I don't accept that it's poorly designed at all. I've won several games with just Teferi/Jace. UW should already be keeping the board clear. Emblem + Jace = Scoop it up.
That it's a single card wincon is about what U Control has needed to not be tied to a Red Enchantment.
I just wish Teferi was mono blue instead of UW so Grixis and UR builds could be more viable.
Yeah I can see that, it's certainly pushed Grixis down. White is exile and tuck though so I can understand why he's got White.
I don't know, we know the answer for UR. You play Blue Moon, or wait. Grixis..I don't know what the draw is, but I've never liked playing with discards personally. That thread looks like its leaning towards the Blue Jund era again.
Teferi is powerful, and I'm glad blue got something like that (and white too, for that matter). But, that is one very poorly designed card. The ultimate is too slow to win, and the hidden win condition of tucking itself should never have existed.
That's really a problem with the players and not the card. Unless you're running something like hexproof creatures, when Teferi ults the game is just over. If a control player got a Teferi to its ultimate, they probably have the game locked down, and they're just going to stone rain you until you have no lands left. Players would probably dislike control a lot less if they were better at recognizing when they can't win the game anymore and should just pack it up.
Yeah I can see that, it's certainly pushed Grixis down. White is exile and tuck though so I can understand why he's got White.
I don't know, we know the answer for UR. You play Blue Moon, or wait. Grixis..I don't know what the draw is, but I've never liked playing with discards personally. That thread looks like its leaning towards the Blue Jund era again.
Grixis' problem has always been closing speed, so I don't think Teferi is what they need. Death's Shadow was what they needed, so the people still trying to make the slower Grixis shells work are honestly kidding themselves. There's also the fundamental flaw in that color combination that they can't deal with enchantments.
I don't think these kinds of facetious comments are super productive. Maybe you missed the whole conversation about KCI time issues, so I'll give the benefit of the doubt. The alleged problem with KCI is not going to time.
Well funny that. Let me quote YOU, which is the quote that was IN MY POST.
I could also see a very focused KCI ban like Trawler or the deck's namesake if Wizards has logistical data that shows KCI is making rounds go too long.
I don't think these kinds of facetious comments are super productive. Maybe you missed the whole conversation about KCI time issues, so I'll give the benefit of the doubt. The alleged problem with KCI is not going to time.
Well funny that. Let me quote YOU, which is the quote that was IN MY POST.
I could also see a very focused KCI ban like Trawler or the deck's namesake if Wizards has logistical data that shows KCI is making rounds go too long.
Maybe don't be condescending next time?
Again, the alleged problem is the manner in which KCI makes rounds go too long and how much time is added (like Eggs added time), not simply that KCI makes rounds go to time alone (many decks do that). I just figured we were all on the same page about this being the issue under discussion. Also, that we were on the same page about that manner in which KCI allegedly extended rounds, I.e. through individually long combo turns like Eggs. This prolongs rounds far longer than a deck like UW Control could do and we've talked about this before, hence "TOO" long in my quote and not simply going to time.
I think it's pretty clear that UW Control going to turns has nothing to do with alleged KCI logistical issues of individually long combo turns. Further, I just don't see how your comment of "we should ban UW control" advances the thread, especially when given in response to the very present issue of KCI logistics. Either it was made in bad faith to begin with OR it was just a misunderstanding about the core KCI issue. I assumed the latter, which is why I explained that core KCI issue in my reply.
I don't mean poorly designed as too strong. If anything I think it's too weak. I have no problems with a PW win condition. My only complaint about Teferi is that it doesn't win fast enough.
Good design in my opinion would encourage the player to quit because the game is over. When it ultimates, it's not obvious to everyone that the game has already been decided even though it has. JTMS does this well, Teferi does not.
Teferi is a good card, and a powerful card. I just think it's a bad design. Plenty of good and powerful cards are bad designs.
I don't mean poorly designed as too strong. If anything I think it's too weak. I have no problems with a PW win condition. My only complaint about Teferi is that it doesn't win fast enough.
