I don't want Phoenix to go anywhere. I would like to see Hollow One go away, buy that's just because I hate it, not because it's justified. The only card U would seriously consider is Burning Inquiry. I know Looting is technically a lot better, but the number of times I would have been fine against their creatures and then that blasted card took my last Burn spell to end it, or my answer, or basically just whatever else and left me with lands or other useless stuff is just ridiculous. I don't care if they loot stuff, but it shouldn't be a coin toss for the deck NOT built to loot getting burned to the ground
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
The cleanest one is of course Feldon's Cane. All others cost too much and most have a huge drawback or requirement before being cast. Quest for ancient secrets would be nice if it required fewer counters. If only it could target any player, that would be it. Given that we have multiple artifact in the same mana cost range that *exile* the graveyard, I don't think it's unthinkable to see such a design. It's almost surprising that the design doesn't exists already.
It's certainly a good deck but it can be shut down by quite a few cards, it also relies on a few creatures that are easy to kill by most removal in Modern and graveyard hate shuts it down hard. I ran into it a couple of weeks ago, a complete UR Phoenix deck vs my budget Gb Tron (I don't have the walkers and for the moment I'm running countery Kozilek instead of Ulamog, the rest of the deck is all there) and won 2-1, MD graveyard hate really helps against it, and Ravenous Trap is really useful both against Phoenix and Storm, Phoenix is good but it's nowhere as oppresive as Eldrazi, or as miserable to play against as KCI, even if Phoenix can have some absurd games where they go off and you just watch, it's mercifully short at least.
Not that I believe that the deck should be banned at all, I just want to say that Ross Meriam, one of the founders of the strategy, has claimed (and I believe him), that Phoenix decks don't shut as hard as we think with GY hate. Yes it is an inconvenience to the deck, but definitely not an auto-win, or something they must deal with. They have several lines to go around it.
And he's right, there are games in which GY hate doesn't inconvenience the deck too much, but games in which the deck chugs out a bunch of cantrips and Phoenixes to the yard can be turned around by GY hate, in my (limited)experience Ravenous Trap in particular shines vs Phoenix and Storm (the reason I got them in the first place) since they can't see it and play around it so easily.
I think it goes without saying that expecting your hate cards to win the game while you're durdling around isn't a sound plan, you need to apply some pressure if you don't want them assembling another full yard for Phoenixes or Drakes to come out of nowhere and still beat you, like in the first post-board game with him going first and slamming 2 Phoenixes on turn 3 then doing it again after I went T4 Tron, play+pop Oblivion Stone. I did win the 3rd one thanks to aBane of Bala Ged dropped right after I Ravenous Traped his GY away.
if the new upcoming modern product does include new/non-legal cards i think containment priest is an easy auto-include. certainly isnt a card with format warping power, even as a human.
i guess another piece of GY hate that shuffles them in would be welcomed, but really id rather see some kind of modal card/effect than anything specific. im assuming you are asking for shuffling because its the only way to turn off crackling drake? or is it just something you want 'just because'?
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
When is the next banned and restricted announcement seems like it be good to take stuff off the banlist to help goose sales. Good time to free a certain Kor and reprint some Weapons. Heck if they put fetch lands in they could guarantee sales.
It's been "a good time to free a certain Kor" for at least the last three years. Her continued placement on the banned list has nothing to do with her power.
It's been "a good time to free a certain Kor" for at least the last three years. Her continued placement on the banned list has nothing to do with her power.
maybe true, but a new product means a good chance to have an unbanning coinciding with a reprint.
the timing is a bit strained though. next b&r is mar 11, and march has 1 GP before that and 3 after; followed by another on april 12.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
The cleanest one is of course Feldon's Cane. All others cost too much and most have a huge drawback or requirement before being cast. Quest for ancient secrets would be nice if it required fewer counters. If only it could target any player, that would be it. Given that we have multiple artifact in the same mana cost range that *exile* the graveyard, I don't think it's unthinkable to see such a design. It's almost surprising that the design doesn't exists already.
Containment Priest is a card that absolutely should be in Modern. It's an excellent answer for fair white-based midrange and/or control decks to all the graveyard shenanigans going on in the format. They keep printing so many threats that recur from the graveyard without giving us nice answers to that strategy, and Containment Priest would be a nice step in the right direction.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Containment Priest is a card that absolutely should be in Modern. It's an excellent answer for fair white-based midrange and/or control decks to all the graveyard shenanigans going on in the format. They keep printing so many threats that recur from the graveyard without giving us nice answers to that strategy, and Containment Priest would be a nice step in the right direction.
yeah i havent seen/read or can think of any reason that containment priest SHOULDN'T be on the short list of cards if wizards does indeed decide to transplant cards from non-legal sets into modern. i mean even for cards like counterspell or baleful strix there is a crowd of indeterminate size that thinks they would have some negative impact; even if their opinions dont make sense to me at all i can acknowledge that they exist and have a differing view.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
This new modern product will be a modern challenger deck with sfm and some equipments in it and they’re announcing its unbanned. It only makes perfect sense to do an unban with a reprint just as they did with jace.
