It should be noted too that any Karn future small Karn can pull a card exiled by his [the original small Karn's] +1 back to your hand since it doesn't have the [same way of naming itself as Karn Liberated's ultimate ability. ie:] wording of "[...] with Karn, Scion of Urza" [in his +1 ability]. Later in the game you actually have a large virtual hand of all the best cards which were exiled [with small Karn's +1 ability].
It's says with a silver counter on it, so only card exiled with him and only when you use is -1.
Only ''cheat'' here would be -1 play the exile card, play an other New Karn and -1
Yeah that's exactly what I said, although I had a typo of an extra "Karn" so I can see how it may have confused you. Edited for clarity.
I must say Karn and Dampening Sphere seems amazing but the one I really want to see if we can focus of is Mox Amber. It reads poorly but it's still a mox, there has got to be some way to abuse this card. Has anyone thought of anything at all?
There is probably something he can be used in that would be better now that that he exists. However, as mentioned above, artifacts have a ton of hate against them so it depends on what the deck wants to do and how susceptible to hate it ends up being. Is there something specific you already have in mind or card choices you are wanting to include?
Also, as an aside, I don't see the reason to start a thread asking for opinions on a specific card and then not putting that card or its text anywhere in the post. I get the idea of wanting to not spoil things for people, but put it into a Spoiler tag so anyone looking at the thread knows what the card does that you are asking about. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even bother to take the time to go looking for the new Karn before answering.
I believe Karn has serious synergy with Tireless Tracker and Thraben Inspector which provides incidentially Clue Tokens and therefore pumps up the construct token.
I have to be honest, I can't see a way of Mox Amber ever being worthwhile. If you want it to be consistently ramping you T1, then you need to be running 12+ 1-drop Legends to do that, and as none of the existing 1-drops see any play that seems bad.
In addition, when is spending 2 cards for a mana (Mox+legend) ever going to be better than BoP or Heirarch?
I have to be honest, I can't see a way of Mox Amber ever being worthwhile. If you want it to be consistently ramping you T1, then you need to be running 12+ 1-drop Legends to do that, and as none of the existing 1-drops see any play that seems bad.
In addition, when is spending 2 cards for a mana (Mox+legend) ever going to be better than BoP or Heirarch?
Unless we get some seriously awesome 1 cmc Legends, I don't see Mox Amber being particularly good in any shell.
The advantage a mid-range artifact deck has is that the options it get's access to are not completely dead to artifact hate. Stony Silence can't stop Pia Nalaar or similar cards from using their own abilities, or a big dumb beater like Metalwork Colossus from turning sideways. Shattering Spree and the like are still somewhat good against a mid-range deck, but yeah if I had to play an artifact deck in an anti-artifact meta, it would be more of that kind of an angle.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Then again I feel like Mox Amber is complicated but it's also good with planeswalker and it helps in activating Mox Opal but the length of work required to make it consistent is quite problematic since if they destroy your legendary or planeswalker, you pretty much get 2 for 1 since your Mox Amber is now offline.I think Mox Amber is nice addition and it's easier to activate than Mox Opal, which only see plays in affinity, surely a deck will take advantage of Mox Amber but it should not be overpowered.
With some Quick Math it's easy to understand how poorly this card is for Modern:
Turn 1 : Legendary Opp Turn 1: Bolt Legendary
Turn 2 : Useless Mox Amber in hand.
compared to
Turn 1 : Bird of Paradise Opp Turn 1: Bolt Bird
It's a 1 for 1, your hand is still fine.
Having to set up Mox Amber make it not really cost 0 and there is no real way to ramp faster with it.
The only way I could see Mox Amber being played it's if they ever release a 1 mana legendary dork which could lead to 4 Mana on turn 2, but we can already do it with Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl and it's not that good. Maybe affinity could potentially play it but I'm not an affinity expert.
I don't get how they can reprint a functional counterspell with a 5-8 lightning bolt but can't reprint a Wild Growth
Edit: Mox Amber is actually quite strong in Human with thalia.
As somebdoy who likes to make janky tribal decks in modern. I might be interested in seeing how Fungus tribal works out now that they have an additional lord and cheaper lifegain option. A B/G Fungus deck wouldn't really be that competitive, but it could be nice in longer-ish games depending on what other support is in the remaining cards.