Good design in my opinion would encourage the player to quit because the game is over. When it ultimates, it's not obvious to everyone that the game has already been decided even though it has. JTMS does this well, Teferi does not.
Teferi is a good card, and a powerful card. I just think it's a bad design. Plenty of good and powerful cards are bad designs.
Ah, my apologies then. I've been arguing in more than a few places with people who think he's actually too good, because god forbid someone lose to Control.
Okay, I'm curious. There are a few cards getting larger calls for unbans:
1. Twin
2. Stoneforge
3. Green Sun
4. Preordain
I get #4. I would like to ask, because I never played any format with any of these cards, how exactly modern as a format gets better with them. I'm not asking "what deck becomes good with card X." I'm asking how the format, overall, gets better. If it is just a guess, that's fine, I'm not asking for evidence. Theories as to why all of modern improves is plenty.
Okay, I'm curious. There are a few cards getting larger calls for unbans:
1. Twin
2. Stoneforge
3. Green Sun
4. Preordain
I get #4. I would like to ask, because I never played any format with any of these cards, how exactly modern as a format gets better with them. I'm not asking "what deck becomes good with card X." I'm asking how the format, overall, gets better. If it is just a guess, that's fine, I'm not asking for evidence. Theories as to why all of modern improves is plenty.
Here are some, not all, of the theories for each card. Note that I do not necessarily agree with these theories. I'm just presenting them.
1. Twin: Forces decks to interact because if you don't then Twin disrupts your T2/T3 combo and then wins itself on T4. Slows down the format.
2. SFM: Blunts aggro decks and gives slower decks a bridge to the mid-game and late-game. Slows down the format. Makes white a more desirable color in the format.
3. GSZ: Improves green creature-based toolbox decks, which are largely underplayed right now.
4. Preordan: Gives blue decks the same access to consistency boosting cantrips as Stirrings/Looting decks. Improves access to specific answers in matchups that depend on answers.
Of course, there are also arguments against all of these theories, but that's at least a breakdown of where some unban proponents are coming from.
Yes. The theory on Twin is it forces decks that currently don't care what you are doing, to respect the fact that disruption exists AND if they tap out in the interest of doing as fast as possible, they may just lose once their opponent untapped.
It would also create breathing space for BGx, and give Control something to target.
Unleashing Twin, would have a large slowing impact on the format.
Twin would add a lot more interaction to the format. At FNM last night I played Affinity, my opponents were Hollow One, Merfolk, Vizier combo, Elves, and Wizards. For the most part each side just ignored the other and did their thing.
Look, I'm more than willing to admit that Twin would force the interaction back in the metagame. There is almost no denying it if you are familiar with play patterns from back then till now. The problem is, I feel it has a sense of being degenerate in the way it forces that level of interaction. Instead of two ships passing in the night, Twin is the Titanic colliding with the Ice Berg. That's a completely different set of problems Modern would then need to deal with. Which is most likely why the metagame back then were simply 5 or so tier 1 decks, because nothing else would compete, and rogue strategies would need to get lucky and slice out the pie with pairings and dice rolls.
After years of playing this format, I personally view Splinter Twin as the Fence Post for the Modern banned list, you have to be at least that problematic to join the rest of the crew to only see daylight in No Banned List Modern.
I think people are worried, because Humans is EXACTLY what Wizards wants to print. Creatures with value or spells attached, and people play Modern so that they can experience and play things that are different than that.
Humans will continue to get cards, near every set.
I think that's the problem wizards is now seeing since I doubt they really expected legacy to keep surviving with modern moving forward. The idea was to get away from the RL, but provide a non-rotating format for people who are long time fans of the game to enjoy. I'm really hoping they swap to a partial reprint product for modern and introduce new cards for the format that way instead of through simply standard. I'm worming my way into legacy now instead of modern because of the fact it has more effective non-creature interactions.
Amen to that.
