@colt47 I actually don't want them making stronger cards because this sometimes power creeps the game, makes games faster, and makes the game more expensive. fatal push is pretty strong too.
If they make even more powerful cards just to sell the game we all need to stop playing and move on to greener pastures. If someone wants to see what that looks like they can just go look at YuGiOh and how that worked out.
They need to create new ways to play the game to enable a lot of the cards at this point. Pauper took off because of the fact it is by nature cheaper than modern and legacy, while still offering a unique take on the game that is far more basic in play. I also think that is a big motivator for why Wizards would try to push a format like frontier. The main reason they didn't support that format is, well, the same reason that they confirmed with brawl. Unless there is something already there to push the format, declaring support for it does nothing. Force of Will Co has this exact problem in their namesake card game because they burned the bridges with one of their sets, and now they are working day and night to claw their way back to glory.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
In a world of Faithless Looting Abusing Dredge and Hollow One Decks and Aether Vial Human and Spirit Decks...no other boardwipe is fast enough to make any difference at all. Sheesh if you have to wait to turn 4 to boardwipe in a creature light deck you be dead in this format or very near to it that late.
In a world of Faithless Looting Abusing Dredge and Hollow One Decks and Aether Vial Human and Spirit Decks...no other boardwipe is fast enough to make any difference at all. Sheesh if you have to wait to turn 4 to boardwipe in a creature light deck you be dead in this format or very near to it that late.
So then just make a 3 CMC board wipe that they have to tap out at Sorcery speed to cast. As I said, I've got no problem with Terminus, but if people seem hellbent on playing a one mana wrath while leaving shields up to counter / remove future threats, heavy creature decks should have a way to trump that.
Creature decks do have a way to trump that - cavern of souls, collected company, manlands, and good ol' fashioned playing around sweepers. Back in the day you had to know to play around wrath of god by applying enough pressure to force the board wipe while keeping a hand suitable for rebuilding. If you are playing a deck that is more "all in" that can't play an answer to control or play around it, then you are running a deck that is built in part on a risk/reward basis. Reward - win early. Risk - get disrupted and fall way behind.
Control has sucked for years in modern, now there's a viable archetype and people are mad.
In a world of Faithless Looting Abusing Dredge and Hollow One Decks and Aether Vial Human and Spirit Decks...no other boardwipe is fast enough to make any difference at all. Sheesh if you have to wait to turn 4 to boardwipe in a creature light deck you be dead in this format or very near to it that late.
So then just make a 3 CMC board wipe that they have to tap out at Sorcery speed to cast. As I said, I've got no problem with Terminus, but if people seem hellbent on playing a one mana wrath while leaving shields up to counter / remove future threats, heavy creature decks should have a way to trump that.
As many posters have noted, there are plenty of ways to play around or defeat Terminus as a heavy creature deck. Humans can Mage it to prevent its casting or hold back creatures to Vial in later. Dredge can be conservative with Bloodghast recursion, or just win over it with Chill and Conflagrate. Bant Spirits has both Vial and Company to rebuild a board, plus Wanderer to counter it outright. Burn goes under Terminus on the first few turns with hastey critters, then just burns out the UW player. Hardened Scales has manlands to hide counters on in the turns leading up to a Terminus (obviously not in response). Also, all aggro decks can and should be playing around sweepers by not overextending; all Modern aggro has potent enough creatures to exert pressure without building massive Terminus-vulnerable boards.
Is Terminus itself unfair? Sure, I guess. It's unfair in the sense that it cheats on mana. Is every top-tier Modern deck or even top-tier Legacy deck using "unfair" cards that cheat on mana? Absolutely. Does their presence make the decks using such cards also unfair? Nope. Fair decks can and should use unfair cards. That's not a Modern bug. That's a non-rotating format feature.
EDIT: I will also add that there is no metagame data whatsoever that suggests Terminus is particularly unfair in a way that makes UWx decks too good or aggro decks non-viable. Aggro is a defining pillar of Modern right now: all of the decks I mentioned above are indisputable top-tier, viable strategies. Meanwhile, UW Control remains strong, but we saw UW Control fall apart at GP ATL despite a strong Day 2 showing. Its T32 presence showcased significant holes in the strategy. MTGO also shows that UW is just one of many viable options, just as it shows aggro remains a format pillar. All of this further undermines the notion that there is anything particularly unfair about Terminus and its effect on either control or aggro.
