reprinting counterspell but then keeping it in check with a cavern reprint alongside a bunch of uncounterable stuff sounds awful for standard. wizards doesnt care enough about modern to tank standard, at least not in the context of maybe helping one color or archetype.
my guess is that modern wasnt even a blip on their radar when they designed wizards retort, including hoping it would have some impact on the format. they just wanted to give some love to a fringe tribe and there had to be some payoff non-creature spells because that is what wizards do.
rug scapeshift too powerful? you mean the deck that barely eeks by as tier 2 and often doesnt even play serum visions? preordain isnt THAT good.
imo counting up the cards that various colors get from standard sets is a poor way to look at things. control decks certainly havent fallen behind, with evidence being they are in the same spot they typically are. UR storm means blue combo is in a better spot than it usually is, and tempo decks arent good for entirely non-blue related reasons.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Preordain would impact Storm and Death's Shadow the most
Storm sure but I don't think Preordian brings DS back.
As for why Wizard's Retort cause its Dominaria so they know the fanbase wants Counterspell but they think Counterspell and Bolt are too good for standard ergo. They gave psuedo Counter and Bolt.
Preordain would impact Storm and Death's Shadow the most
Storm sure but I don't think Preordian brings DS back.
As for why Wizard's Retort cause its Dominaria so they know the fanbase wants Counterspell but they think Counterspell and Blot are too good for standard ergo. They gave psuedo Counter and Bolt.
Yeah but if we somehow returned to the DS meta like it was a few months ago, we would really see the power of Preordain in DS... Which I dont think is a bad thing!
@Jordan and people at Modern Nexus or in here: A nice experiment would be if someone could test SFM in that Mardu reveler deck.
I am getting increasingly confident that it's too much for this deck, even if it's OK as a card to have in the format.
I would love to find some time and test it out myself. Maybe I could.
Have you looked in detail at those decks? Where are they going to cut 6 slots for SFM? The deck is incredibly tight and it takes a lot of advantage of how few wincons it has to play by jamming tons of crazy cards in there.
SFM would be so fine in Modern I cant even work up the ire to debate it. Jace is fine, worse than that, Jace isnt even good in Modern.
To pretend that SFM would somehow destroy Modern is comical. If SFM CRUSHED aggro so it was 20% of the meta instead of 50%, I would consider that a net gain...
@Jordan and people at Modern Nexus or in here: A nice experiment would be if someone could test SFM in that Mardu reveler deck.
I am getting increasingly confident that it's too much for this deck, even if it's OK as a card to have in the format.
I would love to find some time and test it out myself. Maybe I could.
Have you looked in detail at those decks? Where are they going to cut 6 slots for SFM? The deck is incredibly tight and it takes a lot of advantage of how few wincons it has to play by jamming tons of crazy cards in there.
I'm not sure it needs to be a 4/1/1 split. Could be 3/1/1 or even 2/1 SFM/Batterskull. That being said, the only cards I consider to be absolute requirements in Pyromancer outside of the manabase: Young Pyromancer, Bedlam Reveler, Lingering Souls, Lightning Bolt, Faithless Looting, Blood Moon, K-command and IoK. I'd argue that everything else is not an "auto 3-4 of" to the deck while Moon is usually just a 1-2 anyways. Collective Brutality, for instance, is spectacular against burn, solid against aggro in general, and bad against midrange, ramp and control.
Re: SFM
I'm sort of with idSurge on this one; I really think there's no reason to worry about her impact on Modern. There are just so many powerful strategies and effects in the format that can ignore SFM. Modern has ample correcting mechanisms to beat fair cards. For example, note the major decline in big mana decks these days due to an uptick of aggressive strategies plus Field of Ruin. If SFM decks pushed out aggressive decks, I'm sure big mana would be back to keep them in check. See the last 12-15 months for an example of Modern self-regulation in the face of numerous decks and cards that people alleged were broken. SFM does not change that picture any more than AV/BBE/JTMS/Sword did.