I think Modern is a fun format from some perspectives- so many off beat strategies bring a smile to my face - but creatures rather than the stack is where most games are decided. At the very highest tables there are basically Humans, Tron, random graveyard abusing explosive deck d or (hollow one, bridgevine, whatever you call them- the same inconsistent but explosive critter decks), KCI, and UW control and its ilk.
Now over a five round event you can pilot a lesser deck to the top by hitting the right matches, but over a bigger event those decks will rise.
Feel free to skip the next bit where I talk about what I run and what it loses to. The TL:DR is always the same- I can have a deck with a fantastic record against one or two of those decks, nigh on unbeatable, and will have a nigh on unwinnable match in another two, but the bottom line is to get a deck into the top echelons needs cards capable of turning round 10/90 matches. We got stuck at a point in time where any new power comes basically from new critters and even when new answers/hosers are printed they don't exist in the power level required to say sod off like Gloom and Chill used to, or Blood Moon does, which is probably a good thing but means that they won't be hateful enough to make a difference in those 10/90 % matches, and the format lacks filtering to the extent that even if they did we could not draw the answers consistently early enough- No E tutor, no Brainstorm/fecth synergy, no answer when I need it.
Here is the next bit I referred to to illustrate. You can change the name of random janky deck, the principle remains. In Modern over the past couple of years I have run decks like Martyr proc and Wx Devotion Enchantment pillow forts or Enduring Ideal. Unsurprisingly the latter Enchantment decks keep beating Humans because main deck Leylines stop freebooter, and sphere of Safety/Ghostly prison make attacking very unlikely when the whole of the deck is defensive enchantments. T4 pay 8 to attack is one thing, turn 8 pay 15 or more is another. The Martyr decks have a nasty habit of early gaining life, recurring chump blockers via S. Hawks can recursively Forecast Kami of Fogness. Like any good control imitating deck nowadays they use different sweepers. At the same time beating Tron, for example, is only vaguely possible in both cases with a skewed sideboard.
So in order to bridge the gap they need to print a lot more than Alpine Moon or Damping Sphere, and some tutoring to get it early.
Modern is stuck forever with its pool,despite new cards being added. The static nature is due to philosophy, it won't get better tutoring, for example. Legacy has such great selection that a meaningful hate piece gets play as it has selection/tutoring. Printing that for Modern would be lethal as there is no FOW to keep combo in check. Without better tutoring it will not matter what new hate card get printed. By and large all new pushed cards have been critters since the days of Snappy, they won't take the game back to the stack and most importantly they won't print cards that keep people out of the game by taxing them. They certainly won't tax planeswalker abilities, blowing up lands is a no-no, even on symmetrical Smokestack type cards. No, all we get is an endless stream of Buglers and a few hate cards that prick rather than slice their prey. Net result is we discover "new" decks but really they are all they same - some random explosive deck that sometimes has 8 or 10 power t2, and sometimes whiffs. Some tribal build based on Vial, Cavern and tribe du jour. Some deck based on Tron. Some control deck in UWx. Some good stuff deck like Jund or Mardu that is always not quite there, bubbling under the top tables with Burn. Plenty more will have some measure of success, but not over the longer events consistently. Rogue corner is always full, but the leaderboard normally has a predicable top 32/64 in the GPs. Some broken combo deck that gets banned and comes back but not as good. Basically the phrase we use in cricket- you can change the bowler, but not the bowling.
Conceptually, I agree. Due to the nature of what they print now, its difficult to shake the foundations of the format. Push did this however, as did Search, Teferi, and unbannings can (and could) have further effect.
At a high level though, I do believe that there are cards which are cornerstones of the format that unless banned (Tron, Vial, Cryptic, Snaps, etc) will certainly be present to some degree.
drmarkd I agree on all points. It's basically impossible to make many strategies work in modern because they went so creature centric due to draft and limited. If they had Force of Will and Wasteland, they would never have had to ban a lot of blue tutor / draw. Modern really needs to become it's own thing seperate from standard. They can keep the whole "You can play your standard cards in modern" thing, but it needs to start bringing in the stronger plays to let people have the freedom they are missing from the format. For comparison, Legacy has fast mana, yet paradoxically is the slower format when compared to modern. It has ridiculous cards like Force of Will that is a turn 0 counterspell, yet the card is sideboard material in that format along with daze thanks to the drawbacks. It has tutors and card draw everywhere, yet combo hasn't run the world over. From a lot of angles modern really looks like the mistake format compared to the original legacy. At least in it's current form.