Control is an archetype pillar just like Aggro, Midrange and Combo which means it has a few universal traits that will generally be true. Control is beaten by strategies and not by single cards just like is true for every other archetype.
If people have trouble against Control or don't understand what Control is actually about they should watch or play Standard more. Maybe it will be clearer then. Seriously just watch the coverage of GP Milwaukee that was last weekend. Adrian Sullivan won it with his Jeskai Control deck and he won the finals 2-0 against Brian Lynn and his Golgari Midrange deck. That deck packed 4 Carnage Tyrant and that still wasn't enough because on a strategic level it's still inherently disadvantaged. It has no answer to and can't keep up with the value Expansion // Explosion and Niv-Mizzet, Parun generate and Star of Extinction blows up a land and wipes every nonland permanent from the midrange player and again there is nothing he can do about it besides winning before that happens.
Ever heard about Rock,Paper, Scissors? Because that's what it's all about and I can only mirror the sentiment that Im happy that that is finally true for Modern too. There is always a Control deck in Standard and Legacy obviously has the deck that is named after the thing that people complain about here in Miracles and also a few others. Modern for a long time didn't have one. Sure UW/x decks with most of them in the form of Jeskai have always been kinda around but they never quite managed to cement themselves.
And lastly you should be careful what you wish for. Im sure people would cry even more about a 3 CMC sweeper like for example Toxic Deluge. Because then not only would Control wipe your board but also all Midrange decks would clean up your dorky creatures while their generally bigger ones would survive. At the end of the day it would the same thing as it would be against Control just that the game would be over faster.
Also, all aggro decks can and should be playing around sweepers by not overextending; all Modern aggro has potent enough creatures to exert pressure without building massive Terminus-vulnerable boards.
That is a simple, yet effective way to do it. I've seen Elves slowly kill UW by constant beatdown of 1/1 and 2/2 elves.
Terminus decks are good decks but plenty of things scarier than them in Modern. I don't understand why terminus is a problem.
Bloodghast would probably be the most sensible ban if you just wanted to hit dredge, hollow one, and bridge-vine while leaving Mardu Pyromancer and the other Faithless Looting decks alone.
Honestly, without Bloodghast, Grave-Troll and Dread Return would probably both be fine to bring back. Not that this would ever happen, although Dread Return would be a fun card to play around in a reanimator strategy alongside Lingering Souls.
Also, all aggro decks can and should be playing around sweepers by not overextending; all Modern aggro has potent enough creatures to exert pressure without building massive Terminus-vulnerable boards.
That is a simple, yet effective way to do it. I've seen Elves slowly kill UW by constant beatdown of 1/1 and 2/2 elves.
Terminus decks are good decks but plenty of things scarier than them in Modern. I don't understand why terminus is a problem.
Because people dont like it when what they want to do is stopped. They would rather lose in a goldfish game, than have someone say 'no'. Its a psychology thing.
yeah terminus is a stupid card because the miracle is a stupid mechanic. personally id rather rely on a card that i can count on rather than some increased probability to randomly swing a game in my favor. but it is what it is.
when the format becomes increasingly about low probability nut draws just ending games before they begin, the only recourse is to have something like that of your own.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
yeah terminus is a stupid card because the miracle is a stupid mechanic. personally id rather rely on a card that i can count on rather than some increased probability to randomly swing a game in my favor. but it is what it is.
when the format becomes increasingly about low probability nut draws just ending games before they begin, the only recourse is to have something like that of your own.
Exactly. I had a guy yesterday, game 3 he was on hollow one, I'm on Arclight, dump out 2 Hollow Ones on his Turn 1 (my Turn 0) and sigh.
Me: 'Whats up, thats a great start'
Him: 'Yeah I'm just tired of this deck'
Me: 'Why, thats what its meant to do'
Him: 'Yeah, but I dont feel I won because I did anything well, it just plays itself.'
Obviously that game was a win for him, the only chance I would have had, would be to be on UW, and Miracle them away on Turn 2 or 3.
Thats why come Monday, if I dont get Twin back, I'm outta here till the next unban, or next set. Format is painful to play right now.
