Personally, I love Hollow One. Lots of avenues of attack, fun combos to play with while putting down solid clocks, and a good amount of interaction and reach. Been playing it for a year now, and I've "cheated" an opponent into a non-game with Inquiry maybe twice in that time. The majority of the time, it acts as a discard spell of sorts that might give me a crazy fast start.
At the same time, I've had people shut me down with interaction PLENTY of times, despite having crazy fast starts, so I always feel like the hate for Hollow One is misplaced.
I agree with you that the hate is misplaced. I've always found it a poor deck, I certainly have beat it more often than I have lost to it.
Remand, Spell Snare, Abrade, Snaps, Bolts, Anger for the recursive threats...thats a wrap. The hate for it comes from the RNG elements. It feels bad for a Burning Inquiry or Goblin Lore, to 'puke out' 2 or 3 threats.
It's even better when they beat you 0-2 due to both games starting off with turn 1 Inquiry ruining your hand into unplayable trash while they flood the board and pull cards out of their yard.
Thats only happened to me actually once. I'm not sure on how many games I've faced it, but more often its them playing that cycle buffed card, pumping it, and me bolting it, or remanding their enablers, or things like that.
They are not off. You have counted a pre-Pod and pre-TC/DTT ban GP in the dataset. I am deliberately excluding that event because it was a radically different format. I am only looking at the numbers after three cards got banned. It's possible you just forgot about that ban timetable when including this event. But I am comfortable saying that anyone who deliberately includes GP Omaha in a 2015 GP/PT dataset to try and prove a point about Twin is intentionally or unintentionally disingenuous. This was a COMPLETELY different format.
And the meta for GP Pittsburgh was completely warped by Amulet Bloom. Twin only did so well in that tournament because it was one of the few decks that could beat Bloom. So if you're cherry picking and not including GP Omaha, you shouldn't include GP Pittsburgh either.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
They are not off. You have counted a pre-Pod and pre-TC/DTT ban GP in the dataset. I am deliberately excluding that event because it was a radically different format. I am only looking at the numbers after three cards got banned. It's possible you just forgot about that ban timetable when including this event. But I am comfortable saying that anyone who deliberately includes GP Omaha in a 2015 GP/PT dataset to try and prove a point about Twin is intentionally or unintentionally disingenuous. This was a COMPLETELY different format.
And the meta for GP Pittsburgh was completely warped by Amulet Bloom. Twin only did so well in that tournament because it was one of the few decks that could beat Bloom. So if you're cherry picking and not including GP Omaha, you shouldn't include GP Pittsburgh either.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
They are not off. You have counted a pre-Pod and pre-TC/DTT ban GP in the dataset. I am deliberately excluding that event because it was a radically different format. I am only looking at the numbers after three cards got banned. It's possible you just forgot about that ban timetable when including this event. But I am comfortable saying that anyone who deliberately includes GP Omaha in a 2015 GP/PT dataset to try and prove a point about Twin is intentionally or unintentionally disingenuous. This was a COMPLETELY different format.
And the meta for GP Pittsburgh was completely warped by Amulet Bloom. Twin only did so well in that tournament because it was one of the few decks that could beat Bloom. So if you're cherry picking and not including GP Omaha, you shouldn't include GP Pittsburgh either.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Here is an update to the 2015/2018 PT/GP T8 stats. I was in a rush last night and made some errors on the spreadsheet, e.g. D&T in the 2015 dataset and Death and Taxes in the 2018 dataset. These data-entry errors resulted in some inaccurate numbers. I've cleaned it up and am presenting again.
2015 events include all GP/PT after GP Omaha. GP Omaha happened while Pod/TC/DTT were legal and represents an entirely different era of Modern. The banning of those cards fundamentally removed options from the format, thereby reshaping what could be played. 2018 events include everything since PT RIX. This includes some pre-BBE/JTMS unbans because unbans do not forcibly remove players from decks and reshape the format in the same way as a ban does. We also want to compare current 2018 diversity to previous Twin era diversity, which requires an annual snapshot.