Also as someone who has played frontier, it actually gets worse. Standard is okay as an extension of the draft and limited and an on ramp for the game, but the non-rotating formats of commander and modern need the rich history locked away in the legacy format. Not all of it, but at least some of it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've been looking around a bit last night. Does anyone else have any input on the idea that green is under-represented in modern right now in the top deck line up? I tend to be bigger on FNM level play than the top level these days and I know people still play a lot of green decks at that level. I haven't heard of a lot of top lists being primarily green though, and seeing the decay on Tarmogoyf prices on the second hand market appears to indicate that the pro scene for green is a tad stagnant.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Depends on what you mean by green.
Bant spirits and humans run exalted mana dorks that are both literally and conceptually green. Green Tron is green obviously, and the best version, and Stirrings, whilst conceptually a blue card of sorts is green in essentially non green decks like Lantern. What is missing is green beats decks, and they always have since the days of Zoo. Infect is closest, and it feels less Blue nowadays.
Tammy is in an odd spot, Jund is at the top table of good stuff decks, alongside Mardu Pyromancer, but those decks that had decent matches vs everyone don't enjoy that in a world of random 10 power t2 when the disruption is only Thought seize and push.
Personally I dislike good stuff 55 to 60 pcent decks where the worst match is 40/60 and mist matches are positive. I like skewed matches, I just wish that skewed matches for other decks were 70/30 not 90/10.
Depends on what you mean by green.
Bant spirits and humans run exalted mana dorks that are both literally and conceptually green. Green Tron is green obviously, and the best version, and Stirrings, whilst conceptually a blue card of sorts is green in essentially non green decks like Lantern. What is missing is green beats decks, and they always have since the days of Zoo. Infect is closest, and it feels less Blue nowadays.
Tammy is in an odd spot, Jund is at the top table of good stuff decks, alongside Mardu Pyromancer, but those decks that had decent matches vs everyone don't enjoy that in a world of random 10 power t2 when the disruption is only Thought seize and push.
Personally I dislike good stuff 55 to 60 pcent decks where the worst match is 40/60 and mist matches are positive. I like skewed matches, I just wish that skewed matches for other decks were 70/30 not 90/10.
This reminds me of an article I read by Andrew Jessup back in February last year when he played Death's Shadow and piloted the deck to the top. His take on modern is that it is a broken format that is held in check by the droves of suboptimal decks flying around, and I totally agree with him on that notion. However, I don't think he really understood why this was happening, since he was focused on win ratios and people believing their decks were good when they weren't. The reason this happens is that the cost of reshuffling ones library to play the top deck requires far more time and money than standard. To do so affordably, one has to first sell their existing cards or trade them away to get some of the parts, usually at a 10-15% loss if they're really good at it. Then they have to find whatever they couldn't actively trade for online and wait for a couple of weeks for the mail to arrive. It's the same kind of problem Warhammer AOS has with figures. Even if a rules update were to make Stormcast Eternals weaker, that person already put tons of time and money into painting a Stormcast eternal army and doesn't have the ability to just flip and swap over at a whim to the next best thing.
On the same note, though, Wizards of the Coast doesn't care if a format is broken fundamentally. If they did, they would be a lot more aggressive with reshaping the game across all formats to their current vision of what MTG is supposed to be. What they do care about is that all the existing formats are promoting Magic the Gathering and helping the game sell. As long as nothing takes over the format and people feel they have freedom to do what they please, they wont act on it.