EDIT: Oh, and Game 1 I lost to a blind Burning Inquiring, that took 3 of my lands, and left me on a single Red for 4 turns!
yeah hollow one is a perfect example. it gets a pass because the chances it drops 2-4 hollow one on turn 1 is really slim. this is the case for a lot of the top decks right now: dredge, hollow one, tron, bridgevine, arclight phoenix, infect, kci, storm, hardened scales, ...
some number of games they just win before turn 4 even comes around. none is breaking the 'turn 4 rule', but added together its a noticeable shift in the overall experience.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
The Hollow One scenario is something that I see happen far too often, but the chance of it happening more than once out of 3 games is not very high. So the best thing you can do is scoop up your cards and go to the next game.
My proposed rule change to fix a lot of these issues was "no spells may be cast on the first turn of the game", which would at least allow interaction against turn 1 Hollow One(s) whether it be Thoughtseize/Spell Pierce/ect, regardless if you were on the play or draw.
Assuming wizards has no intention of implementing any rules change such as this one, even though I believe it would do wonders, their best bet would be a well-placed ban of either Bloodghast or Faithless Looting to reduce the overall power level and consistency of decks such Dredge, Bridge-vine, and Hollow One and knock them to the fringes of the format where many I am sure would be glad to see them.
It would not make sense to ban either Burning Inquiry or Hollow One themselves because those two cards only see play in that one archetype, one that is not currently taking up too much of a meta share. As bad as Burning Inquiry can be, it would not be an issue if the rest of the deck was inconsistent and thus not worth playing as a serious meta choice.
PREACH but everyone here tells me Faithless doesnt deserved to be banned.
Bloodghast might be the better hit though, as it doesn't hurt Mardu Pyromancer or the new Phoenix decks but hits Hollow One and, more importantly, dredge.
He did some testing, shown in other modernnexus articles, and came to the conclusion that Green Sun's Zenith is "not safe" in Modern. I'm not sure where he actually gave specific examples of why it's not safe, but that was his conclusion after testing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think thats the site that said Jace was too risky. Sooooooooooooooo.
Yep. He said it was "broken," but didn't really give a reason why it's "broken."
I know there are other unbans that should be talked about first, but I'm kind of giving some a pass because many people already agree on those. As for Green Sun's Zenith, there's still fear. The one that gets me the most is "Oh, Green Sun's Zenith for Dryad Arbor" as if that beats Humans, KCI, UW RIP Control, or Dredge.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Just for the record, I am perfectly fine with Terminus and don't think the card should be banned, but the poster above asked why you should be able to do that. Sometimes you're topdecking with Jund and they pay W and steal the game from you. Thoughtseize, Liliana's +1 or Thrun just can't prevent that. A lucky topdeck and you're a goner. Same with Spirits: Selfless Spirit and Spell Queller can't nab the card. Or you managed to win an uphill battle and resolved an Etched Champion that will end the game next turn, but oh I pay W in what's suppossed to be my last draw step and steal the game from you. Sorry, GG. I get that there have to be powerful catch-all answers, but really, if they're allowed to have such a cheap, lopsided answer that makes all games against creature decks "if he topdecks Terminus I lose, if not I win" that prevents graveyard resiliency for such a cheap price that they can keep mana open to counter or kill whatever you drop next, I should be able to play a similar card, be it in Jund, Spirits, Affinity, Humans or whatever.
What you're basically saying is, "I want a card that there is no answer for," and that is a terrible idea. Yeah, if UW finds a Terminus for one of your difficult to deal with threats it can often be what wins them the game, but if they don't find the Terminus they're going to lose to it. You never want cards that can't be answered, that's bad game design, and a big reason why Standard was rancid for years. They were printing powerful strategies without good answers for them.
And the only reason why UW went to playing Terminus was because of the busted stuff people were doing with reduced casting costs and graveyard recursion. You say, "If they have Terminus, I should have something they can't answer," but in reality Terminus is in response to things like Hollow One, Bridgevine, Dredge, and other decks that can swarm the board on turns 1 or 2 and have threats that don't really care about going to the graveyard. Terminus is the only reason why blue control was able to survive in a meta with those decks, so you're looking at things completely backwards if you think Terminus is the problem here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
In the end, you beat UW either by racing before a Terminus, putting them within lethal burn prior to a terminus, or, by utilzing something like Blue Moon to force them to play on their turn, instead of yours.
