I guess I could have brought that up, but it seems somewhat obvious to me. I doubt they are going to print any equipment close to the Swords or Batterskull ever again. Umezawa's Jitte, Cranial Plating, or Skullclamp? No, at least 2 of those were mistakes. I mean, there may be something like Cranial Plating in a format where only 2 other artifacts are playable. That's called WotC humor.
Wizards has surprised me before, but I think we're more likely to see an extremely PUSHED creature than anything else. Something that makes everyone say, WOOOW, they printed that?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I guess I could have brought that up, but it seems somewhat obvious to me. I doubt they are going to print any equipment close to the Swords or Batterskull ever again. Umezawa's Jitte, Cranial Plating, or Skullclamp? No, at least 2 of those were mistakes. I mean, there may be something like Cranial Plating in a format where only 2 other artifacts are playable. That's called WotC humor.
Wizards has surprised me before, but I think we're more likely to see an extremely PUSHED creature than anything else. Something that makes everyone say, WOOOW, they printed that?
WotC even admits Batterskull was way too pushed, and that even the Swords are fare more powerful than any equipment they'll print in the future. And their track record on the subject backs it up.
If you are playing a non combo U deck, you run Jace, any GR deck, you run BBE. If SFM becomes legal, then if you are playing W, then you play her. That's the issue we are talking about.
I'm being facetious when it comes to Jace, but I think that BBE is actually and seriously a more dangerous subject. Jace is fine, and if you play a slower blue deck, then yeah you run him, but he isn't the cornerstone of the deck, usually running 2-3 max.
BBE on the other hand, well, if you run RG, then you play 4 BBE and almost always cast her with 4 mana available without thinking. Yeah, you can say decks like Ponza and Jund have been propelled to the higher tiers that wasn't there before and make erroneous claims that the format hasn't been as diverse. Diversity is not the the only criterion we need to evaluate unbans with, and on top of that, diversity doesn't equal health or fun factor.
Thats why GSZ and possibly SFM shouldn't be unbanned. I'd be fine with a SFM unban to test out, but with BBE already warping GR decks, why not unban SFM, its kinda too late now anyways
See that's fair, but as long as decks are doing different things, I do not mind personally if cards are found in multiple decks.
Admittedly though I could be biased on this as I have not played something seriously without 4 of my boy Snap's, in a long long long time, across any number of decks.
I'm not sure if I agree though. So you are playing W, and you add SFM, what are you adding? A singleton Sword/Batterskull? Why?
If you're a white based midrange deck you're gonna play stoneforge, and if you're a green based midrange deck you're gonna play goyf. That's fine with me; right now if you're a white based midrange deck you get wrecked by every other midrange deck because your finisher is flickerwisp.
If you are playing a non combo U deck, you run Jace, any GR deck, you run BBE. If SFM becomes legal, then if you are playing W, then you play her. That's the issue we are talking about.
I'm being facetious when it comes to Jace, but I think that BBE is actually and seriously a more dangerous subject. Jace is fine, and if you play a slower blue deck, then yeah you run him, but he isn't the cornerstone of the deck, usually running 2-3 max.
BBE on the other hand, well, if you run RG, then you play 4 BBE and almost always cast her with 4 mana available without thinking. Yeah, you can say decks like Ponza and Jund have been propelled to the higher tiers that wasn't there before and make erroneous claims that the format hasn't been as diverse. Diversity is not the the only criterion we need to evaluate unbans with, and on top of that, diversity doesn't equal health or fun factor.
Thats why GSZ and possibly SFM shouldn't be unbanned. I'd be fine with a SFM unban to test out, but with BBE already warping GR decks, why not unban SFM, its kinda too late now anyways
I don't really think that's a good enough reason to have a card on the banned list, though. If you're playing a standard Black list, you run Push and IoK/TS. If you're running a standard Blue list, you run cantrips and Snapcaster. If you're running a colorless list, you run Stirrings. If you're running a standard Green list, you run Goyf. The format has a number of staples that prop up their archetypes, and that's fine.
(Of course plenty of decks don't run those cards because they don't fit the game plan. But that would be the same case with SFM, so it's a moot point.)
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
If you are playing a non combo U deck, you run Jace, any GR deck, you run BBE. If SFM becomes legal, then if you are playing W, then you play her. That's the issue we are talking about.
I'm being facetious when it comes to Jace, but I think that BBE is actually and seriously a more dangerous subject. Jace is fine, and if you play a slower blue deck, then yeah you run him, but he isn't the cornerstone of the deck, usually running 2-3 max.