Here are the stats, plus some new numbers people were curious about:
2015 GP/PT T8 stats Unique decks in T8s: 28 (including 4 variants of Twin) Unique decks in T8s grouping Twin: 25 (4 variants become URx Twin) Decks that had T8s in 2018: 11 Decks that did not have T8s in 2018: 17 Non-Twin decks that did not have T8s in 2018: 13 Non-Twin blue decks in T8s: 4 Twin decks in T8s: 4
2018 GP/PT T8 stats Unique decks in T8s: 25 Decks that had T8s in 2015: 11 Decks that did not have T8s in 2015: 14 Non-Twin blue decks in T8s: 5
Interestingly, even the updated analysis paints the same picture, so I'm glad it wasn't too different. Here are the takeaways:
1. From 2015 to 2018, the total number of unique decks decreased from 28 to 25. If we group URx Twin as a macro archetype, the unique decks stayed the same from 25 to 25.
2. 14 new decks have been added to the 2018 data that did not appear in the 2015 data. Meanwhile, 17 decks did not appear from 2015 into 2018 (14 if we remove the banned URx Twin decks as a whole)
3. Total blue diversity decreased from 8 unique decks in 2015 to 5 unique decks in 2018.
4. Total non-Twin blue diversity increased from 4 unique decks to 5 unique decks in 2018.
Based solely on GP/PT T8 data, the Twin ban does not appear to have accomplished either goal. Total diversity is identical if we group URx Twin and declined if we split URx Twin. Total blue diversity decreased overall, and there's only +1 non-Twin blue deck in 2018 vs. 2015.
This analysis would need to be repeated with MTGO data to make a definitive statement on the Twin ban's effectiveness. But judging by the GP/PT numbers alone, I'm calling it ineffective three years later at accomplishing either of its stated goals.
They are not off. You have counted a pre-Pod and pre-TC/DTT ban GP in the dataset. I am deliberately excluding that event because it was a radically different format. I am only looking at the numbers after three cards got banned. It's possible you just forgot about that ban timetable when including this event. But I am comfortable saying that anyone who deliberately includes GP Omaha in a 2015 GP/PT dataset to try and prove a point about Twin is intentionally or unintentionally disingenuous. This was a COMPLETELY different format.
And the meta for GP Pittsburgh was completely warped by Amulet Bloom. Twin only did so well in that tournament because it was one of the few decks that could beat Bloom. So if you're cherry picking and not including GP Omaha, you shouldn't include GP Pittsburgh either.
This is silly and we both know it. Three cards getting banned sets a fundamentally different format. A metagame shift that happens during a period of no unbans/bans is completely different. Bloom only made up 5.5% of the Day 2 to begin with, so it wasn't even as dominant as you are claiming. Most of your posts are pretty reasonable, but this idea that we should exclude a certain GP during a year of no bans/unbans by the same rationale that we exclude a GP prior to a triple card ban is ridiculous. It's particularly ridiculous because Wizards literally talks about GP Pitt in their B&R update, so if we want to analyze the same format that Wizards was analyzing, we should be looking at the same datapoints. This means including the GP that they literally cited in the B&R article.
I get that people want to defend Twin but posts like this are frustrating. There are ways to defend Twin without making these kinds of arguments.
My issue with Modern right now is that most of the match ups are "Race me or lose". Most removal is irrelevant right now because the creatures used have recursion stapled to them and the ones that don't dodge Push and Bolt or you're playing Humans. KCI is tough to nail down in the hands of a good player as well, so the long game against combo is fairly pointless; it's too easy to hide behind and recur Defense Grid until your opponent can't stop you or plow over hate with EE.
Humans is probably the deck I have the least problem with, but I also don't see it very often. Freebooters into Meddling Mages are pretty bonkers good though and it locks you out of a game much faster than even good control decks can do all while presenting a clock.
Overall, I strongly dislike "race me or lose" with no real meaningful way to interact. I could certainly cater to those decks and bring more Abrade, have 4 Leyline of the Void in my board, stock up on things that beat those decks specifically, but a good deck that does not make- UW seems to be the exception because they have all the tuck and exile affects on reasonably costed cards so they can survive into the longer parts of the game without spending 3 kills spells on one Bloodghast because I didn't "mull to hate".
I get that people want to defend Twin but posts like this are frustrating. There are ways to defend Twin without making these kinds of arguments.
Honestly your analysis is all the defense required.
The deck was banned in 'the interest of competitive diversity' and that has been proven to be a non-factor.
That ban was a failure. Revert it.
One would still need to assess MTGO and see if deck diversity increased/decreased/stayed the same there. I do agree that the GP/PT T8 picture is decisive for paper, however.