There is some Thelon is pretty powerful and now with an additional lord in play, Thallid and Utopia Thallid could be pretty large on turn 3
I feel like Damping Sphere is quite overpowered, it can shut down nearly every single deck for the second effect is the one that is quite back breaking against most of the cast looking to play innexpensive spells, I feel like Legacy and Vintage will also get hit pretty hard by Damping Sphere.
While it was revealed to be true I hope Damping Sphere gets banned otherwise it will create a massive metashift, It destroy combo deck, destroy ramp deck and even hit deck like Zoo. Having a card being good against every axis can't be healthy and while the argument that everyone can run it, it's not Magic of the Damping Sphere.
I feel like Damping Sphere is quite overpowered, it can shut down nearly every single deck for the second effect is the one that is quite back breaking against most of the cast looking to play innexpensive spells, I feel like Legacy and Vintage will also get hit pretty hard by Damping Sphere.
While it was revealed to be true I hope Damping Sphere gets banned otherwise it will create a massive metashift, It destroy combo deck, destroy ramp deck and even hit deck like Zoo. Having a card being good against every axis can't be healthy and while the argument that everyone can run it, it's not Magic of the Damping Sphere.
Every deck will run at least 2 copy in sideboard.
I very much doubt its effect will be that drastic. I see it as another Grafdigger's Cage but one that simply hits different decks. Snapcaster decks and Dredge and Storm, etc., still exist even through Grafdigger's. If your argument is that Sphere + Cage would be a little too much for Storm specifically, then maybe. Otherwise the card should be a fine answer in the format for certain metagames or deck weaknesses.
if some deck that isnt lantern, death and taxes, or some other artifact-centric shell brings in sphere against me id just laugh in their face.
sweet. you slowed the game down. against a control deck.
its a good hate card, but its hardly the death knell of the format. there are like 5 competitive graveyard decks in the format filled with dozens of graveyard hate options. affinity has remained a tier 1 deck for like the last decade with an obscene amount of artifact hate available.
destroy zoo? what?
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Damping Sphere also hits affinity. The second ability on the card is just devastating because all those 0 cost cards are not 0 cost beyond the first anymore. No comboing Mox Opal like a lotus Petal, or slamming down multiple Memnite and Ornithopter. I have to admit it but WoTC printed one heck of a hate card this time.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
if some deck that isnt lantern, death and taxes, or some other artifact-centric shell brings in sphere against me id just laugh in their face.
sweet. you slowed the game down. against a control deck.
its a good hate card, but its hardly the death knell of the format. there are like 5 competitive graveyard decks in the format filled with dozens of graveyard hate options. affinity has remained a tier 1 deck for like the last decade with an obscene amount of artifact hate available.
destroy zoo? what?
Indeed, the only thing this does, is let a deck that could win on Turn 3, stop Tron from getting online, before one could realistically cast Moon.
As someone who built UR Moon (4 Moon, 4 Spreading Seas) and has STILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL lost to Tron because I couldnt find a threat before the impending O-Stone, All is Dust, G 'kill enchantment'...this is just a hate card folks, nothing more.
Damping Sphere also hits affinity. The second ability on the card is just devastating because all those 0 cost cards are not 0 cost beyond the first anymore. No comboing Mox Opal like a lotus Petal, or slamming down multiple Memnite and Ornithopter. I have to admit it but WoTC printed one heck of a hate card this time.
how would they be slamming multiple memnites and ornithopters after turn 1? what are they just holding them in hand for no reason?
the only way you can stop affinity from dumping their hand is turn 1 chalice on the play.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Damping Sphere also hits affinity. The second ability on the card is just devastating because all those 0 cost cards are not 0 cost beyond the first anymore. No comboing Mox Opal like a lotus Petal, or slamming down multiple Memnite and Ornithopter. I have to admit it but WoTC printed one heck of a hate card this time.
how would they be slamming multiple memnites and ornithopters after turn 1? what are they just holding them in hand for no reason?
the only way you can stop affinity from dumping their hand is turn 1 chalice on the play.
Ah, misread the cards casting cost. It's still really good at 2 and a heck of a lot more playable than Blood Sun.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I actually like the looks of Teferi, Hero of Dominaria as well. He may be 5 mana, but when he gets played you untap two lands and basically get a card back, so it lets someone keep up counter magic. He looks ages better than any 5 drop walker I've seen since maybe Tamiyo, the Moon sage?