The cleanest one is of course Feldon's Cane. All others cost too much and most have a huge drawback or requirement before being cast. Quest for ancient secrets would be nice if it required fewer counters. If only it could target any player, that would be it. Given that we have multiple artifact in the same mana cost range that *exile* the graveyard, I don't think it's unthinkable to see such a design. It's almost surprising that the design doesn't exists already.
You seem to have missed Clear the Mind? I mean, it's not a good card, but you seem to have others that aren't really playable there as well.
This new modern product will be a modern challenger deck with sfm and some equipments in it and they’re announcing its unbanned. It only makes perfect sense to do an unban with a reprint just as they did with jace.
a reprinting with an unbanning is plausible. challenger decks though? it just doesnt align with what maro said. i know the guy can be a clown and can get excited to excess over anything magic related; but consider:
-idea birthed during the first 'hackathon' which had to happen in 2017 or earlier
-innovative
what would functionally be a rehashing of modern event decks don't fit either of those. the turnaround on the first standard challenger decks was less than a year (we know because they were based off pro-tour decks). up until a few months ago we know that masters sets werent slated to end indefinitely; which means they would have been developing this product/idea along side them - which served the role of a reprint outlet. SFM also would have been an easy inclusion into UMA if they were planning an unban that far out, even if it wasnt on theme, since we know they did last minute changes to boost the value of the set. which would have set them up perfectly to do a january unban.
that isnt to say that sfm wont get jammed into this new product, but a challenger deck has to be representative of some competitive deck or archetype from somewhere.
given that and it supposedly innovative in some way i cant see challenger decks fitting. some specialty booster set akin to battlebond or conspiracy seems way more likely imo. just conjecture though, and ill admit that wizards has done dumber things so we will see.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
My guess is a supplemental set that's Modern legal, because we know there are cards they want to inject into Modern but don't want in Standard, like Counterspell. There's also a bunch of sweet cards from past supplemental sets that would be fun to have in Modern, even if they wouldn't be all that great, like Kaya, Ghost Assassin or Dak Fayden.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I think they put the "set for printing new cards bypassing standard" was emphatically put to bed by Gavin Verhey just a week or two ago in an interview with The Prof.
Right?
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I think they put the "set for printing new cards bypassing standard" was emphatically put to bed by Gavin Verhey just a week or two ago in an interview with The Prof.
Right?
havent watched the vid personally, but from what was said in the 'considering modern only boosters' thread it sounds like he denied the possibility or at least implied.
its certainly a conundrum, because it is hard to envision what the new modern 'thing' is and its easy to default to something bypassing standard because a re-branding of modern masters or precons dont make much sense. they have already been tried in one form, and it would hardly be innovative or new.
probably best to keep low expectations
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
If the upcoming Modern-focused product isn't a rebranded masters product, preconstructed deck, or a set that introduces new cards outside of standard, that still leaves a few guesses.
If we stay in the category of a booster-based product, it could be a supplementary set that happens to have a large number of Modern reprints, with the new stuff being legacy/vintage/EDH/casual/etc. as usual.
Outside of boosters, we could also get a product similar to Signature Spellbook or Commander's Arsenal (in terms of price, probably), with fixed non-foil cards packaged with a random foil. It would cut the logistical fat (and chaff) away from precons while still providing meaningful reprints. Moving away from boosters and decks on a large scale might be too big a leap for a company that has only dabbled in such a thing over the years, though.
My guess is a supplemental set that's Modern legal, because we know there are cards they want to inject into Modern but don't want in Standard, like Counterspell. [...].
Are there any sources for this? Are WotC actually looking for ways to bypass standard because they would like to make certain cards Modern legal?
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Modern: Death&Taxes / U Tron / G Tron / Goblins
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
My guess is a supplemental set that's Modern legal, because we know there are cards they want to inject into Modern but don't want in Standard, like Counterspell. [...].
Are there any sources for this? Are WotC actually looking for ways to bypass standard because they would like to make certain cards Modern legal?
i think its just an assumption, but a plausible one. cant say ive ever seen anything on wizards outright saying they wish they could get X card into modern around standard (at least nothing i can remember anyways).
they did a survey a while back (august last year) asking people what they thought of the idea of a modern-only booster type product for non-legal reprints and newly designed cards. which makes sense because people have been asking for such a thing for pretty much as long as modern has been a format. its an idea that has only grown with age as the gap in power level between modern and standard gets more apparent.
personally, while im certainly intrigued by the idea, i feel like its one of those 'be careful what you wish for' type deals.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I missed it due to its different wording. I added it to my list of cards to buy! It's even a kind of SB card against lantern.