Terminus is as noted, a symptom of how Modern has forced even fair decks, to play unhealthy cards. One needs only look at how warped UWR decks became, with Terminus main deck, and Field of Ruin, to try and compete, to see the lengths people will go to in trying to keep up with the degenerate format.
In the end, i'm living by wrapters post now.
Do Answers Line up with Threats? No? Play Linear.
Do Answers Line up with Threats? Yes? No, but I play Control so I'm going to play Control anyway.
Modern's answers are not sufficient, another line is, there are answers for everything, but your deck cannot answer everything.
In the end, you beat UW either by racing before a Terminus, putting them within lethal burn prior to a terminus, or, by utilzing something like Blue Moon to force them to play on their turn, instead of yours.
Terminus is as noted, a symptom of how Modern has forced even fair decks, to play unhealthy cards. One needs only look at how warped UWR decks became, with Terminus main deck, and Field of Ruin, to try and compete, to see the lengths people will go to in trying to keep up with the degenerate format.
In the end, i'm living by wrapters post now.
Do Answers Line up with Threats? No? Play Linear.
Do Answers Line up with Threats? Yes? No, but I play Control so I'm going to play Control anyway.
Modern's answers are not sufficient, another line is, there are answers for everything, but your deck cannot answer everything.
Thats Modern.
I don't disagree, amd also don't think this is bad. Your observation is often shared by others as a negative one that highlights a unique Modern problem. By contrast, I view it as a feature of the format that contributes to its popularity and valued diversity. If such a deck existed, it would be THE deck to play, especially by pros. This is not a particularly fun format vision for me and, I believe, for many other players who enjoy Magic's most popular format.
I dont accept it would not be the same, with Twin around. Thats really all it boils down to. If I have to play against Burning Inquiry and 2 Hollow Ones before I've played a land (assuming I still have lands to play) then everyone should have to play against Twin.
If thats not the case on Monday, I can play Mono U Delver (which is going to be busted once Foil hits and probably eat a ban) or mess around for free in Arena, or maybe just put those Polluted Delta and Scalding Tarn to use finally in Legacy in Grixis Control, at least on MTGO its not more expensive than my car to buy some lands.
In the end, the fact others can play Tron, KCI, Hollow One, G-Affinity, Lantern, and anything in between and I cant play Twin? Utter garbage.
Also, all aggro decks can and should be playing around sweepers by not overextending; all Modern aggro has potent enough creatures to exert pressure without building massive Terminus-vulnerable boards.
That is a simple, yet effective way to do it. I've seen Elves slowly kill UW by constant beatdown of 1/1 and 2/2 elves.
Terminus decks are good decks but plenty of things scarier than them in Modern. I don't understand why terminus is a problem.
It's too hard to play around boardwipes. Since Modern's inception that you were free to just spam creatures to the board and turn them sideways. The only thing you had to worry about was just saving 1 mana for Path/Bolt to kill a Pestermite. Why would I want to worry about presenting a considerate clock to my opponent while saving resources in my hand?
Finally we get a Control deck, that makes the overall gaming experience more complete and funnier (in my understanding), and everyone is hating it. They just prefer to do their own degenerate thing while the opponent does the same. In the end, the lucky one will win. We could just call that format flipping coins!
You talk as if topdecking a Terminus when you're dead on board requires any amount of skill.
If they make even more powerful cards just to sell the game we all need to stop playing and move on to greener pastures. If someone wants to see what that looks like they can just go look at YuGiOh and how that worked out.
They need to create new ways to play the game to enable a lot of the cards at this point. Pauper took off because of the fact it is by nature cheaper than modern and legacy, while still offering a unique take on the game that is far more basic in play. I also think that is a big motivator for why Wizards would try to push a format like frontier. The main reason they didn't support that format is, well, the same reason that they confirmed with brawl. Unless there is something already there to push the format, declaring support for it does nothing. Force of Will Co has this exact problem in their namesake card game because they burned the bridges with one of their sets, and now they are working day and night to claw their way back to glory.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
In a world of Faithless Looting Abusing Dredge and Hollow One Decks and Aether Vial Human and Spirit Decks...no other boardwipe is fast enough to make any difference at all. Sheesh if you have to wait to turn 4 to boardwipe in a creature light deck you be dead in this format or very near to it that late.