BBE on the other hand, well, if you run RG, then you play 4 BBE and almost always cast her with 4 mana available without thinking. Yeah, you can say decks like Ponza and Jund have been propelled to the higher tiers that wasn't there before and make erroneous claims that the format hasn't been as diverse. Diversity is not the the only criterion we need to evaluate unbans with, and on top of that, diversity doesn't equal health or fun factor.
Thats why GSZ and possibly SFM shouldn't be unbanned. I'd be fine with a SFM unban to test out, but with BBE already warping GR decks, why not unban SFM, its kinda too late now anyways
I don't really think that's a good enough reason to have a card on the banned list, though. If you're playing a standard Black list, you run Push and IoK/TS. If you're running a standard Blue list, you run cantrips and Snapcaster. If you're running a colorless list, you run Stirrings. If you're running a standard Green list, you run Goyf. The format has a number of staples that prop up their archetypes, and that's fine.
(Of course plenty of decks don't run those cards because they don't fit the game plan. But that would be the same case with SFM, so it's a moot point.)
You're probably right tbh, its the point of an eternal format to play all the cards after all. BBE just makes these decks so much less interesting, the card is horribly deigned T_T
I don't even like playing Ponza anymore. Seems to literally rely on how good my BBEs are or not.
Further to this line of discussion, if a hypothetical 'this card makes White based Midrange a thing' were to be printed, maybe in Dominaria for example, then doesnt that do the same thing as unbanning SFM? All White based decks on a midrange plan would run it, because currently there isnt anything good enough.
White Planeswalkers and Lingering Souls seem like superb midrange finishers to me. Guess I missed the memo where they stopped being good?
White's issue is that linear combo decks answer Thalia or a Leyline, the crush them because they have no threats that start early.
SFM might(?) fix this issue, but I feel like it brings more problems than it's worth.
Can you find a successful midrange deck finishing with white planeswalkers?
Lingering souls junk is basically nonexistent with BBE out, and when it existed it was a black based deck.
The closest thing to what you're talking about is BW tokens, which has never been very good.
SFM would turn D&T from a fringe deck with minimal actual success into a tier 1 midrange deck, and would also likely revive Abzan as a deck. Those both seem like fine things to me.
What bad things do you think are going to happen exactly?
Further to this line of discussion, if a hypothetical 'this card makes White based Midrange a thing' were to be printed, maybe in Dominaria for example, then doesnt that do the same thing as unbanning SFM? All White based decks on a midrange plan would run it, because currently there isnt anything good enough.
White Planeswalkers and Lingering Souls seem like superb midrange finishers to me. Guess I missed the memo where they stopped being good?
White's issue is that linear combo decks answer Thalia or a Leyline, the crush them because they have no threats that start early.
SFM might(?) fix this issue, but I feel like it brings more problems than it's worth.
Can you find a successful midrange deck finishing with white planeswalkers?
Lingering souls junk is basically nonexistent with BBE out, and when it existed it was a black based deck.
The closest thing to what you're talking about is BW tokens, which has never been very good.
SFM would turn D&T from a fringe deck with minimal actual success into a tier 1 midrange deck, and would also likely revive Abzan as a deck. Those both seem like fine things to me.
What bad things do you think are going to happen exactly?
Fair point on Planeswalkers, though IMO people underestimate Gideon, Ally of Zendikar as well as Elspeth, 6-drop Man-Machine. Also fair point on Junk, though I don't think it's bad; just less popular right now. I feel like an early threat worth playing in Modern (rather than Thraben Inspector) that you could back up WITH Lingering Souls and Path/Push backup would make White a far more powerful color.
My friends who play DnT say the deck would change entirely. You'd cut Cat Jesus out for SFM, which would alter the makeup of the deck by a lot. Abzan would obviously include an SFM package.
And that's where I start seeing a problem. Those decks might just become Tier 1 mid-range monsters...which would eat up all the nice Tribal decks keeping Linear Combo in check, possibly even eating up Burn, as well. Then Linear Combo pushes back, and White has very little to stop them, because a 4-mana do-nothing 4/4 Lifelinker doesn't stop Ad Naus, Storm, Titanshift, etc. Despite the coming of Dominaria and the Anti-Tron Sphere, aggressive decks also keep Tron on the back-foot, and losing them might give it an opening, as well.
Those are just things I don't want to see in the meta. I play a good amount of Linear Combo, but I don't want to see it dominate. I like seeing lots of Tribal decks pushing back against it, as well as beating up Tron.
