this type of thread and what we are generally discussing lends itself towards negativity, emphasizing the flaws, and harsh criticisms. it isnt reddit or god forbid twitch chat status, but hyperbole and making mountains out of molehills has been ingrained into moderns personality or whatever you wanna call it. we are the 'middle child' format and drama suits us.
i mean lets be real here, modern players love *****ing about the format about as much as they love playing it.
I mean, I've done it plenty of times myself, but I can also recognize the voice(s) of reason when I've seen them. I also do believe that Modern would be crap without some negativity. I mean, how much negativity does Frontier have? None, because literally no one cares. People care about Modern. Where I live, there are plenty of players who BREATHE Modern. At any given tournament, there are around 10-20 players that could easily take me out. I just don't see that often nowadays. Even Standard, which I rarely, rarely play, I hardly see more than 5 players at most that could take me out. (Sorry to be so blunt; but outside of extreme variance, I hold to this statement.)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Kaya a 2 cmc planeswalker? I fear the coming of Tybalt 2.0 - will be near unplayable, because they will be afraid 2 cmc walkers will be abused if given decent abilities.
No I mean if her -1 hit anything 2 CMC or less. Though her +1 is still pretty useless. I mean 2 Life gain if you hit a creature. Especially since this is an early game Walker so there might be nothing to exile when you drop her if you drop her on Turn 3. I mean I suppose her +1 is suppose to fight recursion but single target exiling aint the best way to be recursion decks. In terms of design I much prefer Sarkhan dragon focus (I want to see an Elf version). Whereas Dovin is around cause we wanted to shackle Teferi.
Ok, I see what you mean now. Oh well, if Kaya minus ability removed nonland permanents two or less she would be in my SCG shopping cart. Because I needed a walker in mardu colors who can remove rest in peace. However, since Kaya cannot remove a r.i.p.. I have Nahiri, the harbinger in cart instead, to be ordered once I get the february paycheck.
The fact that Kaya was designed with modern IN MIND, doesn't necessarily imply that it will also be a GREAT card. They are exploring possibilities and printing cards. Balancing 280 card sets is pretty hard and you don't want to go overboard with anything just to make something viable in one format. Rending Volley was designed with modern in mind but in the end, it was not enough to do anything. Even Fatal Push was probably designed WITH fetchland synergy in mind. There is no reason to believe otherwise.
This right here, is my homestead argument as to why Wizards needs to stop printing huge sets with next to no purpose. It's so easy for us as a community to evaluate Kaya in mere minutes, but I understand the other side of the coin when developing cards. So stop printing tons of chaff? Limited apparently doesn't get coverage or even a Trophy anymore, our card stock is half of what it used to be since Theros. So now their best design team just does shot in the dark cards for Modern now?
It's pretty damn simple that this community doesn't want shots in the dark card design. It's really frustrating to know that this design team says "We were worried about Phoenix and the potential impact on Modern" and at the same time "Yeah this Kaya card is gonna be super realz for dem Modern players!"
this type of thread and what we are generally discussing lends itself towards negativity, emphasizing the flaws, and harsh criticisms. it isnt reddit or god forbid twitch chat status, but hyperbole and making mountains out of molehills has been ingrained into moderns personality or whatever you wanna call it. we are the 'middle child' format and drama suits us.
i mean lets be real here, modern players love *****ing about the format about as much as they love playing it.
I mean, I've done it plenty of times myself, but I can also recognize the voice(s) of reason when I've seen them. I also do believe that Modern would be crap without some negativity. I mean, how much negativity does Frontier have? None, because literally no one cares. People care about Modern. Where I live, there are plenty of players who BREATHE Modern. At any given tournament, there are around 10-20 players that could easily take me out. I just don't see that often nowadays. Even Standard, which I rarely, rarely play, I hardly see more than 5 players at most that could take me out. (Sorry to be so blunt; but outside of extreme variance, I hold to this statement.)
oh dont get me wrong, i wasnt throwing shade at modern critics (well some of them anyways). im right there with you with thinking that for a good portion of modern players its a display a passion for the format.
modern bashing, and to some degree wizards bashing, has gotten to meme levels yet the format, popularity wise, has still done great. if things were really so bad you wouldnt see me and many others on their personal soapbox giving long winded diatribes supporting one view or another about how the format/game should be handled, yet still going on playing and thinking about the format as much as usual.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I mean I suppose it makes sense Walkers are the faces and main characters of Magic now so making them broader and more playable in key formats does seem like a good idea. I do like we went away from the Ob Nixilis Standard though in this set.