So then just make a 3 CMC board wipe that they have to tap out at Sorcery speed to cast. As I said, I've got no problem with Terminus, but if people seem hellbent on playing a one mana wrath while leaving shields up to counter / remove future threats, heavy creature decks should have a way to trump that.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Control has sucked for years in modern, now there's a viable archetype and people are mad.
As many posters have noted, there are plenty of ways to play around or defeat Terminus as a heavy creature deck. Humans can Mage it to prevent its casting or hold back creatures to Vial in later. Dredge can be conservative with Bloodghast recursion, or just win over it with Chill and Conflagrate. Bant Spirits has both Vial and Company to rebuild a board, plus Wanderer to counter it outright. Burn goes under Terminus on the first few turns with hastey critters, then just burns out the UW player. Hardened Scales has manlands to hide counters on in the turns leading up to a Terminus (obviously not in response). Also, all aggro decks can and should be playing around sweepers by not overextending; all Modern aggro has potent enough creatures to exert pressure without building massive Terminus-vulnerable boards.
Is Terminus itself unfair? Sure, I guess. It's unfair in the sense that it cheats on mana. Is every top-tier Modern deck or even top-tier Legacy deck using "unfair" cards that cheat on mana? Absolutely. Does their presence make the decks using such cards also unfair? Nope. Fair decks can and should use unfair cards. That's not a Modern bug. That's a non-rotating format feature.
EDIT: I will also add that there is no metagame data whatsoever that suggests Terminus is particularly unfair in a way that makes UWx decks too good or aggro decks non-viable. Aggro is a defining pillar of Modern right now: all of the decks I mentioned above are indisputable top-tier, viable strategies. Meanwhile, UW Control remains strong, but we saw UW Control fall apart at GP ATL despite a strong Day 2 showing. Its T32 presence showcased significant holes in the strategy. MTGO also shows that UW is just one of many viable options, just as it shows aggro remains a format pillar. All of this further undermines the notion that there is anything particularly unfair about Terminus and its effect on either control or aggro.
If people have trouble against Control or don't understand what Control is actually about they should watch or play Standard more. Maybe it will be clearer then. Seriously just watch the coverage of GP Milwaukee that was last weekend. Adrian Sullivan won it with his Jeskai Control deck and he won the finals 2-0 against Brian Lynn and his Golgari Midrange deck. That deck packed 4 Carnage Tyrant and that still wasn't enough because on a strategic level it's still inherently disadvantaged. It has no answer to and can't keep up with the value Expansion // Explosion and Niv-Mizzet, Parun generate and Star of Extinction blows up a land and wipes every nonland permanent from the midrange player and again there is nothing he can do about it besides winning before that happens.
Ever heard about Rock,Paper, Scissors? Because that's what it's all about and I can only mirror the sentiment that Im happy that that is finally true for Modern too. There is always a Control deck in Standard and Legacy obviously has the deck that is named after the thing that people complain about here in Miracles and also a few others. Modern for a long time didn't have one. Sure UW/x decks with most of them in the form of Jeskai have always been kinda around but they never quite managed to cement themselves.
And lastly you should be careful what you wish for. Im sure people would cry even more about a 3 CMC sweeper like for example Toxic Deluge. Because then not only would Control wipe your board but also all Midrange decks would clean up your dorky creatures while their generally bigger ones would survive. At the end of the day it would the same thing as it would be against Control just that the game would be over faster.
That is a simple, yet effective way to do it. I've seen Elves slowly kill UW by constant beatdown of 1/1 and 2/2 elves.
Terminus decks are good decks but plenty of things scarier than them in Modern. I don't understand why terminus is a problem.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Honestly, without Bloodghast, Grave-Troll and Dread Return would probably both be fine to bring back. Not that this would ever happen, although Dread Return would be a fun card to play around in a reanimator strategy alongside Lingering Souls.
Because people dont like it when what they want to do is stopped. They would rather lose in a goldfish game, than have someone say 'no'. Its a psychology thing.
Spirits
Spirits
when the format becomes increasingly about low probability nut draws just ending games before they begin, the only recourse is to have something like that of your own.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Exactly. I had a guy yesterday, game 3 he was on hollow one, I'm on Arclight, dump out 2 Hollow Ones on his Turn 1 (my Turn 0) and sigh.