Re: SFM
I'm sort of with idSurge on this one; I really think there's no reason to worry about her impact on Modern. There are just so many powerful strategies and effects in the format that can ignore SFM. Modern has ample correcting mechanisms to beat fair cards. For example, note the major decline in big mana decks these days due to an uptick of aggressive strategies plus Field of Ruin. If SFM decks pushed out aggressive decks, I'm sure big mana would be back to keep them in check. See the last 12-15 months for an example of Modern self-regulation in the face of numerous decks and cards that people alleged were broken. SFM does not change that picture any more than AV/BBE/JTMS/Sword did.
This is the major take away.
"Modern has ample correcting mechanisms to beat fair cards."
"See the last 12-15 months for an example of Modern self-regulation in the face of numerous decks and cards that people alleged were broken."
Unless a fair card somehow empowers an UNFAIR strategy (perhaps Preordain for example) then...I just dont buy it that these cards must remain banned.
Its nonsense. Have people looked at Storm's sideboard recently? I saw a list and near every card was a way to answer permanents like Damping Sphere.
It takes a very special set of conditions to 'break' Modern at this point. We all lived through it, but seriously just look at the original Eldrazi Aggro decks and realize just how fundamentally broken that was.
I'm not sure it needs to be a 4/1/1 split. Could be 3/1/1 or even 2/1 SFM/Batterskull. That being said, the only cards I consider to be absolute requirements in Pyromancer outside of the manabase: Young Pyromancer, Bedlam Reveler, Lingering Souls, Lightning Bolt, Faithless Looting, Blood Moon, K-command and IoK. I'd argue that everything else is not an "auto 3-4 of" to the deck while Moon is usually just a 1-2 anyways. Collective Brutality, for instance, is spectacular against burn, solid against aggro in general, and bad against midrange, ramp and control.
If you think all the threats are "absolute requirements" then there's no room. The deck needs all of its non-threat cards to be answers or filtering. The deck really runs on reveler and pyromancer and souls from what I can see, if it needs more threats they should be good combo-killers like Liliana.
I'd need to see some detailed playtesting. I don't see how SFM beats burn more handily than collective brutality does.
@Jordan and people at Modern Nexus or in here: A nice experiment would be if someone could test SFM in that Mardu reveler deck.
I am getting increasingly confident that it's too much for this deck, even if it's OK as a card to have in the format.
I would love to find some time and test it out myself. Maybe I could.
You're making the same mistake that people make every time people evaluate unbans. You're looking at it as if Mardu Pyro is still has the same cards, draws, and plays it has now, and then on top of that it's also jamming on-curve Stoneforge Mystic.
Pyro would have to entirely change to accommodate Stoneforge. First by retooling its mana base in which white is an afterthought. Then by trying to make that new mana base work around Blood Moon. In a format bristling with unfair like Modern, you really need to evaluate how many points you're going to gain by shocking yourself down to 14 and playing Squire into Batterskull when you could just ended the game turn 3 because your opponent scoops to Blood Moon.
And then there's Death & Taxes, in which Stoneforge has anti-synergy with literally the entire architecture of the deck of the deck. I'm not a D&T player so I don't have much insight into that, but last time a Stoneforge unban came up, the D&T players were pretty lukewarm on it.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Seem's the guess is the same kind of meta they had last.
"Want to do well at #SCGBalt? Play Humans, Affinity, or a deck that beats them. You can get away with a deck that flips coins with them by slanting towards beating creatures."
I definitely agree that Stoneforge Mystic is 100% okay, but if Death and Taxes players are saying that it may not go into Death and Taxes, that seems just very, very wrong.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I want the power level of all decks in general to equate to Humans since Humans really isn't doing anything too powerful and I think is a fine place to reach from the inevitable power creep. Right now, the drawbacks to the Humans deck aren't equal to the pros of the deck because no deck can punish a deck 100% full of creatures. That's why we need Preordain specifically. SFM will help as well.
When a deck like Jesaki Control (which is a deck filled with removal)l is forced to use cards like Engineered Explosives and still have roughly a 50% MU with a deck that is all creatures, then the power level is imbalanced. I like the idea of powering up other agents in a meta game rather than nerfing them.
It must be the solution because of how the Humans, Hallow One, and Afinity decks works (i.e. what cards would we even ban from these decks? Are these decks really doing things that are too good?) I think the current meta game raises more questions when it comes to bannings than when it comes to unbannings
When a deck like Jesaki Control (which is a deck filled with removal)l is forced to use cards like Engineered Explosives and still have roughly a 50% MU with a deck that is all creatures, then the power level is imbalanced. I like the idea of powering up other agents in a meta game rather than nerfing them.