Also, as a correction to your original list, Diminishing Returns is not Modern Legal. Not that it matters a lot, since it isn't a great card. But, these are (which were not on your original list):
Thanks! I don't know why my gatherer search missed those. I don't remember the exact search I used. This card in particular is close to what I'd want to play. The mana cost plus activation cost is just a bit steep for a format like modern. Especially the activation cost. Can't afford to keep two mana up. Wheel of Sun and moon it will be for now. (It's color intensive though, which doesn't fit well for humans, RiP is still easier to cast even though it's 1 mana more. For spirits though, WoSaM is okay and I will replace my RiP with them for that deck.)
Edit: oh crap, right, WoSaM doesn't get rid of the cards already in the GY. Oh well. It's weird that Wizards designers seem to think that making a player shuffle his/her graveyard is worth 3 (sorcery) or 4 mana (instant, with maybe cantrip attached). You can kill creatures, enchantments, artifacts (with replicate on top), get rid of all creatures (as a miracle), etc for 1 mana, but shuffling a GY once is 3 or 4. Crazy.
Edit: oh crap, right, WoSaM doesn't get rid of the cards already in the GY. Oh well. It's weird that Wizards designers seem to think that making a player shuffle his/her graveyard is worth 3 (sorcery) or 4 mana (instant, with maybe cantrip attached). You can kill creatures, enchantments, artifacts (with replicate on top), get rid of all creatures (as a miracle), etc for 1 mana, but shuffling a GY once is 3 or 4. Crazy.
Probably because putting into the library from the graveyard isn't just grave hate, it's also mill hate, if you can target either your opponent or yourself, but also, even more dangerously, it lets stall type decks win by letting the opponent 'mill' without actually milling, potentially creating super-long games, which is something they prefer to avoid. Doing some combination of those three depending on circumstances is probably enough to push the cmc higher for them.
My guess is a supplemental set that's Modern legal, because we know there are cards they want to inject into Modern but don't want in Standard, like Counterspell. [...].
Are there any sources for this? Are WotC actually looking for ways to bypass standard because they would like to make certain cards Modern legal?
MaRo has said they've discussed the idea internally. I think he's also said that he feels actual-factual Counterspell is about the right power-level for Modern, but would never get OK'd for a Standard legal set, at least not at the current accepted power-level.
Here's a list of existing cards:
Day's Undoing (Gives 7 cards to your opponent, ends your turn, 2U)
Diminishing Returns (Gives 7 cards to your opponent, 2UU)
Emergency Powers (Gives 7 cards to your opponent, 5WU)
Jace, the Living Guildpact (Ultimate, costs 8 loyalty, 2UU)
Commit // Memory (Memory part, cast from the graveyard, 4UU)
Primal Command (3GG)
Quest for Ancient Secrets (Needs 5 quest counters, U)
Struggle // Survive (Survive part, cast from the graveyard, 1G)
Almost... they only affect you, not your opponent:
Archangel's Light (7W)
Elixir of Immortality (2 to activate, 1)
Enhanced Surveillance (1U)
Feldon's Cane (1)
Gaea's Blessing (Only when put in the graveyard from the library, 1G)
Perpetual Timepiece (2 to activate, 2)
The cleanest one is of course Feldon's Cane. All others cost too much and most have a huge drawback or requirement before being cast. Quest for ancient secrets would be nice if it required fewer counters. If only it could target any player, that would be it. Given that we have multiple artifact in the same mana cost range that *exile* the graveyard, I don't think it's unthinkable to see such a design. It's almost surprising that the design doesn't exists already.
And he's right, there are games in which GY hate doesn't inconvenience the deck too much, but games in which the deck chugs out a bunch of cantrips and Phoenixes to the yard can be turned around by GY hate, in my (limited)experience Ravenous Trap in particular shines vs Phoenix and Storm (the reason I got them in the first place) since they can't see it and play around it so easily.
I think it goes without saying that expecting your hate cards to win the game while you're durdling around isn't a sound plan, you need to apply some pressure if you don't want them assembling another full yard for Phoenixes or Drakes to come out of nowhere and still beat you, like in the first post-board game with him going first and slamming 2 Phoenixes on turn 3 then doing it again after I went T4 Tron, play+pop Oblivion Stone. I did win the 3rd one thanks to aBane of Bala Ged dropped right after I Ravenous Traped his GY away.
i guess another piece of GY hate that shuffles them in would be welcomed, but really id rather see some kind of modal card/effect than anything specific. im assuming you are asking for shuffling because its the only way to turn off crackling drake? or is it just something you want 'just because'?