Cos if you give us an inch we'll take a mile; I'm ready for Stoneforge and GSZ to be freed already.
Thank you! I'm on board with this...Choo! Choo!
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I still don't get why this thread isn't a Ghost Town already.
You just had a Grand Prix with many UR Tempo/Control/Combo lists, UW Control lists, Jund, other interactive decks, diversity and all.
Modern is close to becoming a 10/10 format(I would easily rate it as 9/10 at the moment). The latter is the reason I haven't posted in a month and I don't intend on writing again in such pace.
Combo, Control, Tempo, Midrange, Ramp, toolbox, land destruction, tribal decks, Aggro, all near to equal represented.
Those two unbans were the best thing that could happen to Modern.
Probably because this thread should never have been 'complain about Modern'. Its the State of Modern, Good (as it is now) or bad (as it was with Eldrazi/Tron at the top).
What tribal decks? SFM doesnt stop humans. Burn goes from RW back to RWg and thanks you for putting an artifact on the field.
How does it not stop Humans? With a single Path backup to take out whatever Lord effect they're using (or a giant Champ), Batterskull would eat through Humans faster than Mantis Rider could fight back. Nothing on the ground would beat it, I don't think. They'd need to Freebooter either SFM or the Batterskull away, wouldn't they?
Elves and Merfolk would be much easier to fight if you could Path important targets, and then also fight their hordes with a 4/4 Vigilance Lifelinker. Not saying this is all forgone conclusions, just that if win% are heavily damaged, it could lead to the scenario I was describing.
I still don't get why this thread isn't a Ghost Town already.
You just had a Grand Prix with many UR Tempo/Control/Combo lists, UW Control lists, Jund, other interactive decks, diversity and all.
Modern is close to becoming a 10/10 format(I would easily rate it as 9/10 at the moment). The latter is the reason I haven't posted in a month and I don't intend on writing again in such pace.
Combo, Control, Tempo, Midrange, Ramp, toolbox, land destruction, tribal decks, Aggro, all near to equal represented.
Those two unbans were the best thing that could happen to Modern.
Most people here are very happy with the format (as am I).
However, diversity doesn't necessarily mean good gameplay. That is only one criterion of many
I still don't get why this thread isn't a Ghost Town already.
You just had a Grand Prix with many UR Tempo/Control/Combo lists, UW Control lists, Jund, other interactive decks, diversity and all.
Modern is close to becoming a 10/10 format(I would easily rate it as 9/10 at the moment). The latter is the reason I haven't posted in a month and I don't intend on writing again in such pace.
Combo, Control, Tempo, Midrange, Ramp, toolbox, land destruction, tribal decks, Aggro, all near to equal represented.
Those two unbans were the best thing that could happen to Modern.
Most people here are very happy with the format (as am I).
However, diversity doesn't necessarily mean good gameplay. That is only one criterion of many
There's only so much we can do for gameplay, its hard to have stack war's when the finisher costs 5 mana, instead of 3 on an End Step.
On a side-note, why did Sowing Salt never see more play? What with both Tron and Eldrazi tron surpassing GDS for a bit, I would have thought more red midrange would pick it up, especially Jund as it started on the uptick? Is it just too slow or what?
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Modern UWUW ControlUW UGWSpiritsUGW GHardened ScalesG WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Wizards has surprised me before, but I think we're more likely to see an extremely PUSHED creature than anything else. Something that makes everyone say, WOOOW, they printed that?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)WotC even admits Batterskull was way too pushed, and that even the Swords are fare more powerful than any equipment they'll print in the future. And their track record on the subject backs it up.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
I'm being facetious when it comes to Jace, but I think that BBE is actually and seriously a more dangerous subject. Jace is fine, and if you play a slower blue deck, then yeah you run him, but he isn't the cornerstone of the deck, usually running 2-3 max.
BBE on the other hand, well, if you run RG, then you play 4 BBE and almost always cast her with 4 mana available without thinking. Yeah, you can say decks like Ponza and Jund have been propelled to the higher tiers that wasn't there before and make erroneous claims that the format hasn't been as diverse. Diversity is not the the only criterion we need to evaluate unbans with, and on top of that, diversity doesn't equal health or fun factor.
Thats why GSZ and possibly SFM shouldn't be unbanned. I'd be fine with a SFM unban to test out, but with BBE already warping GR decks, why not unban SFM, its kinda too late now anyways
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Admittedly though I could be biased on this as I have not played something seriously without 4 of my boy Snap's, in a long long long time, across any number of decks.