This is what I was telling people about the Titanshift vs. Humans matchup - a matchup that I play tested intensively before SB and after SB.
Titanshift is a big mana deck, yes, it is somewhat a Combo deck, yes. But it does super well vs. little creature decks that are not blazingly quick. Why? Maindeck 4 Lightning Bolt, 2 Slagstorm, Valakut triggers. Sideboard 2 Anger of the Gods, 2 Roast, and sometimes even Engineered Explosives. Titanshift also has a somewhat quick clock, able to kill most opponents on turn 4 with Scapeshift. Yes, with Humans, that clock is turn 5 because they don't deal damage to themselves, outside of Horizon Canopy occasionally. But the matchup is nearly 50%. I would expect to only win around 50-52% vs. Humans' players of equal play skill to me. That is scary.
Regarding Jeskai, I personally don't know the matchup. I assumed that Jeskai beat Humans pretty badly, like 6 out of 10 times, but maybe I was wrong? I literally thought that Humans was a big allure for running Jeskai. That and possibly Affinity, although good Affinity pilots have solved this matchup enough to be slightly favored.
Bannings to those parts of those decks would absolutely cripple Hollow One and Affinity. I think Humans would still be somewhat all right, depending on what's hit of course. But I think that the FOCUS should be on unbannings. Unbanning cards that don't pose a problem to the format that all of us love, even if it's not perfect, is a good way to attract even more players.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Yep, Titanshift is my main deck too, and I don't run 4x bolts (since my local meta doesnt have too much Humans) so my MU is probably worse than 50/50 against them. I should probably increase that number when I play on mtgo tho, but tbh i see more Hallow One than any other deck
Against Elves I have probably beaten them 60-70% of the time too
No one should even be talking about bans in this thread. Look at Modern for the last 12-15 months. Do you see any bans from January 2017 onward? No. If Modern has diversity similar to that period, regardless of what is on top, bans aren't going to happen and Wizards considers it healthy. This includes the period of time where GDS was dominant and where E-Tron was dominant. Those periods did not produce bans because they were just short periods that eventually corrected with other decks. Same with Gx Tron in November 2017. Same (probably) with Humans/H1/Affinity today. Wizards has definitely conditioned Moderners to turn to bans with years of ban-first actions, but the last year-plus is a stark counterexample to this behavior. We need to start accepting that this style of Modern metagame is not one where bans happen.
jeskai is only slightly favored. i dunno about any percentages, but even with the density of removal and sweepers jeskai is still a spell based deck playing against cavern, vial, thalia, freebooter, and meddling mage. so there are draws from either side that can make games really lopsided. post board games arent much different. jeskai brings in more removal and sweepers but humans brings in more spell disruption and anti-sweeper tech; therefore whoever takes game 1 is pretty favored to take the match.
id still classify humans as a deck id like to see multiple times in a tournament given the list of more popular decks in the format. hollow one is a definite 'never wanna play against when it matters'. too much of a crapshoot.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
No one should even be talking about bans in this thread. Look at Modern for the last 12-15 months. Do you see any bans from January 2017 onward? No. If Modern has diversity similar to that period, regardless of what is on top, bans aren't going to happen and Wizards considers it healthy. This includes the period of time where GDS was dominant and where E-Tron was dominant. Those periods did not produce bans because they were just short periods that eventually corrected with other decks. Same with Gx Tron in November 2017. Same (probably) with Humans/H1/Affinity today. Wizards has definitely conditioned Moderners to turn to bans with years of ban-first actions, but the last year-plus is a stark counterexample to this behavior. We need to start accepting that this style of Modern metagame is not one where bans happen.
I only bring it up when others do, mostly to quell any ban talk, but at least seem as though I am taking it seriously.
jeskai is only slightly favored. i dunno about any percentages, but even with the density of removal and sweepers jeskai is still a spell based deck playing against cavern, vial, thalia, freebooter, and meddling mage. so there are draws from either side that can make games really lopsided. post board games arent much different. jeskai brings in more removal and sweepers but humans brings in more spell disruption and anti-sweeper tech; therefore whoever takes game 1 is pretty favored to take the match.
id still classify humans as a deck id like to see multiple times in a tournament given the list of more popular decks in the format. hollow one is a definite 'never wanna play against when it matters'. too much of a crapshoot.