As for Nahiri I am fan her powerset is pretty cool character wise.
3 cmc is definitely more playable than 5 cmc. However, I do remember even Ob-Nix was used in a few Jund sideboards years ago.
As for Nahiri.. her card is useful, and I like her battle with Sorin in the story. In particular, I need her minus to get rid of enchantments.. and +2 loyalty makes her not easy to kill with damage.
The fact that Kaya was designed with modern IN MIND, doesn't necessarily imply that it will also be a GREAT card. They are exploring possibilities and printing cards. Balancing 280 card sets is pretty hard and you don't want to go overboard with anything just to make something viable in one format. Rending Volley was designed with modern in mind but in the end, it was not enough to do anything. Even Fatal Push was probably designed WITH fetchland synergy in mind. There is no reason to believe otherwise.
This right here, is my homestead argument as to why Wizards needs to stop printing huge sets with next to no purpose. It's so easy for us as a community to evaluate Kaya in mere minutes, but I understand the other side of the coin when developing cards. So stop printing tons of chaff? Limited apparently doesn't get coverage or even a Trophy anymore, our card stock is half of what it used to be since Theros. So now their best design team just does shot in the dark cards for Modern now?
It's pretty damn simple that this community doesn't want shots in the dark card design. It's really frustrating to know that this design team says "We were worried about Phoenix and the potential impact on Modern" and at the same time "Yeah this Kaya card is gonna be super realz for dem Modern players!"
I can see the argument, I might not agree with this line of thought, but at least it is an argument, and not format bashing.
I could get behind a reduced card pool, but then Standard would be way too easy to solve. Maybe limited is not getting coverage, but it remains one of the most popular formats for LGSs. It is a main avenue for selling packs, and at the same time, it is the easiest way for new players to get into magic and start collecting their cards without getting absolutely DESTROYED by having subpar entry decks. So in that regard, I don't see them reducing the card pool significantly, and personally I don't mind. Draft is great, it gives a larger card pool for standard to make it a bit more diverse, and it makes for a great entry for new players.
In regards to modern and modern cards, I don't think that was their statement for Kaya . They said, well we design this card with modern in mind, let's see how it pans out. It didn't, and I agree that it would be easy to see why it wouldn't, but on the other hand, 3 mana planeswaklers have always been dominant, so I can see why they are careful with designing them. Maybe the flop of Kaya will make them be a bit more bold with the next 3 mana planeswalker.
The statement about Phoenix does show that they are aware of what is going on in the format. Of potential impactful cards etc.
And of course we don't want shot in the dark card design, but it is also a valid strategy out of the 1000 cards designed every year (ok maybe I exaggerated the number). Again, I think the fact that there are SO many cards that made into modern from the latest sets really shows that they are very capable in designing well balanced cards which enhance/spark archetypes while not being extremely oppressive. The occasional mistake of course happens, but it makes sense with the huge cardpool that modern is.
Anything interesting coming out of SCG this weekend?
I'm not sure. I was mostly watching my own local Invitational tournament instead.
From what I saw, the meta looks the same; just no KCI.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Replying to @TolarianCollege
Something I’ve said on my blog - this product is this year’s innovation product and was created through our very first Hackathon. If you guys don’t love it, I’d be floored. #WotCStaff
This could be the long-desired set that allows cards to enter Modern while bypassing Standard. Or it could just be desired reprints to lower prices. Either way, this should be a net gain for Modern players, and we should see it announced this month.
The war on blue is a myth. See Teferi, Search, Opt, and Nexus. The war on control is a myth too. See Settle, Teferi, Search, and others. But the war on data? That is a very real platform that Wizards continues to push to this day, and I feel it receives far less attention than all the other unproven allegations.
I wouldn't say there is a war, but there is a design gap in blue spells that hasn't been filled (in modern) since counterspell was powered down and bounce indirectly weakened by the printing of creatures with ETB spells attached on them. Other than cantriping, blue spells just don't do interesting things anymore. Even draw is dubious because multiple mechanics allow you to draw (in some shape or form) a hell of a lot of cards without committing to blue at all - dredge, cycle, looting.