I'm not sure if I agree though. So you are playing W, and you add SFM, what are you adding? A singleton Sword/Batterskull? Why?
Spirits
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I don't really think that's a good enough reason to have a card on the banned list, though. If you're playing a standard Black list, you run Push and IoK/TS. If you're running a standard Blue list, you run cantrips and Snapcaster. If you're running a colorless list, you run Stirrings. If you're running a standard Green list, you run Goyf. The format has a number of staples that prop up their archetypes, and that's fine.
(Of course plenty of decks don't run those cards because they don't fit the game plan. But that would be the same case with SFM, so it's a moot point.)
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
White's issue is that linear combo decks answer Thalia or a Leyline, the crush them because they have no threats that start early.
SFM might(?) fix this issue, but I feel like it brings more problems than it's worth.
You're probably right tbh, its the point of an eternal format to play all the cards after all. BBE just makes these decks so much less interesting, the card is horribly deigned T_T
I don't even like playing Ponza anymore. Seems to literally rely on how good my BBEs are or not.
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
EDIT: And as a final thought on this, how is that card not already Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Spirits
Can you find a successful midrange deck finishing with white planeswalkers?
Lingering souls junk is basically nonexistent with BBE out, and when it existed it was a black based deck.
The closest thing to what you're talking about is BW tokens, which has never been very good.
SFM would turn D&T from a fringe deck with minimal actual success into a tier 1 midrange deck, and would also likely revive Abzan as a deck. Those both seem like fine things to me.
What bad things do you think are going to happen exactly?
Think more like Goyf or Snapcaster level of power, not Garruk Wildspeaker level of power.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
And do we really want a Thalia deck, DnT, in Tier 1? Bolts just want to be 1 mana, why would we fight that.
Spirits
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Fair point on Planeswalkers, though IMO people underestimate Gideon, Ally of Zendikar as well as Elspeth, 6-drop Man-Machine. Also fair point on Junk, though I don't think it's bad; just less popular right now. I feel like an early threat worth playing in Modern (rather than Thraben Inspector) that you could back up WITH Lingering Souls and Path/Push backup would make White a far more powerful color.
My friends who play DnT say the deck would change entirely. You'd cut Cat Jesus out for SFM, which would alter the makeup of the deck by a lot. Abzan would obviously include an SFM package.
And that's where I start seeing a problem. Those decks might just become Tier 1 mid-range monsters...which would eat up all the nice Tribal decks keeping Linear Combo in check, possibly even eating up Burn, as well. Then Linear Combo pushes back, and White has very little to stop them, because a 4-mana do-nothing 4/4 Lifelinker doesn't stop Ad Naus, Storm, Titanshift, etc. Despite the coming of Dominaria and the Anti-Tron Sphere, aggressive decks also keep Tron on the back-foot, and losing them might give it an opening, as well.
Those are just things I don't want to see in the meta. I play a good amount of Linear Combo, but I don't want to see it dominate. I like seeing lots of Tribal decks pushing back against it, as well as beating up Tron.
Thank you! I'm on board with this...Choo! Choo!
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Spirits
Probably because this thread should never have been 'complain about Modern'. Its the State of Modern, Good (as it is now) or bad (as it was with Eldrazi/Tron at the top).
Spirits
How does it not stop Humans? With a single Path backup to take out whatever Lord effect they're using (or a giant Champ), Batterskull would eat through Humans faster than Mantis Rider could fight back. Nothing on the ground would beat it, I don't think. They'd need to Freebooter either SFM or the Batterskull away, wouldn't they?
Elves and Merfolk would be much easier to fight if you could Path important targets, and then also fight their hordes with a 4/4 Vigilance Lifelinker. Not saying this is all forgone conclusions, just that if win% are heavily damaged, it could lead to the scenario I was describing.
I also dont shed tears for linear decks abusing Rainbow Lands and Tribal synergy to just faceroll games, so they have to interact? Sad times. :]
What you are describing, is a good thing to me. A natural predator against a game plan that is saying 'i dont care what you do'.
Though humans are plenty disruptive, I wouldnt say it would wipe them out.
Spirits
Most people here are very happy with the format (as am I).
However, diversity doesn't necessarily mean good gameplay. That is only one criterion of many
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
There's only so much we can do for gameplay, its hard to have stack war's when the finisher costs 5 mana, instead of 3 on an End Step.
Spirits
I cannot wait to watch people get their batterskulls v-cliqued and kitesail freebootered. That's gonna be hilarious. Nice Squire you got there fam.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]