At least, that is what I've learned from the last three years watching standard. Even if their reaction a lot of the time was of a man flailing his arms wildly in the air with flaming underwear and assuring people they were working on fixing the issues with the game, they were acting because of dropping attendance. Not sure how making the cards sound like sandpaper when rubbed together and smell like the stuff my neighbors illegally incinerate around the fourth of July fixes things, but it must be fixing something.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't agree. Modern (and Legacy for that matter) have a critical mass on collection size, once you hit that critical mass it becomes easy and cheap to switch decks.
In modern, that critical mass isn't hard to achieve. At about the $3000 collection mark, assuming you bought smart, you can switch into almost any deck for under $150.
I don't agree. Modern (and Legacy for that matter) have a critical mass on collection size, once you hit that critical mass it becomes easy and cheap to switch decks.
In modern, that critical mass isn't hard to achieve. At about the $3000 collection mark, assuming you bought smart, you can switch into almost any deck for under $150.
It depends if someone is a collector. I know I collect cards and don't really trade out of them, so I build up this huge bunker of cards in my basement and can swap to a lot of decks. The main limiting factor is the lands, since those have a ton of cross over between decks in modern. They could print fetches and shocks to oblivion and people would still be buying them up. If someone had a dozen fetches for like 50 bucks I don't think anyone here would be like "No thanks, I totally need more snapcasters." Not saying that we couldn't use more snappy, but a dozen fetches vs 1/2 a snapcaster mage, there isn't even a contest.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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I just wish Teferi was mono blue instead of UW so Grixis and UR builds could be more viable.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I don't know, we know the answer for UR. You play Blue Moon, or wait. Grixis..I don't know what the draw is, but I've never liked playing with discards personally. That thread looks like its leaning towards the Blue Jund era again.
Spirits
Just hit Stirrings. You bring down the power of several decks to the majority of the field that way.
G Tron, KCI and Hardened Affinity.
Oh, and free both SFM, and Twin.
Spirits
Grixis' problem has always been closing speed, so I don't think Teferi is what they need. Death's Shadow was what they needed, so the people still trying to make the slower Grixis shells work are honestly kidding themselves. There's also the fundamental flaw in that color combination that they can't deal with enchantments.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Well funny that. Let me quote YOU, which is the quote that was IN MY POST.
Maybe don't be condescending next time?
Again, the alleged problem is the manner in which KCI makes rounds go too long and how much time is added (like Eggs added time), not simply that KCI makes rounds go to time alone (many decks do that). I just figured we were all on the same page about this being the issue under discussion. Also, that we were on the same page about that manner in which KCI allegedly extended rounds, I.e. through individually long combo turns like Eggs. This prolongs rounds far longer than a deck like UW Control could do and we've talked about this before, hence "TOO" long in my quote and not simply going to time.
I think it's pretty clear that UW Control going to turns has nothing to do with alleged KCI logistical issues of individually long combo turns. Further, I just don't see how your comment of "we should ban UW control" advances the thread, especially when given in response to the very present issue of KCI logistics. Either it was made in bad faith to begin with OR it was just a misunderstanding about the core KCI issue. I assumed the latter, which is why I explained that core KCI issue in my reply.
I don't mean poorly designed as too strong. If anything I think it's too weak. I have no problems with a PW win condition. My only complaint about Teferi is that it doesn't win fast enough.
Good design in my opinion would encourage the player to quit because the game is over. When it ultimates, it's not obvious to everyone that the game has already been decided even though it has. JTMS does this well, Teferi does not.
Teferi is a good card, and a powerful card. I just think it's a bad design. Plenty of good and powerful cards are bad designs.
Ah, my apologies then. I've been arguing in more than a few places with people who think he's actually too good, because god forbid someone lose to Control.
Spirits
Exile all but the bottom card of the library or something would be fair and end the game one turn after an ultimate.
What I want:
ban: nothing.
unban: #1) TWIN #2) SFM #3) GSZ
1. Twin
2. Stoneforge
3. Green Sun
4. Preordain
I get #4. I would like to ask, because I never played any format with any of these cards, how exactly modern as a format gets better with them. I'm not asking "what deck becomes good with card X." I'm asking how the format, overall, gets better. If it is just a guess, that's fine, I'm not asking for evidence. Theories as to why all of modern improves is plenty.