In the top 50 most played spells in modern there are 10 blue cards. 4 are cantrips (so, essentially ways to create non-cards and increase deck consistency) and the rest are counterspells, most of which are fringe sideboard inclusions.
I think there is space there they just aren't using.
In the top 50 most played spells in modern there are 10 blue cards. 4 are cantrips (so, essentially ways to create non-cards and increase deck consistency) and the rest are counterspells, most of which are fringe sideboard inclusions.
I think there is space there they just aren't using.
Doesn't this contradict your point, thought? There are 5 colors in Magic and blue takes up exactly 1/5th of the top spells? And 60% of those cards are more than just cantrips?
Replying to @TolarianCollege
Something I’ve said on my blog - this product is this year’s innovation product and was created through our very first Hackathon. If you guys don’t love it, I’d be floored. #WotCStaff
This could be the long-desired set that allows cards to enter Modern while bypassing Standard. Or it could just be desired reprints to lower prices. Either way, this should be a net gain for Modern players, and we should see it announced this month.
interesting. from what they said on the twitch stream i wasnt sure if it would be a product or what (but likely a product); so confirmation is nice.
i think you may be right. an innovative product implies something new, so a masters re-brand and nothing else wouldnt make much sense; and i think a rehash of modern event decks can be ruled out as well.
as for the optimism that it will be well received, if it was from anyone other than maro i'd be more excited.
edit: i looked up what a 'hackathon' was for wotc (as opposed to how its used in software dev), and apparently it period where they focus primarily about future products, etc. looking at some dates i found, the 'first hackathon' where this new product idea came up happened in 2017 or earlier. so that should give some perspective on what kind of timeline wizards is working on.
In the top 50 most played spells in modern there are 10 blue cards. 4 are cantrips (so, essentially ways to create non-cards and increase deck consistency) and the rest are counterspells, most of which are fringe sideboard inclusions.
I think there is space there they just aren't using.
Doesn't this contradict your point, thought? There are 5 colors in Magic and blue takes up exactly 1/5th of the top spells? And 60% of those cards are more than just cantrips?
Of that 60% practically all are narrow sideboard counterspells, or cards with a very specific fit to a particular deck: Ceremonious, Spell Pierce, Dispel. Disdainful Stroke and Stubborn Denial. The only really 'good' card and an interesting design to boot is Cryptic Command and that is always going to of limited use due to its mana cost (nothing wrong with that, it's strong and there's a good reason for it's mana cost).
In terms of raw power (taking into account CMC) and flexibility (in terms of how many decks you can jam them in, or how many things they hit), they're all far behind Bolt, Thoughtsieze, Fatal Push and others top modern cards. Low CMC + wide range of targets/uses = power.
Anyway, I didn't say blue was underrepresented, I said the design space for the cards they're printing is unexplored. First, counterspells are supposed to be narrow now, because of the power of interacting on the stack. So they take a hit - let's say that's fine. BUt on top of this, free counterspell hate has become available. In the decks where it's played Caverns is a no drawback card. Aether Vial is not, but it still makes counterspells all but dead in the part of the game where it's relevant. All these cards come online before meaningful interaction with them is available.
So you're strictly worse off trying to fight on the stack in many (but not all) situations. Okay. But bounce is generally worse than it was as well. Many creatures have value just by being cast, sometimes to the point that bounce is a disaster for the player using it. Tuck is very expensive on the few cards it appears - completely overcosted for Modern playability. Case in point, not a single bounce or tuck spell is among the blue cards played in modern.
If you can't reliably deal with things on the stack and you can't deal with resolved permanents, that suggests to me that there is a gap. Don't get me wrong, no card deals with all things, all the time - otherwise we'd all be playing it. But to say that Thougthsieze and any of the one mana counterspells I listed are in the same league is just wrong.
Not really. KCI was actually a pretty decent match up in my experience.
It was likely even a favorable matchup until KCI started playing Spine. That alone made game 1 terrible for Whir since it needed to have both the lock and the two Tormod's Crypt with a Jar in play to exile Spine in response to its trigger and through a Retriever.
