What I'm trying to say is that trying to serve two masters risks pleasing neither
i'd agree with what you're saying, except there was a recent fairly extensive interview with Gavin Verhey (the 'architect' of many MTG products) and he specifically said that with the removal of Masters sets, they'll be ramping up Modern reprints in ancillary products as their main avenue of servicing the format.
he also noted emphatically that the recent iteration of Commander precons didn't sit well with consumers because of the lack of meaningful reprints, so he said they were going to increase the inclusion of meaningful reprints in commander products.
both these things said in the same interview, and you get a pretty clear picture. It's more likely now that we'll have some decent Modern reprints in these ancillary products than ever before. fetchlands? sure, why not.
(oh and WotC keeps reminding us that it apparently "doesn't consider the secondary market value of cards" when creating products... I guess with their recent challenger decks they have shown to us that they are actually willing to put their methods into practice by including multiple valuable cards in an affordable package. They may continue this widely appreciated attitude with upcoming Commander decks)
In the same interview you're referencing, Gavin specifically stated that fetchlands aren't a good fit for the Commander preconstructed decks. Other ancillary products, sure, because we need them and there's money to be had, but not Commander products.
In TCC's interview with Gavin Verhey today, the question came up about designing and inserting Modern cards in supplemental products bypassing Standard; apparently it's something we shouldn't expect in the near future. Nice to get a confirmation one way or the other, at least. Maybe the poll didn't go so well?
We at least know that they are warm enough to the idea to ask about it, so it's a bit disappointing to know nothing like this is coming soon. On the other hand, if we do get such a set, it's nice to know they don't want to rush it either.
The term "near future" has had an incredibly squishy meaning from WotC. They often backtrack and change their minds, or use the term to play a game of misdirection.
I'm not saying we'll get non-Standard Modern cards any time soon (or at all). But let's consider the source.
I'm quoting this now for relevancy. If you watch that TCC interview with Gavin Verhey (skip to 48:18), his phrasing regarding direct-to-Modern cards is reflective of the effort and considerations to make such a set correctly. I initially inferred from that a sense of reservation, but Gavin is a very good communicator; note earlier in the interview how effortlessly he dances around directly mentioning monetary value when addressing secondary market concerns of aggressive reprints. We know, of course, that he won't directly acknowledge the secondary market's financial value as an influence, but it's how smoothly he was able to address very real concerns while avoiding this that made me take notice on a rewatch.
Now watch the relevant section at 48:18 again, and pay attention to what he says, how he says it, and even the look on his face as he begins to answer that question. It feels more to me as if he's describing something familiar than imagined, if that makes sense. I think he did a good job of sowing just enough apprehension to give us a reason to doubt this is around the corner. Of course, my own biases are probably playing into this, so go study it and see what you think.
The point is, with Blake's hint during the Prof's Fact or Fiction for a Modern-relevant product announcement by the end of this month, as well as these posts from MaRo about how said product will "impact" Modern and how he will be floored if we don't love it...I'd be amazed if it's not the new-to-Modern supplemental set (with enemy fetchlands for good measure). If it is, well, good job Gavin for throwing us off a bit
yeah when i watched the interview myself i immediately noticed how it was just a statement of reality. its a tricky set to make and requires serious design and testing time. you can assume that this difficulty has kept it off the table, or that its something for the distant future. however its just that, an assumption.
now its hard to assume that the product is anything but something that injects cards into modern that werent previously there. its now confirmed to be one of the Innovation Sets, of which were previously Conspiracy and Battlebond. if they arent designing new cards specifically for it, and are constrained to modern reprints; then how is it any different than a rebranding of modern masters.
the only explanation would be a cheap modern masters, and its 'impact' that people would like is how cheap some cards get.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
MaRo stated in a blog post over the weekend that the innovation product this year will impact Modern. Not sure what else we can infer from this other than a straight-to-Modern booster.