I've been recently running decks mostly that are good against Humans and Hollow One, but I am nearly at your point. Maybe I should just hedge against one and hope to not face the other. (for what it's worth, I've been doing Bogles, Abzan Counters Company, and now Elves)
I am also considering saying **** it and running Hollow One myself. I've had the deck for a while now, but the play testing with it has leaned me toward thinking it's very inconsistent. But one thing that is interesting is that it can beat very bad matchups just by having nut hands. I feel it can do that more so than other decks in the format.
P.S. - I should say that this gives me some more insight as to why people say that "Jeskai is bad." I always assumed that you beat the Humans matchup most of the time. That's even more sad to me than the fact that Titanshift is 50% vs. it.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Money is on StoneForge Mystic being suddenly invited into tons of Jeskai, Taxes, Maverick and other fringe decks and after a month, she goes to the sidelines to sit at Jace's side, both of them talking about the good old Cawblade times.
What do people expect of a Preordain unban? I still don't see how it is supposed to make UW and Jeskai good all of a sudden when neither Serum Visions or Opt do the trick. A consistent turn 4 sweeper is still not scary. I sort of prefer it over Opt because the untapped land drives me crazy about whether they could be having a bolt or a path until they play the card and you go "phew they were only durdling".
Order of likelihood a a deck benefiting from Preordain:
Delver
Grixis Death's Shadow
Storm
U / R Breach
U / W Control
If all Preordain does is to slightly increase the number of Insectile aberrations hovering on Modern tables...meh, better off banned. We have Hollow One when wanting to play RNG.
Better cantrips still don't provide meaningful win conditions or better pieces of interaction. Don't get me wrong, I would love Preordain, but I'm also realistic that it doesn't fundamentally fix anything in reactive blue decks.
Nothing can fix reactive blue decks. It's just a problematic category in Modern(I am talking about pure control decks, without combo finishes)
The only thing that would realistically fix them is to ban Cavern of Souls(this alone could cut it to be honet), Eldrazi Temple, Tron, Valakut, Hollow one, Boggles, Dredge, Lingering Souls and several other problematic cards/decks(or just many of them), aka make Modern as it was during Mclauren's era: a non-diverse format, where your sideboard can cover really everything.
Control is a lost cause in Modern if you seek to have a Tier 1 deck that can consistently take GP's down.
That doesn't mean Preordain wouldn't help at all, even if it's not happening(Wizards probably won't unban a 1 cmc mana card).
Banning Cavern makes the Eldrazi matchup better for sure, but the humans deck is already 50/50 at worst for removal oriented decks. Making it worse would just bring its metashare down and another aggro deck up which might be better against control.
Control is a lost cause in Modern if you seek to have a Tier 1 deck that can consistently take GP's down.
That's a shame, especially since Wizards has said multiple times (as well as unbanned multiple cards) in order to specifically make that archetype competitively viable.
Control is a lost cause in Modern if you seek to have a Tier 1 deck that can consistently take GP's down.
That's a shame, especially since Wizards has said multiple times (as well as unbanned multiple cards) in order to specifically make that archetype competitively viable.
It wont be. When you know, literally know, that every single game is going to be pushing the timer unless you LOSE, its simply not a viable option. Without an appropriate way to close out the show, and no Collonade beats are not 'appropriate' trying to prevent people from going off and killing you, is simply putting yourself on the back foot.
UWR is STILL the deck I actually enjoy the most, but its not what I would play if someone put a gun to my head.
I would play Affinity.
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UW Spirits
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my guess is that modern wasnt even a blip on their radar when they designed wizards retort, including hoping it would have some impact on the format. they just wanted to give some love to a fringe tribe and there had to be some payoff non-creature spells because that is what wizards do.
rug scapeshift too powerful? you mean the deck that barely eeks by as tier 2 and often doesnt even play serum visions? preordain isnt THAT good.
imo counting up the cards that various colors get from standard sets is a poor way to look at things. control decks certainly havent fallen behind, with evidence being they are in the same spot they typically are. UR storm means blue combo is in a better spot than it usually is, and tempo decks arent good for entirely non-blue related reasons.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Storm sure but I don't think Preordian brings DS back.
