format all together.
Spirits
"We’ve just reached an agreement with Wizards of the Coast and we’ll be broadcasting coverage of select Grand Prix in 2019"
This very loudly says they are not covering all GPs. This doesn't even say they will be covering all constructed GPs.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
No, I dont expect they will. Someone said its $20K+ to do coverage. CFB even mentions being subsidized by Wizards on this, and we know they run GP's at a loss already!
So...yeah. I'll take what I can get. Just dont do coverage for limited. KTHXBYE.
Spirits
I can definitely agree with this sentiment. The-deck-that-shall-not-be-named is the only deck I've ever played where I felt like that was MY deck and I never wanted to play anything else. Since I've returned to magic in late 2017, I've moved between a few decks and never really felt like I truly loved any deck in the meta. My IRL friends haven't played much magic in years and were never competitive, so to scratch my itch I just read through these forums all day. While I don't hate Modern top to bottom, I do dislike the hyper-aggro/ships-passing nature that we find so often. That, coupled with not having a deck that I truly love top-to-bottom and want to specialize with, causes me to sometimes just throw my hands up and wonder why I'm wasting my time. At this point I'm too deep to sell off my cards/switch to standard, so I do feel a little stuck. Which sucks when I'm enjoying modern as a 7/10 when it used to be an 11/10 for me when modern first became a format.
However, I do concede that it does seem like linear strategy tends to win in modern more than anything else. It's inarguable that the other eternal format, Legacy, is more interactive, given the dominance that blue enjoys there. Some people like that more, and that's fine.
On the flipside, most users who have positive things to say about modern aren't going to bother posting in these discussions when it's not around B/R list time. People come to this thread to argue, not to hold hands and sing. Again, not saying their gripes are without merit, just that sometimes the atmosphere in this thread does get kinda negative.
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
Enjoying modern, and currently building a Mardu Pyromancer deck. Also fine with linear decks, and the faithless looting decks that seem to dominate modern right now. And looking at the tourney report on the previous page, BG midrange and Eldrazi tron seem to be trying to come back.. so that's a good thing too, the more decks around the merrier.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
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StaffI know it's only been a month or two since they cut coverage but I'd take any kind of coverage I could get at this point, even if it's only a few select GPs. I guess we can only wait and see how much events they will cover
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
My main deck, while it definitely has it's busted draws, is one of the most intellectually enjoyable decks I've ever played (Amulet Titan), and most match-ups are fun puzzles.
And, well. People are brewing with the new cards - the Sultai Wilderness Reclamation deck is a beautiful pile that is incredibly interactive and skill-testing and while it might not have that long of a shelf-life, the fact that we've got a format where that kind of deck is actually managing to put up some results is encouraging for me.
As far as I know, there is no intention of making Arena modern.
I've seen multiple claims from WotC that there will be a Standard + format, which is "Arena Modern" as Autumn is referencing.
It obviously doesn't work the same, but I ran ravenous trap in paper for awhile until I picked up surgicals. Those or extirpate may help you out, otherwise, yea, surgical is pretty good right now.