You know, we discount team events, with reason! but when other players, your friends, are counting on you? Your not going to play jank. I wouldnt be shocked to see that Top 8 at any GP/Pro Tour level event.
Team
1. RUG Phoenix
2. R Phoenix
3. GDS
4. Amulet
5. GDS
6. Dredge
7. Tron
8. Burn
Classic
Jeskai Control
Azorius Control
Mono-Green Tron
Burn
Bant Spirits
Jeskai Control
Whir Prison
Colorless Eldrazi
not surprising to see 3 known UWx control players blowing up the classic. that goryo's vengeance list looks pretty sweet with the addition of electrodominance alongside as foretold.
the real gem though is overturf's temur traverse phoenix.
edit: i thought light up the stage might be feasible in mono-r phoenix even with the downside of possibly exiling some number of phoenixes. cant say for sure how well that list on the second place team did, but its some evidence in its favor.
edit2: according to some reddit poster the mono-r phoenix player went 16-0 in personal matches. impressive if true.
Overturf with 2 Life Goes On in his sideboard, that's wild. He tweeted it out earlier this week in reference to Burn being so popular (which it is, disgustingly so on MTGO), but I thought it was more tongue-in-cheek. Hilarious and awesome to see him win the tournament with 2 in his deck.
It was a good call. Burn was already on the come up when it got new toys in the new set. I personally played 3 Dragon's Claw for the first time that I can remember in Modern last Friday (I think I may have had some for a while in Skred or something...)
Nice to see people stomping on Burn, lol.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Tired of all the shuffling in modern. Really wish fetchlands had never been created. But then we'd probably be complaining of mana screw.
Shuffling is probably the thing I hate most about magic is why I like online so much. It really is amazing how much more magic you can play on arena/mtgo versus in paper just because of shuffling and the like.
In the top 50 most played spells in modern there are 10 blue cards. 4 are cantrips (so, essentially ways to create non-cards and increase deck consistency) and the rest are counterspells, most of which are fringe sideboard inclusions.
I think there is space there they just aren't using.
Doesn't this contradict your point, thought? There are 5 colors in Magic and blue takes up exactly 1/5th of the top spells? And 60% of those cards are more than just cantrips?
Of that 60% practically all are narrow sideboard counterspells, or cards with a very specific fit to a particular deck: Ceremonious, Spell Pierce, Dispel. Disdainful Stroke and Stubborn Denial. The only really 'good' card and an interesting design to boot is Cryptic Command and that is always going to of limited use due to its mana cost (nothing wrong with that, it's strong and there's a good reason for it's mana cost).
In terms of raw power (taking into account CMC) and flexibility (in terms of how many decks you can jam them in, or how many things they hit), they're all far behind Bolt, Thoughtsieze, Fatal Push and others top modern cards. Low CMC + wide range of targets/uses = power.
Anyway, I didn't say blue was underrepresented, I said the design space for the cards they're printing is unexplored. First, counterspells are supposed to be narrow now, because of the power of interacting on the stack. So they take a hit - let's say that's fine. BUt on top of this, free counterspell hate has become available. In the decks where it's played Caverns is a no drawback card. Aether Vial is not, but it still makes counterspells all but dead in the part of the game where it's relevant. All these cards come online before meaningful interaction with them is available.
So you're strictly worse off trying to fight on the stack in many (but not all) situations. Okay. But bounce is generally worse than it was as well. Many creatures have value just by being cast, sometimes to the point that bounce is a disaster for the player using it. Tuck is very expensive on the few cards it appears - completely overcosted for Modern playability. Case in point, not a single bounce or tuck spell is among the blue cards played in modern.
If you can't reliably deal with things on the stack and you can't deal with resolved permanents, that suggests to me that there is a gap. Don't get me wrong, no card deals with all things, all the time - otherwise we'd all be playing it. But to say that Thougthsieze and any of the one mana counterspells I listed are in the same league is just wrong.
I agree with you, blue is so bad at what it’s supposed to do. My idea is to give the color a bounce and torpor effect to prevent the etb of said creature so it doesn’t feel horrible to use bounce. But we all know it would be overcosted and useless outside standard.