Here are some, not all, of the theories for each card. Note that I do not necessarily agree with these theories. I'm just presenting them.
1. Twin: Forces decks to interact because if you don't then Twin disrupts your T2/T3 combo and then wins itself on T4. Slows down the format.
2. SFM: Blunts aggro decks and gives slower decks a bridge to the mid-game and late-game. Slows down the format. Makes white a more desirable color in the format.
3. GSZ: Improves green creature-based toolbox decks, which are largely underplayed right now.
4. Preordan: Gives blue decks the same access to consistency boosting cantrips as Stirrings/Looting decks. Improves access to specific answers in matchups that depend on answers.
Of course, there are also arguments against all of these theories, but that's at least a breakdown of where some unban proponents are coming from.
It would also create breathing space for BGx, and give Control something to target.
Unleashing Twin, would have a large slowing impact on the format.
Spirits
After years of playing this format, I personally view Splinter Twin as the Fence Post for the Modern banned list, you have to be at least that problematic to join the rest of the crew to only see daylight in No Banned List Modern.
Amen to that.
I think Modern is a fun format from some perspectives- so many off beat strategies bring a smile to my face - but creatures rather than the stack is where most games are decided. At the very highest tables there are basically Humans, Tron, random graveyard abusing explosive deck d or (hollow one, bridgevine, whatever you call them- the same inconsistent but explosive critter decks), KCI, and UW control and its ilk.
Now over a five round event you can pilot a lesser deck to the top by hitting the right matches, but over a bigger event those decks will rise.
Feel free to skip the next bit where I talk about what I run and what it loses to. The TL:DR is always the same- I can have a deck with a fantastic record against one or two of those decks, nigh on unbeatable, and will have a nigh on unwinnable match in another two, but the bottom line is to get a deck into the top echelons needs cards capable of turning round 10/90 matches. We got stuck at a point in time where any new power comes basically from new critters and even when new answers/hosers are printed they don't exist in the power level required to say sod off like Gloom and Chill used to, or Blood Moon does, which is probably a good thing but means that they won't be hateful enough to make a difference in those 10/90 % matches, and the format lacks filtering to the extent that even if they did we could not draw the answers consistently early enough- No E tutor, no Brainstorm/fecth synergy, no answer when I need it.
Here is the next bit I referred to to illustrate. You can change the name of random janky deck, the principle remains. In Modern over the past couple of years I have run decks like Martyr proc and Wx Devotion Enchantment pillow forts or Enduring Ideal. Unsurprisingly the latter Enchantment decks keep beating Humans because main deck Leylines stop freebooter, and sphere of Safety/Ghostly prison make attacking very unlikely when the whole of the deck is defensive enchantments. T4 pay 8 to attack is one thing, turn 8 pay 15 or more is another. The Martyr decks have a nasty habit of early gaining life, recurring chump blockers via S. Hawks can recursively Forecast Kami of Fogness. Like any good control imitating deck nowadays they use different sweepers. At the same time beating Tron, for example, is only vaguely possible in both cases with a skewed sideboard.
So in order to bridge the gap they need to print a lot more than Alpine Moon or Damping Sphere, and some tutoring to get it early.
Modern is stuck forever with its pool,despite new cards being added. The static nature is due to philosophy, it won't get better tutoring, for example. Legacy has such great selection that a meaningful hate piece gets play as it has selection/tutoring. Printing that for Modern would be lethal as there is no FOW to keep combo in check. Without better tutoring it will not matter what new hate card get printed. By and large all new pushed cards have been critters since the days of Snappy, they won't take the game back to the stack and most importantly they won't print cards that keep people out of the game by taxing them. They certainly won't tax planeswalker abilities, blowing up lands is a no-no, even on symmetrical Smokestack type cards. No, all we get is an endless stream of Buglers and a few hate cards that prick rather than slice their prey. Net result is we discover "new" decks but really they are all they same - some random explosive deck that sometimes has 8 or 10 power t2, and sometimes whiffs. Some tribal build based on Vial, Cavern and tribe du jour. Some deck based on Tron. Some control deck in UWx. Some good stuff deck like Jund or Mardu that is always not quite there, bubbling under the top tables with Burn. Plenty more will have some measure of success, but not over the longer events consistently. Rogue corner is always full, but the leaderboard normally has a predicable top 32/64 in the GPs. Some broken combo deck that gets banned and comes back but not as good. Basically the phrase we use in cricket- you can change the bowler, but not the bowling.