Me: 'Whats up, thats a great start'
Him: 'Yeah I'm just tired of this deck'
Me: 'Why, thats what its meant to do'
Him: 'Yeah, but I dont feel I won because I did anything well, it just plays itself.'
Obviously that game was a win for him, the only chance I would have had, would be to be on UW, and Miracle them away on Turn 2 or 3.
Thats why come Monday, if I dont get Twin back, I'm outta here till the next unban, or next set. Format is painful to play right now.
EDIT: Oh, and Game 1 I lost to a blind Burning Inquiring, that took 3 of my lands, and left me on a single Red for 4 turns!
Spirits
some number of games they just win before turn 4 even comes around. none is breaking the 'turn 4 rule', but added together its a noticeable shift in the overall experience.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)My proposed rule change to fix a lot of these issues was "no spells may be cast on the first turn of the game", which would at least allow interaction against turn 1 Hollow One(s) whether it be Thoughtseize/Spell Pierce/ect, regardless if you were on the play or draw.
Assuming wizards has no intention of implementing any rules change such as this one, even though I believe it would do wonders, their best bet would be a well-placed ban of either Bloodghast or Faithless Looting to reduce the overall power level and consistency of decks such Dredge, Bridge-vine, and Hollow One and knock them to the fringes of the format where many I am sure would be glad to see them.
It would not make sense to ban either Burning Inquiry or Hollow One themselves because those two cards only see play in that one archetype, one that is not currently taking up too much of a meta share. As bad as Burning Inquiry can be, it would not be an issue if the rest of the deck was inconsistent and thus not worth playing as a serious meta choice.
Bloodghast might be the better hit though, as it doesn't hurt Mardu Pyromancer or the new Phoenix decks but hits Hollow One and, more importantly, dredge.
http://modernnexus.com/green-suns-zenith-tests-intangibles-conclusion/
He did some testing, shown in other modernnexus articles, and came to the conclusion that Green Sun's Zenith is "not safe" in Modern. I'm not sure where he actually gave specific examples of why it's not safe, but that was his conclusion after testing.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Spirits
Yep. He said it was "broken," but didn't really give a reason why it's "broken."
I know there are other unbans that should be talked about first, but I'm kind of giving some a pass because many people already agree on those. As for Green Sun's Zenith, there's still fear. The one that gets me the most is "Oh, Green Sun's Zenith for Dryad Arbor" as if that beats Humans, KCI, UW RIP Control, or Dredge.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)And the only reason why UW went to playing Terminus was because of the busted stuff people were doing with reduced casting costs and graveyard recursion. You say, "If they have Terminus, I should have something they can't answer," but in reality Terminus is in response to things like Hollow One, Bridgevine, Dredge, and other decks that can swarm the board on turns 1 or 2 and have threats that don't really care about going to the graveyard. Terminus is the only reason why blue control was able to survive in a meta with those decks, so you're looking at things completely backwards if you think Terminus is the problem here.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Terminus is as noted, a symptom of how Modern has forced even fair decks, to play unhealthy cards. One needs only look at how warped UWR decks became, with Terminus main deck, and Field of Ruin, to try and compete, to see the lengths people will go to in trying to keep up with the degenerate format.
In the end, i'm living by wrapters post now.
Do Answers Line up with Threats? No? Play Linear.
Do Answers Line up with Threats? Yes? No, but I play Control so I'm going to play Control anyway.
Modern's answers are not sufficient, another line is, there are answers for everything, but your deck cannot answer everything.
Thats Modern.
Spirits
I don't disagree, amd also don't think this is bad. Your observation is often shared by others as a negative one that highlights a unique Modern problem. By contrast, I view it as a feature of the format that contributes to its popularity and valued diversity. If such a deck existed, it would be THE deck to play, especially by pros. This is not a particularly fun format vision for me and, I believe, for many other players who enjoy Magic's most popular format.
If thats not the case on Monday, I can play Mono U Delver (which is going to be busted once Foil hits and probably eat a ban) or mess around for free in Arena, or maybe just put those Polluted Delta and Scalding Tarn to use finally in Legacy in Grixis Control, at least on MTGO its not more expensive than my car to buy some lands.
In the end, the fact others can play Tron, KCI, Hollow One, G-Affinity, Lantern, and anything in between and I cant play Twin? Utter garbage.
Spirits
You talk as if topdecking a Terminus when you're dead on board requires any amount of skill.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!