Sorry, linking things on mobile is tough. I'll see if I can figure out hyperlink syntax later.
given its wizards we are talking about here, im expecting just a set that is related to modern insomuch as it has value reprints.
even with this pretty low expectation, id still be disappointed if it turns out to be true. mostly because it means those statements by maro and blake were extremely misleading. in that initial 'fact/fiction' interview where the announcement was spoiled the topic was about modern players being worried and uncertain about their format of choice being relegated to irrelevancy in the face of arena and its upcoming nonrotating format. in that context card availability is irrelevant, we already know they are shifting the load from the masters sets onto ancillary products. dont try to prop it up as some show of support. reprint fetches? guess they must be supporting legacy too!
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I mean, if it has enemy fetches and only costs $4 instead of $10 or more per pack, it will be a hit no matter what else is in it, right?
As many have pointed out, though, it's hard to imagine an innovation product focusing primarily on desired reprints of existing cards at lower price points. What else innovative besides direct-to-format cards would really excite Modern players specifically?
yeah if they reprint fetches at rare, plus whatever juicy stuff, in 4 dollar packs it is going to sell like hotcakes. sell so well in fact, that id expect the product and whatever charms it holds as some cool and wacky way to play to be overlooked.
i agree its hard not to assume they arent printing direct-to-modern. however you have to note that at no point did they say it was designed specifically for modern. that is a leap you have to take with a bit of optimism. if you arent sure what im talking about its like battlebond and edh. battlebond was like weird 2hg shennanigans, but the product was partially aimed at edh. in that sense, it is the format getting the 'impact'.
as for what about it would be exciting or attractive, that is where the split in the camps happens. if you believe that high costing modern staples being reprinted in something NOT a premium costed set is sufficient to match their statements, then its a possibility. if you dont think so, then it isnt; making the only reasonable conclusion a non standard set being deemed modern legal.
as mentioned in my previous post, i dont think getting cheap fetches or whatever else counts. however im jaded enough to believe that wizards would believe it is. like somehow decks costing 700 instead of a 1000 is going to offset wizards possibly cutting back on modern tournaments, its relevancy in the mythic championship series, and instead pushing a new non-rotating format. im not saying that is going to happen, rather just pointing out how different those two things are.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Well color me surprised. Did not expect something like this until 2020. The development cycle must have began earlier than I thought, or it's accelerated.
Like many, I'm excited for the possibilities here. 250 new (to Modern) cards designed or chosen specifically for the format? Can't wait to see the full spoiler for this set.
Also like many, I'm blown away by no reprints of existing Modern cards in dire need of a supply injection; looks like they are banking at the novelty and equity of newer cards to drive the set sales (and they're probably right).
If I had to guess, my instinct is that another supplemental product will release in the Nov-Dec window that contains some number of choice reprints (but isn't an actual Masters set). Wizards knows that printing cards like the enemy fetches will make them money and players happy, plus they need to make up that end-of-year revenue occupied by Masters sets for the past two years.
Me...I'm just excited for old things and call-backs, and especially to not be envious of so many fun cards bypassing my favorite format for a change.
Like many, I'm excited for the possibilities here. 250 new (to Modern) cards designed or chosen specifically for the format? Can't wait to see the full spoiler for this set.
Also like many, I'm blown away by no reprints of existing Modern cards in dire need of a supply injection; looks like they are banking at the novelty and equity of newer cards to drive the set sales (and they're probably right).
If I had to guess, my instinct is that another supplemental product will release in the Nov-Dec window that contains some number of choice reprints (but isn't an actual Masters set). Wizards knows that printing cards like the enemy fetches will make them money and players happy, plus they need to make up that end-of-year revenue occupied by Masters sets for the past two years.
Me...I'm just excited for old things and call-backs, and especially to not be envious of so many fun cards bypassing my favorite format for a change.
Agree with all of this. I don't have the option to play modern anymore (time commitments, sigh), but watching the format evolve is going to be a ton of fun.