I think even with MTGO data, it would be tough. We go from GDS to Mardu, to Tron, to Hollow One, to UW, to BridgeVine all as 'the boogyman' within what, 6-8 Months?
Its incredibly diverse, as people just to the new thing over and over.
I don't thing tons of people are gravitating to "The New Thing" every time one comes along; Modern is an expensive format, so I'm sure a lot of it is newer players getting into Modern and just buying into those newer decks. A lot of older players just don't have the capital to switch around, which is why Modern always has such a diverse set of decks in every tournament.
I don't thing tons of people are gravitating to "The New Thing" every time one comes along; Modern is an expensive format, so I'm sure a lot of it is newer players getting into Modern and just buying into those newer decks. A lot of older players just don't have the capital to switch around, which is why Modern always has such a diverse set of decks in every tournament.
Nothing has changed except there was, until Teferi/Search/Field of Ruin, more aggro going on. This is not me making things up. This is reality.
The most tilting part of this whole discussion, is Amulet Titan is still a thing. Eldrzi decks are still a thing. Dredge, is still a thing, and Storm obviously, is still a thing.
Only Twin had to go up on the cross.
Free Twin, Ban Exarch, force the deck into RUG Twin with Bounding Krasis and Pestermite as the creatures.
THAT would be a fair nerf to Twin, and unlike the 'nuke from Orbit' that it took instead.
Oh, the eldrazi are another group who survived the ban. They still compete as Eldrazi Tron, Colorless Eldrazi Aggro etc.. And RG Eldrazi seems to be still a thing right now. It's just like in the story... eldrazi are hard to get rid of. -- just kidding
Now a little bit more seriously, -- banning exarch could be a reasonable thing to unban twin. Although I would prefer for pestermite to be banned too, to lessen the flash creatures that get cast at end of turn.
Nothing has changed except there was, until Teferi/Search/Field of Ruin, more aggro going on. This is not me making things up. This is reality.
The most tilting part of this whole discussion, is Amulet Titan is still a thing. Eldrzi decks are still a thing. Dredge, is still a thing, and Storm obviously, is still a thing.
Only Twin had to go up on the cross.
Free Twin, Ban Exarch, force the deck into RUG Twin with Bounding Krasis and Pestermite as the creatures.
THAT would be a fair nerf to Twin, and unlike the 'nuke from Orbit' that it took instead.
Oh, the eldrazi are another group who survived the ban. They still compete as Eldrazi Tron, Colorless Eldrazi Aggro etc.. And RG Eldrazi seems to be still a thing right now. It's just like in the story... eldrazi are hard to get rid of. -- just kidding
Now a little bit more seriously, -- banning exarch could be a reasonable thing to unban twin. Although I would prefer for pestermite to be banned too, to lessen the flash creatures that get cast at end of turn.
Sorry for double post. Something seems to be wrong with the forum. I get an error page when posting.
The mods know about it. There is a bad node issue with the site so if the traffic goes through a certain route to the site, you'll get application errors. They are working on fixing it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Oh wow, yeah that wasn't the bad node error. I have no idea what that was. It's like the entire page threw up on my screen and I can't even edit my old post.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't think that modern is perfect. The format feels like it needs certain cards to help police the decks and make games more fun to play like Toxic Deluge to deal with creature go wide strategies, some kind of Stifle effect to stop troublesome ETB / planeswalker ults, probably Force of Will to help waylay any issues people have with combo, and possibly Back to basics. I think a fixed Stifle that only hits creatures would be good enough in modern thanks to Reflector Mage, Restoration Angel, Spell Queller, and similar cards existing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Toxic Deluge would be ok, stifle, I dont know if its even good enough against the field is it? I mean Squelch isnt played.
Back to Basics, I would be fine with, but GL getting that printed. FoW...would make Delver a real thing.
Stifle 1 mana vs Squelch 2 mana. There is huge difference. If opponent starts with fetch pass or island and you get into situation where you can't really fetch or it could be LD
That’s why they said a fixed stifle that can’t hit lands.
Oh wow, yeah that wasn't the bad node error. I have no idea what that was. It's like the entire page threw up on my screen and I can't even edit my old post.
It's a scary error I have not seen before. Purple and green letters all over the screen. Would report about it at tech support section of this forum if it keeps happening. Can't edit or delete old posts, and the shortcuts menu is also gone for me.
______________________________________________
In reply to your other post.