At a high level though, I do believe that there are cards which are cornerstones of the format that unless banned (Tron, Vial, Cryptic, Snaps, etc) will certainly be present to some degree.
Spirits
Also as someone who has played frontier, it actually gets worse. Standard is okay as an extension of the draft and limited and an on ramp for the game, but the non-rotating formats of commander and modern need the rich history locked away in the legacy format. Not all of it, but at least some of it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Bant spirits and humans run exalted mana dorks that are both literally and conceptually green. Green Tron is green obviously, and the best version, and Stirrings, whilst conceptually a blue card of sorts is green in essentially non green decks like Lantern. What is missing is green beats decks, and they always have since the days of Zoo. Infect is closest, and it feels less Blue nowadays.
Tammy is in an odd spot, Jund is at the top table of good stuff decks, alongside Mardu Pyromancer, but those decks that had decent matches vs everyone don't enjoy that in a world of random 10 power t2 when the disruption is only Thought seize and push.
Personally I dislike good stuff 55 to 60 pcent decks where the worst match is 40/60 and mist matches are positive. I like skewed matches, I just wish that skewed matches for other decks were 70/30 not 90/10.
This reminds me of an article I read by Andrew Jessup back in February last year when he played Death's Shadow and piloted the deck to the top. His take on modern is that it is a broken format that is held in check by the droves of suboptimal decks flying around, and I totally agree with him on that notion. However, I don't think he really understood why this was happening, since he was focused on win ratios and people believing their decks were good when they weren't. The reason this happens is that the cost of reshuffling ones library to play the top deck requires far more time and money than standard. To do so affordably, one has to first sell their existing cards or trade them away to get some of the parts, usually at a 10-15% loss if they're really good at it. Then they have to find whatever they couldn't actively trade for online and wait for a couple of weeks for the mail to arrive. It's the same kind of problem Warhammer AOS has with figures. Even if a rules update were to make Stormcast Eternals weaker, that person already put tons of time and money into painting a Stormcast eternal army and doesn't have the ability to just flip and swap over at a whim to the next best thing.
On the same note, though, Wizards of the Coast doesn't care if a format is broken fundamentally. If they did, they would be a lot more aggressive with reshaping the game across all formats to their current vision of what MTG is supposed to be. What they do care about is that all the existing formats are promoting Magic the Gathering and helping the game sell. As long as nothing takes over the format and people feel they have freedom to do what they please, they wont act on it.
At least, that is what I've learned from the last three years watching standard. Even if their reaction a lot of the time was of a man flailing his arms wildly in the air with flaming underwear and assuring people they were working on fixing the issues with the game, they were acting because of dropping attendance. Not sure how making the cards sound like sandpaper when rubbed together and smell like the stuff my neighbors illegally incinerate around the fourth of July fixes things, but it must be fixing something.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
In modern, that critical mass isn't hard to achieve. At about the $3000 collection mark, assuming you bought smart, you can switch into almost any deck for under $150.
It depends if someone is a collector. I know I collect cards and don't really trade out of them, so I build up this huge bunker of cards in my basement and can swap to a lot of decks. The main limiting factor is the lands, since those have a ton of cross over between decks in modern. They could print fetches and shocks to oblivion and people would still be buying them up. If someone had a dozen fetches for like 50 bucks I don't think anyone here would be like "No thanks, I totally need more snapcasters." Not saying that we couldn't use more snappy, but a dozen fetches vs 1/2 a snapcaster mage, there isn't even a contest.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!