My other idea was to have more cost efficient freeze effects like singing bell strike
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
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I mean, I've done it plenty of times myself, but I can also recognize the voice(s) of reason when I've seen them. I also do believe that Modern would be crap without some negativity. I mean, how much negativity does Frontier have? None, because literally no one cares. People care about Modern. Where I live, there are plenty of players who BREATHE Modern. At any given tournament, there are around 10-20 players that could easily take me out. I just don't see that often nowadays. Even Standard, which I rarely, rarely play, I hardly see more than 5 players at most that could take me out. (Sorry to be so blunt; but outside of extreme variance, I hold to this statement.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Ok, I see what you mean now. Oh well, if Kaya minus ability removed nonland permanents two or less she would be in my SCG shopping cart. Because I needed a walker in mardu colors who can remove rest in peace. However, since Kaya cannot remove a r.i.p.. I have Nahiri, the harbinger in cart instead, to be ordered once I get the february paycheck.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
This right here, is my homestead argument as to why Wizards needs to stop printing huge sets with next to no purpose. It's so easy for us as a community to evaluate Kaya in mere minutes, but I understand the other side of the coin when developing cards. So stop printing tons of chaff? Limited apparently doesn't get coverage or even a Trophy anymore, our card stock is half of what it used to be since Theros. So now their best design team just does shot in the dark cards for Modern now?
It's pretty damn simple that this community doesn't want shots in the dark card design. It's really frustrating to know that this design team says "We were worried about Phoenix and the potential impact on Modern" and at the same time "Yeah this Kaya card is gonna be super realz for dem Modern players!"
oh dont get me wrong, i wasnt throwing shade at modern critics (well some of them anyways). im right there with you with thinking that for a good portion of modern players its a display a passion for the format.
modern bashing, and to some degree wizards bashing, has gotten to meme levels yet the format, popularity wise, has still done great. if things were really so bad you wouldnt see me and many others on their personal soapbox giving long winded diatribes supporting one view or another about how the format/game should be handled, yet still going on playing and thinking about the format as much as usual.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)As for Nahiri I am fan her powerset is pretty cool character wise.
As for Nahiri.. her card is useful, and I like her battle with Sorin in the story. In particular, I need her minus to get rid of enchantments.. and +2 loyalty makes her not easy to kill with damage.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I could get behind a reduced card pool, but then Standard would be way too easy to solve. Maybe limited is not getting coverage, but it remains one of the most popular formats for LGSs. It is a main avenue for selling packs, and at the same time, it is the easiest way for new players to get into magic and start collecting their cards without getting absolutely DESTROYED by having subpar entry decks. So in that regard, I don't see them reducing the card pool significantly, and personally I don't mind. Draft is great, it gives a larger card pool for standard to make it a bit more diverse, and it makes for a great entry for new players.
In regards to modern and modern cards, I don't think that was their statement for Kaya . They said, well we design this card with modern in mind, let's see how it pans out. It didn't, and I agree that it would be easy to see why it wouldn't, but on the other hand, 3 mana planeswaklers have always been dominant, so I can see why they are careful with designing them. Maybe the flop of Kaya will make them be a bit more bold with the next 3 mana planeswalker.
The statement about Phoenix does show that they are aware of what is going on in the format. Of potential impactful cards etc.
And of course we don't want shot in the dark card design, but it is also a valid strategy out of the 1000 cards designed every year (ok maybe I exaggerated the number). Again, I think the fact that there are SO many cards that made into modern from the latest sets really shows that they are very capable in designing well balanced cards which enhance/spark archetypes while not being extremely oppressive. The occasional mistake of course happens, but it makes sense with the huge cardpool that modern is.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
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Spirits
I'm not sure. I was mostly watching my own local Invitational tournament instead.
From what I saw, the meta looks the same; just no KCI.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/amsxee/new_modern_product_announcement_coming_this_month/
https://mobile.twitter.com/maro254/status/1092137659101675520
This could be the long-desired set that allows cards to enter Modern while bypassing Standard. Or it could just be desired reprints to lower prices. Either way, this should be a net gain for Modern players, and we should see it announced this month.