For Stifle effect in modern.. I think we already have Trickbind. Or perhaps we need the real Stifle that cost only one mana? As for Force of Will.. the best thing WoTC would allow in this form at is Disrupting Shoal... the card was used for sometime by a deck called Monkey Grow. Although, I also remember they stopped using shoal because Gitaxian Probe got banned.
The problem with Stifle is that it hits all permanents, which is why WoTC has never printed it again in a standard set since Scourge. Against fetch heavy decks it can be used to deny fetchlands (which probably isn't a bad thing since there isn't a downside right now to using the fetchland over a regular mana producing land), but the bigger issue is it can stop an ult from a planeswalker. WoTC is very big on their walkers and doesn't want stuff to just stop the "new cool" from working. It's another one of those bad feel situations that can happen.
Trickbind is too expensive for the decks that would want to run it. We're talking tempo strategies, which sometimes need to be able to play two spells on the opponents turn on a fairly low resource count. A common misconception people who don't normally play tempo have is that it's better to run something like Boomerang over Unsummon due to it having the ability to bounce any target. In more recent years, that argument has now become Blink of an Eye vs Unsummon.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm sure stifle might see some play, but mostly for the pseudo land destruction. Probably not really a net gain for the format though. Delver-esque strategies still wouldnt have a critical mass of spells/effects to capitalize on mana denial, and you just introduce more (arguably) crappy gameplay with more incidental stone rains running around.
Force of Will is something I can get behind for modern. Its questionable how much it would see play, and as pointed out, its would merely act as an outlet against more of the degenerate play patterns. I'm not going to hold my breath though. Back to basics would just be stupid.
pleasantly surprised at 2 modern events this weekend.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
It's even better when they beat you 0-2 due to both games starting off with turn 1 Inquiry ruining your hand into unplayable trash while they flood the board and pull cards out of their yard.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Spirits
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
2015 events include all GP/PT after GP Omaha. GP Omaha happened while Pod/TC/DTT were legal and represents an entirely different era of Modern. The banning of those cards fundamentally removed options from the format, thereby reshaping what could be played. 2018 events include everything since PT RIX. This includes some pre-BBE/JTMS unbans because unbans do not forcibly remove players from decks and reshape the format in the same way as a ban does. We also want to compare current 2018 diversity to previous Twin era diversity, which requires an annual snapshot.
Here are the stats, plus some new numbers people were curious about:
2015 GP/PT T8 stats
Unique decks in T8s: 28 (including 4 variants of Twin)
Unique decks in T8s grouping Twin: 25 (4 variants become URx Twin)
Decks that had T8s in 2018: 11
Decks that did not have T8s in 2018: 17
Non-Twin decks that did not have T8s in 2018: 13
Non-Twin blue decks in T8s: 4
Twin decks in T8s: 4
2018 GP/PT T8 stats
Unique decks in T8s: 25
Decks that had T8s in 2015: 11
Decks that did not have T8s in 2015: 14
Non-Twin blue decks in T8s: 5
Interestingly, even the updated analysis paints the same picture, so I'm glad it wasn't too different. Here are the takeaways:
1. From 2015 to 2018, the total number of unique decks decreased from 28 to 25. If we group URx Twin as a macro archetype, the unique decks stayed the same from 25 to 25.
2. 14 new decks have been added to the 2018 data that did not appear in the 2015 data. Meanwhile, 17 decks did not appear from 2015 into 2018 (14 if we remove the banned URx Twin decks as a whole)
3. Total blue diversity decreased from 8 unique decks in 2015 to 5 unique decks in 2018.
4. Total non-Twin blue diversity increased from 4 unique decks to 5 unique decks in 2018.
Based solely on GP/PT T8 data, the Twin ban does not appear to have accomplished either goal. Total diversity is identical if we group URx Twin and declined if we split URx Twin. Total blue diversity decreased overall, and there's only +1 non-Twin blue deck in 2018 vs. 2015.
This analysis would need to be repeated with MTGO data to make a definitive statement on the Twin ban's effectiveness. But judging by the GP/PT numbers alone, I'm calling it ineffective three years later at accomplishing either of its stated goals.