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I actually like the looks of Teferi, Hero of Dominaria as well. He may be 5 mana, but when he gets played you untap two lands and basically get a card back, so it lets someone keep up counter magic. He looks ages better than any 5 drop walker I've seen since maybe Tamiyo, the Moon sage?
Teferi doesn't seem impactful enough to play. Just getting to 5 mana is a big ask, and U/W just plays Jace, the Mind Sculptor now I'd think.
I think Damping Sphere will kill off the G/x, U/x big mana versions of Tron. Now with everyone having go to 2 mana hate for Tron, relying on getting to tap lands for alot is bad. Eldrazi Tron can kinda of play through it, but the Sphere stops Eldrazi Temple too.
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MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Also, as an aside, I don't see the reason to start a thread asking for opinions on a specific card and then not putting that card or its text anywhere in the post. I get the idea of wanting to not spoil things for people, but put it into a Spoiler tag so anyone looking at the thread knows what the card does that you are asking about. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even bother to take the time to go looking for the new Karn before answering.
Green @ it's best
In addition, when is spending 2 cards for a mana (Mox+legend) ever going to be better than BoP or Heirarch?
Unless we get some seriously awesome 1 cmc Legends, I don't see Mox Amber being particularly good in any shell.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Then again I feel like Mox Amber is complicated but it's also good with planeswalker and it helps in activating Mox Opal but the length of work required to make it consistent is quite problematic since if they destroy your legendary or planeswalker, you pretty much get 2 for 1 since your Mox Amber is now offline.I think Mox Amber is nice addition and it's easier to activate than Mox Opal, which only see plays in affinity, surely a deck will take advantage of Mox Amber but it should not be overpowered.
With some Quick Math it's easy to understand how poorly this card is for Modern:
Turn 1 : Legendary Opp Turn 1: Bolt Legendary
Turn 2 : Useless Mox Amber in hand.
compared to
Turn 1 : Bird of Paradise Opp Turn 1: Bolt Bird
It's a 1 for 1, your hand is still fine.
Having to set up Mox Amber make it not really cost 0 and there is no real way to ramp faster with it.
The only way I could see Mox Amber being played it's if they ever release a 1 mana legendary dork which could lead to 4 Mana on turn 2, but we can already do it with Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl and it's not that good. Maybe affinity could potentially play it but I'm not an affinity expert.
I don't get how they can reprint a functional counterspell with a 5-8 lightning bolt but can't reprint a Wild Growth
Edit: Mox Amber is actually quite strong in Human with thalia.
opal is easily one of the most powerful cards in the format. amber...not so much
i expect it to be super popular for commander though, so demand will be high
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)There is some Thelon is pretty powerful and now with an additional lord in play, Thallid and Utopia Thallid could be pretty large on turn 3
While it was revealed to be true I hope Damping Sphere gets banned otherwise it will create a massive metashift, It destroy combo deck, destroy ramp deck and even hit deck like Zoo. Having a card being good against every axis can't be healthy and while the argument that everyone can run it, it's not Magic of the Damping Sphere.
Every deck will run at least 2 copy in sideboard.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
sweet. you slowed the game down. against a control deck.
its a good hate card, but its hardly the death knell of the format. there are like 5 competitive graveyard decks in the format filled with dozens of graveyard hate options. affinity has remained a tier 1 deck for like the last decade with an obscene amount of artifact hate available.
destroy zoo? what?
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
-T. Death&Taxes Player
Indeed, the only thing this does, is let a deck that could win on Turn 3, stop Tron from getting online, before one could realistically cast Moon.
As someone who built UR Moon (4 Moon, 4 Spreading Seas) and has STILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL lost to Tron because I couldnt find a threat before the impending O-Stone, All is Dust, G 'kill enchantment'...this is just a hate card folks, nothing more.
Spirits
how would they be slamming multiple memnites and ornithopters after turn 1? what are they just holding them in hand for no reason?
the only way you can stop affinity from dumping their hand is turn 1 chalice on the play.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Ah, misread the cards casting cost. It's still really good at 2 and a heck of a lot more playable than Blood Sun.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
Teferi doesn't seem impactful enough to play. Just getting to 5 mana is a big ask, and U/W just plays Jace, the Mind Sculptor now I'd think.