As for why Wizard's Retort cause its Dominaria so they know the fanbase wants Counterspell but they think Counterspell and Bolt are too good for standard ergo. They gave psuedo Counter and Bolt.
Yeah but if we somehow returned to the DS meta like it was a few months ago, we would really see the power of Preordain in DS... Which I dont think is a bad thing!
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Have you looked in detail at those decks? Where are they going to cut 6 slots for SFM? The deck is incredibly tight and it takes a lot of advantage of how few wincons it has to play by jamming tons of crazy cards in there.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
To pretend that SFM would somehow destroy Modern is comical. If SFM CRUSHED aggro so it was 20% of the meta instead of 50%, I would consider that a net gain...
Spirits
I'm not sure it needs to be a 4/1/1 split. Could be 3/1/1 or even 2/1 SFM/Batterskull. That being said, the only cards I consider to be absolute requirements in Pyromancer outside of the manabase: Young Pyromancer, Bedlam Reveler, Lingering Souls, Lightning Bolt, Faithless Looting, Blood Moon, K-command and IoK. I'd argue that everything else is not an "auto 3-4 of" to the deck while Moon is usually just a 1-2 anyways. Collective Brutality, for instance, is spectacular against burn, solid against aggro in general, and bad against midrange, ramp and control.
I'm sort of with idSurge on this one; I really think there's no reason to worry about her impact on Modern. There are just so many powerful strategies and effects in the format that can ignore SFM. Modern has ample correcting mechanisms to beat fair cards. For example, note the major decline in big mana decks these days due to an uptick of aggressive strategies plus Field of Ruin. If SFM decks pushed out aggressive decks, I'm sure big mana would be back to keep them in check. See the last 12-15 months for an example of Modern self-regulation in the face of numerous decks and cards that people alleged were broken. SFM does not change that picture any more than AV/BBE/JTMS/Sword did.
This is the major take away.
"Modern has ample correcting mechanisms to beat fair cards."
"See the last 12-15 months for an example of Modern self-regulation in the face of numerous decks and cards that people alleged were broken."
Unless a fair card somehow empowers an UNFAIR strategy (perhaps Preordain for example) then...I just dont buy it that these cards must remain banned.
Its nonsense. Have people looked at Storm's sideboard recently? I saw a list and near every card was a way to answer permanents like Damping Sphere.
It takes a very special set of conditions to 'break' Modern at this point. We all lived through it, but seriously just look at the original Eldrazi Aggro decks and realize just how fundamentally broken that was.
Thats the bar here, for 'broken'.
Spirits
If you think all the threats are "absolute requirements" then there's no room. The deck needs all of its non-threat cards to be answers or filtering. The deck really runs on reveler and pyromancer and souls from what I can see, if it needs more threats they should be good combo-killers like Liliana.
I'd need to see some detailed playtesting. I don't see how SFM beats burn more handily than collective brutality does.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
You're making the same mistake that people make every time people evaluate unbans. You're looking at it as if Mardu Pyro is still has the same cards, draws, and plays it has now, and then on top of that it's also jamming on-curve Stoneforge Mystic.
Pyro would have to entirely change to accommodate Stoneforge. First by retooling its mana base in which white is an afterthought. Then by trying to make that new mana base work around Blood Moon. In a format bristling with unfair like Modern, you really need to evaluate how many points you're going to gain by shocking yourself down to 14 and playing Squire into Batterskull when you could just ended the game turn 3 because your opponent scoops to Blood Moon.
And then there's Death & Taxes, in which Stoneforge has anti-synergy with literally the entire architecture of the deck of the deck. I'm not a D&T player so I don't have much insight into that, but last time a Stoneforge unban came up, the D&T players were pretty lukewarm on it.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/37054_Keeping-Watch-On-SCG-Baltimores-Larger-Trends.html
Seem's the guess is the same kind of meta they had last.
"Want to do well at #SCGBalt? Play Humans, Affinity, or a deck that beats them. You can get away with a deck that flips coins with them by slanting towards beating creatures."
Spirits
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)When a deck like Jesaki Control (which is a deck filled with removal)l is forced to use cards like Engineered Explosives and still have roughly a 50% MU with a deck that is all creatures, then the power level is imbalanced. I like the idea of powering up other agents in a meta game rather than nerfing them.
It must be the solution because of how the Humans, Hallow One, and Afinity decks works (i.e. what cards would we even ban from these decks? Are these decks really doing things that are too good?) I think the current meta game raises more questions when it comes to bannings than when it comes to unbannings
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
This is what I was telling people about the Titanshift vs. Humans matchup - a matchup that I play tested intensively before SB and after SB.
Titanshift is a big mana deck, yes, it is somewhat a Combo deck, yes. But it does super well vs. little creature decks that are not blazingly quick. Why? Maindeck 4 Lightning Bolt, 2 Slagstorm, Valakut triggers. Sideboard 2 Anger of the Gods, 2 Roast, and sometimes even Engineered Explosives. Titanshift also has a somewhat quick clock, able to kill most opponents on turn 4 with Scapeshift. Yes, with Humans, that clock is turn 5 because they don't deal damage to themselves, outside of Horizon Canopy occasionally. But the matchup is nearly 50%. I would expect to only win around 50-52% vs. Humans' players of equal play skill to me. That is scary.
Regarding Jeskai, I personally don't know the matchup. I assumed that Jeskai beat Humans pretty badly, like 6 out of 10 times, but maybe I was wrong? I literally thought that Humans was a big allure for running Jeskai. That and possibly Affinity, although good Affinity pilots have solved this matchup enough to be slightly favored.
Bannings to those parts of those decks would absolutely cripple Hollow One and Affinity. I think Humans would still be somewhat all right, depending on what's hit of course. But I think that the FOCUS should be on unbannings. Unbanning cards that don't pose a problem to the format that all of us love, even if it's not perfect, is a good way to attract even more players.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Against Elves I have probably beaten them 60-70% of the time too
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
id still classify humans as a deck id like to see multiple times in a tournament given the list of more popular decks in the format. hollow one is a definite 'never wanna play against when it matters'. too much of a crapshoot.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Like I said above the bar for 'broken' has been set. There is nothing even close. Nothing even problematic.
Spirits
I only bring it up when others do, mostly to quell any ban talk, but at least seem as though I am taking it seriously.
I've been recently running decks mostly that are good against Humans and Hollow One, but I am nearly at your point. Maybe I should just hedge against one and hope to not face the other. (for what it's worth, I've been doing Bogles, Abzan Counters Company, and now Elves)
I am also considering saying **** it and running Hollow One myself. I've had the deck for a while now, but the play testing with it has leaned me toward thinking it's very inconsistent. But one thing that is interesting is that it can beat very bad matchups just by having nut hands. I feel it can do that more so than other decks in the format.
P.S. - I should say that this gives me some more insight as to why people say that "Jeskai is bad." I always assumed that you beat the Humans matchup most of the time. That's even more sad to me than the fact that Titanshift is 50% vs. it.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)What do people expect of a Preordain unban? I still don't see how it is supposed to make UW and Jeskai good all of a sudden when neither Serum Visions or Opt do the trick. A consistent turn 4 sweeper is still not scary. I sort of prefer it over Opt because the untapped land drives me crazy about whether they could be having a bolt or a path until they play the card and you go "phew they were only durdling".
Order of likelihood a a deck benefiting from Preordain:
If all Preordain does is to slightly increase the number of Insectile aberrations hovering on Modern tables...meh, better off banned. We have Hollow One when wanting to play RNG.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Banning Cavern makes the Eldrazi matchup better for sure, but the humans deck is already 50/50 at worst for removal oriented decks. Making it worse would just bring its metashare down and another aggro deck up which might be better against control.
That's a shame, especially since Wizards has said multiple times (as well as unbanned multiple cards) in order to specifically make that archetype competitively viable.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
It wont be. When you know, literally know, that every single game is going to be pushing the timer unless you LOSE, its simply not a viable option. Without an appropriate way to close out the show, and no Collonade beats are not 'appropriate' trying to prevent people from going off and killing you, is simply putting yourself on the back foot.
UWR is STILL the deck I actually enjoy the most, but its not what I would play if someone put a gun to my head.
I would play Affinity.
Spirits