This is silly and we both know it. Three cards getting banned sets a fundamentally different format. A metagame shift that happens during a period of no unbans/bans is completely different. Bloom only made up 5.5% of the Day 2 to begin with, so it wasn't even as dominant as you are claiming. Most of your posts are pretty reasonable, but this idea that we should exclude a certain GP during a year of no bans/unbans by the same rationale that we exclude a GP prior to a triple card ban is ridiculous. It's particularly ridiculous because Wizards literally talks about GP Pitt in their B&R update, so if we want to analyze the same format that Wizards was analyzing, we should be looking at the same datapoints. This means including the GP that they literally cited in the B&R article.
I get that people want to defend Twin but posts like this are frustrating. There are ways to defend Twin without making these kinds of arguments.
Humans is probably the deck I have the least problem with, but I also don't see it very often. Freebooters into Meddling Mages are pretty bonkers good though and it locks you out of a game much faster than even good control decks can do all while presenting a clock.
Overall, I strongly dislike "race me or lose" with no real meaningful way to interact. I could certainly cater to those decks and bring more Abrade, have 4 Leyline of the Void in my board, stock up on things that beat those decks specifically, but a good deck that does not make- UW seems to be the exception because they have all the tuck and exile affects on reasonably costed cards so they can survive into the longer parts of the game without spending 3 kills spells on one Bloodghast because I didn't "mull to hate".
"Reveal a Dragon"
Honestly your analysis is all the defense required.
The deck was banned in 'the interest of competitive diversity' and that has been proven to be a non-factor.
That ban was a failure. Revert it.
Spirits
One would still need to assess MTGO and see if deck diversity increased/decreased/stayed the same there. I do agree that the GP/PT T8 picture is decisive for paper, however.
Its incredibly diverse, as people just to the new thing over and over.
Spirits
On MTGO? They absolutely do.
Spirits
Oh, the eldrazi are another group who survived the ban. They still compete as Eldrazi Tron, Colorless Eldrazi Aggro etc.. And RG Eldrazi seems to be still a thing right now. It's just like in the story... eldrazi are hard to get rid of. -- just kidding
Now a little bit more seriously, -- banning exarch could be a reasonable thing to unban twin. Although I would prefer for pestermite to be banned too, to lessen the flash creatures that get cast at end of turn.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Oh, the eldrazi are another group who survived the ban. They still compete as Eldrazi Tron, Colorless Eldrazi Aggro etc.. And RG Eldrazi seems to be still a thing right now. It's just like in the story... eldrazi are hard to get rid of. -- just kidding
Now a little bit more seriously, -- banning exarch could be a reasonable thing to unban twin. Although I would prefer for pestermite to be banned too, to lessen the flash creatures that get cast at end of turn.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
The mods know about it. There is a bad node issue with the site so if the traffic goes through a certain route to the site, you'll get application errors. They are working on fixing it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't think that modern is perfect. The format feels like it needs certain cards to help police the decks and make games more fun to play like Toxic Deluge to deal with creature go wide strategies, some kind of Stifle effect to stop troublesome ETB / planeswalker ults, probably Force of Will to help waylay any issues people have with combo, and possibly Back to basics. I think a fixed Stifle that only hits creatures would be good enough in modern thanks to Reflector Mage, Restoration Angel, Spell Queller, and similar cards existing.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Back to Basics, I would be fine with, but GL getting that printed. FoW...would make Delver a real thing.
Spirits
That’s why they said a fixed stifle that can’t hit lands.
It's a scary error I have not seen before. Purple and green letters all over the screen. Would report about it at tech support section of this forum if it keeps happening. Can't edit or delete old posts, and the shortcuts menu is also gone for me.
______________________________________________
In reply to your other post.
For Stifle effect in modern.. I think we already have Trickbind. Or perhaps we need the real Stifle that cost only one mana? As for Force of Will.. the best thing WoTC would allow in this form at is Disrupting Shoal... the card was used for sometime by a deck called Monkey Grow. Although, I also remember they stopped using shoal because Gitaxian Probe got banned.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Trickbind is too expensive for the decks that would want to run it. We're talking tempo strategies, which sometimes need to be able to play two spells on the opponents turn on a fairly low resource count. A common misconception people who don't normally play tempo have is that it's better to run something like Boomerang over Unsummon due to it having the ability to bounce any target. In more recent years, that argument has now become Blink of an Eye vs Unsummon.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Force of Will is something I can get behind for modern. Its questionable how much it would see play, and as pointed out, its would merely act as an outlet against more of the degenerate play patterns. I'm not going to hold my breath though. Back to basics would just be stupid.
pleasantly surprised at 2 modern events this weekend.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Spirits