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
maybe true, but a new product means a good chance to have an unbanning coinciding with a reprint.
the timing is a bit strained though. next b&r is mar 11, and march has 1 GP before that and 3 after; followed by another on april 12.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Sounds like you're looking for a buffed version of Wheel of Sun and Moon.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)You seem to have missed Clear the Mind? I mean, it's not a good card, but you seem to have others that aren't really playable there as well.
a reprinting with an unbanning is plausible. challenger decks though? it just doesnt align with what maro said. i know the guy can be a clown and can get excited to excess over anything magic related; but consider:
-idea birthed during the first 'hackathon' which had to happen in 2017 or earlier
-innovative
what would functionally be a rehashing of modern event decks don't fit either of those. the turnaround on the first standard challenger decks was less than a year (we know because they were based off pro-tour decks). up until a few months ago we know that masters sets werent slated to end indefinitely; which means they would have been developing this product/idea along side them - which served the role of a reprint outlet. SFM also would have been an easy inclusion into UMA if they were planning an unban that far out, even if it wasnt on theme, since we know they did last minute changes to boost the value of the set. which would have set them up perfectly to do a january unban.
that isnt to say that sfm wont get jammed into this new product, but a challenger deck has to be representative of some competitive deck or archetype from somewhere.
given that and it supposedly innovative in some way i cant see challenger decks fitting. some specialty booster set akin to battlebond or conspiracy seems way more likely imo. just conjecture though, and ill admit that wizards has done dumber things so we will see.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Right?
havent watched the vid personally, but from what was said in the 'considering modern only boosters' thread it sounds like he denied the possibility or at least implied.
its certainly a conundrum, because it is hard to envision what the new modern 'thing' is and its easy to default to something bypassing standard because a re-branding of modern masters or precons dont make much sense. they have already been tried in one form, and it would hardly be innovative or new.
probably best to keep low expectations
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)If we stay in the category of a booster-based product, it could be a supplementary set that happens to have a large number of Modern reprints, with the new stuff being legacy/vintage/EDH/casual/etc. as usual.
Outside of boosters, we could also get a product similar to Signature Spellbook or Commander's Arsenal (in terms of price, probably), with fixed non-foil cards packaged with a random foil. It would cut the logistical fat (and chaff) away from precons while still providing meaningful reprints. Moving away from boosters and decks on a large scale might be too big a leap for a company that has only dabbled in such a thing over the years, though.
Are there any sources for this? Are WotC actually looking for ways to bypass standard because they would like to make certain cards Modern legal?
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
I missed it due to its different wording. I added it to my list of cards to buy! It's even a kind of SB card against lantern.
they did a survey a while back (august last year) asking people what they thought of the idea of a modern-only booster type product for non-legal reprints and newly designed cards. which makes sense because people have been asking for such a thing for pretty much as long as modern has been a format. its an idea that has only grown with age as the gap in power level between modern and standard gets more apparent.
personally, while im certainly intrigued by the idea, i feel like its one of those 'be careful what you wish for' type deals.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Time Reversal
Temporal Cascade
Cranial Archive
Learn from the Past
Loaming Shaman
Mnemonic Nexus
Reminisce
Struggle // Survive (The Survive Half)
Sway of the Stars (This is a bit of a stretch)
Thanks! I don't know why my gatherer search missed those. I don't remember the exact search I used. This card in particular is close to what I'd want to play. The mana cost plus activation cost is just a bit steep for a format like modern. Especially the activation cost. Can't afford to keep two mana up. Wheel of Sun and moon it will be for now. (It's color intensive though, which doesn't fit well for humans, RiP is still easier to cast even though it's 1 mana more. For spirits though, WoSaM is okay and I will replace my RiP with them for that deck.)
Edit: oh crap, right, WoSaM doesn't get rid of the cards already in the GY. Oh well. It's weird that Wizards designers seem to think that making a player shuffle his/her graveyard is worth 3 (sorcery) or 4 mana (instant, with maybe cantrip attached). You can kill creatures, enchantments, artifacts (with replicate on top), get rid of all creatures (as a miracle), etc for 1 mana, but shuffling a GY once is 3 or 4. Crazy.
Probably because putting into the library from the graveyard isn't just grave hate, it's also mill hate, if you can target either your opponent or yourself, but also, even more dangerously, it lets stall type decks win by letting the opponent 'mill' without actually milling, potentially creating super-long games, which is something they prefer to avoid. Doing some combination of those three depending on circumstances is probably enough to push the cmc higher for them.
MaRo has said they've discussed the idea internally. I think he's also said that he feels actual-factual Counterspell is about the right power-level for Modern, but would never get OK'd for a Standard legal set, at least not at the current accepted power-level.
No thanks, cp is way too powerful for modern.