Private Mod Note
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Death to false Value.
GW
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Now watch the relevant section at 48:18 again, and pay attention to what he says, how he says it, and even the look on his face as he begins to answer that question. It feels more to me as if he's describing something familiar than imagined, if that makes sense. I think he did a good job of sowing just enough apprehension to give us a reason to doubt this is around the corner. Of course, my own biases are probably playing into this, so go study it and see what you think.
The point is, with Blake's hint during the Prof's Fact or Fiction for a Modern-relevant product announcement by the end of this month, as well as these posts from MaRo about how said product will "impact" Modern and how he will be floored if we don't love it...I'd be amazed if it's not the new-to-Modern supplemental set (with enemy fetchlands for good measure). If it is, well, good job Gavin for throwing us off a bit
now its hard to assume that the product is anything but something that injects cards into modern that werent previously there. its now confirmed to be one of the Innovation Sets, of which were previously Conspiracy and Battlebond. if they arent designing new cards specifically for it, and are constrained to modern reprints; then how is it any different than a rebranding of modern masters.
the only explanation would be a cheap modern masters, and its 'impact' that people would like is how cheap some cards get.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Sorry, linking things on mobile is tough. I'll see if I can figure out hyperlink syntax later.
Edit: Hopefully this works.
even with this pretty low expectation, id still be disappointed if it turns out to be true. mostly because it means those statements by maro and blake were extremely misleading. in that initial 'fact/fiction' interview where the announcement was spoiled the topic was about modern players being worried and uncertain about their format of choice being relegated to irrelevancy in the face of arena and its upcoming nonrotating format. in that context card availability is irrelevant, we already know they are shifting the load from the masters sets onto ancillary products. dont try to prop it up as some show of support. reprint fetches? guess they must be supporting legacy too!
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)As many have pointed out, though, it's hard to imagine an innovation product focusing primarily on desired reprints of existing cards at lower price points. What else innovative besides direct-to-format cards would really excite Modern players specifically?
i agree its hard not to assume they arent printing direct-to-modern. however you have to note that at no point did they say it was designed specifically for modern. that is a leap you have to take with a bit of optimism. if you arent sure what im talking about its like battlebond and edh. battlebond was like weird 2hg shennanigans, but the product was partially aimed at edh. in that sense, it is the format getting the 'impact'.
as for what about it would be exciting or attractive, that is where the split in the camps happens. if you believe that high costing modern staples being reprinted in something NOT a premium costed set is sufficient to match their statements, then its a possibility. if you dont think so, then it isnt; making the only reasonable conclusion a non standard set being deemed modern legal.
as mentioned in my previous post, i dont think getting cheap fetches or whatever else counts. however im jaded enough to believe that wizards would believe it is. like somehow decks costing 700 instead of a 1000 is going to offset wizards possibly cutting back on modern tournaments, its relevancy in the mythic championship series, and instead pushing a new non-rotating format. im not saying that is going to happen, rather just pointing out how different those two things are.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Like many, I'm excited for the possibilities here. 250 new (to Modern) cards designed or chosen specifically for the format? Can't wait to see the full spoiler for this set.
Also like many, I'm blown away by no reprints of existing Modern cards in dire need of a supply injection; looks like they are banking at the novelty and equity of newer cards to drive the set sales (and they're probably right).
If I had to guess, my instinct is that another supplemental product will release in the Nov-Dec window that contains some number of choice reprints (but isn't an actual Masters set). Wizards knows that printing cards like the enemy fetches will make them money and players happy, plus they need to make up that end-of-year revenue occupied by Masters sets for the past two years.
Me...I'm just excited for old things and call-backs, and especially to not be envious of so many fun cards bypassing my favorite format for a change.
Agree with all of this. I don't have the option to play modern anymore (time commitments, sigh), but watching the format evolve is going to be a ton of fun.