I wouldn't say there is a war, but there is a design gap in blue spells that hasn't been filled (in modern) since counterspell was powered down and bounce indirectly weakened by the printing of creatures with ETB spells attached on them. Other than cantriping, blue spells just don't do interesting things anymore. Even draw is dubious because multiple mechanics allow you to draw (in some shape or form) a hell of a lot of cards without committing to blue at all - dredge, cycle, looting.
In the top 50 most played spells in modern there are 10 blue cards. 4 are cantrips (so, essentially ways to create non-cards and increase deck consistency) and the rest are counterspells, most of which are fringe sideboard inclusions.
I think there is space there they just aren't using.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
interesting. from what they said on the twitch stream i wasnt sure if it would be a product or what (but likely a product); so confirmation is nice.
i think you may be right. an innovative product implies something new, so a masters re-brand and nothing else wouldnt make much sense; and i think a rehash of modern event decks can be ruled out as well.
as for the optimism that it will be well received, if it was from anyone other than maro i'd be more excited.
edit: i looked up what a 'hackathon' was for wotc (as opposed to how its used in software dev), and apparently it period where they focus primarily about future products, etc. looking at some dates i found, the 'first hackathon' where this new product idea came up happened in 2017 or earlier. so that should give some perspective on what kind of timeline wizards is working on.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Of that 60% practically all are narrow sideboard counterspells, or cards with a very specific fit to a particular deck: Ceremonious, Spell Pierce, Dispel. Disdainful Stroke and Stubborn Denial. The only really 'good' card and an interesting design to boot is Cryptic Command and that is always going to of limited use due to its mana cost (nothing wrong with that, it's strong and there's a good reason for it's mana cost).
In terms of raw power (taking into account CMC) and flexibility (in terms of how many decks you can jam them in, or how many things they hit), they're all far behind Bolt, Thoughtsieze, Fatal Push and others top modern cards. Low CMC + wide range of targets/uses = power.
Anyway, I didn't say blue was underrepresented, I said the design space for the cards they're printing is unexplored. First, counterspells are supposed to be narrow now, because of the power of interacting on the stack. So they take a hit - let's say that's fine. BUt on top of this, free counterspell hate has become available. In the decks where it's played Caverns is a no drawback card. Aether Vial is not, but it still makes counterspells all but dead in the part of the game where it's relevant. All these cards come online before meaningful interaction with them is available.
So you're strictly worse off trying to fight on the stack in many (but not all) situations. Okay. But bounce is generally worse than it was as well. Many creatures have value just by being cast, sometimes to the point that bounce is a disaster for the player using it. Tuck is very expensive on the few cards it appears - completely overcosted for Modern playability. Case in point, not a single bounce or tuck spell is among the blue cards played in modern.
If you can't reliably deal with things on the stack and you can't deal with resolved permanents, that suggests to me that there is a gap. Don't get me wrong, no card deals with all things, all the time - otherwise we'd all be playing it. But to say that Thougthsieze and any of the one mana counterspells I listed are in the same league is just wrong.
Team
1. RUG Phoenix
2. R Phoenix
3. GDS
4. Amulet
5. GDS
6. Dredge
7. Tron
8. Burn
Classic
Jeskai Control
Azorius Control
Mono-Green Tron
Burn
Bant Spirits
Jeskai Control
Whir Prison
Colorless Eldrazi
16
Dredge
Golgari Midrange
Goryo's Vengence
Jund
Jund
Hardened Scales
Mono-Red Phoenix
Izzet Phoenix
Spirits
the real gem though is overturf's temur traverse phoenix.
edit: i thought light up the stage might be feasible in mono-r phoenix even with the downside of possibly exiling some number of phoenixes. cant say for sure how well that list on the second place team did, but its some evidence in its favor.
edit2: according to some reddit poster the mono-r phoenix player went 16-0 in personal matches. impressive if true.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Nice to see people stomping on Burn, lol.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I would certainly say so!
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1631350
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Shuffling is probably the thing I hate most about magic is why I like online so much. It really is amazing how much more magic you can play on arena/mtgo versus in paper just because of shuffling and the like.
I agree with you, blue is so bad at what it’s supposed to do. My idea is to give the color a bounce and torpor effect to prevent the etb of said creature so it doesn’t feel horrible to use bounce. But we all know it would be overcosted and useless outside standard.
My other idea was to have more cost efficient freeze effects like singing bell strike
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun