**Also there are streaks where someone just doesn't seem to win a die roll. You can't minimize their experience by saying that "everyone gets 50%." They're really not trying to hear that at that very time.
That's inherently common in randomization. Truly random numbers are very streaky, if they weren't, they would be in a pattern, and therefore not random. Hot and cold streaks are one indicator that things are happening as they should be.
*You gotta understand too that I am superstitious and believe in luck. It influences my beliefs. I know people that are like this too. I know people that are NOT like this. Many of my friends think I'm silly.
That is fine, not everyone is though you need to understand. I believe in God and my savior Jesus Christ and I can offer no proof, so I know what you are talking about in a matter of speaking. If you want to know what bad luck is, how about 3 young school aged sisters that lost their father to drug use and their mother to drug use in the course of 1 year and a grandfather to alcohol in a car wreck that killed another father whom had 3 children and a wife a few years before that? It happened to my cousin and his ex-wife. That is bad "luck" for those poor girls. I'll take a 46% die roll win chance over the previous scenario. Perspective.
Your odds on your die rolls will improve over time, God/Karma/Buddha/Fate or whatever isn't conspiring to make you lose die rolls. Take comfort in that. Enjoy the game and have fun.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'd like the pregenerated rolls to go a step further and attempt to skew it so that rather than random numbers you get an as close to equal percentage of play/draw as possible throughout a tournament.
For instance, if you won the play in round one and you're matched against someone who lost the play in round one, they should receive the play, and then subsequently determine based on this (e.g. if your play percentage is higher than your opponent's thus far, they receive the play).
I'd like the pregenerated rolls to go a step further and attempt to skew it so that rather than random numbers you get an as close to equal percentage of play/draw as possible throughout a tournament.
For instance, if you won the play in round one and you're matched against someone who lost the play in round one, they should receive the play, and then subsequently determine based on this (e.g. if your play percentage is higher than your opponent's thus far, they receive the play).
I'd actually like to see something more tangible like if you win the die roll and choose, your opponent gets to scry 1 or gets to draw an 8th card. It would be far easier to execute than following pre-generated tables or tracking who wins which rolls and when. But I agree with your overall sentiment.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
My mind was blown to see people defending 'Ghosting' or Stream Sniping. Its flat out cheating, indefensible.
I'll open this can of worms.
No it isn't. A person who streams live is willingly giving out free information to the public. If they are dumb enough or naive enough to think that it won't be used against them, then they deserve what they get. If I sit down and don't hold my hand back far enough to hide the cards and my opponent looks at my hand it isn't their fault, its mine because I was the idiot that didn't hide them well enough. Same difference. If they don't want their opponent to know, don't broadcast it (live stream) to the world. Delay it. End of story.
Its not even a topic of debate for me, its not at all the same as letting your hand slip.
A stream sniper has to actively look for this information, it is not 'public' unless you say 'hmm I'm going to check if he's streaming so I can see his hand'.
I mean I struggle not to see this as a character issue, I cannot debate this topic.
character issue sure, but they arent breaking any rules. until that isnt the case you stream with no safety measures at your own risk. most streamers seem fine with this trade off because they gain more from the stream itself and doing what they can to make it an entertaining experience.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
My mind was blown to see people defending 'Ghosting' or Stream Sniping. Its flat out cheating, indefensible.
I'll open this can of worms.
No it isn't. A person who streams live is willingly giving out free information to the public. If they are dumb enough or naive enough to think that it won't be used against them, then they deserve what they get. If I sit down and don't hold my hand back far enough to hide the cards and my opponent looks at my hand it isn't their fault, its mine because I was the idiot that didn't hide them well enough. Same difference. If they don't want their opponent to know, don't broadcast it (live stream) to the world. Delay it. End of story.
Its not even a topic of debate for me, its not at all the same as letting your hand slip.
A stream sniper has to actively look for this information, it is not 'public' unless you say 'hmm I'm going to check if he's streaming so I can see his hand'.
I mean I struggle not to see this as a character issue, I cannot debate this topic.
Hopefully without sounding too condescending, I think you need to look up what the meaning of "public" is. If its on the internet it is public. Again it deals with personal accountability. Some people won't ever claim it is "their fault" always the victim. And yes it is obvious that you don't want to debate this so there is no point. We agree to disagree and move on. All I can hope is for you to keep a more open mind, I can see your character point, but will not agree it is cheating. I'm not supporting cheaters, I'm rallying against stupidity/naivete of streamers and standing for personal accountability. We have to part ways on this one.
character issue sure, but they arent breaking any rules. until that isnt the case you stream with no safety measures at your own risk. most streamers seem fine with this trade off because they gain more from the stream itself and doing what they can to make it an entertaining experience.
An excellent point. Yet again I will say is it "fair" to an opponent that they are live-streamed or recorded without their knowledge or consent? I find that transgression far more egregious than a streamer who knowingly puts information out there and then pouts and gripes when it is used against them. In a private game a player should have reasonable expectation of privacy and not have it broadcast unless consent is given. Again I'm a big fan of personal account-ment and personal rights. If it isn't against the rules, its not cheating, plain and simple. I appreciate your thoughts.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
My mind was blown to see people defending 'Ghosting' or Stream Sniping. Its flat out cheating, indefensible.
I'll open this can of worms.
No it isn't. A person who streams live is willingly giving out free information to the public. If they are dumb enough or naive enough to think that it won't be used against them, then they deserve what they get. If I sit down and don't hold my hand back far enough to hide the cards and my opponent looks at my hand it isn't their fault, its mine because I was the idiot that didn't hide them well enough. Same difference. If they don't want their opponent to know, don't broadcast it (live stream) to the world. Delay it. End of story.
This is a terrible take and your corrected metaphor shows it. An opponent isn't glancing at your hand because you're carelessly holding it too far forward; they're actively logging on to twitch to find a stream. That's far more akin to your opponent leaning halfway across the table to see your hand to take advantage of your "carelessness".
Could you (and the streamer) have been more concerned about tipping your hand? Sure. But that doesn't excuse your opponent's behavior.
Sorry but you aren't even close. My "analogy" (not metaphor) is near dead on and exact. It is called individual accountability. You are responsible for your own actions, known ones and ones you may not be aware of. If your action is actively, knowingly and blatantly broadcasting your actions, the viewer isn't necessarily responsible for your actions. The streamer is. Just more of this snowflake, I'm not responsible for my own actions, entitlement bullcrap that is out there due to lack of correct upbringing and education. In fact I would take it a step farther that the individual who live streams an online game without the consent of the other player is actively harming that player by divulging information about their deck and play style. Now if both parties are in consent of the live stream, then yes the opponent looking at that stream is cheating. But if it is not announced or is clandestine, the burden of stupidity falls on the live streamer.
Leaning over is to view an unviewable hand is cheating. Looking at self televised/broadcast information is not, plain and simple. Why don't professional sports coaches like NFL coaches live stream their play calling and images of their playblook? Would the opponent be on the "honor system" not to view that broadcast. Hell no, they willingly and knowingly gave away that information. If I play with my hand showing on the table for all to see its my own damn fault. Then I would blame my opponent for looking at my hand because I was an idiot and say they were cheating. Please.
Individual accountability plain and simple.
I should know better -- definitely an analogy as opposed to a metaphor. As for the rest...I do know better than to dive any deeper into this with you given the unrelated Ayn Rand talking point bingo you're all too excited to rant about. Suffice it to say, that ghosting can be unethical while not being cheating; very similar to angle shooting in that way. While you can protect yourself from those actions (and in most cases should), that doesn't in any way excuse the behavior of an opponent. Turns out Magic, like life, is a little more complex than black and white.
My mind was blown to see people defending 'Ghosting' or Stream Sniping. Its flat out cheating, indefensible.
I'll open this can of worms.
No it isn't. A person who streams live is willingly giving out free information to the public. If they are dumb enough or naive enough to think that it won't be used against them, then they deserve what they get. If I sit down and don't hold my hand back far enough to hide the cards and my opponent looks at my hand it isn't their fault, its mine because I was the idiot that didn't hide them well enough. Same difference. If they don't want their opponent to know, don't broadcast it (live stream) to the world. Delay it. End of story.
This is a terrible take and your corrected metaphor shows it. An opponent isn't glancing at your hand because you're carelessly holding it too far forward; they're actively logging on to twitch to find a stream. That's far more akin to your opponent leaning halfway across the table to see your hand to take advantage of your "carelessness".
Could you (and the streamer) have been more concerned about tipping your hand? Sure. But that doesn't excuse your opponent's behavior.
Sorry but you aren't even close. My "analogy" (not metaphor) is near dead on and exact. It is called individual accountability. You are responsible for your own actions, known ones and ones you may not be aware of. If your action is actively, knowingly and blatantly broadcasting your actions, the viewer isn't necessarily responsible for your actions. The streamer is. Just more of this snowflake, I'm not responsible for my own actions, entitlement bullcrap that is out there due to lack of correct upbringing and education. In fact I would take it a step farther that the individual who live streams an online game without the consent of the other player is actively harming that player by divulging information about their deck and play style. Now if both parties are in consent of the live stream, then yes the opponent looking at that stream is cheating. But if it is not announced or is clandestine, the burden of stupidity falls on the live streamer.
Leaning over is to view an unviewable hand is cheating. Looking at self televised/broadcast information is not, plain and simple. Why don't professional sports coaches like NFL coaches live stream their play calling and images of their playblook? Would the opponent be on the "honor system" not to view that broadcast. Hell no, they willingly and knowingly gave away that information. If I play with my hand showing on the table for all to see its my own damn fault. Then I would blame my opponent for looking at my hand because I was an idiot and say they were cheating. Please.
Individual accountability plain and simple.
I should know better -- definitely an analogy as opposed to a metaphor. As for the rest...I do know better than to dive any deeper into this with you given the unrelated Ayn Rand talking point bingo you're all too excited to rant about. Suffice it to say, that ghosting can be unethical while not being cheating; very similar to angle shooting in that way. While you can protect yourself from those actions (and in most cases should), that doesn't in any way excuse the behavior of an opponent. Turns out Magic, like life, is a little more complex than black and white.
Why not dive deeper? Its what this world needs more of other than shallow thought. Why insult or insinuate with the "Ann Rand" nonsense? Was that called for? Should we debate with insult? I find invasion of privacy far more unethical than someone who knowingly broadcasts information and then is insulted when it is used against them. The same thing happens all the time. Women (and some men) will dress seductively/scantily because they want to get noticed and when someone notices them that they didn't want the attention from become offended. They broadcast that information out there, what were they to expect? Should they be assaulted or debased? Hell no. Should they get offended when a member of the opposite sex winks at them as they pass by? Personal accountability. If you send out a message you need to be prepared for the outcome.
Life is more complex as you say, I agree with you there. And as I've said, I'm more upset with the invasion of privacy aspect of live-streaming and non-consent of opponents than a wholly, totally and fully legal mode of exploitation in a game where it is in the best interest to acquire as much information legally to win. There is a lot of gray out there as you say. People need to understand that there is personal accountability and there are consequences for certain actions. Claiming victimhood for everything (justified or unjustified) is highly unethical to me. We have to agree to disagree and move on.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If you want a fun way to pick, take the rock/paper/scissors cards and shuffle them. Have your opponent pick their card, then have the opponent pick your card. Whoever wins goes first. Die rolls are so ingrained in tournament culture though, that you'll never be able to do that in a real event/
Hell, at the very least MtG could make an "official die roll" or random number generator so you don't have to worry about weighted dice or someone trying to drop dice on high numbers.
Oh, and on ghosting, hand blockers exist. Use them, always. I think ghosting is a scummy move, but this is Magic. Everyone trying to go pro or stay pro will look for advantages. Do not rely on others being upstanding citizens.
I think I'd rather them give the "draw" player an additional advantage to offset the tempo loss.
Similar to how Hearthstone provided a free extra mana to the player who went second.
If play/draw was equally desirable, it wouldn't matter so much who won the roll or not. As it currently stands, it really does matter too much in modern
If play/draw was equally desirable, it wouldn't matter so much who won the roll or not. As it currently stands, it really does matter too much in modern
This is very unlikely to be true, as the best Modern players have the same performance in Modern as the best Legacy players do in Legacy. This suggests either a) the die roll does not matter in Modern as much as people claim as skilled players can overcome it, and/or b) the die roll matters as much in Modern as it does in Legacy. If this mattered more in Modern than Legacy, we would see a corresponding performance drop among top players who lose random matchups to the die roll that they would not lose in another format. I guess it's also possible that c) top Modern players are good at cheating the die roll, but that also seems very unlikely.
If play/draw was equally desirable, it wouldn't matter so much who won the roll or not. As it currently stands, it really does matter too much in modern
This is very unlikely to be true, as the best Modern players have the same performance in Modern as the best Legacy players do in Legacy. This suggests either a) the die roll does not matter in Modern as much as people claim as skilled players can overcome it, and/or b) the die roll matters as much in Modern as it does in Legacy. If this mattered more in Modern than Legacy, we would see a corresponding performance drop among top players who lose random matchups to the die roll that they would not lose in another format. I guess it's also possible that c) top Modern players are good at cheating the die roll, but that also seems very unlikely.
I only use modern as an example because that is the format I am most familiar with and because this thread was posted under the modern forums. I think it also matters too much in standard, legacy, vintage, limited, and any other duel format. Although in the case of legacy, the presence of Force of Will might change this very slightly.
I do believe skilled players can certainly overcome this disparity, although never completely because even by the best players the disparity must be recognized as being true or else they would not always choose to play first (ignoring manaless dredge, 8 rack, and some lantern games).
I agree that cheating the die roll is unlikely. If the best modern players were ever to risk being caught doing this, their Magic careers would likely be over.
I agree that cheating the die roll is unlikely. If the best modern players were ever to risk being caught doing this, their Magic careers would likely be over.
Think again. There are players who have cheated in many different ways and been banned twice by the DCI. They still play this game to this day and have questionable play.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
If play/draw was equally desirable, it wouldn't matter so much who won the roll or not. As it currently stands, it really does matter too much in modern
This is very unlikely to be true, as the best Modern players have the same performance in Modern as the best Legacy players do in Legacy. This suggests either a) the die roll does not matter in Modern as much as people claim as skilled players can overcome it, and/or b) the die roll matters as much in Modern as it does in Legacy. If this mattered more in Modern than Legacy, we would see a corresponding performance drop among top players who lose random matchups to the die roll that they would not lose in another format. I guess it's also possible that c) top Modern players are good at cheating the die roll, but that also seems very unlikely.
I only use modern as an example because that is the format I am most familiar with and because this thread was posted under the modern forums. I think it also matters too much in standard, legacy, vintage, limited, and any other duel format. Although in the case of legacy, the presence of Force of Will might change this very slightly.
I do believe skilled players can certainly overcome this disparity, although never completely because even by the best players the disparity must be recognized as being true or else they would not always choose to play first (ignoring manaless dredge, 8 rack, and some lantern games).
I agree that cheating the die roll is unlikely. If the best modern players were ever to risk being caught doing this, their Magic careers would likely be over.
I fully agree that winning the die roll is too big of an advantage in Magic. I notice this a lot in the semi-Standard Arena format, where there are tons of matchups that are heavily favored to the player on the play. See most permutations of RDW/Dinos/Merfolk/Vampires/GW Tokens. I wish Wizards would make a major change like scry 1 for player on the draw to offset this.
If play/draw was equally desirable, it wouldn't matter so much who won the roll or not. As it currently stands, it really does matter too much in modern
This is very unlikely to be true, as the best Modern players have the same performance in Modern as the best Legacy players do in Legacy. This suggests either a) the die roll does not matter in Modern as much as people claim as skilled players can overcome it, and/or b) the die roll matters as much in Modern as it does in Legacy. If this mattered more in Modern than Legacy, we would see a corresponding performance drop among top players who lose random matchups to the die roll that they would not lose in another format. I guess it's also possible that c) top Modern players are good at cheating the die roll, but that also seems very unlikely.
I only use modern as an example because that is the format I am most familiar with and because this thread was posted under the modern forums. I think it also matters too much in standard, legacy, vintage, limited, and any other duel format. Although in the case of legacy, the presence of Force of Will might change this very slightly.
I do believe skilled players can certainly overcome this disparity, although never completely because even by the best players the disparity must be recognized as being true or else they would not always choose to play first (ignoring manaless dredge, 8 rack, and some lantern games).
I agree that cheating the die roll is unlikely. If the best modern players were ever to risk being caught doing this, their Magic careers would likely be over.
I fully agree that winning the die roll is too big of an advantage in Magic. I notice this a lot in the semi-Standard Arena format, where there are tons of matchups that are heavily favored to the player on the play. See most permutations of RDW/Dinos/Merfolk/Vampires/GW Tokens. I wish Wizards would make a major change like scry 1 for player on the draw to offset this.
Yeah I think its one of the major flaws in Magic that should be looked into
That's inherently common in randomization. Truly random numbers are very streaky, if they weren't, they would be in a pattern, and therefore not random. Hot and cold streaks are one indicator that things are happening as they should be.
That is fine, not everyone is though you need to understand. I believe in God and my savior Jesus Christ and I can offer no proof, so I know what you are talking about in a matter of speaking. If you want to know what bad luck is, how about 3 young school aged sisters that lost their father to drug use and their mother to drug use in the course of 1 year and a grandfather to alcohol in a car wreck that killed another father whom had 3 children and a wife a few years before that? It happened to my cousin and his ex-wife. That is bad "luck" for those poor girls. I'll take a 46% die roll win chance over the previous scenario. Perspective.
Your odds on your die rolls will improve over time, God/Karma/Buddha/Fate or whatever isn't conspiring to make you lose die rolls. Take comfort in that. Enjoy the game and have fun.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
For instance, if you won the play in round one and you're matched against someone who lost the play in round one, they should receive the play, and then subsequently determine based on this (e.g. if your play percentage is higher than your opponent's thus far, they receive the play).
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I'd actually like to see something more tangible like if you win the die roll and choose, your opponent gets to scry 1 or gets to draw an 8th card. It would be far easier to execute than following pre-generated tables or tracking who wins which rolls and when. But I agree with your overall sentiment.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Its not even a topic of debate for me, its not at all the same as letting your hand slip.
A stream sniper has to actively look for this information, it is not 'public' unless you say 'hmm I'm going to check if he's streaming so I can see his hand'.
I mean I struggle not to see this as a character issue, I cannot debate this topic.
Spirits
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Peace.
Spirits
Hopefully without sounding too condescending, I think you need to look up what the meaning of "public" is. If its on the internet it is public. Again it deals with personal accountability. Some people won't ever claim it is "their fault" always the victim. And yes it is obvious that you don't want to debate this so there is no point. We agree to disagree and move on. All I can hope is for you to keep a more open mind, I can see your character point, but will not agree it is cheating. I'm not supporting cheaters, I'm rallying against stupidity/naivete of streamers and standing for personal accountability. We have to part ways on this one.
An excellent point. Yet again I will say is it "fair" to an opponent that they are live-streamed or recorded without their knowledge or consent? I find that transgression far more egregious than a streamer who knowingly puts information out there and then pouts and gripes when it is used against them. In a private game a player should have reasonable expectation of privacy and not have it broadcast unless consent is given. Again I'm a big fan of personal account-ment and personal rights. If it isn't against the rules, its not cheating, plain and simple. I appreciate your thoughts.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I should know better -- definitely an analogy as opposed to a metaphor. As for the rest...I do know better than to dive any deeper into this with you given the unrelated Ayn Rand talking point bingo you're all too excited to rant about. Suffice it to say, that ghosting can be unethical while not being cheating; very similar to angle shooting in that way. While you can protect yourself from those actions (and in most cases should), that doesn't in any way excuse the behavior of an opponent. Turns out Magic, like life, is a little more complex than black and white.
Why not dive deeper? Its what this world needs more of other than shallow thought. Why insult or insinuate with the "Ann Rand" nonsense? Was that called for? Should we debate with insult? I find invasion of privacy far more unethical than someone who knowingly broadcasts information and then is insulted when it is used against them. The same thing happens all the time. Women (and some men) will dress seductively/scantily because they want to get noticed and when someone notices them that they didn't want the attention from become offended. They broadcast that information out there, what were they to expect? Should they be assaulted or debased? Hell no. Should they get offended when a member of the opposite sex winks at them as they pass by? Personal accountability. If you send out a message you need to be prepared for the outcome.
Life is more complex as you say, I agree with you there. And as I've said, I'm more upset with the invasion of privacy aspect of live-streaming and non-consent of opponents than a wholly, totally and fully legal mode of exploitation in a game where it is in the best interest to acquire as much information legally to win. There is a lot of gray out there as you say. People need to understand that there is personal accountability and there are consequences for certain actions. Claiming victimhood for everything (justified or unjustified) is highly unethical to me. We have to agree to disagree and move on.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Oh, and on ghosting, hand blockers exist. Use them, always. I think ghosting is a scummy move, but this is Magic. Everyone trying to go pro or stay pro will look for advantages. Do not rely on others being upstanding citizens.
Similar to how Hearthstone provided a free extra mana to the player who went second.
If play/draw was equally desirable, it wouldn't matter so much who won the roll or not. As it currently stands, it really does matter too much in modern
This is very unlikely to be true, as the best Modern players have the same performance in Modern as the best Legacy players do in Legacy. This suggests either a) the die roll does not matter in Modern as much as people claim as skilled players can overcome it, and/or b) the die roll matters as much in Modern as it does in Legacy. If this mattered more in Modern than Legacy, we would see a corresponding performance drop among top players who lose random matchups to the die roll that they would not lose in another format. I guess it's also possible that c) top Modern players are good at cheating the die roll, but that also seems very unlikely.
I only use modern as an example because that is the format I am most familiar with and because this thread was posted under the modern forums. I think it also matters too much in standard, legacy, vintage, limited, and any other duel format. Although in the case of legacy, the presence of Force of Will might change this very slightly.
I do believe skilled players can certainly overcome this disparity, although never completely because even by the best players the disparity must be recognized as being true or else they would not always choose to play first (ignoring manaless dredge, 8 rack, and some lantern games).
I agree that cheating the die roll is unlikely. If the best modern players were ever to risk being caught doing this, their Magic careers would likely be over.
Think again. There are players who have cheated in many different ways and been banned twice by the DCI. They still play this game to this day and have questionable play.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I fully agree that winning the die roll is too big of an advantage in Magic. I notice this a lot in the semi-Standard Arena format, where there are tons of matchups that are heavily favored to the player on the play. See most permutations of RDW/Dinos/Merfolk/Vampires/GW Tokens. I wish Wizards would make a major change like scry 1 for player on the draw to offset this.
Yeah I think its one of the major flaws in Magic that should be looked into
I started a thread addressing this issue here: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/791950-idea-give-the-draw-player-an-additional-benefit#c2